27/05/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland


27/05/2012

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser with the latest political news, interviews and debate, including shadow business secretary Chuka Umunna.


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She the shadow business Secretary joins us for the Sunday interview.

:01:01.:01:06.

Last night, Britain's cast their vote and had their say on Europe.

:01:06.:01:10.

Could be soon be voting on a more profound issue one who should be

:01:10.:01:13.

winning the Eurovision Song Contest? Namely, whether Britain

:01:13.:01:18.

should leave the European Union altogether. They form at the Europe

:01:18.:01:22.

Minister and the UK leader go head to head. Whether it is time to stay

:01:22.:01:31.

in the Eurovision or walk away from And on Sunday Politics Scotland,

:01:31.:01:34.

the Yes campaign is up and running as Alex Salmond seeks to sign up

:01:34.:01:38.

one million Scots to take part in his independence crusade. Will it

:01:38.:01:48.
:01:48.:01:48.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1514 seconds

:01:48.:27:02.

chime with the public, or strike a You cannot be so unpleasant about

:27:02.:27:06.

foreigners in Britain and immigrants in Britain and then say,

:27:06.:27:09.

off we would like to increase trade with these other countries. You

:27:09.:27:13.

cannot be open for business and closed to foreigners. That is UK

:27:13.:27:18.

policy. The UK policy is that we cannot have open-door immigration,

:27:18.:27:25.

and at a time of recession, which we have now... Speaking of the UK

:27:25.:27:31.

referendum, isn't it the fact or that he might get his way? De

:27:31.:27:35.

Eurozone may become more tightly integrated, and we will not become

:27:35.:27:40.

part of that. We will be on the outside. We will be more martial is,

:27:40.:27:46.

except that. You can have an end or out referendum, we can these these

:27:46.:27:52.

you'd hands what would change? what would we lose? We would lose

:27:52.:27:56.

the position that we have gained over a could choose years of being

:27:56.:27:59.

in there fighting as hard as we can to maintain open and liberal

:27:59.:28:05.

policies. For example, when mad-cow disease struck and our beef was

:28:05.:28:10.

absolutely safe, the European Union where one of the only places that

:28:10.:28:16.

would accept it, Hong Kong, or colony, said, British beef, you

:28:16.:28:22.

must be joking. We can be flippant about our agricultural industry, it

:28:22.:28:27.

is important for her farmers that they can export. If we are outside

:28:27.:28:31.

the European Union, then exports would come to a juddering halt.

:28:31.:28:36.

Shouldn't we renegotiate and put that to the people, rather than in

:28:36.:28:39.

or out? People would like to know the Thames. There could be

:28:39.:28:42.

different terms under which we could stay in. We have tried to

:28:42.:28:46.

renegotiate for many years now. I have come to the conclusion that

:28:46.:28:51.

this is on the form a ball. If we go back to a referendum, the last

:28:51.:28:58.

time we had a referendum on this many people voted, but the likes of

:28:58.:29:05.

me, I was not even a twinkle in my mother's eye. Yes or no, who would

:29:05.:29:09.

win? I think if face with isolating ourselves completely from the

:29:09.:29:14.

business community, even some of the offshore owned press, would say

:29:14.:29:20.

that this is insanity. For a referendum, will be would stay.

:29:20.:29:24.

think we would come out. I think the British people are of that

:29:24.:29:34.
:29:34.:29:38.

belief at the moment. To Gentleman, Good morning and welcome to Sunday

:29:38.:29:43.

Politics Scotland. Coming up: they're off! Only another 2.5 years

:29:43.:29:48.

to go. As the Yes campaign watches, we ask what are the details that

:29:48.:29:52.

will help you make up your mind? The Scottish Secretary Michael

:29:52.:29:56.

Moore will give you his take on events, and the SNP's Stewart Hosie

:29:56.:30:00.

will encourage you to sign the declaration.

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And hopelessly devoted to you, get it? Sorry. You will hear other

:30:06.:30:11.

options for greater powers. And I am going to Dublin to find out the

:30:11.:30:15.

impact that the economic downturn is having on Scotland's councils

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stop what have you seen at the movies this week?

:30:18.:30:23.

Here at the Sunday Politics be taking the latest instalment in a

:30:23.:30:26.

long-running drama. Critics have had mixed reactions, but fans

:30:26.:30:30.

believe it is the start of something special. Producers are do

:30:30.:30:35.

not expect an Oscar. We gave our correspondent a few quid and told

:30:35.:30:45.
:30:45.:30:56.

