27/07/2014 Sunday Politics Scotland


27/07/2014

The latest political news, interviews and debate in Scotland.


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As the Commonwealth Nations come to Glasgow, we'll be asking how

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relevant the organisation is today - and whether it should be doing more

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to press the case for tolerance and freedom And criticism builds from

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The common wealth as a huge amount it can do to highlight, to condemn

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and to be one of the structures that can be brought to bear to make

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things better. And criticism opposition politicians over the use

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of armed police for regular patrols. Glasgow has certainly been shining

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these past few days as it welcomes But the Commonwealth is

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about more than that - And with many member states having

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a poor record on human rights and democracy, some feel it could

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use its so-called "soft power" But could promoting British values

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smack of "neo-colonialism"? builds from it started with a kiss.

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A quick peck but for some, it had much wider meaning. Here is to

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quality in Scotland! We know there are countries where it is illegal to

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be gay, 41 out of 53 Commonwealth states. So although that kiss was a

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fleeting moment, I think the symbolism of it was very powerful.

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It isn't the first time the Ann games have been used to make a or

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point. Less supple was the boycott in 1986, which saw 32 nations fail

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to take part because of sanctions on South Africa. So is more than a kiss

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necessary to promote change? Scotland has been working with human

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rights organisations on the ground and not one of them is called any

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kind of boycott. We don't think that tells. This is a real opportunity,

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hosting the Commonwealth Games, to have discussions with the

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dignitaries and people coming from those countries, and to let them see

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how we celebrate rights and tolerance in Scotland today. But

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tolerance varies widely across the Commonwealth. There is a section of

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the Charter but still the death penalty is in place in more than

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half of member states, and torture and imprisonment based on difference

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isn't unusual. Whilst words are one thing, action hasn't been

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forthcoming. The most recent example of that is that Sri Lanka it now has

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a shocking human rights record. The Commonwealth as a huge amount it can

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do to highlight and condemn and be one of the structures that can be

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brought to bear to promote the respect, the protection and

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safeguarding of human rights. The secretariat has twice suspended

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members it deemed undemocratic - first Nigeria and, most recently,

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Fiji after a military coup in 2006. It was reinstated earlier this year

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and is competing in Glasgow. Critics argue that sanctions prove that the

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Commonwealth is an outdated institution, a hangover from

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colonial days, imposing our ideals on member states. But for others, it

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can still promote positive change. There are forms of imperialism in

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the sense that we insist that other people do things in exactly the same

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way that we do them. But I don't think it is in any sense

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imperialistic to suggest that something like freedom, something

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like forms of democracy, our fundamental and international human

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rights. So far as any organisation, including the Commonwealth, stands

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up for those freedoms assault a termination, I don't think that's

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being imperial. Medal domination is the key focus at the moment but the

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debate about the Commonwealth's role as a modern institution fostering

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progress and equality is sure to continue long after the final gold

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has been won. I'm now joined in the studio

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by the Green MSP Patrick Harvie, who represents Glasgow,

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and by the Sunday Herald's foreign affairs editor David Pratt -

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who has, of course, travelled And, from Edinburgh,

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by the Labour MP Thomas Docherty who's on the executive committee

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of Westminster's Commonwealth Good morning. David, you've

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travelled around the Commonwealth extensively. What is your impression

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of the impact the organisation can have? You look at the Charter of the

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Commonwealth and it is promoting democracy, human rights and

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tolerance. Whenever I've travelled in Commonwealth countries, I've

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always found there is a real love and passion for the Commonwealth.

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It's viewed very favourably by most of the people that I've encountered.

