20/05/2012 Sunday Politics Scotland


20/05/2012

Andrew Neil and Isabel Fraser with the latest political news, interviews and debate. Andrew is joined by the Energy and Climate Change Secretary Ed Davey.


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Good afternoon and welcome to the Sunday politics. Our top story

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called a blind agreement to promote jobs and growth and keep a Greece

:00:50.:00:53.

Andy Euro zone. Was anything decided by D G eight which will

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make the slightest difference? �1,200 per year and rising. What

:01:01.:01:07.

will the Government do about household fuel bills? The police

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federation accuses the Theresa May of been on the precipice of

:01:11.:01:21.
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destroying the police service. The RAF's toxic legacy in Scotland.

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First, radioactive contamination, now we discover concerns about

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chemical weapons dumped on public land. And we are live in Washington

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to assess the potential fall-out from the Euro zone crisis and what

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1602 seconds

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Air is a complete red herring. You're talking about fairness, yet

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some officers will lose 30% up their spending power. A wiry been

:28:38.:28:48.
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treated differently? -- why are we? These reforms do not change the

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overall pay bill. It is a system recognising that officers doing the

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most important jobs are paid accordingly. The system right now

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increases pay every year regardless of skills.

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Even if these reforms are implemented in full will the police

:29:09.:29:16.

still not have one of the best deals on pay and pensions?

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You have to look at their job but we do.

:29:24.:29:34.
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But is that true? Or yes, but we are astonished at the low priority.

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Social services and education have been hit as well and we're having

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to pick up the pieces. Public safety is being put at risk. That

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is the bottom line. That is not true. You will continue

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to earn 15% more than other emergency services. An average of

:30:02.:30:12.
:30:12.:30:15.

two-and-a-half �1,000 pair here. -- �2,500 pair here.

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People will be worried that you are cutting the numbers.

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The question is what is happening on the frontline. All the parties

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admit that we have to make savings and that numbers would go down. But

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at the moment we have 6,000 officers on restricted duties, the

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number doubling in the last eight years.

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I need to make a final point that the Government knows it has been

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caught out. Overseas Development has been increased by 34%, why are

:30:53.:31:01.

you putting British public safety at risk?

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We have to leave at there. What about as bows?

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We will replace the system with a better one that enables injunctions

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to be obtained earlier. Better tools for the police.

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Things like that have been lost because of what is going on

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elsewhere. Welcome to Sunday politics Scotland.

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Coming up: chemical weapons and radioactive waste. Has the public

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been kept in the dark about radiation at an RAF Kinloss. What

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will the effect of the Euro zone crisis be when it washes up in

:31:50.:31:54.

Scotland? And affordable housing shortages put an end to the

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purchasing of council houses introduced by Margaret Thatcher.

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But is it about to make a comeback? And an alternative treatment for

:32:04.:32:12.

alcoholics from Canada. It is a difficult concept to wrap

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your brain around. What is going on with care in our

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communities? And well the torch relay get you excited about the

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Documents obtained by BBC Scotland show that the authorities knew that

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the public could be at risk from chemical weapons buried near the

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RAF base at Kinross. It is already the focus of an investigation by

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the Scottish Environment Agency. Our Environment Correspondent has

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been investigating and joins me now. You reported the risk of

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radioactive contamination outside the base. That is now being

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investigated. Yet you have discovered another toxic legacy.

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Yes, potential radioactive contamination inside and outside

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the base is under investigation but we can also reveal that the

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authorities at the base knew about the dangers posed by chemical

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weapons on public land. We have obtained a land quality assessment

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dating back to 2004. It was carried out ahead of construction more for

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a new water treatment project. It The land quality assessment goes on

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to say that the authorities at Kinross believe there was a

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potential for radioactive contamination to be present in the

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ground and warns any personnel involved in the investigation work

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that it had the potential to put them at risk. I have been told that

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staff War nuclear, chemical, and biological protection suits.

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Clearly the threat was taken This mustard agent could be buried

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Yes, a colourless, or Islay agent which creates Severe Barnes and

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destroys body tissue. -- severe burns. It can release active

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sulphur mustard. It is worth noting that the UK abandoned its offensive

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chemical weapons programmes in 1956. In 2004, based test pits where up

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duck and there was no traces of contamination found - was that

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conclusive? No trace of chemical weapons was

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bound but the authors of the report believe that anomalies were not

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investigated and admits that in some areas it was not possible to

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conduct the geophysical Survey, as they called it. That statement, I

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suspect, will not reassure the public. It is worth pointing out

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there we have been told that material contaminated with radium

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was removed from the site during the work in 2004.

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There is legitimate public interest here of - how forthcoming have the

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MoD been? They are released a statement

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:36:21.:36:42.

Two key questions remain. How do management systems remain in place

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if land is sold and the new owners are unaware of potential dangers?

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And where the relevant authorities in Scotland informed of the

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situation at the base by the Ministry of Defence back in 2004?

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The Scottish Government has already written to the Ministry of Defence

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demanding full disclosure. Pressure is mounting on the ministry to

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release more information about potential environmental threats at

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base is not just Team Scotland but across the United Kingdom. -- bases

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not just here in Scotland. I have joined now by a representative of

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the defence select committee at Westminster. How does to commit --

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how much does the committee know about what is going on?

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We know and absolutely nothing about these deeply worrying

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revelations. There is an arrogance about the Ministry of Defence that

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is not new but must be tackled once and for all.

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A report came out in 1958 informing the Government Act that time that

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there was a problem with radium in the ground and that records must be

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kept and passed on to subsequent landowners, do you think there is a

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due diligence as you or do you think the Ministry of Defence has

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been an act of like obstructive? There is a culture in the Ministry

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of Defence of withholding information from the public and

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successive governments. That must end.

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:38:35.:38:37.

Issue of concern about potential liability? -- as you're?

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There is a culture, that somehow the Ministry of Defence knows

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better than its regulators. We need an option statement from the

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Government that spells out who knew what and when. When did they inform

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the Scottish regulators? When did gain formal authorities? When did

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the informed Scottish ministers? That must be done as soon as

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possible. What kind of confidence can the

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public have given how this has been handled so far?

