Browse content similar to 26/01/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
Ed Balls has gone socialist and fiscal conservative in one speech. | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
He promises to balance the biggest bit of the budget. And to bring back | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
the 50p top tax rate. Political master-stroke? Or a return to Old | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
Labour? If you go to work by public | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
transport, chances are the price of your ticket has just gone up. Again. | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
We'll speak to Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin, he's our Sunday | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
interview. And it's been another wet week | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
across much of the UK, but what's the outlook according to Nigel | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
Farage? And on Sunday Politics Scotland: | :01:10. | :01:15. | |
How will 16 and 17-year olds vote in the referendum? | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
One Labour MP predicts that they'll turn away from nationalism. We'll | :01:20. | :01:20. | |
speak to Douglas Alexander live. And with me - as always - the | :01:21. | :01:43. | |
political panel so fresh-faced, entertaining and downright popular | :01:44. | :01:45. | |
they make Justin Bieber look like a boring old has-been just desperate | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
to get your attention. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh, and | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
they'll be tweeting quicker than a yellow Lamborghini racing down Miami | :01:52. | :02:04. | |
Beach. Being political nerds, they have no idea what I'm talking about. | :02:05. | :02:11. | |
Ed Balls sprung a surprise on us all yesterday. We kinda thought Labour | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
would head for the election with a return to the 50p top rate of tax. | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
But we didn't think he'd do it now. He did! The polls say it's popular, | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
Labour activists now have a spring in their step. The Tories say it's a | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
return to the bad old days of the '70s, and bosses now think Labour is | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
anti-business. Here's the Shadow Chancellor speaking earlier this | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
morning. I was part of a Government which did very many things to open | :02:33. | :02:34. | |
up markets, to make the Bank of England independent, to work closely | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
with business, but the reality is we are in very difficult circumstances | :02:38. | :02:39. | |
and because if I'm honest you, George Osborne's failure in the last | :02:40. | :02:41. | |
few years, those difficult circumstances will last into the | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
next Parliament. Business people have said to me they want to get the | :02:46. | :02:55. | |
deficit down, of course they do. But to cut the top rate... It is foolish | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
and feeds resentment I want to do the opposite and say look, | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
pro-business, pro investment, pro market, but pro fairness. Let's get | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
this deficit down in a fairway and make the reforms to make our economy | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
this deficit down in a fairway and work for the long term. What are the | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
political implications of Labour now in favour of a 50%, in practise 352% | :03:19. | :03:25. | |
top rate of tax? One of the political implications I don't think | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
exist is that they'll win new voters. I'm not sure many people out | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
there would think, I would love to vote for Ed Miliband but I'm not | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
sure if he wants to tax rich people enough. It will con Dale their | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
existing vote but I don't think it is the kind of, in the 1990s we | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
talked about triangulation, moving beyond your core vote, I don't think | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
it is a policy like that. If there has been a policy like that this | :03:55. | :03:57. | |
year, this month, it has been the Tories' move on minimum wage. I | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
thought Labour would come back with their own version, a centre-right | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
policy, and instead they have done this. I think we talk about the 35% | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
strategy that Labour supposed will have, I think it is a policy in that | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
direction rather than the thing Tony Blair or Gordon Brown would have | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
done. Where he was not clear is on how much it would raise. We know the | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
sum in the grand scheme of things isn't much, the bedroom tax was | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
about sending a message. What we are going to see is George Osborne and | :04:36. | :04:42. | |
Ed Balls lock as they try to push the other one into saying things | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
that are unpopular. The Tories, ?150,000 a year, that's exactly | :04:49. | :04:56. | |
three main parties have roughly the three main parties have roughly the | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
same plan, to run a current budget surplus by the end of the next | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
Parliament. George Osborne said ?12 billion of welfare cuts, hasn't said | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
how he is going to do it. Ed Balls is giving an idea that he is going | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
to restore this 50 persons rate. The contribution of that will be | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
deminimus. It is not much, but what does it say about your values. | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
Because it is that package, it is cleverer than people think. Where | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
the challenge is is the question that Peter Mandelson posed at the | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
last election, which is can the Labour Party win a general election | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
if it doesn't have business on its side? That's the big challenge and | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
that's the question looking difficult for them this morning. | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
Does it matter if Labour has business on its side. I thought the | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
most fascinating thing about this announcement is it came from the guy | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
mindful of business support, Ed Balls. When in opposition and when a | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
Minister and as a shadow as a result, he's been far more conscious | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
than Ed Miliband about the need not to alienate the CB Bill. In the | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
run-up of an election. This is a measure of Ed Miliband's strength in | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
the Labour Party, that his view of things can prevail so easily over a | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
guy who for the last 15 years has taken a different view. Eight out of | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
ten businesses according to the CBI don't want us to leave business. | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
Business is in a bit of a cleft stick. Ed Miliband would like to see | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
businesses squealing, and Ed Balls is clearly not so comfortable on | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
that one. There's a difference on that. Mind you, they were squealing | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
this morning from Davos. They probably had hangovers as well. The | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
other thing they would say is this is not like Ed Balls thinks that 50p | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
is the optimal rate forever, it what go eventually. Isn't that what | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
politicians said when income tax was introduced? Yeah, in '97 Labour | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
regarded 40 persons as the rate where it would stay. | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
It's been a bad week for the Lib Dems. Again. Actually, it's been one | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
of the worst weeks yet for Nick Clegg and his party in recent | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
memory, as they've gone from talking confidently about their role in | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
Government to facing a storm of criticism over claims of | :07:18. | :07:19. | |
inappropriate sexual behaviour by a Lib Dem peer, Chris Rennard, and a | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
Lib Dem MP, Mike Hancock. Here's Giles with the story of the week. A | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
challenge to Nick Clegg's authority as he face as growing row over the | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
Liberal Democrat... I want everyone to be treated with respect by the | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
Liberal Democrats. We are expecting him to show moral leadership on our | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
behalf. A good man has been publicly destroyed by the media with the | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
apparent support of Nick Clegg. I would like Nick Clegg to show | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
leadership and say, this has got to stop. When Nick Clegg woke up on | :07:54. | :08:00. | |
Monday morning he knew he was in trouble, staring down the barrel of | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
a stand justify with Lord Rennard over allegations that the peer had | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