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I understand the criticisms of it being some kind of talking shop and

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that its toothless and doesn't have any real power but I think that

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would be too greatly underestimated. It does have the soft power. It is a

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network of networks in that respect and things can be done. But clearly,

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it is very important, I think, now, that they ratcheted up the pressure

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in terms of human rights. It really is time that many of the member

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states in the Commonwealth began to pay more attention to that and had

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pressure put on them by other member states who've already attained that

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level of tolerance and values within the Commonwealth Charter. Patrick,

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it may be time to ratchet up the pressure. What is your impression of

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the Commonwealth? You might think that these nations are all

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progressive beacons of human rights but some of them are guilty of

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terrible abuses of human rights. Is the Charter just warm words? Yes,

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many members of the Commonwealth - many of the governments that are

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members of the Commonwealth - are guilty of serious human rights

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abuses and not giving effect to the aspirations of the Charter, whether

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that's in relation to the way we organised the Games in Glasgow or

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domestic politics in member states. But as a community of countries, as

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a forum, it serves a useful function in raising issues. It is only really

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going to move up the pace its member state governments are willing to

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support because it is composed of them. They make the decisions about

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its priorities. One of the opportunities that are created is

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the way that civil society can engage. I give you the example of

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LGBT and intersex rights and equality. Many of the countries in

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the Commonwealth, as he said in your package, do still criminalise our

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community, but so did Scotland only 35 years ago. If you are over 35,

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during your lifetime being gay was illegal in this country so it isn't

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about preaching but about identifying the journey we're all on

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and, in many ways, civil society organisations, like the one but have

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come together to set up Prior House on Albion Street in Glasgow, has a

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programme of more than 70 events in the games, highlighting LGBT I

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issues. But as a way of highlighting thing so we can work out what the

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priorities are, and how we can support other countries, not finger

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wiring and lecturing and saying we know all the answers, but working

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out how we can find some common ground. Thomas, do you agree with

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that? Working with civic society, not finger wiring, or do you believe

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we can get these governments to do more without giving the impression

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of being neocolonial? Patrick and David are absolutely right. What's

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important to remember is that it isn't a political union at an

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association of members, the 53 sovereign countries and the 20 or so

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dependencies and territories. Patrick is right when he says we

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have to move at the pace of those sovereign countries want to move

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that but that isn't to say we can't do a lot of work and in Westminster

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we have, on average, three delegations a week coming into

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Westminster - speakers of Parliament, parliamentarians, civil

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servants, government officials - coming to see how to improve their

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democratic process. There will be a delegation of monitors and observers

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going into Fiji in September from across the Commonwealth to be

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guaranteeing fair and free elections and if they are not free and fair,

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that will be reported back to the Commonwealth Parliamentary

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association and that will help to steer how governments respond to the

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situation in Fiji. David, hearing about that, how do we avoid the

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impression of being neocolonial in wanting these rights? The Gambia has

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left the Commonwealth thinking that it is an imperialistic organisation.

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It was interesting in your introductory package that you were

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talking about British values. Many Commonwealth countries I visited

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have already attained values which we would regard as British values in

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terms of democracy and equality and whatever. There are those, shall we

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call them, rogue states whose record is rather more chequered.

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Effectively, the nation of the British Commonwealth stopped in

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1949. I don't believe there is the degree of finger wagging that people

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suggest. I think it is this association and there is a parity, a

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level playing field, when it comes to diplomatic negotiations. There is

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not as much finger wagging as people would suggest. The Commonwealth has

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actually been very effective in some areas in terms of human rights in

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the past. I remember as an activist with the anti-apartheid movement, it

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was at the forefront in the fight against apartheid. And it has shown

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itself on many occasions, from Pakistan, you talk about Gambia,

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camera room. There are umpteen instances where the common wealth

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has shown itself to be very effective. -- Cameroon. These issues

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and discussions are important. We need to find ways of putting issues

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on the agenda that some of those governments don't want to address.

