Browse content similar to 08/05/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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A thumping big win for Labour over the Conservatives in London - | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
but what do Thursday's less impressive results across | :00:43. | :00:44. | |
the country mean for Jeremy Corbyn's chances of getting to Number 10? | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
We'll hear from both sides of the debate | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
Here's one Tory riding high at least. | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson has managed to take | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
the party once thought of as too toxic for Scotland | :00:59. | :01:00. | |
And with the elections now over, it's back to the biggest political | :01:01. | :01:08. | |
The Cabinet's heavyweights have been trading blows | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
Coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland... | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
third term in office, but falls short of an | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
We'll be speaking to Nicola Sturgeon live. | :01:21. | :01:34. | |
giving media interviews this morning, I'm joined in the studio | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
by the aristocracy, the upper crust, the royalty | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
Tom Newton-Dunn, Julia Hartley-Brewer and Steve Richards. | :01:42. | :01:48. | |
We're going to have a whip round after the show | :01:49. | :01:50. | |
and get Steve a double-barrelled surname too. | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
demonstration of modern democracy in the United Kingdom. | :01:54. | :02:07. | |
There was good and bad for almost every political party | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
across the nations and regions, and that's meant a feast | :02:11. | :02:12. | |
of spinning, analysis, claim and counter-claim. | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
Well today with almost all of the results now in - | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
although we're still waiting for a few police and crime | :02:17. | :02:18. | |
commissioners and one English council - we're going to try | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
First here's Adam with his behind-the-scenes look at how | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
It's election night, and my chance to annoy the big | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
And this is the most depressing bit. | :02:31. | :02:38. | |
Are you expecting to get a bit of a headache? | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
It's a two day extravaganza of results. | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
Will Jeremy Corbyn be staying up all night tonight? | :02:50. | :02:51. | |
Jeremy doesn't go to bed on nights like this! | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
We're old mates, we've been together 30 years on these different things | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
So you're both proper election night geeks? | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
The Labour telly addicts watched their party lose one council | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
and a handful of councillors in England, not a lot, | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
but not amazing either, as even Jeremy Corbyn admitted. | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
We were getting predictions that Labour was going to lose councils, | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
Although he celebrated winning two by-elections in pretty | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
This is the first time I've ever had a desk at one of these things. | :03:25. | :03:33. | |
The SNP got close to a majority in the Scottish Parliament, | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
It is a vote of confidence in the record in government | :03:40. | :03:51. | |
of the SNP, and it is a vote of trust in the SNP to lead | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
Davidson, Ruth - Scottish and Conservative and Unionist... | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
The biggest smile belongs to Ruth Davidson, leader | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
of the Scottish Tories, who displaced Labour to become | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
Have you been looking in the results in Scotland than just going whoa? | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
Even if you look at some of the seats... | :04:17. | :04:25. | |
We've just seen a few come through, the SNP have hold of one, but, | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
actually, with huge swings from the SNP to the Conservatives. | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
In Wales Ukip won their first seats on the Assembly, | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
meaning a comeback for the former Tory MP Neil Hamilton, | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
who managed to offend one Welshman within seconds. | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
I'm thoroughly Welsh through and through, | :04:42. | :04:42. | |
Here were are in virtually your hometown of Llanelli. | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
Just one correction, Neil, of course it's not | :04:47. | :04:48. | |
virtually my hometown - it is my hometown. | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
So let's be very accurate about that, shall we? | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
By lunchtime on Friday, us media types had realised that | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
nothing especially dramatic had happened, so we all hotfooted | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
it to City Hall to see Labour's Sadiq Khan elected | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
Though most of the chat among the hacks in the press room | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
was about the campaign run by his Tory rival, Zac Goldsmith, | :05:13. | :05:20. | |
which was described as mean and divisive. | :05:21. | :05:22. | |
I personally never went near central office in either | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
of my campaigns, and I don't think Boris Johnson did either. | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
Is that because they're not very good? | :05:31. | :05:31. | |
That's because you are the candidates, it is | :05:32. | :05:33. | |
your campaign and you should run it your way. | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
And Labour nabbed another mayor, in Bristol, taking over | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
The results from other campaigns around the UK are still | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
It's not been super exciting, but we have got a nice view | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
So with almost all the counting and number crunching across England, | :05:53. | :06:03. | |
Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland now finished, let's take a look | :06:04. | :06:05. | |
The SNP won the Scottish election, and will be the largest party | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
But Nicola Sturgeon's party fell two short of a majority, and will govern | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
Ruth Davidson's Conservatives overtook Labour to become the second | :06:19. | :06:27. | |
Scottish Labour were pushed into 3rd place - | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
with 24 seats, down 13 from the last Holyrood election. | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
Labour remains the dominant party in Wales, winning 29 | :06:35. | :06:36. | |
And Leanne Wood's Plaid Cymru pipped the Conservatives 12 to 11 to become | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
taking 7 seats in Wales - the first time they've sat | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
In Northern Ireland, the DUP will once again | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
They won 38 seats, with the next biggest party Sinn Fein on 28. | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
Results in the English councils were seen as a major test | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
And the party had a mixed night, winning the most councils - | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
but losing 23 councillors since the last elections in 2012. | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
There were two Westminster by-elections - with Labour | :07:14. | :07:15. | |
holding the seats of Sheffield Brightside and Ogmore. | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
And the Labour party won in London too - | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
where Sadiq Khan beat Zac Goldsmith to the mayoralty, | :07:23. | :07:24. | |
winning 57% of the vote on first preferences, to Goldsmith's 43%. | :07:25. | :07:33. | |
The Green Party came third in the London elections - | :07:34. | :07:35. | |
with their highest vote tally yet in the capital. | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
Finally, voters in 40 police forces in England and Wales | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
elected their new Police and Crime Commissioner. | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
With the Tories and Labour triumphing over independents. | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
With 36 of the 40 election results having declared, the Tories have won | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
What does this mean, in the round, for Labour? It is the worst possible | :07:56. | :08:13. | |
result for Labour, because it isn't good enough, and it isn't bad | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
enough, which is the worst-case scenario for anyone who wants Labour | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
to win in 2020. This is concerning the likes of Jeremy Corbyn and John | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
McDonnell, but it is the point of being a political party, winning | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
elections. Is it the worst of both worlds because they didn't do badly | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
enough? To justify ousting Corbyn, but they didn't do well enough to | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
suggest that Corbyn's people were right, and there was a groundswell | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
of opinion moving to the far left. We saw the message coming out from | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
the deputy leader on Friday morning, stand-down everyone, not yet. Do you | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
agree? No. Even if these results had been much worse, as many expected it | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
would be in the media and beyond, it still wouldn't have been the mood | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
now. It is all being played out in public. Tom Watson, the deputy | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
leader, gave an interview on Friday where he called ambiguously for | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
patients. What he meant was, it is far too early to remove a leader who | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