It is a rather surreal Friday morning at the movies. The cinema

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here at Fenton breeches pretty packed, there are around 20 minutes

:31:01.:31:07.

to go until the big launch and anticipation is growing. The hosts,

:31:07.:31:11.

Marton Compston, said that the main man at Sean Connery was not there.

:31:11.:31:16.

He read out a statement that left the audience a little deflated.

:31:16.:31:22.

Then the other main man appeared with this. When we entered the

:31:22.:31:27.

referendum campaign in autumn 2014, our intention is to have one

:31:27.:31:30.

million Scots having signed the independence for Scotland

:31:30.:31:36.

declaration. Quite what you are signing up for in an independent

:31:36.:31:40.

Scotland is unclear. What followed has been called a bizarre mixture

:31:40.:31:50.
:31:50.:31:51.

The cast of characters are anchored in Scottish culture and politics

:31:51.:31:55.

gave what they hoped were convincing performances. Echoing

:31:55.:31:59.

the main theme of essentially, let Scots decide their own future as

:31:59.:32:02.

Westminster does not have the foggiest.

:32:02.:32:06.

One SNP strategist says he wanted the ones to take place in a cinema

:32:06.:32:10.

because it is where real people go, and it is a that people and not

:32:10.:32:14.

politicians. The audience in the auditorium were very enthusiastic,

:32:14.:32:19.

but they now have a task in hand, an almost evangelical one, to

:32:19.:32:24.

convince the unconvinced. So the heat is on, but some

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surprise at what has been called a watch to the left. Those enjoying

:32:28.:32:32.

the sun in Glasgow give their reaction. Would you vote yes to an

:32:32.:32:38.

independent Scotland? I think I would. Definitely. In the pen and

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Scotland. I would need to read up on it more. I am not sure. Know. I

:32:47.:32:54.

just do not think it would be a good thing. Mixed reviews in the

:32:54.:33:00.

newspapers, the lack of detail and early lot coming in for criticism.

:33:00.:33:04.

The rush matters, but it is more about content, substance and

:33:04.:33:09.

strategy, or rather the lack of strategy. It has emerged that all

:33:09.:33:14.

political parties kind of arrogant, they believe their own propaganda.

:33:14.:33:17.

They believe their own hype and believe they are bright and

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brilliant. It is a naive and enlightened arrogance.

:33:24.:33:31.

surprisingly, the Unionists did not give this feature many stars either.

:33:31.:33:34.

Scotland England's Ireland and Wales, will be all stand tall as it

:33:34.:33:38.

individual nations but there is a thread that binds us together. I

:33:38.:33:42.

believe in the United Kingdom, I believe Scotland is a great country

:33:42.:33:46.

but is better in the United Kingdom. Another argument is that there

:33:46.:33:48.

simply is not the support for independence according to polling

:33:48.:33:55.

evidence. The response? Lazy thinking. I except that we have

:33:55.:33:59.

ground to make up, and that is exactly why we are having this

:33:59.:34:02.

campaign over the next few years. It will be interesting to see what

:34:02.:34:06.

the talking heads in Westminster took it the next Paul shows

:34:06.:34:14.

independence support shifting upwards. They are so complacent.

:34:14.:34:17.

that is the main feature over. Brace yourself for a sequel and

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stand by for the new release. The pro-union campaign. Probably not

:34:22.:34:29.

appearing in a cinema near you. Joining me now in her Edinburgh

:34:29.:34:36.

studio is Michael Moore, good morning Mr Moore. Good morning.

:34:36.:34:39.

central message from the Capital Bond was that the people best

:34:39.:34:44.

placed to make decisions for Scotland are the people who

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actually live here. You cannot disagree with that, can you? I am

:34:50.:34:53.

delighted that we have the campaign underway, be have the biggest

:34:53.:34:58.

decision in 300 years facing all of us who live here in Scotland. I

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think this will come down to a simple proposition, that we are

:35:02.:35:07.

stronger as part of the United Kingdom and weaker apart. Came just

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the vox pops that featured in to report, he saw the range of views

:35:11.:35:15.

and doubts that people have. I think that comes from thinking

:35:16.:35:19.

through what is best for us in Scotland at what will go was the

:35:19.:35:24.

strongest economy and make us more secure in the world. I think what

:35:24.:35:29.

matters is that we have the modern Scotland within the United Kingdom

:35:29.:35:32.

and that we do take the key decisions here at home in Scotland,

:35:32.:35:38.

but are part of the United Kingdom taking bigger decisions together.

