02/03/2014 Sunday Politics Scotland


02/03/2014

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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Fears that Ukraine

:00:35.:00:40.

could face invasion escalate this morning as Russian forces take

:00:41.:00:43.

control of Crimea. President Obama and his European allies tell

:00:44.:00:46.

President Putin to back off. It doesn't sound like he's listening.

:00:47.:00:52.

Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt has started spelling out

:00:53.:00:55.

Labour's plans for schools. So what's the verdict - full marks, or

:00:56.:01:00.

must try harder? He joins us for the Sunday Interview. And all the big

:01:01.:01:06.

political parties are desperate to broaden their appeal. We'll look at

:01:07.:01:09.

some unusual ideas for freshening up those tired old party logos.

:01:10.:01:12.

And coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland: As the new interactive

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visitor centre at Bannockburn opens its doors, we ask whether concerns

:01:19.:01:21.

over the commemoration event are justified.

:01:22.:01:46.

Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. Instead of acceptance

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speeches they'll be tweeting faster than the tears roll down Gwyneth

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Paltrow's face. Yes, that's as luvvie as we get on this show.

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Events have been moving quickly in Ukraine this weekend. The interim

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government in Kiev has put the Ukrainian military on full combat

:02:03.:02:04.

alert after Russia's parliament rubber-stamped the deployment of

:02:05.:02:10.

Russian troops anywhere in Ukraine. Russian troops seem already to be in

:02:11.:02:12.

control of the mainly Russian-speaking Crimea region,

:02:13.:02:15.

where Russia has a massive naval base. President Obama told President

:02:16.:02:19.

Putin that Russia has flouted international law by sending in

:02:20.:02:21.

Russian troops but the Kremlin is taking no notice. This is now

:02:22.:02:28.

turning into the worst stand-off between Russia and the West since

:02:29.:02:31.

the conflict between Georgia and Russia in 2008, though nobody

:02:32.:02:34.

expects any kind of military response from the West. Foreign

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Secretary William Hague is on his way to Kiev this morning to show his

:02:42.:02:43.

support for the new government, though how long it will survive is

:02:44.:02:47.

another matter. We can speak to our correspondent David Stern, he's in

:02:48.:02:54.

Kiev. As things look from Kiev, can we

:02:55.:03:00.

take it they've lost Crimea, it is now in all essence under Russian

:03:01.:03:08.

control? Yes, well for the moment, Crimea is under Russian control.

:03:09.:03:12.

Russian troops in unmarked uniforms have moved throughout the peninsula

:03:13.:03:20.

taking up various positions, also at the Ismis which links Ukraine into

:03:21.:03:27.

Crimea. They've surrounded Ukrainon troops there. Three units have been

:03:28.:03:31.

captured according to a top officials. We can say at the moment

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Russia controls the peninsula. It should also be said, also they have

:03:37.:03:41.

the support of the ethnic Russian population. The ethnic Russians make

:03:42.:03:45.

up the majority of the population. They are also not entirely in

:03:46.:03:50.

control because there are other groups, namely the Tatar as and the

:03:51.:03:57.

ethnic Ukrainian speakers who are at least at the moment tacitly

:03:58.:04:03.

resisting. We'll see what they'll start to do in the coming days.

:04:04.:04:09.

David, I'm putting up some pictures showing Russian troops digging in on

:04:10.:04:15.

the border between Crimea and Ukraine. I get the sense that is

:04:16.:04:19.

just for show. There is, I would assume, no possibility that the

:04:20.:04:26.

Ukrainians could attempt to retake Crimea by military force? It seems

:04:27.:04:31.

that the Ukrainians are weighing their options right now. Their

:04:32.:04:37.

options are very limited. Any head-to-head conflict with Russia

:04:38.:04:40.

would probably work against the Ukrainians. They seem to be taking

:04:41.:04:45.

more of a long-term gain. They are waiting for the figs's first move.

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They are trying not to create any excuse that the Russians can stage

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an even larger incursion into Crimea or elsewhere, for that matter. They

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also seem to be trying to get international support. It should be

:05:01.:05:04.

said, this is a new Government. It has only been installed this week.

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They are trying to gain their footing. This is a major crisis.

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They have to count on the loyalty of the army they might have some

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resistance from solders from the eastern part of the country who are

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Russian speaking. They probably could count on Ukrainian speakers

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and people from the centre and west of the country as well as regular

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Ukrainians. A lot of people are ready to fight to defend Ukrainian

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Terre Tory. Where does the Kremlin go next? They have Crimea to all

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intents and purposes. There's a weak Government in Kiev. Do they move to

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the eastern side of Ukraine which is largely Russian speaking and there's

:05:48.:05:52.

already been some unrest there? That's the big question, that's what

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everybody's really asking now. Where does this go from here? We've had

:05:56.:05:59.

some unrest in the eastern part of the country. There have been

:06:00.:06:04.

demonstrations and clashes. More ominously, there have been noises

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from the Kremlin they might actually move into eastern Ukraine. Putin in

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his conversation with Barack Obama said they might protect their

:06:17.:06:20.

interests there. It should be said, if they do expand, in fact, they've

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also said they are dead against the new Government seeing it as

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illegitimate and fascist. It does contain risks. They will have to

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deal with international reactions. America said there will be a deep

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reaction to this and it will affect Russia's relations with Ukraine and

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the international community. They have to deal with the reaction in

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Ukraine. This may unite Ukrainians behind this new interim Government.

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Once Russia moves in, they will be seen as an invading force. It plays

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on historical feelings of Russia being an imperial force.

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Joining me is MP Mark Field who sits on the security Security and

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Intelligence Committee in the House of Commons. What should the western

:07:16.:07:20.

response be to these events? I can understand why William Hague is

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going to Kiev tomorrow to stand side by side whizz whoever's in charge.

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They need to CEOP sit numbers and also President Putin. The truth is

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we are all co significant fatries to the Budapest Memorandum of almost 20

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years ago which was designed to maintain the integrity of the

:07:50.:07:54.

Ukraine and Crimea. There needs to be a discussion along those lines.

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The difficulty is President Putin has watched events in recent months,

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in relation to Syria, it is palpable President Obama's focus of attention

:08:07.:08:12.

ask the other side of the Pacific rather than the Atlantic. The vote

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in the House of Commons, I was very much against the idea of military

:08:16.:08:20.

action or providing weapons to the free Syrian army. My worry is,

:08:21.:08:24.

events proved this, the majority of the other options toed as sad are

:08:25.:08:31.

rather worse. It is clear now we are in a constitutional mess in this

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country. We cannot even contemplate military action without a

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parliamentary vote that moves against quick reaction that is

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required from the executive or, I suspect, there will be very little

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appetite for any military action from the West over in Ukraine. We

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are corn tours under the agreement of less than 20 years ago. We may be

:08:57.:09:01.

but we've guaranteed an agreement which it is clear we haven't the

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power to enforce. You wrote this morning, Britain is a diminished

:09:05.:09:10.

voice. Clams Iley navigating the Syrian conflict we relick wished

:09:11.:09:15.

decisions to the whims of parliamentary approval. That may or

:09:16.:09:21.

may not be but the Kremlin's not watching how we voted on the Syrian

:09:22.:09:28.

issue? In relation to Syria, it was where is the western resolve here.

:09:29.:09:34.

The truth ask Putin's position is considerably less strong. In

:09:35.:09:38.

diplomatic terms. He had a victory in Syria in relation to chemical

:09:39.:09:44.

weapons and in relation to the West's relationship with Iran. Putin

:09:45.:09:51.

is a vital inter locking figure. In demographic and economic terms,

:09:52.:09:56.

