Browse content similar to 16/03/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. George Osborne's fifth | :00:35. | :00:42. | |
Budget will offer more tax relief for the lower paid, but not for | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
middle income earners being thrust into the 40p tax bracket. That's our | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
Top Story. Ed Balls says millions of people aren't feeling any benefit | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
from the recovery. We'll discuss the economy with big political beasts | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
from Labour, the Conservatives, and the Lib Dems. Now that Ed Miliband | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
has effectively ruled out an IN/OUT EU referendum how does UKIP deal | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
with Tory claims that a vote for UKIP means no chance of a | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
referendum. UKIP leader Nigel Farage joins me for the Sunday Interview. | :01:09. | :01:18. | |
Coming up in Sunday Politics Scotland. The Conservatives say | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
they're committed to more powers for the Scottish Parliament, but are | :01:22. | :01:22. | |
they serious about delivering them? Lewis and Janan Ganesh. They'll be | :01:23. | :01:39. | |
tweeting their thoughts using the hashtag #bbcsp throughout the | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
programme. So, just three months after his last major financial | :01:45. | :01:46. | |
statement, George Osborne will be at the despatch box again on Wednesday, | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
delivering his 2014 Budget. The Chancellor has already previewed his | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
own speech, pledging to build what he calls a "resilient economy". The | :01:56. | :02:05. | |
message I will give in the Budget is the economic plan is working but the | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
job is far from done. We need to build resilient economy which means | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
addressing the long-term weaknesses in Britain that we don't export | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
enough, invest enough, build enough, make enough. Those are the things I | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
will address because we want Britain to earn its way in the world. George | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
Osborne's opposite number, Ed Balls, has also been talking ahead of the | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
Budget. He says not everyone is feeling the benefit of the economic | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
recovery, and again attacked the Government's decision to reduce the | :02:31. | :02:37. | |
top rate of tax from 50 to 45%. George Osborne is only ever tough | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
when he's having a go at the week and the voiceless. Labour is willing | :02:42. | :02:43. | |
to face up to people on the highest incomes and say, I'm sorry, | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
justifying a big tax cut at this time is not fair. We will take away | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
the winter allowance from the richer pensioners, and I think that's the | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
right thing to do. George Osborne might agree, but he's not allowed to | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
say so. That was the Chancellor and the shadow chancellor. Janan, it | :03:04. | :03:06. | |
seems like we are in a race against time. No one argues that the | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
recovery is not under way, in fact it looks quite strong after a long | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
wait, but will it feed through to the living standards of ordinary | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
people in time for the May election? They only have 14 months to do it. | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
The big economic variable is business investment. Even during the | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
downturn, businesses hoarded a lot of cash. The question is, are they | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
confident enough to release that into investment and wages? Taking on | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
new people, giving them higher pay settlements. That could make the | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
difference and the country will feel more prosperous and this time next | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
year. But come to think of it, it strikes me, that how anticipated it | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
is, it's the least talked about Budget for many years. I think that | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
is because the economy has settled down a bit, but also because people | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
have got used to the idea that there is no such thing as a giveaway. | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
Anything that is a tax cut will be taken away as a tax rise or spending | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
cut. That's true during the good times but during fiscal | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
consolidation, it's avoidable. -- unavoidable. There is a plus and | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
minus for the Conservatives here. 49% of people think the government | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
is on roughly the right course, but only 16% think that their financial | :04:23. | :04:24. | |
circumstances will improve this year. It will be a tough one for the | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
Labour Party to respond to. I agree with Janan. Everyone seems bored | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
with the run-up to the Budget. The front page of the Sunday Times was | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
about fox hunting, the front page of the Sunday Telegraph was about EU | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
renegotiation. Maybe we are saying this because there have not been | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
many leaks. We have got used to them, and most of the George Osborne | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
chat on Twitter was about how long his tie was. Freakishly long. I | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
wouldn't dare to speculate why. Anything we should read into that? I | :05:00. | :05:06. | |
don't know. For a long while there was no recovery, then it was it is a | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
weak recovery, and now, all right, it's strong but not reaching | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
everyone in the country. That is where we are in the debate. That's | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
right, and the Conservative MPs are so anxious and they are making | :05:23. | :05:28. | |
George Osborne announcing the rays in the personal allowance will go | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
up, saying it might go up to 10,750 from next year, and Conservative MPs | :05:33. | :05:40. | |
say that that's OK but we need to think about the middle voters. | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
People are saying the economy is recovering but no one is feeling it | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
in their pocket. These are people snagged in at a 40p tax rate. The | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
Tories are saying these are our people and we have to get to them. | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
He has given the Lib Dems more than they could have hoped for on raising | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
the threshold. Why is he not saying we have done a bit for you, now we | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
have to look after our people and get some of these people out of that | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
40% bracket? Partly because the Lib Dems have asked for it so | :06:14. | :06:15. | |
insistently behind-the-scenes. Somebody from the Treasury this week | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
told me that these debates behind the scenes between the Lib Dems and | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
Tories are incredibly tenacious and get more so every year. The Lib Dems | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
have been insistent about going further on the threshold. The second | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
reason is that the Tories think the issue can work for them in the next | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
election. They can take the credit. If they enthusiastically going to | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
?12,000 and make it a manifesto pledge, they can claim ownership of | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
the policy. The Liberal Democrats want to take it to 12,500, which | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
means you are getting into minimum wage territory. It's incredibly | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
expensive and the Tories are saying that maybe you would be looking at | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
the 40p rate. The Tories have played as well. There have been authorised | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
briefings about the 40p rate, and Cameron and Osborne have said that | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
their priority was helping the lowest paid which is a useful | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
statement to make and it appeals to the UKIP voters who are the | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
blue-collar workers. And we are right, the economy will determine | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
the next election? You assume so. It was ever that is. It didn't in 1992 | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
or 1987. It did in 1992. Ed Miliband's announcement last week | :07:25. | :07:34. | |
that a Labour government would not hold a referendum on Europe unless | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
there's another transfer of powers from Britain to Brussels has | :07:38. | :07:39. | |
certainly clarified matters. UKIP say it just shows the mainstream | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
parties can't be trusted. The Conservatives think it means UKIP | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
