18/03/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland


18/03/2012

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser with the latest political news and debate. With guests John Cridland of the CBI, Sir Simon Jenkins of the National Trust, and Stephen Hammond MP.


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It is budget week which means that Westminster Mills get into

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overdrive. Will it be good by national rates. Will it be hollow

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tycoon tax? What can the Chancellor do to get the wheels of British

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And should we rebuilding more on England's green and pleasant land

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are should it be back to the drawing board with the Government's

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And on Sunday Politics Scotland, Nearly one in four young people in

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Scotland doesn't have a job. Will next Wednesday's budget do anything

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to help get them back to work? And we hear from Scotland's Special

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Envoy and HIV campaigner Annie Lennox. She tells us wealthy

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countries should stick to their aid promises if we want to avoid a

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1532 seconds

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That is a building permit system not a planning system. If you could

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show it was socially or environmental or economically

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viable, it would work. What about his.? The issue is there is

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complete disagreement about whether are not what Simon Hughes it has is

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in the document. We would have argued very strongly that all the

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protections that had previously been in place remain in place.

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why are you changing it? What we had was a complex system where

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there were 1000 pages of planning guidance down to 56. You say you

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are making it simpler, but you are not changing the principles it is

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based on? We are allowing neighbourhoods to have a greater

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say. We are ensuring that the land of the lowest environmental ball --

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environmental value is looked at. It is not any sustainable tried --

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type of environment. It meant that that it didn't make a profit? I am

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expecting the document to have changed. We consulted lawyers,

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everyone on this, it was going to be a lawyers' charter. Every

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planning application would be appealed against. It was a really

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bad system. I am hoping you are right this time. I am confident we

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are right this time. Can I answer the point that you have asked me to

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answer which was the first one. We are confident the war we had in the

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first place was not what Simon described. We were confident in

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what was there in terms of sustainable development. Do you

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think building should be taking place in existing towns or should

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it be in the countryside? I would like to see brownfield spaces in

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existing towns to be developed first. It talked-about lowest

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environmental amenity value. If you read the document... He has read it.

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Away have all read that first document. A none of us has read the

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new one. But she will soon have the chance. There is a commitment from

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us to have by the end of March which we will do. Away will hold

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you to that commitment. It is approaching 12:30pm. You are

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Good afternoon and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming

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upon the programme: The number of people who don't have jobs

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continues to spiral upwards. This week it up to 134,000. So how can

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we get Scotland back to work? Emil the Chancellor's budget are help or

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hinder? We will be talking to the Finance Secretary. Is the

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Government's promise of free education really the best package

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available in the UK? The Eurythmics singer and HIV

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activist Annie Lennox tells us which Western countries are not

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delivering on their life-saving promises. If we don't come met and

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sustain the kind of work that has been done, it will reverse and

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:31:06.:31:07.

tragically results will be possibly a kind of Cass atrophic thing. --

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catastrophic and should are near Shetland take advantage of the

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present constitutional wrangling and become independent from

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Scotland of a "yes" vote is successful?

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Good afternoon. This week, George Osborne wasn't -- George Osborne's

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budget has many challenges to address. Tackling unemployment is

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one of them, but it is a very important one. Last week, with the

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Scottish jobless figures rising yet again, we saw a summit aimed at

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tackling youth unemployment. But what can politicians do? Not just

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about the short-term, but the long- term challenge? Our business and

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economy editor, Douglas Fraser, has been asking how to get Scotland

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back to work, for a special programme to be broadcast tomorrow

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evening. If there are some jobs in Glasgow

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but getting them is not easy. Growing up, you always imagine to

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yourselves, I want to do this, I want to do that. You think it will

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be easy. I thought I am leaving school, I am going to get a job and

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I will work. Then you realise it is not that simple. It is really,

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really hard to get a job. In it is not just the downturn, with eight

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stalling. It is not clear that the job market offers prosperity. A few

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are talking about James, you would talk about having a lot of money, a

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family, a big car. The reality I can see myself with a normal job

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with a minimum wage. I might have one child and a council house.

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reason why youth unemployment matters so much is a lesson from a

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previous generation. This man is getting advice from the Wise Group.

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Decades later the consequence for his age group - repeat unemployment

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and low pay. I have been unemployed for 14 months and all I have been

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doing is going on the internet, looking for work and writing a way

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for jobs and not getting any replied. Joining different contract

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companies and getting told I am just a figure. Other than that,

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nothing. It make sure quite lazy. You think, what is the point of

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fawning. Ways to get back into the labour force requires adaptability.

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So on people say I need a job, any job. When you talk to them, you

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find out that Nate -- that may not be true. They may not be aware of

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this more or -- other recruitment procedures. We take them back to

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find a what they have to offer, what skills do they have, what are

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they looking far with no job?, men in particular suffer most. I would

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reckon that by the age of three, you have managed to get work in the

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future or you are a lost cause. It is simple things, do your parents

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talk to you? Do you respond. Do you know how to play with toys? Do you

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know how to play with friends? Do you resolve conflicts? In a

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hospitality industry those of skills are particularly important.

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This hotel chain based in Edinburgh with 800 employees takes the best

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candidates on the day and while it is controversial, many with the

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right skills come from Holland.. is hard to get the job. If you have

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got it, you always try your best. You tried -- Jong has tried to do

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the best. I am looking for somebody who are smart and well groomed. Who

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turns up on time if not before. I am looking for someone who smiles

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with a natural smile. Someone who can hold eye-contact. I am looking

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for some creativeness, a spark. How much of that spark should come

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from politics? This week in Dundee, Scotland's three years of

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Government joined forces with up those who may have answers. The

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politicians report has repeated the same mistakes, been too short-term

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and then people exposed. For people who have not got skills, you go

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through what the jobs are like in the JobCentre and you can see the

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employers do not at guaranteed to provide you West minimum wage.

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There is no guaranteed holiday. These are exploitative forms of

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employment which provides no protection at all. It is a disgrace.

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That report by Douglas Fraser. And his programme called 'Getting

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Scotland Back to Work' is broadcast on BBC Scotland tomorrow evening at

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10:35pm. I am joined now by the Finance

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Secretary John Swinney who is in our Dundee studio.

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Mr Swinney, the jobless total in Scotland is still on the rise.

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234,000 now. How much higher do you expected to go? What we're seeing

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with the unemployment position is a reflection of the difficult

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economic conditions that we face and the challenge for us to make

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sure that we take every step we can to address that so those economic

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conditions and that we use every available intervention we have to

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try to create employment of sit in Scotland. That has been the

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approach the Scottish Government has taken about her own

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responsibilities. It is also what we have encouraged the UK

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Government to do as approaches the budget as we look forward to next

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May. Do you expect that figure to follow any time soon? What we saw

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in the figures that came out last week was a slow -- slowing up Ben

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the increase of unemployment. I appreciate that situation is still

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very significant. That is a welcome indication that the scale of

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increase is slowing up, we may be looking at a more optimistic

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outlook. I think from the other surveys that have been published,

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particularly, the one on business attitudes, there is a growing level

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of confidence within the economy. If there is that, then that will

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help in the whole process of job creation and Scotland. The problem

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is that unemployment is a lagging indicator and as we can say, youth

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unemployment is just going to keep on rising. It is over 100,000 now

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and it could get much worse than that. Youth unemployment is serious.