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The only way trust can be restored as if the Ministry of Defence gets

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in front of this and spells out what it believes are the

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liabilities on the site and the realistic health risks. Rather than

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the BBC doing the job for them of digging up information.

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You mention the BBC, could Parliament have been more vigilant

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here? With the best will in the world

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Committee members were not around when the 1958 reports were coming

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out. It is not practical for ministers and politicians to

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perform that level of due diligence. The Ministry of Defence has a

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culture of secrecy and that must end.

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The G8 summit ended with apparently conflicting objectives. The

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Americans call for growth whilst German said that austerity measures

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must remain in place. How safe can you be from the fall-out? One of

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the jewels in the crown of the Scottish tourist industry here on

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the Aberdeen coast. It may be the weather for these fellows but last

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year 72,000 people visited. They came from all over Europe,

:40:58.:41:08.
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everywhere, really. If the euro currency continues to

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devalue that is good news for foreign holidaymakers who will get

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more bang from the account. But the downside of a strong, expensive

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pound, is that visitors are put off coming here from Europe. To this

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spend an estimated �4 billion in Scotland every year. -- to wrists.

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It would not just be this industry which would be affected by the Euro

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zone crisis, exports would also suffer. Scottish salmon has a

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lucrative market in Europe. The whisky industry might fare better,

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it has a huge market outside the euro-zone. Oil and gas is also a

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global business. But a dip in oil prices is being put down to

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concerns about a drop in demand for -- from Europe. Perhaps the biggest

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danger for the United Kingdom and Scottish economy as a volatility.

:42:12.:42:22.
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Uncertainty in the markets is always expensive.

:42:24.:42:29.

Barry Porter has got a very early from Washington to join us. We are

:42:29.:42:39.
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outside the euro, but how concerned There are two scenarios. One is

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that the Greeks remain inside the euro. Even with that scenario, the

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pressure is on the euro, as your correspondent said, and it will

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make it a fairly depressed currency. It lowered demand in the UK and in

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Scotland in particular. There is then the possibility the Greeks are

:43:05.:43:09.

forced out of the euro and then the situation will become worse. That

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will remove uncertainty about the future of the euro and Greece but

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it transfers the uncertainty to the situations in Spain and Portugal

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and so on. Under either scenario, I think the prospects are for a rough

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period ahead. Which areas in Scotland are most vulnerable?

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are obviously some that are more are linked into the value of the

:43:36.:43:46.
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currency and those are issues like to Islam -- tourism, and that will

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discourage visitors to Spain, Portugal and other areas like that.

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The food industry is also vulnerable. I would have a more

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optimistic view on two sectors. First of all, even though the dip

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in a while prices will not have helped the oil export industry, and

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the long term nobody sees oil prices dropping. Any kind of

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international incident relating to the Middle East can quickly reverse

:44:18.:44:22.

any decline like we have seen in the last few weeks. The oil

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industry is not likely to be particularly badly affected. The

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Scottish financial sector remains in a better shape than its

:44:31.:44:36.

counterparts in Europe to handle the a repercussions of further

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uncertainty and problems within the euro. Given that the G8 does not

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seem to have come up with anything constructive other than President

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Obama saying there should be growth and Angela Merkel saying we have to

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stick to plans to cut the deficit, do you think the Greeks have to

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accept the package they have been offered or do you think Germany and

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others have to rethink what is happening? This is a very difficult

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issue. I think the only two things that economists generally would

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broadly agree on are the following. First, everyone realises that the

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debt cannot go on and the way that it is. The issue is how quickly you

:45:20.:45:26.

can really cut it back. Even an institution like my former employer,

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the IMF, even their saying one needs to be restrained about how

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fast you try to cut back. I think that has been one dimension on

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which everyone can now except that there needs to be some moderation

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otherwise there really is a risk of a self-defeating contraction of the

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economy, because there is insufficient demand. The second

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thing people can understand is that the real tragedy of this increase

:45:55.:46:00.

in debt is that this was not a debt that was increased as a result of

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productive investment but as a result of the misbehaviour of banks

:46:05.:46:10.

over a period of time. The more that one can now find some means

:46:10.:46:13.

the public spending to come up with the infrastructure investments and

:46:13.:46:17.

things of that nature, the better it is going to be. That is probably

:46:17.:46:21.

a message that there will be some agreement on it even between

:46:21.:46:26.

President Obama and Angela Merkel. They have to both cut the deficit

:46:26.:46:31.

but not too quickly. At the same time, you have to stimulate their

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economies which has done quite successfully in the United States

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to supply it employment and keep the economy so regenerating. What

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would be you're the view of the Westminster government, are the

:46:49.:46:54.

cutting back to fast and too much? That is a difficult question to

:46:54.:46:59.

answer but I would put it this way. It was obviously a setback for the

:47:00.:47:02.

present government when the economy appeared to head back into

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recession. I would think if there were a further quarter of negative

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growth or even zero growth, then the pressures will start to mount

:47:11.:47:17.

to review simply the rate at which this fiscal consolidation is taking

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place. No one doubts that fiscal consolidation is necessary, that is

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indisputable. There are some real structural problems that need to be

:47:26.:47:31.

addressed in the UK economy on this basis. I think there may be some

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greater pressure towards the end of this year if the economy does not

:47:34.:47:39.

show signs of revival over the next few months. To get back to the euro

:47:39.:47:45.

crisis, how helpful word David Cameron's comets that the eurozone

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had to make-up or break-up at this stage? -- comets. There is a real

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fundamental problem and an economy like Greece and I can understand

:47:56.:48:00.

his remarks. The truth is that economy is not productive at

:48:00.:48:06.

present wage rates and that the present exchange rate. If you're

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not able to change this and Greece remains within the euro, then you

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have no choice but to go through a long protracted period of wage

:48:14.:48:18.

restraint. Whether that can be handled politically and pieces are

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very difficult question. -- in Greece.