Russia's in very deep trouble. The oil price started to fall to any

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degree, oil and gas price, given the importance of mineral wealth and

:10:02.:10:06.

exports for the Russian economy, Putin would be in a lot of trouble.

:10:07.:10:13.

It requires an engagement from the EU and the EU are intending to look

:10:14.:10:17.

at their internal economic problems and will be smarting from the

:10:18.:10:22.

failure within a matter of hours of the deal they tried to broker only

:10:23.:10:26.

nine days' ago. You say if Mr Putin decides to

:10:27.:10:30.

increase the stakes and moves into the east, takes over the whole

:10:31.:10:34.

place, our Government, you say, will find itself with another colossal

:10:35.:10:40.

international headache. Some people watching this will be thinking,

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what's it got to do with us? It's a long way away from Britain. We

:10:45.:10:50.

haven't a dog in this fight? We have in this regard for the longer term

:10:51.:10:55.

here. I think if there were to be some military action in Ukraine, the

:10:56.:10:59.

sense of Russia taking over, it could have a major impact on the

:11:00.:11:04.

global economy in very quick order. You should not deny that. There will

:11:05.:11:09.

be move to have sanctions against Russia. The escalation of that will

:11:10.:11:13.

be difficult. The other fact is looking at our internal affairs and

:11:14.:11:21.

reform, partners, the Baltic states, Finland, Poland, the Czech Republic,

:11:22.:11:27.

they will be looking at a resurgent Russia now and think they'll need to

:11:28.:11:33.

hold as tightly as possible to the EU institutions and the power of

:11:34.:11:37.

Germany at the centre of that. This whole appetite for the reforms

:11:38.:11:46.

politically and economically will be closed very much within a matter of

:11:47.:11:50.

a short period of time. It has longer term implications. Mark

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Field, thank you. We're joined now by BBC News night's

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Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban. Is there any prospect of a western

:12:04.:12:08.

military response? Clearly at the moment, it is nil. The boat has

:12:09.:12:17.

sailed with the Crimean. It has been per performed by Russian forces. It

:12:18.:12:22.

is now a matter of coordinating a plate cal line. European foreign

:12:23.:12:28.

ministers tomorrow. To say what will our future limits be? Where could we

:12:29.:12:33.

possibly draw red lines? To try to think a couple of steps down this,

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what happens if Russia interrupts energy supplies to EU member states

:12:39.:12:43.

ornate owe countries? These are the important steps they have to think

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about. It is quite clear we are in a different world here now. Also,

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Ukraine is facing a urgent foreign exchange crisis. Within literally a

:12:53.:12:56.

few weeks they could run out of money. All of these are rushing

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towards decision makers very fast. There is an interim and I suggestion

:13:01.:13:07.

unstable Government in Kiev. Crimea semi-to be under Russian control.

:13:08.:13:11.

There are clashes between the reformers and Russian nationals in

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the east of the country. What does Mr Putin do next? He has lots of

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options, of course. He has this carte blanch carte blanch from his

:13:20.:13:23.

Parliament to go in to the rest of Ukraine if he wants to. His military

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deployment suggests the one bite at a time, just Crimea to start with.

:13:31.:13:35.

See what response comes from the Ukrainian Government. Of course, so

:13:36.:13:39.

far, there hasn't been a coherent response. The really worrying thing

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about recent months, not just recent days, are the indications that the

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future of Ukraine as a unitary state is now in doubt. Look at it from the

:13:50.:13:57.

other side of the equation. The President when faced with

:13:58.:14:02.

demonstrations, many extremists, he was unable to deal with that. Now we

:14:03.:14:06.

have the other side, if you like, the Russian speakers, the other side

:14:07.:14:11.

of the fight, Russian nationalists showing they can get away with

:14:12.:14:16.

unilateral action more or less with impunity. The Ukrainian chiefs have

:14:17.:14:25.

been sacked. I think there are considerable questions now as to

:14:26.:14:29.

whether Ukraine is falling apart and, if that happens, we're into a

:14:30.:14:35.

Yugoslav-type situation which will continue posing very serious

:14:36.:14:40.

questions for the EU and NATO for months or years to come. So, Janan,

:14:41.:14:48.

Ukraine is over? Where the west to concede to the Russian in Crimea, it

:14:49.:14:53.

would perversely be a net loss for Russia. You'd assume the rest of

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Ukraine would become an un unambiguously a member of the the

:15:02.:15:07.

EU, maybe NATO. On top of that a Russian dream of Eurasion dream,

:15:08.:15:14.

they will look at Putin's behaviour and is a, no, thanks, we'll head

:15:15.:15:19.

towards the EU. It is a short-term victory for Putin which backfires on

:15:20.:15:32.

his broader goals in Well, many people said if he grabs Crimea, he

:15:33.:15:39.

loses Ukraine, which is your point. We have seen violent demonstrations

:15:40.:15:43.

in the big eastern cities in Ukraine yesterday. People taking control of

:15:44.:15:48.

certain buildings. The risk is there of spreading beyond Crimea. I think

:15:49.:15:54.

the lack of any unified or visible response from Ukrainian armed

:15:55.:15:56.

forces... They allowed Russian troops to walk into the bases in

:15:57.:16:01.

Crimea. They have supposedly gone on red alert but they have done

:16:02.:16:05.

absolutely nothing. We don't see them deploying from barracks. There

:16:06.:16:08.

are serious questions about whether they would just fall apart. Putin is

:16:09.:16:16.

not going to let them split away. I would have thought he would like the

:16:17.:16:21.

entire Ukraine to come into the Russian ambit. Barack Obama is

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saying this will not stand. He has a 90 minute conversation with Vladimir

:16:28.:16:32.

Putin and what is his response? I am suspending my cooperation in the

:16:33.:16:36.

run-up to the Sochi Summit. What is the EU doing? Nothing. There is

:16:37.:16:42.

nothing they can do and Putin knows there are a series of lines that he

:16:43.:16:46.

is able to cross and get away with it. Why should Berlin, London,

:16:47.:16:54.

Washington be surprised by the strength of Vladimir Putin's

:16:55.:16:58.

reaction? It was never going to let Ukraine just fall into the arms of

:16:59.:17:02.

the EU. That is the interesting point. And who does he listen to?

:17:03.:17:07.

Paddy Ashdown was saying sent Angela Merkel because she is the only

:17:08.:17:10.

person who can talk to him and I find that response worrying. We need

:17:11.:17:14.

to speak with a united voice but nobody knows what we should be

:17:15.:17:19.

saying. Military intervention is out for the West so we go to economic

:17:20.:17:23.

sanctions. Doesn't Vladimir Putin just say, oh, you want sanctions? I

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have turned off the gas tap. Yes, it is move and countermove, and it is

:17:31.:17:34.

difficult to predict where it will end up. In all these meetings that

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are being held, they do think a step or two ahead and try and set out

:17:40.:18:13.

clear lines. Thank you for coming in this morning.

:18:14.:18:14.

Labour has been struggling since 2010 to decide exactly how to take

:18:15.:18:16.

education secretary Michael Gove, one of the boldest reformers of the

:18:17.:18:19.

coalition and most divisive figures. Ed Miliband appointed TV historian

:18:20.:18:21.

Tristram Hunt and many thought Labour had found the man to teach

:18:22.:18:24.

Michael Gove a lesson. But how much do we really know about the party's

:18:25.:18:26.

plans for England's schools? Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are a

:18:27.:18:28.

devolved matter. Child has been back to school to find out. A politician

:18:29.:18:31.

once told me, do you know why education secretaries changed

:18:32.:18:33.

schools? Because they can. Michael Gove might dispute the motive but he

:18:34.:18:36.

is changing schools, like this one. The changes he is ringing in our

:18:37.:18:38.

encouraging them to be academies, free from local authorities to

:18:39.:18:40.

control their own budgets, ushering in free schools, focusing on

:18:41.:18:42.

toughening exams and making them the core of the curriculum with less

:18:43.:18:44.

coursework, and offering heads more discretion on tougher discipline.