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That is why the Scottish Government has taken the steps it has taken to

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a point as specific Minister dealing with youth unemployment. It

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is why we have put in place 25,000 modern apprenticeships to be

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supported in every year of this Parliamentary term. It is why we

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have given a guaranteed every 16 to 19-year-old that if they cannot

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find a job, we will make sure that they have got employment are

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training opportunity available to them. As a park funding for

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colleges? The college funding situation was given a boost just a

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few weeks ago. We are in a position to deliver that commitment to have

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a place for every 16 to 19-year-old in training or education. Does this

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weekend we have set out the level of funding they will go to six

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local authorities in Scotland which have particular difficulties in the

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field of youth unemployment. We will be supporting different

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projects a local level and complementing the work that the

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Government is taking forward. last point, funding some local

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authorities. It is only �9 million and it is only Glasgow and its

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surrounding local authority areas. Why are you only focusing a Glasgow

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and the surrounding areas? Is that because there is an election coming

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up? No There is an intensity of unemployment in these areas. If

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people argue that we should concentrate in the areas of most

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difficulty, we should do that. We should not be criticised on taking

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:39:39.:39:41.

a focused approach. But of course it is all part of a wider economic

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message where we are intent on making sure the Scottish economy

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:39:57.:39:59.

work -- economy grows. We look to work effectively across all areas

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of the economy to make the most of those particular opportunities.

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what you make of one of the measures that is being suggested as

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a possible budget measure to be announced on Wednesday by the

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Chancellor, the prospect of a freeze on public-sector pay in some

:40:17.:40:22.

parts of the UK? In parts of the UK where there is a lower cost of

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living, to try to persuade more people to get jobs and the private

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sector. Is that something you support? I think that is a generous

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way of describing what I have heard the Chancellor's proposal is

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rumoured to be. It is a reduction in pay for people in areas lie with

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the side that England. -- the South of England. That will be a

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disastrous approach if it is taken by the Chancellor because it will

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undermine economic confidence in areas far removed from the South

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East of England. It will do absolutely nothing to solve the

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regional inequities that exist within the UK. I think it is an

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indication of this is a fact that my counterparts in Wales and

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Northern island and is opposed to this as I am. Edgar sure measure of

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the potential disastrous impact this will have, not only on

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employment and renumeration but on public expenditure. Will you

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intervene to prevent that from having effect -- an effect in

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Scotland? I have made clear to the Treasury, both in writing and in

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person, my complete opposition to the approach they are taking a

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regional pay. If the United Kingdom Government is interested in taking

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their views of the devolved administration, they have not got a

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basis to what the poor -- the Chancellor has proposed.

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control �30 billion of public Scotland -- public spending in

:42:01.:42:05.

Scotland. You could top-up those salaries to negate the effect of

:42:05.:42:09.

that policy if it is announced. cannot intervene on pay rates which

:42:09.:42:15.

I have no control over. Let's be clear. The Scottish Government will

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go nowhere near this proposal for the areas and people that I said to

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be under control. When it comes to the day -- the UK Government

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responsibilities, regional pay would be damaging to individuals.

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It would be damaging to local economies and Scotland and to

:42:38.:42:45.

public expenditure in Scotland. We will oppose it.

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We are joined now by two party finance spokesman. In Edinburgh,

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Gavin Brown for the Scottish Conservatives, and here in Glasgow,

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Scotland's -- Scottish Labour's Ken Macintosh.

:43:03.:43:10.

Let me as Ken Macintosh about this measure. Knitted as a possible

:43:10.:43:14.

solution to the gap that exists between public sector and private

:43:14.:43:19.

sector employment in Scotland. Would you back that measure? No, I

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find myself in agreement with John Swinney. It is not just a bad

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measure. It is dangerous because it seems to be based on the premise

:43:30.:43:33.

that the public and the private sector are rival sectors, that

:43:33.:43:43.
:43:43.:43:45.

public sector... The private sector, we need the private sector to be

:43:45.:43:51.

dynamic. We need up public sector to be there to provide services and

:43:51.:43:54.

the two makar intertwined. And wages and the public sector are

:43:54.:43:58.

part of the dynamic of the spend in the private sector. They are

:43:58.:44:08.
:44:08.:44:20.

There was a quote in this is not -- is not an official Government

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policy. You should not very carefully, any change would have to

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be done extremely carefully to avoid some of the dangers that have

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been touched on by the two previous speakers. Ultimately, the cost of

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living in some parts of the country is different to the cost of living

:44:40.:44:44.

in other parts of the country. I think there is a degree of

:44:45.:44:49.

speculation in terms of what has been reported. In the meantime,

:44:49.:44:54.

calls for a change of direction from the Chancellor, calls for him

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to introduce a planned a plus or a plan B, call it what you like, to

:44:58.:45:02.

try and generate some growth. Do you agree with those calls or is it

:45:02.:45:08.

steady as she goes? This idea of the Scottish plan B is slightly

:45:08.:45:15.

absurd. Priority number one must be ensuring that we maintain their

:45:15.:45:19.

triple-A status for the United Kingdom. Any diminution of that,

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any drop of that could lead to enormous paws on interest

:45:26.:45:29.

repayments and damage the country and economy. On top of that, we

:45:29.:45:34.

must address unemployment, and in particular, youth unemployment and

:45:34.:45:38.

try and get a degree of growth back into our economy. I think we are

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helped slightly from across the Atlantic from the news from the

:45:42.:45:46.

United States, one of our key export markets. When the economy

:45:46.:45:51.

picks up, it tends to have some kind of positive effect. We do not

:45:51.:45:55.

necessarily follow exactly. Look to America and hope for the best? It

:45:55.:46:00.

does not sound like much of a strategy. No, but something like

:46:00.:46:06.

the use contract which was announced, 160,000 people from the

:46:06.:46:12.

ages of 18 and 24, that actually goes live in April so that was an

:46:12.:46:16.

ex-lover knighted at the time. It has not gone why get and so has not

:46:16.:46:23.

managed to have an impact at the time. Ken Macintosh, it is easy to

:46:23.:46:29.

talk about investment and trying to invest to create growth and jobs,

:46:29.:46:33.

but what we must create in Scotland is private sector jobs. To deal

:46:33.:46:36.

with the fact that the public sector is a shrinking just now.

:46:36.:46:42.

Labour have not been very good at doing that. We must treat both. I

:46:42.:46:45.

do not see the difference between the public and private sector in

:46:45.:46:52.

those terms. But they are distinct, surely? Yes, but I do not think

:46:52.:46:56.

they are interdependent. You cannot have private sector growth without

:46:56.:46:59.

a strong public sector. The major issue the moment with the Tory

:47:00.:47:03.

plans is that they are not delivering. Either in terms of pain

:47:03.:47:08.

down the deficit or in jobs and growth. What worries me is that

:47:08.:47:11.

they are fundamentally unfair. I do not quite understand what is

:47:11.:47:15.

happening with this Budget. People talk in the lead-up to the Budget

:47:16.:47:19.

seems to be about how much more we can attack the public sector and

:47:19.:47:24.

whether or not to get rid of a 50p tax rate on those earning over

:47:24.:47:28.

