Browse content similar to 06/03/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The leave campaign deploys Boris Johnson to defeat | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
what they call Project Fear, but are the remain campaign | :00:42. | :00:43. | |
George Osborne hoped taxing pensions would help him fill the black hole | :00:44. | :00:49. | |
in the public finances, so why has he abandoned his plans | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
And four more states have voted - is Trump a step closer | :00:53. | :00:59. | |
the Conservatives will overtake Labour in the elections and become | :01:00. | :01:13. | |
Will she be able to kick the party into touch? | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
if this development could be the answer to London's housing problems. | :01:18. | :01:30. | |
And talking of Project Fear, with us for the duration this | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
morning, a terrifying political panel whose incisive insights strike | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
fear into the hearts of politicians everywhere. | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
Toby Young, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
So, he took a while to make his mind up which way to swing, | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
but those campaigning for the UK to leave the European Union | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
will hope the deployment of their most charismatic performer | :01:55. | :01:56. | |
- Boris Johnson - on the Marr Show this morning | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
The Mayor of London took a swing at the deal the David Cameron | :02:00. | :02:13. | |
the stated Government policy was that we should have a reformed | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
EU, fundamentally reformed, wholesale change in Britain's | :02:19. | :02:19. | |
relationship with the EU was promised. | :02:20. | :02:21. | |
That has obviously not been delivered. | :02:22. | :02:22. | |
We were told at the time that Britain would be perfectly safe | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
to walk away, by the Government, by the Prime Minister. | :02:26. | :02:27. | |
That has now, that rhetoric has now very much been changed, | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
I think, by the way, the policy was right then. | :02:31. | :02:38. | |
We should be absolutely confident about the future of this country. | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
What do you make of his performance? David Lloyd George said negotiating | :02:42. | :02:48. | |
with devil are was like trying to pick up mercury with a fog, and I | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
imagine Andrew Marr feels similarly after trying to pin down Boris | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
Johnson over questions of the Brexit. | :03:00. | :03:12. | |
If these leaves campaign don't have an agreement on something that | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
fundamental, you can see them struggling with the real harsh light | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
of scrutiny getting applied in the later weeks of this referendum | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
campaign, I think what will end up happening is there will be a | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
division of Labour whereby Michael Gove leads on the hard detail and | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
interviews such as this, Boris Johnson does what he's good at such | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
is the retail politics, and we don't have incidents like that worrying | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
level of confusion. Was it an assured level of performance? I | :03:45. | :03:51. | |
think the way that interview will be seen is as Boris not being able to | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
get a wording edgeways, being constantly interrupted, not being | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
allowed to develop his points, and that will add to a sense of | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
grievance which is emerging as one of the features of this campaign. | :04:04. | :04:10. | |
The leaves campaign already complaining about George Osborne | :04:11. | :04:18. | |
lining up the G20, David Cameron getting these European leaders to | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
weigh in on the remaining side. That grievance narrative will probably be | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
powerful when it comes to mobilising the debate. Wasn't he being | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
interrupted because Andrew Marr was trying to get him to address the | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
point? When you interview Boris, you have got to come not just Boris, but | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
when you interview him you have got to interrupt because quite often | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
politicians just play for time in these interviews. Often he was | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
developing a particular point, and while he was trying to develop a | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
point and answer what Andrew Marr had asked him, he got interrupted, | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
but I think the general sense of grievance emerging on the leave site | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
will help mobilise the levers when it comes to the actual referendum. | :05:04. | :05:11. | |
The fact the levers feel more passionately than the remainders do | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
about remaining will help the leave cause. I think that is the best | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
defence you can give Boris this morning, it is worrying. There is a | :05:22. | :05:30. | |
moment of extreme danger for Boris. What happens after the referendum, | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
particularly if we stay in? Should he take a Cabinet job, in which he | :05:35. | :05:41. | |
affects people's lives, or does he stay on the backbenches not making | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
his move? He is in real danger. A lot of his popularity comes from the | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
fact he doesn't do politics. He hasn't got an enormous track record | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
to his name as London mayor, and people don't have a huge amount of | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
tolerance for that hail fellow well met act. Is there a lot of | :06:00. | :06:09. | |
grievance, as Toby says? Yes, you can imagine how much worse it will | :06:10. | :06:18. | |
be later on. Things like Scheuble's interview, where he said Britain | :06:19. | :06:27. | |
would have to pay in to have access to the EU market, that could be seen | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
as bullying. If you are on the other side of the argument, of course you | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
will see it as provocative. My worry is the campaign will get poisonous, | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
and the opening two weeks is reflective of something much worse. | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
If this grievance narrative begins to gain traction over the course of | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
that campaign, won't it help mobilise the leave side? We have | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
seen how it can motivate voters in America with Donald Trump. But there | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
was grievance in the Scottish referendum, I think it helps, but to | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
win plurality you need to go beyond grievance. That partly depends on | :07:12. | :07:18. | |
turnout and if the public are turned off by the negative tone of the | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
debate, you will have a low turnout and that will probably favour | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
leaving rather than remaining. We will see. It is a long time until | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
July the 23rd. It's been branded Project Fear | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
by opponents and in a moment I'll be talking to one of the remain | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
campaign's chief protagonists. First, here's a reminder of how | :07:38. | :07:39. | |
they've been making their case over Tell us what the model | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
is that they believe the European Union would | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
negotiate with Britain. Remember, this is going | :07:50. | :07:51. | |
to be a divorce if we decide to leave, and as with any | :07:52. | :07:53. | |
divorce it is likely to get messy. In many ways, I am a Eurosceptic, | :07:54. | :08:00. | |
absolutely, and I'm still a Brussels basher in many ways | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
and will always remain so. I think the answer to the concerns | :08:05. | :08:15. | |
that people have, and these concerns of course are not | :08:16. | :08:17. | |
completely absent in Scotland, isn't to clamp down | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
on free movement. If we leave, the people | :08:21. | :08:28. | |
who are advising us to leave, they cannot at the moment answer | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
the question about what arrangements So Project Fact is about saying stay | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
and you know what we get. And I'm joined now by Nick Herbert | :08:35. | :08:50. | |
who is leading the Conservatives' Let's go through a number of things | :08:51. | :08:59. | |
your site has been saying. Firstly let's take the Calais camp, the | :09:00. | :09:07. | |
Prime Minister 's office has said if we move the camp -- if we leave the | :09:08. | :09:24. | |
camp will move to the south-east of England. They would be little | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
interest in remaining the agreement we have that people stay on the | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
French side. That will result in people coming over to this side, and | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
we having to deal with them rather than the French, which means they | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
can claim asylum in this country. And what was interesting about this | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
claim, which I think is about a common-sense that is how the French | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
would respond if we were outside of the EU and they no longer have the | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
same set of incentives to cooperate, is that it was dismissed as | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
scaremongering and now we have the most senior politicians in France | :10:03. | :10:04. | |
confirming that this would probably be the case so this isn't | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
scaremongering at all. What I'm wondering is why you would move the | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
camp overnight to the south of England. Explain why they would form | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
a camp if they have made it to Britain. The point is that we would | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
have to deal with them on the British side. That would require us | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
to send them back. One of the things we have in this debate that many to | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
do is to remind ourselves that we have border controls in Britain, we | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
are not part of the passport free area, the Schengen Agreement in the | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
rest of Europe, and we can and do check EU citizens when they come in. | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