:18:45.:18:50.

And he is in a hurry to put all this in place. But has that shut out any

:18:51.:18:54.

chance for a Labour Government to change it all themselves and do they

:18:55.:18:59.

really want to? Any questions? Visiting a different school, first

:19:00.:19:05.

in line to get a crack at that would-be Labour's third shadow

:19:06.:19:08.

education secretary since 2010, Tristram Hunt. In post, he has not

:19:09.:19:13.

been taken about fine tuning previous direct opposition to free

:19:14.:19:16.

schools and he has also suggested teachers in England would have to be

:19:17.:19:20.

licensed under a Labour Government, allowing the worst to be sacked and

:19:21.:19:23.

offering training and development to others and of course ending

:19:24.:19:28.

coalition plans to allow unqualified teachers into classrooms. Full

:19:29.:19:32.

policy detail is still unmarked work. Your opinion about evolution?

:19:33.:19:43.

What is very clear is that Labour's education policy is still evolving.

:19:44.:19:48.

We are learning that they have some clear water, but we also seem, from

:19:49.:19:53.

the sting at the back, to get the feeling that there is not a great

:19:54.:19:56.

deal of difference from them and the current Government on types of

:19:57.:20:01.

schools and the way education should proceed. -- from listening at the

:20:02.:20:07.

back. So what exactly is different about their policy? What Tristram

:20:08.:20:12.

Hunt's job is to do is to be open and honest about the shared agenda

:20:13.:20:16.

between us and the Tories. There are a lot of areas where there is clear

:20:17.:20:20.

water between us and Tristram Hunt as to turn his back, shared agenda,

:20:21.:20:25.

stop fighting it, and forge our agenda, which I think people will be

:20:26.:20:31.

really interested in. The art of Government, of course, is to balance

:20:32.:20:36.

competing pictures of policy, even inside your own party. It is fair to

:20:37.:20:40.

say that if Labour reflects and draws its own visions of a shared

:20:41.:20:44.

agenda, it might have to square that idea with teaching unions, who are

:20:45.:20:47.

already unhappy with the pace and tone of change that the Government

:20:48.:20:53.

had sketched out. What we sincerely hope is that if Labour were to form

:20:54.:20:57.

the next Government, that they would look at a serious review of

:20:58.:21:20.

accountability measures. That is really what ways on teachers every

:21:21.:21:23.

single day. Actually they would look at restoring the possibility, for

:21:24.:21:25.

example, of local councillors to be able to open schools. That seems

:21:26.:21:27.

eminently sensible. If they are not going to move back from the free

:21:28.:21:30.

schools and academies programme, at the very least they need to say that

:21:31.:21:32.

academy chains will be inspected because at the moment they are not.

:21:33.:21:35.

Labour have balls in the air on education and are still throwing

:21:36.:21:37.

around precise policy detail. There are areas that they could grab hold

:21:38.:21:40.

of and seize possession. A focus on the rounding of the people,

:21:41.:21:42.

developing character, the impact of digitalisation on the classroom.

:21:43.:21:44.

Also the role and handling of teachers in the system and the

:21:45.:21:47.

interdependence of schools. That is all still to play for. Currently I

:21:48.:21:53.

think the difference between the parties is that the coalition

:21:54.:21:56.

policies, while we do not agree with all of them, are clear and explicit,

:21:57.:22:02.

and Labour's policies are yet to be formulated in a way that everybody

:22:03.:22:08.

can understand clearly. I don't think that Tristram Hunt or Miliband

:22:09.:22:12.

will want to pick unnecessary fights before the election. I think we will

:22:13.:22:19.

have quite a red, pinkish fuzziness around the whole area of policy but

:22:20.:22:24.

after the election there will be grey steel from Tristram Hunt. But

:22:25.:22:31.

if fuzzy policy before the election is the lesson plan, it does rather

:22:32.:22:35.

risk interested voters being left in the dark.

:22:36.:22:39.

Tristram Hunt joins me now for the Sunday interview.

:22:40.:22:51.

Welcome. Thank you. Which of Michael Gove's school reforms would you

:22:52.:22:56.

repeal? We are not interested in throwing a change for the sake of

:22:57.:23:00.

it. When I go round schools, teachers have been through very

:23:01.:23:03.

aggressive changes in the last three years, so when it comes to some of

:23:04.:23:06.

the curriculum reforms we have seen, we are not interested in changing

:23:07.:23:10.

those for the sake of it. Where we are interested in making change is

:23:11.:23:15.

having a focus on technical and vocational education, making sure

:23:16.:23:19.

that the forgotten 15% is properly addressed in our education system.

:23:20.:23:24.

What we saw in your package was an interesting description of how we

:23:25.:23:27.

have seen structural reforms in the names of schools. Academies, free

:23:28.:23:32.

schools, all the rest of it. International evidence is clear that

:23:33.:23:35.

it is the quality of leadership of the headteachers and the quality of

:23:36.:23:37.

teaching in the classroom that transforms the prospects of young

:23:38.:23:41.

people. Instead of tinkering around the names of schools, we focus on

:23:42.:23:46.

teacher quality. Viewers will be shocked to note that this Government

:23:47.:23:50.

approves of unqualified teachers in the classroom. We want to have fully

:23:51.:24:05.

qualified, passionate, motivated teachers in the classroom. It sounds

:24:06.:24:07.

like you might not repeal anything. You might build on it and you might

:24:08.:24:10.

go in a different direction, with more emphasis on technological

:24:11.:24:12.

education but no major repeal of the reforms of Michael Gove? I don't

:24:13.:24:15.

think you want to waste energy on undoing reforms. In certain

:24:16.:24:19.

situations they build on Labour Party policy. We introduced the

:24:20.:24:25.

sponsored academy programmes and we began the Teach First programmes,

:24:26.:24:28.

and we began the London challenge which transformed the educational

:24:29.:24:34.

prospects of children in London. We want to roll that out across the

:24:35.:24:39.

country. You have said there will be no more free schools, which Michael

:24:40.:24:44.

Gove introduced, but you will allow parents let academies, which just

:24:45.:24:46.

means free schools by a different name. No, because they will be in

:24:47.:24:56.

certain areas. We want to create new schools with parents. What we have

:24:57.:25:00.

at the moment is a destructive and market-driven approach to

:25:01.:25:04.

education. I was in Stroud on Thursday and plans for a big new

:25:05.:25:08.

school, in an area with surplus places, threatened to destroy the

:25:09.:25:13.

viability of local, rural schools. We want schools to work together in

:25:14.:25:17.

a network of partnership and challenge, rather than this

:25:18.:25:20.

destructive market-driven approach. You say that, but your version of

:25:21.:25:46.

free schools, I think, would only be allowed where there is a shortage of

:25:47.:25:49.

places. That means that where there is an excess of bad schools, parents

:25:50.:25:52.

will have no choice. They still have to send their kids to bad schools.

:25:53.:25:54.

And we have to transform bad schools and that was always the Labour way

:25:55.:25:57.

in Government. At the moment we just have an insertion of new schools.

:25:58.:25:59.

Schools currently underperforming are now underperforming even more.

:26:00.:26:01.

