Browse content similar to 13/12/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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After suggestions that David Cameron was diluting his EU negotiation | :00:36. | :00:44. | |
demands, Downing Street insists he's still pushing for curbs to in-work | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
But is there any evidence that the rest of Europe is listening? | :00:48. | :00:56. | |
Jeremy Corbyn says Stop the War is "one of the most important | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
And why all the fuss that he went to its Christmas fundraiser? | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
Yvette Cooper - one-time Labour leadership contender - | :01:07. | :01:08. | |
says Britain should be doing more for refugees and migrants | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
Coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland: This letter tells you that | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
from now on a portion of your taxes will go to the Scottish government - | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
They'll be tweeting throughout the programme. | :01:22. | :01:48. | |
Downing Street insists that David Cameron will still push | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
for curbs on in-work benefits for EU migrants in the UK, | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
despite earlier briefings to the contrary. | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
The Prime Minister will head to a crucial summit later this week | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
to make his case for a reformed British relationship with the EU. | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
However, several newspapers, citing official guidance, | :02:06. | :02:07. | |
report that Mr Cameron has failed to convince other European leaders | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
and is already preparing a fallback to replace his original demand | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
for a four-year wait for in-work benefits. | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
The Sunday Times headline says "Prime Minister 'caves in' | :02:23. | :02:24. | |
The Sunday Telegraph describes it as "Cameron's climbdown | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
And the Independent on Sunday goes for the same metaphor, | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
describing it as "Cameron's big EU climbdown". | :02:37. | :02:43. | |
Let's speak now to Conservative MP Peter Lilley. | :02:44. | :02:45. | |
He was a Cabinet minister in the Conservative governments | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
of both Margaret Thatcher and John Major. | :02:49. | :02:55. | |
Welcome to the programme. The Prime Minister is thought by many of your | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
colleagues not to be asking for a lot, yet he might not even get what | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
he's asking for. Could he sell a watered-down deal to his party? It | :03:07. | :03:13. | |
is more a question of whether he can sell whatever comes out of it to the | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
country. There are lots of Labour MPs who want to see democratic | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
powers returned to this country from the European institutions. That's | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
the key issue as far as I'm concerned. He will clearly get some | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
things because a lot of this has been pre-negotiated, so he will get | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
something to say about removing the phrase ever closer union, something | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
to do with benefits, even if actually it is something we could do | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
anyway ourselves, like apply a four-year wait to British citizens | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
as well as foreigners. There will be something, the question is will it | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
be substantial? Will it include a return of powers to this country to | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
govern itself? What major powers is he asking to be repatriated? | :04:05. | :04:11. | |
Publicly, there doesn't seem to be anything on the list, unless some | :04:12. | :04:25. | |
change in relation to free movement of Labour is somewhere up his | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
sleeve. I do occasionally hear rumours that he will come back with | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
some genuine return of powers, and if he does I will be dancing on the | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
rooftops. We have no evidence that's even part of the negotiation. That | :04:39. | :04:46. | |
is certainly disappointing, it is rather a strange strategy not to ask | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
for the principal thing we want and yet still hope to get it. Because we | :04:51. | :04:57. | |
have, over a series of treaties which David Cameron and I voted | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
against, conceded a whole lot of powers to Europe beyond what is | :05:03. | :05:11. | |
necessary. The trading area requires some common lawmaking, but beyond | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
that we concede a lot of powers. We would like to start the process of | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
getting those powers back. If we cannot, we will be on a slippery | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
slope to creating a single state. The reason we are in the position we | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
are, having to renegotiate, is that the countries of the eurozone are on | :05:32. | :05:38. | |
the road to creating a single state. There's never been a currency | :05:39. | :05:45. | |
without a single state to run it. They are forced, because they have | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
created this currency, without a government to make it work. The | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
question is can we be outside that process, can removing the opposite | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
direction and get powers back, or will we be sucked on the slipstream? | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
If we cannot overcome the two doctrines of Europe that everybody | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
is heading in the same direction, albeit at different speeds, and | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
powers can only ever go to the central institutions and never come | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
back to the States, if we cannot break those two doctrines as far as | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
Britain is concerned, he will not really have achieved anything. I | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
understand all of that. A quick final question, if he comes back | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
with even less than he's asking for, would you vote to leave? If he | :06:33. | :06:40. | |
doesn't come back with some increase in power to ourselves, I feel for | :06:41. | :06:47. | |
the first time in my life I would be voting to leave. I voted to stay in | :06:48. | :06:54. | |
1975 but I would be voting to leave in those circumstances. | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
Tom, it is turning into a real mess for the Government, is it not? A | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
huge mess. There was an exposer yesterday, of the 11pm call every | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
night, coordinated with the Downing Street switchboard which the | :07:09. | :07:18. | |
ministers have got to tune into. I can only imagine the horror that | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
went on last night during the call, which still happens, over the | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
headlines this morning. I think what's happened here is the | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
four-year ban on migrants' benefit is dead. You think he's just not | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
going to get it? It died I would say at least a month ago in the Chatham | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
House speech. He said so in his speech saying, here is what I want, | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
but by the way I will also accept what you choose to offer me. The | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
papers reported the next day that it was dead in the water, so we are | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
talking about the choreographing, how it happens and whether the Prime | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
Minister himself withdraws it. Or somebody else might put something | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
else on the table, doing the PM a favour, to bail him out and say if | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
you don't want this how about that. Peter Lilley And, when I said can | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
you sell this to your backbenchers comic said it is a problem for the | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
other parties too but it is overwhelmingly a problem for the | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
Conservatives and if he cannot achieve what is being asked for, I | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
would suggest half the Parliamentary party in my not go with him on this. | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
It is not the climb-down I would query, but the "big". He needed one | :08:35. | :08:44. | |
totemic issue that looked like he was doing something about | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
immigration. He couldn't look at the free movement of people or any kind | :08:49. | :08:56. | |
of free movement cap. He couldn't tell nostrils any major power he is | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
asking to be repatriated. It will be hard to make it look like he has | :09:02. | :09:08. | |
come back with something so that people can say OK, that has changed | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