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Don't those key decisions feature, what our taxes should be, what a

:35:42.:35:45.

welfare should be and what kind of society we should have? Shouldn't

:35:45.:35:50.

they be in the hands of people living in Scotland? That is the

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choice that people will have to take. When I talk to people around

:35:54.:35:58.

the country, and the like the fact that their pensions are secured

:35:58.:36:03.

with and the strength of the United Kingdom as a whole. There is a

:36:03.:36:07.

furnace across the United Kingdom to which they can attach themselves.

:36:07.:36:10.

They like the fact that Scottish businesses do not have to worry

:36:10.:36:14.

about differences in how we do things in Scotland at the best of

:36:14.:36:17.

the United Kingdom, her biggest market for goods and services.

:36:17.:36:22.

Their jobs are more secure, the Investment more likely. When it

:36:22.:36:24.

comes to keep things like International Development and what

:36:24.:36:29.

we do to help the poorest in the world, what we do to help Scottish

:36:29.:36:32.

fishermen and farmers have cloud in Europe, being part of the United

:36:32.:36:38.

Kingdom is good for Scotland. The positive reasons for being in the

:36:38.:36:42.

United Kingdom will secure the right outcome for the referendum.

:36:42.:36:48.

When will the no campaign launch? We are already engaged in debate

:36:48.:36:56.

and are delighted that we already have opinions from those who all

:36:56.:36:58.

ready of want Scotland to be independent. We will see the cross-

:36:58.:37:03.

party group watched before too long. Already, significant voices like

:37:03.:37:07.

that of former Chancellor Alastair Darling are part of that campaign.

:37:07.:37:11.

We have a while to go and there will be plenty of time for all the

:37:11.:37:15.

details and dates to a reworks the. You see the formal campaign will

:37:15.:37:20.

begin soon, but when will it begin? That is not a matter for me as a

:37:20.:37:28.

Government minister dot back but you will be part of that? I have a

:37:28.:37:34.

diary, I will fill it in! cross-party group will make that

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plain a very soon. We will go across the parties and we will have

:37:39.:37:43.

people across Scotland, from all walks of life. I thought it was

:37:43.:37:47.

significant this week that we saw precious little from the business

:37:47.:37:51.

community supporting the Independent's campaign. It is

:37:51.:37:54.

people the length and breadth of the country that will determine

:37:54.:38:01.

this, whatever their walk of life. You talk about a positive campaign

:38:01.:38:04.

for the union, and you talk about being cross-party with people like

:38:04.:38:08.

Alastair Darling been involved, but he was speaking on Friday not a

:38:08.:38:12.

pretty positive message but actually warning of the dangers of

:38:12.:38:16.

independence in his view for the Scottish economy. How frustrating

:38:16.:38:18.

is that Ford you that there are lots of scare stories going around

:38:18.:38:27.

about Scotland? The important point here is that we ask all the great

:38:27.:38:31.

questions. Every business person I speak to add that everyone I speak

:38:31.:38:34.

to in factories the length and breadth of the country asks

:38:34.:38:38.

questions about what will happen to a currency, what will happen to her

:38:38.:38:42.

interest rates? Wendy Shea suggested that we will still be

:38:42.:38:45.

part of the sterling and still be linked to the back of England and

:38:45.:38:51.

that nothing much will change, they are very doubtful about that. They

:38:51.:38:56.

ask, what kind of independence is this? Can be be way be influential

:38:56.:38:59.

when we are outside of the parliament were all the key

:38:59.:39:03.

decisions are taken? It is important that we focus on these

:39:03.:39:06.

questions as well as reminding people of the great strengths we

:39:06.:39:12.

have as part of the United Kingdom. Can we be certain that the United

:39:12.:39:20.

Kingdom Government did not object to the timetable of 2014 gym --?

:39:20.:39:24.

have said before that we do not see the timing as a barrier to the

:39:24.:39:30.

referendum. So we can all settle down to a referendum in the autumn

:39:30.:39:36.

of 2014? It is important that people are examining issues that

:39:36.:39:41.

affect us as Scots in our daily lives. We want clarity and a fair,

:39:42.:39:47.

legal and decisive referendum. That is why I want to meet with the

:39:47.:39:50.

First Minister and have a proper, full-blooded debate about the

:39:50.:39:56.

future of our country. Will we have you in the studio, I believe the

:39:56.:39:59.