got an overwhelming mandate nine months ago in September. And he's | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
right about that. You can't do it if the party membership overwhelmingly | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
backs the leader. But what he meant by patients was, you don't have to | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
translate it, there is a time-limit to this. Jeremy Corbyn needs more | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
time to show he can put together a winning formula. If he fails in | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
that, at some point, there will be he and others who will trigger some | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
kind of challenge. So he's on a leasehold? Yes. He's not doing well | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
enough to suggest he will win the next election. I don't agree with | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
Julia that people are indifferent about winning elections. But party | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
members who voted for Jeremy Corbyn are absolutely different to winning | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
elections. I don't know. I assume that people who go out knocking on | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
doors want to win. Sadiq Khan. That was the big result for Labour, and | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
he won very comfortably. He won very strongly in the GLA as well. The | :10:20. | :10:27. | |
Tories did very badly. We have this strange situation where, despite | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
Sadiq Khan being the poster boy for the night, he still hasn't met | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
Jeremy Corbyn. Is Mr Khan going to be an alternative Labour Party based | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
around London City Hall? He tells us he's going to meet Jeremy Corbyn | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
tomorrow. Corbyn said they were going to meet today. It is a real | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
problem for Jeremy now because he is up against someone else with their | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
own mandate, an enormous one. 1.3 million Londoners, together with | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
their second preferences. A huge number. I think Sadiq Khan will use | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
that to be the mouthpiece of the moderates, the soft left. I would | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
suggest that if we were not looking at this through the prism of what it | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
means for Mr Corbyn, we may be pointing out that the Tories didn't | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
have a great night. They lost seats in England and Wales, they lost | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
London and their share of the vote in London is now under 30%. They | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
only got eight seats on the Greater London assembly. They are in their | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
worst position since 2004, which was the second time we had a London | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
election. It isn't brilliant for them. They would save the first year | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
in government, do get this kind of reaction. Or worse ones. At what is | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
overlooked in all this is that the last Labour government's post-97 | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
devolution proposals has transformed UK politics. In Scotland, the | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
Conservatives are thrilled because they came second, but that wasn't | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
about David Cameron, it was about Ruth Davidson, their leader there. | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
In London, when people voted for Sadiq Khan, they were not thinking | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
about Jeremy Corbyn. They were voting for him. Unintentionally, | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
those devolution proposals have transformed UK politics, fracturing | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
the UK parties, and will no longer allow any single party to make those | :12:22. | :12:28. | |
sort of thousand seat gains that Blair did. But the Tories shouldn't | :12:29. | :12:30. | |
be too complacent about this. It wasn't a great result. It wasn't, | :12:31. | :12:39. | |
but who would expect it? The party is an absolute disarray, the deepest | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
divisions. We have had a senior Cabinet Minister resign, criticising | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
the Prime Minister and the Chancellor. If they did well this | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
time, I would be surprised. So the Tories should have done worse? They | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
should. I would disagree with your hypothesis to begin with, because | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
they are, in some parts of this country, making remarkable progress, | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
like Scotland. They could have lost seats. We know the Ruth Davidson | :13:06. | :13:13. | |
story. If David Cameron can show his own party he's still a winner, six | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
years into government, I would suggest he is pretty safe | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
post-referendum. Well, that is our panel's verdict. | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
So the high point for the Conservatives this week | :13:26. | :13:27. | |
was undoubtedly in Scotland, where a party once known | :13:28. | :13:29. | |
as the toxic Tories has become Ruth Davidson's Conservatives, | :13:30. | :13:31. | |
replacing Labour as Scotland's second party and becoming | :13:32. | :13:33. | |
the official opposition to the SNP at Holyrood. | :13:34. | :13:35. | |
Ruth Davidson successfully positioned herself as the only | :13:36. | :13:37. | |
person capable of standing up to Nicola Sturgeon over independence | :13:38. | :13:39. | |
This morning Nicola Sturgeon says "bring it on2. | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
Well we can speak now to Ruth Davidson, she joins us | :13:44. | :13:46. | |
Good morning. Are the Scottish Conservatives now quite separate | :13:47. | :13:58. | |
from the Tories? There was no appearance in your campaign from | :13:59. | :14:06. | |
ministers in Westminster. But our campaign was launched in March? | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
Other than that, did anybody come up to campaign for you? This was not | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
about London. It is a sophisticated electorate in Scotland. People knew | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
what they were voting for. This wasn't about who would be Prime | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
Minister. This was about who would be the First Minister of Scotland, | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
and who would be the Leader of the Opposition in Scotland. I made a | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
very clear campaign of what I would do if I were to be the Leader of the | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
Opposition, how I would hold the SNP to account, how I would say no to a | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
second independence referendum, and how I would concentrate on the | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
things that matter to ordinary Scots. Let's not go over the | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
campaign again! I could probably say those lines in my sleep! In what | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
ways to you now regard yourself as distinctive and different from the | :14:59. | :14:59. | |
English Tories? Since I took over as leader I was | :15:00. | :15:09. | |
the first leader in Scotland to be the leader of the entire party in | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
Scotland. In terms of fundraising, Pelissie... What made you different? | :15:13. | :15:21. | |
You had seen me takes on different policy decisions from my colleagues | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
down south, if you compare the manifestos you will see differences, | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
for one example, the right to buy for housing association houses. We | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
don't think that is appropriate for the housing market in Scotland. How | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
colleagues did down south. There is a distinct difference that. I wonder | :15:39. | :15:45. | |
if it was a Scottish Conservative idea or not. The title was Ruth | :15:46. | :15:54. | |
Davidson, a strong opposition. It did say Scottish Conservatives twice | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
on the front cover. And multiply many times inside. In the Times, the | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
roof, the whole truth and nothing but the roof. You created a new Tory | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
brand. -- Ruth the. We don't fight just as conservatives | :16:09. | :16:19. | |
in Scotland but conservatives in the Unionist party. The echoes of the | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
Unionist party played quite loud in this election was that they were | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
looking for people who would unequivocally stand up for the | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
decision we made just 20 months ago. I think that was an area we fought | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
strongly on now we have had some success. While I recognise a win for | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
the Scottish National party, they are now in a third term of | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
government, and I congratulated the First Minister, what was really | :16:43. | :16:45. | |
significant about the result is we managed to stop them having a | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
majority. They slipped back. This idea that they didn't put a clear | :16:50. | :16:56. | |
mandate for a referendum in their manifesto, unlike in 2011, and now | :16:57. | :16:59. | |
they don't even have a majority, that takes the second referendum off | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
the table for five years and give Scotland's stability. You say a | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
second referendum is off the cards and I understand the reasons why. I | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
suggest that means unionists in the rest of the UK you would like to | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
back Brexit can now do so without the fear of the second independence | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
referendum? I argued all through this campaign irrespective of what | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
happens with a referendum on Europe, that is not trigger point for a | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