my mind. If he gets one in February, can he have the referendum in June? | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
I understand the Electoral Commission doesn't like the idea of | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
a referendum that would overlap with the elections in May, and the risk | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
in September is that we will have another summer migrant crisis and | :09:29. | :09:30. | |
that would be a terrible atmosphere for those who want to stay in the | :09:31. | :09:37. | |
European Union. There are a lot of hurdles, first you have got to get a | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
deal in February that looks like a success. The reason they have done | :09:42. | :09:44. | |
what they've done overnight is because it has been dragged down | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
into a legal quagmire and David Cameron has got to have a | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
conversation with his counterparts to set that entire renegotiation | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
back on the right track. I know that some people in Brussels as saying he | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
cannot get a deal by February, we will never get a deal, and if it | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
slips into 2017 you won't get a deal then either. In June | :10:05. | :10:18. | |
there is this tiny window because -- where you could practically hold a | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
vote. But then as you say you've got the migrant crisis, which pops up | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
over the summer. I'm told that dealing with the flow of migration | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
from Turkey will make an enormous difference to the optics of how | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
Europe is seen to be able to deal with the migration crisis. Even | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
though that doesn't have a huge impact on UK migration from the rest | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
of Europe, David Cameron's renegotiation depends on something | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
truly out of his control. So you're telling me it depends on the Turks | :10:48. | :10:49. | |
now. On Friday night Jeremy Corbyn met up | :10:50. | :10:51. | |
with some old friends Nothing unusual in that, | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
you might think, but this was a fundraising do | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
for Stop The War Coalition, the anti-war protest group that | :10:58. | :10:59. | |
Mr Corbyn chaired until his election And, in case you hadn't noticed, | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
it caused a bit of a stir. It was the biggest mass | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
demonstration in British history. The group that organised it, | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
the Stop The War Coalition, had been founded a year or so before | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
following the 9/11 attacks and George Bush's declaration | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
of war on terror. Around a million people marched | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
as Tony Blair prepared to send Among the speakers, | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
a backbench Labour MP. Thousands more deaths in Iraq | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
will not make things right, it will set off a spiral | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
of conflict, of hate, One of the reasons for its success, | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
I've always thought, is that everyone was united | :11:43. | :11:49. | |
around one single issue. We never got bogged down | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
in our political analyses of what we thought about | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
Saddam Hussein or what we thought about this dictator or that, | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
or how we thought the political We weren't there to offer solutions | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
to other people's problems and tell them how we thought it should be, | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
we were there to stop our government taking what we considered to be | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
a very bad and negative step. But despite the broad support, | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
the inner leadership has largely Stop The War's founding member | :12:23. | :12:32. | |
and convener Lindsey German was a member of the Socialist | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
Workers Party for over 30 years, Her partner, John Rees, | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
who's also co-founder of Stop The War and was a leading | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
figure in the SWP, he also He sits on the editorial board | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
of Counterfire, a political organisation created | :12:47. | :12:49. | |
after that SWP split. He also helped start up The People's | :12:50. | :12:51. | |
Assembly Against Austerity, Which has been organising | :12:52. | :12:53. | |
protests since 2013. He's often sparked controversy, | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
reportedly writing in 2006, for example, that socialists should | :12:58. | :12:59. | |
unconditionally stand with the oppressed | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
against the oppressor, even if the people who run | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
the oppressed country are undemocratic and persecute | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
minorities, like Saddam Hussein. Andrew Murray was the Stop The War | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
coalition chairman from He's a member of the Communist Party | :13:14. | :13:15. | |
and chief of staff of In 2014 he spoke at the launch event | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
of a campaign called Solidarity With The Antifascist | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
Resistance In Ukraine, which supports anti-government | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
rebels there. He took back the chairmanship again | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
in September this year, taking over from Jeremy Corbyn, | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
who'd held the post from 2011 As well as its elected officers, | :13:36. | :13:37. | |
Stop The War has patrons including Labour MP Diane Abbott, | :13:38. | :13:54. | |
George Galloway, the writer Tariq Ali, and Kamal Majid, | :13:55. | :13:57. | |
a founding member of the Stalin Society, formed in 1991 | :13:58. | :13:59. | |
to defend Stalin and his work. The 2003 protest against the Iraq | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
war, which took place here in Hyde Park, was the high point | :14:03. | :14:04. | |
of Stop The War. The human rights activist | :14:05. | :14:07. | |
Peter Tatchell never played an official role at Stop The War, | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
though he has participated But this week he took a very public | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
step back and claimed the organisation has | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
lost its moral compass. The shortcomings in Stop The War | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
are driven by basically about half a dozen people at the top, | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
and those views increasingly are not shared by many of their long-time | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
grass-roots supporters like me People are turned off | :14:32. | :14:33. | |
by the sectarianism, by the selective opposition to war, | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
and by the failure to speak out against human rights abuses | :14:40. | :14:42. | |
by regimes that happen to be on the receiving end of US | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
and British military intervention. Critics like Tatchell have accused | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
Stop The War of trying to silence those whose views don't | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
fit their own. Nothing will be achieved by trying | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
to shout down speakers! This video shows a Stop The War | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
official clashing with a protester during a rally about western | :15:04. | :15:06. | |
policy in Iran in 2012, This meeting last month caused | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
controversy when Syrians in the audience said | :15:10. | :15:23. | |
they weren't allowed to speak. There is one reason there is no | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
Syrian from this room on the platform and that's | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
because they support intervention, and the meeting is | :15:32. | :15:33. | |
against intervention. APPLAUSE What's really disturbing | :15:34. | :15:35. | |
is the way in which Diane Abbott closed down the meeting rather | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
than allow Syrian Democratic left wing and civil society | :15:39. | :15:40. | |
activists to speak. It's given the impression | :15:41. | :15:47. | |
that she shares the questionable politics of Stop The War | :15:48. | :15:49. | |
on the issue of Syria. But Stop The War insists a Syrian | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
contributor did ask a question from the floor of that meeting | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
and have rubbished the suggestion they support those who Western | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
governments oppose. Obviously, you will have seen | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
in recent days Stop The War explaining that they were opposed | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
to Russian intervention in Syria as well as British intervention, | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
so they are evenhanded. The reason I think people may think | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
that is because we are a campaign based in Britain and our campaigning | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