�150,000. We're talking about tried to protect the rich and poor will

:47:28.:47:31.

often society, where everyone else, those who would have been earning

:47:31.:47:37.

tax credits or gaining benefit or child benefits, and those on public

:47:37.:47:41.

sector pay are getting their pay frozen. Everyone at work on middle

:47:41.:47:45.

earnings are getting hammered. The Chancellor is concerned with those

:47:45.:47:49.

at the top of the plan is not working. Gavin Brown, will be are

:47:49.:47:53.

always in this together. Macintosh says he does not

:47:53.:47:56.

understand the Budget. I believe the main reason for that is that it

:47:56.:48:02.

has not happened bed. But the speculation about 50p tax... Very

:48:02.:48:06.

briefly, would you support the cut in a 50p tax rate? Would I

:48:06.:48:12.

supported? Personally, of course I would like to see it. I think there

:48:12.:48:15.

is something important psychologically... But that is not

:48:15.:48:20.

a priority, it cannot be a priority. I think there is a number of

:48:20.:48:24.

priorities, but in theory I would like to see it happen. The

:48:24.:48:26.

Chancellor has been quite clear that he is trying to help low and

:48:26.:48:30.

middle earners with this Budget, and that is his priority this time

:48:30.:48:37.

around. That is his priority, low and middle earners. If it was true

:48:37.:48:40.

that would certainly be what we want, but can I say that every

:48:40.:48:44.

single piece of speculation, and it is speculation, but every piece of

:48:44.:48:47.

speculation has been about protecting the better off and

:48:47.:48:50.

squeezing those in the middle. For example, those who are getting

:48:50.:48:56.

pension relief, those earning one had and �50,000 are getting pension

:48:56.:48:58.

relief. These are massive sums of money coming into the Treasury that

:48:58.:49:04.

could be used to protect working tax credits. -- are those on

:49:04.:49:08.

�150,000. The head or political steam has

:49:08.:49:13.

been building a road affordable childcare and nursery education.

:49:13.:49:15.

The First Minister grabbed headlines with a promise to

:49:15.:49:19.

increase free nursery provision. That may not take effect for

:49:19.:49:23.

several years. Meanwhile, an influential study has pointed out

:49:23.:49:28.

that costs and patchy provision of childcare here. Our correspondent

:49:28.:49:32.

reports now on the arguments as to whether Scotland is ahead of the

:49:32.:49:38.

tour were lagging behind. Children these days. If Mum and Dad

:49:38.:49:42.

had a job, a nursery place or some other form of childcare can make

:49:42.:49:47.

all the difference between juggling parenthood and work. For the

:49:47.:49:50.

Scotland's Government Ellie years plant aims to benefit children

:49:50.:49:55.

parents and the economy. At the SNP spring conference, one of Alex

:49:55.:50:00.

Allen's he promises was about nurseries. We will place into the

:50:01.:50:04.

new children spell at Parliament next year a statutory guarantee of

:50:04.:50:10.

over 600 hours of free nursery education for every Scottish three

:50:10.:50:20.
:50:20.:50:21.

and four-year-old. -- one of Alex Salmond's.

:50:21.:50:26.

A's -- for every Scottish three and four-year-old, and for every looked

:50:26.:50:31.

after two-year-old in her land. The best package of free nursery

:50:31.:50:35.

education on offer anywhere in the United Kingdom. A statement of

:50:35.:50:39.

faith and commitment for the future. Scotland is promising more than 600

:50:39.:50:43.

hours per year Frida save for all three and 40 old. How does that

:50:43.:50:49.

match up to the best of the United Kingdom? De annual hours in England

:50:49.:50:53.

Kingdom? De annual hours in England are 570. In Wales, there is a

:50:53.:50:55.

minimum of 380 hours, but some minimum of 380 hours, but some

:50:55.:51:00.

councils provide extra. In Northern Ireland, the figure varies between

:51:00.:51:04.

475 at 800 hours. The authorities there do not tend to fund more than

:51:04.:51:07.

there do not tend to fund more than one year. Alex Allen's promise on

:51:07.:51:12.

nursery owners went down well with the party faithful. It came up

:51:12.:51:17.

again at First Minister's question. A family's need action now. Not a

:51:18.:51:22.

clause in a children's bill, and not a two-year delay. Families do

:51:22.:51:26.

not just need legislation in the future, they need a Government now

:51:26.:51:29.

that will provide the funding to deliver reliable and affordable

:51:30.:51:35.

childcare when people need it. Glasgow, St Roch's childcare

:51:35.:51:40.

services takes in very young children. For their parents,

:51:40.:51:45.

finding affordable and flexible childcare is crucial. I know what

:51:45.:51:51.

I'm getting every month, so I am budgeted for that. So I know where

:51:51.:51:55.

I stand every month, but if I was to get a little bit more help, that

:51:55.:52:02.

would be easier. If it is expensive, the childcare. Sometimes I can't

:52:02.:52:07.

afford it. The issue has also been on the news. Here in Scotland,

:52:07.:52:11.

young families are pay more for childcare than almost anywhere in

:52:11.:52:15.

the UK. A survey from the charity the day-care Trust and children in

:52:15.:52:18.

Scotland found that prices here were on a par with the south-east

:52:18.:52:23.

of England, and there were huge gaps in provision. The charity's

:52:23.:52:26.

report was called the Scottish Child care lottery, and featured in

:52:26.:52:30.

the holidays debate led by the Liberal Democrats. These issues

:52:30.:52:34.

appear to be specific to Scotland and confirmed that any number of

:52:34.:52:38.

areas we lack behind the rest of the UK. This is worrying. For our

:52:38.:52:43.

children, high-quality healthcare including nursery care can be key

:52:43.:52:46.

to supporting their development. The Conservatives say the system in

:52:46.:52:50.

Scotland is not flexible enough. Instead of choice been about when

:52:51.:52:54.

and how to spend entitlement, it becomes a debate about whether to

:52:54.:52:59.

work or to have childcare. Actually, that has very serious consequences

:52:59.:53:05.

for some parents, particularly if they are on their own.

:53:05.:53:08.

Children's Minister announced plans to make the current scheme work

:53:08.:53:12.

better, and Lunn bustard welfare reforms brought in by the

:53:12.:53:18.

Government in Westminster. Across the country, parents wait delivery

:53:18.:53:23.

of the promise on childcare. It is due to start is to many -- journey

:53:23.:53:28.

through Parliament next year. Inner Edinburgh studio is Bronwen

:53:28.:53:33.

Cohen, chief executive of children in Scotland. Add in the studio we

:53:33.:53:38.

are joined by Professor Ron McWade, head of the Employment Institute at

:53:38.:53:42.

Edinburgh University. -- Professor Ron McQuaid.