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Could the right to buy, a key and highly controversial housing policy

:48:26.:48:32.

of the Thatcher era, be making a come back in East Lothian. The new

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Conservative and Labour coalition have agreed what they call a

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modernised right to buy .The previous SNP and Liberal Democrat

:48:37.:48:47.

administration didn't want anything to do with it.

:48:47.:48:51.

Owning your own home was at the centre of Margaret thatcher's

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social revolution. It is now 27 years since she travelled here to

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celebrate the millionth house sale under the right-to-buy scheme which

:49:00.:49:04.

gave people the opportunity to purchase their council houses at a

:49:04.:49:10.

low cost. This woman rents a house from the council but she says she's

:49:10.:49:15.

one of the lucky ones. The right- to-buy let it East Lothian's

:49:15.:49:21.

housing stock being have leading to pressurised waiting lists. Had it

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been a private let as friends of mine have had to do, it would have

:49:25.:49:30.

been so expensive I could not have afforded it. This is my fear, that

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what will happen is, with more and more privatisation, they are going

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to cherry-pick the people that make the most money and the poor and

:49:38.:49:43.

vulnerable will not have a home at all. The modernised right-to-buy

:49:43.:49:49.

was abolished in the 2010 Housing Act. One year later, East Lothian

:49:49.:49:58.

was canst -- granted pressurised area status. The Conservatives

:49:58.:50:02.

pledged to reverse that in their manifesto. If you're a council

:50:02.:50:07.

tenant and have the chance to buy your home, you can buy it at a far

:50:07.:50:11.

lower cost than on the open market. It is relatively affordable for a

:50:11.:50:16.

lot of people. The council banks their money for a house and an --

:50:16.:50:20.

and then reinvest that very speedily. Housing became a

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predominant issue during the election campaign with the SNP

:50:25.:50:29.

campaigning on the record of housebuilding helped by �4.4

:50:29.:50:38.

million from the Scottish government. We had a concern. There

:50:38.:50:41.

was no houses built in the previous five years of the previous and

:50:41.:50:47.

penetration. Reassurance right-to- buy is the issue of losing house

:50:47.:50:57.

has just built. -- previous administration. The new Labour and

:50:57.:50:59.

Conservative Coalition is calling for more Scottish government help

:50:59.:51:03.

to allow it to access affordable land to build more homes and help

:51:03.:51:07.

kick-start the local economy. available land in East Lothian is

:51:07.:51:12.

under the control of major Housing builders who are suffering under

:51:12.:51:17.

the financial climate. If the Government was prepared to

:51:17.:51:20.

reintroduce the community land that are any measure where councils

:51:20.:51:25.

could get access to additional land, that would be a huge help. East

:51:25.:51:30.

Lothian has already announced it will not been meeting the 2012

:51:30.:51:34.

homelessness target and the issue is making front-page news. Homeless

:51:34.:51:40.

this has increased considerably over the last 10 years. There has

:51:40.:51:44.

been a 65% increase in the number of homelessness applications to the

:51:44.:51:48.

council over the last decade. There have been on average 2100

:51:48.:51:53.

applications for homelessness to the local authority on average each

:51:53.:51:57.

year. It boosting the availability of affordable housing is a key

:51:57.:52:02.

priority for the new council. that is done remains to be seen.

:52:02.:52:05.

With me in Glasgow is the housing and transport minister, MSP Keith

:52:05.:52:07.

Brown. And for Scottish Labour, their housing spokesperson, Elaine

:52:08.:52:16.

Murray MSP. Can we be clear about Labour's

:52:16.:52:22.

policy is on the right to buy? 2010 at the not abolish the

:52:22.:52:26.

modernised right-to-buy. It abolished it for certain categories,

:52:26.:52:31.

new tenants, new builds. The people who already had the modernised

:52:31.:52:38.

right-to-buy continue to have it. East Lothian had applied for

:52:39.:52:41.

privileged status which allowed them to suspend the modernised

:52:41.:52:46.

right-to-buy for a period of time. They're talking about a revolting

:52:46.:52:53.

that suspension. In the East Lothian, only 18 houses were sold

:52:53.:53:00.

under the modernised right-to-buy. Most houses have been sold under

:53:00.:53:06.

the preserve right to buy. Going forward, in East Lothian, do they

:53:06.:53:10.

want to see tenants in new-build have the right to buy and the

:53:10.:53:16.

future? What the Tories are saying is that they want to report the

:53:16.:53:26.
:53:26.:53:29.

suspension. Us that Labour policy is well? -- revoke. The council can

:53:29.:53:35.

make that decision, either to impose the suspension of the right

:53:35.:53:39.

to buy it or revoke it. That is a decision for the local authority to

:53:39.:53:43.

make. As it Labour Party policy that any new-build in Scotland

:53:43.:53:49.

should be open to right to buy? is not. You do not see a

:53:49.:53:52.

contradiction? I do not see a contradiction because in East

:53:52.:54:00.

Lothian they would not be water sell-off new builds? What we have

:54:00.:54:05.

is a Labour Party in East Lothian facilitating with the Conservatives

:54:05.:54:09.

a return to Thatcherite policy. East Lothian is highly pressured.

:54:09.:54:13.

This will not help them until we have heard about the pressure and

:54:13.:54:17.

the waiting lists and that will have the effect of reducing the

:54:17.:54:21.

available stock. I do not understand this because Alleyne

:54:21.:54:25.

Murray and myself both recently voted against the Conservatives he

:54:25.:54:31.

was advocating that policy. I do not have understand how at the

:54:31.:54:35.

Labour Party can say something at a national level and the exact

:54:35.:54:39.

opposite in East Lothian. They are proposing to lift the suspension of

:54:39.:54:45.

their modernised right abide which affected 18 properties since it

:54:45.:54:50.

came into effect. You take the point that that is a constant

:54:50.:54:56.

effect. You cannot or ride the Housing Act. The fact is there is a

:54:56.:55:00.

suspension of the right-to-buy for five years in East Lothian. The

:55:00.:55:04.

