22/01/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland


22/01/2012

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser present. Shadow Business Secretary Chuka Umunna on Labour's plan for the economy and is it time to leave the European Court of Human Rights?


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Afternoon. Welcome to the Sunday politics. The top story is George

:00:40.:00:45.

Osborne wanting Britain to play its part to stabilise the world economy.

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The opposition will request billions of pounds of extra funds

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to bail out the eurozone. Does the Chancellor had a fight on his

:00:53.:01:03.
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hands? Has Ed Miliband got his fingers burned? I will be asking

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the shadow Business Secretary in the Sunday interview. A judge has

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ruled that a radical Muslim cleric can stay in this country. Should we

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leave the European Court of Human Rights? We will debate that topic

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live. And on Sunday Politics Scotland:

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The head of the Council of Economic Advisors tells us he doesn't know

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what a post-independence economy would look like and using sterling

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wouldn't be ideal. But Crawford Beveridge is still finding reasons

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to be cheerful. And is the Advocate General above

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:01:46.:01:46.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1655 seconds

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I am sitting on the government commission looking at this. People

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have raised a number of things. One of the things they are concerned

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about is if we withdrew from the European Convention, we would be

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withdrawing from the Council of Europe. It would be very difficult

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to withdraw from the European Council. What would be wrong with

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having a British Bill of Rights? am one of the people who argued

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that we should have a jury trial, habeas corpus, incorporated into

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our very own Bill of Rights. The problem with it is people like

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Martin want to use this as a Trojan horse because they do not like

:30:08.:30:16.

Europe. The Council of Europe is completely separate to the EU.

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Another example is the issue of prisoners voting rights. The House

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of Commons has ordered by enormous majorities that we do not wish to

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give the right of prisoners the vote. The European Court of Human

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Rights is substituting its judgment for the will of our elected

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representatives. What are the chances of Mr Cameron making any

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move on this? We will see what he comes out with. He wants to

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introduce a filtering mechanism. What does he want to do? He does

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:31:03.:31:10.

not have a good chance. Thank you Good afternoon. Welcome to Scotland.

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Coming up, the head of the Council of Economic Advisers tells us that

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fiscal policy of using Stirling in an independent Scotland is not

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ideal. He is not sure what the economic implications of

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independence would be. Is the nude role of the Advocate General

:31:29.:31:32.

becoming political? Who'll board in the referendum? Will Scottish

:31:32.:31:37.

soldiers based in England miss out? The government say you can have

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your cake and eat it, but at what cost? The Council of economic

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advisers met this week for the first time since the end of 2010.

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This independent body offers insight and advice to government. I

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caught up with the businessman Crawford Beveridge after the

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:32:06.:32:13.

meeting. It is hard to tell how it 2012 is shaping up. It looks like

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many of the economies will see ourselves slipped forward for a

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month and go forward for a month. It looks like it will take a longer

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time to recover. What sort of growth can you predict for

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Scotland? As usual, we were very low last year, it is hard to

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predict. Somewhere between no gross and one % growth for UK economies.

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What does that mean for Scotland? We need to be very careful about

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the kind of policies we set. I am very pleased the Government has

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continued to spend on capital, because the more we can do on

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capital investment, the more we can go against the trend of being

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downward in other business areas. The private sector has also been

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very good at creating jobs compared to the rest of the UK, which

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offsets some of the drop in the public sector. Do you think the

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referendum question is affecting business confidence? I am not

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:33:34.:33:36.

getting that from the people like Dr. -- people I talk to. The

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concerns are more about the rest of Europe, the euro, those are causing

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uncertainty. I have had no one -- I have not had any body suggesting

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the referendum is one of the things that is high on their list. Could

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it affect the credit rating of the UK? I would be surprised. They are

:34:03.:34:12.

much more concerned with getting the economy back to normal.

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have said in the past that full fiscal autonomy would actually

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deliver less revenue because of the depressed tax base. Is that still

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your opinion? It is not clear to me that that would be the case. Some

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of it depends on the negotiations of the oil revenue. Also, Scotland

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has done rather well in the Foreign Investment a rear in the last few

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:34:50.:34:54.

months, with companies like Amazon moving in. Do you support

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independence? I do. Can we discuss in some detail what you think a

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post-independence Scottish economy would look like? I was speaking to

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someone the other night who was very concerned about figuring out

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whether you would be better off or worse off financially. My answer to

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that was, if you are asking me over the next 15 or 20 years how the

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economy will do, the answer is nobody knows. What we do know is we

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have strong growing sectors in Scotland, a very stable population,

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one that is growing for the first time in a long time, so there is a

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lot more resources, we are successful at capturing inward

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investment, we have good plans about exports, and so I am

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confident that when left to our own devices, people at understanding we

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:36:03.:36:03.

are standing on a Rome two feet. -- our own two feet. How important do

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you think the economy will be? think it will be more important

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than it should be. I would like to think people would like to make a

:36:11.:36:19.

decision based on whether they want to determine their own future. If

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we want to do those things, then we should be voting in that direction.

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The economy is that important. People worry about whether they

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will be OK and have a job. I understand those fears will stop I

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do not think they should be that nothing on the mind. -- I

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understand those fears, but I do not think they should be the only

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thing. If we look at the Stirling, post-independence, is it could

:36:52.:36:55.

Europe to have the Bank of England dictating the interest rate for

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Scotland? If that was the decision that was made, and that would seem

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most logical, it is not ideal. You can look at other currency unions

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that have happened in the past, you can solve some of this via fiscal

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:37:28.:37:32.

rules. Sit down and say we will abide by certain amount of debt.