second referendum. I haven't heard anyone in the SNP argued | :17:32. | :17:34. | |
successfully if there are was a Brexit... It is important we stay | :17:35. | :17:42. | |
part of the union in which we export so many goods and services. I have | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
yet to have anyone in the SNP explain it. But I look forward in | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
the coming weeks to hear them make the argument for that. Last time the | :17:53. | :18:00. | |
SNP were a majority government the Scottish Tories gave them crucial | :18:01. | :18:03. | |
support on budget votes. Can you see us of doing that again? I think | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
times move on. The SNP is no longer led by Alex Salmond... We know that. | :18:10. | :18:17. | |
I think we will be robust. I will seek to put forward alternatives. I | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
want to be as positive as I can be, not just crudely and blocking and | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
questioning, although all of that is important. The debate we haven't had | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
in Scotland for the last five years, but I want to put forward | :18:30. | :18:32. | |
alternatives. One area I think we can make common cause is reforming | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
education, it is a disgrace our school performances have gone back | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
in Scotland in recent years. We used to have the best education system | :18:41. | :18:52. | |
anywhere in the world. That is no longer the case. There is a lot I | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
can do to try and bring the SNP onto our ground. I managed in the last | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
parliament coming from third, in terms of school testing and money | :18:59. | :19:00. | |
not just being handed to local authorities, I think we got a wink, | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
teach first. There are real areas I think we can help the debate in | :19:04. | :19:06. | |
Scotland and put forward is positive or turn at its. You shouldn't | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
overplay your part. The SNP is still the dominant party in Holyrood, you | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
are second, but all the other opposition parties are to the left | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
of you. You're still a minority voice and won't be able to count on | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
the opposition, other opposition parties ganging up on your side? We | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
are a hugely important voice precisely because of the other side | :19:28. | :19:35. | |
in voices you have identified. The First Minister, like the Prime | :19:36. | :19:37. | |
Minister has competing and conflicting areas of interest: how | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
one way or another. You are right to say Nicola Sturgeon has that she | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
wants to make Scotland the highest in the UK. The other parties are | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
trying to drag a further left, taking more money out of the pocket | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
of ordinary working Scots. Our voice is crucial to pull her back to the | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
centre, saying that is not the way to look after the Beeb all working | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
hard and deserve a break in Scotland but also not the way to look after a | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
Scottish economy. Last month's figures, 20,000 rise in unemployment | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
in the UK, most of which came from Scotland. Our economic growth is a | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
fraction of the rest of the UK. We need to become a more competitive | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
country. That is an odd and I can make very strongly. Let me ask you | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
this, when you look at the huge powers that have been devolved | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
Scotland, and more on their way over schools, education, hospitals, | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
health, transport and now a chunk of tax as well, is it ever conceivable | :20:31. | :20:37. | |
that a Scottish MP from a Scottish constituency could ever again be | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
Prime Minister of the United given that they would have no | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
responsibility for so many things that affect the rest of the UK? Of | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
course. Typically in the last Labour government you had a health minister | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
who came from Lanarkshire in John Reid you had a chance of that came | :20:56. | :21:02. | |
from Edinburgh. Is that conceivable again, that you could have a Home | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
Secretary from a Scottish constituency, where everything on | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
the home front is essentially devolved to Scotland? It was | :21:13. | :21:14. | |
devolved at the time it was being taken over by John Reid. I know he | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
played Parliamentary bingo and got a lot of big jobs. If you have English | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
votes for English laws, a Scottish Prime Minister wouldn't even get to | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
vote on his own policies. Andrew, you and I have talked about this | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
many times. You saw our Strathclyde commission report, the basis that | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
the Smith commission, the devolution of all these powers on one of the | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
key aspects of that, looking at great detail with constitutional | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
expert, was to ensure it wouldn't divest Scotland away from the rest | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
of the UK. I don't think it does. In terms of all of the big jobs, I | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
think you will see another Scottish Prime Minister, or from Wales or | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
Northern Ireland. Talent will out. Do you think you've Zac Goldsmith | :22:03. | :22:04. | |
bought the kind of campaign you fought in Scotland the Conservatives | :22:05. | :22:13. | |
might have held on to the mayor? I don't qualify to talk about that, | :22:14. | :22:16. | |
I've only been to London once this year. I knew I had a job to deliver | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
here in Scotland. Even though I am a political geek I didn't watch the | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
London mayoral race that closely I had a job to do the. Thank you. | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
So Labour ended the week with a big result to feel cheerful about thanks | :22:30. | :22:32. | |
to Sadiq Khan's thumping win over Zac Goldsmith to become | :22:33. | :22:34. | |
The numeric macro has used his big job in office to reach out beyond | :22:35. | :22:44. | |
the activists, which sounds like criticism of Jeremy Corbyn. He was | :22:45. | :22:45. | |
talking to Andrew Marr earlier. We in Labour, our mission is to | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
improve people's lives, and change We only do that | :22:52. | :22:53. | |
by winning elections, by having a mandate | :22:54. | :22:56. | |
to improve people's lives. What are the challenges | :22:57. | :22:58. | |
facing Londoners? How do you tackle | :22:59. | :23:00. | |
the housing crisis? How do you ensure we have a modern | :23:01. | :23:01. | |
and affordable transport system? How do young people get | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
the skills of tomorrow? We only do that by speaking to those | :23:05. | :23:06. | |
people who previously By speaking to Tory voters, | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
to those outside of our tent. And my point is, we've got to | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
stop talking about ourselves. Well, to discuss this we're joined | :23:17. | :23:18. | |
from Leeds by Caroline Flint, she was of course a former minister | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
and was in Ed Miliband's Welcome back to the programme | :23:23. | :23:33. | |
Caroline Flint. Let me put Sadiq Khan's quote to you. So-called | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
natural Labour voters alone will never be enough to win a general | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
election. Have you seen any progress from Thursday's results that Jeremy | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
Corbyn's Labour Party is making progress in appealing to beyond the | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
faithful? We need to make a lot more progress, Andrew. Although we had a | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
fantastic result in London with Sadiq Khan, and I have to say the | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
Tory campaign was both shameful and disgusting. We won in Bristol with | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
Marvin and held onto councils like Crawley, Southampton and Redditch | :24:04. | :24:06. | |
and Hastings, where I have been many times. It is not enough. We have to | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
show that we are a party that is competitively challenging the | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
government. That is why, as Sadiq said in his interview in the | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
Observer today, we have to reach out beyond the big cities and reach out | :24:20. | :24:23. | |
to those people who voted Conservative to vote Labour. Then we | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
can have big politics for a big election and when it. What you say | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
to John McDonnell, been a bit too in your party, saying I think we are on | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
a steady course for victory in 2020. We are laying the foundations for | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
that long haul victory in 2020. Is he right or wrong? I believe in | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
honest straight talking politics. John McDonnell said in the run-up to | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
these elections, we are looking to hang on. Looking to hang on isn't | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
enough. This is the worst result for an opposition party after a general | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
election in 30th. The year after Michael foot was elected we gained | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
1000 council seats. Tony Blair 1800, Ed Miliband over 800. We actually | :25:05. | :25:10. | |
had a loss of 28. In fact, the Tories, when you look at directly | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