Labour Party and the Conservatives have the ability to lift that. If

:55:04.:55:09.

it was true one year ago that when East Lothian apply to us that they

:55:09.:55:14.

had an excess of demand over supply, what has changed now and for the

:55:14.:55:16.

Labour Party and the Tories to going to the sidelines to bring

:55:16.:55:21.

back a Thatcherite policy? Let's look at that point then. Whatever

:55:21.:55:25.

the legalities of what may or may not be an Egle and the future, if

:55:25.:55:30.

all the evidence is that there is a big housing shortage there, why is

:55:30.:55:35.

this policy appropriate? Labour councillors did not support the

:55:35.:55:38.

suspension of the right to buy in 2010 anyway because they did not

:55:38.:55:43.

think it would achieve anything. We're talking about East Lothian.

:55:43.:55:47.

In East Lothian, they did not support it because they did not

:55:47.:55:50.

think it would make any difference because they had only sold 18

:55:50.:55:54.

houses under the modernised right- to-buy. There were worried that

:55:54.:55:59.

people who had be preserved right- to-buy might feel that their

:55:59.:56:05.

entitlement was under threat and then try to use it. The next just

:56:05.:56:08.

clarify the consequences here. What do you think will be the

:56:08.:56:13.

consequences of what this Coalition is proposing now? I do not think it

:56:13.:56:19.

will make a great deal of difference. Since the 2001 Act came

:56:19.:56:24.

into effect, 1000 council houses have been sold under the preserve

:56:24.:56:28.

right-to-buy and that is the right to buy that is not being affected.

:56:28.:56:33.

That is the one with the big biscuit. If it will make little

:56:33.:56:37.

difference, why is it being done in the first place? This will have the

:56:37.:56:42.

effect of reducing the available stock off housing and East Lothian.

:56:42.:56:46.

Why would you do this if your policy is to sell houses off? It

:56:46.:56:50.

will have an effect on the available land in East Lothian --

:56:50.:56:56.

land for housing in East Lothian. They will struggle to hit but the

:56:56.:57:00.

2012 or homeless this target and this will not help it at all.

:57:00.:57:04.

there are also an argument that more up focus should be placed on

:57:04.:57:07.

private sector housing because there are often massive problems

:57:07.:57:11.

there which does not ever get abreast across any of the

:57:11.:57:19.

council's? In terms of legislation? In terms of responses. Perhaps a

:57:19.:57:22.

needs to be better implementation of the existing legislation and the

:57:22.:57:29.

standards of these accommodation and then its upper level to. There

:57:29.:57:33.

has been legislation in the Scottish Parliament or the years.

:57:33.:57:39.

Do you think it has been adequately enforced? A I think it will get --

:57:39.:57:45.

change from one council to another council. Is that acceptable? It is

:57:45.:57:48.

not acceptable if legislation is not at here to but that is an issue

:57:48.:57:53.

for local authorities to make sure it is enforced. In terms of the

:57:53.:57:56.

sort of consultations that are out there and where housing policy may

:57:56.:58:02.

go, what should be looking for in the future? We are in a process

:58:02.:58:06.

just now where we have limited the right to buy and given councils

:58:06.:58:09.

further discretion but I think there is more to be done. Over the

:58:10.:58:14.

next few weeks, there is more consultation coming out over the

:58:14.:58:19.

right to buy. That hinges on people's rights and Landlord's

:58:19.:58:23.

obligations. East Lothian had a very progressive council which was

:58:23.:58:27.

buying back housing stock of the private market because it was good

:58:27.:58:30.

quality housing. This is the exact reverse of that policy and my fear

:58:30.:58:34.

is that at the other council in Scotland is making great strides

:58:34.:58:38.

towards hitting their 2012 targets and had great concerns over the

:58:38.:58:42.

effect this will have an East Lothian. This has been blown out of

:58:42.:58:48.

all proportion. 18 houses were sold since 2002 when the modernised

:58:48.:58:53.

right-to-buy came into effect. It is not going to make a massive

:58:53.:58:57.

difference and I think this is all about the fact the SNP are unhappy

:58:57.:59:03.

they did not do better in East Lothian. Before we leave, could you

:59:03.:59:07.

consultation lead to further restrictions on the right to buy?

:59:07.:59:11.

Those will be some of the questions we are looking at, whether we

:59:11.:59:15.

should further restrict the right to buy. We said that in her

:59:15.:59:19.

manifesto so that is something we will look at. We'll take on board

:59:19.:59:23.

the views of people and if it will make little difference, why is it

:59:23.:59:27.

the case the Labour Party and the Conservatives are bringing back the

:59:27.:59:37.

This week the Scottish Government confirmed it wants to set a minimum

:59:37.:59:42.

price for alcohol off 50 pence per unit. In Canada, a form of minimum

:59:43.:59:48.

pricing has been in place for more than 20 years. But the country is

:59:48.:59:56.

also using alternative measures to address drinking problems. Canada

:59:56.:00:02.

has a state monopoly on alcohol. Here in Ontario it is sold by

:00:02.:00:09.

government owned stores. Each state sets a minimum price for alcohol

:00:09.:00:16.

and the signs are that it helps. Every time there is an increase in

:00:16.:00:19.

the minimum price or world consumption goes down. There is

:00:19.:00:29.

also a reduction to hospital visits. -- overall consumption.

:00:29.:00:33.

Minimum pricing is part of a wider strategy adopted by the Canadian

:00:33.:00:37.

government aiming to cut down the estimated �7 billion spent on

:00:37.:00:47.
:00:47.:00:49.

health care and lost productivity. We came up with 41 consensus

:00:49.:00:54.

recommended -- recommendations. They are now in play and a shipping

:00:54.:01:04.
:01:04.:01:05.

alcohol policy here in Canada. For three arrows, on the half-hour,

:01:05.:01:12.

the receive a proportion of wine. - - Three Arrows. It is determined by

:01:12.:01:19.

a medical model. Than us and doctors help make a decision. --

:01:19.:01:26.

the nurses. Homeless shelters have

:01:26.:01:29.

traditionally banned alcohol on their premises but this programme

:01:29.:01:36.

uses it as a treatment. We provide alcohol to people with

:01:36.:01:40.

an addiction which is a hard concept to wrap your brain around.