Ministry of Defence are announcing today the sale of the former RAF

:39:59.:40:04.

base at Machrihanish, what are you doing there and what impact will it

:40:04.:40:09.

have in the local community? I met with the local community groups

:40:09.:40:13.

just over a year ago and they are working -- they have been working

:40:13.:40:18.

very hard for a long time to get poorer shape of Machrihanish, and I

:40:18.:40:26.

am delighted that they are using a right to ownership. -- to get

:40:26.:40:31.

proper ownership. They will take over a huge asset and make sure it

:40:31.:40:36.

works for the local community and help to rebuild the local economy.

:40:36.:40:41.

Scottish Secretary Michael Moore, thank you for joining us.

:40:41.:40:45.

And in her other studio is the SNP's treasury spokesperson Stewart

:40:45.:40:48.

Hosie. Are you impressed with the positive campaign from your

:40:48.:40:56.

opponents? I thought that Michael was funny at the end there, he now

:40:56.:41:00.

wants to discuss the detail and not the nitty gritty of the no campaign.

:41:00.:41:04.

All they have done before he has his pick fights over the referendum

:41:04.:41:08.

process, I am pleased that we now have a agreement on the date and

:41:08.:41:13.

other mechanics. In terms of the detail, that was a criticism of the

:41:13.:41:18.

lodge on Friday, Jihad music and song and poetry and auditoria, but

:41:18.:41:23.

there was no great detail about what would happen if Scotland voted

:41:23.:41:33.
:41:33.:41:34.

for independence. -- you had music and song. It will be in 2014, as it

:41:34.:41:40.

-- and this is important because it gives people the best part probably

:41:40.:41:45.

easier to realise the importance of what they are voting on. Issues

:41:45.:41:50.

like the Queen as head of state, being in the European Union and the

:41:50.:41:55.

sterling as the currency. Then there is the policy standpoint, the

:41:55.:41:59.

decisions that the Parliament takes. They are a matter for 2016 and then

:41:59.:42:03.

after. If we win the referendum, there will be elections to the

:42:03.:42:07.

Scottish Parliament in 2016 had people can then choose if they want

:42:07.:42:11.

the social democratic model of the SNP, a green model, a socialist

:42:11.:42:15.

model or a combination of models. That is what happens in elections

:42:15.:42:20.

in every other country and it will happen in Scotland as well.

:42:20.:42:25.

mentioned a few other policy areas, some debate in recent days about

:42:25.:42:31.

your policy on a NATO. Can you confirm that if there is an

:42:31.:42:36.

independent Scotland in the May election, will be SNP's policy

:42:36.:42:39.

going to that election be that you will not become a member of NATO?

:42:39.:42:43.

The party policy breaks now is that the Brits eat to leave NATO. I have

:42:43.:42:48.

not seen anything that would imply that we would seek to change that.

:42:48.:42:53.

In terms of other details, there will be a gap in the lot of the Yes

:42:53.:42:57.

campaign this month and the White Paper, how much of a danger is

:42:57.:43:02.

there as an SNP member that you now have these other voices? We heard

:43:03.:43:07.

Patrick Hardy for instance giving a different vision of an independent

:43:07.:43:11.

Scotland, than that of Alex Salmond. Using oil and gas much less, is

:43:11.:43:21.
:43:21.:43:23.

Not in the slightest. Government has to publish the white

:43:23.:43:28.

paper, but in terms of a different vision after independence, that is

:43:28.:43:32.

healthy. Her in the UK, there are all these political parties arguing

:43:32.:43:36.

for their own positions. It is quite right and proper but we have

:43:36.:43:40.

different voices say no We would like our independent Scotland to

:43:40.:43:45.

have this vision in the future. Let's ensues as many people from

:43:45.:43:50.

across the spectrum as we can to deliver independence. In the 2016

:43:50.:43:54.

election, let's put these different visions to the Test and come up

:43:54.:43:57.

with a PR Parliament that actually reflects the views of the people of

:43:57.:44:03.

Scotland. BS can peel and will be largely dominated by the SNP, even

:44:03.:44:07.

though you have these other voices. In terms of resources and help,

:44:07.:44:11.

what difference will have in the Scottish socialists and Scottish

:44:11.:44:18.

Greens on board make? The year scam pain and the launch was incredibly

:44:18.:44:26.

exciting on Friday. -- yes campaign. There are at least

:44:26.:44:30.

three on board and that is good. There hour people from the artistic

:44:30.:44:34.

community and the business community and all walks of life.

:44:34.:44:38.

That will be a strength in what will be the biggest-ever community

:44:38.:44:43.

campaign in Scotland as we move forward to the referendum. You're

:44:43.:44:47.

up opponents say they now have them momentum.