:53:42.:53:46.

It is hard for families to balance work with family life, are there

:53:46.:53:50.

signs that some are finding it impossible? It is very hard, and I

:53:50.:53:55.

think that Scotland East to be much better than England and Wales. I

:53:55.:54:00.

think that it is the -- I think that the situation it now is in a

:54:00.:54:03.

worse place for parents than in England and Wales. I do think that

:54:03.:54:07.

we should be aspiring to do more than just try and be better than

:54:07.:54:12.

those elsewhere in the UK. We need to actually be addressing her very

:54:12.:54:18.

poor position in terms of Europe as a whole. These UK as a whole is

:54:18.:54:21.

failing miserably to meet the targets set ten years ago by the

:54:21.:54:28.

European Commission. It is for full-time places for more than 90%

:54:28.:54:32.

of three and four-year-olds. And for 33% of under three year old.

:54:32.:54:38.

The figures we are looking at in Scotland are 5% for under-threes

:54:38.:54:41.

and a quarter of three and four- year-old, if we are looking at

:54:41.:54:44.

full-time places. That makes it very hard for families. I beg your

:54:44.:54:49.

pardon, sorry to interrupt, but the effect, one McWade, is that woman

:54:49.:54:53.

stop working when they have children and do not return to the

:54:53.:54:59.

work for. -- Ron McQuaid. Many women work part-time, actually.

:54:59.:55:05.

Around 43% of women work part-time. That is half-a-million woman. Many

:55:05.:55:09.

of those return later as part time work or they read the work force

:55:09.:55:13.

altogether. But when they do return, often they did not reach the full

:55:13.:55:19.

potential Dessie had India Korea beforehand. We are bad at

:55:19.:55:25.

supporting people. -- potential of they had in India career. That is a

:55:25.:55:30.

brain drain, in effect? It is a huge brain-drain. The skills and

:55:30.:55:34.

experience of these people are not being used. If you are in your late

:55:34.:55:39.

30s, and you are -- and your children are grown-up and you are

:55:39.:55:43.

going into the labour force, you still have more than 30 years in

:55:43.:55:48.

the workforce ahead. Bronwen Cohen, in terms of specific measures to

:55:48.:55:53.

address this problem, Alex Salmond announced last year at 600 hours of

:55:53.:55:57.

free nursery care for each child, he will put it in law. It may take

:55:58.:56:03.

a few years until it comes into effect. What impact will that have?

:56:03.:56:07.

I am very pleased that the First Minister has decided to take a lead

:56:07.:56:12.

on addressing this issue, I believe the situation has gone worse. The

:56:12.:56:16.

benefits of investing in proper early years, they are not just a

:56:16.:56:21.

matter of for Education, they are not just a matter for employment.

:56:21.:56:24.

They call across the Scottish economy. That Scotland is going to

:56:24.:56:29.

actually achieved the aspirations that we set ourselves, then early

:56:29.:56:33.

years has a place in it. It is good that he is taking the lead on it,

:56:33.:56:37.

but what he must do is address the fragmentation, the fragmented

:56:37.:56:42.

approach we take to this. problem is that it is only a

:56:42.:56:46.

partial solution, isn't it? There is 16 hours three per week, but

:56:46.:56:50.

parents must pick up the tab for everything else if they want to

:56:50.:56:55.

work. Absolutely, because we insist on treating early education as

:56:55.:56:58.

something that is separate from the care that working parents require,

:56:58.:57:03.

but also the broader needs that children themselves have. We divide

:57:03.:57:08.

between overseas and under-threes, and we divide between education and

:57:08.:57:12.

health. We talk about childcare and then talk about pre-school

:57:12.:57:17.

education. The countries that have succeeded in addressing this, at

:57:17.:57:20.

all countries started at the same position, but the countries that

:57:20.:57:25.

have achieved it have done it by bringing together education and

:57:25.:57:28.

childcare, recognising the contribution to health and other

:57:28.:57:32.

areas. In the contribution -- in the context of your earlier story

:57:32.:57:37.

about the economy and budget, it is time that we recognise that

:57:37.:57:40.

investing in these services is not just a long-term matter, it is

:57:40.:57:43.

about achieving things in the longer term, I believe quite

:57:43.:57:47.

strongly that we must look at how we can galvanise the Scottish

:57:47.:57:50.

economy. The single biggest group of children living in poverty, the

:57:50.:57:54.

single biggest group of Scots living in poverty, our children

:57:54.:58:00.

under three. A quarter of children under three are in families living

:58:00.:58:04.

under the poverty threshold. What is the root out of that? Better

:58:04.:58:10.

services. Roman McWade, that sounds like a need for big Government. Is

:58:10.:58:16.

there an appetite for that kind of radical change? To provide that

:58:16.:58:19.

Billy here support to let women back into the workforce? I totally

:58:19.:58:23.

agree that we must have a much more joined up, much more comprehensive

:58:23.:58:27.

review of looking at not just nurseries, but childcare and

:58:27.:58:32.

support. It is not just about childcare, it is about tax and the

:58:32.:58:38.

pliability support. And other issues such as transport, which we

:58:38.:58:42.

need to provide a whole package for people to get back into work and to

:58:42.:58:48.

continue into work. Working for families did try to do that, around

:58:48.:58:53.

five years ago, in 2004 to 2008. There was �50 million spent by the

:58:53.:58:57.

Scottish Government one working families. It deliberately tried to

:58:57.:59:04.

integrate various types of childcare. OK, we are short of time,

:59:04.:59:09.

but problem:, one of the issues that this raises a is the role of

:59:09.:59:15.

state nurseries. -- Bronwen Cohen. At holidays, Easter and Christmas,

:59:15.:59:21.

children do not get the wrap around care that is needed. Should there,

:59:21.:59:25.

could there be a reform of that to help more women get back into work?

:59:25.:59:30.

You mean in terms of making greater use of schools? Absolutely.

:59:30.:59:33.

Countries that have achieved this have done it by making much more

:59:33.:59:37.

effective use of schools. It is not just a matter of more money, we

:59:37.:59:42.

should be making more effective use of money. Surveys show that these

:59:42.:59:46.

UK spent quite a lot by early years. Word has it: what to be achieved?

:59:46.:59:50.

What we are doing is funding poverty, funding fragmentation,

:59:50.:59:54.

because we do not have a grip on bringing together these areas

:59:54.:59:59.

benefits which extend beyond ending poverty. They extend beyond

:59:59.:00:04.

education, they moved into areas like greater creativity, what of

:00:04.:00:07.

research now shows the benefits that come in the longer term over

:00:07.:00:13.

the lifetime, not only in terms of health but in terms of education,

:00:13.:00:17.

creativity, employability. That is why I say it is an issue for the

:00:17.:00:21.

First Minister. The First Minister must take a grip of this. Whilst we

:00:22.:00:24.

are reduced to be much better than England and Wales, or we are now

:00:24.:00:29.

not so good and we need to actually move back and do something about it.

:00:29.:00:39.
:00:39.:00:39.