inappropriately touched a number of women. Chris Rennard thought he was | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
cleared. Nick Clegg wanted more. I said if he doesn't apologise, he | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
should withdraw from the House of Lords. If he does that today, what | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
do you do then? I hope he doesn't. I think no apology, no whip. 2014 was | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
starting badly for the Liberal Democrats. Chris Rennard refused to | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
apologise, saying you can't say sorry for something you haven't | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
done. The and he was leaning towards legal action. Butch us friends | :08:43. | :08:45. | |
better defending Pym and publicly. This is a good, decent man, who has | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
been punished by the party, with the leadership of the party that seems | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
to be showing scant regard for due process. But his accusers felt very | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
differently. It is untenable for the Lib Dems to have a credible voice on | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
qualities and women's issues in the future if Lord Rennard was allowed | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
to be back on the Lib Dem benches in the House of Lords. Therein lay the | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
problem that exposed the weaknesses of the Lib Dem leaders. The party's | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
internal structures have all the simplicity of a circuit diagram for | :09:21. | :09:27. | |
a supercomputer, exposing the complexity of who runs the Liberal | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
Democrats? The simple question that arose of that was can the leader of | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
the Lib Dems remove a Lib Dem peer? The simple answer is no. The Lib Dem | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
whips in the Lords could do it but if enough Lib Dem peers disagreed, | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
they could overrule it. Some long-stand ng friends of roar | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
Rennard think he is either the innocent victim of a media | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
witch-hunt or at the least due process has been ridden over rough | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
shot by the leadership. Nobody ever did spot Lord Rennard as he didn't | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
turn up to the Lords, will citing ill health. But issued a statement | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
that ruled out an apology. He refused to do so and refused to | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
comply with the outcome of that report, so there was no alternative | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
but for the party to suspend his membership today. On Wednesday Nick | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
Clegg met Lib Dem peers, not for a crunch decision, but to discuss the | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
extraordinary prospect of legal action against the party by the man | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
long credited with building its success. The situation was making | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
the party look like a joke. One Tory MP said to one of my colleagues this | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
morning, the funny thing about the Liberal Democrats, you managed to | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
create a whole sex scandal without any sex. And we can laugh at | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
ourselves but actually it is rather serious. And it got more serious, | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
when an MP who had resigned the Lib Dem whip last year was expanded from | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
the party over a report into allegations of serious and unwelcome | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
sexual behaviour towards a constituent. All of this leaves the | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
Lib Dems desperately wishing these sagas had been dealt with long ago | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
and would now go away. Nick Clegg ended the week still party leader. | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
Lord Rennard, once one of their most powerful players, ended the week, | :11:14. | :11:20. | |
for now, no longer even in it. Giles on the Lib Dems' disastrous | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
week. Now, as you doubtless already know, on Tuesday Lib Dem MPs will | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
vote to choose a new deputy leader. You didn't know that? You do now. | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
The job of Nick Clegg's number two is to speak with a genuine Lib Dem | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
voice, untainted by the demands of coalition Government. At this point | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
in the show we had expected to speak to all three candidates for the | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
post, held in recent years by party veterans like Vince Cable and Simon | :11:45. | :11:52. | |
Hughes. We thought it being quite a significant week for the party, they | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
might have something to say. And here they are. Well that's their | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
pictures. For various reasons, all three are now unavailable. Malcolm | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
Bruce, he's reckoned to be the outsider. His office said he had a | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
"family commitment". Gordon Birtwistle, the Burnley MP, was | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
booked to appear but then told us, "I was at an event last night with | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
Lorely Burt" - she's one of the candidates - "and she told me it was | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
off". And Lorely Burt herself, seen by many as the red hot favourite, | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
told us: "Because of the Rennard thing we don't want to put ourselves | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
in a position where we have to answer difficult questions." How | :12:29. | :12:40. | |
refreshingly honest. Helen, how bad politically is all this for the Lib | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
Dems? What I think is the tragic irony of the Lib Dems is they've | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
been revealed as being too democratic. In the same way that | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
their party conference embarrassed Nick Clegg by voting sings that he | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
signed up to, and now everything has to be run past various | :12:57. | :13:03. | |
sub-committees first. Is it democratic or chaotic? It is | :13:04. | :13:15. | |
Byzantine. Mike Hancock was voluntarily suspended, and this week | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
he was properly suspended. It was new information into the public | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
domain that forced that. I'm already hearing Labour and Conservative | :13:26. | :13:32. | |
Party musing that if it is a long Parliament, we will form a minority | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
Government. It is a disaster for them. Voters like parties that | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
reflect and are interested this their concerns. Parties that are | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
self obsessed turn them off. The third party, if they carry on like | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
this, they'll be the fifth party in the European elections, so they have | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
got to draw a line under this. They do that, if they do, through | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
mediation. As I understand it, Chris Rennard,s who has go devoted his | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
entire life to the Liberal Democrats, and previously the | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
Liberal Party, is keen to draw a line under this. He is up for | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
mediation but he needs to know that the women that he has clearly | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
invaded their personal space, that there wouldn't be a possible legal a | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
action from them. The it is very difficult to see how you could | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
resolve that. Except he is threatening through his friends, | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
these famous friends, to spill all the beans about all the party's sex | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
secrets. Isn't the danger for the Lib Dems, this haunts them through | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
to the European elections, where they'll get thumped in the European | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
elections? They'll get destroyed in the European elections, which keeps | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
it salient as a story over the summer. And it has implications for | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
Nick Clegg's leadership. He's done a good job until now, perhaps better | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
than David Cameron, of exercising authority over his party. He had a | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
good conference in September. Absolutely, and now the Lib Dems | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
have looked like a party without a leader or a leadership structure. | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
Part of that is down to the chaotic or Byzantine organisational | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
structure of the party. Part of it is Nick Clegg's failure to assert | :15:08. | :15:10. | |
himself and impose himself over events. Is it Byzantine or | :15:11. | :15:18. | |
Byzantine. It is labyrinthine. You don't get these words on the Today | :15:19. | :15:29. | |
programme. The cost of living has been back on the agenda this week as | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
Labour and the Tories argue over whether the value of money in your | :15:34. | :15:36. | |