voters might now flock back to them as the only realistic chance of | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
securing a referendum. Giles Dilnot reports. | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
When it comes to Europe and Britain's relation to it, the | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
question is whether the answer is answered by a question. To be in or | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
not to be in, that is the question, and our politicians have seemed less | :08:04. | :08:05. | |
interested in question itself but whether they want to let us answer | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
it. Labour clarified their position last week. There will be no transfer | :08:10. | :08:22. | |
of powers without an in out referendum, without a clear choice | :08:23. | :08:24. | |
as to whether Britain will stay in the EU. That seems yes to a | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
referendum, but hold on. I believe it is unlikely that this lock will | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
be used in the next Parliament. So that's a no. The Conservatives say | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
yes to asking, in 2017, if re-elected, but haven't always. In | :08:38. | :08:47. | |
2011, 81 Tory MPs defied the PM by voting for a referendum on EU | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
membership: the largest rebellion against a Tory prime minister over | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
Europe. Prompted by a petition from over 100,000 members of the public. | :08:54. | :09:04. | |
The wrong question at the wrong time said the Foreign Secretary of a | :09:05. | :09:06. | |
coalition Government including selfie-conciously-pro European Lib | :09:07. | :09:08. | |
Dems, who had a referendum pledge in their 2010 manifesto, but only in | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
certain circumstances. So we have the newspapers, and the public | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
meeting leaflets. UKIP have always wanted the question put regardless. | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
But Labour's new position may change things and The Conservatives think | :09:18. | :09:25. | |
so. I think it does, because, you know, we are saying very clearly, | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
like UKIP, we want a referendum, but only a Conservative government can | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
deliver it because most suffer largest would say it is possible in | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
the first past the post system to have a UKIP government -- | :09:43. | :09:50. | |
sophologists. And then it's easy for as to say that if a UKIP vote lets | :09:51. | :09:58. | |
in a Conservative government, then they won't hold a referendum. UKIP | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
seem undaunted by the clarifications of the other parties, campaigning | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
like the rest but with a "tell it how it is, just saying what you're | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
thinking, we aren't like them" attitude. They seem more worried | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
about us and what we want, and I don't see that in the other parties. | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
In parts of the UK, like South Essex, it's a message they think is | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
working. They are taking the voters for granted again and people have | :10:29. | :10:31. | |
had enough. People are angry, they see people saying they will get a | :10:32. | :10:38. | |
vote on the European Union, but then it just comes down the road. They | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
were quick to capitalise on the announcements, saying only the | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
Conservatives will give you say, so does it change things? Not really. | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
We have been talking about a referendum and having a debate on | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
the European Union for years, and the other parties are playing catch | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
up. They have a trust issue. Nobody trusts them on the European Union | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
and that is why people come to us. Who the average UKIP voter is, or | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
how they voted before is complicated, and what dent they | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
might make on Conservative and Labour votes in 2015 is trickier | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
still, but someone's been crunching the numbers anyway. We reckon it is | :11:16. | :11:23. | |
between 25 and 30% of the electorate broadly share the UKIP motivation, | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
so to top out at that level would be difficult. That's an awful lot of | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
voters, but it's not the majority, and this is the reason why the main | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
parties can't afford to just openly appealed to the UKIP electorate too | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
hard because the elections are won and lost amongst the other 70%, the | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
middle-class, the graduate, the younger, ethnic minorities. An | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
appeal to the values of UKIP voters will alienate some of the other | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
groups, and they are arguably more significant in winning the election. | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
Whatever, the numbers UKIPers seem doggedly determined to dig away at | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
any support the other parties have previously enjoyed. | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
Giles Dilnot reporting. UKIP's leader, Nigel Farage, joins me now | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
for the Sunday Interview. Nigel Farage, welcome back. Good | :12:06. | :12:22. | |
morning. So the Labour Party has shot a fox. If Ed Miliband is the | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
next by Minister, there will not be a referendum customer there's a long | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
way between now and the next election, and Conservative party | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
jobs and changes. We had a cast-iron guarantee of a referendum from | :12:34. | :12:36. | |
camera, then he three line whip people to vote against it, and now | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
they are for it. What the Labour Party has done is open up a huge | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
blank to us, and that is what we will go for in the European | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
elections this coming year in May. I think there is a very strong chance | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
that Labour will match the Conservative pledge by the next | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
general election. There may be, but at the moment he has ruled it out, | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
and if he does not change his mind and goes into the election with the | :13:01. | :13:03. | |
policy as it is, the only chance of a referendum is a Tory government. | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
If you think the Tories will form a majority, which I think is unlikely. | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
Remember, two thirds of our voters would never vote Conservative | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
anyway. There is still this line of questioning that assumes UKIP voters | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
are middle-class Tories. We have some voters like that, but most of | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
them are coming to us from Labour, some from the Lib Dems and a lot of | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
nonvoters. But it come the election you failed to change Mr Miliband's | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
line, I repeat, the only chance of a referendum, if you want a | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
referendum, if that is what matters, and the polls suggest it doesn't | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
matter to that many people, but if that is what matters, the only way | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
you can get one is to vote Conservative. No, because you have a | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
situation in key marginals, especially where all three parties | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
are getting a good share, where we will see, and this depends a lot on | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
the local elections and the European elections, there are target | :14:01. | :14:07. | |
constituencies where UKIP has a reasonably good chance of winning a | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
seat, and that will change the agenda. Every vote for UKIP makes a | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
Tory government less likely. Arab voters are not Tory. Only a third of | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
the UKIP boat comes from the Conservative party -- our voters are | :14:21. | :14:27. | |
not Tory. -- the UKIP vote. It was mentioned earlier, about blue-collar | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
voters. We pick up far more Labour Party and nonvoters than | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
conservatives. On the balance of what the effect of the UKIP boat | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
is, the Tories should worry about us, they should worry about the fact | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
they have lost faith with their own electorate. Even if there is a | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
minority Ed Miliband government, it means no referendum. Labour and the | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
Liberal Democrats are now at one on the matter. The next election is in | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
a few weeks time, the European elections. What happens in those | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
elections will likely change the party stands and position on a | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
referendum. The fact that Ed Miliband has said this means, for | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