We indeed turn them away. Thousands of EU citizens are turned away from | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
our borders and it is too are advantage that the controls that | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
prevent people from coming in are on the French side. Let's assume the | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
French do what you are claiming. If they come here, if they make it | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
here, either they will apply for asylum, in which case they will | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
don't to official reception centres until it is sorted out, or they will | :11:12. | :11:20. | |
disappear into the labour market. Neither involves creation of a camp | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
in England. I don't know what was meant about a camp, what I do know | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
is that at the moment we have arrangements where people can be | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
stopped on the French side, the French would have little incentive | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
to keep that if we walk out of the EU. It was initially dismissed on | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
this site by Brexit campaigners as scaremongering, I think it is a very | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
good example of an issue that we will have to deal with if we leave. | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
You keep on mentioning these French politicians, only one has said this, | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
that the economics minister. Would you like to tell our viewers what | :11:59. | :12:05. | |
the interior minister has said? Right up to President Hollande... He | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
didn't say anything about that. President Hollande and his ministers | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
have said this will be on the agenda. There is a raft of French | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
politicians who have made this clear. Name one. Common sense would | :12:20. | :12:31. | |
tell us that if there is an arrangement, because it is a part of | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
the cooperation and partnership we have with the French that they would | :12:36. | :12:37. | |
no longer have that same arrangement if we were out of the EU. I will | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
tell you what the French interior minister says, he says ending the | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
treaties which govern the Calais camp would not be responsible | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
solution, we will not do it, we would like to go on building a good | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
immigration policy with the UK, especially at Calais. Other French | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
ministers have said different things. One. Let's just look at what | :13:03. | :13:17. | |
governs the Calais camp. The 1991 protocol governs the tunnel, another | :13:18. | :13:33. | |
treaty... Wires are EU membership critical factor? I have already made | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
that point, that this a separate issue legally to our EU membership | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
of the question is what incentive would the French have to continue | :13:44. | :13:46. | |
with those arrangements if we were outside of the EU, and it is as I | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
say senior French politicians themselves and local French | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
politicians who are raising these questions. What I think is a | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
reminder of... But these are EU treaties, Anglo-French treaties, the | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
French could stop them tomorrow whether we are in or out. I said | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
that before you did that it is legally a separate matter, but | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
politically I think there is little doubt that the French would not have | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
the same set of incentives to stand by this issue. That was made clear | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
at the highest level last year. All of this is a reminder that Britain | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
is in a different position than the rest of our EU partners. We are not | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
in the Schengen arrangement, we do have border controls. It is in our | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
interests that some of those border controls operate on the other side | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
of the Channel Tunnel, and in our interest that we continue to remain | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
outside of the Schengen area. It is one of the things that gives Britain | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
the best of both worlds, we are able to access the market but outside of | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
the passport free area. The protocol that governs the tunnel is a | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
protocol to the Treaty of Canterbury which sets up the tunnel, there is | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
no way you can change it without reneging on the treaty. To close | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
down the existing situation would effectively close the tunnel. The | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
French government owns 55% of the operation of the tunnel, why would | :15:12. | :15:19. | |
they do that in or out of the EU? Ask the French politicians. You | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
confirmed it was the senior French minister. He said he was implicitly | :15:26. | :15:32. | |
confirmed by the President. He hopes to be running for President next | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
year. None of this has come out of thin air. It has come because it | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
would very obviously be one of the ways in which we would lose out, | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
potentially, from withdrawing from the EU. That is because the same | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
sort of arrangements that means that we cooperate with our partners would | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
no longer exist. Let's move onto the benefits of membership. Your side of | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
the campaign has said that we benefit ?3000 per household has | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
accumulated over our time in the EU. Do you stand by that figure? It was | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
a CBI figure and it was not actually their own calculation. What they did | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
was look at a range of studies that show the economic benefits of the | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
single market. They range from some saying that there was not a benefit, | :16:18. | :16:19. | |
single market. They range from some to some saying there was a very | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
substantial benefit. They have updated this research just last | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
month and they said that the majority of the studies showed there | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
was a substantial benefit. About 10% of JD chilly GDP. They calculate it | :16:32. | :16:39. | |
as ?10,000 per head. You are using it, Britain is stronger in Europe, | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
do you stand by it? It is the CBI's figure. Do you stand by it? It is a | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
average figure that has been done by the studies that have been done, not | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
just the CBI's own studies. It shows there is a net benefit to us being | :16:57. | :17:03. | |
in the single market. Do you stand by the ?3000 figure? It is not a | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
figure I have used. Your campaign has used it, look down there, | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
Britain Is Stronger In Europe. It is a perfectly reasonable figure for | :17:15. | :17:17. | |
them to use because it is a study that has been done, not their | :17:18. | :17:20. | |
studies. The majority of those studies that have been done, they | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
show that there is a benefit to being in the single market. The CBI | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
stays of its study of 12 research papers, originally beginning with | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
five, all of which were pro-EU, it has widened that to 12, some of | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
which are more hostile. It there is an and avoidable degree of | :17:42. | :17:51. | |
uncertainty. But you have to caveat that? We need to weigh up the costs | :17:52. | :17:58. | |
and benefits. The majority of the studies showed that there would be a | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
benefit. That could be more substantial. In terms of the | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
increase in GDP, the domestic product, that has been gained as a | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
result of being in the single market. It comes back to the single | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
market, because it gives us easier trade and facilitates business, | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
because it benefits the huge number of companies that trade with the | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
European Union, there is a benefit to the whole economy. The big | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
question is, if we were to leave the European Union, what alternative | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
arrangement would we have? That is the question the opponents will not | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
answer. They will not say if we would be in the single market or | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
not. The risk is that we would lose those benefits. As a consequence, | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
there would be an impact on businesses and, therefore, on the | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
economic benefit coming to the country. On the research paper, you | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
are right that the CBI did not do its own research, the latest one was | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
12 research papers with 14 estimates. Out of those, it took | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
seven. It did not include some of them. It happens that the seven they | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
took out showed far fewer benefits. So we are right to be sceptical. The | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
sample is down to a largely pro-EU sample. To be fair, I think you need | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
to ask the CBI about its calculation. But what was striking | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
was that the range of benefit and the majority of studies that they | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
tuck it down to, the seven... Took it down to. Yes, was up to 10% of | :19:28. | :19:35. | |
GDP. Most serious economic analysis shows there was a benefit to being | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
in the single market for the economy. That is why businesses | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
themselves, the majority of members of the British chamber of commerce, | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