contested elections, gained three. It doesn't take away from the hard | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
work on the ground by Labour councillors, Parliamentary | :25:21. | :25:21. | |
candidates and members in these elections, but we need to be making | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
far more inroads to be within an opportunity to win in 2020. That is | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
the challenge for Jeremy. He deserves the right to lead, won the | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
election, but he has to show, what have the loan from these elections? | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
Will he talked people like Sadiq Khan to think about how we broaden | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
our appeal so we can be in a very strong position, 2020. How long has | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
it got to learn these lessons? Our members were only elected in | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
September last year. I said he won on a huge mandate. He has not only | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
won the right to be leader, he is the leader and our members believe | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
Labour leaders should have the time to prove themselves. But, you know | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
we know when the election is going to be, that is something relatively | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
new to our politics in Britain. We also know this election we have to | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
be honest about what the positive aspects and also about what didn't | :26:14. | :26:15. | |
work and where we need to gain ground. How long have you got? | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
People will be looking to hear from Jeremy what he's run and how he will | :26:21. | :26:24. | |
take us forward and they will be looking... We have elections next | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
year and the year after, but we have to ask ourselves is a party. I think | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
this is a really big task for Jeremy Tilse. We are having a debate about | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
what is the Labour Party for? We have to decide, are we a party of | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
protest or a mainstream, democratic socialist party which is | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
competitively challenging for government? If we are the latter, | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
which we should be, we need to have the politics and the leadership to | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
actually talk about that much, much more and take us board. That is | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
really important for all of us. We have to ask ourselves is well, we | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
have ten years of opposition here. We don't need another five on top of | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
that. John McDonnell thinks you begrudge things. He says, for | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
goodness sake get behind the leader, it is time to put up or shut up. I | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
am someone who loves the Labour Party. I joined in 1979, I know what | :27:16. | :27:25. | |
it's like... Put up or shut up? I am putting up. I put up in the House of | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
Commons, where I am working with John McDonnell's team on tax | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
transparency measures. We have a Tory party that should be absolutely | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
on the ropes. A jet measures they had to drop on tax credits, Sunday | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
trading they have had to drop, and I knew turned since the last general | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
election. The education policy in tatters, the Panama papers, it goes | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
election. The education policy in on and on. The truth is we need to | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
be making sure that the public know about that and we have an | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
alternative to that. At the moment, despite all those issues facing the | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
Tory party, we didn't make as much progress as we showed. Let's be | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
honest about these results, let's be honest about we need to reach out | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
beyond our core vote, just as Sadiq Khan said. I hope John McDonnell | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
will back me on that. Lets see if we can continue with this honesty. | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
Given Scotland is now effectively a no go area for Labour, how could you | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
ever hope to win the 2020 election on England alone? You would need a | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
13 point lead, a bigger lead than Tony Blair had. That is just not | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
conceivable. It is a massive challenge, Andrew. In Scotland are | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
very disappointing night for Scotland. I think how Scottish | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
friends all know that the way back for Labour will take some time. I | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
wouldn't blame Jeremy Corbyn for what happened in Scotland either. | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
You are right. My understanding is if we don't make the sort of | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
comeback we need to in Scotland, in the numbers were used to be able to | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
rely on, we need to gain something like 100 seats, 100 seats in England | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
to have a majority. We need to have that sort of talking within the | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
party. Activists realise protests in themselves will not be enough. | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
Labour votes won't be enough and I'm looking to Jeremy Corbyn to provide | :29:18. | :29:18. | |
the leadership that. A final question. What you say to | :29:19. | :29:29. | |
several Tory MPs who have said to me, and I quote, Mr Corbyn's | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
survival is the single most important thing for Tories for 2020? | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
If we are not winning elections, they will say that. In many | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
respects, the Tories were probably relatively relieved. Despite the | :29:45. | :29:49. | |
shameful campaign they ran in London, given everything that's been | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
going on in government in the last eight months, they should be quite | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
relieved in terms of the result. We need to show them that Jeremy can | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
stand up and face those criticisms, and the way he does that is by | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
reaching out, as Sadiq Khan has done, as have many councils across | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
the country in keeping their seats, and do the right thing for Labour. | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
We need to move on, Caroline. Thank you. | :30:16. | :30:17. | |
So that's the view of one former member of the Labour frontbench - | :30:18. | :30:20. | |
we're joined now by the current shadow energy minister Clive Lewis, | :30:21. | :30:23. | |
he's in our Norwich studio - welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :30:24. | :30:25. | |
Morning, Andrew. Caroline Flint was saying that George Osborne's latest | :30:26. | :30:33. | |
budget is in ruins, the Tories are tearing themselves apart over | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
Europe, Iain Duncan Smith resigned because of what the government is | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
doing to the working poor. The best Mr Corbyn could say was, we hung on. | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
Is that good enough? Let's have a look at the focus of the media to -- | :30:48. | :30:54. | |
the media and the punditry. It was issued in the Labour Party that was | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
the core focus for you guys. You brought that on yourselves. The | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
bottom line is, at the start of your programme, you began that the | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
results of the Labour Party, when actually, we were up 2% in the | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
national share vote and the Tories were down 5%. Yet you in your | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
commentators started on how it was a result for Labour. I'm not saying it | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
was anything to shout about. But let's look at the results. You need | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
13 points to win, so I would suggest that one or two points is neither | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
here nor there was yellow Caroline Flint hit the nail on the head in | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
that we have a massive task in front of us. But infighting is not the way | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
forward. That is not going to help us achieve victory in 2020. We all | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
know it is a massive uphill struggle. We need to think how we | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
can make the best effort to win in 2020, and that is what the next few | :31:49. | :31:55. | |
weeks and months need to be about. I agree with with so much of what | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
Sadiq Khan said in his interview. Why doesn't Jeremy Corbyn meet with | :32:00. | :32:06. | |
him? I think he will. But he won the capital city, by 14 points. It was | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
an incredible victory, the first Muslim leader of a major city in | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
Europe. And Mr Corbyn, we haven't seen him anywhere near him yet. It | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
is a fantastic victory. Sadiq Khan nominated Jeremy. He didn't vote for | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
him, which is a brilliantly principled position. Corbyn and Khan | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
are comrades and good friends. They have a lot to learn from each other. | :32:35. | :32:43. | |
Sadiq Khan won because he was with Jeremy Corbyn. All the people in | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
London who are supporting the Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn and | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
reaching out. I am sure that Sadiq and Jeremy will meet in the near | :32:53. | :32:59. | |