is obviously overwhelmingly orientated towards changing our own | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
Government's policy. Welcome to Islington | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
in north London. In there is Jeremy Corbyn's | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
constituency office. This building is also home | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
to the Stop The War coalition, but it is the figurative proximity | :16:37. | :16:39. | |
rather than the literal one that I spoke to a number of Labour MPs | :16:40. | :16:42. | |
who voted against air One told me that he wasn't so much | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
worried about Stop The War and the influence it may have | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
on Jeremy Corbyn and policy, but more that Jeremy Corbyn | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
simply shares their views. There's dissent at | :16:57. | :16:59. | |
the grass roots too. Stop The War is not | :17:00. | :17:08. | |
a Labour Party organisation. and probably continue | :17:09. | :17:18. | |
to oppose the Labour Party. I don't believe they hold | :17:19. | :17:19. | |
to the values of solidarity, We also spoke to a number of Labour | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
MPs who were relaxed We're joined now from Leeds | :17:26. | :17:41. | |
by the Labour MP, Richard Burgon. Morning, Andrew. The Communist Party | :17:42. | :17:59. | |
of Britain, which has prominent members in stop the war, says | :18:00. | :18:01. | |
attacks on stop the war are, quote, members in stop the war, says | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
a systemic and vicious propaganda oi offensive designed to obscure | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
British imperialism's agenda in conducting the bombing campaign in | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
British imperialism's agenda in Syria. Do you agree with that? Well, | :18:14. | :18:14. | |
first of all I think I'm in a good Syria. Do you agree with that? Well, | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
position to answer some of these questions, pause I've only ever been | :18:19. | :18:20. | |
a member of the Labour Party. questions, pause I've only ever been | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
joined when I was 15. What I really want to focus on is not the members | :18:26. | :18:28. | |
of small political parties who want to focus on is not the members | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
be involved in Stop The War Coalition, but the tens of | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
thousands, in fact they've got an e-mail list of 150,000 people, many | :18:39. | :18:40. | |
of whom are not in e-mail list of 150,000 people, many | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
party, many of whom are in the Labour Party. The chairman who has | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
taken over from Mr Corbyn is a member of the Communist Party of | :18:48. | :18:50. | |
Britain, so what's the answer to my question? I think the attacks on | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
stop the war are proxy attacks on Jeremy Corbyn. We haven't had that | :18:56. | :19:03. | |
previously. When Charles Kennedy was speaking against the Iraq war, which | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
previously. When Charles Kennedy was 2 million people attended, Charles | :19:10. | :19:11. | |
Kennedy wasn't attacked for that, and rightly so. But he wasn't a | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
member of Stop The War Coalition. He spoke on the stop the war platform. | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
But he wasn't a member? I'm not a member, there's a really important | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
point here, it is right that people in democratic society express their | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
views to MPs, march against things they think are incorrect. I do think | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
the line and the leadership of the Stop The War Coalition hasn't | :19:37. | :19:39. | |
changed in the 14 years since it was founded. What has changed is that | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
Jeremy Corbyn has become leader of the Labour Party, so people in the | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
media and elsewhere who wish to attack Jeremy Corbyn are using stop | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
the war to do so. Of course it is not just the media, is it? It is not | :19:51. | :19:58. | |
even the media. Labour MPses, Tristram Hunt, Stella Creasy, many | :19:59. | :20:08. | |
more, they've attacked Stop the War Coalition and Jeremy Corbyn's | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
support for it. I think the majority of Labour members agreed with Jeremy | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
Corbyn on his analysis on whether or not we should agree to David | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
Cameron's proposal to bomb Syria. But what do you say to their | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
criticism of Mr Corbyn's continued association with Stop the War | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
Coalition? I think they are mistaken. I think that stop the war, | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
we've got to look at how stop the war has involved people from right | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
across the political spectrum. When I was on that historical march in | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
2003, there wasn't just the Lib Dem leader speaking but other people I | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
spoke to, Conservative voters, so it is not just 57 varieties of | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
Trotskyite groups that are involved. If it were the case it were merelily | :20:50. | :20:56. | |
people on the ultraleft you wouldn't have 150,000 people involved or on | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
the e-mail list. Who is not either a cop thirst, a Trotskyite or a | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
Stalinist? Well, there are plenty of trade unions involved in the lip... | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
Among the leadership, the people who lead this, whose names are | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
associated with it, who doesn't Paul into that small hard left category? | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
Well, it is a coalition, and that's the point of it. So give me another | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
name that doesn't fall into that. Well, I wouldn't even know the full | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
list of people on the board of stop the war, but what I do know is that | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
there are people from trade unions supporting it, trade unions | :21:33. | :21:34. | |
supporting it, probably in terms of the membership of Stop the War | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
Coalition, the biggest composite of that are Labour Party members. But I | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
do think this is a distraction of the democratic issue. We can't say | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
that in this country being a member of a Stop the War Coalition | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
campaign, campaigning against military interventions that were | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
proven to be disastrous in Iraq and Libya is wrong. It is part of an | :21:55. | :22:01. | |
open democratic process. People shouldn't be demonised for being | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
part of it, or Jeremy Corbyn. I'm not doing that, what I'm trying to | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
do is find out what stop the war really stands for and whether it is | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
right to Jeremy Corbyn and other Labour people should be associated | :22:15. | :22:21. | |
with it. They are had an article titled, Sociopaths United. The | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
United States, Britain and their allies are no less sociopathic than | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
the enemies they propose to hunt down. So British security forces are | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
on a par with the beheaders, do you agree with that? I certainly don't | :22:36. | :22:37. | |
agree with that. I think there've agree with that? I certainly don't | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
been things published on blogs on the stop the war website which are | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
essential wrong, which I wouldn't agree with and the vast majority of | :22:48. | :22:50. | |
people who are members of the Stop the War Coalition wouldn't agree | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
with. I was reading in the paper this morning that the management of | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
the website of the stop the war has changed. If that shows that they are | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
going to be more careful to ensure that the content of the website on | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
every occasion mirrorst or reflects, sorry, the view of the leadership of | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
the Stop the War Coalition, then that's a welcome move. Well, it is | :23:13. | :23:22. | |
certainly, if it is such a splendid organisation, it has to delete lots | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
of articles it has published. It blamed the Paris attacks on French | :23:28. | :23:37. | |
policy, claimed that the threat to the Yazidis was largely mythical, in | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
fact force. And published a poem that quotes a well known anti-Semite | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
and Holocaust denier. All of that it has had to take down. Does that | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
sound like a respectable organisation that the Labour Party | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
should be associated with? Well, the views that you've uncovered aren't | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
