07/09/2014 Sunday Politics Scotland


The latest political news, interviews and debate in Scotland.

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Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland.


The Chancellor, George Osborne, says the UK parties will shortly


announce a new package of powers for the Scottish Parliament to be


implemented if there is a "No" vote in the referendum.


It follows the publication of opinion polls showing


As Glasgow's Hydro plays host to a debate for young voters on Thursday,


three young members of Generation 2014 tell us what they think.


Well, this is a morning in which the cat is truly out stalking


Within the last couple of hours, the Chancellor of the Exchequer,


George Osborne, has announced that a new package of fiscal powers


for Scotland has been agreed by the Westminster parties and will be


unveiled - together with a timetable for its implementation -


His announcement comes as the political world is in uproar after


an opinion poll showed the "Yes" campaign in the referendum with


The "Yes" campaign is in a state of seventh heaven.


The Better Together campaign is scrabbling frantically for something


We'll be talking to the Scottish Secretary, Alistair Carmichael, and


The poll which is causing all the fuss - by YouGov for


The Sunday Times - indicates that a narrow majority of Scottish voters


Excluding undecided voters, it puts support for independence


Another poll published today by Panelbase for the Yes Scotland


campaign gives a "no" vote a narrow lead.


Joining me now is Jason Allardyce, the Scottish political editor


It has the potential to rock Britain, doesn't it? Now they are


two points ahead and we are seeing panic measured being desperately


dreamt up by Unionists to see if there is any way to turn this round.


As a political journalist, with your nose to the ground, what is your


sense? Is it that Better Together are panicking?


Yes because I think the campaign director has taken a lot of comfort


that although some have pointed to a momentum towards independence,


YouGov is the opinion poll company he has tried to calm the trips with


Andy Shill -- still shows a lead for Better Together. So with this result


today it has taken the sales out of the Better Together campaign.


But it is just one poll. It is within the margin of error so as


they themselves say, it shows a statistical dead heat. Apart from


that, there are if you are other questions about the poll, aren't


they? YouGov have had eight cap of 22 points about a month ago. So that


would be a swing of something like 25 points towards "yes". A swing


which does not have been picked up why any other pollsters. They


show... That is a seismic change. Can we really be confident it is


actually telling us what is happening out on the streets of


Scotland or is it telling us more about YouGov's methodology?


It isn't an exact science and there have been previous issues in other


elections with poles being far right. They have tried very hard to


analyse the data over the past week or so to make sure it is an accurate


measure. He looked back to make sure these are people whose clearly


indicated another preference months ago. There seems to be a shift. They


have gone back to check what people were saying. They said people said


months ago... Be important thing isn't so much their headline voting


intention figure but if you drill down into it to what people are


thinking about currency, the economy would be better or worse off,


whether they think we should be out of Europe. And something that we


should -- else we should mention is gender because there seems to be


evidence that, interestingly, although the panel piece for the


"Yes" campaign seems to show they are behind but William -- women seem


to be willing to vote for them. Yes and there is a survey of a


thousand women in Scotland. It is not scientific, just a snapshot of


opinion amongst months net members but that shows in favour of


independence to. Dash-mac a social website for mums.


Do you think there is something dramatic is enough at this late


stage? I suppose the change towards the temp one campaign has been


pretty sudden. If we are going towards something approaching Devo


Max is seems to be the right time. We've had three years to prepare for


this. The poll today shows that David Cameron has a trust rating of


-50. So there is an issue of whether people believe that these things can


be delivered. Another significant thing in today's poll is that, for


the first time, I believe, more are indicating support for independence


than more powers so maybe that should be pursued.


Thank you. I'm joined now by the Secretary of


State for Scotland, Alistair Carmichael, who is in our Orkney


studio. A couple of hours ago, George Osborne said a new plan of


action would be announced in the next few days and the three main


political parties at Westminster have agreed specific measures to be


implemented. There will be eight timetable for implementing them


which will take effect the minute there is a "no" vote. What is new?


This is something I've been speaking about for some time. You will recall


I made a speech in June making it clear that once there was a "no"


vote then we would convene a conference for Scotland. He didn't


mention that. He was talking about a plan of action. You will get to the


announcement when it comes and I will not give it to you here and


now, but I still believe that the consensus in Scotland, which is a


unifying consensus, is one that wants to see a Scottish parliament


with more powers but still within the United Kingdom. Remember, we've


already delivered more powers and they are still to come on stream. As


of next year, there will be powers for income tax, Stamp duty land tax


and borrowing powers and they are difficult which have been already


guaranteed. They are being implemented.


