21/04/2013 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland

And here in Northern Ireland: With the union flag issue refusing

to go away, the Alliance MP Naomi Long explains her party's

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2093 seconds

opposition to flying the flag at Hello, and welcome to the Sunday

Politics in Northern Ireland. It's an issue that won't go away -

the flying of the union flag in Belfast, with the focus now moving

to the Cenotaph. The Alliance Party MP Naomi Long

outlines her party's position. Also the yearly scramble for

nursery and primary school places. Why can't the authorities get the

numbers right? And with their thoughts, journalists Alex Kane and

Suzanne Breen. On Friday an attempt by the DUP to

have the Union flag flown every day from the Cenotaph at City Hall

failed and the Alliance Party is refusing to back the bid at a key

council committee. The party cited equality implications and

opposition from the Royal British Legion. But the issue has taken

another turn, with efforts to increase the number of days the

Union flag can be flown over City Hall itself back on the agenda. To

discuss the issue I'm joined by Naomi Long, the Alliance MP for

east Belfast. The flag's flying today to mark the

Queen's birthday. Why did Alliance vote against flying the flag every

day at the Cenotaph? Well, in terms of the Cenotaph, the

proposal came forward on the same evening that the decision was being

taken in respect to the flag flying on City Hall. It was lobbed into

the debate by the way of a grenade as a result of wider discussion

that had taken part earlier than that. About. We were said we were

willing to listen and we were willing to listen to the arguments

for and against an we would reach a judgment and that is what we have

done. The most compelling voice for me in that was the voice of the

Royal British Legion who made it very clear that as the national

body who are the custodians of remembrance they believe that the

current moves and the manner in which the issue had been raised in

City Hall risk politicising remembrance in a way that was

unhelpful and we have to take cognisance of that because we don't

want to exploit our war dead. They should be respected. It is

important that we put the situation to bed quickly. Is one of the

difficulties for your party that it looks not to have a settled opinion

on this. It looks to some people from the outside that the party has

changed tack on a number of occasions. Maura Hendron said at

the time that the original decision was taken that she would have no

difficulty with a flying over the Cenotaph every day but there has

been or change of ideas. No, there hasn't. She said she would have no

problem with it but it would have to be subject to a quality

assessment and we would have to take a reading from the community

and when we did that it was clear that it was not a good idea. She

had no personal animosity to the idea but she was willing to listen.

There is a problem that if you are willing to listen you are seen to

not take a position and then if you take a position you are told you

are not making decisions. It now looks as though the centre half has

gone away, is that your understanding? What the Unionists

seem to be suggesting is that the number of days on which the flag

could fly over City Hall could be examined and increased. They have

put forward suggestions of perhaps commemorations of the Battle of the

Somme or the Battle of Messines or maybe Ulster Day. That would mean

more days but not every day, would that be a compromise? There is a

difficulty with all of that because we don't know if the Cenotaph has

gone away and we don't know if people will pursue it. But it would

need your support. It would, and that means it would not happen but

that does not mean it has gone away. People already know hour position

on City Hall but a already bringing forward additional days as options.

That was our second most favoured option, not the first. The first

was designated days only. Our position is already clear and it

will not stop people bringing further proposals because I think

there is a will in City Hall for some people to keep the pot boiling

on the flags issued by what we want to see his clarity on how they are

flown, not just at City Hall but at every council across Northern

Ireland. This is crucial because in the next few years we will see a

reorganisation of councils and 11 new councils and each of them, if

we don't get an agreed position as part of the review of public

administration will waste a year or two years bickering over when the

flag should fly and what flag should fly at how we should slide.

Let us get a result that a political level so we take it out

of the equation and we have a settled decision. I personally

believe that should be designated days at every council across

Northern Ireland. He just to broaden the conversation for a

moment. You are the MP for East Belfast. There was this historical

UVF parade as those organising it build it. There were as many as

10,000 people taking part and they say it was a history pageant. Are

you satisfied that it went off as well as it could have done? I am

satisfied that he went off largely without incident and that is to be

welcomed. I am also pleased that those who organised the parade went

through the normal procedures of applying to the Parades Commission

in order to do with. That is how orderly parades should be organised

within the structure of Northern Ireland. There are issues arising

from the parade, not necessarily with the parade itself but in terms

of how residents are consulted around those issues because many

residents were not so Ray -- aware parade would go through the

neighbourhood until last weekend until the flags were being put up

on the lamp-posts. We need to look at those issues and start to

address those. Five do you want to see the flags taken down as quickly

they were taking up? Obviously that is what I want to see because I

don't believe there is a place for that kind of public display.