:01:40.:01:43.

The traditional method is a recovery model which is abstinence

:01:43.:01:48.

based. The programme has proved effective

:01:48.:01:52.

when it comes to improving the health of alcoholics and reducing

:01:52.:01:57.

the encounters with police and medical staff.

:01:57.:02:06.

I was drinking $100 per day. Now I wake up in the morning and have a

:02:06.:02:13.

nice hot shower. I am not shaking and puking.

:02:13.:02:16.

We are reducing the harm to the individual person. Managing

:02:17.:02:21.

addiction in a way whereby they're not living on the street, drinking

:02:21.:02:25.

moonshine, they are drinking more soluble liquids that will not have

:02:25.:02:30.

such a medical detriment to their body. It also works on a local

:02:30.:02:37.

level. We reduce the number of panhandling alcoholics in the

:02:37.:02:42.

community, committing crimes to feed their expensive addiction. And

:02:42.:02:51.

then a societal level we're Across the country, new initiatives

:02:51.:02:57.

have been piloted to reduce alcohol-related harm. With

:02:57.:03:01.

Scotland's relation of alcohol in focus, is there more we can learn

:03:01.:03:03.

from alternative approaches to addiction that can be applied here

:03:03.:03:10.

at home? Provision of care has been in the

:03:10.:03:13.

headlines this week following a story of our us about a man in

:03:13.:03:19.

Aberdeen who had 106 different carers in the year. What is the

:03:19.:03:26.

issue here? We reported on Friday about Janette,

:03:26.:03:32.

who cared for her husband Ken, until his death last week. During

:03:32.:03:36.

the last year of his life he had 106 different people through the

:03:36.:03:41.

door. The issue is not the quality of care, it is the sheer number of

:03:41.:03:46.

people coming in and out of the house. They were involved in

:03:46.:03:52.

intimate care, on dressing, peeving, toileting. His wife says that

:03:52.:03:57.

having that number of people doing intimate things to her husband has

:03:57.:04:05.

stripped him of his dignity. The main thing is dignity. You

:04:05.:04:09.

always come back to it. These people have lost everything. The

:04:09.:04:14.

only thing they are left with his dignity. If you strip that away you

:04:14.:04:21.

are just disposing of them, taking their last thing from them.

:04:21.:04:30.

This has touched a nerve with the Core we have been deluged with

:04:30.:04:36.

personal stories. Many of them echo the experience of Janette. A couple

:04:36.:04:46.
:04:46.:05:12.

It is obviously a very difficult time for people if you get to a

:05:12.:05:16.

stage whereby you need help with care. How is the process so poster

:05:16.:05:26.
:05:26.:05:27.

work? -- supposed. In some cases you will be given a

:05:27.:05:33.

care package provided by employees of the council. Anecdotally, from

:05:33.:05:38.

Nicole, it seems that in that situation there is less of a

:05:38.:05:44.

turnover of staff. -- from the information I have received. It is

:05:44.:05:48.

when agencies becoming fork that there tends to be a high turnover

:05:48.:05:53.

of staff. The alternative is being put in control of your own budget,

:05:53.:05:59.

which is called self directed care. Not all councils tell you about it

:05:59.:06:09.
:06:09.:06:19.

There is a Bill going through the Scottish Parliament at the moment

:06:19.:06:23.

which will force councils to tell you that this option is available

:06:23.:06:31.

and make it your right to have it but that has not yet gone through.

:06:31.:06:39.

With us now, Professor June Andrews from Stirling University, you

:06:39.:06:42.

obviously have expertise -- expertise with a specific type of

:06:42.:06:50.

client. What sort of options are made available to people? And how

:06:50.:06:57.

much information do they get about what is out there?

:06:57.:07:02.

We hear information that supports watch your viewers have said. It is

:07:02.:07:06.

hoped that this legislation will make it easier for people to get

:07:06.:07:11.

the proper information. In general, there are told, you can get what is

:07:11.:07:15.

given by the council, or what is on offer from the council, delivered

:07:15.:07:22.

by a company recruited by them. So how informed of people about the

:07:22.:07:26.

choices they are going to make? Is it always clear what consequences

:07:26.:07:32.

will be of a certain package? When you have dementia, it is

:07:32.:07:36.

always the case that a number of cases will be bad for you. It is

:07:37.:07:41.

not always clear that those people choosing the care know what is best

:07:41.:07:50.

for cases of dementia. They are forced into taking what is on offer.

:07:50.:07:54.

Are there competing and conflicting interests when it comes to people

:07:54.:07:56.

providing the Care and the information being given as part of

:07:56.:08:03.

this process? Yes, one of your correspondent said

:08:03.:08:06.

that the council were not keen on putting forward the idea of the

:08:06.:08:10.

person having their own budgets. You can see the conflict of

:08:10.:08:14.

interest, it implies that what the council is offering is not good

:08:14.:08:20.

enough and that is some sense it might involve some risk to the

:08:20.:08:24.

Council of to services have been run in parallel. The one already

:08:24.:08:28.

being provided by the council under one per person ones with their own

:08:28.:08:31.

resources. If but the very important thing, particularly with

:08:31.:08:36.

dementia, this is the last months and years of some bodies life.

:08:36.:08:41.

Having somebody care for you at home give Sue protection against

:08:41.:08:45.

institutionalisation. Whatever is offered must be satisfactory to the

:08:45.:08:55.
:08:55.:08:55.

cables. -- cables. Could contract the Clear and better

:08:55.:08:59.

enforced? It is proven clinically that you should not have large

:08:59.:09:04.

numbers of people coming in for individuals with dementia who might

:09:05.:09:12.

find that frightening. At really important point. The

:09:12.:09:15.

implication of what was said before was that the council care was

:09:15.:09:20.

better than company care. But if the council said so limited times

:09:20.:09:24.

and low budgets with the company and does not stipulate that the

:09:24.:09:29.

number of carers should be limited, these things will happen.