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One of the reasons why there is a backlash, and undermining of

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previous progress on equality for the LGBTeye communities around the

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world and in many common wealth countries is that the hard right

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religious community is in America have started shifting their

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resources. They recognise they are losing the fight at home in terms of

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prejudice and equality and a shifting their resources into

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developing countries will top how do we make sure that the pro-ecology

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movement goes global in the same way? -- pro-equality. What are the

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ways we can use to put that issue onto the agenda to force

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governments, as well as civil society in those countries, to face

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the reality of the harm that is being done on issues like human

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rights and the death penalty? You're talking about the internal

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mechanisms of the Commonwealth itself, in order to put those things

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on the agenda. It can only be done by the, was nations sitting around

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and talking about it and pressure being brought to bear by groups

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within the Commonwealth itself. Let's bring in Thomas. When you meet

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these parliamentary delegations, how far do you think we can go in

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promoting the values that we currently hold just now? One of the

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things that is quite interesting is that quite often there is some

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feedback from delegations who say they aren't sure why the UK is

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lecturing them about civil rights and human rights. Patrick makes a

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valid point about where we were just over 30 years ago so we've got to be

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very careful that this isn't seen as neocolonial patronising. But where

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we are making progress, for one example, Cameroon will host the next

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worldwide meeting of the Parliamentary association and

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Cameroon introduced a law not so long ago, frankly, anti-gay rights

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and the president of Cameroon has instructed his law officers not to

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prosecute anybody further under those laws because of the gentle

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pressure that has been applied by Commonwealth countries. That's not

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to say it won't stay on the statute books but by gentle pressure we are

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moving countries. But I do stress, it is a mechanism to allow

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governments and parliaments to do things. The Commonwealth itself is

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not an institution like the EU. It is a loose federation that brings

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people together. It can't be seen as the same type of political bloc of

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sanctions ordered the matter pressure that, say, NATO or the EU

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can do. -- or democratic pressure. Someone is quoted saying that the

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John Barrowman case will be quoted Someone is quoted saying that the

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by people who see it as the main powerhouse of the Empire and posing

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their influence on them and that he fears they might be a backlash.

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Could there be a backlash in some way? I think if governments took a

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very moral There's growing political concern at

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the visible presence of armed police on our streets - with opposition

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politicians questioning where and on our streets - with opposition

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he'll raise the issue at the convention of Scottish local

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authorities next month. He says this is a strategic policy change and not

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an operational decision for the chief constable. Other council

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leaders have expressed concerns. The justice secretary says armed

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officers have been a long-standing feature of policing and it is for

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the chief to make operational decisions about where and when to

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deploy resources. The justice secretary declined our

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request for an interview but I'm joined from Aberdeen by the SNP MSP

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Kevin Stewart, who sits on Holyrood's Justice subcommittee on

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policing, and here in the studio by Labour's justice spokesman Graeme

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Pearson, formerly the director-general of the Scottish

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crime and drug enforcement agency. Good morning. Thanks for joining me.

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Graham, you've heard the arguments from the police. You had a fair

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number of years in the police yourself and were an armed officer

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at one point during your service. What is the issue? There are a

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couple of issues. It's not been explained where we have a 39 year

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low in crime and we perceive the use of firearms dropping dramatically,

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why do we need to have officers patrolling the streets armed with an

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automatic handgun. And there is the decision-making process and

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analysing the need for change. This is a change in policy and the

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democratic process should have an input to that decision. From

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personal experience, what did you feel about carrying a handgun on the

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streets of Glasgow? It was during the time of major threat with the

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armed robberies, wages being stolen, so we knew what we were there to do

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but it was a complete nightmare to be in a public location whilst

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carrying a weapon. In those days it was a Smith and Wesson, not an

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automatic weapon as they are now. Kevin Stewart in Aberdeen, we have

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heard the argument there. What is the risk assessment here? Gun crime

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is falling, we don't have raids on cash vans, so why do we need armed

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police on the street? The McDonald's restaurant in Inverness, that was a

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famous case. He seems to have changed his tune. In 2006 he was

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supportive of round-the-clock armed coverage from his officers, so we

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have 2%, 275 out of 17,244 officers who are trained in firearms. There

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has been no change since the single force came into being. There has

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been no change in policy in terms of what happened previously in

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Strathclyde or Tayside and we had this similar situation prior to the

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single force. Highland itself changed policy after the inception

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of the single force. Let's put that point to you. You've changed your

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tune and it's good to have armed officers around the country because

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every service is the same to every man, woman and child in Scotland?