Particularly when they are imposed on the communities with no public

consultation and not listening to the sensitivities of the people

within the community. The pattern has been when they go up they go up

quickly and when they come down it is because the weather takes it

Tylenol because somebody responsibly takes them down. Winnie

proposals on how to deal with flags because the current situation is

not sustainable. Were you concerned about the speeches that took place

at the end of the parade? Journalists were prevented from

witnessing what was said. I don't think anybody expected that to

happen. Did that concern you? seemed particularly strange, given

that the purpose of the parade, according to the organisers, was to

commemorate the people who formed the UDF and then went on to fight

at the Battle of the Somme and preserve people's right to freedom

of speech and an open and Alan Quinn society. It seems rather

ironic that they would inhibit journalists from recording what was

happening at the event. It was said to be an inclusive and open event

and they did not on the media to cover that. I can understand that

and they need to give an explanation for that themselves.

we will leave that there now. Let's hear from my other guests,

the journalists Suzanne Breen and Alex Kane. I was surprised that the

journalists were not allowed to cover that because recently they

have been complaining that the BBC is distorting all of their messages

and so you would have thought and a big celebration like this they

would allow the speakers to be questioned. Ice asked yesterday why

it they did that and they told me they were toughening up and showing

to the media that they could not be their puppets. This is

extraordinary. You cannot blame the media and then refused to co-

operate with them. The loyalist policy of dealing with the media

has been atrocious compared to nationalists and republicans. They

constantly complain of censorship and then they deny freedom of

speech and turn journalists away and banned journalists. It is are

unacceptable and on called for. did not understand it, unless there

is something that they eat was saying that they did not want to be

reported. I don't get that impression at all. I suspect, and

this is my cynicism, I suspect they may have expected some mistakes

there maybe if they thought there was going to be heckling they might

say something unscripted but it looked the other way round, a look

to have though they would try to stop people hearing anything they

were saying. The issue of the flax is not resolved as far as Belfast

City Hall is resolved but are we inching towards some sort of

resolution, not the Cenotaph but maybe a proposal to an increased

list of designated days. The amount of time spent on this has been

absolutely ridiculous and the wasted resources in terms of

parades and Policing and the trouble that has been caused.

People really, really need to grow up. A decision has been taken by

the council and there should be a. Personally, given the recession a

people losing their jobs and people are struggling on low income I

don't care if the Union Flag, the tricolour or the skull and

crossbones flies at City Hall, and that is the situation for so many

people. That is not a major issue in our society but it has been

politically manipulated by the DUP because they want to oust Naomi

Long from her feet and also by Sinn Fein who are calling this a victory

to hide the fact that Sinn Fein have accepted partition and the DUP

has its own reasons for wanting it on the streets because it wants to

proper pace did against the Alliance Party. I think Suzanne is

substantially right. What strikes me about all of this is that

usually the DUP is pretty canny in the territory it chooses to fight

and fight it chooses to have. Back to last August with the Parades

Commission stuff and the Alliance stuff in September and the thing

about the corporals a few weeks ago and now the Cenotaph. On every

issue they seem to be getting it wrong in approach and a tactics.

They are going into battle that they must know they cannot win. I

don't understand why they are doing. Yes they thought it might damage

the Alliance Party a few months ago but now they have done so much

collateral damage to themselves and the UUP is out of the equation any

damage to be done to alliance has been lessened. Interesting to get

your thoughts on that, Naomi. We have had discussions about it

before. You would say it is absolutely about you being targeted

for political reasons in east Belfast but do you agree that the

tide has now turned and the wind is now in your back? I agree with Alex

and Cezanne on the fact that most people are thoroughly sickened with

it the whole debate and want an end. We are not continuing to bring new

proposals to the table, we want it to be put to bed for once and for

all. That is one of the reasons why these proposals for additional days,

we know there is a list of additional days that people are

looking at that could carry us through one a month until the next

elections. We are concerned about will simply keep the window open.