Children only have one chance at education. What about their time in

:26:02.:26:04.

school? Our focus is on the leadership of the headteacher and

:26:05.:26:06.

having quality teachers in the classroom. So they cannot set up new

:26:07.:26:09.

better schools and they have to go to the bad schools. Tony Blair said

:26:10.:26:11.

it should be easier for parents to set up new schools where they are

:26:12.:26:13.

dissatisfied with existing schools. You are not saying that. Even where

:26:14.:26:17.

they are dissatisfied with existing schools, they cannot set up free

:26:18.:26:20.

schools and you are reneging on that. We live in difficult economic

:26:21.:26:27.

circumstances where we have got to focus public finances on the areas

:26:28.:26:32.

of absolute need. We need 250,000 new school places. 150,000 in London

:26:33.:26:38.

alone. We have to focus on building new schools and where we have to put

:26:39.:26:45.

them. And secondly... Absolutely not. Focusing on those schools.

:26:46.:26:50.

Making sure we turned them around, just as we did in Government. We

:26:51.:26:54.

have had a remarkable degree of waste under the free school

:26:55.:26:58.

programme. If you think of the free school in Derby, the Academy in

:26:59.:27:03.

Bradford, and as we saw in the Telegraph on Friday, the free

:27:04.:27:07.

schools in Suffolk, a great deal of waste of public money on

:27:08.:27:10.

underperforming free schools. That is not the Labour way. We focus on

:27:11.:27:13.

making sure that kids in schools at the moment get the best possible

:27:14.:27:19.

education. Except that in your own backyard, in Stoke, only 34% of

:27:20.:27:25.

secondary school pupils attend a good or outstanding school. 148 out

:27:26.:27:33.

of 150 of the worst performing local authorities and it is

:27:34.:27:35.

Labour-controlled. Still terrible schools and yet you say parents

:27:36.:27:40.

should not have the freedom to start a better school. We have great

:27:41.:27:44.

schools in Stoke-on-Trent as well. We face challenges, just as

:27:45.:27:46.

schools in Stoke-on-Trent as well. Wolverhampton does and the Isle of

:27:47.:27:51.

Wight and Lincolnshire. Just like large parts of the country. What is

:27:52.:27:56.

the solution to that? Making sure we share excellence among the existing

:27:57.:28:00.

schools and making sure we have quality leadership in schools. Those

:28:01.:28:03.

schools in Stoke-on-Trent are all academies. It is not a question only

:28:04.:28:08.

of structure but of leadership. It is also a question of going back to

:28:09.:28:11.

the responsibility of parents to make sure their kids are school

:28:12.:28:15.

ready when they get to school. To make sure they are reading to their

:28:16.:28:50.

children in the evening. We can't put it all on teachers. Parents have

:28:51.:28:52.

responsibilities. I understand that but you have told me Labour's policy

:28:53.:28:55.

would not be to set up new schools which parents hope will be better.

:28:56.:28:58.

Parents continue to send their kids to bad schools in areas like Stoke.

:28:59.:29:00.

Labour has had plenty of time to sort out these schools in Stoke and

:29:01.:29:03.

they are still among the worst performing in the country. You are

:29:04.:29:05.

condemning these parents to having to send their kids to bad schools.

:29:06.:29:08.

Where we have seen the sett ing up of Derby, Suffolk, we have seen that

:29:09.:29:11.

is not the simple solution. Is simply setting up a new is not a

:29:12.:29:14.

successful model. What works is good leadership. I was in Birmingham on

:29:15.:29:16.

Friday at a failing comprehensive is not a successful model. What works

:29:17.:29:17.

Friday at a failing comprehensive is is good leadership. I was in

:29:18.:29:20.

Birmingham on Friday at a failing comprehensive school and now people

:29:21.:29:22.

are queueing round the block to get into it. You can turn around schools

:29:23.:29:24.

with the right leadership, passionate and motivated teachers,

:29:25.:29:26.

and parents engaged with the learning outcome of their kids. In

:29:27.:29:31.

the last few years of the Labour Government, only four kids from your

:29:32.:29:37.

this Government would set up the new school. In Birmingham, they got in a

:29:38.:29:39.

great headmaster and turned the school around and now people are

:29:40.:29:42.

queueing round the block to get into it. You can turnaround schools with

:29:43.:29:44.

the right leadership, passionate and motivated teachers, and parents

:29:45.:29:46.

engaged with the learning outcome of their kids. In the last few years of

:29:47.:29:49.

a Labour Government, only four kids from your area of and you had plenty

:29:50.:29:52.

of chances to put this right but only four got to the two and you had

:29:53.:29:55.

plenty of chances to put this right but only four got to the two leading

:29:56.:30:01.

universities. Traditionally young people could leave school at 16 and

:30:02.:30:05.

walking two jobs in the potteries, the steel industry, the

:30:06.:30:08.

traditionally young people could leave school at 16 and walking two

:30:09.:30:11.

jobs in the potteries, the steel industry, the but also to get an

:30:12.:30:17.

apprenticeship at Jaguar Land Rover, JCB, Rolls-Royce. That is why

:30:18.:30:24.

Ed Miliband's focus on the forgotten 15%, which we have just not seen

:30:25.:30:29.

from this Government, focusing on technical and vocational pathways,

:30:30.:30:40.

is fundamental to Your headmaster was guiles Slaughter. Was he a good

:30:41.:30:56.

teacher? He He never taught me. Over 90% of teeners in the private

:30:57.:31:04.

sector are qualified. They look for not simply teachers with qualified

:31:05.:31:07.

teacher status. Teachers with MAs. Teachers who are improving them

:31:08.:31:11.

cephalitis. Becoming better educators.

:31:12.:31:20.

cephalitis. Becoming better teaching. You were taught by

:31:21.:31:21.

unqualified teachers. Your parents paid over ?15,000 a year for you

:31:22.:31:26.

being taught by unqualified teachers. Why did you make such a

:31:27.:31:31.

big deal of it? Because we've seen right around the world those

:31:32.:31:35.

education systems which focus on having the most qualified teachers

:31:36.:31:41.

perform the best. It cannot be right that anyone can simply turn up, as

:31:42.:31:48.

at the moment, have schools at veritising for unqualified teachers

:31:49.:31:51.

teaching in the classroom. We want the best qualified teachers with the

:31:52.:31:58.

deepest subject knowledge, for the passion in learning for their kids.

:31:59.:32:04.

It is absurd we are having arguments about this. Simply having a paper

:32:05.:32:08.

qualification doesn't make you a great teacher. Let me take you to

:32:09.:32:14.

Brighton college. It is gone from the 147th to the 18 18th best

:32:15.:32:20.

private school in the land. Fllt the headmaster says:

:32:21.:32:35.

This is the top Sundaytimes school of the year. The school in derby

:32:36.:32:48.

where this Government allowed unqualified teaching assist taints.

:32:49.:32:50.

We had teachers who could barely speak English. That is because if

:32:51.:32:54.

you have unqualified teachers you end up with a dangerous situation.

:32:55.:32:59.

The problem with that school was not unqualified teachers. People were

:33:00.:33:04.

running that school who were unfit to run a school. We have an issue

:33:05.:33:09.

about discipline and behaviour management in some of our schools.

:33:10.:33:13.

Some of the skills teachers gain through qualifications and learning

:33:14.:33:17.

is how to manage classes and get the best out of kids at every stage. It

:33:18.:33:21.

doesn't end with a qualified teacher status. That's just the beginning.

:33:22.:33:27.

We want our teachers to have continue it will development.

:33:28.:33:49.