the majority of members of the Institute of Directors, the FTSE 100 | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
companies, a full third of the FTSE 100 companies said it would be | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
damaging to leave the EU. The other two thirds were not saying the | :19:59. | :20:04. | |
opposite. This claim of a decade of uncertainty, a vote to leave the EU | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
would be the start, not the end of the process and could lead to a | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
decade or more of uncertainty. Why would it take twice as long to | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
withdraw from Europe as it took to win the Second World War? Because of | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
the length of time it takes to do trade deals and make alternative | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
arrangements. If you look at the average trade deal that is done, | :20:24. | :20:30. | |
they take years. Canada's trade is still not fully signed off. It took | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
seven years. We would have had to negotiate alternative arrangements, | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
not just with the EU, that would be problematic enough, and the other | :20:40. | :20:42. | |
side has not told us what arrangement that would be, but the | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
one thing that is becoming increasingly clear is that it would | :20:46. | :20:48. | |
not give us the benefits of the single market we currently have. | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
With the 35 other trade deals that the EU has done, those arrangements | :20:55. | :21:01. | |
would fall as well. Would we not just say, put the need to negotiate | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
a single market agreement to one side, why would we not say to other | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
countries, Morocco, South Korea and so on, we will continue with | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
existing trading relationships. Why would they not agree? Because, | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
automatically, all of these deals fall. But why would Morocco not | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
continue to trade with us on the same basis as it does at the moment? | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
The question is not whether people would continue to trade, it is what | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
it terms the trade would be. On the same basis? We would have to | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
renegotiate with the EU, which would be hugely problematic and we would | :21:41. | :21:43. | |
be disadvantaged by the process that would be triggered. Stick with | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
non-EU countries, why would a country that happily trades with us | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
under the EU rules, why would they not continue to trade on the same | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
basis out of the EU? It depends on the kind of deal that we are doing | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
with the EU. If we are unable to do a deal with the EU, we would fall | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
out altogether and then into the World Trade Organisation rules, | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
meaning we trade with tariffs, which would be immensely damaging to | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
British business and to jobs. Hold on, you mentioned tariffs. In your | :22:16. | :22:23. | |
Project Fear scenario, sterling is down by 20%. The average tariff on | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
cars would be ten. Overall we would be more competitive, we would face a | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
tariff wall of 10%, but we would be 20% more competitive? What is wrong | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
with that? What is wrong with all of this is that we have, at the moment, | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
a situation of certainty, where businesses know they have access not | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
just to the single market, but also to the 50 or more countries that | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
have done deals with the EU, and more in the pipeline. That gives | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
certainty. We face the prospect of huge uncertainty because the other | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
side will not say what kind of deal would be on offer. They don't know | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
whether it would be like Norway, like Switzerland, these are | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
countries that have the benefits, some benefits of access to the | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
market. It is essentially an open market from Iceland through to | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
Turkey. There is not a single arrangement. But essentially open. | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
Why would the European Union pick on us and not include us in that | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
largely open market from Iceland to Turkey? Because, as the German | :23:31. | :23:33. | |
finance minister said today, we cannot have access to the single | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
market without accepting certain things. Those include freedom of | :23:38. | :23:44. | |
movement and paying in. Overall, the single market gives us much greater | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
benefits to the businesses than alternative arrangements. That is | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
why it would be economically damaging to leave, in the view of | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
most businesses. The important point is this. It is not just a question | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
of the deals we would do, have to do with the EU, it would also be with | :24:03. | :24:09. | |
the 35 other countries, more than 50 other deals, leading to a period of | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
huge uncertainty that is damaging for British businesses and jobs. We | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
have discussed that already. The director-general of the British | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
chamber of commerce, suspended for coming out in favour of Leave. Did | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
anybody involved in Downing Street have something to do with this? I | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
think that is a ridiculous suggestion. I am not surprised there | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
is unhappiness in the British chamber of commerce. They were meant | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
to have a neutral position. The majority of their businesses, in a | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
recent survey, said they wanted to remain. So, no Downing Street hand? | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
Absolutely not. Why would they? Thank you very much. | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
Now, the scenes of hundreds of thousands of desperate migrants | :24:51. | :24:52. | |
that fill our TV screens provide powerful images for those arguing | :24:53. | :24:55. | |
that we should turn our backs on the crisis-hit European Union. | :24:56. | :24:57. | |
In a moment I'll be asking Ukip's only MP, Douglas Carswell, | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
First let's have a look at what Leave campaigners have | :25:01. | :25:03. | |
They need a free-trade deal with us and it will be a central part | :25:04. | :25:13. | |
of the negotiations when we leave the European Union, an important | :25:14. | :25:15. | |
part, but one where they have a commercial imperative | :25:16. | :25:17. | |
Once we have control of our own borders, we can send back | :25:18. | :25:29. | |
whoever we want so if somebody comes in and they are not appropriate, | :25:30. | :25:32. | |
they shouldn't be here, they should've stopped in France | :25:33. | :25:35. | |
or Germany or wherever, we will send them back. | :25:36. | :25:36. | |
So the threat is both wrong, inappropriate, and won't work. | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
Come on, donnez-moi un break, as we say in Brussels. | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
It's sad but perhaps unsurprising that those who want | :25:45. | :25:57. | |
the British people to be kept in the European Union have launched | :25:58. | :25:59. | |
This is designed to make the British people afraid of change. | :26:00. | :26:16. | |
Douglas Carswell joins me now. Let's look at some of the things your side | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
have been complaining about. The cost of membership. We will stop | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
sending ?350 million every week to Brussels. Do you stand by that | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
figure? Absolutely. The reason I do is because every year we make a | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
gross contribution of 19.2 billion, if you divide that by the weeks in a | :26:39. | :26:44. | |
year, 350. We're talking about what we send to Brussels. Let's look in | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
little more detail. This is from Office for Budget Responsibility. | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
These are the 2014 figures. The column on the left-hand side, we | :26:56. | :27:04. | |
have 18.3 billion. It is 19.2 now, but I will let that go. It gives you | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
350 million. But before we send that, we deduct the rebate of 5 | :27:11. | :27:17. | |
billion. We don't send the rebate, we take the ?5 billion off. The | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
contribution we send is ?13.5 billion and that is 260 billion -- | :27:24. | :27:34. | |
million per week. The figure is very vulnerable to the machinations of | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
ministers. Look at what Tony Blair did with the rebate. They were fast | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
and loose with it at the blink of an eye. What I am trying to point out, | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
because the phrase here was we are sending ?350 million, we don't send | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
the rebate and we send it back. We take the rebate off and then we send | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
them 13.5. The rebate is very vulnerable, as we discovered when | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
Tony Blair gave away a large section of it. It is very vulnerable to | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
change. I think it's fair that we include a figure. But we don't send | :28:08. | :28:10. | |
it. In addition to that, having not sent the rebate and sent 13.5, we | :28:11. | :28:18. | |
then get 4.4, almost ?4.5 billion back to spend in ways that will be | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
guided, sometimes dictated by the EU, but it is money that comes back. | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
Our net contribution, as you can see from the table, is 9 billion. That | :28:28. | :28:34. | |
is ?175 million each week. It is not 350 million. The reason I think it | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
is vertical about the gross contribution of ?19.3 billion a | :28:41. | :28:47. | |
year, you don't deduct the services you get from the government, you | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
don't say your tax bill is zero because of the mended potholes and | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
the streetlights and things you get. It is appropriate that we talk about | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