views that I or members of the Stop the War Coalition would agree with. | :23:59. | :24:05. | |
But the big picture is this. In a coalition there are always sorts of | :24:06. | :24:08. | |
small numbers of individuals who come out with unacceptable views. | :24:09. | :24:11. | |
But the fact is I'm interested in the democratic point, in the 2 | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
million people that marched on 15th February 2003, in the thousands that | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
protested against the intervention in Libya and intense the | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
intervention in Syria. I'm not a pacifist but I think that the truth | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
is that the Stop the War Coalition and the ordinary people from vicars | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
to pensioners who marched against the war in Iraq, who marched against | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
the intervention in Libya and have demonstrated against the | :24:37. | :24:38. | |
intervention in Syria, they've got it right. Many of the people | :24:39. | :24:41. | |
attacking Jeremy Corbyn and many of the people attacking the Stop the | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
War Coalition have got it completely wrong. It is a topsy-turvy world we | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
are in when attending Stop the War Coalition events is controversial. | :24:52. | :24:53. | |
We are still pretending that Tony Blair and others got it right in | :24:54. | :25:00. | |
Iraq. We haven't got much time Mr Burgon. Mr Corbyn stuck to his guns | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
and went to the fundraiser. His spin doctor says the Labour Party is now | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
slowly co hearing round Mr Corbyn's views, across a range of issues. Do | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
you agree with that? I do. As I minced earlier, Jeremy Corbyn didn't | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
instruct or order Labour MPs to vote against David Cameron's plan to bomb | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
Syria. He gave them a free vote, and that that was the right thing to do. | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
By a ratio of 2 to 1 Labour MPs agreed with Jeremy Corbyn's | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
analysis, and by 2 to 1 members of the Shadow Cabinet agreed with Mr | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
Corbyn. But on working tax credits, police cuts, issues such as ech | :25:43. | :25:50. | |
attacking George Osborne's failed cuts and privatisationings the vast, | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
of Labour MPs and members, and a lot of the public agree with him. | :25:56. | :26:02. | |
Richard Burgon thank you for joining us and for persevering with the | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
earpiece. I'm glad you stalk with it. Thank you. Take care. Bye. | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
Yvette Cooper came third in the contest to become | :26:13. | :26:14. | |
Her campaign only really came to life back in early September, | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
when she became the first front rank UK politician to call for Britain | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
to take in 10,000 refugees from the Syrian war. | :26:22. | :26:23. | |
Now, in her new role as Chair of Labour's Refugees Taskforce, | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
she's been on a fact-finding visit to the Jungle refugee | :26:27. | :26:28. | |
6,000 people are currently living in what, in most generous terms, | :26:29. | :26:43. | |
Yvette Cooper, a former Shadow Home Secretary, | :26:44. | :26:54. | |
a Labour leadership contender, argued over the summer Britain | :26:55. | :26:57. | |
should take more Syrian asylum seekers than | :26:58. | :26:59. | |
Now a backbencher, she is returned as a guest of citizens UK not | :27:00. | :27:06. | |
to argue we should fling open the doors but that the jungle | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
was a problem nobody has tried to find a solution to. | :27:11. | :27:13. | |
Why do we not have UNHCR here doing proper assessments of everybody? | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
And therefore actually they need to go back through | :27:18. | :27:26. | |
You've got to have a proper process to assess people's refugee status | :27:27. | :27:33. | |
and at the moment that's not happening. | :27:34. | :27:40. | |
That's the real big tragedy of here, the people have got stuck | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
here in these awful conditions and there's no | :27:44. | :27:45. | |
Some would call it hell, that's a little hyperbolic, | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
It's really purgatory, since there's a real sense nobody | :27:50. | :27:57. | |
is going anywhere, unless to climb on board a lorry and illegally | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
And a camp unsuited to summer is preparing for a winter it's | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
There's an argument which says, if you help refugees, | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
then somehow that will create a crisis. | :28:11. | :28:12. | |
No, the crisis is here and now, the crisis is happening. | :28:13. | :28:32. | |
You've got to have a basic humanitarian aid in place. | :28:33. | :28:40. | |
At the Medecins Sans Frontieres clinic on-site, the issue | :28:41. | :28:42. | |
of the conditions and winter is a problem itself. | :28:43. | :28:49. | |
The problem when we see the camp, it's very cold, the hygiene | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
And what happens, the condition...the simple | :28:53. | :29:02. | |
flu passes sometimes in the bronchal...and that's it. | :29:03. | :29:10. | |
There are many women and children - yes, they are outnumbered - | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
but they're housed in two sections of the camp we're not allowed | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
to film in, though clearly some choose to live in other parts | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
of the camp and walk the roads around. | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
in the UK that is worrying some of the volunteers. | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
So, there's a ten-year-old boy separated from his family and just | :29:31. | :29:32. | |
There are eight-year-olds, nine-year-olds, ten-year-olds | :29:33. | :29:41. | |
with family in the UK desperate to look after them, | :29:42. | :29:43. | |
and come here to visit them and bring them things | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
Do you suspect that people back home will see this and their natural | :29:47. | :29:56. | |
humanity will say, "this is awful, that looks really dreadful, | :29:57. | :29:58. | |
we still don't want lots of them to come"? | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
The problem is you look around this and you think, | :30:02. | :30:11. | |
how is this northern Europe, how can this be just a few miles | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
How can this be what is happening in France? | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
Yvette Cooper would be much happier if those minors were taken | :30:19. | :30:20. | |
in with their families, and seems to be singing from a song | :30:21. | :30:23. | |
sheet that says whether we take more refugees, fewer or none, | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
it may well be a pressing question, but that the jungle in Calais | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
Welcome back to the Sunday Politics. Should adults from this can be | :30:31. | :30:44. | |
allowed into Britain? It depends on their circumstances. Most of them | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
should be playing in France for asylum and that I think is what you | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
would expect to happen. Some of them may not be refugees, some of them | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
may have safe homes to go to and should do so. Clearly there's a lot | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
of people there who have fled Syria, Afghanistan, who we know are fleeing | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
conflict and persecution. There's a question about the children. We saw | :31:11. | :31:17. | |
unaccompanied children. There are people traffickers, some cases where | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
aid workers said they had families in Britain we were trying to reach. | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
For example I spoke to a 15-year-old whose brother, his nearest relative | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
is in Britain and he wants to join him. That's why he is in Calais. | :31:33. | :31:39. | |
Should we let them in? We should have a process for him to be able to | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
apply. We should be providing that sanctuary. I understand the children | :31:45. | :31:52. | |
issue but I'm still not quite clear what your attitude is towards the | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
adults there. Although a lot of people in this camp may have started | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
as refugees, they are now in France. They are not in immediate danger of | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
their lives so they now want to come to the UK because they think | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
economic prospects are better here than in France. That makes their | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
role economic migrants now. That's not the reality. They have no safe | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
home at the moment, and I agree they should be playing right now and they | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
should be assessed where they are. The French authorities should be | :32:27. | :32:33. | |
doing a full assessment. So why are they not in there? Good question. | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
Why are we leaving people in such awful conditions? If the French | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
authorities cannot, we should get the UNHCR to come in and do a full | :32:44. | :32:49. | |