:09:29.:09:36.

What will make the biggest difference?

:09:36.:09:39.

If the people setting the contracts they really understood dementia and

:09:39.:09:44.

what makes a difference to people with dementia. Whether that be

:09:44.:09:48.

council people or individual families and carers. If they have

:09:49.:09:51.

the right information in terms of what will make the biggest

:09:51.:09:57.

difference for the person we're not trying to support and care for.

:09:57.:10:04.

So, self directed care, the best thing?

:10:04.:10:08.

If the person is anxious to manage a budget being held by the council

:10:08.:10:12.

but offering the person support, that is a good compromise. But the

:10:12.:10:19.

most important thing is that people have influence over what is spent.

:10:19.:10:24.

Lots of people very affected by this and more so in the future,

:10:24.:10:29.

presumably? Yes, and the argument gets

:10:29.:10:32.

polarised, it is very important to remember that the person with

:10:32.:10:41.

dementia is at heart of this. 68 days and counting. We're not

:10:41.:10:44.

talking about the publication of the Scottish Government referendum

:10:44.:10:50.

responses - we're talking about the Olympics. Are you excited? Will you

:10:50.:10:54.

be glued to the television? Or are you feeling left out and under

:10:54.:11:02.

whelmed? It is one of the final landmarks in the countdown to the

:11:02.:11:09.

opening ceremony. The arrival of the Olympic flame. A carefully

:11:09.:11:17.

choreographed affair involving royalty. Behind all the fanfare, a

:11:17.:11:27.
:11:27.:11:28.

serious game. -- game. Organisers hope this will ignite enthusiasm up

:11:28.:11:34.

and down the country. Promoting the games as I United Kingdom event,

:11:34.:11:39.

not just for London. But will be Johnny be enough to convince the

:11:39.:11:49.
:11:49.:11:55.

doubters? -- the journey. The Scottish Legg will begin on day

:11:55.:12:02.

20 off the track across the UK. It will visit iconic sides like the

:12:02.:12:08.

birthplace of Robert Burns. It will then head north before taking to

:12:08.:12:15.

the air for visits to Orkney, Shetland, and Lewis. It then travel

:12:15.:12:19.

south through Aberdeen and Dundee and makes its way to Edinburgh

:12:19.:12:29.
:12:29.:12:30.

Castle. Organisers claim it will come within one hour of 95% of the

:12:30.:12:35.

population. Glasgow is in the midst of preparing to host the

:12:35.:12:41.

Commonwealth Games in two years. New venues, a tangible sign of a

:12:41.:12:45.

lasting benefits that the Games will provide. Selling the legacy of

:12:45.:12:52.

the London Games here however is a bigger challenge. More than 100

:12:52.:12:59.

Scottish companies have secured contracts related to the Olympics.

:12:59.:13:03.

Several projects inspired by the games are encouraging youngsters to

:13:03.:13:10.

get involved in sport. The torch relay: do provide lessons to those

:13:10.:13:14.

organising the Commonwealth Games and provide an opportunity to

:13:15.:13:18.

showcase Scotland, but will it bring about the same excitement as

:13:18.:13:28.
:13:28.:13:29.

this? Or will the event for ever eaten set up as London's games? --

:13:29.:13:38.

for ever be considered. I am now joined by two sports writer. My

:13:38.:13:46.

briefing notes say, do not mention fireworks - you get agitated?

:13:46.:13:52.

Opening ceremonies, more on than fireworks. The idea of spending �80

:13:52.:13:57.

million in the age of austerity to set a small stadium on fire. That

:13:57.:14:04.

gets me on edge! I am all for the Olympics, I just cannot stand the

:14:04.:14:09.

build up. Delusions of grandeur that people carry all around

:14:09.:14:15.

Britain at the moment. I am like a cad that is going on holiday,

:14:15.:14:21.

asking, are we there yet? Are we there yet? Once we are there, I

:14:21.:14:29.

will be fine! What is the Scottish dynamic here?

:14:29.:14:34.

It has been lost on me. I love sport but this business about the

:14:34.:14:39.

Olympic flame arriving - I have this idea of a plane arriving at

:14:39.:14:45.

Prestwick and somebody taking out a lighter and lighting it, saying, if

:14:45.:14:50.

this as sacred! I just do not get into it. I just found out the other

:14:50.:14:55.

day that the flame is going through my local village, but it means not

:14:55.:14:59.

much to me. I love the Olympics, but the idea of the Olympic flame

:14:59.:15:09.
:15:09.:15:10.

with a Celt, I do not get it. Why are they doing it?

:15:10.:15:15.

Hype. They only have 10 weeks to build up a great mass of interest

:15:15.:15:22.

in this soap opera in Lieke. They have to satisfy sponsors. They have

:15:22.:15:26.

to convince sponsors it is at the forefront of everybody's mind. That

:15:26.:15:32.

is all it is, just hype. When the real stuff starts you will get

:15:32.:15:36.

stories of substance, people overcoming odds, a great failures,

:15:36.:15:42.

the awfulness of failure, the great successes, and things like that,

:15:42.:15:52.
:15:52.:15:54.

but this at the moment, it is just I don't want is to be like a couple

:15:55.:15:59.

of old cynical journalists. Little children will be excited to allow

:15:59.:16:02.

it into the street and see the flame passing through their town or

:16:02.:16:07.

village but it is a subjective thing. When people mention the

:16:07.:16:10.

Olympic flame going through Scotland, I fail to get excited

:16:10.:16:15.

about it. What about the events themselves? Is there any evidence

:16:15.:16:23.

at all that the Olympic events have an effect, in terms of legacy, on

:16:23.:16:28.

the things that children get engaged in it down the line?