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Kevin has only got half the story. The officers I spoke about in 2006

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were following organised crime figures and we knew not only were

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they involving firearms, but were in danger of being murdered themselves.

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I had surveillance officers alongside them and we feared they

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might be caught in the crossfire. That was the challenge and the

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threat and I was happy -- I was happy that was analysed and the

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corporate decision was we thought we could get through that without

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harming the officers, so if that was the case then, what has changed?

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This is called an operational decision, but the fact we are

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sitting here discussing it makes it look like a strategic decision. Is

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this not one for the Cabinet Secretary to get involved with and

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speak to Sir Stephen Harris? The detractors of the single force said

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it would lead to political interference by the justice

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secretary all of the time. And now we see completely the opposite

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whereby the chief constable has made an operational decision on this and

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other matters, and the first thing the detractors say is that the

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justice secretary should not intervene. There are processes in

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place with the Scottish police authority and they look at the

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operational matters on a quarterly basis, and of course they report to

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the justice secretary. We, as a Parliament, also have the ability to

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scrutinise what is going on, but what we do not want to see is that

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politicisation that the detractors said they did not want. OK, we are

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hearing the reasons why it is operational, but if it is

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operational, does it come down cost saving exercise? You have cops on

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the beat attending routine, domestic incidents, whereas they have been

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sitting in response vehicle and are not attending? Is it cost-cutting? I

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don't think it is. I think it was a complete waste of resources having

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people sat in vehicles or offices waiting to recall. It is much better

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that they ate -- are out and about and keeping Scotland safe, and that

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is one the reasons why we have crime at a 30 year low, and long may it

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continue as far as I'm concerned. Finally, Graeme Pearson, we hear

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from the police it is about preventing the same kind of service

:22:19.:22:23.

across Scotland and incidents like Derek Birding Cumber -- Bird in

:22:24.:22:32.

Cumbria. Now we have armed response offices in rural locations. Is that

:22:33.:22:36.

not a good thing? We always had armed response officers on the

:22:37.:22:40.

street in vehicles with guns in locked cabinets. It took 60 seconds

:22:41.:22:44.

to get them out. We now have a photograph in the paper today of an

:22:45.:22:48.

officer with a automatic pistol in the middle of a supermarket doing

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his shopping which is not a Scotland we want in the 21st-century.

:22:55.:22:57.

Gentlemen, we have to leave it there. Thank you for joining us.

:22:58.:23:01.

We'll be looking at the Week Ahead in a moment but now it's time

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Good morning. It's been described as the biggest spectator weekend

:23:05.:23:12.

Thousands of people are in the city for Commonwealth Games events today.

:23:13.:23:19.

The marathon, started from Glasgow Green this morning with

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crowds lining the route, our Commonwealth Games reporter Lisa

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The city is having to fit in 390,000 extra people in town for the

:23:24.:23:42.

sporting action in town. Road closures in Glasgow over the

:23:43.:23:45.

marathon, 40,000 at Ibrox and the same for Hamdan when the athletics

:23:46.:23:50.

gets underway. -- Hamden Park. There has not been too much disruption so

:23:51.:23:53.

far, but it could be a different story when everybody had sown. --

:23:54.:23:57.

heads home. Police are treating the death

:23:58.:23:59.

of a man in Greenock as suspicious. The emergency services were called

:24:00.:24:02.

to reports of someone seriously injured in a common close in

:24:03.:24:04.

Tobago Street just before half past The man was pronounced dead

:24:05.:24:07.

at the scene. Police Scotland are conducting

:24:08.:24:10.

extensive enquiries and are keen to speak to anyone who

:24:11.:24:12.

was in the area at the time or has Now, looking to today's action at

:24:13.:24:16.

the Commonwealth Games the Scotland pairing of Paul Foster and Alex

:24:17.:24:23.

Marshall won 16-15 against England Scotland face South Africa

:24:24.:24:25.

in the quarter finals of the And in the pool, Ross Murdoch and

:24:26.:24:36.