the 19.2 billion we send every year. But I just explained that we don't | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
send that. The actual saving, because the original quote was about | :29:07. | :29:13. | |
saving to spend elsewhere, is 175 million each week. You can say it is | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
too much, not enough, I don't want to stay in, but it's not 350 million | :29:18. | :29:24. | |
a week. 350 million on the table, some of that is highly vulnerable | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
because it is part of the rebate. I think it is right and proper we talk | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
about that. It is enough money to build a new hospital every week. It | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
would not be a saving, even out of the EU we would continue to have | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
some form of farm subsidies and forms of regional aid? We would | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
spend some of the money we currently send to Brussels for ourselves. I | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
think instead of sending 350 million each week to Brussels, we would be | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
better spending that money improving the NHS, giving a better deal to | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
farmers, maybe even tax cuts. I think it is fair we talk about ?350 | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
million we have to send every week to Brussels. People will make their | :30:01. | :30:02. | |
minds up on that. Let's move onto another issue. Nigel | :30:03. | :30:14. | |
Farage has said 75% of UK law is made in Brussels. Do you with that? | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
I asked the Parliamentary authorities when I first became an | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
MP and they were not able to tell me. Some claim it is as little as | :30:24. | :30:34. | |
15%, on our side some claim 70%. The German legislature in Berlin have a | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
figure of 80%. Do you agree with the 75% figure? It is probably about | :30:40. | :30:47. | |
right. What is the source? The question was talking about the | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
amount of legislation that is emanating from member state versus | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
that coming from Brussels. What is the source of the 75% figure? You | :30:56. | :31:03. | |
just cited Nigel. He is not a source, he is a messenger. We have | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
looked carefully at the research, we can find no credible study. Even by | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
pro-Brexit groups that puts the figure at 75%. I have seen studies | :31:15. | :31:25. | |
that show 25%, but I can find nothing that gives me 75%. I don't | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
think this morning you can help on that. I have raised questions in | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
Parliament and I am happy to forward on the answers I have got, but there | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
is a question raised... The German parliament has produced a figure of | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
80 something. For the German parliament. Talking about the ratio | :31:45. | :31:55. | |
coming from Brussels. Vote Leave says if we Vote Leave we can take | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
back control of our immigration policy. No country has full access | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
to the single market without first agreeing to the free movement of | :32:04. | :32:17. | |
people. As you demonstrated earlier this week when you quizzed Matthew | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
Hancock, you can have free trade from Iceland to Ireland to Russia, | :32:22. | :32:29. | |
so you can leave the EU and have tariff free access. Canada have | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
recently negotiated a deal to give them free market access. The | :32:34. | :32:43. | |
Canadian deal includes tariffs, even tariffs on some manufacture | :32:44. | :32:51. | |
products, it includes tariffs on products and does not include | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
anything to do with services and we are 80% service economy. But we | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
would benefit, as a service economy. But we would benefit, as every | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
country in Europe does apart from Belarus, for tariff free access. But | :33:03. | :33:10. | |
how do you know that? The Council of the European Union is unequivocal. | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
Two years ago, the internal market and its freedoms, one of which is | :33:17. | :33:19. | |
freedom of movement, are indivisible, you cannot have one | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
without the other. We know that last year we had a trade deficit with the | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
other EU member states, about 60 billion. The idea they would | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
introduce tariffs seems to me absurd. On the point of regulation, | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
sometimes it is said we need to be part of the single market for | :33:38. | :33:47. | |
regulatory reasons, but in many ways it is possible to have market access | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
from a regulatory perspective without being part of the single | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
market. If you are selling into Europe you have got to meet Europe's | :33:57. | :34:03. | |
regulations... But do I take it that you are indicating that if we leave, | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
we would not seek total access to the single market as we have at the | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
moment? We would seek instead of free trade agreement which is less | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
than a single market? We would see access to the single market but we | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
would not want to be bound up. We would not initially seek full access | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
to the single market? I think if we had tariff free access and wouldn't | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
have regulatory obstacles put in our way, it would be free access. But | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
the trade agreements you have specified, particularly the one with | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
Canada, it is not a single market agreement, it includes tariffs, it | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
includes... It does not include services. Look at Switzerland for | :34:51. | :34:58. | |
example. Switzerland at the moment has 4.5 times trade ahead the EU | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
from outside of the single market than we manage from within. But it | :35:04. | :35:10. | |
does not have full access for its services. You accept that a free | :35:11. | :35:22. | |
trade agreement... They have also moved huge chunks of their financial | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
services to London so that they are inside the EU and can trade. Another | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
confidence within the City of London. On Friday Suzanne Evans and | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
your fellow Vote Leave supporters were sacked from their roles as UK | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
speakers. Miss Evans has now been sacked twice, are you next for the | :35:43. | :35:49. | |
job? Suzanne Evans is brilliant at this sort of stuff, we will hear a | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
lot more from her. Are you next for the chop? Nigel described me as | :35:55. | :36:00. | |
irrelevant, I have been called far worse in the elections I have | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
stored, but in four of those five Parliamentary elections are won. | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
That is the beauty of democracy. There is being a member of Vote | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
Leave, and being a Ukip MP, are these things becoming mutually | :36:17. | :36:23. | |
exclusive? Absolutely not, Vote Leave is now garnering support from | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
the political left, the political centre right, and people... So why | :36:27. | :36:35. | |
doesn't Nigel Farage? You need to address that question to him. He is | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
your leader. There are differences of opinion. There is a strategic | :36:40. | :36:47. | |
difference, I'm the think we need to win this election with an upbeat, | :36:48. | :36:55. | |
positive campaign. Your leader says you are relevant, could you not | :36:56. | :36:58. | |
resign the whip and become an independent? It is the voters who | :36:59. | :37:05. | |
decide who is and who isn't relevant. Thank you for joining us. | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
If you want more facts about the EU relevant. Thank you for joining us. | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
referendum, you can check the BBC News website. It is excellent. | :37:17. | :37:17. | |
It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :37:18. | :37:20. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. | :37:27. | :37:28. | |
Coming up on the programme: Ruth Davidson aims to overtake | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
Is she a safe pair of hands or could she drop the ball? | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
Labour's Ian Murray is in Canada to learn how the Liberals achieved | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
a landslide victory from third place. | :37:45. | :37:45. | |
With the elections taking place in May, has he left it too late? | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
What do the SNP and Labour have in common? | :37:52. | :37:53. | |
They're both taking advice from the anti-austerity | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
Nobel Prize-winning economist, Professor Joseph Stiglitz. | :37:58. | :37:59. | |
Sunday Politics went along to his latest event. | :38:00. | :38:06. | |
Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson needs Labour votes | :38:07. | :38:08. | |
if she's to secure her aim of making the Tories the opposition | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
after May's Scottish Parliament election. | :38:12. | :38:13. | |
One way she believes she can do that is by protecting public | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
spending on the NHS and education and by rowing back on her previous | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
pledge to use Holyrood's new powers to cut taxes. | :38:23. | :38:24. | |
At the party's Spring conference at Murrayfield on Friday, | :38:25. | :38:26. | |
she argued that cuts to taxes were too short-term. | :38:27. | :38:28. | |
We sent our reporter Andrew Black along to find out what else | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
Welcome to Murrayfield. Home of Scottish rugby and this week, home | :38:32. | :38:58. | |
to the lunch of team Conservatives campaigned for the Scottish | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
election. With things not looking great for labour Right now, the plan | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
for the Tories is to emerge from the political scrum in second place, | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
becoming the official opposition at Holyrood. But that could be a | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
tougher challenge, so how do they go about it? Well, firstly, with a few | :39:14. | :39:20. | |
changes to the squad. As a fan as a bid farewell to the many veteran | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