:44:47.:44:55.

-- you're opponents. That the SNP won the Le local-government

:44:55.:45:00.

elections but that was not a referendum on independence.

:45:00.:45:04.

As the First Minister said under earlier package, we now have a job

:45:04.:45:08.

to do to convince those people. There are open and less thing and

:45:08.:45:16.

they want to hear a case. We want to deliver a majority in 2014.

:45:16.:45:19.

Now, there are others who think there is a better middle way in

:45:19.:45:22.

Scotland's constitutional debate. Hayley Jarvis takes a look at the

:45:22.:45:31.

alternatives. Independent. Are you for it or

:45:31.:45:36.

against it? Or maybe you would prefer something in between the two.

:45:36.:45:40.

Would that be Devo Plus? Pro union supporters which come from across

:45:40.:45:43.

the er the political spectrum are expected to unfurled their flight

:45:43.:45:48.

within the coming months, with a message that Scotland is stronger

:45:48.:45:51.

within the United Kingdom than a loan, especially when it comes to

:45:51.:45:56.

the economy and defence. They will promote the benefits of the

:45:56.:46:02.

Scotland Act, which gives Holyrood or parser the spending and

:46:02.:46:10.

borrowing. Devo Plus is also attracting cross-party support.

:46:10.:46:13.

Reform Scotland is calling for greater powers for a Holyrood

:46:13.:46:18.

within the Union. This would put Scotland in charge of raising 100%

:46:18.:46:24.

of the cash its dens. There will be some key taxes, such as VAT and

:46:24.:46:28.

National Insurance, left out. Some would go even further when it comes

:46:28.:46:35.

to unpicking the current political make-up of the UK. Those in favour

:46:35.:46:40.

of devilish and Max want Holyrood to have sold tax bars. This would

:46:40.:46:44.

have all all powers to Holyrood, leaving Westminster in charge of

:46:44.:46:48.

foreign affairs and defence, to which Scotland would pay its own it

:46:48.:46:54.

contribution. More ideas on the constitutional future could emerge,

:46:54.:46:57.

but will these options be on the ballot paper?

:46:57.:47:01.

In the studio is the trade unionist, Dave Moxham. He's part of the

:47:01.:47:03.

Future For Scotland campaign. And in our Selkirk studio, the former

:47:03.:47:13.
:47:13.:47:14.

liberal democrat MSP Jeremy Purvis. He's heading up the Devo Plus group.

:47:14.:47:18.

Do we have, your organisation has called for a debate. We have one

:47:18.:47:25.

now, don't we? Our organisation is pleased to engage in debate, but

:47:25.:47:28.

there is a danger that we are moving too quickly into campaign

:47:28.:47:36.

mode and away from listening mode. Who should you be listening to?

:47:36.:47:39.

For our own members and a member has of a other organisations.

:47:39.:47:44.

We should be organising a debate in which people feel able to ask the

:47:44.:47:49.

questions they want to ask without the fear that we are automatically

:47:49.:47:56.

signing up for yes or no. Do you agree become has been fire to

:47:56.:48:02.

quickly? He raised as to good.

:48:02.:48:07.

. What we have seen it in the last two days is more about tactics and

:48:07.:48:16.

campaigning rather than substance. Wednesday you think we should start

:48:16.:48:24.

a substantial have to be it? -- when it do you think. The longer

:48:24.:48:27.

people have to think about it and to debate the issues, the better,

:48:27.:48:35.

surely? The Devo Plus Group has published a its proposed laws and

:48:35.:48:42.

you can read them on the website. It is a real step forward, giving

:48:42.:48:45.

the Scottish Parliament greater powers and more accountability to

:48:45.:48:50.

the Scottish people. We have to do us all out there now and I think

:48:50.:48:55.

that for the official yes and no campaign, issues of substance have

:48:55.:49:01.

to be given. There is any opportunity for them to be giving

:49:01.:49:07.

that. But we're hoping to persuade parties and people out with their

:49:07.:49:11.

party political process that there is a real alternative to

:49:11.:49:16.

independents and that is the way forward through Devo Plus. I am

:49:16.:49:21.

hoping that the Unionist parties will accept the case. They have

:49:21.:49:26.

given mandate indication that they are interested. When a formal

:49:26.:49:31.

campaign is launched, there is a clear choice between separation,

:49:31.:49:41.

independence, and Devo Plus. Isn't the danger that if you can rayon

:49:41.:49:47.

listening for month after month, you'll just get ignored?