There is some confusion here. George Osborne didn't mention that there


will be a conference if there is a no vote. He said they've had talks


with the Lib Dems and Labour and we've agreed a plan of action for


more and new powers over the welfare state, over the economy and over


taxation and we've agreed a timetable to start implementing


them. You seem to be saying something different, that there will


be a conference to discuss all these things falls.


No, what I'm saying is, as has always been the case, there has to


be a process that involves other people apart from the political


parties. I will not give the exclusive of what you will hear


later in the week, but it is clear that there is a growing willingness


and there always has been, to deliver more powers because that is


where the consensus lies. It is quite clear from all the opinion


polls is that the question of independence is one which is


dividing Scotland very much. If you want to build a consensus that we


can all move behind and I would hope this will involve the Scottish


Nationalists ultimate beat, the way in which you will build consensus is


around more powers. That only becomes relevant if we get a no


vote. What we need to be talking about is what would be the reality


of an independent Scotland. Nationalists keep talking about this


as some great movement and moment but it is no such thing. It is an


irreversible decision. I am still confused. You seem to be saying


coming different from the Chancellor of the Exchequer. No, I have already


said I completely agree. Let me make a simple point, if you have agreed,


as Labour, the Lib Dems and the Conservatives, new proposals, given


the Scottish Conservatives are proposing to devolve all powers over


income tax and Scottish and Labour are not proposing that, what have


you agreed to do? That is where you keep inviting me


to give you the exclusive. But it is getting the -- a bit late for the


usual evasive answers, isn't it? With respect both ways here, this


will be made clear in a few days. I know you would love to have it now


but I cannot give it to you now. But, if they're now an agreement


amongst Labour, the Conservatives and the Lib Dems on precisely what


powers over income tax will be devolved to the Scottish


Parliament? Just tell me that there is a deal.


Now you are asking me instead of telling you about the packaged...


No, I'm not. I won't fall for it. But it's not a try. Tell me if there


is an agreement. Labour want to be hearing, not just about the RSS and


the polls and the rest of it, they will one to hear about the issues


and what it will mean for them... Tell me if there is an agreement.


What it will mean for them to have a ?6 billion deficit in Scotland and


its spending powers. You don't have to tell me what the agreement is but


just tell me if there is an agreement. Gordon, I don't see


what's so difficult here. You've already got the Chancellor 's words


on what has been agreed. You will get the detail in a few days time.


If I were Alex Salmond, and far be it for me to put words in his mouth


and he will appear shortly, I think you would say we only hear about


this sort of stuff when the "Yes" campaign is winning. The truth is


that my party has been outlining proposals for 18 months and the


Conservatives have had their proposals out for six months. We


have all been working on this. There is a large amount of consensus but


it only becomes relevant if we decide to remain part of the United


Kingdom. A United Kingdom that has delivered a great deal that is good


in Scotland and which offers as a single jobs market across the whole


of the UK, a leader on the world stage and you don't walk away from


that lightly. A couple of weeks ago you offered to


join Team Scotland if there is a yes vote. Given the way the polls are


going, shall I get Alex Salmond to give you a ring later? He has my


number and I take a call from him any time he once. I think it is


quite legitimate to ask him as well. We are talking seriously about more


powers. In the past, they've always walked away from that. If there is a


"no" votes, will they do as they've always done in in the past and walk


away from the difficult process of building consensus will they come to


the and talk and I think some -- that is something people would be


interested in listening to. Listening in the first -- in our


Inverness studio is the First Minister. What do you make of all


these promises that George Osborne and... I'm not sure Alistair


Carmichael is saying the same thing but he says he is. Alistair Darling


couldn't name one single job-creating power that was going to


come to the Scottish parliament if we made the mistake of voting "no".


Now we are expected to believe that, secret leak, after hundreds of


thousands of people have already voted, there is a radical new deal


on the constitution agreed by the Westminster parties. There is one in


the Constitution and its called independence. Are you saying you


don't believe they'll come up with anything? What we believe is that


they are not serious. This is a panicky, last-minute measure because


the "Yes" campaign is winning on the ground. Evidence is overwhelming.


Not just that Alistair Darling couldn't mention a single power last


meet .Mac week, but -- last week but he wasn't willing to confirm. Having


failed to scare the Scottish people, they next one to try to bribe is --


bribe us but they have no credibility left. We, as a


community, can secure independence a week on Thursday.