The multi-award-winning singer Annie Lennox was back in Scotland

:00:39.:00:45.

this week. She visited Holyrood to update them on a role as special

:00:46.:00:49.

and -- as special envoy to after car for the Commonwealth

:00:49.:00:53.

Parliamentary Association. Earlier in the year, she went to Mullaly

:00:53.:01:00.

with the Presiding Officer Alex Fergusson. We got up -- we cut up

:01:00.:01:03.

with her and began by asking if this was a critical moment in the

:01:03.:01:10.

battle against HIV and AIDS. Anyone who is representing any issue is

:01:10.:01:16.

now having to fight for this. So despite all of the tremendous

:01:16.:01:23.

progress that has been made over their last decade or so, if we

:01:23.:01:28.

don't come met and sustained the type of work that has been done, it

:01:28.:01:34.

will reverse. Tragically their results will be possibly a kind of

:01:34.:01:40.

catastrophic thing. And I think it would be really be a mess if we

:01:40.:01:45.

don't see through our Millennium development goals, we don't Ellice

:01:45.:01:50.

commit and sustained stay without gall and focus. From this has been

:01:50.:01:55.

made and some of them have not been followed on by some of the ones

:01:55.:01:59.

made by the richest countries in the world. -- promises. Companies

:01:59.:02:04.

like Germany, Japan. It is not paying its full share into the

:02:04.:02:10.

global fund. It must be frustrating for you? I think it is absolutely

:02:10.:02:14.

frustrating when one, when you have seen the background of the issues

:02:14.:02:19.

that one is representing, in terms of education, nutrition for

:02:19.:02:24.

children. In terms of women's rights and source of healthcare. It

:02:24.:02:30.

just goes right across the board. Here in Edinburgh when we were

:02:30.:02:33.

campaigning in the make cover to -- Make Poverty History campaign, also

:02:33.:02:37.

knew that this was not something that was going to happen overnight.

:02:37.:02:41.

Poverty will never be made history overnight. But what we can do is

:02:41.:02:46.

make consistent attempts to keep the issue on the agenda. And how do

:02:46.:02:50.

you persuade countries in the West, which have problems with money,

:02:50.:02:54.

where unemployment is on the rise, where they struggle to deal with

:02:54.:02:58.

poverty in their own backyard. How do you persuade them to give their

:02:58.:03:03.

money to solve problems, perhaps on the other side of the world?

:03:03.:03:08.

completely understand how people are not feel. But we live in

:03:08.:03:15.

wealthy circumstances. I am a very privileged person. I think Fermi,

:03:15.:03:21.

the issue is an ethical one. We spent three times more on bottled

:03:21.:03:25.

water than we do to international aid. We have to get it into

:03:25.:03:31.

perspective. In some ways we are getting less worried by HIV and

:03:31.:03:38.

AIDS in the West as anti- -- as drugs take hold. Less people are

:03:38.:03:46.

dying here. Here the problem is... In visible. That is the problem.

:03:46.:03:55.

When issues are basing a whole population, it is an emergency,

:03:55.:04:00.

then we want to respond because it is there on the front news. It is

:04:00.:04:06.

in the papers. With the issue of HIV, for example, there is a lot of

:04:06.:04:10.

stigma around it, a lot of silence around it. Even in the countries

:04:10.:04:14.

where people have been wiped out on a regular basis, people are

:04:14.:04:19.

hesitant to talk about HIV and AIDS because of the stigma. So part of

:04:19.:04:22.

the challenge for an active as like myself is to keep pushing, so that

:04:22.:04:27.

it stays on the agenda. When you hear that message about safe sex,

:04:28.:04:33.

one that has tremendous effect on the problem, there are still summon

:04:33.:04:37.

the West announce that message. You hear from the Catholic Church and

:04:37.:04:42.

the ball. He must despair when you hear that? I'm do despair. I here

:04:42.:04:52.
:04:52.:04:55.

and say what a nonce and it is. -- what a nonsense. A condom use, it

:04:56.:05:03.

is important. People get the contradictory message in a very

:05:03.:05:08.

powerful one coming from the Church, to say no, you should not use their

:05:08.:05:14.

condom. This is a nightmare. are here talking to the Scottish

:05:14.:05:18.

Government about a global struggle against a pandemic alert. But the

:05:18.:05:22.

focus here in Scholl and right now, if the political debate is

:05:22.:05:27.

dominated by a discussion on independence. -- in Scotland. Do

:05:27.:05:30.

you ever think to yourself this is navel-gazing. They should think our

:05:30.:05:36.

words. I understand, historically whether Scotland's days as part of

:05:36.:05:40.

the British Isles are is an independent country, is there not

:05:40.:05:47.

been thing for everyone. Life carries on as normal. In 30 years'

:05:47.:05:52.

time when we look back, when we were all saying will Scotland the

:05:52.:05:56.

Independent are not? This will be a critical time in their future for

:05:56.:06:01.

the people of Scotland. We will leave it there. Thank you.

:06:01.:06:05.

Annie Lennox there. Now should are near Shetland be allowed to remain

:06:05.:06:10.

part of the UK if the island's reject independence and the rest of

:06:10.:06:15.

Scotland falls far it in the referendum? A suggestion has come

:06:15.:06:19.

from both Lib Dem MPs for the Northern Isles, Tavish Scotland

:06:19.:06:23.

Liam McArthur. In the respond to the UK Government's referendum

:06:24.:06:27.

consultation, they are advocating enhanced powers for that islands

:06:27.:06:32.

including a different tax status within the UK. John Johnston

:06:32.:06:36.

reports. Shetland has considered itself

:06:36.:06:42.

different. It is proud to fly its own flag. It combines Scotland's

:06:42.:06:48.

national colours with an offset cross. Each year the community

:06:48.:06:55.

celebrates its Viking heritage. Many of Shetland's place names them

:06:55.:06:59.

from the old Norse language. Shetland has got a different

:06:59.:07:09.
:07:09.:07:10.

history. Shell and was once part of Scandinavia. But a period of

:07:10.:07:17.

prosperity, Shetland has got very interested in their north past. --

:07:17.:07:25.

Norse. The islands are best known for the fiddle music. There is also

:07:25.:07:35.
:07:35.:07:37.

assigned you will find anywhere else. The Shetland dialect. It is a

:07:37.:07:42.

dialect of Scots because we have been a part of Scotland for over

:07:42.:07:47.

500 years. But because of the 500 years before that we were part of

:07:47.:07:53.

Scandinavia, there are parts of the dialect which relate to Old Norse.

:07:53.:07:58.

But now the SNP's push for independence is reopening

:07:58.:08:03.

discussions about Scotland -- Shetland's constitutional position.

:08:03.:08:08.

We learn in the 70s when we took on central Government that we could do

:08:08.:08:12.

much better for the islands with our agreements with the oil

:08:12.:08:17.

companies. We have to look at that taper system again, a different

:08:17.:08:21.

system of taxation so we get cheaper fuel and cheaper transport.

:08:21.:08:28.

That is what will keep these islands a life. Afresh catch of

:08:28.:08:33.

crabs. Shetland was given the first regulated order and 2002 giving

:08:33.:08:39.

local fishermen the power to look after their own Inshaw fishery. The

:08:39.:08:46.