future. It is certainly unusual. Caroline Flint has just told us that | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
the Conservatives should be happy and relieved by Thursday's results. | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
I don't think they should. In Exeter they lost four seats. In Ipswich, | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
there were seats we didn't even win in 97. Their share of the vote is | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
down 5%. They didn't make the games expected in Wales. I don't think it | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
is a fantastic result for them at all. I expect the Conservatives will | :33:24. | :33:33. | |
try to turn the focus back on to Labour, but I don't think they've | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
got anything to crow about either at the moment. What do you say to Ian | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
Murray, the Scottish Secretary, the only Labour MP in Scotland. He says, | :33:40. | :33:40. | |
Murray, the Scottish Secretary, the I don't think the public see the UK | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
Labour Party led by Jeremy Corbyn as being a credible party of future | :33:45. | :33:51. | |
government in 2020. I listened to the whole interview, and I respect | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
Ian Murray great real. I heard his statement. I think he was saying, | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
basically, where we are as a party at the moment isn't good enough. I | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
don't think you'll find anyone in the Labour Party who would disagree | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
with that. We need to move forward and consolidate. These results were | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
not the disaster that you and the punditry were predicting. We were | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
told 150 or 200 seats lost -- would be lost. We were told Jeremy Corbyn | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
wouldn't win, and then he won with a landslide. We won -- we heard that | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
the old by-election would be a disaster. And he won. I think the | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
thing to think about now is that politics is in flux. In the US, we | :34:37. | :34:46. | |
have a socialist running Hillary Clinton to the wire, but then you | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
have Donald Trump standing as well. People are concerned and angry, and | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
things are changing, and the punditry needs to take that into | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
account and reflect that things are changing. We will take that into | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
account. I never use the word disaster to talk about Labour's | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
performance on Thursday. Let's stick with that. I put to you that surely | :35:10. | :35:15. | |
the real lesson from Scotland is this - if you continue to attack | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
north of the border, as you have been, you need to do better in | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
England than even Tony Blair did in 97, and that, I put to you, is | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
frankly fantasy. Let's look at Scotland. It was a very difficult | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
night for us. I would rather you looked at England and tell me how | :35:37. | :35:38. | |
you will do well. This is the issue you will do well. This is the issue | :35:39. | :35:45. | |
- what we have done in this weeks election is consolidate our vote in | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
2015 and improve it by 2%. We now need to move forward. We now have | :35:52. | :35:57. | |
next to no chance of winning in 2020 if we remain a divided house, and | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
that is what has happened at the moment. What we can all learn from | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
Sadiq was explaining is -- in his interview is that we have | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
consolidated our vote in 2015 and improved it, and now we have to move | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
on small businesses, to those who are affected by the government cuts | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
on public services. We need to reach out to people who have voted | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
Conservative in the past. I think it is a message that Jeremy Corbyn has | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
two and will listen to. But the key thing is that a house divided has no | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
chance of being able to do that in 2020. Thank you for joining us. | :36:37. | :36:39. | |
It's just gone 11.35am - you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :36:44. | :36:45. | |
we're going to be talking about a big week ahead | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
First, though, the Sunday Politics where you are. | :36:51. | :37:18. | |
With enthusiasm and confidence clearly and firmly behind us, we | :37:19. | :37:26. | |
will collectively get on with the job of delivering for the people of | :37:27. | :37:28. | |
our country. Kezia Dugdale put a brave face on it | :37:29. | :37:42. | |
as the party vote collapsed - can Scottish Labour rebuild | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
or it is a spent force? Asked before the election | :37:46. | :37:48. | |
if the Conservatives would take overtake Labour and become the main | :37:49. | :37:50. | |
opposition, the Tory leader Ruth Davidson | :37:51. | :37:52. | |
responded unequivocally yes. Well, the rest, as | :37:53. | :37:53. | |
they say, is history. Just how did the Conservatives | :37:54. | :37:55. | |
detoxify their brand, win seats for a raft of new MSPs | :37:56. | :37:57. | |
and revitalise the party's fortunes Yesterday Ruth Davidson acknowledged | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
the role played by a coalition of blue collared workers who'd never | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
been persuaded to back She's promised to hold | :38:05. | :38:06. | |
the SNP to account. Earlier I spoke to the party's | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
deputy leader, Jackson Carlaw, Well, Nicola Sturgeon said she has | :38:11. | :38:28. | |
an unequivocal mandate to implement her manifesto. Doshi? Unequivocal is | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
to overstate it. It reminds me of the politics of assertion which | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
worked with a fork in the last government. There is no doubt in our | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
minds the preferred government of Scotland is one run by Nicola | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
Sturgeon and the SNP. But the public have a way of correcting things and | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
I think they were slightly uncomfortable with the overbearing | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
arrogance of the last SNP government and decided they wanted a proper | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
opposition to clip the wings and see a government deposed. Nationalists | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
said we need an opposition and government. That is the job they | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
have entrusted to the Scottish Conservatives. Nicola Sturgeon says | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
Ruth Davidson is overreaching when she says the SNP have no mandate for | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
a second independence referendum. Issue bite? Again, she is asserting | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
a position which is defied by the results. The key platform on which | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
the Scottish Conservatives and Ruth stood was not just the strong | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
opposition but no to a second referendum, no other party was | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
unequivocal about that. We were. A government that no longer has a | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
majority, Nicola Sturgeon in the last week of the campaign, it was | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
the eye word. I will decide I will review, I will look at the opinion | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
polls and to independence. I do not think she has the right to stand | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
there and say it all about her. If you add in the greens there is a | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
pro-independence majority parliament so should they decide collectively | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
they want to push for another referendum, why did not have the | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
right? It would be foolish to try, it was not in the manifesto, I do | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
not think they have mandate and Scotland has made it clear it wants | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
to see the government get on with governments and to put independence | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
issue aside. The Scottish Conservatives have done that. It is | :40:22. | :40:28. | |
not going to happen. You are saying what you think should happen, what | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
is to stop them collectively come the greens and the SNP saying we | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
have a majority, we will push for a second referendum and we have the | :40:39. | :40:41. | |
right to do that because we have a majority. I know the problem with | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
common sense it is it is not common. If the SNP has common sense it will | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
recognise if it pushes on and persists with trying to put Scotland | :40:53. | :40:55. | |
through another referendum it is going to come to grief. They need to | :40:56. | :41:01. | |
demonstrate they can govern the country. Come to grief in what | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
sense? At subsequent elections. That is -- stratification -- satisfaction | :41:07. | :41:20. | |
was down. This was not in the manifesto. I do not think they have | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
a mandate, Nicola Sturgeon wants to implement her manifesto in full, | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
having a second referendum was not in the manifesto. Should they do it | :41:29. | :41:35. | |
and they are asserting they may do it, should they do that, do you | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
think the British government should it, should they do that, do you | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
step in and say, sorry, you can't have that. You do not have the | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
mandate. I do believe it will get to that point. I would not be unhappy | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