assessment. There will also be people, I spoke for example to a | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
single mother with two small children who had left Syria when her | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
husband was killed in an Assad jail. She was trying to reach her father | :33:00. | :33:06. | |
and brother, also in Britain. There should be a process for her to apply | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
for sanctuary in Britain. If you had a fair system to apply, you might | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
prevent people coming to Calais in the first place. Should we set up an | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
asylum seeking vetting operation in Calais ourselves? We have a system | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
the Government set up under pressure to take refugees from the camps in | :33:28. | :33:34. | |
Syria. I'm talking about the camps in Calais. I agree but I'm saying we | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
should prevent people coming to Calais in the first place. Once | :33:39. | :33:46. | |
people have got to Calais, I think there is a case particularly for | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
those children... We understand the children but I'm asking about adults | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
because it is hard to know what your policy is on this. Should we start | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
to say some of them are asylum seekers, the French are not doing | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
their jobs properly, we will take them in once they go | :34:06. | :34:27. | |
This refugees. Britain is taking photos and refugees a year. We | :34:28. | :34:38. | |
should stop people coming and injured a sports in the 1st place. | :34:39. | :34:49. | |
--4000 refugees. If we do not solve it it will get worse. By giving | :34:50. | :34:59. | |
proper status to people here you will encourage more people to come. | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
People will come anyway. The crisis is going to happen. There is viewed | :35:05. | :35:10. | |
the government took with it were arguing we should not have search | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
and rescue in the Mediterranean because that would force other | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
people to come. I think that as a model. People have come. They are | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
travelling across Europe. What you have to do is have a system that | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
supports them. It is still not clear. Let's take over the million | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
migrants who have made it into the EU this year. The German government, | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
although taking most itself, try to spread the burden through member | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
states. Should we volunteer quarter quest Mark at the beginning I said | :35:44. | :35:51. | |
we should take 10,000 people. Why? The Germans are taking a lot more | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
and the Swedish are taking a lot more, why only 10,000? That meant we | :35:55. | :36:05. | |
would be talking about 10 families for every city or county across the | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
country and I think the best way to do this is to work with local | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
councils and communities and faith groups across the country and seeing | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
how many refugees do you think you can support in each area? In Germany | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
the labour market and housing are in different situations. They have a | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
different demographic. 10,000 out of a million would be the British | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
response? I think that would be a good thing to do. All countries will | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
have to work together on this and is not a simple answer either so it is | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
not just about what you do in terms of the number of refugees you give | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
sanctuary to but also what you do to prevent people travelling and that | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
is why you think we should be be uniting refugees by smack families. | :36:49. | :36:51. | |
We have not talked about in the thing that you on that report is | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
people living in terrible conditions with France and Britain being 2 of | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
the most powerful countries in the world, you would've thought it is | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
not beyond wit of those 2 countries to make sure there is proper | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
humanitarian relief and sanitation and proper heating for people who | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
will suffer not just from scabies but also terrible conditions in | :37:16. | :37:16. | |
those camps. A colleague of yours said that your | :37:17. | :37:39. | |
party is moving firmly towards the direction of Jeremy Corbyn. Do you | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
agree? The challenge for the Labour Party is that we have an internal | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
focus looking inwards as ourselves. We need to look out and we had good | :37:50. | :38:00. | |
campaigns on a series of things and we cannot let the Tories off the | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
hook. Is your party moving broadly in the direction of Jeremy Corbyn | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
are not? I'm not sure what that means because we're having a debate | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
on the part of the moment about what the policy should be the future and | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
it is right we should do so. The trouble is we cannot make that | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
debate just in words when the Tories are being let off the hook on Europe | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
and on Heathrow and on tax credits and a series of things. I will try | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
to make the question more clear next time. | :38:29. | :38:29. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
Coming up on the programme: This letter tells you that | :38:34. | :38:46. | |
on a portion of your taxes will go to the Scottish government - | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
What are the options open in Wednesday's budget? | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
Next Wednesday we'll see the practical results | :38:58. | :39:09. | |
of the Calman Commission which in 2012 decided that Scotland | :39:10. | :39:11. | |
could increase or decrease income tax. | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
It will be clear in this week's Holyrood budget what option | :39:15. | :39:17. | |
the Finance Secretary John Swinney has chosen against the background | :39:18. | :39:19. | |
And of course factored into that, we shouldn't ignore the looming | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
In the last few weeks taxpayers across Scotland have received a | :39:25. | :39:43. | |
brown envelope along with the Christmas post. The letter is from | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
the Inland Revenue and it is informing us that from April next | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
year some of our income tax will be paid to the Scottish Government. | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
This is a change from the current system puts sees all tax going to | :39:56. | :40:02. | |
the UK Government. I caught up with 1 person who has received his | :40:03. | :40:10. | |
letter. I would like to know where the tax was getting distributed. I | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
am on my way to Stirling University to meet an economist will hopefully | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
answer some of Paul's questions and look at the option for John Swinney | :40:20. | :40:31. | |
Winnie announces the the back decision next week. -- when he. Rate | :40:32. | :40:42. | |
will be set where all income tax bands will be set so that will be a | :40:43. | :40:48. | |
Scottish rate that applies across all of the tax bands. If he sets the | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
Scottish rate at 10p, actually nothing will change. But if he sets | :40:55. | :41:05. | |
it at 12p, the basic would go up to 22p and higher rate would go from | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
40p to 42p and additional rate would go from 45p to 47p. -- the basic | :41:12. | :41:24. | |
would go up from 20p to 22p. Speaking ahead of the budget, | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
Finance Secretary John Swinney says tough choices have to be made | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
because of the 12% cut his finances by the UK Government that he gave no | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
indication what he might do with his new powers over income tax. What I | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
will have to do for the 1st time is set to Scottish rate of income tax. | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
That is an essential part of the budget process within Scotland and | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
those decisions will be set out to Parliament on Wednesday but we take | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
those decisions against a very difficult backdrop of the financial | :41:55. | :41:57. | |
reductions that have come from the UK Government against the | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
determination of the Scottish film to make sure that we take every step | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
we possibly can do to protect the vulnerable public services which | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
matter to the people of our country. The political reality is this budget | :42:10. | :42:12. | |