us, our big target on the 22nd of May will be the Labour voters in the | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
Midlands and northern cities, and if we do hammer into that boat and we | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
are able to beat Labour on the day, there's a good chance of their | :15:15. | :15:24. | |
policy changing. One poll this morning suggests Labour is close to | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
you at 28, the Conservatives down at 21, the Lib Dems down at eight. You | :15:32. | :15:38. | |
are taking votes from the Conservatives and the Liberal | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
Democrats. We are certainly taking votes from the Lib Dems but that is | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
comparing the poll with one year ago when I don't think most people knew | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
what the question really was. You seem to be in an impossible position | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
because the better you do in a general election, the less chance | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
there will be a referendum by 2020. No, look at the numbers. Only a | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
third of our voters are Conservatives. When we have polled | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
voters that have come to us, we asked them if there was no UKIP | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
candidate who would you vote for, less than one in five said | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
Conservative. Less than one in five UKIP voters would be tempted to vote | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
Conservative under any circumstances so the arithmetic does not suggest | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
we are the Conservative problem, it suggests we are hurting all of the | :16:37. | :16:39. | |
parties and the reason the Tories are in trouble is because they have | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
lost their traditional base. Why do you think Nick Clegg is debating | :16:45. | :16:51. | |
Europe? I think they are in trouble, at 8% they could be wiped | :16:52. | :16:59. | |
out, they could go from 12 to nothing and I think it is a chance | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
for Nick Clegg to raise their profile. They are fringe party with | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
respect to this contest so I see why he wants to do it. One of our big | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
criticisms is that we have not been able to have a full debate on | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
national television on the alternatives of the European Union | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
so I am looking forward to it. How are you preparing? I think you can | :17:25. | :17:38. | |
be over scripted with these things. Are you not doing mock debates? No, | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
I am checking my facts and figures and making sure that I can show the | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
British people that in terms of jobs, we would be far better off not | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
being within the European Union, not being within its rule book, not | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
suffering from some of the green taxes they are putting on the | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
manufacturing industry. The idea that 3 million jobs are at risk, I | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
want to show why that is nonsense. Who do you think is playing you in | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
their mock debates? They probably went to the pub and found someone! | :18:17. | :18:24. | |
We will see. You have promised to do whatever it takes to fund your | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
European election campaign, how much has been given so far? Just give it | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
a few weeks and you will see what Paul is planning to do. He has made | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
a substantial investment in the campaign already. How much? I'm not | :18:41. | :18:49. | |
answering that for now. We are well on our way to a properly funded | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
campaign and our big target will be the big cities and the working vote | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
in those communities. Your deputy chairman Neil Hamilton is another | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
former Tory, he says so far we haven't seen the colour of his | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
money. Exactly two weeks ago, and things have changed since then. Mr | :19:10. | :19:16. | |
Sykes has written a cheque since then? Yes. This morning's papers | :19:17. | :19:25. | |
saying you will be asking MEPs to contribute ?50,000 each, is that | :19:26. | :19:33. | |
true? Over the next five years, yes. Not for the European campaign. So | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
lack of money will not be an excuse. We will have a properly funded | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
campaign. How we raise the kind of money needed to fund the general | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
election afterwards is another question. What is UKIP's policy on | :19:49. | :19:59. | |
paying family members? We don't encourage it and I didn't employ any | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
family member for years. My wife ended up doing the job and paid for | :20:05. | :20:10. | |
the first seven years of my job. She is paid now? Until May, then she | :20:11. | :20:18. | |
comes off the payroll am which leaves me with a huge problem. In | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
2004 you said, UKIP MEPs will not employ wives and there will be no | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
exceptions. An exception was made because I became leader of the | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
National party as well as a leader of the group in European | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
Parliament. Things do change in life, and you can criticise me for | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
whatever you like, but I cannot be criticised for not having a big | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
enough workload. No, but you didn't employ your wife when you had told | :20:50. | :20:58. | |
others not to do it your party. Nobody else in my party has a big | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
job in Europe and the UK. We made the exception for this because of | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
very unusual circumstances. It also looks like there was a monetary | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
calculation. Listen to this clip from a BBC documentary in 2000. It | :21:12. | :21:18. | |
is a good job. I worked it out because so much of what you get is | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
after tax that if you used the secretarial allowances to pay your | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
wife on top of the other games you can play, I reckon this job in | :21:28. | :21:36. | |
Stirling term is over a quarter of ?1 million a year. That is what you | :21:37. | :21:38. | |
would need to earn working for Goldman Sachs or someone like that. | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
I agree with that. More importantly the way you really make money in the | :21:46. | :21:48. | |
European Parliament is being their five days a week, because you sign | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
in every day, you get 300 euros every day, and that is how people | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
maxed out. The criticism of me is that I am not there enough so | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
whatever good or bad I have done in the European Parliament, financial | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
gain has not been one of the benefits. There have been | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
allegations of you also employing a former mistress on the same European | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
Parliamentary allowance, you deny that? I am very upset with the BBC | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
coverage of this. The ten o'clock news run this as a story without | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
explaining that that allegation was made using Parliamentary privilege | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
by somebody on bail facing serious fraud charges. I thought that was | :22:33. | :22:40. | |
pretty poor. You have a chance to do that and you deny you have employed | :22:41. | :22:48. | |
a former mistress? Yes, but if you look at many of the things said over | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
the last week, I think it is becoming pretty clear to voters that | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
the establishment are becoming terrified of UKIP and they will use | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
anything they can find to do us down in public. Is an MEP employs his | :23:04. | :23:10. | |
wife and his former mistress, that would be resigning matter, wouldn't | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
it? Yes, particularly if the assumption was that money was being | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
taped for work but was not being done. Who do you think is behind | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
these stories? It is all about negative, it is all about attacks, | :23:28. | :23:34. | |
but I don't think it is actually going to work because so much of | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
what has been said in the last week is nonsense. A reputable daily | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
newspaper said I shouldn't be trusted because I had stored six | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
times for the Conservative party, I have never even stored in a local | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
council election. I think if you keep kicking an underdog, it will | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
make the British people rally around us. Is it the Conservatives? Yes, | :23:57. | :24:04. | |
make the British people rally around and the idea that all of our voters | :24:05. | :24:11. | |
are retired colonels is simply not true. We get some voters from the | :24:12. | :24:20. | |