We need to find ways of respecting emblems and singles and flags and

doing it in a way that does not cause upheaval. That is not a war

of attrition at City Hall. If people have serious proposes an

additional days they should be included, take them to the

Department of Culture and, Media and Sport, who decide on designated

days and let them do that as they do for every other designated date

but it should not be fought out on the floor of city council. People

should be focusing on what is good for the City as a whole, for

business and all the people who live in the City, this constant

warmth lacks is not good for the City, not good for the city centre,

not good for businesses across the city and not good for local

communities. Thank you very much for joining us. We will hear more

from Suzanne and Alex later in the programme.

According to the Education Minister we've too many empty desks in our

primary schools, but try telling that to the dozens of parents who

found out this week there's no place for their children in their

preferred primary schools. And it's not just primary places. Every year

we hear about nursery or pre-school units being over-subscribed. While

the situation has improved in recent years, why is it so

difficult to plan for primary and nursery provision? We'll hear from

Danny Kinahan, deputy chair of the Education Committee, and Joanne

Browne, principal of St Ita's Primary School in south Belfast, in

just a moment. But first the thoughts of some parents in south

Belfast. I am a working parent, so for me a

place is very important. If the criteria has led by parents who

don't work, then that would be a concern. They think you should be

prioritised for people who are out working. For there are a lot of

shortages, particularly in pre- school and nursery placements and I

have not seen any evidence of many changes to deal with increasing

population or additional places be needed and I have not seen any

extra nurseries opened, other than private nurseries, which cost a

fortune. We have another couple of years until the two of them are in

schools so it is something I will meet other look at but I don't

really know how the schooling system works. I need to go away and

work out what is the best thing for the two of them. We are being told

by friends and family that it will be very difficult because my

daughter and her husband work full- time and there is a lack of places

generally anyway. I cannot register where I live, it is much more

difficult now to get your child into a pre-school place or a

nursery or playgroup than it was 25 years ago. Danny Kinahan and Joanne

Browne are with me now. Why does this continue to be such a problem?

I think the department and the minister do not bother to sit down

on lookout the short-term plans that are needed each year. It is

better this year in certain areas but we are constantly looking at

long-term strategies rather than looking at the grand to see where

parents want to send the children, almost like marketing, looking at

whether places are needed are trying to fit to it. We have area

planning going on that frightens everyone else at the top but down,

local issues, no one seems to be planning. It is enormously

difficult to get it right because you have to plan a number of years

in advance. The minister is dealing with many schools where, actually,

the role is falling so he has excess capacity but in some pockets

he has under capacity so it is quite a difficult trip for any one

tooth Wolof. It is far he has got to have people on the ground and

the boards are being run down so no one is contemplating whether a

school needs 20 places next year or five. It has got better but we have

got to find a way of helping the working families as well. At the

moment there is a bias against them. Because parents on benefits trump

working parents? Yes, and quite rightly, but at the same time if we

were to look at a certain level below which we had to help working

parents then that would be important as well. You have had to

turn parents away from the school and that is not what you want to be

doing? Absolutely not. In the last couple of weeks parents have been

very upset. On the 10th letters were issued for nursery places and

parents were disappointed that they did not receive a place in our

nursery unit. On top of that, they can accept the nursery school, but

what they are afraid of is December -- SEP- 2014, what happens them? We

have had the primary letters issued and many parents have also been

disappointed and they may not even have got into the second, third or

4th choice and they may have to consider going to a different

sector away from home and they are very upset and we empathise with

them. Where does the problem lie? Is it with the Minister or the

boards or area planning laws core principles? If no. Not the

principles! It is everybody else's fault for! We are doing our best.

We have supported Our applications for additional places and

thankfully we have got extra places. This has been three years coming.

First of all we applied for minor works and it did not materialise

and again last year. Ideally you have to have the children there

before you get, before it makes sense to have a developmental

proposal. You are a good school in an area of high demand and you have

a catchment area where the numbers are going up and knock down. But

the minister has to balance that with a very different picture, the

absolute opposite in many parts of the country. Absolutely. Not every

parish or community is oversubscribed. There are pockets

that need to be addressed. I think it is difficult for parents. They

have to actually move out of that but the reality is that schools

have a maximum capacity and we cannot take everybody. As much as I

would want to take everybody our school is a restricted by our side.