pocket is going up or down. Well there's one cost which has been | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
racing ahead of inflation and that's the amount you have to pay to travel | :15:41. | :15:43. | |
by train, by bus and by air. Rail commuters have been hard hit over | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
the last four years, with the cost of the average season ticket going | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
up by 18% since January 2010, while wages have gone up by just 3.6% over | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
the same period. It means some rail users are paying high prices with | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
commuters from Kent shelling out more than ?5,000 per year from the | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
beginning of this month just to get to work in London. It doesn't | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
compare well with our European counterparts. In the UK the average | :16:12. | :16:17. | |
rail user spends 14% of their average income on trains. It is just | :16:18. | :16:25. | |
1.5% in Italy. Regulated fares like season tickets went up 3.1% at the | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
beginning of this month, and with ministers keen to make passengers | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
fought more of the bills, there are more fare rises coming down the | :16:36. | :16:38. | |
track. And Patrick McLoughlin joins me now for the Sunday Interview. | :16:39. | :16:52. | |
Welcome. You claim to be in the party of hard-working people, so why | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
is it that since you came to power rail commuters have seen the cost of | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
their average season ticket going up in money terms by over 18% while | :17:01. | :17:09. | |
their pay has gone up in money terms by less than four? I would point out | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
that this is the first year in ten years that we have not had an above | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
inflation increase on fares. The Government accepts we have got to do | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
as much as we can to help the passengers. A big inflation increase | :17:26. | :17:34. | |
since 2010. This is the first year in ten years that it has not been | :17:35. | :17:41. | |
above RPI, but we are also investing huge amounts of money into the | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
railways, building new trains for the East Coast Main Line and the | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
great Western. We are spending ?500 million at Birmingham station, this | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
is all increasing capacity, so we are seeing investments. Over the | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
next five years Network Rail will invest over ?38 billion in the | :18:02. | :18:11. | |
network structure. We also have an expensive railway and it is ordinary | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
people paying for it. A season ticket from Woking in Surrey, | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
commuter belt land in London, let's look at the figures. This is a | :18:22. | :18:28. | |
distance of over 25 miles, it cost over ?3000 per year. We have picked | :18:29. | :18:37. | |
similar distances to international cities. | :18:38. | :18:45. | |
The British commuter is being ripped off. The British commuter is seeing | :18:46. | :18:54. | |
record levels of investment in our railways. The investment has to be | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
paid for. We are investing huge amounts of money and I don't know | :19:00. | :19:02. | |
whether the figures you have got here... I'm sure they are likewise, | :19:03. | :19:20. | |
as you have managed to do... White -- ten times more than the Italian | :19:21. | :19:29. | |
equivalent. We have seen transformational changes in our | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
railway services and we need to carry on investing. We were paying | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
these prices even before you started investing. We have always paid a lot | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
more to commute in this country than our European equivalents. I'm not | :19:44. | :19:52. | |
quite sure I want to take on Italy is a great example. You would if you | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
were a commuter. You is a great example. You would if you | :19:59. | :20:04. | |
the other rates of taxation has to be paid as well. Isn't it the case | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
they are making profits out of these figures and using them to subsidise | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
cheaper fares back in their homeland? The overall profit margin | :20:15. | :20:22. | |
train companies make is 3%, a reasonable amount, and we have seen | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
a revolution as far as the railway industry is concerned. | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
a revolution as far as the railway 20 years we have seen passenger | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
journeys going from 750 million to 1.5 billion. That is a massive | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
revolution in rail. Let me look 1.5 billion. That is a massive | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
spokesperson for the German government, the Ministry of | :20:46. | :20:45. | |
transport. They are charging huge fares in | :20:46. | :21:03. | |
Britain to take that money back to subsidise fares in Germany. What do | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
you say to that? We are seeing British companies winning contracts | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
in Germany. The National Express are winning contracts to the railways. | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
What about the ordinary commuter? They are paying through the nose so | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
German commuters can travel more cheaply. We are still subsidising | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
the railways in this country, but overall we want to reduce the | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
subsidy we are giving. We are still seeing growth in our railways and I | :21:33. | :21:40. | |
want to see more people using them. Why do you increase rail fares at | :21:41. | :21:48. | |
the higher RPI measure than the lower CPI measurement? That is what | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
has always been done, and we have stopped. This is the first time in | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
ten years that we have not raised the rail figures above RPI. You | :21:58. | :22:07. | |
still link fares to RPI. You use the lower CPI figure when it suits you, | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
to keep pension payments down for example, but the higher one when it | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
comes to increasing rail fares. We are still putting a huge subsidy | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
into the rail industry, there is still a huge amount of money going | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
from the taxpayer to support the rail industry. I am not asking you | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
about that, I am asking you why you link the figures to the higher RPI | :22:33. | :22:40. | |
vesture Mark if we are going to pay for the levels of investment, so all | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
the new trains being built at Newton Aycliffe for the East Coast Main | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
Line and the great Western, ?3.5 billion of investment, new rolling | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
stock coming online, then yes, we have to pay for it, and it is a | :22:57. | :22:59. | |
question of the taxpayer paying for it all the -- or the passenger. | :23:00. | :23:14. | |
You have capped parking fines until the next election, rail commuters we | :23:15. | :23:17. | |
have seen the cost of their ticket has gone up by nearly 20%, you are | :23:18. | :23:27. | |
the party of the drivers, not the passengers, aren't you? | :23:28. | :23:34. | |
We are trying to help everybody who has been struggling. I think we are | :23:35. | :23:48. | |
setting out long-term plans for our railways, investing heavily in them | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
and it is getting that balance right. But you have done more for | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
the driver than you have for the user of public transport. I don't | :23:58. | :24:04. | |
accept that. They are paying the same petrol prices as 2011. This is | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
the first time in ten years that there has not been an RPI plus | :24:11. | :24:18. | |
rise. We are investing record amounts. Bus fares are also rising, | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
4.2% in real terms in 2010, at a time when real take-home pay has | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
been falling. This hits commuters particularly workers who use buses | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
on low incomes, another cost of living squeeze. I was with | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
Stagecoach in Manchester on Friday, and I saw a bus company investing in | :24:42. | :24:55. | |
new buses. Last week First ordered new buses. Part of your hard-working | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
families you are always on about, they are the ones going to work | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
early in the morning, and yet you are making them pay more for their | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
buses in real terms than they did before. They would be happier if | :25:12. | :25:18. | |
they could travel more cheaply. It is about getting investment in | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
services, it has to be paid for. Why not run the old buses for five more | :25:24. | :25:31. | |
years? Because then there is more pollution in the atmosphere, modern | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
buses have lower emissions, and we are still giving huge support | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
overall to the bus industry and that is very important because I fully | :25:41. | :25:43. | |
accept that the number of people, yes, use the train but a lot of | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
people use buses as well. High-speed yes, use the train but a lot of | :25:48. | :25:56. | |
two, it has been delayed because 877 pages of key evidence from your | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