:37:32.:37:34.

The last Council of Economic Advisers had suggested that this

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goal Commission would allow this to appear to rules that would mean we

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would not do anything that would drive down the wrong path. How many

:37:45.:37:48.

public sector jobs do you think will have to go if the Government

:37:48.:37:58.
:37:58.:38:00.

is to have an appropriate economic policy? It will depend on this

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balance between pay restraint and how long you can do that. It is

:38:05.:38:13.

hard to keep people on a pay restraint for a long time.

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council tax wheeze should continue for no more than a year or more?

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would hope it does not have to go on for long time, but it is

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sensible to keep it as an assurance to people. For another year?

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that is what it takes. If we look at some of the recommendations he

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:38:48.:38:52.

made, which ones should be revisit? If you could just list them.

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all those areas, I think... Just to clarify, what areas do you mean?

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Three personal care, bus travel, prescriptions. -- free personal

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care. The feeling of the Independent budget review was if

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you were looking at those, it was not a case of scrapping them, it

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was where there are those who can afford to pay for them should be

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invited to do that. It was off focusing on providing it for people

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who need it, and not people like me. That would be our advice. If we

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have to keep cutting, rather than taking those things away from the

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vulnerable, take a look at how those who are more fortunate can

:39:46.:39:51.

pay some of their share. Where is the evidence that he persuaded John

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Swinney to do anything he was going to do anyway? I can only talk to

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the last council. It had 10 meetings between 2007 and 2010.

:40:06.:40:15.

Over that period we made many recommendations to the government.

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They accepted 45 of those recommendations, which later

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appeared in the economic strategy and some of the Budget. Assuming we

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have the same leeway with this council, I fully expect we will

:40:32.:40:37.

have the same influence going forward. Having accepted this

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position, can you have a profile on the independence referendum? Would

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you want one? Not particularly! I am happy to do whatever people want

:40:47.:40:54.

me to do, and I am always happy to sit down with friends and talk to

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them about why that makes sense, but it is not one of those things.

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I am not a politician. Can you vote in the referendum? I can. I have

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the distinct privilege of paying taxes in two countries, the United

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States and the United Kingdom. I am on the electoral register and I am

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here half of the time. I call by. Crawford Beveridge there. -- I

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qualify. Joining me is hums a use of and Ken Macintosh. -- Humza

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Yousaf. This system of setting up the school rules, that would be

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dependent on the Bank of England. Is that satisfactory? It is an

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interesting argument. Crawford Beveridge seemed to be making the

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case on one side for independence, and on the other talking about

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interdependence of the economy. He was quite clear you cannot be that

:42:07.:42:15.

Independent these days. It is a very strange argument. He is saying

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we will prosper but we will get their main lever of power to

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another nation. That is assuming that the English would want us to

:42:24.:42:34.
:42:34.:42:36.

use their currency. Why would they allow us to use it? We would have

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to ask their permission. We would not have to ask their permission.

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That is why George Osborne ended up backtracking. Crawford Beveridge

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actually makes the point very well. We have 40 currency unions across

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:43:03.:43:04.

the world. Our currency is an interchangeable dynamic currency.

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People would still have a pound in their pocket. It is not about his

:43:12.:43:21.

face is on the Collins, on the power note. -- whose face is on the

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coin or pound note. You do not have the lever, the point is you will

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not have the currency and be discussion format. Even if you have

:43:35.:43:40.

a joint currency union, you still have the decision to make over

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corporation tax, welfare system, various other taxes. You still have

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that the choice over other aspects. That is what in the pen is is about,

:43:56.:44:01.

tried in, illegal war. This would be up for negotiation, that is the

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point. When it comes to independence, of course we will be

:44:07.:44:11.

negotiating. It is incorrect to say we would have to get permission.

:44:11.:44:17.

That is simply not true. I still do not understand. You say you would

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be independent because you want to control power, but you say you do

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not want this power. I just explained, being independent is the

:44:29.:44:35.

decision not having nuclear weapons, illegal war. Do you want economic

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independence, you're talking about having power over your tax system,

:44:38.:44:47.

welfare system, and when it comes to it, over 40 currency unions are

:44:47.:44:53.

extremely successful. The key thing here is devilish and gives you

:44:53.:44:59.

influence and control over your spending and some of your taxation.

:44:59.:45:03.

But there could be a question on the ballot about that. You do not

:45:03.:45:09.

need a question about that. You are remaining for the interview

:45:09.:45:15.

with Lord Wallace, but the Budget will be discussed in Holyrood on

:45:15.:45:19.

Wednesday. The you think it is sustainable to keep the council tax

:45:19.:45:29.
:45:29.:45:31.

freeze? I think the council tax freeze is unsustainable. We

:45:31.:45:37.

actually lost 13,000 government jobs this year alone. Clearly if we

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continue we will lose more jobs. It is not sustainable on those terms,

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and I would welcome a far greater openness about that discussion.

:45:55.:46:04.

Compulsory redundancies? That is not a genuine argument. 200 Scott

:46:04.:46:09.

every day lose jobs, and if you ask them whether they were laid off

:46:10.:46:14.

compulsory -- via compulsory methods, it is a sham. It is a

:46:14.:46:24.
:46:24.:46:30.

disguise. Let me come back on that, in the Labour manifesto, they were

:46:30.:46:34.

advocating a council tax freeze. To go back on that and say it is

:46:34.:46:39.

unsustainable is ridiculous. Ed Miliband has now said a pay freeze

:46:39.:46:44.

for public sector workers is absolutely the correct thing to do.