He will be Education & Skills Authority be part of the solution

when it is up and running? If it is up and running. We wanted to place

in a different form and it is. It could do it and again we are going

up to higher level. We need something at a lower level, whether

it is board-level local groups that can actually deal with what is

happening on the ground and look at the numbers from year to year

instead of five-year plans or ten- year plans or even longer. So what

is the optimum time scale, do you think, that those responsible for

planning need to think about because you have year on year, as

Joe and has said and you have just spoken about 10 years. It is a

conjuring trick, the like of which I think we are all agreed that we

are not being asked to pull off. absolutely but you have to have a

system in place that is looking at the parents that are coming and in

each counsellor at birth rates and other things to go by, there must

be ways of doing it. Do you accept that their situation is getting

better every year? Is that if that was my aim now particular area it

is not. We have done a lot of surveys... That is another thing

you're going against the trend on! There is a lot of rapid growth and

new developments in our area. We analyse baptismal register so we

are prepared for the next few years and we know that the figures are

rising so we know what will happen in the next two years and it is

frightening in our particular area. Again with area planning and the

board working together on area planning then it is good because

they will put sustainable measures in place and it will happen at the

time but there is an emergency now to get children sorted for

September and September next year and it has to be addressed fairly

urgently. It will be interesting to see how it pans out. A lot of

disappointed people in the past, that is for sure. Thank you very

much. Now, let's take a look back at the political week in 60 seconds.

Here's Gareth Gordon. Trouble at the executive. The DUP

and Sinn Fein crossed swords over who was to blame for lack of

progress. They need to wake up and smell the

coffee and start taking decisions instead of frustrating the good

government of Northern Ireland. should be going into rooms and

sitting down and talking through the issues. The row frustrated

leading industrialists. If they were a business they would be

bankrupt. A bomb attack on the Boston Marathon leaves three people

dead and hundreds injured. All of those who have been to Boston won

over the city is at once American, European and Irish. The funeral of

Baroness Thatcher took place and 1,000 lined the streets to play

their last respects. A after Francie Molloy made success in a

by-election he became the deputy speaker. Is there a second for him?

I would be the second. Gareth Gordon reoporting. Let's

hear a final thought from Alex and Suzanne.

Talk about political disunity in the executive, particularly between

the DUP and Sinn Fein. We keep hearing a lot about it, we hear the

relationship at the top has not good. Alex Attwood said on Thursday

that there is a frosty relationship in the executive, frostier than

eager as ever known. What is the answer? The whole of Stormont is

dysfunctional, the whole set-up is dysfunctional. This is really about

two parties playing to their grassroots. I don't believe there

is any great ultimate disagreements between Peter Robinson and Martin

McGuinness, I don't think there is any particular personal problems,

it is really just about both parties appeasing their grass roots.

It is a very phoney war. They actually get on a lot better than a

lot of people with thing but they are aiming to keep their grassroots

on board with these walls and is nit-picking. Do you think people

get on better than people think or do you think the frostiness is 100%

genuine? I think it is not 100% genuine but it is genuine. What is

the difference? I think they are almost hate each other, but not

quite. These are two men leading to parties who do not want to be

around the same table. They don't want to be the same government they

do not have the same duffer of -- agenda. The only reason they stay

together is mutual assured destruction if one of them pull out.

Is mutual veto, mutual hostility. They despise each other's presence

in government. They are playing to their own galleries because they

have no other option but to play to their own galleries because there

is no one else to play two. they say that they want to be there

and they want to make the system work. That is a delight the parties

saying, we want opposition but we will not go into it. This is the

reverse. We want to be together because we tried to send us some

sort of message but as soon as you say you do not want to be there or

share, you will come back and ask them why they are there. They are

there because they have to be and there is no love involve. Four we

saw an extract of John Cunningham saying that the executive would be

bankrupted it was a business. Is it a fair,? Absolutely fair,. I think

it would be bust. The reality is that most people on the ground are

disconnected from the situation there. All that raises their

interest his expenses, civil servants, foreign junkets,

thousands of pounds being wasted. That is there any interest in