if they did but I do not believe it will get to that point. I think we | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
will see a parliament now with a strong opposition, not just from the | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
Conservatives but other opposition parties with more teeth to change | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
the agenda. We will move onto other issues. You say you will not be | :42:06. | :42:11. | |
unhappy if did but that would give the Scottish Nationalists and | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
everyone who supports independence the greatest cause for grievance | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
they ever had. But it isn't going to happen! The focus is going to be on | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
the other issues and the most immediate one is the legislation for | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
which there is a natural majority against. Do you expect that to be | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
one of the first things where you can challenge the unequivocal right | :42:35. | :42:42. | |
of Nicola Sturgeon? Absolutely. We want to stop it. And you think you | :42:43. | :42:49. | |
can? There was a natural majority across other parties that realise | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
the concerns with the public, it became as the election moron a big | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
issue on the doorsteps -- election war on. It is something many SNP | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
people are wondering if they have done the right thing. That is where | :43:06. | :43:17. | |
we will make a difference. Tax. Actually, you are the only | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
opposition party that agrees with the SNP on the basic rate of tax so | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
presumably you would be happy to help them get through their | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
proposals on tax. Well, we have come into the parliament to be a party | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
that will lead the opposition, we will look at the budget as a whole, | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
we will not be looking at it piecemeal to see if there are any | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
trinkets in there. When it comes to opposing rises in the basic rate of | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
tax which the Lib Dems and greens and Labour want, you would stand by | :43:47. | :43:53. | |
the SNP? We do not isolate the budget in that way taking votes on | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
the individual pieces, we look at the budget as a whole. Unless the | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
budget will restore the 152,000 college places and deliver on other | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
key areas we supported then we will be there to oppose the government | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
not to vote piecemeal for things we do not approve. Would you want in | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
negotiations to demand the Scottish government George Osborne's proposal | :44:17. | :44:24. | |
is implemented? The policy will be for the Scottish government to put | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
forward its budget and we will look to see what they do. Our concern is | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
to ensure overall tax in Scotland is no higher here than elsewhere in the | :44:35. | :44:41. | |
UK. We think it is bad. We are conscious of the fact the proposals | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
of the SNP will drag into higher rate tax all manner of people but I | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
do not think were paying high tax five years ago who I do not think | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
people regard as being rich. You could say to them this is what we | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
people regard as being rich. You believe if you want us to support | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
you, give us this. It is not a case of looking at individual tax policy | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
and saying that leads us to support the budget. We will look at the | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
budget in its entirety. We are not going to be standing there beating | :45:13. | :45:15. | |
our chests saying the Tories are back. We'll be standing there saying | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
with Davidsson's Conservatives have arrived and will look at the job of | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
opposition in a completely different way to ensure there was a political | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
opposition, a different centre of gravity in the parliament, a battle | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
of ideas and that is the challenge is open to us if we are to respond | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
to the confidence given to us by people to be the opposition in | :45:38. | :45:39. | |
Scotland. Nine years in office, | :45:40. | :45:42. | |
over a million votes, a third successive term in office | :45:43. | :45:44. | |
and a personal mandate But, crucially, the party fell short | :45:45. | :45:46. | |
of achieving an outright majority. The SNP has ruled out a formal | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
coalition and will need to win support for its legislation | :45:53. | :45:55. | |
by working with the other parties But yesterday Nicola Sturgeon warned | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
the opposition that she has a "clear "and unequivocal" mandate | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
to govern and they shouldn't In a moment, we will speak | :46:05. | :46:06. | |
to Nicola Sturgeon. The party is also no stranger | :46:07. | :46:16. | |
to minority government, 63 SNP MSPs, enough to give Nicola | :46:17. | :46:28. | |
Sturgeon the personal mandate she wanted to stop she will be the new | :46:29. | :46:36. | |
first minister. We pulled more votes than Labour and the Tories combined. | :46:37. | :46:44. | |
We also had a clean sweet in six out of seven of Scotland's cities. 63 | :46:45. | :46:53. | |
MSPs is not enough to guarantee a majority at Holyrood and there will | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
be no formal coalition. We are looking at a minority government. | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
Because the SNP have no majority, they will have two reach out for | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
support from other parties and have discussions in the parliament and | :47:07. | :47:12. | |
hopefully open for people to see them. What happens when one party | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
has all the power is that it tends to use the power to concentrate and | :47:18. | :47:19. | |
get itself more power and that is to use the power to concentrate and | :47:20. | :47:31. | |
anathema to democracy. We have been here before. The SNP formed a | :47:32. | :47:38. | |
minority government nine years ago. In 2007 we had some of the most | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
progressive environmental legislation on renewable targets set | :47:43. | :47:45. | |
anywhere in the world. That was part down to the fact the parliament was | :47:46. | :47:53. | |
more diverse as you could not get that with the government, back in | :47:54. | :47:59. | |
2003 when we had the rainbow parliament, we had progressive | :48:00. | :48:06. | |
legislation on tuition fees and free school meal at a slate of came out | :48:07. | :48:12. | |
of those negotiations. But running a government when you are relying on | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
doing deals with parties like the Greens is not always easy. This is | :48:17. | :48:24. | |
the Scottish budget and it should be done better than this. The SNP has | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
worked with conservatives in the past. Our support for that budget | :48:30. | :48:37. | |
was conditional on three major areas of Conservative policy being | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
delivered. A thousand extra police, big cuts in business rates for our | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
smallest businesses and a new National drug strategy for Scotland. | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
Sticking points in this parliament are likely to include the issues of | :48:52. | :48:58. | |
fracking, tax rates, air passenger duty and SNP plans for a named | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
person to look after every child. But for all the excitement of last | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
Thursday night, there were 1.8 million Scots who chose not to vote, | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
45% of the electorate. Some people tell us they do not care enough but | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
when I did research with focus groups people do care a lot, about | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
housing, where they live and each other, they do not think the | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
political system is doing anything to make anything change in a way | :49:29. | :49:35. | |
that is beneficial. So, how do we re-engage those people? You can't | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
talk to them about big political issues at first, if you engage them | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
about things they care about locally, in the town centre then you | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
get onto the Y -- why it is not dealt with and explore the political | :49:48. | :49:54. | |
problems. I think if we look at how we do local democracy and remake | :49:55. | :49:57. | |
local democracy in a way that asks people what they care about and ask | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
them to get involved in solving the problem, and giving them the power | :50:03. | :50:05. | |
then I think you will build a stronger political system and | :50:06. | :50:12. | |
democratic society. Things have changed in Scotland. A lot of people | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
will be looking for what you could call the red rump. It turned up on | :50:18. | :50:23. | |
Thursday in Shetland. This red rump swallow snapped by the fair Isle | :50:24. | :50:25. | |
Bird Observatory. Joining me now is the First Minister | :50:26. | :50:27. | |
and leader of the SNP, Congratulations! You said yesterday, | :50:28. | :50:40. | |
you have won the election and I congratulate you. You talked about | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
having an unequivocal mandate. That is the bit you do not have. | :50:46. | :51:00. | |
We won the election comprehensively. In terms of the SNP as much strength | :51:01. | :51:07. | |
there is no change. We ended the last parliament with 64 MSP 's and | :51:08. | :51:14. | |
now we have 63. The relative strength of the opposition parties | :51:15. | :51:20. | |
have changed. For opposition parties they will be questions for them | :51:21. | :51:23. | |
about whether they want to align themselves more with a progressive | :51:24. | :51:28. | |