:46:44.:46:51.

Now Scottish Labour are saying it is not. We have given the SNP are

:46:51.:46:56.

support for two years because that was our election position, and they

:46:56.:47:04.

promised five years. When would you put it off? Iris was only for two

:47:04.:47:13.

years. -- Ours. It is no longer sustainable. The figures go up

:47:13.:47:18.

every year. I think you should allow councils the freedom to set

:47:18.:47:22.

their own tax, but the key to this is if you give them enough money,

:47:22.:47:30.

if he were to give them the subsidy to keep it down, they would. Labour

:47:30.:47:35.

introduce the council tax free in Glasgow before the SNP. Your policy

:47:35.:47:44.

would be to end the council tax free. Would you cut the rise?

:47:44.:47:48.

SNP have got a policy in place of freezing council tax without giving

:47:48.:47:51.

councils the money to pay for it. We would give them the money and

:47:51.:48:01.
:48:01.:48:08.

The former Lib Dem Deputy First Minister, and now Advocate General

:48:08.:48:10.

- Lord Wallace of Tankerness - threw himself into the political

:48:10.:48:13.

battle between the coalition and the SNP in Glasgow on Friday to

:48:13.:48:16.

reiterate Westminster's legal position on the referendum and his

:48:16.:48:26.
:48:26.:48:33.

role. This is a matter of law. If you are an officer, law is your job.

:48:33.:48:39.

Under the Scotland Act, I have some statutory functions.

:48:39.:48:46.

The Advocate General is in our Edinburgh studio for us now. In at

:48:46.:48:50.

stressing this role that you have, it is supposed to be legal rather

:48:50.:48:55.

than political. If you're interested in purely legal terms,

:48:55.:48:59.

if your objective is to secure the competency of the referendum, you

:48:59.:49:06.

should have offered that protection without any conditions. Let us

:49:06.:49:15.

celebrate the two things. -- separate. I gave a your lecture.

:49:15.:49:25.
:49:25.:49:25.

That is what I delivered. -- a law lecturer. I said that is why the

:49:25.:49:29.

Scottish Parliament doesn't have the competence to take forward the

:49:29.:49:39.
:49:39.:49:43.

Bill, and the document sets out why the Government should also be fair

:49:43.:49:49.

and decisive. The argument I was putting forward was very much a

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legal one, but I of asleep support government policy. -- but I

:49:58.:50:05.

obviously support. Would to be obliged to challenge it through

:50:06.:50:15.

judicial review? That is a hypothetical situation. Is it part

:50:15.:50:22.

of your statutory role to challenge this? What is your position? If you

:50:23.:50:28.

look at section 33 of the Scotland Act, he will find the Attorney

:50:28.:50:34.

General, the Lord advocate and myself can each individually take a

:50:34.:50:44.
:50:44.:50:46.

bill... Are you are obliged to?... Cannot take it to the Supreme Court.

:50:46.:50:56.
:50:56.:50:57.

Every bill is overlooked that. -- every bill is looked that. Who can

:50:57.:51:07.
:51:07.:51:09.

actually do this? There was a case last year which involved accident

:51:09.:51:19.
:51:19.:51:21.

and insurance. Him coming to their decision, the Supreme Court

:51:21.:51:28.

indicated that what qualified people to have interest, will be

:51:28.:51:34.

much wider. That is the point are had been trying to make: We want to

:51:34.:51:38.

avoid that situation. The Scottish and UK governments would agree that

:51:38.:51:44.

an issue as important as this, the last thing we want to have is

:51:44.:51:49.

having these issues boiled down to a legal wrangle in court. If there

:51:49.:51:54.

is a way forward, we should be exploring that. I think we are

:51:54.:52:02.

making progress. What specifically? The Scottish government is not

:52:02.:52:09.

adverse to using a section 30 order, Mr Swinney said that the priority

:52:09.:52:13.

of the Scottish government was to have a single question, there has

:52:13.:52:16.

been a suggestion in the press today that the Scottish government

:52:16.:52:22.

might not be so insistent on extending to 16 and 17-year-olds,

:52:22.:52:29.

and we heard on Friday evening that the role of the electoral

:52:29.:52:32.

commission is one the Scottish government would be willing to

:52:32.:52:42.

accept. I think there is a lot to discuss. And nothing has been

:52:42.:52:50.

firmed up for you at this point? As we go into these discussions, can I

:52:50.:52:56.

ask you, how comfortable is it for you personally, as a federalist,

:52:56.:53:01.

someone who has signed his Scottish Claim of Right, someone who has

:53:01.:53:07.

campaigned all his life for federalism, how comfortable is it

:53:07.:53:17.

for you personally to oppose this on a referendum paper? Confusing

:53:17.:53:21.

two separate issues on a referendum pay-per- would lead to confusion.

:53:21.:53:28.

Therefore I think it would be better that we can actually decide

:53:28.:53:32.

the question which the Scottish National Party will put forward in

:53:32.:53:40.

his manifesto. Once that question is decided, I hope we will remain

:53:40.:53:50.
:53:50.:53:50.

part of the UK. It will make it easier for us to go forward. I want

:53:50.:53:55.

to enhance the powers of the Scottish Parliament. It is easier

:53:55.:54:03.

to argue that case. Are you saying that to you signed the Scottish

:54:03.:54:08.