is 5 months ahead of a Scottish parliamentary election. I would | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
expect the opposition parties to say you have those new powers and those | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
new opportunities. Why not doing more with them? In that sense | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
bracelet tit-for-tat blame game as usual but the political reality is | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
that this is a pre-election budget and therefore we should not expect | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
too much in the way of dramatic developments. It is traditional in | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
these situations to save the Rabbit? If that is a rabbit it will be a | :42:41. | :42:47. | |
very bunny indeed. -- where is the Rabbit? Next Wednesday will find out | :42:48. | :42:55. | |
if John Swinney is more Scrooge than Santa. | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
Joining me now is SNP MSP Kenneth Gibson, who is convenor | :43:00. | :43:02. | |
of the Fiscal Commission and Labour MSP Jackie Baillie, | :43:03. | :43:04. | |
who is the party's spokesperson on public services and wealth | :43:05. | :43:06. | |
I want to ask about a couple things that have come up today such as the | :43:07. | :43:18. | |
Forth Bridge. The new allegation that very heavy vehicles have been | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
stopped from going on for some time, the implication being they knew | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
there was a problem. I think as each day passes that is another | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
revelation and I do think it is time that the SNP government to come | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
clean will stop 1st we had the question of whether maintenance | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
contracts were cancelled and not and then we hear that was a 59% cut in | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
the budget and now we hear today about this. What do you want the | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
government to do what it is not doing already? I think they need to | :43:48. | :43:54. | |
be transparent. You only need to listen to people in phone in | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
programmes to understand how agitated about this. We do need to | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
learn from our mistakes and we did with the Scottish treatment to put | :44:05. | :44:06. | |
everything in the public domain and be transparent and not to engage in | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
ever-increasing amount spent to hide the truth from people about cut | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
budgets and maintenance contracts. Would you accept, Kenneth Gibson, | :44:15. | :44:20. | |
that whatever the rights and wrongs of it, this has not been handled | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
very well? It has not been handled well by the Scottish Government? I | :44:28. | :44:34. | |
think this is bound to happen and such an emotive issue which has | :44:35. | :44:37. | |
disrupted tens of thousands of people's lives. We have seen a lot | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
of transparency and the Minister made a statement to Parliament which | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
were discussed for 20 minutes of First Minister 's questions. It | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
seemed to be contradicted by what he said on the radio the next morning. | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
To be fair it is a movable feast and new things are coming out. If Jackie | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
Baillie said something in Parliament 1 day and is something else on radio | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
the next day you would not just say I take my hat off to her. You would | :45:04. | :45:09. | |
say, come on what is going on? I think everything has been put in the | :45:10. | :45:16. | |
public domain. It clearly has not. Derek Mackay has been frank about | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
what the difficulties are in the First Minister made this crystal | :45:21. | :45:22. | |
clear that this at a problem which was fined a few weeks ago and not | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
been picked up on previous maintenance because it was only a | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
new floor in the bridge itself that was picked up. I also wanted to ask | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
about Donald Trump. We learned this morning that Alex Salmond has signed | :45:38. | :45:39. | |
a petition saying he should be banned from entering Britain. Is | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
that something you would go along with? A number of my SNP colleagues | :45:44. | :45:49. | |
and a number of Labour colleagues support that point of view. I do not | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
support the point of view and I think that when Nick Griffin | :45:54. | :46:00. | |
appeared in question time some years ago a lot of people wanted him | :46:01. | :46:03. | |
banned but when it came on he made such a fool of itself it undermined | :46:04. | :46:10. | |
a lot of the support the BNP had. I'm not sure that is the way | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
forward. Whatever you think of his ideas has | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
forward. Whatever you think of his makes his investments but is not | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
allowed to visit them or he sells off to someone else? I do not | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
believe it should be a ban on Mr Trump coming to the UK. What do you | :46:28. | :46:29. | |
think of that? I don't Trump coming to the UK. What do you | :46:30. | :46:35. | |
what he Trump coming to the UK. What do you | :46:36. | :46:37. | |
reprehensible and people have been very clear about that and people are | :46:38. | :46:37. | |
made our views known. very clear about that and people are | :46:38. | :46:45. | |
imaginable is that that the system ought chance that this man could be | :46:46. | :46:52. | |
the president of the United States. -- I find it unimaginable there is | :46:53. | :47:01. | |
that ought chance. -- remote. John Swinney will have too set a rate of | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
income tax. It has delayed getting this point because of reality he | :47:09. | :47:11. | |
will do anything different to what he's doing already? The Finance | :47:12. | :47:17. | |
committee a lot of lot of evidence right across the board from the | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
to the CBI to the Scottish council for voluntary organisations and all | :47:23. | :47:25. | |
of the muster the same thing which is that in the 1st year of this tax | :47:26. | :47:28. | |
they do not see this should be any change. I do not know whether John | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
Swinney will increase taxes are lower them or give them the same. | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
Would you be disappointed of nothing happened? Not necessarily because | :47:38. | :47:43. | |
people say let's have some stability the 1st year. A lot of people | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
watching would ask if this is the Scottish National party, the same | :47:49. | :47:51. | |
people who demand power after power after power and then when they are | :47:52. | :47:57. | |
given powers to and around and say, we want more powers but these once | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
you have just given us, you do we do not want to use them? The reality is | :48:03. | :48:09. | |
we cannot even change the bandings of the flesh at this stage. If it | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
goes up it is the same for everybody. If increased it for | :48:16. | :48:18. | |
higher taxpayers it would be the same for lower taxpayers. The people | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
who are vastly out there who run businesses and the trade unions, | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
etc. They same for the 1st year letters keep it as it is. -- lets | :48:27. | :48:37. | |
keep visitors. -- as it is. People would ask you why you do not put | :48:38. | :48:45. | |
taxes up to counter the steady policies of the Conservative | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
government. People with low wages have had pay rises above inflation | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
for a few years and this is not the time to increased taxation which | :48:57. | :48:59. | |
would be across the board. He believes some money in their pockets | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
and this is not the time to do it. We brought in attacks for land and | :49:04. | :49:07. | |
buildings last year which was a huge difference to what the United | :49:08. | :49:13. | |
Kingdom. Jackie Baillie, you're quoted today saying that Scottish | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
Labour will offer real alternative to a sedative at different decisions | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
on tax to the Tories and to the SNP. -- on a steady. -- is. --Austerity. | :49:24. | :49:40. | |
There is no comprehensive spending review and we believe it should be a | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
budget for the medium to long term. We see doing the sensitive sort of | :49:46. | :49:51. | |
thing that Kenny Gibson was talking about between the bands. We have | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
said we would introduce a 50p top rate of income tax and we would not | :49:57. | :50:05. | |
take a cut in passenger transport duty. | :50:06. | :50:13. | |
This was supposedly because you were not going to have people suffering | :50:14. | :50:20. | |
from the tax credit cuts that George Osborne was going to make but he has | :50:21. | :50:26. | |
not made those cuts. He has delayed those cuts, let's be clear about | :50:27. | :50:34. | |
that. Are you saying that people on the existing system will not be | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
affected but when new people come on they may get less than they would | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
have done in the current system. Are you saying that the Labour | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