department were left on a computer memory stick, part of the submission | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
to environmental consultation. Your department's economic case is now | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
widely regarded as a joke, now you do this. Is your department fit for | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
purpose? Yes, and as far as what happened with the memory stick, it | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
is an acceptable and shouldn't have happened, and therefore we have | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
extended the time. There has been an extension in the time for people to | :26:31. | :26:40. | |
make representation, the bill for this goes through Parliament in a | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
different way to a normal bill. It is vital HS2 provides what we want. | :26:45. | :26:58. | |
What I am very pleased about is when the paving bill was passed by | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
Parliament just a few months ago, there was overwhelming support, and | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
I kept reading there was going to be 70 people voting against it, in the | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
end 30 people voted against it and there was a good majority in the | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
House of Commons. So can you give a guarantee that this legislation will | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
get onto the statute books? I will do all I can. I cannot tell you the | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
exact Parliamentary time scale. The bill will have started its progress | :27:30. | :27:37. | |
through the House of Commons by 2015, and it may well have | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
concluded. The new chairman of HS2 said he can bring the cost of the | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
line substantially under the budget, do you agree with that? The figure | :27:49. | :27:58. | |
is ?42 billion with a large contingency, and David Higgins, as | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
chairman of HS2, is looking at the whole cast and seeing if there are | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
ways in which it can be built faster. At the moment across London | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
we are building Crossrail, ?14.5 billion investment. There was a | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
report last week saying what an excellent job has been done. | :28:20. | :28:27. | |
Crossrail started under Labour. Actually it was Cecil Parkinson in | :28:28. | :28:36. | |
the 1990 party conference. You may get HS2 cheaper if you didn't pay | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
people so much, why is the nonexecutive chairman of HS2 on | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
?600,000? And the new chief executive on ?750,000. These are | :28:48. | :28:55. | |
very big projects and we need to attract the best people become so we | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
are going for the best engineers in the world to engineer this project. | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
It is a large salary, there is no question about it, but I'm rather | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
pleased that engineers rather than bankers can be seen to get big | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
rewards for delivering what will be very important pieces of national | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
infrastructure. I didn't have time to ask you about your passenger duty | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
so perhaps another time. We are about to speak to Nigel Mills and | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
all of these MPs on your side who are rebelling against the | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
Government, how would you handle them? We have got to listen to what | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
our colleagues are talking about and try to respond it. Would you take | :29:37. | :29:43. | |
them for a long walk off a short pier? I'm sure I would have many | :29:44. | :29:52. | |
conversations with them. An immigration bill to tack the | :29:53. | :30:01. | |
immigration into the UK. When limits on migration from Bulgaria and | :30:02. | :30:07. | |
Romania were lifted this year there were warnings of a large influx of | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
migrant workerses from the two new European countries. So far it's been | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
more of a dribble than a flood. Who can forget Labour MP Keith Vaz | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
greeting a handful of arrivals at Luton Airport. But it is early days | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
and it is one of the reasons the Government's introduced a new | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
Immigration Bill. The Prime Minister is facing rebellion from | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
backbenchers who want tougher action on immigration from abroad. Nigel | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
Mills would reimpose restrictions on how many Romanians and Bulgarians | :30:41. | :30:52. | |
can come here. Joining me is Nigel Mills, Conservative MP behind the | :30:53. | :30:55. | |
amendment and Labour MP Diane Abbott. Welcome. Nigel Mills, there | :30:56. | :31:03. | |
hasn't been an influx of Romanians and Bulgarians. Why do you want to | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
restore these, kick these transitional controls way forward to | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
2019? I don't think any of us were expecting a rush on January 1st, | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
Andrew. I think we were talking about a range of 250,000 to 350,000 | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
people over five years. That's obviously a large amount of people, | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
especially when you think net migration to the UK was well in | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
excess of the Government's target of tens of thousands last year. The | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
real concern is that it would be ever increasing our population, | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
attracting lots of low-skilled, low-wage people, which keeps our | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
people out of work and wages down. Did you accept that if you were to | :31:47. | :31:52. | |
accept this, it would be in breach of the Treaty of Rome, the founding | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
principle of the European Union? We were trying to keep the restrictions | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
that Bulgaria and Romania accepted for their first seven years of EU | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
membership, on the basis that when we signed the treaty we weren't | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
aware that we would have a huge and catastrophic recession we are still | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
recovering from. But you would be in breach of the law, correct? The UK | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
Parliament has a right to say we signed this deal before the terrible | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
recession, and we need a bit longer in our national interest. It is | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
worth noting that Bulgaria and Romania haven't met all their | :32:28. | :32:35. | |
accession requirements. The Bulgarian requirement passed a | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
law... So if they break the law it is alright for us to break the law? | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
Is we should be focusing on trying to get 2. 4 million of our own in | :32:44. | :32:50. | |
work, and 1 million people not in work... Let me bring in Diane | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
Abbott. Will you vote for this amendment and why? It is in breach | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
of the treaty. While I deplore MPs that try to cause trouble, these MPs | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
have been particularly mindless, because what they want to do | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
wouldn't be legal. However, it is a Tory internal brief, if I might say | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
so. Maybe you can cause trouble by voting for it. No, that would be | :33:15. | :33:21. | |
going too far. Underlying it is a real antagonism for David Cameron. | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
They have had to hold off on this bill until January. It was supposed | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
to be debating before Christmas. As we speak they've not cut a deal, so | :33:30. | :33:35. | |
it could be pretty grus om. Nigel Mills, what do you say to that I | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
think there is a recognition that there is a problem with the amount | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
of migration from EU countries that we need to tackle. We could try to | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
achieve an annual cap perhaps, longer limits on when countries get | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
free movement. I think the debate is moving in the | :33:54. | :34:05. | |
People are worried now about the level of immigration over the years, | :34:06. | :34:12. | |
they think it has got too high. That is the consensus in the country. | :34:13. | :34:18. | |
Someone in your constituency says that struggling to cope with numbers | :34:19. | :34:24. | |
of people wanting to is their services. The truth is that in the | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
past years, EU migrants put in more to the economy in taxation and they | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
take out in benefits. When it comes to free movement in the EU, that | :34:35. | :34:42. | |
horse has bolted. We signed a treaty. There is nothing that people | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
can do unless they want to rip their party apart. Will you go so far as | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
to your party apart? Will you take this all the way? Would you rather | :34:54. | :35:01. | |
see this bill go down? I think this is an important bill. There are a | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
lots of measures in there that we want on the statute book. The last | :35:05. | :35:10. | |
thing I want to see is the building down. But we do need to set out | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