:16:28.:16:34.

thing is to take it further than that. Interest is not a problem and

:16:34.:16:38.

interest is never a problem. It is keeping them in sport that is the

:16:38.:16:42.

problem and giving them facilities to continue in sport. Everybody

:16:42.:16:46.

loves going out to play tennis during the British tennis season

:16:46.:16:53.

which encompasses two weeks in June. There are no great facilities for

:16:53.:16:59.

people to continue. At does have an effect. The idea is that before we

:16:59.:17:03.

had facilities, poverty created great sportsman, especially in

:17:03.:17:09.

football. The argument now is we need facilities to produce football.

:17:09.:17:13.

When Scotland had a vintage generation of footballers, it was

:17:13.:17:17.

social deprivation that produced that. It is strange in a way but in

:17:17.:17:21.

the modern world you do need facilities. In terms of legacy, how

:17:21.:17:28.

many times have you and I said, at child said I saw Jimmy Connors

:17:28.:17:31.

winning Wimbledon on Andy Murray doing this or that and they took

:17:31.:17:36.

inspiration from it. In terms of legacy, sportsmen claim they were

:17:36.:17:40.

inspired by things happening at Olympic Games or Ryder Cups, but

:17:40.:17:45.

whether it is true or not, may see it all the time. I may well regret

:17:45.:17:52.

this, as it not the case that footballers are now playing to a

:17:52.:17:56.

far higher standard of the game in football? The game is faster, more

:17:56.:18:02.

skilful than it was, but we have gone down at in the world level and

:18:02.:18:05.

a lot of areas which is why Andy Murray is such a beacon of hope for

:18:05.:18:11.

us. The Commonwealth Games, is the fact they're coming to Scotland

:18:11.:18:16.

making us more or indifferent? gives us the facilities we were

:18:16.:18:20.

talking about earlier and there will be facilities left as an

:18:20.:18:27.

aftermath to the Commonwealth Games. Thank you both. Graeme will be

:18:27.:18:33.

turning his face from the Olympic flame as it goes past!

:18:33.:18:38.

Documents obtained by the BBC show the authorities at RAF Kinloss in

:18:38.:18:41.

Moray knew the public could be at risk from chemical weapons buried

:18:41.:18:47.

in the area. The air bases the focus of a new investigation into

:18:47.:18:51.

radioactive contamination. That is linked to the use of glow-in-the-

:18:51.:18:55.

dark paint in World War II aircraft. The Minister air-defence the there

:18:55.:18:58.

is no indication of significant risk.

:18:58.:19:02.

It has been announced the yes campaign for the independence

:19:02.:19:06.

referendum will launch in Edinburgh this week. The SNP said will be the

:19:06.:19:10.

biggest ever community campaign. Representatives will sign a yes

:19:10.:19:14.

declaration in the capital on Friday. Alastair Darling has

:19:14.:19:18.

confirmed reports he has met with the Conservatives and Liberal

:19:18.:19:25.

Democrats. That is part of a pro- union campaign launched over the

:19:25.:19:29.

next few weeks. There will be a campaign to say we're better

:19:30.:19:35.

remaining within the UK. It will also involve the -- involved people

:19:35.:19:42.

of all political parties and people of no party affiliation. Hearts

:19:42.:19:46.

will prepared -- a Paris through Edinburgh and an open-top bus later

:19:46.:19:50.

as they celebrate their one in the Scottish Cup final. It will head

:19:50.:19:54.

from the city centre to their home ground so fans can glimpse the

:19:54.:19:58.

trophy. Fans are already gathering to join

:19:58.:20:02.

in the celebrations and see the winning team. The parade will start

:20:02.:20:06.

at the City Chambers and head up past the castle and towards the

:20:06.:20:10.

west of the city where there will be more supporters waiting. The

:20:10.:20:13.

victory bus was decorated last night and the organisers had to

:20:13.:20:17.

wait until the final result to know which colour to use. We now know

:20:17.:20:27.
:20:27.:20:34.

The weather has settled down and it will be a sunny afternoon for much

:20:34.:20:39.

of Scotland. Cloud coming and going across inland areas but not

:20:39.:20:44.

spoiling anything. Cloud towards the outer Hebrides but it will be

:20:44.:20:49.

warm in the sunshine across western Scotland. Cooler along the east

:20:49.:20:59.
:20:59.:21:00.

coast and winds will be mainly Our next scheduled a it is at

:21:00.:21:04.

6:15pm. In a moment, we will discuss the big events coming up

:21:04.:21:14.
:21:14.:21:16.

this week at Holyrood. First, a look back at the week in 60 seconds.

:21:16.:21:21.

Nicholas Budgen announced alcohol will cost at least 50p a unit, a

:21:21.:21:24.

level she says is necessary to tackle the nation's relationship

:21:24.:21:32.

with Prince. The jobless total in Scotland fell

:21:32.:21:36.

by 10,000 to 221,000. A cross-party group of MPs launched

:21:36.:21:41.

a campaign to protect the existing army structure and Scotland ahead

:21:41.:21:43.

of proposed Ministry of Defence cuts.

:21:43.:21:48.

The UK Government has published its consultation on the independence

:21:48.:21:50.

referendum and the Prime Minister says he is not bothered about the

:21:50.:21:56.

timing. The First Minister's parliamentary

:21:56.:22:00.

aide was forced to apologise to Parliament after failing to turn up

:22:00.:22:04.

to answer tabled questions. She had been having lunch with the First

:22:04.:22:09.

Minister. I realise that this is not the first time I have done this

:22:09.:22:14.

and I understand the gravity of the matter. The fault is entirely mine,

:22:14.:22:21.

I lost track of time. Looks like the big political story

:22:21.:22:28.

next week will be the launch of the yes campaign.

:22:28.:22:31.

I'm joined by the SNP blogger Kate Higgins who writes under the name

:22:31.:22:36.

BurdsEyeView. Alongside Labour cyber commentator, the lawyer Ian

:22:36.:22:45.