Labour side as well. Would you consider standing in a Labour seat | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
if you are so sure you are getting Labour votes? Yes, but the key for | :24:26. | :24:33. | |
UKIP is that it has to be marginal. Just for your own future, if you | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
fail to win a single soul -- single seat in the general election, if Ed | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
Miliband fails to win an outright majority, will you stand down as | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
UKIP leader? I would think within about 12 hours, yes. I will have | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
failed, I got into politics not because I wanted a career in | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
politics, far from it. I did it because I don't think this European | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
entanglement is right for our country. I think a lot of people | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
have woken up to the idea we have lost control of our borders and now | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
is the moment for UKIP to achieve what it set out to do. Will UKIP | :25:15. | :25:21. | |
continue without you if you stand down? Of course it will. I know that | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
everyone says it is a one-man band but it is far from that. We have had | :25:27. | :25:35. | |
some painful moments, getting rid of old UKIP, new UKIP is more | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
professional, less angry and it is going places. Nigel Farage, thank | :25:39. | :25:45. | |
you for being with us. So, what else should we be looking | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
out for in Wednesday's Budget statement? We've compiled a Sunday | :25:49. | :25:50. | |
Politics guide to the Chancellor's likely announcements. | :25:51. | :25:52. | |
Eyes down everyone, it's time for a bit of budget bingo. Let's see what | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
we will get from the man who lives at legs 11. Despite some good news | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
on the economy, George Osborne says that this will be a Budget of hard | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
truths with more pain ahead in order to get the public finances back | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
under control. But many in the Conservative party, including the | :26:07. | :26:08. | |
former chancellor Norman Lamont, want Mr Osborne to help the middle | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
classes by doing something about the 4.4 million people who fall into the | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
40% bracket. Around one million more people pay tax at that rate compared | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
to 2010 because the higher tax threshold hasn't increased in line | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
with inflation. Mr Osborne has indicated he might tackle the issue | :26:28. | :26:30. | |
in the next Conservative manifesto, but for now he is focused on helping | :26:31. | :26:36. | |
the low paid. It's likely we will see another increase in the amount | :26:37. | :26:39. | |
you can earn before being taxed, perhaps up another ?500 to ?10,500. | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
The Chancellor is going to flesh out the details of a tax break for | :26:46. | :26:48. | |
childcare payments, and there could be cries of 'house' with the promise | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
of more help for the building industry. The Help To Buy scheme | :26:52. | :27:08. | |
will be extended to 2020 and there could be the go-ahead for the first | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
Garden City in 40 years. Finally, bingo regulars could be celebrating | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
a full house with a possible cut in bingo tax. | :27:16. | :27:17. | |
And I've been joined in the studio by the former Conservative | :27:18. | :27:19. | |
chancellor Norman Lamont, in Salford by the former Labour Cabinet | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
minister Hazel Blears, and in Aberdeen by the Lib Dem deputy | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
leader, Malcolm Bruce. Let me come to Norman Lamont first, you and | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
another former Tory Chancellor, Nigel Lawson, have called in the | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
fall in the threshold for the rate at which the 40p clicks in. I would | :27:36. | :27:46. | |
have preferred an adjustment in the Budget but I agree with what you are | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
saying, it sounds like the Chancellor will not do that. My main | :27:50. | :27:56. | |
point is that you cannot go on forever and forever increasing the | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
personal allowance and not increasing the 40% tax threshold | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
because you are driving more and more people into that band. It is an | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
expensive policy because in order to keep the number of people not paying | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
tax constant, you have to keep adjusting it each year. When this | :28:13. | :28:19. | |
was introduced by Nigel Lawson, it applied to one in 20 people, the 40% | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
rate, it now applies to one in six people. By next year, there will be | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
6 million people paying base. Why do you think your Tory colleagues seem | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
happy to go along with the Lib Dems and target whatever money there is | :28:37. | :28:51. | |
for tax cuts rather -- on the lower paid rather than the middle incomes? | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
They are not helping the lowest paid. If you wanted to really help | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
the lowest paid people you would raise the threshold for national | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
insurance contributions, which is around ?6,000. Is it the Lib Dems | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
stopping any rise in the 40p threshold? We are concentrating on | :29:13. | :29:22. | |
raising the lower threshold because we believe that is the way to help | :29:23. | :29:30. | |
those on lower incomes. Whilst they haven't benefited as much as the | :29:31. | :29:33. | |
lower paid they have participated and I think people understand right | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
now, if you were going to prioritise the high earners, when we are still | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
trying to help those on lower and middle incomes who haven't enjoyed | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
great pay increases but have got the benefit of these tax increases, that | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
is why we would like to do it for the minimum wage level. But the | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
poorest will not benefit at all. The poorest 16% already don't pay tax. | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
Why don't you increase the threshold at which National Insurance starts? | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
You only have two earned ?5,500 before you start to pay it. You've | :30:09. | :30:16. | |
got to remember that the raising of the threshold to ?10,000 or more was | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
something the Tories said we could not afford. Why are you continuing | :30:20. | :30:28. | |
to do it? If you want to help the working poor, the way would be to | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
take the lowest out of national insurance. The view we take is they | :30:33. | :30:38. | |
are benefiting, and have benefited from, the raising of the tax | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
threshold. You now have to earn ?10,000, we hope eventually 12,500, | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
and that means only people on very low wages. If you opt out of | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
national insurance, you're saying to people that you make no contribution | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
to the welfare system, so there is a general principle that people should | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
participate and paying, and also claim when they need something out. | :31:01. | :31:06. | |
We thought raising the threshold was simple and effective at a time of | :31:07. | :31:09. | |
economic austerity and the right way to deliver a helpful support to | :31:10. | :31:16. | |
welcoming people. -- working people. With the Labour Party continue to | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
raise the threshold, or do they think there is a case that there are | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
too many people being dragged into the 40p tax bracket? If Norman | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
Lamont thinks this is the right time to benefit people who are reasonably | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
well off rather than those who are struggling to make ends meet, then | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
genuinely, I say it respectfully, I don't think he's living in the world | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
the rest of us are. Most working people have seen their wages | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
effectively reduced by about ?1600 because they have been frozen, so | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
the right thing is to help people on modest incomes. I also understand | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
that if the 40% threshold went up, the people who would benefit the | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
most, as ever, are the people who are really well off, not the people | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
in the middle. The Conservatives have already reduced the 50p tax on | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
people over ?150,000 a year, and we have to concentrate on the people | :32:10. | :32:12. | |
going out to work, doing their best to bring their children up and have | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
a decent life and need a bit of help. I think raising the threshold | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
is a good thing. We would bring back the 10p tax, which we should never | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