left of centre government so I have feeling relaxed about the | :51:29. | :51:30. | |
Parliamentary arithmetic. The SNP won the election. It is not an | :51:31. | :51:40. | |
unequivocal mandate in like you don't have another right majority. I | :51:41. | :51:48. | |
want to govern in an inclusive way because I think it's right to find | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
common ground and build on it. I am not prepared given the scale of the | :51:53. | :52:01. | |
SNP's mandate to allow opposition parties to undermine our ability to | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
argument that manifesto. What you mean by that? I have a mandate to | :52:07. | :52:09. | |
permit the manifesto and I'm going to do that I'd reaching out where I | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
can because I think that's the right thing to do. You say you don't want | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
them to undermine it but you will have to make compromises. Government | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
is about trying to build alliances and I am going to do that and I'm | :52:23. | :52:26. | |
also seeing clearly to the opposition parties I think they need | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
to recognise the scale and the emphatic nature of the mandate the | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
SNP has achieved. We were elected on a manifesto and as First Minister I | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
am intending to implement that manifesto. But you will have to get | :52:40. | :52:46. | |
agreement from others. Take tax, your proposals on the basic rate of | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
tax, the Tories are the only opposition party which supported | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
you. But the Tories don't support this on giving a tax cut to higher | :52:55. | :52:59. | |
rate tax years. The Liberals and Labour will. That is the fundamental | :53:00. | :53:07. | |
point I am making. The opposition parties, there will be rarer | :53:08. | :53:10. | |
occasions when they will come together in a common position. But | :53:11. | :53:17. | |
you just need the support of the Conservatives. We will put forward a | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
budget and six are bought from across the Parliament. But the | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
Conservatives are the only ones who agree with your basic policies. They | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
don't agree with some of our basic policies on tax. He doesn't agree | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
that a higher rate tax payers should be paying more. They don't agree | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
with our basic proposition. But you know if you get your proposals on | :53:42. | :53:44. | |
tax through and the Conservatives vote for you people will say hang on | :53:45. | :53:51. | |
you slack Labour off for ages for being on the same platform and we | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
are now back in a situation where an SNP government is getting its | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
policies through with Tory support. I will put forward a budget based on | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
a manifesto which secured the support of almost 50% of the | :54:05. | :54:13. | |
Scottish publishing. Jackson Carlaw said we don't vote on budgets in | :54:14. | :54:18. | |
terms of the individual aspects, Parliament vote on the totality of a | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
budget. I will seek support for the totality of the budget. That is how | :54:23. | :54:28. | |
I am going to govern, I am going to govern in a way that I think serves | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
the interests of Scotland and I will ask opposition parties to support | :54:33. | :54:34. | |
the interests of Scotland and I will us. I will seek areas of common | :54:35. | :54:38. | |
ground but I am not going to be thwarted in my determination to | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
govern in the interests of the country. Independence referendum. | :54:42. | :54:43. | |
Can we put that on to bed for the country. Independence referendum. | :54:44. | :54:49. | |
next five years? The position I put forward in the manifesto got the | :54:50. | :54:52. | |
support of almost 50% of the population. I know the Tories by the | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
standards had a good night on Thursday but we have to put it in | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
context. They put forward the position and Jackson Carlaw said | :55:01. | :55:03. | |
they were the only ones going in with an unequivocal position of | :55:04. | :55:06. | |
saying no to an independence referendum -- referendum. | :55:07. | :55:18. | |
Your manifesto was not an ambiguous. The Greens manifesto said they | :55:19. | :55:25. | |
wanted a million people to sign up to a petition before they would | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
support another referendum. The Scottish Parliament should have the | :55:30. | :55:30. | |
support another referendum. The right to propose another referendum. | :55:31. | :55:36. | |
What I acknowledged during the campaign is that those circumstances | :55:37. | :55:42. | |
do not yet exist. Do you need a million strong petition? The point | :55:43. | :55:46. | |
in going to make is that directly raised in the campaign that those of | :55:47. | :55:50. | |
us who support independence have got work to do to address the issues | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
that many people who could have backed the Yes campaign ultimately | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
didn't. We have to address those issues. Talking about another | :55:59. | :56:04. | |
referendum before we do that is putting the cart before the horse. | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
The Greens have even less of a mandate for a referendum than you | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
do. They said they wanted a million people to sign a petition. You are | :56:13. | :56:20. | |
claiming that because of the Greens you have a majority in parliament. | :56:21. | :56:27. | |
We have a majority of MSP supporting Scotland becoming independent. What | :56:28. | :56:39. | |
I am also saying is that those of us who support independence have got a | :56:40. | :56:41. | |
job to do to build the majority support not in parliament had in the | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
country for independence because that will determine the question. | :56:47. | :56:52. | |
Jackson Carlaw said he would not be unhappy if you keep going on about | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
this and the British Government stepped in and said you are not | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
having one. It might not suit the Tories or Jackson Carlaw David | :57:01. | :57:03. | |
Cameron but we live in a democracy and I am entitled to make the case. | :57:04. | :57:09. | |
The point here is a fundamental democratic point. My manifesto said | :57:10. | :57:13. | |
the Scottish Parliament should have the right to propose a referendum if | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
there is evidence that it is the preferred option of the majority of | :57:18. | :57:20. | |
the Scottish people. If what Conservatives are saying, they would | :57:21. | :57:26. | |
stand in a way of a clear majority, it is not me that's on a killer -- | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
collision course with the Scottish publishing it is the Tories. We have | :57:32. | :57:37. | |
had referendums in Britain where there is clear -- clearly an issue. | :57:38. | :57:47. | |
We've had a referendum. The way the opinion polls go, that is not the | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
way British politics works. If we end up in a situation where there is | :57:53. | :57:54. | |
clear demand in Scotland for end up in a situation where there is | :57:55. | :57:59. | |
independence and the Tories decide to be a roadblock, then I think the | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
Tories will find themselves with any talk of a recovery, that recovery | :58:06. | :58:11. | |
will come to a juddering halt. You say you want a new campaign for | :58:12. | :58:15. | |
independence starting this summer. I am very unclear what this is. When | :58:16. | :58:23. | |
we launch that campaign in the summer we will be clear what form it | :58:24. | :58:31. | |
takes. I will unveil it in the summer. This is a point I am making | :58:32. | :58:38. | |
with a great degree of humility. Why do I think we need to have a new | :58:39. | :58:44. | |
initiative to persuade people about independence? Because as things | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
stood in the referendum we didn't do enough to persuade a majority. I | :58:49. | :58:51. | |
believe independence is the best each other Scotland. Is this a | :58:52. | :58:57. | |
campaign for another wreck -- referendum? This is a process of | :58:58. | :59:11. | |
listening to people and putting the arguments forward. In a democracy | :59:12. | :59:15. | |
that is the right thing to do. I believe in the strength of my case | :59:16. | :59:18. | |
but I also accept I have to persuade other people. I am per stash | :59:19. | :59:25. | |
prepared to do that patiently. I don't see what anybody would find | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
objectionable that. I was just asking what you are going to do. | :59:30. | :59:37. | |
There is a lot of unhappiness from the other parties. Is that something | :59:38. | :59:42. | |
you would be prepared to say, we will have another look at it? I | :59:43. | :59:54. | |
think Jackson Carlaw was wrong. I will put forward the arguments | :59:55. | :59:59. | |
because they are fundamentally sound. I recognise that we have work | :00:00. | :00:06. | |
to do to address the concerns that some parents have about this. I | :00:07. | :00:17. | |
think some of these concerns are unfounded and they have to make sure | :00:18. | :00:19. | |
think some of these concerns are we address those concerns. Why not | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
do what you did on some legal issues in the last Parliament? We will put | :00:25. | :00:31. | |
this to one side and start another way of doing it. I believe it is the | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
right way of doing it and I can point to the fact it is a policy | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
that is tried and tested. It has been in operation in for local | :00:40. | :00:46. | |
council areas for some time. It is a policy that is tried and tested and | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
think it is right. Nicola Sturgeon, thank you very much. | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
"Self immolation for dummies", was how one former MP described | :00:58. | :00:59. | |
the election platform on which Scottish Labour campaigned. | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
Most in the Scottish party are maintaining public loyalty | :01:02. | :01:03. | |
and rallying round Kezia Dugdale, arguing she needs more time. | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
But there's no doubt that their performance | :01:07. | :01:07. | |
on Thursday night was little short of a disaster. | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