:49:47.:49:57.
:49:57.:49:57.

That would be a case at the way the King at a referendum next year.

:49:57.:50:01.

Give us an idea of what you guys are thinking a bout for Stott it is

:50:01.:50:10.

OK to say you're in listening mode, but what are your parameters?

:50:10.:50:14.

It is an untested stated squad because of and boss changes that

:50:14.:50:18.

have yet be tested. We have been listening to deuce on

:50:18.:50:22.

independence. Are we are of the view that clear elements have been

:50:22.:50:26.

identified whereby enhanced by evolution could be put forward.

:50:26.:50:31.

Some of those have been identified by the Devo Plus campaign. They

:50:31.:50:36.

raised important issues, but not all the issues. Our personal

:50:36.:50:40.

current criticism of that is that they have looked at the nuts and

:50:40.:50:44.

bolts of tax, but there are other wider questions. If you're going to

:50:44.:50:53.

look at tax and welfare, you need to look at regulation powers, the

:50:53.:50:55.

employment market clock powers which occurred be held at

:50:55.:51:05.
:51:05.:51:05.

Westminster. I think Devo Plus have made a significant start. You were

:51:05.:51:12.

not ambitious enough. Our focus initially her as a benign

:51:13.:51:22.

the AA credibility of build a in my. Laugh cough I next piece of work is

:51:22.:51:30.

going to be put for words about better social justice. There is not

:51:30.:51:34.

only the flexibility, but the UK structure that reflects and is

:51:34.:51:39.

accountable to Holyrood and the people of Scotland better. We are

:51:39.:51:43.

in that process of work already. And that is why it is really

:51:43.:51:47.

important that we have honesty with people that there are consequences

:51:47.:51:57.

to both yes and no back position in the referendum. We're hoping that

:51:57.:52:03.

their No. Side argues for enhanced bars across the her socialite comes

:52:03.:52:09.

across the UK. There should be a long-term sustainable relationship

:52:09.:52:14.

between Scotland and the rest of the UK. It will be a long debate.

:52:14.:52:18.

Thank you. And now here's the lunchtime news,

:52:18.:52:21.

with Andrew Kerr. Good morning. The former airbase at

:52:21.:52:23.

Machrihanish on the Kintyre peninsula has been sold by the

:52:23.:52:26.

Ministry of Defence for �1. The buyer is a company owned and

:52:26.:52:29.

controlled by local people, who hope the site can help reinvigorate

:52:29.:52:34.

the local economy near Campbeltown. The former RAF station was

:52:34.:52:43.

strategically important during the Cold War. And delighted that using

:52:43.:52:47.

the right-to-buy legislation that we have ourselves in a position

:52:47.:52:52.

where the local community body will take over that you just sit and

:52:52.:52:56.

make sure it works for the local community and helps them to rebuild

:52:56.:52:58.

the local economy. Hundreds of households in the north

:52:59.:53:02.

are being advised to take action after high levels of radon gas were

:53:02.:53:05.

discovered in some areas. Concentrated pockets were found in

:53:05.:53:07.

the Highlands and Deeside. It's a naturally occurring radioactive gas,

:53:07.:53:10.

but it's been linked to cancer. Testing kits were sent to some

:53:10.:53:14.

people last year. People who discover high results are being

:53:14.:53:17.

urged to contact the authorities. The Edinburgh Marathon got underway

:53:17.:53:21.

this morning. Hundreds of runners set off in the sun. It's the tenth

:53:21.:53:24.

time it's been run and it's helped raise more than �30 million for

:53:24.:53:29.

raise more than �30 million for hundreds of charities.

:53:29.:53:37.

That's the news, now a look at the weather. Here's Judith.

:53:37.:53:40.

We are still in the middle of this heatwave.

:53:40.:53:44.

There has been cloud in the coastal areas, but that has cleared away

:53:44.:53:51.

nicely. Everywhere is dry with lots of sunshine. Into the low twenties

:53:51.:53:55.

already. That's it for the moment. Our next

:53:55.:53:59.

bulletin is at 6.05pm this evening. I'll hand now hand you back to

:53:59.:54:04.

Some of Scotland's rural towns could no longer be sustainable in

:54:04.:54:07.

the future. That is the conclusion of a new report into the rural

:54:07.:54:10.

economy in a time of recession. Researchers from the Scottish

:54:10.:54:13.