You have taught as an unqualified teacher. I am delighted to do it. We

:33:50.:34:07.

want unqualified teachers to gain qualified teacher status. If they

:34:08.:34:14.

are not interested in deepening the knowledge I do not think they should

:34:15.:34:24.

be in the classroom. But if a school has hired a teacher knowing that

:34:25.:34:31.

they were unqualified, they would be in breach of the law? They are being

:34:32.:34:40.

urged by us to make sure they have qualified teacher status. But if

:34:41.:34:48.

they say they do not want to do it, will you fire them? Teachers should

:34:49.:34:58.

have the qualifications to teach and inspire our young people,

:34:59.:35:03.

particularly when we face global competition. He finds inspiring

:35:04.:35:17.

teachers who do not necessarily have a teaching qualification. It is

:35:18.:35:23.

different teaching nice young boys and girls in Brighton than teaching

:35:24.:35:35.

different children with behavioural and educational needs. Do you think

:35:36.:35:45.

that somebody called Tristram Hunt could ever lead the Labour Party.

:35:46.:35:53.

Somebody called Ed is leading the Labour Party. It is great that David

:35:54.:36:05.

Owen is back with us. Have you thought of switching to Tommy or

:36:06.:36:16.

Tony? There is a long history in the party of people with funny names and

:36:17.:36:20.

via love the Labour Party is that it accepts everybody including me.

:36:21.:36:28.

You're watching The Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in

:36:29.:36:30.

Scotland who leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland.

:36:31.:36:39.

Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up on the

:36:40.:36:51.

programme. Join me on the battlefield of Bannockburn were

:36:52.:36:55.

conflict has broken out. We'll be asking if the strategy is right for

:36:56.:36:59.

success. And the thorny question over whether Doctor Who will be

:37:00.:37:01.

regenerated in a post-independence Scotland. Bannockburn is the

:37:02.:37:07.

"birthplace of the modern nation". The First Minister said that when

:37:08.:37:10.

the new visitor centre opened this week. In just four months' time,

:37:11.:37:14.

thousands of people are expected to assemble there for Bannockburn Live

:37:15.:37:19.

to commemorate the event. But organisers are bearing the scars of

:37:20.:37:22.

their own battles already, as questions are raised about a low

:37:23.:37:25.

level of ticket sales and marketing, the tourist board's accountability

:37:26.:37:28.

and concerns over the clash with Armed Forces Day, which is also

:37:29.:37:31.

taking place in Stirling. Andrew Kerr has been to the battlefield to

:37:32.:37:36.

find out more. The creation of a nation. Bannockburn that paved the

:37:37.:37:41.

way for Scotland to secure its independence. 700 years later a new

:37:42.:37:48.

visitor centre opened at this weekend and in June, the battlefield

:37:49.:37:53.

will echo once more with Bannockburn Live. There are concerns the event

:37:54.:38:00.

is being diluted and it will last for two days rather than three.

:38:01.:38:05.

20,000 tickets are now available rather than the 45,001st planned.

:38:06.:38:12.

The convener of the standing counsel of Scottish chiefs says that the

:38:13.:38:21.

scheduling could put people off, particularly clansmen from abroad.

:38:22.:38:28.

It has caused confusion amongst our friends overseas as to what is going

:38:29.:38:33.

on because they need a clear-cut plan because they are buying air

:38:34.:38:39.

tickets, booking accommodation, closing up their own homes in

:38:40.:38:45.

Colorado or California and come here. It causes confusion and that

:38:46.:38:52.

is nothing worse than a confused ancestral Scottish tourists because

:38:53.:38:57.

they are the ones putting the money into this. It is a highly

:38:58.:39:04.

politicised atmosphere and the pro union Stirling council leadership

:39:05.:39:09.

deny hijacking an event some perceive as being pro-independence.

:39:10.:39:17.

No one from stumbling Counsel was available but they did release a

:39:18.:39:20.

statement saying that an application and be made last year to host the

:39:21.:39:24.

even bigger and more spectacular Armed Forces Day event. It seems

:39:25.:39:36.

that The National Trust gratefully handed over the administration to

:39:37.:39:47.

Visit Scotland. But there is a feeling amongst some parties they

:39:48.:39:50.

are being kept in the dark by the tourists board. It is concerning

:39:51.:39:59.

that ticket sales have not gone well so far and the Scottish tunes on the

:40:00.:40:03.

street is relying on it being a success and it will be very

:40:04.:40:06.

disappointing if it does not live up to expectations. Concerns have been

:40:07.:40:17.

expressed about low levels of marketing. In 2009, the organisers

:40:18.:40:31.

of the Gathering event went to Northern America and promoted the

:40:32.:40:38.

event and went around with leaflets and the like promoting the event. I

:40:39.:40:46.

am not sure of Visit Scotland and the people organising Bannockburn

:40:47.:40:50.

have actually done that. Visit Scotland says you cannot compare the

:40:51.:40:54.

two events and are happy to address all the concerns and confident the

:40:55.:41:02.

event will be happy and successful. It was always the case that

:41:03.:41:05.

promotional committee would be built up as we work towards the event

:41:06.:41:15.

itself. The largest tickets have already sold out 90% of the

:41:16.:41:24.

allocation. All the indications are that ticket sales will go well as we

:41:25.:41:29.

read up to the event. There may be dissent in the ranks and frequent

:41:30.:41:33.

skirmishes then all will no doubt get behind the Bruce. Well, a little

:41:34.:41:44.

earlier, I spoke to Bruce Crawford who is the SNP MSP for Stirling and

:41:45.:41:48.

asked if he had concerns over the Bannockburn Live event. I have no

:41:49.:41:51.

concerns, this will be a fantastic weekend and people should be excited

:41:52.:41:54.

about this. On a Friday evening there will be uptight festival -- a

:41:55.:42:09.

pipe Festival and the largest ever battlefield re-enactment. There will

:42:10.:42:17.

be a storytelling area and a kitchen, and a armoury. It will be a

:42:18.:42:28.

great event and something to get really excited about. What has gone

:42:29.:42:38.

wrong with the organisation? Nothing has gone wrong. There has been a

:42:39.:42:43.

transfer from National Trust for Scotland and Historic Scotland and

:42:44.:42:52.

ticket sales are going well. We have not even got to the launch event yet

:42:53.:42:59.

which is in two weeks time. It is a fantastic opportunity. I was at an

:43:00.:43:19.

event in Stirling and there was a fantastic atmosphere. We were to

:43:20.:43:28.

40,000 people were expected which has now been downgraded to 20,000.

:43:29.:43:32.

We are told only 2000 tickets have been sold and that is now no longer

:43:33.:43:37.

a three-day event but a two-day event. From the outside, it looks as

:43:38.:43:44.

if this is an event in crisis. There is a third day still happening,

:43:45.:43:49.

which is an exclusive event for the clans on the Monday. The Saturday

:43:50.:43:54.

and Sunday have been extended so it can dovetail with Armed Forces Day

:43:55.:44:00.

which takes place in the city on the same day. That helps people with

:44:01.:44:06.

concession tickets to. It is right to rearrange things as they begin to

:44:07.:44:10.

unfold. We do not even get to the proper launch of the marketing until

:44:11.:44:16.

two weeks time. The most expensive tickets have almost gone and I was

:44:17.:44:29.

in the new Bannockburn centre which is a fantastic place. Businesses and

:44:30.:44:44.

spelling are looking forward -- businesses in in Stirling are

:44:45.:44:54.

looking forward to the event. Within minutes of this being announced, I

:44:55.:44:59.

was one of the first to say I am entirely supportive of it. If you

:45:00.:45:06.

are a business person in Stirling it does not matter to you who is coming

:45:07.:45:12.

through that door, be it Armed Forces Day or the Bannockburn event.

:45:13.:45:19.