Tory MSP is standing down to make way for fresh talent, team captain | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
David Cameron turned up to do the pep talk. Let drape ourselves in red | :39:29. | :39:37. | |
white and blue. Let us do more great things and get out over the next 62 | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
days and a winner for. Thank you! But image and rhetoric are only part | :39:43. | :39:49. | |
of it. The Conservatives will need actual policies that people will | :39:50. | :39:52. | |
vote for and new powers coming to Holyrood means that for the first | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
time, the Conservatives can campaign on one of their favourite issues, | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
cutting tax. Although Ruth Davidson has now decided that is not an | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
immediate option. We can cut tax in Scotland, but over the medium term | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
and our manifesto will show how. But if we're going to cut tax rates in | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
Scotland, I believe that we as a nation need to earn it first. And | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
the truth is, we haven't done that yet. So if cutting tax turns out to | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
be a problem, do the Conservatives reckon that their overall strategy | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
can a winner? Yes, we would like to see a Scottish Conservatives become | :40:33. | :40:34. | |
the official opposition in Scotland, because we need the SNP Government | :40:35. | :40:51. | |
to be held to account and be a real political alternative advocated. | :40:52. | :40:53. | |
This comes after nine years of the Labour Party and six different | :40:54. | :40:55. | |
leaders, all of whom have failed to offer that different vision. | :40:56. | :40:57. | |
However, one expert who specialises in the ups and downs of the Scottish | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
Tories is sceptical. There do seem to have been broader trends and | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
movements was the Conservatives late last year, but it is difficult and | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
if there were to match them, that would be 18 NMS peas and that | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
whatever back to 1989. So depends on how badly Labour does as much as how | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
good of the conservatives do. And another issue, Europe has split the | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
Tories, but those who want Britain to leave the EU, said that splits | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
doesn't have to last. We can still be the Government after the | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
referendum. How easy or difficult it is to come together after that | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
referendum is largely dependent on how well we treat one another in the | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
run-up to that referendum. I think at all points we should recognise we | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
have a difference of opinion and treat those differences with | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
tolerance and respect. And the Scottish secretary who wants Britain | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
to stay in argued the forthcoming referendum would not overshadow | :41:50. | :42:01. | |
the May election. The EU referendum is a big issue. I don't think it | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
will be the dominant issue in Scotland over the next few months, I | :42:06. | :42:07. | |
think it will be the Scottish parliament elections. I think they | :42:08. | :42:10. | |
will be at the forefront. I think the referendum campaign here in | :42:11. | :42:12. | |
Scotland will really kicked off on the 6th of May. And, as the Scottish | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
Conservatives focus on that election, can they kick for | :42:17. | :42:22. | |
Holyrood's cup glory all voters send them to the sin bin? | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
Joining me now is the leader of the Scottish Conservatives, | :42:26. | :42:27. | |
Never have more rugby plans being made in a package for a political | :42:28. | :42:38. | |
programme! We will take that as a compliment. Let us talk about tax. | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
You say you don't want to cut income tax, initially. But it is still your | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
longer-term view that you want to take advantage of the new devolution | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
powers to cut tax? Firstly, we will try and protect pay packets. We | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
already have the Labour Party and the Lib Dems they will increase tax | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
and push the SNP in the same way. We say that is not a good idea, we do | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
not want Scotland to be the highest taxed part of the UK. But in order | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
to have them in future, we have to earn it. That means growing our tax | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
base, printing more money in so that if we were half to cut tax further | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
down the road, we would still be able to have the same contributions | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
to our health or education service that we have now. Is not just that | :43:22. | :43:28. | |
you don't want a cat 's -- cut tax now, you don't want to cut tax | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
unless the economy is growing sufficiently that you can? We have | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
at cuts in Scotland, part of the wider UK ones. We've had a tax cut | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
for every taxpayer in Scotland from raising the threshold would. That | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
will rise again next year to 12 and a half thousand pounds. There will | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
be tax cuts UK wide. But we are saying that the big commission spent | :43:52. | :43:57. | |
a year looking at this and they came back and no clear recommendation to | :43:58. | :44:00. | |
me was that Scotland should not be the highest taxed part of the UK, we | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
shouldn't tax people for living here more than if they lived in Carlisle, | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
and I agree. And tax cuts were vulnerable in future but not now if | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
we want to sustain the level of service we have. I agree with both | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
of those and we will take those regulations into the election. But | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
you think Scotland shouldn't have higher taxes than England, but you | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
don't seem to mind England having higher taxes in Scotland? That is | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
because I operate in Scotland, I believe in having competition. I | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
think it is good that in Scotland we can say we are encouraging people to | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
come here. We don't do that when we do something like the SNP did which | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
was to overnight in the last Budget doubled the large business | :44:46. | :44:52. | |
supplements. That only... It hopes to -- hits a quarter of the nurses | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
in Edinburgh and Glasgow. So you to -- hits a quarter of the nurses | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
don't mind up? What about the other eminent people who you describe came | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
up with... - most people describe them as eminence. The public policy | :45:08. | :45:14. | |
experts, you know, pretty decent people. A 30p rate is one idea they | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
came up with. Will you do that? We are looking at it. The proposal was | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
that they would jump between 20 and 40 is quite a steep jump. People | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
would agree with that. There is an opportunity from next year to start | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
changing bands in Scotland, even adding them if required and moving | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
the threshold. It is something we are looking at and I will pre-empt | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
our manifesto by Pabst telling you to make things here that is OK. | :45:46. | :45:51. | |
Except, you want folks, why not? Why not say we will adopt this, it is a | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
great idea? Well, you will see more of our tax plans, we will be | :45:57. | :45:58. | |
great idea? Well, you will see more response to the Budget in a couple | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
of weeks, so after we see the Chancellor's Budget down south, we | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
will do our response and you will also see in our manifesto... | :46:07. | :46:14. | |
Finally, what puzzles me about this, OK, don't declare for a because you | :46:15. | :46:17. | |
don't want to pre-empt your manifesto. But it would pay this | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
theoretical 30p tax? Well, the way in which the Independent Commission | :46:24. | :46:25. | |
looked at it was they were looking at instead of having the 20p rate | :46:26. | :46:32. | |
and 30p rate being at the same place, so you earn the same amount | :46:33. | :46:35. | |
of money to get to them, they would move that nobody paying more and the | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
of money to get to them, they would system. So somebody paying 20p at | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
the moment would have to pay more tax? Not if you set the band at a | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
suitable way... So at the moment it is 40 2000. You stop paying 40p. The | :46:48. | :46:54. | |
idea would be to have an extra band inserted between that and 40p. When | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
you pay 30p. But you can move up to the level where 40p was paid. That | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
is fluent. One of the great benefits, new powers coming in. It | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
allows much greater flexibility. You don't have to state the same rates | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
as anywhere else. -- stay at the same rates. But I'm still puzzled | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
because George Osborne said over a series of moves he wants to take the | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
threshold where you stop paying 40p for 42,000 up to 50,000. Is that a | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
move you are in favour of? Let us see what he does in the Budget... He | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
said he wants to do that. He said he wants to do that over time. Is that | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
a good idea? I think more people have been dragged into the higher | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
rate of tax in the last few years because thresholds have not changed. | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
The Government hasn't done much with it apart from the bottom threshold | :47:46. | :47:48. | |
which they have left to take everybody who pays income tax out of | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
taxation. But for viewers at home I think there is a clear message in | :47:53. | :47:55. | |