clearly that we have concerns about EU migration and something needs to | :35:16. | :35:25. | |
be done. Would you rather have without your amendment on the bill | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
at all? I hope we can have it with the amendments. I think it will | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
depend on what the Labour Party decided to do. They need to talk | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
tough on immigration and we will see whether they will take any action. | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
Your party has been talking tough on immigration, but I would be | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
surprised if I'm Ed Miliband Labour Party would vote for anything in | :35:49. | :35:56. | |
concert of the Treaty of Rome. He is wishing for the impossible. I was a | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
Tory whip I would be running my hands. He has not ruled out crashing | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
the bill, that is incredible. Where will this end? It will end with a | :36:07. | :36:13. | |
vote on Thursday. There are different amendments now, I think | :36:14. | :36:20. | |
what we should be doing is taking some limited and proportionate | :36:21. | :36:23. | |
action which is what I have been proposing. I want this bill on the | :36:24. | :36:31. | |
statute book. We need to sort out the rights to a... I don't want to | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
crash the bill. There are more measures that are needed. Thank you | :36:39. | :36:39. | |
for that. Good morning and welcome to Sunday | :36:40. | :36:47. | |
Politics Scotland. Coming up on the programme: Children of the digital | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
age. What is influencing our young voters | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
in the run up to the referendum? Douglas Alexander joins us live to | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
argue why he thinks first time voters will reject nationalism. | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
And we'll be speaking live to the newly-elected MSP for Cowdenbeath | :37:02. | :37:03. | |
and asking what are his priorities for the area? | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
The Labour MP and Shadow foreign secretary will make a speech to a | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
Better Together rally later today claiming the premise that 16 and | :37:14. | :37:16. | |
17-year-olds are more likely to vote Yes in the referendum is mistaken. | :37:17. | :37:19. | |
Douglas Alexander will tell his audience that today's generation of | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
young people are a "network" generation, connected to the world | :37:23. | :37:24. | |
through technology, and not a nationalist one. In a moment we'll | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
be speaking to Douglas Alexander, but first let's hear some views on | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
the subject, including two first-time voters. | :37:33. | :37:39. | |
In the beginning, the idea of allowing younger people to vote was | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
controversial. Some questioned whether they were responsible enough | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
to make decisions about Scotland's future. What are they going to do | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
with the power? We only have one serious attempt to get at the | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
preferences with respect to the referendum of those who will be 16 | :37:57. | :38:03. | |
or 17 come September. Actually, the survey suggested that this age group | :38:04. | :38:10. | |
at least was something between six and ten points less likely been in | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
favour of independence than the adult population. Young people are | :38:15. | :38:21. | |
wanting to hear more about how independents will actually directly | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
affect them. Will it increase their job opportunities? Will it increase | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
their hope? There is a lot of hopelessness and alienation. They | :38:31. | :38:37. | |
want to see whether there will be change in Scotland to independents. | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
We asked to vote is to be what issues will influence their views? | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
Money is the big matter. Without money, we cannot fund public | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
services like the NHS, free tuition access for. We don't have enough | :38:54. | :39:03. | |
money to fund the Scottish students, they will have to pay for | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
their own tuition fees. For me it is about equality and I feel the only | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
way we can get an equal and fair Scotland is through independence. I | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
feel the people of Scotland should run Scotland and if that means we | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
are less wealthy, though I don't believe that would be the case, I | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
think that is a risk to take. They seem relaxed about the idea of | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
national identity. I don't really think that we need to define | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
ourselves as being members of just one country. Right now, every | :39:36. | :39:43. | |
country is multicultural. You can find people from all over the world | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
in any nation. Even if you say, I am Scottish, if you go far back and | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
asked, we all just migrants For me, it is about being national pride. I | :39:54. | :40:00. | |
understand people that say it is not all about identity any don't have to | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
label yourself, you can just be sure you are. In a make up a small part | :40:05. | :40:11. | |
of the electorate, but it will be the youngest voters who lived | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
longest with the results. Joining me now is the man who'll be | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
making that speech this afternoon - Labour MP Douglas Alexander. You are | :40:20. | :40:22. | |
saying that the decision to give them the vote is backfiring on the | :40:23. | :40:29. | |
SNP. What a basing that on? The largest and most comp rancid survey | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
taken under Edinburgh University, many opinion polls indicate a couple | :40:35. | :40:43. | |
of things. First of all, young Scots are comfortable in their Scottish | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
identity. They are secure and proud of our sense of Scottish list. Those | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
of us who grew up in the 1980s felt that our identity was under threat. | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
I have learned from talking to young Scots how comfortable and confident | :41:01. | :41:08. | |
they are in their identity. This is a generation that has -- that is | :41:09. | :41:17. | |
comfortable with a layered identity. Independence does not change that. | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
It does undermine the argument that the youngest group of voters are | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
uniquely and distinctively Scottish. We are all passionately and proudly | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
Scottish, but they like many of us are pragmatic in terms of seeing in | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
the modern world where we are interconnected in a way unimaginable | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
a generation ago, we do not have to choose between being Scottish or | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
Scottish and British or even European. It was clear from when | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
this was announced that the votes of the 16 and 17-year-olds was not | :41:51. | :41:58. | |
going to be decisive. I supported for the AV referendum 16-year-olds | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
having the vote. I think it is right that they have their say in the | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
referendum. Has the premise of the article being overtaken by today's | :42:10. | :42:16. | |
poll in Scotland On Sunday? It has the largest swing we have seen | :42:17. | :42:24. | |
towards yes. This poll suggests a jump of 26% from 18 to 44%. If you | :42:25. | :42:35. | |
read what Professor Curtis said, he said this was a very small sample of | :42:36. | :42:47. | |
16 to 25-year-old. I am not complacent. That suggests to me that | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
all of us have more work to do in the remaining days. There is no | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
ground for complacency. The stakes are very high. You cannot change | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
your mind after a few years. A decision to break up the country | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
will be for ever. You see in your article that young people fear an | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
independent Scotland would be a narrowing, not broadening | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
experience. We are in a distinctive position. We are part of a | :43:18. | :43:22. | |
multicultural multinational, multiethnic country. I am asking you | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
to back-up the claim that there would be a narrowing experience. | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
Which country has that been a for? Overwhelmingly, young people made | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
clear that they wanted to be part of something bigger, as well as feeling | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
pride of what they are part of here in Scotland. For me, there is no | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
choice between being comfortable in that. You can support different | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
football teams, that is the young generation, they feel they can have | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
it all. You quote a survey, that survey and others shows a desire | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
amongst the public for more powers if there is a no vote. Which powers | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