Island's she food industry is worth �320 million to their local economy.

:08:46.:08:52.

It has been a total disaster for the communities that depend on the

:08:52.:08:59.

fishery. What we need is regionalisation. That means

:08:59.:09:04.

listening to the fishermen, to the people, and to those who have to

:09:04.:09:11.

abide by the regulations. Tavish Scotland Liam McArthur say it is

:09:11.:09:14.

time to renegotiate their constitutional relationship between

:09:14.:09:18.

the Northern Isles and the Scottish mainland. They want to see more pub

:09:18.:09:23.

powers for the islands. To achieve that we need to have some political

:09:23.:09:27.

leverage. There needs that organisation that is pushing for

:09:27.:09:31.

autonomy. I do not see that here. To see their kind of things that

:09:31.:09:36.

have issues after, we have to be have to walk into Holyrood and to

:09:36.:09:41.

deal to say, we need to strike a deal here. I do not see us having

:09:41.:09:46.

any jets to put in front of the table. The Northern Isles adopted a

:09:47.:09:50.

different perspective and the 1970s on the constitutional debate from

:09:50.:09:56.

the rest of Scotland. There remains to be seen in 2014 what destination

:09:56.:10:00.

it decides on in this constitutional journey.

:10:00.:10:06.

Tavish Scott, the MSP for the Shetland Islands is with us now.

:10:06.:10:09.

Thanks for joining us. So of Scotland rose to become part

:10:09.:10:14.

Independent a few years far now, with that result be accepted in the

:10:14.:10:20.

Northern Isles? Who knows. The real point here is that instead of

:10:20.:10:25.

waiting to see what happens to us in the islands, Liam McArthur and I

:10:25.:10:29.

want to make sure there is a real debate about what we want on the

:10:29.:10:33.

governments of all scholar than the UK. Instead of just being seen as a

:10:33.:10:41.

box of the money first. We want to make sure we are seeing. -- Moray

:10:41.:10:51.
:10:51.:10:52.

firth. To be absolutely clear, is Scotland goes independent, Shetland

:10:53.:10:57.

and the Orkney Isles may not going dependent, would that be right?

:10:57.:11:01.

That is what we're trying to elicit from the submission that we have

:11:01.:11:06.

played to the UK Government's discussion documents. I am not

:11:07.:11:11.

convinced the people of Shetland will fall for Scott -- for

:11:11.:11:20.

independence. -- will vote for. I think there is a great opportunity

:11:20.:11:29.

for Orkney and Shetland to decide the path for us. To make sure that

:11:29.:11:36.

those responsibilities maintain our economy and culture. What status

:11:36.:11:43.

would you like to see the Northern Isles have? A more autonomy, more

:11:43.:11:47.

like the Isle of Man? What do you imagine? I do want to see more

:11:47.:11:52.

autonomy because what we have seen over the last five years as a

:11:52.:11:55.

centralising of powers to enter Edinburgh, the taking away of

:11:55.:11:59.

responsibilities from local people. I do not think that is good for the

:11:59.:12:09.
:12:09.:12:14.

islands at all. I want to devolve the powers to a local island so

:12:14.:12:18.

that we can take good decisions for the long-term interests of marine

:12:18.:12:23.

businesses, such as fishing and seafood businesses that depend on

:12:23.:12:28.

the sea far future. It is of the UK and I and another we would like to

:12:28.:12:32.

target in making a positive argument For Change they could

:12:32.:12:37.

astound -- strengthen our economy and identity. Should Glasgow,

:12:37.:12:43.

should Aberdeen have greater autonomy then? I am not the SNP for

:12:43.:12:52.

any other areas you have mentioned. -- MSP. In the past, the SNP did

:12:52.:12:56.

articulate a policy position of self-determination for the Northern

:12:56.:13:00.

Isles and I simply want to hold them to that. If their approach to

:13:00.:13:04.

the future of Scotland is based on oil and gas being part of the

:13:05.:13:10.

financial deal that would make Scotland Independent, that would

:13:10.:13:13.

allow Scotland to be independent, if it is a geographical share of

:13:13.:13:18.

gas and oil, Shetland and Orkney have a big stake and that as well.

:13:18.:13:22.

We have some pretty good chips to play and those are the ones the

:13:22.:13:27.

people of the island should decide on. You mention the Crown Estates,

:13:27.:13:32.

that is an uncontentious issue. But if you start arguing about a share

:13:32.:13:38.

of Scotland's oil, that is dynamite. Yes. And Mr Salmond deploys that

:13:38.:13:43.

argument. I think that what we want to observe from the Northern Isles

:13:43.:13:47.

is that if it is a good enough argument in Edinburgh, it is a good

:13:47.:13:52.

one incur work -- work well. We plan to use that in the discussion

:13:52.:13:58.

that will take place in that aspect of independence. Tavish Scott. I do

:13:58.:14:08.
:14:08.:14:09.

Now to the last of our special CDs looking at the council elections in

:14:09.:14:13.

May. We have looked at the beck for parties, but that is only part of

:14:14.:14:18.

the story. The introduction of proportional representation in

:14:18.:14:21.

local Government has led to a wider range of views being represented in

:14:21.:14:26.

council chambers around the land. Our correspondent has been talking

:14:26.:14:31.

to two councilors with contrasting perspectives. It begins to the

:14:31.:14:34.

Highlands, where not so long ago a bulk of cows was were not from a

:14:34.:14:40.

major party. -- a bulk of councillors were not

:14:40.:14:46.

from a major party. The Highlands. They'd spent part of

:14:46.:14:56.
:14:56.:15:00.

Scotland with a distinct way of Highland Council, too, is

:15:00.:15:05.

distinctive. It serves the largest geographical area of any council in

:15:05.:15:10.

the UK. Together, with some of the most Knut -- some of the most

:15:10.:15:14.

remote communities anywhere on the British mainland. Perhaps then it

:15:14.:15:20.

is no wonder that local politics here has a distinctive dimension.

:15:20.:15:24.

In much of the Highlands and Islands, There is a long tradition

:15:25.:15:28.

of independent counsellors standing on a platform divorced from normal

:15:28.:15:32.

party politics. As a general rule, proportional representation in

:15:32.:15:36.

council elections as felt independence and smaller parties.

:15:36.:15:39.

But even the Highlands proportion representation has actually helps

:15:39.:15:43.

the political parties and played a part in reducing the role of the

:15:43.:15:48.

independence. Sandy Park is about to retire as a

:15:48.:15:54.

councillor after some 18 years. He rose to become convenor and sought

:15:54.:15:59.

independence grow from a majority to the biggest minority. I have had

:15:59.:16:03.

a tremendous working relationship with the Scottish Government, one

:16:03.:16:07.

of the reasons is that I have been an independent councillor. I have

:16:07.:16:12.

had confidential conversations with the major Scottish Government

:16:12.:16:17.

officials and, indeed, from the First Minister to John Swinney, as

:16:17.:16:23.

they would not confide if I was a political member. I think the

:16:23.:16:26.