Claim of Right, but it is now your judgment that they are not smart

:54:08.:54:13.

enough to work out a referendum? That is not what I'm saying. I

:54:13.:54:19.

signed that Claim of Right. And that produced a blueprint for the

:54:19.:54:25.

Scottish Parliament. The Scottish people voted for that. That is the

:54:25.:54:34.

settlement we have a. Scottish people will have the opportunity to

:54:34.:54:38.

decide whether it they will wish to remain part of the United Kingdom

:54:38.:54:45.

or not. I hope that they do value feelings we have with the rest of

:54:45.:54:50.

the UK, and that we can move on to see how we can improve. Let us

:54:50.:54:55.

remember as well there is a Bill before Parliament this coming week

:54:55.:55:03.

which will enhance the powers of the Scottish Parliament as well.

:55:03.:55:06.

Simon Hughes has been saying there should be an English Parliament. Do

:55:06.:55:15.

you agree? I am agnostic as to whether it the English have one

:55:15.:55:21.

Parliament or not. I note that if we are looking at decentralisation,

:55:21.:55:26.

I have never been persuaded that an English Parliament would give you

:55:26.:55:33.

that degree of decentralisation. I will let my English colleagues

:55:33.:55:41.

worked a tub. You don't see a little bit of a paradox there?

:55:41.:55:51.

work that out a. We are talking about a settlement agreed by the

:55:51.:55:58.

Scottish people in 1997, where some things were resolved -- devolved to

:55:58.:56:04.

Westminster, and others at the to the Scottish Parliament. I am

:56:04.:56:09.

heartened by the progress there has been made. That is a sensible way

:56:09.:56:13.

forward, and we should not end up with these matters being dragged

:56:13.:56:20.

through the courts. The referendum goes through the civil process, but

:56:20.:56:27.

can I transfer now to the criminal process. I am talking about cases

:56:27.:56:37.

ending up in the Supreme Court. Lord Hamilton says "they should

:56:37.:56:47.
:56:47.:56:49.

have the same process as the High Court". You said that you remain to

:56:49.:56:55.

be persuaded that that. Why? I had a consultation of this last year,

:56:55.:57:03.

and in terms of the response as we got, the views were expressed that

:57:03.:57:08.

they should not be that certification. When Lord McCluskey

:57:08.:57:13.

consulted on that, there was a wide range of opinion which said that

:57:13.:57:21.

certification it should not be there. There our legal issues here,

:57:21.:57:28.

but I give evidence to the Scottish Parliament that the reason it was

:57:28.:57:34.

brought in, when a right of appeal to the House of Lords in 1961

:57:34.:57:39.

criminal matters was introduced, it was for purely administrative

:57:39.:57:46.

reasons. No one is suggesting that the Supreme Court, on a narrow

:57:46.:57:53.

issue of whether a -- own appeal should go that way, we will have

:57:53.:58:00.

this debate in the House of Lords. Lord McCluskey has tabled

:58:00.:58:06.

amendments. I will give proper consideration to the further

:58:06.:58:09.

representations letter from the Lord President, and I can

:58:09.:58:17.

anticipate that the debate will be well informed. The Government does

:58:18.:58:24.

not guarantee a majority either. It is a genuine that legal issue, and

:58:24.:58:30.

they are different views from legal opinion on this. We will have a

:58:30.:58:39.

very healthy debate. Let me just ask you - the Lord President is

:58:39.:58:44.

saying this is an appropriate way to go. He is also saying "we will

:58:44.:58:54.
:58:54.:58:55.

do as Lord McCluskey be recommended a". Are you concerned that the

:58:55.:58:57.

Scottish bench will block cases that should be referred to the

:58:57.:59:07.
:59:07.:59:08.

Supreme Court? -- as Lord McCluskey recommended. There is a genuine

:59:08.:59:14.

scope here for debate. That will take place in the House of Lords.

:59:15.:59:21.

But we are not comparing like with like. In England and Wales, it is

:59:21.:59:30.

the whole criminal justice system that is no doubt, in terms of

:59:30.:59:40.
:59:40.:59:40.

Scottish issues, is the apex. There would be an appeal to the House of

:59:40.:59:45.

Lords, so we are not comparing like with like.

:59:45.:59:52.

Still with me are the MSPs Humza Yousaf and Ken Macintosh. Let us

:59:52.:00:02.

pick up this idea of an English Parliament. What you think of that?

:00:02.:00:12.

I thought that the paradoxes were spot on. He said that those north

:00:12.:00:18.

of the border should not be commenting on an English Parliament.

:00:18.:00:24.

Yet, he is more than content to have Westminster colleagues

:00:24.:00:28.

interfering. I think English people should have their own Parliament

:00:29.:00:36.

and representation, they are a very proud nation. Do you think there is

:00:36.:00:40.

a stage in this process in which people south of the border should

:00:40.:00:50.
:00:50.:00:53.

be consulted? The UK government and Parliament will have to make a

:00:53.:01:00.

decision, because legally, the decision rests with them. They will

:01:00.:01:10.
:01:10.:01:13.

have to vote on it. As to the decision, it is a Scottish one.

:01:13.:01:19.

Lib Dems are saying there has to be a process in which there is some

:01:19.:01:26.

reflection of what is happening in England. At the time of devolution,

:01:26.:01:36.
:01:36.:01:37.

English people were consulted. rejected the Scottish model. They

:01:37.:01:47.
:01:47.:01:54.

The think the SNP should join in? Labour has been arguing that Alex

:01:54.:02:00.