would you like to see devolved? We have a commission looking at this. | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
With the proposals coming through, there will be a shift of powers to | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
Edinburgh. I have said for many months but I hope the commission | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
will come up with proposals for the Scottish Labour Party at the Perth | :44:21. | :44:26. | |
conference for enhanced devolution. Devo Max is more discussed than | :44:27. | :44:33. | |
defined by many people, we need to look at the practical changes that | :44:34. | :44:37. | |
will make a practical difference to people's lives. Potentially welfare, | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
it is only a matter of weeks until the recommendations are brought | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
forward. Whether it is taxation or welfare or some of the proposals | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
that Gordon Brown spoke about in Cowdenbeath I think all of those | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
should be on the table. The SNP are highlighting comments made by Jim | :44:57. | :45:02. | |
Gallagher, they say that he said the idea of Scotland winning some vision | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
of Devo Max is fantastical. His argument at the time being that | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
Westminster would not go for it. You can promise, Labour in Scotland can | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
promise what they want, but can make guaranteed that Westminster will | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
back it? Will be less than nine months left for this Government on | :45:21. | :45:32. | |
December 18 -- September 18. In terms of delivering the package, I | :45:33. | :45:35. | |
do believe that there are grounds for optimism in terms of what we can | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
see and deliver. But there are no guarantees, are there? What we're | :45:41. | :45:47. | |
talking about is the central paradox of Scottish politics is that | :45:48. | :45:50. | |
Scotland wants change. I am desperate to see change from the | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
conservative coalition Government. But the majority of Scots don't want | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
the destructive change that the Nationalists are offering. Our | :46:00. | :46:02. | |
responsibility is to offer the desirable change that Scottish | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
voters want. I believe that involves enhanced devolution and also social | :46:06. | :46:12. | |
and economic change. We have an obligation to set out the kind of | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
practical changes like Ed Miliband talked about that would make a real | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
difference to the lives and opportunities of Scots. But an | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
honest politician would also tell the public that they may not be able | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
to deliver this. It is up to the Scottish people to make their | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
decision. I hope and believe we will reject the independence. Then we | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
have a chance... Opinion polls have shown for more than two years that | :46:39. | :46:41. | |
the prospect of change at Westminster is real. The | :46:42. | :46:47. | |
Nationalists are trying to equate antipathy to the Conservatives as a | :46:48. | :46:50. | |
requirement to vote for yes in the referendum. The truth is I think the | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
Scottish people are wiser than that. We can differentiate between the | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
deep anger many others feel hold towards the conservative Government | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
that have less than nine months left to run and it permits tries to break | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
up the country. I think that is why the majority of Scots are opposing | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
independence, but I think they are very clear that he wants change and | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
that involves constitutional change and it falls to Scottish Labour to | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
assume that mantle of responsibility. On the change that | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are proposing, this talk of returning to | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
the 50p tax rate, is that a political or economic decision? I | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
think it is a very sensible decision. While we are dealing with | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
the deficit, and it was framed in the context of dealing with the | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
deficit, it would be right, let me finish, it is right for those with | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
the broadest shoulders to bear a heavy responsibility. So it is | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
political? it is part of a strategy to deal with the deficit and | :47:55. | :47:57. | |
continued to deliver a fairer society in these tough times. The | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
estimates as to how much it will yield go between ?100 million and ?1 | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
billion. But most people watching that people earning over ?50,000, | :48:08. | :48:15. | |
will think that is OK. Thank you for coming in to speak to us. Well, | :48:16. | :48:22. | |
listening to that interview was SNP MSP Marco Biagi who joins us from | :48:23. | :48:28. | |
our Edinburgh studio. Do you accept that with younger | :48:29. | :48:36. | |
voters the Yes campaign has a mountain to climb? Young people have | :48:37. | :48:46. | |
heard the arguments. In every case they swing strongly towards the Yes | :48:47. | :48:59. | |
campaign. 11,000 school pupils in Aberdeenshire, rejected your | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
proposition. These surveys over the last year have not shown that the | :49:05. | :49:11. | |
entire population has been one round. The survey this morning shows | :49:12. | :49:18. | |
the kind of progress that the Yes campaign has made. Young people are | :49:19. | :49:27. | |
no different to anybody else. Do you accept the point being made by | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
Douglas Alexander in terms of the sample size of this survey? It is | :49:31. | :49:39. | |
not a one off. It is a small sample. There has been a consistent trend in | :49:40. | :49:48. | |
these debates. Young people want to talk about what Scotland can | :49:49. | :49:57. | |
achieve. Young people see the No campaign as similar to a teacher | :49:58. | :50:07. | |
that tells you what you cannot do. They young person that we spoke to | :50:08. | :50:12. | |
who is going to vote against independence says he wants answers | :50:13. | :50:15. | |
in terms of the finance of independence. More flesh on the bone | :50:16. | :50:24. | |
is needed. Young people hear both sides. They hear the financial | :50:25. | :50:34. | |
argument. Scotland receives 9.3% of the spending that contributes 9.9% | :50:35. | :50:43. | |
of the funding. The question of identity seems to be at the | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
forefront of the No campaign. The only people making this an issue of | :50:50. | :50:56. | |
identity is the No campaign. What is the position of the SNP if there is | :50:57. | :51:07. | |
a No vote? Does the SNP become a campaign group for increased | :51:08. | :51:16. | |
devolution? You continue to believe what you believe. I will still hold | :51:17. | :51:26. | |
true to my principles. But you keep telling us that surveys suggest that | :51:27. | :51:33. | |
people want more powers for the Scottish Parliament. We are putting | :51:34. | :51:48. | |
independence to the people. You have rejected the Constitutional | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
Convention. You are saying that if there is a No vote you will not | :51:53. | :51:55. | |
campaign for more powers for the Scottish Parliament. The other | :51:56. | :52:05. | |
parties are engaged in a confidence trick. The only way we will have a | :52:06. | :52:14. | |
concrete proposal is if there is I guess vote for independence. -- if | :52:15. | :52:21. | |
there is a Yes vote for independence. Labour is talking | :52:22. | :52:29. | |
about 50p tax rate if they are returned to power in 2015. In an | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
independent Scotland should those with the broadest shoulders pay | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
more? The UK is the fourth most equal -- the UK is the fourth most | :52:41. | :52:52. | |
unequal country in the OECD. There will be an SNP Government for at | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
least two mackerel years until Independence Day. Do you support the | :52:59. | :53:06. | |
50p tax rate? That was introduced by the Labour Party more as a trap for | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
the Tories. It was only in effect for nine months. It came at the same | :53:12. | :53:20. | |
time as a VAT hike that hit ordinary working people up and down the | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
country. Fight you for joining us. -- thank | :53:26. | :53:32. | |
you for joining us. "We need more information" - that's | :53:33. | :53:35. | |
a familiar refrain in this referendum campaign. In Glasgow this | :53:36. | :53:38. | |
weekend, women from across the country searched for answers. At the | :53:39. | :53:41. | |
Scottish Women's Convention event, the deputy First Minister said, | :53:42. | :53:43. | |
under independence, she would argue for at least 40 per cent of places | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
on boards to be occupied by women. Labour, under the "Better Together" | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
banner, said staying in the UK meant more would be done to make pay | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
equal. Laura Maxwell has more. Hands up for the truth legend Mark | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
how will my country, society and family benefit? The economy, free | :54:01. | :54:11. | |
education, childcare. This debate is taking place away from what is | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
described as the usual meal power struggles. -- the usual Machell | :54:17. | :54:29. | |
power struggles. What we know is their respective of | :54:30. | :54:36. | |
whether it is I guess vote or a No vote the political landscape will be | :54:37. | :54:46. | |