have abolished, and do things with regard to childcare. At the moment, | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
childcare costs the average family as much as their mortgage, for | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
goodness sake. We would give 25 hours free childcare for youngsters | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
over three and four years old. That would be a massive boost the working | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
families. We are talking about nurses, tube drivers, warrant | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
officers in the army. There are many people who are not well off but have | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
been squeezed in the way everybody has been squeezed and they are | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
finding it continuing. I am stunned by Malcolm's argument where | :32:58. | :33:00. | |
everybody should pay something so you should not take people out of | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
national insurance, but the principle doesn't apply to income | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
tax. You can stand that argument on its head and apply it to income tax. | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
Most people don't see a difference between income tax and national | :33:15. | :33:16. | |
insurance, it's the same thing to most people. It is true that it | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
isn't really an insurance fund and there is an argument from merging | :33:22. | :33:24. | |
both of them. But we have concentrated on a simple tax | :33:25. | :33:30. | |
proposition. Norman is ignoring the fact the people on the 40% rate have | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
benefited by the raising of the personal allowance. To say they have | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
been squeezed is unfair. The calculation is that an ordinary | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
taxpayer will be ?700 better off at the current threshold, and about | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
?500 better off at the higher rate. It is misleading to say the better | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
off we'll be paying more. I agree with Hazel, if you go to the 40% | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
rate, it's the higher earners who benefit the most, and we won't do | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
that when the economy is not where it was before the crash. How much | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
will the lower paid be better off if you reintroduce the 10p rate? | :34:08. | :34:14. | |
Significantly better off. I don't have the figure myself, but they'd | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
be significantly better off and the Budget should be a mixture of | :34:21. | :34:23. | |
measures to help people who work hard. That is why I think the | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
childcare issue has to be addressed. ?100 a week of the people | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
with childcare payments. It is a massive issue. We want the job is | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
guaranteed to get young people back into work. There's been hardly any | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
discussion about that, and we have nearly 1 million people who have | :34:42. | :34:44. | |
been out of work for six months or more, and as a country we need to do | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
something to help that. 350,000 full-time students, so it is a | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
misleading figure. It is not a million including full-time | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
students. All parties do this. It sounds to me, Malcolm Bruce, you | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
have more in common Good morning and welcome to Sunday | :35:03. | :37:58. | |
Politics Scotland. Coming up on the programme.... The Conservatives say | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
they're committed to more powers for the Scottish Parliament, but CAN | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
they, WILL they deliver? Do we need more laws to protect the public from | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
dangerous dogs? Brothers and sisters we have come out to give support, | :38:15. | :38:22. | |
while finishing as a result of the policy of the current government. | :38:23. | :38:29. | |
And we pay tribute to Tony Benn, who died on Friday. A party in fine | :38:30. | :38:36. | |
fettle with a fight on its hands ahead of the referendum. That's the | :38:37. | :38:38. | |
message the Scottish Conservatives have been pushing at their | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
conference in Edinburgh, along with a promise from the Prime Minister | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
about more powers for Holyrood IF Scots vote No. At the start of a | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
very busy conference season, here's our political correspondent Glenn | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
Campbell. You would not buy a house without getting a survey done, you | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
would not choose a car without an MOT, those were David Cameron's | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
words to conference, he wants voters to fully test all the arguments over | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
independence, before decisions are made on how to vote in the | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
referendum. What about his alternative to independence? More | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
devolution, maybe we should put that to the test as well. Let me be | :39:21. | :39:26. | |
clear, a vote for Noel is not a vote for no change. We are committed to | :39:27. | :39:37. | |
making devolution work better, not because we want to give Alex Salmond | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
a consolation prize in Scotland votes no, but because it is the | :39:41. | :39:42. | |
right thing to do. Not everyone agrees with that. It sounds like I | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
am in the menorah tea who does not think that further powers for | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
Scotland and further tax-raising powers would be a good thing. She | :39:52. | :39:58. | |
was not alone. It seems crazy to be thinking about more powers when they | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
are not using the powers they have. They were the only two to question | :40:04. | :40:09. | |
this. But when some of those sitting on the party commission, which is | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
reviewing the powers, discussed their work. The difficulty is that | :40:13. | :40:19. | |
the constitutional debate has moved on beyond feeling that the status | :40:20. | :40:26. | |
quo is an option. In 1997, the Conservatives campaigned against the | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
creation of a Scottish Parliament. In the 1979 devolution referendum, | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
the former Prime Minister suggested a no vote might be a better offer. | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
The offer never came. So why should the Tories be trusted to deliver | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
this time? We have seen, even without a referendum, the British | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
Government, both the previous Labour government and the current | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
government, have been willing to get additional powers to Holyrood. David | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
Cameron hopes to keep voters sweet by coming up with a new recipe for | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
devolution which includes power for the Scottish Parliament to raise | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
more of the money it spends. At least one senior Conservative once a | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
radical shift on tax powers. Scotland has to stand on its own | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
feet and be fiscally responsible. That will stop the drift to | :41:21. | :41:34. | |
independence. I would like full fiscal autonomy. We should be | :41:35. | :41:36. | |
standing on own feet and be responsible for raising and spending | :41:37. | :41:38. | |
our own money. That is too radical for this former Cabinet minister. I | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
think you have to look at two things, first of all, is any | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
proposal, would it be good for Scotland, but also is it fair to the | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
rest of the UK if we want to remain part of the UK? You need balance. | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
Whatever model of devolution the Conservatives have in mind, the | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
mechanics are still being worked on. At this stage they want to convince | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
voters that the party that did not want devolution is now prepared to | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
drive the next phase of the development if the referendum puts | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
the brakes on independence. Ruth Davidson isn't available for | :42:17. | :42:19. | |
interview at the moment, she's preparing her conference speech | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
which she'll be making at 1.15pm. However, Glenn Campbell caught up | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
with her during the conference for an interview... That is picked up on | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
the Prime Minister's speech and what he had to say about a no vote. How | :42:30. | :42:35. | |
do we know that a no vote did not mean any change from a Conservative | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
point of view? I think we have gone past whether there is a point to be | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
made for a devolution settlement and we are now on to what the case | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
should be, what the changes should be and how we deliver it. The Prime | :42:49. | :42:59. | |
Minister came on board over a year ago so that we could look at how we | :43:00. | :43:01. | |
increased responsibility and you need to look at the record of the | :43:02. | :43:09. | |