Everyone in Stirling is supporting what is going on. It is important

:45:20.:45:24.

that we make the two events dovetail with each other and that is what is

:45:25.:45:30.

going on. Some people say that Armed Forces day being held at the same

:45:31.:45:36.

time the same place is a direct challenge and this was a Unionist

:45:37.:45:40.

challenge, holding Armed Forces Day on the same day. I hear you telling

:45:41.:45:51.

me that but I have hardly met a single individual who has told me

:45:52.:45:58.

that. I have not had this from businesses in Stirling. This will be

:45:59.:46:13.

a fantastic Festival of papers -- of pipers sitting alongside Armed

:46:14.:46:18.

Forces Day and people should be enthusiastic. It is also about

:46:19.:46:28.

concern for public money, when we look at the homecoming event, an

:46:29.:46:32.

event that lost money, people may ask whether we are encouraging

:46:33.:46:36.

people to come to Scotland in the right way? This is a different event

:46:37.:46:44.

to the homecoming event. That was focused on an international

:46:45.:46:47.

perspective, this is much more focused on a domestic perspective.

:46:48.:46:52.

It is a break even event. They're estimating they can take in ?230,000

:46:53.:46:57.

or something in that order over that weekend to help cover the costs. It

:46:58.:47:01.

will be a break even event. It has been well-managed. Visit Scotland

:47:02.:47:08.

have the marketing skills and ability to make this take off. We

:47:09.:47:12.

don't even get to the marketing strategy being announced until two

:47:13.:47:19.

weeks. There is a long way to go. Visit Scotland, if they are the

:47:20.:47:23.

right organisation, why were they in charge from the beginning? The

:47:24.:47:31.

National Trust For Scotland on the site, they are still involved in the

:47:32.:47:36.

planning group, we have a good partnership working in the city to

:47:37.:47:47.

deliver these events. I think everything is working well, there is

:47:48.:47:50.

a good synergy between the partnerships. When it comes to

:47:51.:47:53.

promoting Scotland and encouraging people to visit different parts of

:47:54.:47:59.

Scotland, do we need to think about -- think less about these formal

:48:00.:48:04.

events, and think about people coming to Scotland for locks and

:48:05.:48:09.

other parts of our history. Whoever comes to visit Stirling over that

:48:10.:48:12.

weekend, whether they are going to Armed Forces Day, Bannockburn Live,

:48:13.:48:19.

they'll be getting the opportunity to be exposed to the fantastic

:48:20.:48:22.

scenery and surroundings around about them. My constituency right

:48:23.:48:26.

alongside the battlefield here, we have the Trossachs and the mountains

:48:27.:48:36.

of the Stirling area as well as the Wallace Monument. It is a great

:48:37.:48:42.

backdrop. I can't wait for it. I cannot understand how Ebola aren't

:48:43.:48:47.

more excited about this and I would encourage everyone to. -- why people

:48:48.:48:55.

aren't more excited. If it does not work, who foot the bill? We are back

:48:56.:49:00.

at the negative point of view. Visit Scotland have a solid experience in

:49:01.:49:10.

the area. It will be a success, tickets for one of the days of

:49:11.:49:14.

almost sold out, and that is the most expensive ticket and we don't

:49:15.:49:19.

even get to the marketing opportunity for two weeks. It is

:49:20.:49:22.

time for people to be more upbeat and excited. Thank you for joining

:49:23.:49:25.

us. In a question and answer session at

:49:26.:49:28.

the Oxford Media Convention this week, the UK government's Culture

:49:29.:49:31.

Secretary Maria Miller is reported as saying that a vote for

:49:32.:49:34.

independence would mean leaving UK institutions, including the BBC. The

:49:35.:49:36.

Scottish Government's White Paper proposes replacing the BBC with a

:49:37.:49:39.

new Scottish Broadcasting Service based on the assets and staff of BBC

:49:40.:49:49.

Scotland. So does Maria Miller's intervention signal that Doctor Who

:49:50.:49:52.

may have regenerated for the last time for Scottish viewers, or is it

:49:53.:49:59.

all up for negotiation? Plenty of things will change as

:50:00.:50:02.

Scotland votes for independence, but the Scottish Open says he able to

:50:03.:50:06.

enjoy BBC programmes would be one of them. The Scottish governance

:50:07.:50:11.

potluck white paper says that if Scotland votes for independence, the

:50:12.:50:15.

BBC will be replaced by new Scottish and servers. This will be based on

:50:16.:50:20.

the staff and assets of BBC Scotland initially. Its funding would come

:50:21.:50:23.

from a licensed the end a share of the BBC's emotional income. It

:50:24.:50:29.

proposes... A joint-venture where the Scottish broadcasting

:50:30.:50:31.

service... How likely is such a deal? One

:50:32.:50:43.

expert says the issue of content will be key. In the event of a vote

:50:44.:50:49.

for independence, it seems to me in the longer term it is almost

:50:50.:50:52.

inconceivable that viewers in Scotland will not be able to get

:50:53.:50:55.

access to the BBC's services that like. In terms of the negotiation of

:50:56.:51:04.

evidence you, this would be the BBC in dealing with Scotland as it would

:51:05.:51:09.

with any foreign customer. The UK Government says any bid to use

:51:10.:51:14.

existing services and content would need to be negotiated, taking into

:51:15.:51:17.

account what the effect might be on the service the rest of the UK

:51:18.:51:20.

receives. The BBC itself would be drawn. Broadcasting is the one area

:51:21.:51:27.

of public policy were under a Royal Charter we are allowed to make

:51:28.:51:31.

comment upon. However, to do so is problematic for us. Ramiro because

:51:32.:51:37.

broadcasting and the future role of the BBC is an issue within the

:51:38.:51:42.

current constitutional debate. -- primarily. For us to make comment

:51:43.:51:46.

could be seen as a snaking comment on a constitutional issue. That in

:51:47.:51:53.

turn could impact on impartiality on the debate, so we have chosen not to

:51:54.:51:57.

make comment. What we have said basically is that we will not enter

:51:58.:52:01.

into any public or private discussions about the future role or

:52:02.:52:06.

shape or nature of the services of the BBC after the referendum until

:52:07.:52:11.

that referendum has taken place. Some believe there should still be

:52:12.:52:15.

radical change, even if Scotland votes to remain part of the union. I

:52:16.:52:20.

think the audience research shows that there is a dissatisfaction with

:52:21.:52:25.

how the BBC serves Scottish audiences with Scottish output. I

:52:26.:52:29.

think when you come up to charter renewal, there needs to be a debate

:52:30.:52:33.

about whether broadcasting should be devolved. How can the BBC itself

:52:34.:52:43.

serve and fund output in Scotland better? Because Scotland is going to

:52:44.:52:47.

be such a different place. If there is a no vote, there will be

:52:48.:52:55.

increasing revolution, if the BBC wants to keep in touch with Scottish

:52:56.:52:58.

audiences, it needs to think about change. -- increasing devolution.

:52:59.:53:06.

Speaking about broadcasting, the First Minister made what he called

:53:07.:53:11.

the Edinburgh declaration, Eastenders is safe. Asked how that

:53:12.:53:13.

happens, for independence is a difference

:53:14.:53:50.

deal, because the legal advice which the UK Government has and has made

:53:51.:53:55.

clear says that if they leave the UK, we leave this reduces and the

:53:56.:54:01.

BBC is one of those. What we have with the media argument is the same

:54:02.:54:05.

as we had with currency, defence, everything. The Scottish Government

:54:06.:54:09.

is making an assertion, what they will do. They may not have that

:54:10.:54:14.

choice, because the BBC may say, actually, we are going to move

:54:15.:54:20.

staff, assets, whatever to the UK. If all of that ?320 million is spent

:54:21.:54:27.

in Scotland on Scottish output, does it not follow that viewers and

:54:28.:54:30.

listeners get a better deal? The iMac as has been pointed out, there

:54:31.:54:37.

will be a debate anyway. It is fair to say as he did that there is a

:54:38.:54:42.

general unhappiness about the level of input that Scotland has on the

:54:43.:54:47.