altered for ever. With the two opposing sides present how did they | :54:47. | :54:57. | |
lay out their vision? Women are rightly asking hard questions. | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
Audiences of women are always tough audiences. I believe that if we can | :55:03. | :55:08. | |
persuade a majority of women that independence is the right thing for | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
Scotland then we will win the referendum. I am confident of doing | :55:13. | :55:18. | |
that. Many women across Scotland now from being in control of household | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
budgets how important it is to make your own decisions rather than | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
allowing decisions to be taken elsewhere. That is the key message. | :55:26. | :55:31. | |
We have got big questions to ask ourselves. We need to ask about the | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
protection of our pensions. Also, Labour would make strong | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
commitments. We need to step up the pace on low pay. We would introduce | :55:43. | :55:53. | |
contracts to incentivise. We would protect pregnant women at work. | :55:54. | :56:05. | |
In an independent Scotland we can create a new culture. We can create | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
a better environment. We can create somewhere that is more optimistic. I | :56:11. | :56:19. | |
am still undecided. Today the Yes campaign is quite strong. But there | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
are a lot of questions that have not been answered. I might still be | :56:25. | :56:31. | |
undecided until September. I believe that we are Better Together. The | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
four nations work very well together at the moment. The issues are not | :56:37. | :56:44. | |
solely for women to debate. The point of the conference was not to | :56:45. | :56:47. | |
change minds, just revived the space for the debate to take place. | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
You're watching Sunday Politics Scotland and the time is coming up | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
for Midday. So let's cross now for the news. | :56:56. | :57:09. | |
Environmental campaigners have published league tables which they | :57:10. | :57:11. | |
say identify Scotland's most polluted streets. | :57:12. | :57:14. | |
Friends of the Earth Scotland have warned their research shows air | :57:15. | :57:17. | |
pollution from vehicles is a major threat to health, even in some | :57:18. | :57:20. | |
smaller towns and villages. The Scottish Government says pollution | :57:21. | :57:22. | |
is falling, but the pressure group is calling for urgent action. | :57:23. | :57:33. | |
Missing health targets in Perth, even in small villagers in some | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
parts of West Lothian. It is surprising where you can find an air | :57:40. | :57:47. | |
pollution Rob Wharne. -- and air pollution problem. | :57:48. | :57:55. | |
Our republican march has taken place. -- a republican march. The | :57:56. | :58:03. | |
organisers had hoped to march through the West End, but the | :58:04. | :58:16. | |
council refused that. A rare medieval gravestone is | :58:17. | :58:19. | |
leaving its home in Glasgow for the first time in its 1000 year history. | :58:20. | :58:25. | |
The "hogback" is being moved to London to form part of an exhibition | :58:26. | :58:28. | |
on Vikings at the British Museum. The ornately carved half-tonne stone | :58:29. | :58:31. | |
is one of five, on permanent display in Govan Old Parish Church. | :58:32. | :58:37. | |
is one This afternoon there will be | :58:38. | :58:40. | |
blustery showers. There will be some sunny spells. It will feel quite | :58:41. | :58:54. | |
cold. Met office warnings are in force around the coast. More rain in | :58:55. | :58:59. | |
the North West. Wintry everywhere else. | :59:00. | :59:07. | |
There was no surprises at Cowdenbeath last week. The Labour | :59:08. | :59:10. | |
party cruised to victory and increased their majority. The win | :59:11. | :59:13. | |
was very much predicted, but perhaps not the extent. The SNP, after | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
almost seven years in Government, didn't expect much, but fought back | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
with a doorstep poll which showed 41 per cent support for independence. | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
In a moment we'll speak to the winner, but first Andrew Kerr was | :59:25. | :59:27. | |
there on the night. Here's his report. | :59:28. | :59:35. | |
I declare Alex Rowley to be elected to serve in the Cowdenbeath | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
constituency. All his life and labour man and now an elected party | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
representative. Alex Rowley knew he was bound to win, but made it clear | :59:46. | :59:50. | |
he did not take the people of the Cowdenbeath constituency for | :59:51. | :59:58. | |
granted. Unemployment, youth unemployment, the threat to jobs, | :59:59. | :00:01. | |
these are big concerns. Good news for the leadership. They believe | :00:02. | :00:06. | |
Scots are falling back in love with Labour. The turnout was very cool at | :00:07. | :00:13. | |
35%. Labour was heartened by the swing of 11% to them. It is | :00:14. | :00:20. | |
important to treat people with respect and not take them for | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
granted. But there is no doubt that the scale of the victory is very | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
significant. For the SNP it was always a difficult one. Cowdenbeath | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
did not fall into their hands in 2011 and it was not likely to do so | :00:34. | :00:40. | |
on Thursday night. They consoled themselves and tried to project a | :00:41. | :00:48. | |
positivity. Their own doorstep Paul suggested 41% would vote in favour | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
of independence at the referendum. # or their own doorstep survey | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
suggested. There are a lot of traditional Labour borders who have | :00:59. | :01:09. | |
said that they are thinking about voting yes in the referendum. Alex | :01:10. | :01:15. | |
Rowley might be the victor tonight, but I believe all of Scotland will | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
be celebrating a Yes vote in September. Are you interested in | :01:22. | :01:31. | |
politics? Not really. The European election in May is the next test of | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
opinion. It will be a worrying time for the Liberal Democrats. The | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
Conservatives were happy with third place. For the main man, time to | :01:42. | :01:49. | |
take his seat in Holyrood. His first task, he says, will be to help | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
people affected by the so-called bedroom tax. | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
Joining me now is the latest MSP Alex Rowley. | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
Given the turnout of less than 35% you cannot use this as an indicator | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
of how people are feeling towards the Labour Party. We foster positive | :02:07. | :02:14. | |
campaign. The response on the doorstep was positive towards | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
Labour. We have a long way to go, but we are making good progress. | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
This SNP survey suggests that many traditional Labour voters will vote | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
yes in September. What do you surveys tell you? We talked to | :02:29. | :02:36. | |
thousands of people. There were a large majority in favour of their No | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
vote. There were a lot of and answered questions. I do not think | :02:43. | :02:52. | |
we can take anything for granted. Do you accept the premise of which is | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
that there might be people who will vote Labour in elections, but may | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
well vote against the Labour Party position in September? That also | :03:00. | :03:08. | |
applies the other way. I came across people who told me they voted SNP | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
that they would not favour independence. The key thing is that | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
over these next couple of months we have two have a positive campaign. | :03:17. | :03:25. | |
People are looking for answers. We need to set out clearly what Labour | :03:26. | :03:27. | |
's vision is for the future of Scotland. How concerned should you | :03:28. | :03:35. | |
be with the survey in Scotland on Sunday newspaper which is suggesting | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
a swing of 5% in the last four months towards a Yes vote? Is their | :03:41. | :03:49. | |
complacency? We should not be complacent. That was not the message | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
I was picking up on the doorsteps. There are a lot of people who have | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
not decided. There are a lot of questions that have not been | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
answered. It is crucial for Labour to set out its vision. That is what | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
I intend to do in the coming months. Much was made of local | :04:07. | :04:16. | |
issues in this campaign. Realistically, as MSP, you cannot | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
deliver change on that front, can you? Debris is issue that front, can | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
you? Debris is issued else come across on the doorsteps was the | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
level of unemployment. Realistically, there is something | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
that can be done. What can you as a backbencher do? We need to look at | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
the youth guarantee that has been given. They need to look at a | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
college funding. We need to look at partnerships with employers. These | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
are all issues that I will be raising. The first thing I will be | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
doing is signing the bill in terms of the bedroom tax as I think that | :04:58. | :05:04. | |
is an inhumane attack. There are real things that we can do. Thank | :05:05. | :05:12. | |
you. Now, in a moment, we'll be | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