government in Scotland would mitigate all the effects of that new | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
system? We would need to examine the system but we have already | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
identified financial leaders we reduce to ensure we have an | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
anti-steady budget. The SNP have been silent on what budgets they | :51:00. | :51:06. | |
would bring in. We have been seeing a budget for an election and not for | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
the long-term. With new powers over taxation and welfare people expect | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
cuts. What would you do if you read John Swinney next week? He has a | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
number of options. What rate of tax would you said? We do not think | :51:23. | :51:25. | |
there should be a differential on tax at this time. You hit a done as | :51:26. | :51:32. | |
much as you do the wealthiest. What we are saying is there is a big | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
debate to happen about the kind of tax powers we want to see in the | :51:39. | :51:41. | |
future and hope we reduce them. We are prepared to set out in the | :51:42. | :51:47. | |
agenda and the SNP are being silent. John Swinney is already seeing the | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
terrible decisions you will have to make because of this dreadful Tory | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
austerity. What is this government cut? If you look at it, we have not | :51:57. | :52:04. | |
enabled to spend as much on local government services, 60,000 people | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
have left the. A lot of the services we would like to deliver our not | :52:11. | :52:16. | |
being delivered. Like what? We would like to deliver better health | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
services than we have. We would like to make significant improvements. | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
Only a year ago you were asking people to vote to leave the UK | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
because of this dreadful Tory austerity policy. What are these | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
huge cut? What are they? You will see this week eight ?300 million... | :52:35. | :52:40. | |
Everyone would like to spend more money on the NHS but what are these | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
cuts, what would people have got if it was not for posterity? What tools | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
are not getting prepared, schools are not being billed as quickly as | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
they would have, bridges. I thought you claimed your school programme | :52:54. | :52:59. | |
was a triumph of capital spending. Name a skill that has not been | :53:00. | :53:06. | |
built. -- school. If you want to look at schools even in my own | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
constituency the Gaelic Academy could have in-built earlier with the | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
money to build it and that is being built now. We read this austerity | :53:18. | :53:24. | |
then? Scotland has a 27% cut on capital funding if you're trying to | :53:25. | :53:32. | |
say that has now affect. There is a growth of ?500 million. It is 70%. | :53:33. | :53:39. | |
-- 17. What do you remember | :53:40. | :53:45. | |
about this year? Was there one political event | :53:46. | :53:46. | |
that stood out for you? Hundreds of thousands of Syrian | :53:47. | :53:49. | |
refugees crossing the Mediterranean? As we approach the year end | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
of 2015, here's the A to Z No, no, no, order. The house will | :53:55. | :54:18. | |
show it's a PC Asian in a way other than flapping. -- its appreciation. | :54:19. | :55:04. | |
Hello. Good afternoon. We love you, Charles. | :55:05. | :55:26. | |
Taking a desk, having a a go, that pumps me up and if I am | :55:27. | :55:33. | |
getting lively about it that is because I feel lively. -- taking a | :55:34. | :55:41. | |
risk. Our basic pleasures for a plan for working people. Shall I tell you | :55:42. | :55:47. | |
something about JCB? They made their tell got. -- made this helicopter. | :55:48. | :55:55. | |
Right across this campaign it is about making... | :55:56. | :56:08. | |
LAUGHTER We are not going to have a | :56:09. | :56:11. | |
coalition, we are not going to have a deal. Will you put to bed rumours | :56:12. | :56:18. | |
that you plan to cut child tax credit and respect child benefit to | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
two children? I do not want to do that. That is ludicrous you are | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
lying. Why would we ever believe anything else you say? Am I tough | :56:30. | :56:36. | |
enough? Hell, yes, I am tough enough! # it's the final countdown. | :56:37. | :56:48. | |
# for you I have two listed all | :56:49. | :56:59. | |
because the writing's on the wall. # I will be resigning as leader of the | :57:00. | :57:25. | |
Liberal Democrats. Now it is time for someone else to take forward the | :57:26. | :57:27. | |
leadership of this party. # this is the industry, this is the | :57:28. | :57:52. | |
industry # why have you got a tie on? You at any job. -- I have you | :57:53. | :57:59. | |
not 40 tie on? An elected Labour and Liberal lords | :58:00. | :58:31. | |
have voted down a matter passed by the elected House of Commons. # | :58:32. | :58:52. | |
don't believe me just watch! # but you have oil? Yes. Maybe invade you? | :58:53. | :58:56. | |
You don't usually ask permission. This is an exit poll very carefully | :58:57. | :59:14. | |
calculated. He returns. Ten o'clock and we are saying the Conservatives | :59:15. | :59:22. | |
are the largest party. If this exit poll is right I will publicly eat my | :59:23. | :59:24. | |
hat. English votes for English issues, | :59:25. | :59:39. | |
terribly simple. It is an incomprehensible mess. I will oppose | :59:40. | :59:49. | |
it until my dying day. The wealthier powers of the Smith commission. Fall | :59:50. | :59:58. | |
short subject to negotiation and agreement. No vetoes. I will believe | :59:59. | :00:00. | |
it when I see it. SNP MPs will vote against air | :00:01. | :00:49. | |
strikes in the House of Commons. Public opinion is moving | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
increasingly against what I believed to be an ill thought out rush to | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
war. Do we go after these carers in their heartlands where they are | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
plotting to kill British people or do we sit back and wait for them to | :01:03. | :01:10. | |
attack us? # here I go again on my own. # # going down the only road | :01:11. | :01:20. | |
I've ever known. # like a drifter I was born to walk alone. # focus on | :01:21. | :01:34. | |
me. # Conservative Party candidate 18,848. | :01:35. | :02:00. | |
You will be a leadership election for the next leader of UK inset | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
Amber and I will consider over the course of this summer whether to put | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
my name forward to do that job again. He is standing down but he | :02:09. | :02:14. | |
may stand again? When is toast not post? # sisters are doing it for | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
themselves. # because I am an MP, not only am I | :02:21. | :02:46. | |
the youngest but I am now also the only 20-year-old in the Hall of the | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
UK that the Chancellor was prepared to help with housing. | :02:50. | :03:05. | |
I'm joined by a trio of commentators. | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
Severin Carrell is the Guardian's Scotland correspondent, | :03:11. | :03:12. | |
Katie Grant is a journalist and author and Paul McNamee | :03:13. | :03:14. | |
I watched that earlier on and what struck me more than usual was the | :03:15. | :03:30. | |
earlier it seemed a long time. The relatives because everyone has | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
changed so much no one expected the Conservative government on Labour in | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
Scotland to be completely wipe out? It has been an enormous year but I | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
am reminded that once I looked into the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, the year | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
2066 -- 1066 it said nothing much happened this year. I wonder if the | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
Pope will look back and see it as we see it. The thing that struck me | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
most was how many successful female politicians there where. This has in | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
the year of the woman politician. Nicola Sturgeon, Kezia Dugdale, Ruth | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
Davidson. Even with Yvette Cooper it would have in a lovely hat-trick. It | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
has been a Europe with the domestic and global have walloped into each | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
other and so we have an half with our eyes firmly focused on Syria and | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
half with our eyes firmly focused on seismic events at home and it is not | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
often a year that we get so much change in EU both abroad and here. | :04:32. | :04:38. | |
Do you think it has been seismic? Yes. I think it has been an | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
extraordinary year. I think when historians come to look back over | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
this period of our history they will see 2015 as a more important year | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
for Scotland than 2014 because we are now in an SNP either. This could | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
the anti-pork defining moment. Not truly geologically but in the narrow | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
frame of life we now have the generational shift. A number of SNP | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