this election and that is Labour and Lib Dems say they will put up taxes, | :47:56. | :48:02. | |
they want the SNP to do the same... But if George Osborne is going to be | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
the threshold of 50,000, I don't see where you're 30p comes in. Let us | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
have a look at how we do the Budget. But she would have to be earning | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
more than 50,000, so a tax break for people learn about or more? There | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
was a recommendation to look at a ban between 20 and 40... But if the | :48:21. | :48:26. | |
band is 50,000, if that is they start, it would only be people | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
learning over that who would benefit from the 30p rate. That is look at | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
how we the policies and ideas. But that is a matter of simple logic. | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
Anyway, you said you want people to vote for you in the election... I | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
think those parties say that! You are saying it very strongly cuts | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
apparently the ballot paper also Ruth Davidson for a stronger | :48:52. | :48:54. | |
opposition. Wyatt Ruth Davidson rather than the Scottish | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
Conservatives? Well, the designation is rock to ballot papers, you have | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
your candidate ballot paper and your party ballot paper. The name of your | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
party must be at the top of that and then you get a number of words you | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
can say underneath. So for example, the SNMP... But we want to know why | :49:13. | :49:20. | |
it is it Ruth Davidson? Because, we expect to do a job for you. We are | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
seeing clearly to people if you vote for us we will do a specific job... | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
But implication is that you think you are more popular than your | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
party. Well, the party name is at the top, and we know the SNP have | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
registered for different dosing nations all of which are Nicola's | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
name in it. They are clearly wanting to make it presidential style. I am | :49:42. | :49:44. | |
saying not only will our party stand up against a second referendum and | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
stand up to protect your paycheque and stand up to put the Scottish | :49:50. | :49:52. | |
Government under pressure, but I will go toe to toe with Nicola | :49:53. | :49:55. | |
Sturgeon and beyond voice in Scottish Parliament. There's been | :49:56. | :49:58. | |
all sorts of talk about the Tories becoming the main opposition party | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
in Scotland, it was echoed by David Cameron on Friday. Is that what you | :50:05. | :50:05. | |
want? Actually what I want is to become | :50:06. | :50:16. | |
First Minister. In the real world is that what you want? What we want to | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
do is make sure there is a Scottish Government... But can you be in | :50:21. | :50:26. | |
opposition? It is entirely up to the voters, that is not for you to | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
decide on the back of the people out here. I think we will agree we are | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
headed for our best ever result in the Scottish parliament, more seats | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
than ever before. I think we can all agree the Labour Party is about to | :50:40. | :50:42. | |
have its worst ever result. We can overtake them if the people of | :50:43. | :50:48. | |
Scotland wish it and vote for an absolutely. We will take it as read | :50:49. | :50:51. | |
you only get the number of votes people actually cast. What I am | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
asking you as leader of the Scottish Tories, do you realistically think | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
you can overtake the Labour Party in this election? I think we can, that | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
is what we are working towards. Might real ambition is for the | :51:07. | :51:09. | |
Scottish Conservatives to be in government in Scotland. The opinion | :51:10. | :51:13. | |
polls show you quite a long way from this. The opinion polls showed David | :51:14. | :51:17. | |
polls show you quite a long way from Cameron could never get a majority, | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
it is amazing how voters get the last word in these things. I find | :51:22. | :51:28. | |
your point about the polls but you are kind of hanging you hat on this | :51:29. | :51:30. | |
idea of becoming the main opposition are kind of hanging you hat on this | :51:31. | :51:32. | |
party when that is what evidence that you can. We are going to have | :51:33. | :51:41. | |
the best election. I have told my activists, my candidates, my staff, | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
I want us to have the best election we have ever had, more votes, more | :51:46. | :51:52. | |
seats than ever. If you don't become the second party, if you don't | :51:53. | :51:54. | |
seats than ever. If you don't become overtake Labour and the polls at the | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
moment are indicating you want, does that leave you exposed? I don't | :51:59. | :52:00. | |
moment are indicating you want, does think anyone has ever been upgrading | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
politics with showing ambition for the party. Many people have been | :52:06. | :52:12. | |
upgraded from politics for showing promises and not keeping them. Would | :52:13. | :52:19. | |
you stay on? We will hold the government to account. I don't think | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
anyone in the would see the Labour Party has landed a glove on the SNP | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
in recent years. Something in Scotland needs to change. If the | :52:28. | :52:33. | |
voters don't change they should consider changing the opposition. | :52:34. | :52:38. | |
You fell at the general election last year. If you do not become the | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
main opposition party will you stay on? Absolutely, I am the reader of | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
this party until they decide not to have me. There is a mechanism to get | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
rid of leaders and we have never had a problem with that in the past. We | :52:53. | :52:54. | |
rid of leaders and we have never had have a united team going into this | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
opposition election with our tails up. We are on course to hit it and | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
have a view job to do in Parliament to hold the SNP to account. You have | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
become quite popular in the Conservative Party, I don't want to | :53:09. | :53:13. | |
flatter you too much, not just here but in England, would you ever | :53:14. | :53:15. | |
considered giving up your position and going and fighting a seat in | :53:16. | :53:20. | |
England for the Conservatives? Absolutely not, I have lived and | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
worked in Scotland all my life. I will fight seats in Scotland in any | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
kind of election. I will never go to England for a seat not least because | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
my partner has no wish to live in England and I have no wish to live | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
in England, I want to stay living and working in Scotland, it is my | :53:39. | :53:40. | |
in England, I want to stay living home. I am disappointed. I will tell | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
you why. I am disappointed because I was going to ask you to do a David | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
Cameron and practice an English accent. You can still do it if you | :53:52. | :53:54. | |
like. I am better at American accents than English ones but I | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
would do my best reviewed. We will leave that well alone. | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
Last October, Justin Trudeau's Liberal party came from third place | :54:02. | :54:03. | |
to secure a landslide win in the Canadian elections. | :54:04. | :54:05. | |
Scottish Labour thinks it's got something to learn from that | :54:06. | :54:07. | |
experience and this week the Shadow Scottish Secretary Ian Murray | :54:08. | :54:10. | |
is visiting Quebec, Ottawa and Montreal to find out how | :54:11. | :54:13. | |
He's able to join us now via the wonder of the internet. | :54:14. | :54:22. | |
I better say can you hear me, Ian Murray? I can hear you perfectly, | :54:23. | :54:29. | |
I better say can you hear me, Ian good morning. You find a party which | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
has come third place in an election which is where Ruth Davidson has | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
just been saying she wants to picture in the Scottish elections in | :54:38. | :54:42. | |
which she has come back to win. As ugly that is the main reason for you | :54:43. | :54:45. | |
been there? I am here for two reasons. The first is the Scotland | :54:46. | :54:50. | |
Bill and fiscal framework are now almost through the Parliamentary | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
process which makes Scotland one of the most powerful devolved | :54:56. | :54:57. | |
parliaments in the world. One of these and I knew this to see how we | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
can eat demolition work better for Scotland. That is incredibly | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
important and you have seen the provincial governments and national | :55:08. | :55:10. | |
government here in Canada or having to work with federal government much | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
more efficiently because no longer can buy: the Scottish Government | :55:14. | :55:17. | |
work in the way they have in doing over many years. In your | :55:18. | :55:20. | |
introduction it said it is to look at the Liberal party and what they | :55:21. | :55:23. | |
did to win the election and what they did do is offer a real change | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
and I think what you have just seen from Ruth Davidson and the Scottish | :55:28. | :55:32. | |
Government is all these wonderful new hours are coming to Scotland and | :55:33. | :55:35. | |
they want the status quo collection by not using them. We want real | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
change now and we are offering that new change to Scotland and that is | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
very much what the Liberal party did here in Canada last year in a probe. | :55:44. | :55:48. | |
It has been a long way back for the Liberals yet have two be said. The | :55:49. | :55:54. | |
May election in Scotland is a bit short-term view, is one of the | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
election lessons you are burning in Canada is you have truly down | :55:59. | :56:01. | |
benchmarks which might not benefit you immediately but perhaps will the | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
medium term? This is not a new process. We had a dreadful election | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
back in May last year when we lost all but one of our Labour MPs in | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
Scotland. This is an ongoing process and it is quite right to look at | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
what people are wanting in Scotland, it is quite right to put forward a | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