Hannah Miley are both competing. Team Scotland's matched its

:24:37.:24:44.

best-ever total of 11 gold medals at the Commonwealth Games after

:24:45.:24:47.

only three days of competition . That was superb, and he wins the

:24:48.:24:58.

gold medal. Judo has accounted for six

:24:59.:25:04.

of those gold medals. After disappointment

:25:05.:25:06.

at the 2012 Olympics, flag bearer Euan Burton took victory

:25:07.:25:07.

in the under 100kg final. His wife Gemma Gibbons won

:25:08.:25:10.

a silver for England. The flag bearer thing was just a

:25:11.:25:20.

massive honour, and it's only when the tournament starts and you think

:25:21.:25:23.

you have led the team out and the rest of the team are producing some

:25:24.:25:26.

results, and you want to make sure you can do the same. I was nervous

:25:27.:25:30.

all-day, and maybe some of it was not my best, but thank goodness I

:25:31.:25:33.

got the job done. And now it's time for a look

:25:34.:25:35.

at your weather. A different feel to the day, feeling

:25:36.:25:46.

cool of the many of us and we will see a fair bit of cloud this

:25:47.:25:48.

afternoon and also some heavy showers. Quite a bit of rain across

:25:49.:25:53.

western and central Scotland at first, and heavy, thundery downpours

:25:54.:25:58.

over the East Highlands and towards the Borders. They will be slow

:25:59.:26:02.

moving. If you are caught in one, it could be with you for a time. A

:26:03.:26:05.

colder feel to the day with temperatures around 18 or 19

:26:06.:26:09.

Celsius. It will be quite different to the rest of the week so far.

:26:10.:26:13.

Over the past few weeks we've been hearing from a variety of voters

:26:14.:26:18.

as we count down towards the referendum.

:26:19.:26:22.

Last week, Mark Hogarth from Harris Tweed Hebrides explained why

:26:23.:26:24.

Today we'll hear from Pat Kane, the former lead singer of Hue

:26:25.:26:29.

and Cry and now a prominent campaigner for a Yes vote.

:26:30.:26:41.

Some places in Scotland has the past, present and future scrunched

:26:42.:26:47.

into one. Just there is the canal in the 19th century that took sugar and

:26:48.:26:51.

grain all the way up to the mills which are now beautiful designer

:26:52.:26:55.

flats. Right over here is something called the whiskey bond which used

:26:56.:27:00.

to be a whiskey bond but now is a cartel of creative 's, from

:27:01.:27:05.

sculptures, to 3-D manufacturers, eco-start-ups. So this place used to

:27:06.:27:14.

be the hub of the industrial revolution and has now become the

:27:15.:27:19.

hub of the information revolution. There are creative places like this

:27:20.:27:21.

all over the developed world, whether it is Barcelona, Berlin,

:27:22.:27:27.

Prague. You don't need independence to have a creative place, the

:27:28.:27:29.

independence the me has never been just about having the same as what

:27:30.:27:34.

everybody else does, it is a visionary thing, how do we do things

:27:35.:27:38.

different, better and more humanely. Glasgow, and too much of Scotland,

:27:39.:27:44.

is a place where the rich dominate the poor. Those with skills and

:27:45.:27:49.

assets live next to those with precious little. With the life

:27:50.:27:53.

expectancy of the affluent at 20 years more than people living next

:27:54.:27:57.

door to them. I'm not proud of this Scotland. I'm ashamed of that

:27:58.:28:04.

Scotland. The reason why artist, creatives and entrepreneurs support

:28:05.:28:07.

independence is that they know success does not just depend on

:28:08.:28:10.

talent and ambition. To have a creative society, you have do have a

:28:11.:28:14.

solid base, and that means secure housing, health and food and

:28:15.:28:19.

lifelong education. It means beautiful and welcoming public

:28:20.:28:24.

spaces and using the resources of the diverse enterprises. Progress

:28:25.:28:37.

does not depend on supercool smart elite pulling away from a struggling

:28:38.:28:40.

majority. The most creative act I can imagine is a yes vote, a

:28:41.:28:45.

thunderclap that brings about a fair, prosperous and dynamic

:28:46.:28:47.

country. Let's get started. Pat Kane there, and next week we'll

:28:48.:28:51.

have our fourth guest to explain why Now time for a look at the

:28:52.:28:54.