As a politician you would say to me, and you have said to me many times,


what would happen in the event of a no vote, you look on the bright


side, but you what also the First Minister of Scotland so you must


entertain the possibility that there might be a no vote and in that case,


if they do put together a package of new powers, aren't you as the


Scottish government going to be saying, couldn't we be involved in


this? In these circumstances, the Scottish Parliament has two vote on


that. That's the situation as it stands and I've made it clear that I


will work for Scotland and greater powers for Scotland under all


circumstances. But you are right to say, particularly now as the


campaign moves towards its climax and hundreds of thousands have


already voted, things on the ground and in the communities in Scotland


are moving firmly in the US direction. -- yes direction. It is


because of the lack of confidence in the Westminster elite. I negotiated


with George Osborne and David Cameron two years ago to get this


referendum. At that stage, they weren't even prepared to allow Devo


Max to go on the ballot paper. Now we're expected to believe that if


they get a no vote, the day after that they are going to introduce


what they weren't even prepared to allow on the ballot paper two years


ago. That's why these people have no credibility left and that's why I


believe people will vote to take matters into our hands a week on


Thursday by voting yes. You've mentioned the postal votes a couple


of times. Are you suggesting there is something democratically in


proper about the British Government coming up with new proposals after


the voting has already taken place? I suggesting it shows the chaos and


confusion and total disintegration of the no campaign because if you


were serious about something and wanted to do something for Scotland,


you would announce it before people voted as opposed after many people


have voted. This is a reaction to the movement on the ground and


particularly to the first opinion poll to show yes in the lead. It is


overwhelming. We don't have to go back to 1979 but it was the case


then that Alex Douglas Hume said that if you only trust the


Conservatives, they would introduce a better Scottish Parliament and


what we got was 18 years of Tory rule and Margaret Thatcher's


deindustrialisation of Scotland. Sir Alec Douglas who was a lot more


trustworthy than George Osborne will ever be. I presume we don't even


have to ask you how elated you buy this opinion poll. Are you still the


underdog? Yes, we've been the underdog throughout this campaign


and are fighting through that position. How can you be the


underdog when you are head in the polls? It is one pole and we haven't


relied on opinion polls throughout the campaign and we going to start


now. We are relying on persuading our fellow citizens that a radical


new constitutional deal is available to us by taking Scotland's future


into Scotland's hands. We have many more conversations and converts to


make. It is that positive message that is winning is this campaign and


that's why we'll continue to fight and campaign from that position. One


of the other things George Osborne said this morning - and he was very


emphatic - is that there would be no currency union if Scotland votes to


become independent. I know you think he's bluffing but particularly,


perhaps, if the polls are now moving in your direction, don't you have to


rethink a strategy of an currency when you're asking the Scottish


people to take it on trust from you that the Prime Minister, the


Chancellor of the Exchequer, the leaders of the labour and Lib Dem


parties, are all lying? Your word not mine but surely the development


this morning rather reinforces the bluffing position. Clearly they've


been bluffing this far on the constitution, the same way they only


said a few weeks ago that these three separate parties had three


separate proposals, weekend and said that though they were, and we're now


told that as a bluff and they have a different set of proposals which


will be announced later this week. I put it to the view is that if they


were prepared to bluff on the central issue of powers for the


Scottish Parliament, the same parties and people are able to bluff


on the currency. Their problem is that that bluff has been called


overwhelmingly by the Scottish people. But if you want to be the


government of an independent country, it's time you started


acting like one. Just on practical measures, if you have to set up a


central bank, it isn't going to come out of thin air. Surely you are


going to have to start planning right now to but the architecture in


place for whatever one of your plan Bs you want to have to implement


should there not be a currency union, and demonstrate that you are


serious. At architecture is in the fiscal commission's report,


including the setting up of... That's a report. You need to


actually set the thing up. It's also in the White Paper. You're asking


about architecture and I'm saying we've laid out the architecture, for


a conduct authority. We have the plans in place and these are what


we've laid out the Scottish people and unlike the no campaign


spiralling into self-destruction, we don't have to cobble something


together in the last few days because we've thought through that


and we've presented a positive case for Scotland's future in Scottish


hands. Thank you for joining us. Let's cross now for the news.


The Chancellor has confirmed the UK Government is to set out plans in


the next few days to give Scotland further powers, in the event


Speaking to the BBC's Andrew Marr, George Osborne said


the plans were being agreed by all three major parties in Westminster.