very positive policy platform and that is what Justin Trudeau did here | :56:23. | :56:27. | |
in Canada. He said to the needy and people no longer can we stick with | :56:28. | :56:30. | |
the status quo. We have the Conservatives in Scotland say we can | :56:31. | :56:36. | |
do nothing with the new powers and the Scottish Labour Party are | :56:37. | :56:38. | |
offering that real change, offering the Scottish Labour Party are | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
that real change now and it will be up to the voters to decide if we | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
want a change. These powers are substantial, it transforms the | :56:47. | :56:49. | |
Scottish Parliament very much, as powerful as the provinces here in | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
Canada and we should be embracing that change, embracing those powers | :56:55. | :56:58. | |
and doing everything we possibly can to transform the lives of ordinary | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
Scots. Apart from the lesson not being positive, you could have | :57:04. | :57:06. | |
speared the money for the flight because you could have learned that | :57:07. | :57:09. | |
year, is there anything the Liberals did in terms of specific policy that | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
won the people of Canada around and indeed the people of Cuba get around | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
and that you could imitate here? Daesh WebEx. Let me give you one of | :57:20. | :57:25. | |
those differences happening at the moment. Heavier Dugdale said when | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
given the choices of using the powers of the Scottish parliament | :57:31. | :57:33. | |
she will use those powers by increasing the income tax rate high | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
1p by being able to put that straight into local authority | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
education. That is a great difference from the Conservatives | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
who have decided to do nothing with these powers after negotiating them | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
time and and the SNP URL government have decided to new nothing about | :57:50. | :57:56. | |
them. In Canada last Probert was distinct policy changes were given | :57:57. | :57:58. | |
as well and that is one example where the busy real clear blue water | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
between the Scottish Labour Party going into this election and the | :58:04. | :58:06. | |
other parties and what they are offering. I presume something else | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
you're looking at an queue back the have come from the situation where | :58:11. | :58:17. | |
one party came closer to winning and referendum than the SNP did in | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
Scotland but the party is no longer in power and in fact is not that | :58:22. | :58:27. | |
influential at the moment incubate. Do you see any lessons for Labour as | :58:28. | :58:34. | |
for what has happened to that party in Canada? I did not catch all of | :58:35. | :58:41. | |
your question and the line drop out ever so slightly but what I do not | :58:42. | :58:46. | |
want to do is look at this place so closely as to what is happening in | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
Scotland. The reason we have come to this place is because they have had | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
the referendum on independence. We have plenty to learn from what | :58:55. | :59:01. | |
happened here in Quebec but what they have done and the message has | :59:02. | :59:04. | |
been very clear to me over the last few days when I have been here in | :59:05. | :59:10. | |
Quebec is the need to move on to the lashes of real people's lives which | :59:11. | :59:16. | |
is using powers we have got. It is about jobs, growth, education and | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
public services. We had to meet them from talking about the constitution | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
to talking about how we use the substantial powers in the Scottish | :59:25. | :59:27. | |
Parliament to make the lives of people better and that is the key | :59:28. | :59:32. | |
message of what we learned in Quebec last week. You have talked about | :59:33. | :59:38. | |
intergovernmental relations the difference now between Quebec and | :59:39. | :59:44. | |
Canada is because the Liberals are in power in both it is presumably a | :59:45. | :59:48. | |
fairly smooth relationship and that is not necessarily the case here. We | :59:49. | :59:54. | |
have to build some of those infrastructure issues together. The | :59:55. | :59:58. | |
Smith agreement said quite clearly the group that need to talk about | :59:59. | :00:04. | |
finance should be either up, we need independent scrutiny of the UK | :00:05. | :00:07. | |
finances through the office of argued responsibility which is what | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
we get and we need a Scottish office budget responsibility and we need an | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
assessment of the Scottish economy, what is happening with Scottish | :00:17. | :00:18. | |
taxes and growth. These what is happening with Scottish | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
intergovernmental relations are what is happening with Scottish | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
important because of issues around welfare, tax work in the context of | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
a very strong parliament within the United Kingdom we need governments | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
to work together and that is why we need some institutional | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
infrastructure in place to be able to do that to make sure they can | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
work together to make these powers work otherwise it will be a stand of | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
light we have seen in the fiscal framework where both parties where | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
blaming each other for something that did not exist and ultimately | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
they came to a deal at the 11th hour. It is important to make sure | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
these infrastructures are in place for the benefit of Scots, not the | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
government but for the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish people. | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
We will have to leave it the. Thank you very much. You are jumping about | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
a bit and we got some inter-web warnings coming up on the screen but | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
otherwise it seemed to work well. Thank you. Thank you. | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
The Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell continued his series of public | :01:20. | :01:21. | |
He's being joined around the country by experts including the former | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
finance minister of Greece, Yanis Varoufakis, and the journalist | :01:26. | :01:27. | |
This week he shared a stage with the Nobel Prize-winning | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
economist Professor Joseph Stiglitz, who will also advise the party | :01:32. | :01:33. | |
It's a role he's already occupied for the Scottish Government | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
Our Westminster correspondent Nick Eardley went to listen | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
Professor Joseph Stiglitz is one of Labour's new Council of advisers. A | :01:41. | :01:50. | |
team of experts that will help form the parties economic direction. He | :01:51. | :02:04. | |
welcomes the idea that the problems of the 80s have field. It would | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
incentivise people to work harder, to invest more and if we liberalise | :02:10. | :02:16. | |
the economy we would open up the space for people to do more and the | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
combination of liberalisation and accept of eyes Asian over tax breaks | :02:23. | :02:30. | |
would unleash a new economic growth, well, it hasn't turned out that way. | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
We now have a third of a century of this experiment on both sides of the | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
Atlantic so we are not making a judgment on the basis of one or two | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
macro years, we are making a judgment on the basis of a third of | :02:42. | :02:48. | |
a century and what we can say after a third of the century is that it | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
has failed. The bottom 90% of Americans have seen no increase in | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
their income. No significant increases in the income. All the | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
increase has gone to the top 10%. The economists litres work focuses | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
on how to change the economic model, things like taxes and relegation. It | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
is a widening gap between the rich and were. There has been enormous | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
growth in inequality. The reason inequality has risen to the top of | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
the political agenda in the United inequality has risen to the top of | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
States, UK and many other countries is a simple one, a keepsake growing. | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
The professor believes extreme inequality undermines it quality and | :03:32. | :03:40. | |
slows economic growth. One penitential remedy is dependent on | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
access and affordability. I now in the United States very, very clearly | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
that the way we find higher education is a major impediment to | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
equality. That is equality of opportunity. The average student | :03:56. | :04:03. | |
graduating has $25,000 debt. It is not income continuing debt as it is | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
in the UK so it is a real albatross around the neck. He may be a new | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
in the UK so it is a real albatross recruit to the Labour team but the | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
professor has been advising the Scottish Government for years. | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
Record the referendum he observed Scotland was charting a different | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
economic course on the rest of the UK. Does he still think it's heading | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
in the right direction? I have been very pleased with the way they have | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
continued the agenda obviously with more constraints and if they were | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
independent but with the same kind of vision in forming the policies. A | :04:37. | :04:46. | |
blend of growth but with inclusion, inclusive growth. So, one celebrity | :04:47. | :04:55. | |
economist, two macro political parties, as the election approaches | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
the claim to have lesser Stiglitz new economics may be the only thing | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
Labour and the SNP are happy to have in common. | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
Time to review the week and look ahead at what's coming up. | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