Agricultural College have drawn up a vulnerability index to calculate

:54:13.:54:15.

how current economic and social changes are affecting these rural

:54:15.:54:20.

communities. Our reporter Gilly Mathieson has been to Dunoon, one

:54:20.:54:30.
:54:30.:54:32.

of the places identified as at most risk. Dunoon is one of a cluster of

:54:32.:54:35.

row will towns which new research from the Scottish Agricultural

:54:35.:54:40.

Centre says our most honourable to the economic downturn.

:54:40.:54:45.

Here in Dunoon, 60% of the population are of working age and

:54:45.:54:49.

of those who do work, 56% are employed by the public sector. That

:54:50.:54:54.

is a lot higher than towns have a similar size across the country.

:54:54.:54:57.

The local economy relies on the spending power of those who work

:54:57.:55:03.

for the public sector. Although the council have promised that there

:55:03.:55:06.

will be no compulsory redundancies, there are concerns that jobs could

:55:06.:55:14.

be lost as the council continues to make its cuts. There is still worry

:55:14.:55:17.

and uncertainty as we progressed. That it is like Lee to be a big

:55:17.:55:21.

case over the next three years. This is a local charity which

:55:21.:55:24.

offers free therapy and self help to are will swear mental health

:55:24.:55:28.

issue. The charity says many of those that helps are under

:55:28.:55:34.

increasing financial pressure. Until April 2011, Mehdi adults with

:55:34.:55:39.

mental health problems who required additional help were able to access

:55:39.:55:42.

support workers has no cost to them through the local authority. That

:55:42.:55:50.

policy has now changed. Lots of people chose not to pay for their

:55:50.:55:52.

support their pre- the EC has for an of in a.

:55:52.:56:01.

As a result, as a service, we became much busier. This bakery was

:56:01.:56:05.

founded Heron 1920s to and employs 37 for full-time staff. Business

:56:06.:56:13.

has never been so tough. We have to distribute to Campbell's-hell and

:56:14.:56:23.

the brown mould Nila, all these places. It is have a problem. This

:56:23.:56:26.

is the local bookshop. She was hoping to manage the business from

:56:26.:56:31.

home by of the bra Bank X is so poor that she is unable to handle

:56:31.:56:37.

basic paper work. Publishers will have their

:56:37.:56:42.

catalogues online. They send those to me and back cannot download and.

:56:42.:56:46.

It's cannot actually you get through to the computer and blocks

:56:46.:56:51.

it up. All the males suffer following it kept locked up. With

:56:51.:56:54.

the public and private sector under pressure, young people here have

:56:54.:56:59.

fewer options. Unless it is for somebody he has

:56:59.:57:03.

got experience and his older, a fury of an purse and in this town,

:57:03.:57:07.

you do not have the chance. Companies have just gone bust and

:57:07.:57:13.

there is nothing for young people. The council is now led by an SNP

:57:14.:57:16.

administration who say they were will be lots being the Scot has

:57:16.:57:20.

Government for help to improve its infrastructure.

:57:20.:57:24.

We must be better at connected to the rest of Scotland. Particularly

:57:24.:57:30.

in communities like the us. If we get that our collection then

:57:30.:57:35.

their ability for us to attract inward investment is significant.

:57:35.:57:39.

With so many of Orrell town suffering under the economic

:57:39.:57:44.

downturn, or what can and should be doing it to ensure their future

:57:44.:57:47.

survival. Joining me now in the studio is one

:57:47.:57:50.

of the authors of the SAC report Dr Sarah Skerrat and from our Bristol

:57:50.:57:53.

studio we're joined by Robin Chater from the think-tank, The Federation

:57:53.:58:03.
:58:03.:58:04.

of European Employers. Is essentially what you're doing in

:58:04.:58:08.

the report say it is special case needs to be made for rural

:58:08.:58:12.

communities and Scotland. We're saying rural Scotland is

:58:12.:58:15.

different to her and Scotland. Were not saying it should be privileged

:58:15.:58:19.

or so separate. We're simply saying it is different.

:58:19.:58:24.

Policies need to be tailored for those differences. This is

:58:24.:58:26.

particularly crucial and times of economic downturn and scarcer

:58:26.:58:35.

resources. Those resources need to be spent well and targeted well.

:58:35.:58:42.

One example is concerning the ability of young people to find

:58:42.:58:49.

jobs are much sought peace. There are initiatives another person

:58:49.:58:51.

Scotland were scooters were provided for young people in order

:58:51.:58:57.

for them to go to job interviews because the public transport

:58:57.:59:01.

infrastructure simply doesn't allow that. That is where local

:59:01.:59:05.

initiatives have stepped in because national policy frameworks are not

:59:05.:59:14.

sufficiently targeted to those Days you agree that there is a

:59:14.:59:18.

particular problem with rural communities gym yes, there is.