discussing the big events coming up this week, but first let's take a | :05:17. | :05:26. | |
look back at the Week In 60 Seconds. Intelligence whistle-blower Edward | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
Snowden is to stand for the post of rectal at Glasgow University. | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
Elections for the position will take place next month. | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
Public Health Minister Michael Matheson launched a new campaign to | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
encourage more pubs to sell wine in smaller measures. Many people go in | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
for a glass of wine and are only offered a medium or large glass, by | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
introducing this smaller size, it allows people to make an informed | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
choice. The Scottish Green Party called for football fans to be given | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
the first right to buy their clubs during consultation on the land will | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
reform. An environmental report recommended | :06:06. | :06:07. | |
new proposals for dealing with contamination on a beach. Gordon | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
Brown is calling for a clean-up to be financed by the Ministry of | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
defence. Police Scotland announced the intent | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
to close six control rooms as part of efforts to save up to ?73 million | :06:21. | :06:27. | |
by 2026. And coming up this week on BBC Two | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
Scotland is the first in a series of documentaries on the independence | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
referendum. Events that helped shape our nation. | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
There was a sense that we were opening up and are looking out at | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
the world. In the first of a series, we ask how the events led us | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
to one of the most important votes in Scottish history? Britain now has | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
oil. People started to be more confident about their pride in | :06:57. | :07:06. | |
Scotland. Scotland's Smoking Gun. Let's look at the weekend. | :07:07. | :07:14. | |
I'm joined by our guests, columnist and former newspaper editor, Magnus | :07:15. | :07:16. | |
Linklater, and Burdz Eye View blogger, Kate Higgins. | :07:17. | :07:26. | |
Let's talk about that programme. The premise being that events over the | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
last 30 years have led us to this independence referendum, is that the | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
premise you agree with? Up to a point. There was one unexpected | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
event which to place in 2011 which is the SNP winning an overall | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
majority. I don't think anybody expected that. Up until then, there | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
was a steady progress for the -- a steady progress. As a long-time | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
supporter and independent supporter, were you surprised by this? I think | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
everyone was surprised by the overall majority. While there had | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
been a convergence of different factors, we should not underestimate | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
the importance of the cultural flourishing. It was the same in the | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
1980s that gave rise to Scotland United and gave Alf -- and helped | :08:16. | :08:23. | |
galvanise. You have a huge flourishing of support for | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
independence and I think the mood music from cultural aspects is very | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
important to the direction of travel. They'll be more discussion | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
when it airs. Let's talk about events this week | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
and Mark Carney the governor of the Bank of England meeting Alex | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
Salmond. Alex Salmond wants a currency union with the pound. There | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
are reports that the governor named the cool on the idea, comparing it | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
to the euro, which has had problems due to fiscal issues in member | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
states. I presume Mark Carney will be wary of expressing to build an | :08:56. | :09:03. | |
opinion. Yes, but he seems to be hardening his line. He is now | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
suggesting that there would be significant obstacles to Scotland | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
joining a currency union and I think what he is hinting there is not that | :09:13. | :09:19. | |
Scotland would not be able to join a monetary union, but that it would be | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
a very hard negotiation before it gets in and that the conditions | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
imposed by the bank of England would perhaps be far tougher than Alex | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
Salmond has indicated. I think that is the problem. It is a political | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
problem. Is it the best solution? I think it is the only solution. I | :09:38. | :09:44. | |
cannot see a Scottish pound being able to survive initially. Joining | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
the Euro, I don't think any Scots would want that. I think it has to | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
be the pound, but I think it will be tough. People like Jim Sellers: For | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
a Scottish pound. Is this a solution that nationalists would want to? The | :09:59. | :10:05. | |
short term solution of joining the starlings and is absolutely the | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
right thing to do. Just on Mark Carney's intervention, let us make | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
this clear, he is not a foreign dignitary, we help pay his wages, he | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
has a duty to represent the whole of the argument to the whole of the UK. | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
And that is also to represent Scotland's interests. Indeed. He is | :10:26. | :10:32. | |
an independent voice though. Alex Salmon keeps making the argument | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
that if he disagrees as an independent voice, he should be | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
saying so. And as an independent voice, he has a duty to present all | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
of the arguments and not just one camp's. Let's look at this opinion | :10:49. | :10:55. | |
poll. It is a poll for Scotland on Sunday. It suggests a large swing | :10:56. | :11:07. | |
towards yes. I presume you and others will be ecstatic. Absolutely. | :11:08. | :11:14. | |
It has come a bit later in the day then perhaps we would have liked to | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
have seen. But they have always talked about momentum, not about | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
game changes or a Eureka moment. These small-scale conversations and | :11:25. | :11:31. | |
not fighting a air war, fighting a grand battle to engage with people | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
and communities. It seems to be bearing fruit. We are only shifting | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
voters from no into undecided, but when you take what they would prefer | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
to happen were they to choose now, clearly people are leaning towards | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
independence and there are eight months to go. Those figures strip | :11:50. | :11:59. | |
out the do not knows. Clearly, they are the battle ground. There are two | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
caveats at about this poll, it is a small sample and the big swing is | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
amongst younger voters. That is always the most volatile part of any | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
poll. That can change either way. It is under 44s. Yes. Interestingly, a | :12:18. | :12:26. | |
little swing by women voters who appear to be unhappy about the no | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
campaign. I think this is interesting. I think there is a sort | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
of worry, there are definite nerves in the no campaign about their | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
arguments. It was quite well put by Jim Murphy over the weekend when he | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
said that it is quite difficult to mount a yes campaign for a vote for | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
no. I think that is the problem for the no campaign, they really have | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
too find a positive argument. There is a big push towards women voters. | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
We saw the conference yesterday. Nicola Sturgeon talking about an | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
independent Scotland, a requirement of companies having 42 cents | :13:07. | :13:08. | |
representation of women on boards. Is that workable? Absolutely. In | :13:09. | :13:17. | |
Norway, they moved to 40% and it changed the culture. These are the | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
kind of measures we want to see. Women have a right to an equal place | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
in our society and that means pay and representation. These arguments | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
will start winning over women's votes. Just a brief word. Naked | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
political opportunism. They know that they have to win more women | :13:38. | :13:44. | |
voters. Thank you for joining us. That is it from us. I will be back | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
at the same time next week. You enjoyed what is left Sunday. For | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
now. -- I do hope you enjoyed. | :13:56. | :13:58. |