's. The number they are on the cusp of having a second majority | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
government at Holyrood. The sense in which the opposition parties as well | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
are now so diminished by the shift in what happened in May 2015I think | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
actually is going to define the next couple of generations. Whatever the | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
outcome of May 2016, the SNP will be in power for the next five years in | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
Scotland. The outcome could be different but based on the old know | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
the difference we are looking at next meet is only any couple of | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
seats even the for the SNP which I think is hugely significant. It is. | :05:41. | :05:48. | |
I think it is always impossible when you look back in the year to single | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
out 1 particular point. Especially when you look back at a film like | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
that you wonder what is the key moment when the international and | :06:00. | :06:09. | |
domestic worlds came together such as the C Heddle attack. | :06:10. | :06:21. | |
--Charlie Hebdo. Then you can look at me and when David Dimbleby read | :06:22. | :06:33. | |
out the exit poll. -- look at the month of May. There was a very | :06:34. | :06:42. | |
dramatic moment earlier in the morning when John Curtis said it | :06:43. | :06:52. | |
could be a Conservative majority. --Curtice. I see that as a big | :06:53. | :07:03. | |
moment for us but not in the Globe. Governments come and governments | :07:04. | :07:11. | |
goal but it is not as if they have such a stonking majority the | :07:12. | :07:13. | |
Conservatives could do as they like. And then overtaken by events as | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
always. I was thinking about what you were saying about the SNP and | :07:19. | :07:26. | |
the Forth Road Bridge might loom very large and growing larger every | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
day because closure of the bridge is something affects Scotland very | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
particularly and it affects people very directly every morning so I | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
wonder if maybe 7th, of course I think the posters have been wrong in | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
the past, but there will be an SNP majority, but I think these sort of | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
seemingly quite small events can suddenly escalate and derail whole | :07:49. | :07:57. | |
political leaders. I wonder. Clearly the opposition parties to be SNP | :07:58. | :08:03. | |
would love the bridge to be a giant example of the narrative they are | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
trying to create which is that the SNP go on about independence but but | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
meanwhile back in the backyard everything is going to rack and ruin | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
because they have not been paying attention. Is the even the slightest | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
chance that narrative would work? I think 1 of the really interesting | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
political challenges for the opposition parties is that for a lot | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
of the Scottish electorate that appears to be this disconnect | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
between the performance on day-to-day domestic policies that | :08:33. | :08:34. | |
the Scottish garment is there to fulfil and the way the SNP opinion | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
poll rating appears to be so buoyant. That is no connection they | :08:41. | :08:48. | |
make between it is Nicola Sturgeon who is responsible but surely we | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
should be going for an alternative now. You may find that the bridge | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
that it is an incremental thing that adds to the crisis over the NHS and | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
the crisis in education spending and so on and so forth and people start | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
to think maybe they are not up to the job. But the problem for the | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
opposition parties is that they have to appear to be a credible | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
alternative and as things currently stand sturgeon is still the | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
pre-eminent politician in Scotland and the Forth Road Bridge. To really | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
annoy thousands of voters in 5 will be enough to bridge that gap? In the | :09:18. | :09:32. | |
Kingdom of Fife. Labour are also supposedly involved in this | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
regeneration narrative. How do you think that is going Christmas not | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
terrifically well. Jeremy Corbyn says it is going swimmingly because | :09:42. | :09:44. | |
he is just won an election and people say he would have done very | :09:45. | :09:51. | |
badly and if not lose a safe Labour seat. Jeremy carbon came out rather | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
well and he managed to get a set amount of people who would vote | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
Labour to vote for him but that does not necessarily reflect on people in | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
the wider sense. If he had lost in Oldham, the disaster would been | :10:08. | :10:14. | |
told. That is no way they would have lost that matter who's in charge to | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
think is a false reading saying that because Labour won the leadership of | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
Gerry Corbyn is going well. I think Casey Dugdale is a good young reader | :10:24. | :10:37. | |
--Kezia. -- leader. But Ruth Davison seems to clips and seems to be the | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
rising voice of an alternative point of view and talking about women | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
becoming much more dominant this year, she will have an incredible | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
role to play in 2016 running up to Hollywood elections. If she can | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
galvanise a particular vote the change in Scotland could be marked. | :10:55. | :11:09. | |
I was just thinking that maybe the big S this year 's scrutiny. Corbyn | :11:10. | :11:19. | |
supporters would say you have underestimated us. You keep saying | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
it will be a disaster and it is not. It is not a disaster yet because | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
there has not really been anything to be as acid about. I agree with | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
Paul, I do not see how they could have lost the Oldham by-election | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
although I do remember that he was not involve much in it. I think the | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
great test for the Labour Party is still to come. We have just seen | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
Jeremy carbon go to the stop the War Christmas party and I think actually | :11:44. | :11:50. | |
that is a sort of echo chamber for a Jeremy Corbyn which is quite | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
dangerous for him that he will be buoyed up by his own supporters and | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
take very little notice of what is going on the rest of the country. | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
Again, playing devils advocate, his supporters would say people are | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
getting this wrong. For example, in splits over Syria, the issue for a | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
lot of people was not about whether that would Labour splits over Syria, | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
it is nice that that is a proper debate about this for once and | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
frankly we do not care. We cared about Syria but not the splits. I | :12:23. | :12:29. | |
think that is true but do people really care about Syria when the | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
care most about the economy and jobs and proper management and thinks the | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
government should be doing Gate today. Syria for most voters are | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
still apart from their everyday concerns. What Labour and the Carbon | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
leadership team have to accept is that they have challenges right in | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
front of them such as the May elections in Scotland and Wales and | :12:54. | :12:56. | |
local government downside. The report from a lot of Labour MSPs in | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
Scotland is that Corbyn is not sufficiently attractive to a lot of | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
Labour voters they need to take back on board. On the doorstop they are | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
hearing voters saying that they are not sure Corbyn is the man for us. | :13:12. | :13:22. | |
They think they might be able to finally achieve liftoff in this | :13:23. | :13:29. | |
election in May, the Conservatives. I do not think the world because | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
when it comes to putting across the box people will still be resistant | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
but Ruth Davison has done really good job at making the Conservatives | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
look nice, if that is possible word. I think she herself her manner is a | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
very good advertisement for them. That's all from the us | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
this week and for 2015. | :13:49. | :13:51. |