Independent councillor has that Bowness. By proportional

:16:26.:16:30.

representation did not just lead to more councillors from the political

:16:30.:16:33.

parties in the Highlands, it also means that each council ward in

:16:33.:16:38.

Scotland now has several councillors. I think a big plus in

:16:38.:16:44.

the past was that you had a ward and you council. Nowadays we have a

:16:44.:16:48.

multi-member wards. For councils represents the whole of Nairn. In

:16:48.:16:52.

the past you had your own ward and that was you really looking after

:16:52.:16:57.

that word. I think people really appreciated having one councillor

:16:57.:17:00.

for one ward. I feel really strongly about that. I think we

:17:00.:17:07.

should return to one word for one council. Edinburgh may share a

:17:07.:17:10.

little of the Highlands rugged landscape, but the effect of

:17:10.:17:13.

proportional representation here was more conventional. It helps the

:17:13.:17:19.

smaller parties. Thanks to PR, the Greens have a voice now. The creams

:17:19.:17:23.

got there first seats on the council in 2007. This councillor is

:17:23.:17:29.

now an MSP, too. I think it has been very important. All of those

:17:29.:17:32.

people who want a green voice representing them finally have that

:17:32.:17:37.

choice. I think that boys has been an effective and active one.

:17:37.:17:41.

Certainly, we are very proud of her contribution in Edinburgh. We

:17:41.:17:45.

simply have to look at the number of motions to have tabled an the

:17:45.:17:49.

questions he asked, the scrutiny be have applied to the decisions they

:17:49.:17:53.

administration has taken, be an effective. When the numbers in the

:17:53.:17:56.

Council has finally balas, it is easier for every grit in the

:17:56.:17:59.

council to have at least some influence. Everyone's voice is

:17:59.:18:03.

important. There is more discussion within the groups, and you can

:18:03.:18:07.

arrive at positions of consensus when possible, and certainly, we

:18:07.:18:11.

vote for issues on their merits. They have voted with different

:18:11.:18:19.

parties on different issues. That is a healthy thing. In the

:18:19.:18:23.

Highlands, supporters of PR always argued that it could change the

:18:23.:18:28.

landscape of councils. Nobody would dispute that has happened, even if

:18:28.:18:34.

some, they believe, not all change has been for the better.

:18:34.:18:39.

Our correspondent, Jamie McIver. He is the lunchtime news.

:18:39.:18:43.

Thank you. Good afternoon. Scotland's Finance Secretary has

:18:43.:18:47.

said that UK Government plans to scrap national pay rates in

:18:47.:18:50.

discreet's budget would be disastrous. The Chancellor is

:18:50.:18:54.

expected to say that civil servants should have paid brought in line

:18:54.:18:57.

with private sector salaries in their regions. John Swinney claims

:18:57.:19:01.

it would be damaging for individuals, local economies and

:19:01.:19:05.

public expenditure in Scotland. The Scottish Conservatives have

:19:05.:19:09.

announced that they are starting a new campaign group to fight for the

:19:09.:19:13.

union. Conservative friends of the union will be watched by the party

:19:13.:19:17.

leader at the conference entrain at the end of the week. Ruth Davidson

:19:17.:19:21.

said that CFU would be a home for all Scots who want to stay in the

:19:21.:19:24.

unions. Scotland's Public Health Minister

:19:24.:19:30.

wants adverts for food which it is high in fat and salt to not be

:19:30.:19:34.

broadcast before the 9pm watershed. Michael Matheson has written to the

:19:34.:19:37.

Westminster Government to ask if they would support a ban across the

:19:37.:19:42.

UK. Ministers say, however, that the current rules for TV

:19:42.:19:46.

advertising are proportional and balanced. Mr Matson disagrees.

:19:46.:19:49.

Existing arrangements through of, are not working in the way through

:19:49.:19:54.

which they were intended. The best way to deal with this is to have a

:19:54.:19:58.

pre-watershed band so that these types of products cannot be

:19:58.:20:02.

advertised by a to 9pm. Game doing so, we can reduce the exposure that

:20:02.:20:05.

young people have to this type of young people have to this type of

:20:05.:20:10.

advertising. And now the weather. Are very much like yesterday, we

:20:10.:20:13.

are looking at a lot of dry and fine weather across the country. We

:20:14.:20:17.

are almost see wall-to-wall sunshine and it will stay that way

:20:17.:20:21.

for the rest of the day. The best of the sunshine will be across this

:20:21.:20:25.

north-east corner, but nearly everyone will see the sun. We will

:20:25.:20:30.

continue to see shivers across the northern isles. There will be high

:20:30.:20:34.

temperatures of around 11 degrees in this north-east corner. Quite a

:20:34.:20:38.

fresh north-westerly wind in the north, but later went inland.

:20:38.:20:42.

That is it for now, our next That is it for now, our next

:20:42.:20:48.

bulletin is at 6:50pm. Any moment, we will be discussing

:20:48.:20:52.

the big events coming up this week. First let's take a look back at the

:20:52.:21:02.
:21:02.:21:05.

A new law introducing a minimum unit price for a call passed its

:21:05.:21:15.
:21:15.:21:16.

first major parliamentary hurdle by 86 votes 2-0, Labour abstained.

:21:16.:21:19.

The Provost of Perth and Kinross was among those celebrating the new

:21:19.:21:23.

status it has as a city. The number of Scots out of work

:21:23.:21:29.

rose by 6,000 this month, taking the total to 234,000.

:21:29.:21:33.

The UK Government's First National Convention on youth unemployment

:21:33.:21:38.

took place in Dundee. The work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan

:21:38.:21:43.

Smith explained why it was needed. It is matching young people to the

:21:44.:21:48.

jobs that their experience and capabilities. If we do that, we

:21:48.:21:52.

will see the level of youth unemployment fall. David Gilroy was

:21:52.:21:57.

found guilty of killing his former lover. She disappeared on her way

:21:57.:22:05.

to work in the centre of Edinburgh in the 2010.

:22:05.:22:08.

This week, everyone will be keeping their eye on the breadbox on its

:22:09.:22:15.

way to the despatch box. -- cornet d'Or red box.

:22:15.:22:20.

And with any to look towards the budget is Lucy Adams from the

:22:20.:22:25.

Herald newspaper and in Edinburgh, the Telegraph's and Cochrane.

:22:25.:22:30.

We see Adams, all eyes on the budget? What can we expect? I think

:22:30.:22:34.

we know from some of the information that has been casually

:22:34.:22:37.

and leaked to newspapers that we are looking at a big argument about

:22:37.:22:41.

public sector pay in terms of variations across the country. As

:22:42.:22:46.