Week Ahead. I'm joined by the

:28:55.:29:00.

Chief Scottish Political Correspondent of The Herald,

:29:01.:29:02.

Robbie Dinwoodie, and from The Times we have Lindsay McIntosh, she's

:29:03.:29:05.

their Scottish Political Editor. Welcome to you both and thanks for

:29:06.:29:16.

coming in. Let's start with a story bubbling up in the Sunday Times.

:29:17.:29:20.

Strip rusher of the World Cup says Nick Clegg, the Deputy Prime

:29:21.:29:27.

Minister -- strip rusher. He's saying this is a good way to punish

:29:28.:29:34.

Russia for what has been happening after the downing of the Malaysian

:29:35.:29:36.

Airlines jet. What is your take on this? There have been a history of

:29:37.:29:41.

body kit -- boycotts which have had good or bad impacts. Most people

:29:42.:29:47.

will accept that boycotting events in South Africa did help to bring

:29:48.:29:53.

change their but you can ruin a World Cup or an Olympic Games and

:29:54.:29:57.

things go back to normal pretty quickly. I don't think there is a

:29:58.:30:03.

hard and fast rule that means using the threat of a boycott is a wake of

:30:04.:30:06.

enforcing the change you want to see. A heady mixture of sport and

:30:07.:30:11.

politics. How effective do you think that threat would be to Russia, that

:30:12.:30:15.

if the World Cup was withdrawn from them? Nick Clegg suggesting England

:30:16.:30:21.

would be a good place to hold it. I think it's definitely something we

:30:22.:30:24.

should talk about, the idea of stripping them from the World Cup.

:30:25.:30:29.

If we're talking about sanctions, and once we are starting to impose,

:30:30.:30:33.

it seems slightly ridiculous that we are talking about giving them this

:30:34.:30:36.

major sporting event which will bring a massive economic boost and

:30:37.:30:41.

global profile to Russia at a time when international events are as

:30:42.:30:47.

they are. The idea of them giving it to England is possibly getting a

:30:48.:30:53.

little bit to political, in terms of that, but certainly we should be

:30:54.:30:56.

talking about whether Russia should be hosting it. Nick Clegg is going

:30:57.:31:00.

further than David Cameron, but how realistic is the prospect? I imagine

:31:01.:31:10.

it would be difficult to get past. I don't think England are favourites

:31:11.:31:17.

of FIFA. FIFA will go their own way. I don't expect this to work.

:31:18.:31:23.

Would it just be for this particular incident over Ukraine? Would it be

:31:24.:31:30.

to do with gay rights? I suspect this one is not a gala. Staying on

:31:31.:31:37.

board -- sport and politics, we have the comment by Ian Bell that if

:31:38.:31:42.

sporting success influenced politics then the football team would have

:31:43.:31:45.

killed nationalism stone dead by now. We have got Glasgow shining in

:31:46.:31:51.

these past few days. Any impact from this on the referendum? I think some

:31:52.:31:59.

sensible points made in that column. We are growing up, we are going to

:32:00.:32:04.

vote and make decisions based on the head and the heart but not

:32:05.:32:06.

necessarily influenced by the Commonwealth Games. I think both

:32:07.:32:11.

sides could feel free to spin the Commonwealth Games and Scotland's

:32:12.:32:15.

success in them as proof of either vote being right. But I think that

:32:16.:32:21.

when it comes down to it, we're going to have a great Commonwealth

:32:22.:32:25.

Games, a great summer, we're going to enjoy it and then start thinking

:32:26.:32:29.

about the referendum and the serious arguments. Any influence on the

:32:30.:32:34.

referendum or is it more part of Scotland showing off itself rather

:32:35.:32:37.

than influencing people? I was in the velodrome yesterday and saw

:32:38.:32:41.