Prime Minister. Were he has been asked to deliver, he has delivered. | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
He has stuck with the process. People have pointed out that he said | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
a no vote can mean further devolution, but does not necessarily | :43:20. | :43:26. | |
mean it will, does it? You are dancing on their head of a pen. The | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
Prime Minister has made it clear, not just when he was speaking on | :43:30. | :43:39. | |
Friday, he has done for over a year, that E is on board with the process. | :43:40. | :43:47. | |
When he talks about greater responsibility for Holyrood to raise | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
more of the money it spends, how much more? I will not pre-empt what | :43:52. | :43:57. | |
Tom will bring forward, we have a lot of work going on over the course | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
of a year, including support from people who are expert in the | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
economy, business owners, constitutional lawyers, I will not | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
give you a figure, because I do not know. What about Struan Stevenson, | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
your outgoing member of the European Parliament, he reckons that Holyrood | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
should raise all the money it spends, that all taxes raised in | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
Scotland should be under a Holyrood control and that a certain amount | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
should be paid to Westminster for the services it provides, is that a | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
possibility? We have a vast array of views. Would you support that? We | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
set up the commission to find out what would work. Some serious work | :44:42. | :44:48. | |
has gone into that. What is interesting about the conference, | :44:49. | :44:51. | |
our tails are up and we have had some of the best attendances in | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
years, we had an open session on Friday and some senior people said | :44:57. | :44:59. | |
they should not do that, I should not have this broad open and | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
transparent discussion, in case anyone said anything. You are at the | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
leader and you will take forward the proposals, I wonder what the | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
parameters are, might it include a proposal, which sounds like full | :45:16. | :45:21. | |
fiscal autonomy? We have looked at a number of areas, taxation, personal | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
taxation and other taxes as well. They have looked at the powers that | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
the Scottish Parliament has and how it uses them, things like the | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
committee structure, whether it has been tested to breaking point. It | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
also looks at how devolution can be further pushed out so it is not all | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
about power is being held in Holyrood, but how it can be pushed | :45:45. | :45:48. | |
out to local authorities and even beyond, to local individuals as | :45:49. | :46:01. | |
well. It has looked at lots of different areas, what it comes back | :46:02. | :46:04. | |
with, we will wait to see and I will make sure you are the first to know. | :46:05. | :46:07. | |
Do you rule out full fiscal at an Army? I know what you are trying to | :46:08. | :46:10. | |
do. I will wait and see what Tom brings back. You are putting words | :46:11. | :46:18. | |
in my mouth. We will wait until the recommendations come back. Gordon | :46:19. | :46:25. | |
Brown said that the 80, National Insurance should all remain at | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
Westminster, do you agree with him? The recent ruling in the European | :46:31. | :46:36. | |
Court shows that the 18 is not able to be devolved, it is illegal -- | :46:37. | :46:47. | |
VAT. It is not something we can consider here, because the finest | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
legal mind say it is not allowed. What about National Insurance? If | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
you're going to look at corporation taxes, you need to see what business | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
wants. Three of our commissioners have come from the world of | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
business, whether they are business owners or whether they represent | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
business organisations, it is something they are looking at, but I | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
cannot tell you what the result is because I do not have it. By May you | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
will see what both Labour and the Liberal Democrats are proposing, any | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
possibility of a three party agreement ahead of the referendum? | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
For me, I do not think that you want to have a common position, I do not | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
think politics stops because a referendum is happening. The way we | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
have always done things is that individual parties see what they | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
want to implement and they take it to the nation and in the manifesto | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
and people vote on it. That is what democracy is about. I do not see | :47:52. | :47:55. | |
that there will be a joint position between the three parties, but I | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
think when all of the publications are out, it will be clear where the | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
areas of overlap bar and people will have a clear idea of the direction | :48:03. | :48:10. | |
of travel. Let us talk about the budget. You have been urging the | :48:11. | :48:13. | |
Chancellor to take action on whiskey. I want him to suspend the | :48:14. | :48:18. | |
alcohol duty escalator. In calling for that, you must have an inkling | :48:19. | :48:25. | |
that he is likely to do that. I am coming at this from two areas, one | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
as a Scot who will point out that I have a vested interest in that I am | :48:31. | :48:37. | |
a whiskey drinker. It is in the blood. I am also a Conservative. At | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
the moment, because of the way it is locked in, taxes rise above | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
inflation on whiskey and spirits, we are hitting a point where more than | :48:47. | :48:50. | |
80% of a bottle of whiskey that is sold in this country is going to be | :48:51. | :49:30. | |
tax and duty and I think it is a disgrace that any product is taxed | :49:31. | :49:33. | |
at 80%. I am making a principled argument that we suspend this, do | :49:34. | :49:35. | |
not take it further so that we can benefit our industry. This is one of | :49:36. | :49:38. | |
our great success stories. As a percentage of food and drink exports | :49:39. | :49:41. | |
for the UK, it is massive. The amount of whiskey being sold here | :49:42. | :49:43. | |
has dropped. There is a direct correlation between price and the | :49:44. | :49:54. | |
level of duty and tax involved. If The Scottish government are calling | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
for the same things I have. A suspension of duty for the whiskey | :49:59. | :50:05. | |
industry. Help for oil and gas. The difference between them and us is I | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
the same room as the chancellor whilst they are on the sidelines. | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
That is the difference between Alex Salmond and me. They also seek to | :50:15. | :50:20. | |
mitigate the impact of the bedroom tax. The UK government will this | :50:21. | :50:28. | |
week announced that they will lift a cap on the amount of money the | :50:29. | :50:30. | |
Scottish government can spend in that area. This has been an issue | :50:31. | :50:38. | |
for some time. The Scottish government has money at its disposal | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
to mitigate that policy. It has worked with the Labour Party to do | :50:44. | :50:46. | |
so, that is their chance as the government was Scotland. But I think | :50:47. | :50:57. | |
there are a lot of technical issues. As I understand it, the Treasury has | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
suggested it is incredibly difficult to do. I am not a Treasury employee. | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
I must take on trustworthy civil servants down south tell me. -- what | :51:08. | :51:18. | |
the civil servants. It is incredibly difficult to do. No doubt we will | :51:19. | :51:27. | |
return to that and some other issues in the days ahead. Thank you very | :51:28. | :51:35. | |
much. The number of people attending | :51:36. | :51:38. | |
hospital after a dog attacks in Scotland has almost doubled in the | :51:39. | :51:41. | |
last 15 years. The Scottish government has been carrying out a | :51:42. | :51:43. | |
public consultation on whether additional measures are needed to | :51:44. | :51:46. | |
protect people. It follows a meeting between the First Minister and the | :51:47. | :51:49. | |
parents of three child victims earlier this year. Megan Paterson | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
reports. More than 1000 people were attacked by dogs last year. Brogan | :51:56. | :52:04. | |
was one of them. Viciously mauled by two American Bulldogs. It left her | :52:05. | :52:12. | |
with a broken leg and lasting scars. It has been hard. Up and down to the | :52:13. | :52:19. | |
hospital. And her mental health, one minute she is fine, the next minute | :52:20. | :52:26. | |
she is crying. She is up and down all the time. She cannot go out to | :52:27. | :52:32. | |
play. And with better weather coming, she is still in the same | :52:33. | :52:39. | |
house. She will not go out of play. This government consultation aims to | :52:40. | :52:47. | |
stop attacks like that. It promises compulsory micro-chipping, the | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
reintroduction of dog licenses, and most controversially, muzzling in | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