John Swinney said earlier, it is quite alarming in terms of the

:22:46.:22:50.

impact it could have, in terms of the divide we already have in the

:22:50.:22:54.

north and south of the country. We have also been falling over the

:22:54.:22:58.

past few weeks the row about whether the 50% rate of tax for

:22:58.:23:05.

those earning �150,000 or more will stay or cold. If it does go, what

:23:05.:23:08.

will feel at Dems get from that? Will they have their mansion tax,

:23:08.:23:12.

as Vince Cable talked about? Or will we have Nick Clegg's tycoon

:23:12.:23:17.

tax, of which we have seen almost no details whatsoever. Those are

:23:18.:23:23.

the king fairly unlikely. It is a good question, Alan Cochrane, what

:23:23.:23:26.

will the Liberal Democrats get out of this Budget, if anything? We see

:23:26.:23:29.

a whole range of measures being proposed quite clearly by the

:23:30.:23:33.

Conservatives. At the Lib Dems getting anything but the scraps

:23:33.:23:38.

from the table? The Liberal Democrats are apparently fairly

:23:38.:23:42.

relaxed of the 50p then, provided it gets them a big sledgehammer to

:23:42.:23:47.

whack the rich on tax avoidance. I think on the business of public

:23:47.:23:51.

sector pay differentials throughout the UK, they are probably going to

:23:52.:23:56.

go along with that as well. It is not about punishing civil servants

:23:56.:24:01.

in Scotland or the North of England, it is about helping private

:24:01.:24:06.

employers to recruit people. Currently, just in my industry, the

:24:06.:24:09.

newspaper industry, I know lots of young reporters in Scotland have

:24:10.:24:14.

gone to work for the Government as press officers, civil servant press

:24:14.:24:18.

officers. He would not go and be a press officer for the excitement,

:24:18.:24:22.

as you go for the extra money. That is what is happening, you are

:24:22.:24:25.

getting more working in St Andrew's House as a press officer and you

:24:25.:24:30.

getting working for the Herald. That is just my industry, that is

:24:30.:24:34.

happening all over British industry. The private sector cannot complete

:24:34.:24:38.

with public's -- cannot compete with public sector pay. You can

:24:38.:24:43.

make that argument, C Adams, but it will not necessarily play with a

:24:43.:24:48.

Scotland that has a very high level of public sector employment.

:24:48.:24:51.

Absolutely, and it can only exacerbate the difference is there

:24:51.:24:54.

already are in terms of the South East and places like Scotland. I

:24:54.:24:58.

feel as well that this is a massive distraction. In a week where he

:24:59.:25:03.

will find it difficult to explain the lack of growth, the huge levels

:25:03.:25:09.

of debt that the country is still in. And the fact that he has

:25:09.:25:13.

nothing exciting to throw out there. This seems to me like a massive

:25:13.:25:17.

distraction. He knows there will be a huge row about this for the rest

:25:17.:25:21.

of the week, and Scotland will be extraordinarily unhappy. We had a

:25:21.:25:24.

huge number of people working within the public sector who will

:25:24.:25:29.

not take this lying down. problem, Alan Cochrane, as the

:25:29.:25:33.

Government tries to pursue the so- called respected gender, as it

:25:33.:25:36.

tries to connect with Scott on the head of an independence referendum,

:25:37.:25:41.

this sort of measure would appear to be going up the drawbridge

:25:41.:25:50.

around the south-east of England? That is bladders. It is not a

:25:50.:25:54.

protecting London or the south-east, it is about helping, Lucy talks

:25:54.:25:58.

about growth quite rightly, it is about helping growth in the private

:25:58.:26:01.

sector and stimulating growth in the private sector by getting

:26:01.:26:05.

people into work in the private sector. The public sector is big in

:26:05.:26:09.

Scotland and of course Scotland will be unhappy. Scotland tends to

:26:09.:26:13.

be unhappy about the public sector about everything. But this is a

:26:13.:26:18.

positive move. It is about helping kids work in the private sector and

:26:18.:26:22.

not the public sector. Lucy Adams, there is growing concern about

:26:22.:26:26.

unemployment. The rate rises and rises. The Chancellor is under

:26:26.:26:31.

pressure to do something. To try and stimulate growth. And by

:26:32.:26:35.

stimulating growth complicating a few jobs. What options are open to

:26:35.:26:40.

head? Are there any easy option scheme at because of the lack of

:26:40.:26:45.

growth, there does not seem to be any easy options. Unemployment is

:26:45.:26:50.

at the 16 year high. What we have seen are some very side issues,

:26:50.:26:54.

some very contentious things about people working for free in

:26:54.:26:57.

supermarkets and people try to build up work experience without

:26:57.:27:01.

getting paid whatsoever. The UK Government has talked about plants

:27:01.:27:06.

that they have for John people in investment, to put into young

:27:06.:27:10.

people, but all that seems very paltry in contrast to the lack of

:27:10.:27:15.

jobs. And the lack of aspirations as well for young people coming out

:27:15.:27:19.

of any kind of education, whether it is university or otherwise, as

:27:19.:27:23.

we have an enormous amount of examples of people who are very

:27:23.:27:28.

well educated but simply cannot find a job. Therein lies the

:27:28.:27:32.

challenge, Alan Cochrane, to create jobs. It is a difficult thing for

:27:32.:27:36.

any Government to do. Government cannot create jobs, they

:27:36.:27:40.

can only create the conditions for jobs. What they're trying to do is

:27:40.:27:43.

create conditions for kids to go into the private sector and get

:27:43.:27:48.

jobs. Was he is right, there is a huge problem with youth

:27:49.:27:53.

unemployment. She has also read, many educated people are coming out

:27:53.:27:57.

of university and cannot get a job. But Abbey educated in things that

:27:57.:28:04.

employers want them to be educated in? -- but are to be educated. Lucy

:28:04.:28:08.

is absolutely right, the pay differential thing will not be the

:28:08.:28:12.

main thing in the Budget, that is probably going to be a long weeks

:28:12.:28:15.

time. But it will not affect what the workers in the public sector in

:28:15.:28:20.

Scotland. It will not affect teachers or nurses, in both of

:28:20.:28:27.

those cases, the wage rates are set in Scotland. The horse-trading that

:28:27.:28:31.

has been going on his the first time that we have seen this in

:28:31.:28:34.

public, were the two sides of the Cabinet are hard to do with one

:28:34.:28:38.

another in public about how the am going to do a deal with one another.

:28:38.:28:41.

We have never seen this before because we have never had a

:28:41.:28:44.

coalition Government. It is fascinating, because in the past,

:28:44.:28:48.

when Gordon Brown was Chancellor, he told the Cabinet on the morning

:28:48.:28:52.

of the Budget what was in it, he did not tell them before. Margaret

:28:52.:28:57.

Thatcher and Geoffrey Howe did not tell the Cabinet because they

:28:57.:29:02.

thought they would like it. But now we have a rough idea what the two

:29:02.:29:06.

sides fought and died rough idea what people get. Lucy Adams, it is

:29:06.:29:13.

an extraordinary lead-up to this. We have had so many weeks, be have

:29:13.:29:16.

had to Vince Cable's letter criticising the lack of vision,

:29:17.:29:21.

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser with the latest political news and debate.

Andrew Neil interviews John Cridland, Chairman of the CBI on what businesses want from Wednesdays Budget. Sir Simon Jenkins, Chairman of the National Trust, and Stephen Hammond MP go head to head over the Government's plans to change planning laws affecting the countryside.


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