BBC networks. When I worked at the BBC, it was something that was

:54:48.:54:51.

discussed then. That is a different argument. But only half of the

:54:52.:54:56.

people surveyed show that the Scottish people think that the BBC

:54:57.:55:02.

is value for money. That is a different argument. Yes, the

:55:03.:55:07.

Scottish parliament should have more powers, perhaps we need to look at

:55:08.:55:10.

the BBC during charter renewal and improve the service in Scotland.

:55:11.:55:14.

That is a different argument is... Be arguing this surely that -- the

:55:15.:55:22.

argument is surely that Scottish viewers are being short-changed.

:55:23.:55:27.

Argument about that is different from the Independence. We don't know

:55:28.:55:30.

what will happen to the BBC and its assets. The Scottish Government say

:55:31.:55:38.

we will build on the assets. Do they mean you, Pacific key, Beech Grove

:55:39.:55:46.

in Aberdeen? Those are things that the -- that belong to the BBC and

:55:47.:55:50.

there no guarantee they would have access to them. I said based in

:55:51.:55:56.

Scotland, but that does not mean they will get them. They can make

:55:57.:56:00.

all the assertions they want. The other factor is that if they make

:56:01.:56:05.

this Scottish Broadcasting Service, it will need a new framework, what

:56:06.:56:09.

will that be? Will they still want Ofcom? They talk about the licence

:56:10.:56:18.

fee, at the moment the ?320 million raised will not be enough for a

:56:19.:56:23.

brand-new broadcasting service. Ie same people will not get the TV and

:56:24.:56:27.

radio programmes that they currently receive? -- are you saying. If a

:56:28.:56:35.

separate service was set up, it could do what other channels do in

:56:36.:56:38.

other countries do, mine BBC programmes. I don't think that many

:56:39.:56:44.

people will decide how they are voting on the referendum and whether

:56:45.:56:48.

or not they get Doctor Who at 6pm on a Saturday or it is shown at ten

:56:49.:56:51.

o'clock on a Sunday night because the Scottish broadcasters have

:56:52.:56:59.

bought it and... Some people may be concerned about these things. There

:57:00.:57:02.

have been stories suggesting that that may not be the case that they

:57:03.:57:06.

are available, but as far as you're concerned, they would be available

:57:07.:57:13.

to viewers in Scotland? Scotland could buy the programmes. The BBC

:57:14.:57:16.

sells programmes throughout the world. If you look at Norway, which

:57:17.:57:21.

is always the example that the Scottish Government gives, if you

:57:22.:57:24.

look at Norway they buy programmes from all over the place, but their

:57:25.:57:27.

licence fee is twice wet we currently pay. -- what we currently

:57:28.:57:39.

pay. Like a lot of other countries, Canadians, Americans, the Irish by

:57:40.:57:44.

BBC programmes. Television is a huge market. It is not just about the BBC

:57:45.:57:51.

making programmes for viewers in Britain, they are making programmes

:57:52.:57:57.

for countries all over the world. Some shows are a huge success.

:57:58.:58:02.

Scotland could leave the UK, the BBC, and the BBC says you can have

:58:03.:58:08.

two things, you can buy Strictly Come Dancing, or you can buy the

:58:09.:58:13.

format and do-it-yourself. But it would probably have to be bought.

:58:14.:58:16.

Well, listening to that interview is the Cabinet Secretary for Culture

:58:17.:58:19.

External Affairs, Fiona Hyslop, who joins me from our Edinburgh studio.

:58:20.:58:22.

Let's pick up on one of the points that was made there. In about... The

:58:23.:58:32.

BBC would continue to serve, but a vote to leave the UK is a vote to

:58:33.:58:37.

lead institutions, including the BBC. I think it reflects the

:58:38.:58:42.

attitude of the UK Government. I think this idea that the UK

:58:43.:58:46.

Government ministers are telling us what we can and cannot have, I think

:58:47.:58:51.

that is a very patronising view of Scotland. You are being accused of

:58:52.:58:57.

asserting, what is your evidence? In terms of the staff and assets, we

:58:58.:59:00.

think they will be the foundation for a new broadcasting Corporation,

:59:01.:59:05.

we will get the programmes we have just now. Just remember, other

:59:06.:59:09.

countries like Ireland and Finland have twice the amount of original TV

:59:10.:59:14.

production coming out of their countries than BBC Scotland has. It

:59:15.:59:18.

is about content and making sure that people see what they want to

:59:19.:59:22.

see, developing the skills and talent of our production companies,

:59:23.:59:26.

but also about satisfaction. BBC Scotland is the only part of the UK

:59:27.:59:32.

that has less than their own... Something needs to change. There is

:59:33.:59:37.

no guarantee with a no vote that there would be anything on offer.

:59:38.:59:41.

When you say it is about how we get the programmes, do you accept that

:59:42.:59:44.

there is a degree of negotiation that has to be had and that actually

:59:45.:59:50.

everything you have delivered might not be promised? You like it is due

:59:51.:59:57.

to be replaced, the charter, talk about negotiations, the last time we

:59:58.:00:01.

negotiated was 24 hours behind closed doors. That was far from

:00:02.:00:07.

satisfactory and led to a reduction in the BBC budgets.

:00:08.:00:14.

negotiating as a foreign customer? We think we could do it as a joint

:00:15.:00:27.

venture of, that would make sense. A co-commissioned some of the best

:00:28.:00:32.

productions. And who have the assets to the BBC worldwide as well. We

:00:33.:00:36.

have contributed to this assets over many years. How long would you have

:00:37.:00:44.

access to them? Your White Paper does not seem to make it clear, why

:00:45.:00:48.

would you have access to those funds? We have helped build up the

:00:49.:00:57.

BBC in terms of our contribution. We get a raw deal just now, the ?320

:00:58.:01:05.

million the juice from licence fees in 2016 there will only be less than

:01:06.:01:11.

that spent in Scotland. It is very much like the German model, for

:01:12.:01:18.

example. We can deliver it, I think, it was BA better deal for Scottish

:01:19.:01:27.

viewers. -- it would be a. I think people are fed up seeing the BBC 6pm

:01:28.:01:33.

news with health and education stories that have nothing to do with

:01:34.:01:37.

Scotland. We need stories for Scotland. What other set up costs of

:01:38.:01:44.

a new broadcasting service? In terms of BBC Scotland, I don't think

:01:45.:01:53.

Christine has read the white paper, one of the pages set out the details

:01:54.:02:01.

of this. What is the figure? We would inherit in terms of... So

:02:02.:02:05.

there will be no cost as far as you are concerned? Would have a share in

:02:06.:02:11.

assets, we have estimated it all to be about ?345 million, the licence

:02:12.:02:16.

fee figures comes from a policy statement issued by BBC Scotland, so

:02:17.:02:21.

it is perfectly doable. In terms of budgets, we would have a strong

:02:22.:02:24.

position and far more to invest in Scottish originated product than

:02:25.:02:29.

some do have. Would you have two papers of the programmes that you

:02:30.:02:35.

say would be protected? -- have to pay. Scottish viewers have access to

:02:36.:02:40.

something like 50,000 hours via the IPlayer, it won't be a fair swap,

:02:41.:02:47.

will it? Interest from BBC Scotland, they currently receive a

:02:48.:02:54.

20% reduction, it is that 9%. I think it would be in their interest

:02:55.:02:59.

to make sure that the contribution still is there in terms of

:03:00.:03:03.

co-production and co-commissioning and developing programmes for

:03:04.:03:08.