public places. The plans have been met with a mixed reaction. We think | :52:58. | :53:04. | |
that healthier micro-chipping is the way forward. It is a straightforward | :53:05. | :53:11. | |
and easy thing to offer. With the other things on the agenda we do | :53:12. | :53:18. | |
have some reservations. Regards the muzzling of dogs outside, and | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
licensing laws. We do not think they will help the situation. Dogs must | :53:23. | :53:28. | |
exhibit natural behaviours when out and about and muscle can find them. | :53:29. | :53:37. | |
That may lead to more stress. -- a muzzle confines them. Willmore | :53:38. | :54:03. | |
legislation help? Make richer thing might be useful. -- micro-chipping. | :54:04. | :54:17. | |
But it only ever applies to a responsible dog owner anyway, a | :54:18. | :54:20. | |
bigger push for education, encouraging people to take their | :54:21. | :54:26. | |
dogs for training. Approaches to the problem vary but there is agreement | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
that the responsibility for good behaviour lies with those on two | :54:31. | :54:38. | |
legs rather than war. -- four. I'm now joined here in the studio by | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
Paul Martin the Labour MSP and from Edinburgh we have the SNP MSP | :54:43. | :54:47. | |
Christine Grahame. Christine Grahame, you were instrumental | :54:48. | :54:56. | |
behind the 2010 at all -- act. What more needs to be done? We could do | :54:57. | :55:08. | |
with more publicity for that act. It puts responsibility firmly in the | :55:09. | :55:11. | |
hands of the owner, where it should be. There have been, in fact, in the | :55:12. | :55:24. | |
past two years, up to 2013, a doubling of investigations where | :55:25. | :55:27. | |
people have reported at the local authority level. My concern, and I | :55:28. | :55:37. | |
firmly believe in voluntary micro-chipping, my concern is that | :55:38. | :55:44. | |
compulsory micro-chipping will not necessarily lead to an end of | :55:45. | :55:53. | |
attacks. It is the wrong dog, in their hands of the wrong owner. We | :55:54. | :56:00. | |
need education before we even begin to think about having a dog. | :56:01. | :56:13. | |
Paul Martin, you are keen on a list, and expanding it? Absolutely. We | :56:14. | :56:21. | |
need to look at all measures that have to be considered. We need a | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
radical overhaul of existing measures and to consider additional | :56:27. | :56:36. | |
measures. We must assess ownership in the first place, some people | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
should not own a dog. We need legislation that ensures dogs do not | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
fall into the wrong hands in the first place. Does a list not place | :56:48. | :56:54. | |
more of an onus on the blog itself rather than the owner? -- dog. We | :56:55. | :57:03. | |
have an over breeding of staff as in the UK. The number of dogs in | :57:04. | :57:12. | |
circulation, we must look responsible ownership, preventing | :57:13. | :57:15. | |
certain individuals from being able to own one. Assessing the | :57:16. | :57:21. | |
environment. Ensuring that Brogan and others can be given that | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
protection that they need. There is the issue of the propensity and | :57:28. | :57:30. | |
ability of the dog to cause destruction. Paul mentions breeders, | :57:31. | :57:38. | |
that is a step above owners. You are keen on targeting them. There are | :57:39. | :57:47. | |
perhaps a lot of irresponsible ones. First of all, there are huge | :57:48. | :57:51. | |
difficulties in making a list of specific breeds to ban. The | :57:52. | :57:58. | |
Staffordshire was known for having a good temperament, but people muddle | :57:59. | :58:11. | |
them up with it pulls. -- pit bull. Any dog in the wrong hands can | :58:12. | :58:19. | |
become aggressive and attack. We already have regulation for | :58:20. | :58:26. | |
breeders, poppies, and kittens. I asked all the local authorities in | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
Scotland if anyone ever used the regulation, they answered, no. I'm | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
certainly not opposed to anything leading to responsible ownership. I | :58:36. | :58:41. | |
want to see how this legislation, proposed by the Scottish | :58:42. | :58:43. | |
government, would actually improve the situation. It will not solve | :58:44. | :58:52. | |
everything. It requires, right at the start, education of proposed | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
owners. You make that point also, Paul Martin. What is your opinion on | :58:58. | :59:08. | |
muzzling? I cannot meet with the family of Brogan and say that should | :59:09. | :59:14. | |
be ruled out. My overriding concern is protecting communities. We must | :59:15. | :59:21. | |
look at the experience of the legislation delivered. But I will | :59:22. | :59:26. | |
not look the family Brogan in the eye and say, I, as a politician, | :59:27. | :59:33. | |
will rule out muzzling. We should interrogate the opportunities | :59:34. | :59:37. | |
available to us and not rule it out. Thank you both very much. | :59:38. | :59:40. | |
You're watching Sunday Politics Scotland from the BBC. The time is | :59:41. | :59:44. | |
coming up to midday, let's cross to Graham Stuart for the latest news in | :59:45. | :59:49. | |
Reporting Scotland. Good afternoon. The Scottish | :59:50. | :59:52. | |
Conservative leader Ruth Davidson is due to tell her party conference | :59:53. | :59:55. | |
that she would scrap free prescriptions in order to pay for an | :59:56. | :00:07. | |
extra 1,000 midwives and nurses. In her keynote speech in Edinburgh | :00:08. | :00:10. | |
later, she's expected to say that the Scots would pay ?6.85. | :00:11. | :00:16. | |
The Scotch Whisky Association is calling on the Chancellor to scrap | :00:17. | :00:19. | |
planned increases in alcohol duty in his budget next week. At the moment, | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
79 % of the price of an average bottle of Scotch Whisky is made up | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
of duty and VAT. If the alcohol duty escalator were implemented again, | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
this would go up to 81%. The SWA, together with the Wine Spirit | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
Trade Association and the Taxpayers' Alliance, is asking for this to be | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
frozen. A man has been arrested following | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
the death of a man in the Easterhouse area of Glasgow. | :00:43. | :00:44. | |
29-year-old Ryan McNeil was discovered at a house in | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
Conisborough Road yesterday morning. A 27-year-old man is being held in | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
connection with the incident. And now the weather. | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
The words that spring to mind about the weather today, mild and breezy. | :01:00. | :01:09. | |
MacLeod will possibly thicken up and produce some rain and drizzle. -- | :01:10. | :01:17. | |
the cloud. Across eastern Scotland, a different story, good spells of | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
sunshine coming through. A fresh to strong westerly wind. Highs of 16 | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
Celsius possibly in the north-east. That's all for now, our next update | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
is at 6:05pm tonight. Now, back to Andrew. | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
Today tributes continue to appear for Tony Benn, who died on Friday at | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
the age of 88. A saint to the left, a bogeyman to the right, whatever | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
you think of him it's undisputed he had an extraordinary career. Joining | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
me now, a friend, a former colleague, the former Labour MP | :01:49. | :01:59. | |
George Galloway, who's in London. Thank you for coming to speak to us. | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
Was it the fight to renounce his title in the real making of the man? | :02:06. | :02:14. | |
It was one of the constitutional changes he pioneered. Nobody had | :02:15. | :02:22. | |
ever done it or imagine that it could be done. It took him three | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
years of courtroom appearances and he changed the British constitution. | :02:27. | :02:34. | |
Which he later did in 1975, when with other allies, Michael foot, but | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
mainly him, he forced the very first referendum in British politics. We | :02:41. | :02:51. | |
are rather used to referenda now, but then they were constitutional | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
novelty. He has been cold a whizz kid, as Minister for technology, but | :02:58. | :03:06. | |
what is interesting is that he saw it impact on working people and was | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
almost trying to mitigate the effects, to save jobs. He was very | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
interested in the fate of the Clyde shipbuilders. He intervened a very | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
decisively as the Minister for industry in the work in. He was for | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
ever in and out of the yard with Jimmy Reid and the other great | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
leaders on the River Clyde at that time. He defended motorcycle plants | :03:33. | :03:41. | |
in the Midlands. He had a whizz kid figure for technology in the 1960s, | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
by the 1970s, when he saw the impact on working class communities, he was | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
a decisive advocate, the bosses demanded he would be sacked by Mr | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
Wilson from that job, he duly was. He went on to energy where he | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
advocated public ownership of North Sea oil, just coming on stream. If | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
we had followed that advice, instead of in bankrupt, this country would | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
be booming. Following the electoral defeats in the 70s, he criticised | :04:15. | :04:22. | |
the past performance of the government. He would move to the | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
left. Would he not be more pragmatic to move the right? To get in with | :04:28. | :04:34. | |