Salmond has been reluctant to engage with the other parties bus-

:02:00.:02:03.

stop the has asked the Prime Minister to see in six or seven

:02:03.:02:13.
:02:13.:02:14.

times. The Scottish Labour will get involved in the consultation that

:02:14.:02:18.

will be launched on Wednesday. One top of that, I am sure when the

:02:18.:02:28.
:02:28.:02:28.

referendum is held there will be plenty of talks. What stage are we

:02:28.:02:35.

at here? I do not believe there are in for more formal talks. The

:02:35.:02:42.

opposition parties are in a position where would like to reach

:02:42.:02:49.

out. We would like to embrace civic Scotland, the trade unions, in

:02:49.:02:57.

discussions. We want to involve everybody. Why, if you will not

:02:57.:03:03.

allow at devolution Max question. This is about independence. They

:03:03.:03:11.

were not elected to deliver devolution Max. If you are going to

:03:11.:03:17.

listen to civic society, at the Church of Scotland committees, you

:03:18.:03:24.

have already made up your mind. The SNP says very clearly are

:03:24.:03:28.

questioned his independence. But we will listen to civic society. They

:03:28.:03:38.
:03:38.:03:40.

are asking to discuss the devilish and Max. -- devolution max. We have

:03:40.:03:43.

always supported abolition. We do not need to discuss it with anybody.

:03:44.:03:51.

The only thing we have to agree on is whether we should be independent.

:03:51.:04:00.

You are not sure whether you will get away with it.

:04:00.:04:05.

Do you not get any sense at all that the electorate are signing up

:04:05.:04:10.

for this? Can I just say, we are discussing this, the Scotland Bill

:04:10.:04:14.

has not gone through yet. It delivers a whole lot of new powers

:04:14.:04:21.

for Scotland. All I'm saying is it has not even been implemented yet.

:04:21.:04:25.

We do not even have a date for the referendum, and you are talking

:04:25.:04:29.

about post the referendum that we do not know the date of, what the

:04:29.:04:35.

questions might be. I am sorry, but the only people bringing up

:04:35.:04:40.

independence are the SNP, so why don't we resolve that? Then we

:04:40.:04:45.

could have a decent discussion about evolution. You would do very

:04:45.:04:51.

well to listen to Malcolm Chisholm, who says you need to get off the

:04:51.:04:57.

Scotland Bill as quickly as possible.

:04:57.:05:02.

Those comments were not met with a slammed door. Do you think there's

:05:02.:05:10.

a chink of light going into this question? It is so unimportant

:05:10.:05:17.

compared with the issue of independence. We just had terrible

:05:18.:05:25.

economic news this week, about unemployment. We cannot even get at

:05:25.:05:32.

clear statement from the SNP on their policy. Talking about that

:05:32.:05:38.

terrible news, Ed Miliband said the Tory cuts are appropriate. Did he

:05:38.:05:46.

top two Joanne landmark before he said that? -- did he talk to Johann

:05:46.:05:52.

Lamont? I think these are difficult times and back pain has to be

:05:52.:05:59.

shared. We are not unrealistic about this. So you think the cuts

:05:59.:06:05.

are appropriate and proportionate? That is not what we said. We want

:06:05.:06:12.

to address unemployment first and foremost. They are not delivering a

:06:12.:06:19.

budget that creates jobs. Thank you very much.

:06:20.:06:24.

Who will get a vote in the independence referendum? There is a

:06:24.:06:30.

debate about 16 and 17 year-olds. Both governments seem to agree that

:06:30.:06:36.

a system based on residency should be used. That would mean thousands

:06:36.:06:41.

of Scots outside Scotland would not get to vote and could also exclude

:06:41.:06:45.

some Scottish soldiers based in England.

:06:45.:06:49.

Gordon Henderson is Scottish, his wife is English and has lived in 10

:06:49.:06:55.

years. They will both get aboard in the independence referendum, but

:06:55.:06:58.

Gordon's Scottish brother and sister living in England might not.

:06:58.:07:02.

They would like to vote on the future of their country. I think it

:07:02.:07:08.

should be extended to Scott living outside Scotland. I think it should

:07:08.:07:18.
:07:18.:07:19.

be extended to all people in the There are separate systems for the

:07:19.:07:23.

Scottish and Westminster elections. The local government and parliament

:07:23.:07:31.

franchise is mainly based on franchise is mainly based on

:07:31.:07:36.

residency. The general election is largely the same, except EU

:07:36.:07:46.
:07:46.:07:48.

The local government and Scottish parliamentary franchise was used in

:07:48.:07:57.

the 1997 devilish in referendum. -- devolution. The government's

:07:57.:08:01.

largely agree about who should Ford in a Scottish referendum. They say

:08:01.:08:05.

it is the same as those who should boat in a Scottish Government

:08:05.:08:10.

election. That is determined primarily by presidents and bike

:08:10.:08:20.
:08:20.:08:24.

One man has launched a campaign to allow people to vote who are living

:08:24.:08:32.

outside Scotland. If I was living in New York, living in France, why

:08:32.:08:36.

can I vote for my Scottish MP yet am being denied the board for the

:08:36.:08:44.

biggest question of all on independence? -- the vote.

:08:44.:08:48.

campaign was raised in the Scottish Parliament by a Labour MP. But the

:08:48.:08:54.

SNP say it would be too complicated to extend it? If the system is

:08:54.:08:57.

based on residency, what would it mean for Scottish troops based in

:08:57.:09:07.
:09:07.:09:08.

England? Members of the public eye usually registered where their

:09:08.:09:13.