Smart. Thank you both for coming in. The yes campaign launches, where

:22:45.:22:50.

does it go? I have written today that I do not think you should

:22:50.:22:54.

launch a poll on Friday. The government should be focused on the

:22:54.:23:01.

bigger things that were happening in the world right now,

:23:01.:23:03.

particularly in the eurozone, and people should be given the

:23:03.:23:09.

opportunity to see what they voted for last May, which was a for a

:23:09.:23:14.

competent government. There is no rush here apart from what is in the

:23:14.:23:17.

SNP timetable. Then they need to take a moment to consider whether

:23:17.:23:22.

or not the acting in their own interests are in the interests of

:23:22.:23:27.

the people of Scotland. What do you think? I can see why they might

:23:27.:23:30.

want to get on with the yes campaign but they do not think the

:23:30.:23:35.

timing is right. Some of the commentary around after the local

:23:35.:23:39.

government elections suggested the government -- juggernaut had come

:23:39.:23:44.

to a shuddering halt. That was a bit unfair but there was a

:23:44.:23:47.

suggestion people were trying to cut the SNP down to size a little

:23:47.:23:54.

bit and get them to focus on the people's priorities. That was one

:23:54.:23:58.

of the interpretations, that people do not want any more to do with the

:23:58.:24:02.

constitution for a while. We thought you were confident and we

:24:02.:24:05.

continue to support that but once the focus away from the

:24:05.:24:11.

constitution. Do you think that is true? Are there is a certain that

:24:11.:24:15.

illogicality and the government position. If they are so concerned

:24:15.:24:20.

about independence, why not get on with it? We cannot say it is all-

:24:20.:24:23.

important but then we cannot get on with it for two-and-a-half years. I

:24:23.:24:28.

agree with Kate. There is the apocryphal story that the Press and

:24:28.:24:32.

Journal reported when the Titanic sank that an Aberdeen man was lost

:24:32.:24:38.

at sea. In the midst of these huge international events, there is an

:24:38.:24:44.

Aberdeen man lost at sea tone to it a lot of this, that the focus is to

:24:44.:24:49.

launch a campaign for a referendum that is more than two years away.

:24:49.:24:53.

With such a massive question, do you not have to give people a

:24:53.:24:57.

considerable amount of time to hear the arguments and reach their

:24:57.:25:03.

conclusions? I don't think anybody suggest that we rush it but we have

:25:03.:25:08.

just had this discussion of the long lead-in to the Olympics. That

:25:08.:25:12.

is only a matter of a couple of months now it and we're still 38

:25:12.:25:17.

months away from this. What exactly is the campaign going to consist

:25:17.:25:22.

of? A number of minor celebrities standing beside a First Minister

:25:22.:25:27.

saying the support independence? We know that! You get frustrated with

:25:27.:25:31.

the process rather than what the Government is delivering. Could the

:25:31.:25:37.

run out of steam? I think the debate is so polarised between yes

:25:37.:25:41.

and No And everybody realise we need to get it on to the middle

:25:41.:25:47.

ground. We need to get answers to some very big questions and those

:25:47.:25:51.

of us on the outside looking in would prefer it at the politicians

:25:51.:25:56.

could leave some of the partisan ideas at the door and have a

:25:57.:26:00.

serious debate about the pros and cons of independence or of staying

:26:00.:26:06.

where we are. But they need to factor in what happens with what

:26:06.:26:10.

kind of devolution and extra powers we could have if we do not go the

:26:10.:26:14.

whole way with independence. I think independence is what we

:26:14.:26:19.

should aim for but let's have a reasoned debate and a way that is

:26:19.:26:24.

inclusive and draws people in. We agree, we do not need 30 months of

:26:24.:26:29.

it and it is more likely to create apathy a rather than excitement.

:26:29.:26:32.

we look at what has been happening for the Health Secretary this week,

:26:32.:26:37.

it has been a difficult week, but it highlights again this is donate

:26:37.:26:43.

their brief. Is it right that anything wrong with the NHS has

:26:43.:26:48.

landed at the Health Secretary's door? Harold MacMillan pointed out

:26:48.:26:55.

the problem with politics is a events. The matter of whose fault

:26:55.:27:00.

it is that there is a shortage of blankets in your car hospital, it

:27:00.:27:06.

is not Nicola Sturgeon I am sure he asked for fewer blankets. It is the

:27:06.:27:11.

only way in which people can hold a degree of accountability for things

:27:11.:27:16.

like that going wrong. She has just unfortunately been left holding the

:27:16.:27:23.

baby. It is the nightmare before? Justice might be it. As a lawyer,

:27:23.:27:32.

you might say that! Do you think, the headline set is all Nicola

:27:32.:27:38.

Sturgeon's fault, but it is an uncomfortable week and also with

:27:38.:27:44.

July McCubbin. A number of ministers and the SNP Government

:27:44.:27:47.

have played above their game and the Health Secretary is one of them.

:27:47.:27:52.

She has been in command of her brief until now and I think she has

:27:53.:27:58.

actually reacted to some or all of the stories coming in and a

:27:58.:28:03.

commanding way. She has ordered a review and she'll take action after

:28:03.:28:08.

the findings of some of those areas. It is an unfortunate set of

:28:08.:28:13.

circumstances but I think there are two things. The answer, as we have

:28:13.:28:21.

seen, is not to continue to throw money at it. She has ensured that

:28:21.:28:25.

it has plenty of resources and pointed out it is not always at the

:28:25.:28:29.

right thing to do. Some significant breaking news coming in.

:28:29.:28:33.

Confirmation that the Lockerbie bomb or, the man convicted of the

:28:33.:28:39.

Lockerbie bombing, has died. Abdel Basset are Megrahi has died, the

:28:39.:28:46.

report coming in. We're just hearing about that at

:28:46.:28:56.
:28:56.:29:00.

the moment. We're still awaiting confirmation about the death of Ali

:29:00.:29:06.

abdelbaset Al-Megrahi. He was in hospital last month for a blood

:29:06.:29:08.

transfusion and we're just waiting to get that fully confirmed and

:29:08.:29:12.

will bring that to you as soon as we can.

:29:12.:29:16.

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