the electorate? He was perhaps far more left-wing than working people. | :04:35. | :04:41. | |
If you analyse them, as now, the individual causes which he espoused, | :04:42. | :04:49. | |
the majority of issues he was onside with the public. Railways, post, | :04:50. | :04:57. | |
gas, electricity. He was against corruption and the undemocratic | :04:58. | :05:03. | |
nature of the European Union, is, overwhelmingly, are the majority of | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
the British people. He was famously against war. Marching and leading | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
marches. The majority of British public opinion was with him on that | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
also. This is one of the revisions of history that is being made after | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
his death, that he was charming and eloquent, but his views were crazy. | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
But actually they were views are shared by the majority. You mention | :05:30. | :05:40. | |
the war. Then the obituary in the Guardian, Brian said while not | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
making it clear, that included the war against Hitler. That was the -- | :05:47. | :05:54. | |
an interesting point. It is unfair, because Tony Benn fought in the war | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
against Hitler and lost his brother in the war against Hitler. He was | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
not a pacifist and he regarded the Second World War as our finest hour. | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
We saved the world for a time, alone, against fascist barbarism. He | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
was not a tree hugging peacenik in all circumstances, he was against | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
unjust wars, wars which had alternatives and in that, the vast | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
majority of people in Britain, then and now, regard that as entirely | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
correct. All political careers ended failure, that is a phrase, Labour | :06:33. | :06:40. | |
was not electoral -- because successful in elections, do you not | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
think he's should have spent time fighting that? The leaders that led | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
us to defeat were not Tony Benn, Michael foot led us to defeat, Neil | :06:51. | :06:58. | |
Kinnock as well -- Michael Foot. If we had had Tony Benn as leader, if | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
he had not been cheated of the deputy leadership by less than 1% of | :07:04. | :07:20. | |
the vote, it would have been better. It is a re-writing of history. If we | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
had had Tony Benn who was the best advocate we ever had of socialist | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
politics, we would have won one of those three elections. You first met | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
Tony Benn 40 years ago, what is your fondest memory? His kindliness. He | :07:37. | :07:44. | |
was one of the most generous and on rubble and dignified people I have | :07:45. | :07:52. | |
ever met. -- honourable. Thank you. Let's have a look at the stories | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
making the news today and the events coming up in the week ahead. Joining | :07:56. | :08:07. | |
me to talk about the events and what is coming up and stop Joining me to | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
talk about the week's events and what's coming up from Labour in | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
Perth is writer and broadcaster David Torrance and in the studio is | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
Natalie McGarry who stood as an SNP candidate in the Cowdenbeath by | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
election and is a Twitter personality... First of all to you | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
David at the Conservative conference, it seems to have been a | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
fairly upbeat conference, Ruth Davidson seems upbeat. Yes, of | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
course we will be hearing from her in about an hour's time as she | :08:40. | :08:46. | |
rounds off and untypically logged conference. It has been much busier | :08:47. | :08:56. | |
than previous years. Well over 1000 delegates. It has been broadly a | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
successful conference, the most important thing was the line in the | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
speech about Ruth Davison wanting more powers after a no vote. That | :09:08. | :09:14. | |
has been reinforced on subsequent days. It is very much the message | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
the party is trying to get across, this is not an opportunistic pursuit | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
of more powers to try and defeat the yes campaign in September, it is in | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
keeping with Conservative ideology and principles. Power is for a | :09:30. | :09:37. | |
purpose, to borrow a phrase from the Scottish Labour Party. What do you | :09:38. | :09:47. | |
make of that? I was a bit prize to. The commission was meant to deliver | :09:48. | :09:53. | |
the first draft of the powers -- surprised. I think that not having | :09:54. | :10:00. | |
the powers or the proposals announced before conference does not | :10:01. | :10:03. | |
give the Conservative Party much of a chance to have a look over them | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
and there is not going to be the same level of scrutiny within the | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
ranks. I think some of the thought within the party is that these would | :10:14. | :10:21. | |
be published in the next you weeks -- few weeks. I saw Ruth Davidson | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
earlier and she seemed to suggest that the commission would produce | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
the results in May. You are shaking your head. I am not sure it was ever | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
said that anything was emerging in the next few weeks, it has been the | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
line for quite a while that it would be published in May. Towards the end | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
of May, there are European elections on the 22nd and the official | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
referendum starts on the 29th and we will see the proposals in between | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
those states. The ball was in the firmly pro-union parties court, | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
Labour are announcing the results of their condition on Tuesday, how is | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
the yes campaign gauging this? It is dependent on what powers come | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
forward. The narrative seems to suggest that the Labour Party will | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
give a certain degree of power on welfare. Looking at opinion polls, | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
there is appetite for a lot more powers than seemed to be emerging | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
from the Labour Party proposals. I wait to see what they will be but | :11:28. | :11:34. | |
they do not seem to go far enough. I saw the Tories talking about raising | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
all the taxes, the Labour Party proposal seems to be about 40% of | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
taxes moving up. Whether or not that will have an impact on the narrative | :11:44. | :11:57. | |
going forward to the referendum, I do not know, I wait to see what they | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
are and I will not prejudge and say there will be sufficient. I want | :12:01. | :12:02. | |
independence. We will wait and see. Let us look to the past. We were | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
talking about Tony Benn hearing the tributes from George Galloway, what | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
did you make of that? George Galloway is obviously of a section | :12:12. | :12:18. | |
of the Labour Party as was, he is not there any more, who would hold | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
Tony Benn in high regard. Tony Benn was without doubt a substantial | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
figure, a fixture of my childhood and well beyond that. His diaries | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
are enormously entertaining as a minister in the 1960s, he was an | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
impressive figure with a firm legacy, but he was also a divisive | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
figure. If you go back to the early 1980s in particular, he was as much | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
resented by his own side as his political enemies on the right. The | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
important thing to remember about him is although he is seen as a | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
left-winger and a man of principle, he came to left-wing politics in the | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
Labour relatively late, I think it Denis Healey who said this. Until | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
the 1970s, he was on the right of the party. What did you make of Tony | :13:16. | :13:22. | |
Benn's legacy? In the last few weeks, we have lost a lot of people | :13:23. | :13:29. | |
from a socialist left perspective. Tony Benn was quite a progressive. | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
Some people forget that actually he pioneered being in the BBC, the | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
party political broadcast, of appealing to amass constituency. | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
Thank you very much. That brings us to the end of Sunday Politics | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
Scotland but I'm back in 45 minutes over on BBC2 for live coverage of | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
the leader's speech at the Scottish Conservative conference. But for | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
now, from all us on the programme, thanks for your company, bye. | :13:58. | :14:02. |