:59:18.:59:24.

have special problems, everyone needs a car, obviously. I think

:59:24.:59:29.

that most rural areas have a problem with employment, many

:59:29.:59:35.

people must go off to cities and so on. You can see that in Scotland

:59:35.:59:42.

but the 16-24-year-old seemed to go off to cities and made a comeback

:59:42.:59:48.

in their middle years to live in rural areas, but it certainly is a

:59:48.:59:55.

problem, particularly keeping young people. How do you fix it? You must

:59:55.:59:59.

learn from the experience of other people. In Belgium there is a

:59:59.:00:04.

scheme to encourage young people to set up businesses of their own.

:00:04.:00:10.

Wanly 4% of people under the age of 25 are self employed in Europe. It

:00:10.:00:14.

is slightly higher in Scotland, but very little is done for them. If

:00:14.:00:17.

you are in Spain you will get a lump sum from your unemployment

:00:17.:00:24.

benefit if you are not employed, in advance. In Italy, with the highest

:00:24.:00:27.

level of self-employment amongst young people, half of the

:00:27.:00:33.

population go on a special course to train you in entrepreneurship.

:00:33.:00:38.

Do you agree with that analysis, which is that what you want to do

:00:38.:00:41.

with youth unemployment is give young people the tools to set out

:00:41.:00:45.

on their own rather than depending on state spending in former public

:00:45.:00:51.

sector jobs? That is an important option, what is also important

:00:51.:00:56.

alongside that it, equally important, is the place based

:00:56.:01:00.

approach. Not only looking at it, but opportunities, but looking at

:01:00.:01:04.

affordable housing. We are seeing a growth in some rural areas. A

:01:04.:01:08.

growth in the need for housing and particularly for single occupancy

:01:08.:01:13.

household. That is not a typical housing provision in rural areas,

:01:13.:01:19.

housing for single people. Q also point out the number of second

:01:19.:01:25.

homes, holiday homes. What should be done about that? I believe there

:01:25.:01:29.

are debate in Government about council tax flexibility to allow

:01:29.:01:34.

for different charges for how long a property is vacant, whether it is

:01:34.:01:38.

furnished or unfurnished. I believe these discussions are ongoing.

:01:38.:01:41.

the Scottish Government should pro actively try and reduce that

:01:41.:01:48.

proportion of houses that are holiday homes? Which are unoccupied

:01:48.:01:51.

for large portions of the Keir, be they holiday homes or vacant homes

:01:51.:01:57.

that are simply unused. We need more housing, but we need the

:01:57.:02:00.

houses to have the infrastructure. So when you houses are built, the

:02:00.:02:04.

infrastructure must be built as well. There are vacant properties

:02:04.:02:07.

that already have that infrastructure, and they must be

:02:07.:02:11.

police so that young people can be housed. Businesses are tried to

:02:11.:02:14.

grow in the rural areas and cannot house the work force because there

:02:15.:02:21.

is no affordable housing. People might say that if community there

:02:21.:02:23.

unsustainable then they are unsustainable, people should move

:02:23.:02:29.

on and find jobs at light elsewhere for. They do. Only two-thirds of

:02:29.:02:33.

the population who get degrees in Scotland actually can find a job

:02:33.:02:37.

straight away. Many of them must move away. If Scotland has a very

:02:37.:02:44.

good educational system compared with much of Europe and the number

:02:44.:02:47.

of people in employment is higher in the north end of Scotland than

:02:47.:02:53.

anywhere else in Europe. Much of that is dependent on the oil and

:02:53.:02:57.

gas industry. In terms of local communities, how do they diversify

:02:57.:03:01.

so they are not dependent on the public sector or on the Private

:03:01.:03:11.
:03:11.:03:11.

sector? 37% of people who live in rural areas are in small businesses.

:03:11.:03:14.

Small businesses they set up. There in the Private sector and have

:03:14.:03:20.

taken the initiative. The work in small companies. They are not

:03:20.:03:24.

entirely dependent. If you take Scotland as a whole, all in round

:03:24.:03:29.

23% of people in the public sector, people who have left their jobs

:03:29.:03:36.

tend to be in local Government. People who are getting through the

:03:36.:03:42.

educational system... Thank you very much. Sorry to Russia, we are

:03:42.:03:49.

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser with the latest political news, interviews and debate, including shadow business secretary Chuka Umunna.


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