Scotland winning that gold. The atmosphere was fantastic. If there

:32:42.:32:45.

is some way of holding the referendum ten minutes after that it

:32:46.:32:49.

might influence the result. I don't think people will vote the way

:32:50.:32:53.

sporting events go. I do think that if the entire Commonwealth Games had

:32:54.:32:57.

turned into some kind of massive shambles, if the organisation had

:32:58.:33:01.

been badly run, if the Scottish team had flopped, if the early outbreak

:33:02.:33:05.

of food poisoning had run riot or something like that, it might have

:33:06.:33:13.

had a negative effect it going very well I doubt we'll make a massive

:33:14.:33:20.

difference to the polls. Alex Salmond was speaking about not

:33:21.:33:23.

speaking about the referendum campaign. Is it right that we're

:33:24.:33:27.

holding the referendum campaign for a couple of weeks? I think the

:33:28.:33:31.

public would quite like to see it halted for a couple of weeks and I

:33:32.:33:34.

think both campaigns would agree with that. I think there is a sense

:33:35.:33:38.

that they don't want to deploy too many resources. The Scottish public

:33:39.:33:43.

is much more interested in sports and those arguments aren't going to

:33:44.:33:49.

be remembered and then we get to the end of the Commonwealth Games,

:33:50.:33:52.

everyone throws the kitchen sink at it. Not the right time for politics?

:33:53.:33:57.

Alistair Darling made quite a strong speech yesterday. I don't think this

:33:58.:34:01.

campaign is stopping. I think doorsteps are being knocked as we

:34:02.:34:05.

speak. But the truth is that getting political space in the press at a

:34:06.:34:13.

time with this media is low. Talks begin on devolution for the whole of

:34:14.:34:19.

the UK, according to Scotland on Sunday. The impression that we get

:34:20.:34:24.

from the Conservatives is that if there is a no vote, if there is to

:34:25.:34:31.

be more derision, it will be looked at almost from a London basis,

:34:32.:34:34.

perhaps looking at the whole of the UK. Well, if you believe that... I'm

:34:35.:34:41.

not convinced. I think that's the argument. I think they want to say

:34:42.:34:43.

all these parties have signed up but I think things will go very quiet

:34:44.:34:48.

after September the 18th in the event of a no vote and the reason

:34:49.:34:52.

for that is a simple - England aren't really interested. They've

:34:53.:34:58.

said they want a super city across the North of England. I'm sure the

:34:59.:35:02.

North of England does feel there are problems with its relationship with

:35:03.:35:05.

the metropolis but they don't really have a hunger for political

:35:06.:35:11.

institutions to match that. What do you make of that, particularly if

:35:12.:35:16.

people feel this is evolution going to be looked at on a pan UK bases?

:35:17.:35:20.

Maybe Scotland doesn't seem to have any kind of special standing. I

:35:21.:35:25.

disagree. I think things will happen after September 18 if there is a no

:35:26.:35:30.

vote. I think the no parties in Scotland have played a good hand in

:35:31.:35:33.

terms of signing a joint agreement to say that something will happen in

:35:34.:35:38.

terms of more devolution after September the 18th and the thing

:35:39.:35:41.

that has shot down, to an extent, the argument that the yes campaign

:35:42.:35:44.

are making that there will be no change after September the 18th. At

:35:45.:35:49.

the Westminster has seen various hunger for more devolution and for

:35:50.:35:52.

different constitutional settlements and that they are going to have to

:35:53.:35:56.

take that on board in the event of a no vote. Likewise, the North of

:35:57.:36:00.

England and the other UK nations will push for a settlement. We have

:36:01.:36:03.

to leave it there. We are running out of time. Thank you both very

:36:04.:36:08.

much for joining me. That's all we have time for this

:36:09.:36:12.

week. We're back at the same time next week. From all of us on the

:36:13.:36:15.

Sunday Politics Scotland, thanks for being with us and do enjoy the rest

:36:16.:36:20.

of your Sunday afternoon. Bye-bye for now.

:36:21.:36:21.

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