Barack start. This is probably the time to think how the referendum

:09:13.:09:19.

affects your long-term pretensions, will it increase or diminish your

:09:19.:09:25.

intention to retire to Scotland when you leave the armed forces?

:09:25.:09:28.

Will you consider registering in the constituency where you have a

:09:29.:09:36.

connection? The electoral commission says the service

:09:36.:09:44.

personnel have already collected two bought in England. -- elected

:09:44.:09:51.

to vote. The burning question for people in Hamilton College is

:09:51.:09:59.

whether people of the rate will get to vote. The SNP are in favour. --

:09:59.:10:03.

People of they age. The coalition government do not want to allow

:10:03.:10:09.

them the board. It could be a sticking point between Holyrood and

:10:09.:10:18.

Westminster. Opinion is divided. do not know what I tipped that

:10:18.:10:25.

we're not got a laugh about it. -- we do not know enough about it.

:10:25.:10:33.

think we should be allowed to have our say. Legislation paving the way

:10:33.:10:38.

for the referendum will ultimately decide who gets the vote. Those

:10:38.:10:45.

Scot living outside the country will need to wait a bit longer.

:10:45.:10:48.

The Westminster government is thinking of introducing a tax on

:10:48.:10:53.

obesity. Our reporter has been to Drumchapel to investigate whether

:10:53.:11:00.

putting a levy on junk food could actually changed our reading habits.

:11:00.:11:08.

-- change our eating habits. With 33 % of Scots now obese, public

:11:08.:11:12.

health experts are warning that unless it is tackled, obesity could

:11:12.:11:18.

cost Scotland �3 billion per year. If we do nothing, the evidence is

:11:18.:11:26.

very strong that obesity will increase substantially. To protect

:11:26.:11:31.

the public and their health service, Denmark has slapped our flat tax on

:11:31.:11:40.

food such as milk, cheese and beats up. -- a fat tax on pizza. Will it

:11:40.:11:50.
:11:50.:11:52.

work here? It will oblige manufacturers to change the recipes.

:11:52.:11:56.

Here in Drumchapel community centre, locals are taking part in a cookery

:11:56.:12:01.

programme designed to change their attitude to food. Despite a range

:12:01.:12:03.

of healthy-eating initiatives, Glasgow as some of the highest

:12:03.:12:10.

death rates from heart disease in the world. Do the women here think

:12:10.:12:17.

attacks would help? If a bag of crisps was to rise, it would not

:12:17.:12:27.
:12:27.:12:29.

discourage me. It is sometimes cheaper to buy an active pizzas. --

:12:29.:12:39.
:12:39.:12:41.

buy a pizza. It will not solve the problem. They need education.

:12:41.:12:45.

they are taxing the junk food, they should use the money to subsidise

:12:45.:12:49.

healthier food. The Scottish Government is working with the food

:12:49.:12:55.

industry business to cut obesity. One of the local GPs believes more

:12:55.:13:01.

needs to be done to tackle the bigger picture. It would be an

:13:01.:13:07.

assault on the poor. The UK Government is considering

:13:07.:13:16.

introducing this tax. Is our love affair meaning we cannot afford to

:13:16.:13:21.

not take action? With me is Amanda Hamilton and

:13:21.:13:31.
:13:31.:13:31.

Brenda Sowny. Thank you for coming in. Would an obesity tax work?

:13:31.:13:41.
:13:41.:13:43.

on its own. It would actually make people who live very poor, it could

:13:43.:13:49.

net the work if there was other things in place, but not overnight.

:13:49.:13:57.

-- maybe work. The Danish are saying there is no disadvantage but

:13:57.:14:03.

there are less of a margin between salary levels. Is it a problem that

:14:04.:14:11.

they are cheaper? Education, people do not understand how bad this book

:14:11.:14:21.
:14:21.:14:22.

can affect you. If they do not have money to do a big shock, -- big

:14:22.:14:31.

shop, they are going to buy what is on their doorstep. In theory this

:14:31.:14:39.

is fantastic, but in practice people cannot afford it. We also

:14:39.:14:47.

need to attack sugar to make a genuine impact. I also think those

:14:48.:14:57.
:14:58.:14:58.

working on the ground know that it cannot work in isolation. It needs

:14:58.:15:03.

to be ring-fenced. We need to do something bold, we are the fattest

:15:03.:15:07.

nation in Europe. Whatever we are doing is not enough. It is sending

:15:07.:15:14.

the message that food manufacturers need to step up to the mark. Nobody

:15:15.:15:20.

advertises bananas and apples. It is carbohydrate and refined,

:15:20.:15:30.
:15:30.:15:34.

Do you think that it is slightly patronising to say to certain

:15:34.:15:43.

sections of society "don't eat that". There have been a lot of

:15:43.:15:48.

campaigns. I think it is wrong to say "changed the way you are

:15:48.:15:58.
:15:58.:16:02.

living". If they can get access to fresh fruit and vegetables, then it

:16:02.:16:07.

is a wrong to presume that somebody living on a low income is obese,

:16:07.:16:12.

and they need to change their way of life. You are running a project

:16:12.:16:17.

in which three fruit and vegetables were being distributed. Do you have

:16:17.:16:23.

concerns that in this current economic climate, that is the sort

:16:23.:16:31.

of very practical, basic initiative that could be hit? We have had huge

:16:31.:16:35.

funding cuts in the last three years, it so we do not give out

:16:35.:16:43.

freak fruit and vegetables. So we give out low-cost crude and

:16:43.:16:53.
:16:53.:16:59.

vegetables. -- fruit and vegetables. One supermarket is costly, so

:16:59.:17:05.

people do use it. It also helps in different ways, such as a

:17:05.:17:14.

volunteering. There are a lot of different things it does. The

:17:14.:17:22.