Scotland. Remember, the current Government in Westminster who don't

:03:09.:03:13.

have much faith in public broadcasting, the chairman has been

:03:14.:03:16.

questioning whether the licence fee should be protected. Far from being

:03:17.:03:21.

an offer of more broadcasting for Scotland, it is probably going in

:03:22.:03:26.

reverse. There is every indication from backbenchers in the

:03:27.:03:29.

Conservative Party that you may not have public service broadcasting if

:03:30.:03:32.

you vote no and there is no guarantee under devolution of more

:03:33.:03:37.

powers. If you want change for broadcasting and a better service

:03:38.:03:40.

for Scottish viewers, then a yes vote gives a clear way forward.

:03:41.:03:42.

Thank you very much. You're watching Sunday Politics

:03:43.:03:51.

Scotland - let's cross now for the news from Reporting Scotland with

:03:52.:04:01.

Andrew Kerr. Leading figures on both sides of the independence debate

:04:02.:04:04.

have marked the campaign entering its final 200 days. The Deputy First

:04:05.:04:09.

Minister Nicola Sturgeon said only a Yes vote would secure the powers

:04:10.:04:15.

Scotland needs. Backing a No vote, the Scottish Secretary Alistair

:04:16.:04:18.

Carmichael urged people to use their vote on the 18th of September

:04:19.:04:23.

"wisely". Accident and Emergency staff in Scotland have been the

:04:24.:04:26.

victims of 774 attacks over the last two years. The figures come from

:04:27.:04:29.

information obtained by the Liberal Democrats. They say it's "shameful"

:04:30.:04:34.

that staff in A units were subjected to physical and verbal

:04:35.:04:37.

abuse. The Scottish Government said it was working to continue to bring

:04:38.:04:42.

down the rate of attacks. Boxing, and Ricky Burns suffered his first

:04:43.:04:46.

defeat in seven years as he lost his WBO World Lightweight title. The

:04:47.:04:53.

30-year-old Scot fought American Terence Crawford in Glasgow last

:04:54.:04:56.

night, losing on a unanimous points decision. Burns said the "better man

:04:57.:04:58.

won". Now a look at the weather forecast. Cloud will

:04:59.:05:15.

continue to thicken up and will be outbreaks of rain through the

:05:16.:05:18.

south-west and the central lowlands. The highest temperature

:05:19.:05:27.

will be around seven Celsius with a fresh southeasterly wind. As we head

:05:28.:05:31.

towards evening, the rain moves north.

:05:32.:05:36.

That's it. Back to Gary. Thanks, Andrew. Now in a moment, we'll be

:05:37.:05:44.

discussing the big events coming up this

:05:45.:05:48.

David Cameron and his cabinet met in Aberdeen to press the case of the

:05:49.:05:57.

union and to discuss the importance of the all industry. The Scottish

:05:58.:06:05.

Government was right cabinet also met. Production costs and oil have

:06:06.:06:11.

risen steeply but investment remains high. Standard Life says it is

:06:12.:06:20.

moving staff to England if there is a yes vote in the independence

:06:21.:06:30.

referendum. The Chief Executive of the international airline group says

:06:31.:06:35.

it could benefit from a yes vote. The Scottish Government could get

:06:36.:06:41.

rid of air passenger duty. Gamekeepers want to end the ban on

:06:42.:06:54.

docking working dog's tales. That was the week gone by. Let's take a

:06:55.:07:00.

look now at what's in the Sunday papers and what's happening in the

:07:01.:07:04.

week to come. Joining me this morning is the writer and columnist

:07:05.:07:07.

Katie Grant and the author and Scotsman columnist George Kerevan.

:07:08.:07:19.

The Sunday Times headline. It says that the Better Together campaign

:07:20.:07:25.

has failed to raise even half of its funding murky. Is there a crisis? It

:07:26.:07:35.

is a bit of a concern. The Yes campaign have lots of money,

:07:36.:07:41.

particularly from lottery winners. I think that the Yes campaign and the

:07:42.:07:49.

SNB Aaron slight disagreement about who actually owns the money. -- SNP

:07:50.:08:11.

are in slight disagreement. The London press has insane headlines

:08:12.:08:14.

every day about what will go wrong if we vote yes. If you put the

:08:15.:08:23.

propaganda and the money that is Better Together has, you can see

:08:24.:08:27.

that the union side has the big money. Scotland On Sunday says that

:08:28.:08:44.

to lottery winners are handing over a seven figure sum to the yes

:08:45.:08:51.

campaign. They are putting their money where their politics is. Here

:08:52.:08:59.

we have a debate and the entire London media is on the Unionist

:09:00.:09:07.

side. I do not think that is democratic affair and it shows you

:09:08.:09:12.

the kind of difficulties that we have in having a debate in Scotland

:09:13.:09:17.

on a roll in. Do we need to look at how the media is behaving in all of

:09:18.:09:23.

this? I think it is true to say that the media coverage on both sides is

:09:24.:09:28.

pretty awful. One side is doom and gloom and the other is away with the

:09:29.:09:36.

fairies. The Yes side has no major media. We need to have a more

:09:37.:09:45.

balanced board. It would be good to have one newspaper really good goal

:09:46.:09:49.

that was not just about politics but was also about the issues. Perhaps

:09:50.:09:56.

no one would read it. Are you saying that newspapers should not express

:09:57.:10:02.

an opinion? I do not think we will ever get the magic moment when there

:10:03.:10:07.

is complete objectivity that we need both sides arguing it out in the

:10:08.:10:11.

media. We do not have the same kind of weight of argument for the yes

:10:12.:10:16.

vote in the media as we do for the no vote. It is coming from London.

:10:17.:10:21.

Scottish newspapers do not argue the yes vote. There could be more papers

:10:22.:10:28.

in Scotland and Scotland is capable of generating newspapers are self

:10:29.:10:34.

but perhaps the Yes campaign is not entirely convincing. There is

:10:35.:10:46.

coverage in Scotland On Sunday about Labour's plans for Hollywood. --

:10:47.:11:06.

plans for Holyrood. We do not have any major London parties saying that

:11:07.:11:10.

in the event of a no vote that they will expand powers for Scotland.

:11:11.:11:22.

These are the parties of the United Kingdom. I do not think it is fair

:11:23.:11:25.

to say that London is seeing this and Scotland is being dumbed down.

:11:26.:11:46.

-- 's London is saying this. Once you get beyond a certain number of

:11:47.:11:50.

powers, why not have independence? It is a difficult balance to draw

:11:51.:12:09.

and I think everybody is in a stew. Those divisions are clearly played

:12:10.:12:19.

on by the Yes campaign. A divided opposition is a weak opposition.

:12:20.:12:26.

This is what everybody will have to do and say what they believe rather

:12:27.:12:29.

than keeping on playing politics which puts most people. 200 days to

:12:30.:12:44.

go until the referendum. The front page of the Sunday Herlad. Herald

:12:45.:12:54.

speaks about Nicola Sturgeon's speech tomorrow. There are divisions

:12:55.:13:06.

in the yes campaign, too? I suspect that the majority of opinion in

:13:07.:13:13.

Scotland is centre-left and social democratic. I think that in England

:13:14.:13:20.

things are going in the opposite direction. Why do you think that

:13:21.:13:27.

Alex Salmond needs to go to London to make a speech? If I was him, I

:13:28.:13:34.

would do the same and it will get coverage in all the newspapers.

:13:35.:13:40.

Maybe David Cameron will come up north and talk to Alex Salmond.

:13:41.:13:47.

Thank you for joining us. That's all from the us this week. I'll be back

:13:48.:13:52.

at the same time next week. Until then, goodbye.

:13:53.:14:03.

Political magazine presented by Andrew Neil and Andrew Kerr.


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