You will see in the next few days a plan of action to give more powers


to Scotland, more tax powers, more spending powers, more plans powers


the welfare state, and that will be put into effect - timetable for


delivering that will be put into effect - the moment there is a no


vote in the referendum. But the Deputy First Minister Nicola


Sturgeon said it was too late in the campaign for new measures to be


announced. There is no option of more powers short of independence on


the ballot paper. There is no guarantee whatsoever that of


Scotland votes no we will get a single additional power for the


Scottish Parliament. If people want the powers we need to protect our


public services, but at the health services, ensure we can create jobs


and grow our economy, the only way to get that is to vote for the


powers that a yes vote will deliver. Meanwhile, two polls released today


suggest the difference between the campaigns is narrowing, with one,


by YouGov, giving the "yes" vote The other shows a small majority in


favour of remaining part of the UK. Some


of Royal Mail's busiest delivery offices will open today, allowing


customers to collect parcels Delivery offices in Edinburgh,


Glasgow and Inverness are included It's just one of the changes being


made in an attempt to make Scotland kick off their campaign


to qualify for the 2016 European They're in Dortmund to take


on the world champions, Germany. Darren Fletcher will captain


the Scots for the first time Now here is Gillian for a look at


the weather. A nice afternoon for most of us as


high pressure dominates but we've got a weather front still plaguing


the north-east, which will continue to bring persistent and, at times,


heavy rain to the Northern Isles. Elsewhere across the country, winds


fairly light with the best of the sunshine in the South West.


That's all for now, I'll hand you back to Gordon in the studio.


Both campaigns have targeted 16 and 17-year-olds voting for


But what questions do young people feel have been left unanswered?


Well, I'm joined by a group from our Generation 2014 project - James,


who is an undecided voter, Amina, who is voting "yes", and Natalie,


You chose quite a good morning to come in! It's all happening. James,


you're undecided. What have you made a developer is overnight? They've


been really interesting. I personally don't go under the same


banner of undecided now. I'm unconvinced.


Both sides have good points and quite bad points that may be need to


be addressed more but I think this new surge in the poll saying that


the yes side is now in the lead has may made people's ears prick up a


bit and people might say, wait a minute... I'm furious. Would you be


influenced by the fact that there is a surge in the polls for one surge


or the other. If it's about arguments that you are unconvinced,


would you catch the bug? If there was a big move into yes, would you


think, I'll just go with that? I wouldn't make my own decision just


based on anybody else. I would pay attention to it, to people's


arguments why there has been a surge towards the yes side, so there may


have been developed that I haven't heard of yet, just by chance. So it


might have been that they've come up with a new argument that might


really interest me. I'm into the arts. There might be something about


job opportunities or training opportunities in the arts. That's


something that has been spoken about that much, but maybe that's the


reason why there has been such a surge. Natalie, what have you made


of it? I'm not sure I'm any clearer about what it is that George Osborne


and Alistair Carmichael are proposing between them but what is


your sense? You want to vote no but you busy with the think that the


campaign is in a bit of trouble. Not really. We're talking about a 2%


difference and it is in the two present margin of error, so I don't


think there should be that big a panic about the fact that it has


gone slightly in the yes campaign's favour. Maybe the better together


campaign just need to up their game a bit. But apart from that... Can


you think of what they could do to up their game because presumably


they're getting as many people out on the street as they can, like the


yes campaign. What should they do? Maybe they should try targeting


different people because I'm actually not... Maybe there has been


a lot not aware of anything that has been targeted at the 16 and


17-year-olds who are voting. There's quite a lot of us and it's worth


targeting us because a lot of us are still undecided, like James, or


unconvinced, and... Spit white he's created a whole new polling


category! Amina, you're going to vote yes. Presumably you like the


polls. Do you find anything attractive in what George Osborne or


Alistair Carmichael is saying? They're going to come with a plan


that should and give Scotland lots more powers so you don't have to


vote yes - you can vote no and things will change. I think on the


yes side, their plans for what would happen have not been outlined but


having more devolved powers such as Scotland staying in the union, they


are just promises to try and encourage... Obviously, the yes side


have gone up by lot now in all the recent polls and I think the people


on the side of the union are trying to give you all these things just to


put people away from the idea of being in an independent Scotland and


I don't think it's going to happen. You've told us which way you are all


inclining Ann Jones has come up with a new category and I'm curious now,


Amina, about whether you think the way in which this debate has been


conducted is actually meaningful to younger people. James has already


hinted at some things that he thinks should have been taught about which


haven't been. What is your sense of that? Like James, I'm involved in


traditional music and I'm interested in the arts and I don't think that's


been outlined so it could have been in the White Paper, stuff to do with


the arts and Gaelic music and culture which hasn't been talked


about in this debate very well. As far as targeting young people, the


Yes Scotland campaign have done a much better job than the Better


Together campaign. What is your sense, Natalie? You've told us you


want to vote no but do you think young people are being engaged by


the way in which the politicians are conducting the debate? Well, yes. I


know many people who have watched the big debating with Alex Salmond


and Alistair Darling... I'm sorry to interrupt you. We've had a slight


technical problem and we're at the end of the programme. Thanks for


joining us. We'll be back next week.


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