Government have not withdrawn putting fresh fruit in. Part of

:17:22.:17:31.

this money could be used to fund this. You cannot say a backward we

:17:31.:17:41.
:17:41.:17:43.

are in centre rising health"and then raise the money elsewhere. --

:17:43.:17:53.

you cannot say we are in centre rising health. It is people that

:17:53.:17:56.

are giving up their time, like yourself, that one need to be

:17:56.:18:01.

supported more. It has got to be in schools, it has to become more

:18:01.:18:11.
:18:11.:18:16.

important in Scotland. It will only get worse. If you look and economic

:18:16.:18:26.
:18:26.:18:30.

problem, or why elect somebody already impoverished? It is only a

:18:31.:18:38.

downward spiral. When we look at the most basic responses, it in --

:18:38.:18:44.

is at his basic as cookery classes in schools? I worked on a panel

:18:44.:18:53.

recently talking about home economics. The Cross family impact,

:18:53.:19:02.

that we have seen, I was saying, why not have sex at up a bit? I

:19:02.:19:06.

think we should engage with children in a much more modern way.

:19:06.:19:11.

Why not incentive as health end a different way? I have got three

:19:11.:19:19.

children I am feeding at home, and you cannot say"come on children,

:19:19.:19:29.
:19:29.:19:32.

step up". It is about linking the different parts together. They do

:19:32.:19:37.

both very much. And now here's the lunchtime news

:19:37.:19:41.

with Andrew Kerr. Good afternoon. The Deputy Prime

:19:41.:19:44.

Minister has called on the Scottish Government to provide basic answers

:19:44.:19:47.

on their plans for an independent Scotland. Speaking on the BBC's

:19:47.:19:49.

Andrew Marr Show, Nick Clegg rejected calls for an English

:19:49.:19:52.

Parliament made by the Liberal Democrats' Deputy leader, Simon

:19:52.:19:57.

Hughes. The Scottish Government says details of the referendum will

:19:57.:20:00.

be released on Wednesday, but Mr Clegg says there are fundamental

:20:00.:20:07.

issues about independence itself. At a time when the central argument

:20:07.:20:12.

is about the wisdom of wrenching Scotland out of the UK, let us

:20:12.:20:16.

focus on that debate, and let us get the SNP to provide basic

:20:16.:20:26.
:20:26.:20:27.

answers. They would be able to provide answers, and that is what

:20:27.:20:30.

we should focus on. Police in Inverness searching for a

:20:30.:20:33.

missing teenage boy have found a body. Scott Campbell, who is 16,

:20:33.:20:37.

was last seen in the city in the early hours of yesterday morning.

:20:37.:20:40.

The body has not yet been formally identified, but Scott's family have

:20:40.:20:41.

been made aware of the circumstances.

:20:41.:20:44.

Scientists at the Beatson Institute in Glasgow say they have created

:20:44.:20:47.

the first 3D image of a protein which protects against cancer. If

:20:47.:20:50.

the protein stops functioning properly, cells divide too often,

:20:50.:20:54.

which can lead to the disease. The team hope their images will assist

:20:54.:20:58.

the development of new drugs. Now let's take a look at the

:20:58.:21:08.
:21:08.:21:14.

A colt, breezy afternoon. A lot of dry weather across the country,

:21:14.:21:18.

particularly across central, southern and eastern Scotland. Some

:21:18.:21:25.

showers pulling him across the northern isles. These are showers

:21:25.:21:33.

are fewer than it yesterday. Temperatures peaking at 7-8 Celsius.

:21:33.:21:38.

That is your forecast. That's all for now. Our next

:21:38.:21:44.

bulletin is at 18:50pm, but for now, Thanks, Andrew. Now, in a moment,

:21:44.:21:47.

we'll be discussing the big events coming up this week at Holyrood,

:21:47.:21:57.
:21:57.:21:59.

but first, let's take a look back at the week in sixty seconds.

:21:59.:22:05.

People in Scotland are out of work. The Finance Secretary calls for a

:22:05.:22:15.
:22:15.:22:16.

new cook wide job summit. -- for a UK-wide.

:22:16.:22:20.

The brakes will be included in these hours, and although the

:22:20.:22:29.

ambulance service remains committed to ensuring staff are rested, all

:22:29.:22:36.

teams will be available to attend emergency calls.

:22:36.:22:41.

The Lib Dems say Scotland's top civil servant is cheerleading for

:22:41.:22:46.

the SNP. Ministers say he has acted within the Civil Service code of

:22:46.:22:56.

conduct. The downfall of Labour's social media, Tom Harris, as he

:22:56.:23:00.

compared Alex Salmond to Hitler was an unhelpful describe the action.

:23:00.:23:04.

On Wednesday, as the First Minster takes to his feet to unveil the

:23:04.:23:06.

details of the SNP's consultation on the referendum, it's a fair

:23:06.:23:09.

guess the press gallery will be a bit fuller than normal.

:23:09.:23:13.

This week, we have invited a couple of ex MSPs on to give us their take

:23:13.:23:16.

on the week ahead. We're joined by the former Labour MSP, Des McNulty,

:23:16.:23:25.

and for the SNP, Shirley Anne Somerville. His life outside that

:23:25.:23:30.

building refreshing, enjoyable? is interesting to not be part of it,

:23:30.:23:38.