I'm joined by Lindsay McIntosh, who is the Scottish political editor | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
for The Times and by Observer columnist, Kevin McKenna. | :05:15. | :05:48. | |
Over the next few months we can demonstrate Scotland can be a better | :05:49. | :05:57. | |
society. We need older Holyrood. We have been shown how we can push the | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
Scottish Government beyond its safe comfort zone and adopt the policy | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
Scotland are really needs. Lindsay, the Greens. There was an expectation | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
that they were going to do tremendously well. Is that still | :06:12. | :06:13. | |
there? They could do pretty well at tremendously well. Is that still | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
this time. If you look at their membership since the referendum when | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
they supported a yes vote in 2014, membership soared, donations soared | :06:24. | :06:24. | |
and they hired more staff and are membership soared, donations soared | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
looking much more like a professional organisation than ever | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
before. I think the picture Patrick Harvie is making it much -- clip is | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
interesting, he's doing a similar thing to what Ruth Davidson was | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
doing girly. He is saying if you vote for us in the regions, we | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
control the SNP Government, which we're pretty sure we will get, more | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
in the direction you want. So on a fracking and land reform, some of | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
you SNP membership is unhappy with that party's position. He is going | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
for the second voters think they will make the SNP more accountable. | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
The danger for the Greens, presumably,, I mean, if we accessed | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
The danger for the Greens, the SNMP can win a lot of | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
constituency seats, the competition for the regional seats will be | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
ferocious. Could the Greens end up being squeezed? That will always be | :07:18. | :07:26. | |
the danger and threat to a party like the Greens. It will be | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
competitors for the second votes this time around. Lindsay made a | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
good point about the increase in sharpness of the green's | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
organisation and the people that they are hiring. One of the people | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
who will be standing is and Wightman, the land reformer. -- Andy | :07:44. | :07:51. | |
Wightman. Previously, I found it difficult to take the Greens | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
seriously. To me, they will either political equivalent of vanity | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
publishing. But when I saw Andy Wightman talking in the week and saw | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
he was standing several months Wightman talking in the week and saw | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
to me, and I think to others on the left, he gave the green is a new | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
credibility and then Patrick Harvie is wise to talk about land reform, | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
because the SNP week there and the vulnerable even among the older | :08:17. | :08:25. | |
members. -- Art weak in that way. As she kept emphasising, it is up to | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
the voters. But it is a slightly high risk strategy isn't it? I think | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
so. She has made two pledges on her expectations and one is to overtake | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
Labour and the other is to return at the highest number of seats the | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
Tories have ever had in Scotland. If I were in her party, I would be | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
concerned she was making a bid for the hostage fortune, because their | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
share dropped at the general election. Although we are seeing | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
them arising in some polls, it is very sporadic, these green shoots. I | :08:58. | :09:05. | |
mean, the last poll had them on 13% and Labour on 21. On the summer they | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
have been neck and neck. Can you see them making a big breakthrough this | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
time? I can not really. I know they are hammering this line about the | :09:15. | :09:16. | |
Conservatives in Scotland in the last readout of the union because | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
Labour and the Lib Dems will be giving their members and their MSP | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
is a free vote if there is another referendum. I think there is only so | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
far you can go with that and I think that will distance them and if she | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
is taking that as the main difference or the main reason why | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
people ought to think of them as a second party, it is not going to | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
work, it is not enough. I think you can see the logic for why Scots | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
would vote for it at the moment given they are the centre-right | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
option and the one and not standing on tax-raising platforms. They have | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
a charismatic, young, feisty leader who can appeal to parts of | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
demographics of Scotland that the young -- Tories in Scotland haven't | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
done in the past. It's a logical argument, but I'm not convinced it | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
will come to fruition in May. On the other hand, on the daylight | :10:10. | :10:10. | |
Leicester City in the Premier other hand, on the daylight | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
League? Leicester will not necessarily be at the top of the | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
Premier League very often, and the teams around them are not likely to | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
be quite as rubbish quite so often. So don't you just throw everything | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
at it? Well, Leicester went five points clear last night after | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
beating Watford. And it is only March and there are only a couple of | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
months left in that. I think that you listen to Ruth talking about | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
spreading the tax base, that makes sense if you are on the right. But | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
she has questions to answer as to why the party a few months ago, | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
needed more taxpayers, why they sat needed more taxpayers, why they sat | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
-- set their face against giving graduates from overseas remain to | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
leave outside the EU with the skills and the possibility of working and | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
contributing. Can we talk about one story in the papers this morning, | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
from the Scotland On Sunday, Independence fears and tax policies | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
hit property investment. This is commercial property. What I found | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
interesting about this is it said there was no evidence that the | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
uncertainty over Scotland's future is having any impact on the economy. | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
This is commercial property people saying no, the market is going up in | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
England and down in Scotland. That may be nothing to do with | :11:33. | :11:34. | |
independence, but they are claiming it is. It was not just the | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
uncertainty of independence, again, it is a favoured refrain of the | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
right and of the business classes, I think they are also flowing into the | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
mix uncertainty over Britain's future in Europe. But Europe or not | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
a slow right the commercial property market is doing better in England | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
and Scotland. It may explain why it said market in Britain is...? I | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
think in Scotland there are different demographics. We don't | :12:05. | :12:06. | |
think in Scotland there are have as many taxpayers or | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
businesses. But Lindsay, that necessarily wouldn't explain... If | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
they are right there is an independent effect, that is slightly | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
disturbing, isn't it? It is, but they are not just talking about | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
independence, but tax policies here and changes to property tax that we | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
have. We know from the residential side of things that property experts | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
have been warning that the top end of the market is not shifting and | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
there is this trickle down negative effect and that is, combines with | :12:39. | :12:40. | |
the constitutional issue is what is being talked about in that piece. | :12:41. | :12:47. | |
You are becoming a grumpy old man, an shoe? In fact, you are supposed | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
to have taken a cocktail of, what was, Monster? What is that, energy | :12:53. | :13:01. | |
joint? I don't know! It was another of these drinks that... The point is | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
you fed up of the Scottish Government trying to ban things. It | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
is not just the Government, but the political classes want to ban things | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
form the working classes. Give them more housing, pay them more money, | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
give them jobs and stop fiddling with what they eat and drink. The | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
latest was rugby tackling in school. Yes, doctors last week said they | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
wanted to ban all tackling in school rugby. Some may say there was a | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
successful pilot scheme 20 years ago in the senior team banning tackling. | :13:36. | :13:42. | |
Are you as grumpy at as he is? I'm certainly not on Monster and | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
Buckfast! He is right that things need to be done at local community | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
level... That is all from us this week. I will be back next week, | :13:52. | :13:53. | |
goodbye. | :13:54. | :13:58. |