I have to save. It is a lot more friendly! If we look at what is

:23:38.:23:43.

coming up, we have got the discussion on the Budget coming up,

:23:43.:23:48.

and we have heard from Crawford Beveridge about the council tax. Do

:23:48.:23:56.

you think this phrase is sustainable,? I think we will have

:23:56.:24:00.

a situation where elections are coming up, the freeze has been

:24:00.:24:05.

geared towards those elections. Nobody wants to put tax up in

:24:05.:24:09.

advance of elections, but after that, councils will have very

:24:09.:24:13.

serious problems maintaining services, social care, education

:24:13.:24:21.

and so on. It will create a huge difficulties. Do you think people

:24:21.:24:31.
:24:31.:24:31.

will be willing to pay for about �1 a week for social services?

:24:31.:24:37.

problem is the people with the biggest houses are gaining the most.

:24:37.:24:41.

I don't know Airth Sir Fred could win still has his house in the

:24:42.:24:47.

Grange, but he would be a great beneficiary. But other people in my

:24:47.:24:55.

constituency would get nothing back. In that way, it is unfair. Should

:24:55.:25:03.

so Fred keep his knighthood? don't think so. I think he deserves

:25:03.:25:13.
:25:13.:25:14.

to have some pay back. Looking at it from the outside, do you think

:25:14.:25:21.

this is sustainable in the longer term? It was sustainable in the

:25:21.:25:26.

last Parliament when I was an MSP. It is a fully funded by the

:25:26.:25:31.

Scottish government to local councils. What has caused the

:25:31.:25:37.

problems is the Scottish Grand being cut by Westminster. We need

:25:37.:25:40.

to look at why social services are under pressure, and why people are

:25:41.:25:46.

losing their jobs and the public sector. That is not because of a

:25:46.:25:48.

council tax freeze, it is because the Scottish government does not

:25:48.:25:53.

have enough money any more, because that has been cut by Westminster.

:25:53.:25:59.

When you look at the no compulsory redundancies, all that happens, we

:25:59.:26:05.

are now told, it is a third this section of people go because they

:26:05.:26:09.

have chances to go elsewhere, and then what is left, there can be

:26:09.:26:15.

huge gaps in provisions if you are running that approach. Do you

:26:15.:26:20.

accept that these redundancies does not give us the best structure for

:26:20.:26:27.

providing public services? It is very important for the families

:26:27.:26:30.

throughout Scotland. You have to look at it why the Government is

:26:30.:26:34.

wanting to do this. We need to protect the families in the public

:26:34.:26:37.

sector to ensure at we are not saying people hit even harder by

:26:37.:26:42.

what is happening. People are going through difficult things with their

:26:42.:26:46.

families, and at this package does not go through, people would like

:26:46.:26:51.

to see that - they want to see the Government protecting people's jobs,

:26:51.:26:55.

they don't want to see the Government adding to unemployment.

:26:55.:27:00.

That is why it is such a critical issue for us. If we look at the

:27:00.:27:05.

referendum question, and the wider view on this, how are the different

:27:05.:27:09.

parties are playing this? I they appropriately representing the

:27:09.:27:19.
:27:19.:27:19.

views of the people? I think we are at just the start of the prose is.

:27:19.:27:27.

Might view is that Alex Salmond is a gambler. He wants to put forward

:27:27.:27:32.

the single question on independence, but he also wants a question in

:27:32.:27:38.

there third allows them to push a different issue forward. The fair

:27:38.:27:46.

thing to do is to have a simple referendum. Yes or no to

:27:46.:27:53.

independence. What Alex Salmond needs to do is explain to people

:27:53.:27:57.

what that means in terms of the constitutional status of Scotland,

:27:57.:28:02.

or what will happen in terms of currency, what happens to big

:28:02.:28:07.

companies like RBS and other companies in Scotland who, if they

:28:07.:28:17.
:28:17.:28:17.

were to remain Scottish, would need to be bailed out. These are big

:28:17.:28:22.

questions. Alex Salmond needs to explain the answers to those.

:28:22.:28:27.

Clegg is also saying that they know the questions, but not the answer

:28:27.:28:37.
:28:37.:28:38.

is. Is that there? No. I find it strange that it is fair to not ask

:28:38.:28:43.

the people a question. People want a government who listens to

:28:43.:28:49.

different opinions about there. The SNP have said their first option is

:28:49.:28:56.

independence. That is what I want as an individual. If there is a

:28:56.:29:00.

boys' of opinion about there that wants to see a different question,

:29:00.:29:06.

then surely you should see a government that listens to that. --

:29:06.:29:12.

voice of the opinion. I thought that was what democracy was about.

:29:12.:29:19.

It could be a union safety net as well? If you wanted to go down a

:29:19.:29:23.

route of debating how you extend devolution, there is a perfectly

:29:23.:29:31.

legitimate way to do that. You need to work your way through what that

:29:31.:29:37.

actually means. The problem is that Birt Alex Salmond is trying to tie

:29:37.:29:47.

it into his independence referendum. He has tried to have it both ways.

:29:47.:29:53.

Should there be an English Parliament? That is a question up

:29:53.:29:59.

to the English people themselves. I had we get an opportunity for the

:29:59.:30:09.
:30:09.:30:10.

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser with the latest political news with Shadow Business Secretary Chuka Umunna on Labour's plan for the economy and is it time to leave the European Court of Human Rights?


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