Squeezed between the SNP and the Tories, the party | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
was reduced to twenty four MSPs and pushed into third place | :01:13. | :01:14. | |
James Kelly who was re-elected on the Glasgow list, | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
said he believed they had fought an energetic campaign focused | :01:19. | :01:20. | |
on the protection of public services and how to fund them. | :01:21. | :01:31. | |
If we are honest about it it was a disappointing result for the Labour | :01:32. | :01:42. | |
Party. We have two face up to the circumstances we are in. But you | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
Party. We have two face up to the were pretty confident he would still | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
be the main opposition party. Yes but the reality is that is a | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
fundamental challenge we have is Labour Party and it is a widespread | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
one and no matter what we said I don't think the people of Scotland | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
at this moment are ready and willing to listen to us. That is a challenge | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
for the party going forward. Should it go forward and the care they are | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
the deal? Definitely. She is a confident and able leader. I think | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
she deserves the time to take the party forward. You might believe | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
that but the trouble is the Scottish voters don't. It is difficult to say | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
that. The challenge we got the party is we should not allow our | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
opposition to define or problems for us. Secondly we have to look at the | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
big issues and that is not about personalities, this is a long-term | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
problem with the Labour Party has had since 2003. Can you really see | :02:43. | :02:51. | |
tested the deal leading the party into another election? Yes because | :02:52. | :03:00. | |
the reality is we have campaigned to be the opposition. That is all the | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
Conservatives can ever be. The only people who can defeat the SNP and | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
former government at some point in the future is the Scottish Labour | :03:11. | :03:20. | |
Party. She is the right person to do that wouldn't take us forward. The | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
key challenge for the Labour Party as we have defined that fundamental | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
cause. You can ask me today what the cause of the Labour Party is, I am a | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
passionate socialist and I want to fight injustice and eradicate | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
poverty but Scottish people want to know what it means for me. The | :03:39. | :03:45. | |
Tories have cause. The SNP has a cause which is independence. We have | :03:46. | :03:55. | |
to find that same passion and cause. A lot of people will say the problem | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
with Labour at the moment is what is the Labour Party for? And you have | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
in so many words said that you don't have a clue. No, of course I know | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
what the Labour Party is for. We have defined who we stand with but | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
the challenge is finding that caused to get people passionately behind | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
it. You are telling me to days after an election in which you got | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
walloped that you need to find a cause. You should have thought about | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
that awhile ago. My cause will always be to fight inequality and | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
create opportunity and fight against injustice but up against a situation | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
where we have Unionism versus nationalism that is a real difficult | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
question for the Labour Party. The reality is we are not comfortable | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
nationalists and we are not comfortable Unionists. | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
I genuinely believe... How do you sort the problem out? One thing | :05:00. | :05:10. | |
affecting you is this ambivalence towards independence which you | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
articulated, Kezia Dugdale, her attitude depended which interview | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
she was doing and people but that on what has become a decisive issue in | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
Scottish politics, Labour do not seem to know where they are. There | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
is no ambivalence, we are proud of our stance in the referendum and | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
campaigned... When your leader tells interviewer she might vote for | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
independence if Scotland voted to stay in the EU but Britain voted to | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
leave, your leader says she might vote for independence, no matter how | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
much afterwards she says she did not know what got into her, that is not | :05:51. | :05:57. | |
unambiguous. She has said we will not support any referendum in this | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
Parliament. She campaigned passionately and was campaigning for | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
the UK but the challenge we have is firstly we tried and perhaps too | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
early to move past the referendum, unless we transform our country I do | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
not think the electorate is there yet, the yes or no question... Let | :06:18. | :06:27. | |
me be clear, the biggest threat to the UK is not the Scottish National | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
Party, it is the Conservatives and the actions of David Cameron and the | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
Tories that putting the UK under threat. The trouble is Kezia Dugdale | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
came out with this line you came out with about how you moved too far | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
ahead, you are coming dangerously close to saying that Labour was | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
failed by the people of Scotland. Far from it, what I'm saying is more | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
difficult than that for Labour. This is a greater challenge for us, it | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
does not need tinkering at the edges of who individuals are, it is not | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
tinkering of politics but we have a fundamental in Scotland where the | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
people are not listening to us right now and we need to be listened to. | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
Ian Murray, your remaining MP in Scotland says part of the problem is | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
Jeremy Corbyn does not present a credible alternative to the Tories | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
as a government in Westminster and that is not helping Labour. We have | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
to present a credible alternative to the Tories in Westminster... I am a | :07:31. | :07:38. | |
fan of Jeremy Corbyn, I like the way he has come forward but we need to | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
do it in a credible way and demonstrate we can defeat the | :07:42. | :07:43. | |
Tories. Thank you. Well, we make no apology for looking | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
back at the week just past, as well as looking forward | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
to the Week Ahead. To help me do that | :07:50. | :07:58. | |
we've got two guests - Severin Carrell, who is the Scotland | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
editor at the Guardian, It seems odd starting with those who | :08:02. | :08:11. | |
lost most but I wanted to ask you about that can rent when he said the | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
problem with Labour is they're not comfortable nationally -- comment | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
and not comfortable unionists. Quite an extraordinary thing for someone | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
to say. It is the great conundrum and challenge Scottish Labour face | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
because Kezia Dugdale is adamant she has to lead an autonomous party that | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
talks to Scotland and fights on Scottish affairs for Scotland. At | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
the same time they have to portray themselves as part of a family of | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
parties across the UK. They are trapped by language and these two | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
great tensions between the large group of Labour politicians, David | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
Martin and others who say the Scottish Labour Party has do advance | :08:55. | :08:56. | |
home-rule agenda and be more positive about increased Scottish | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
powers, federal agenda but also those who want to focus more on | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
domestic day-to-day politics. It is a question of language. They are not | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
Unionists because they set up a devolved parliament, they have a | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
long long heritage of believing in campaigning for Scottish home rule | :09:17. | :09:17. | |
in the UK and they are not campaigning for Scottish home rule | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
nationalists so they do have a problem about how they frame what | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
they want to offer. They need to sort that out. You could presumably | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
try to seize home rule a own agenda by making it quite clear you do not | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
want to see the break up of the UK. The Lib Dems, that has been their | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
policy for decades. Why does Labour have such difficulty? This is as | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
much to do with the confidence voters have in the overall package, | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
look at the tax issue Kezia Dugdale was arguing forcefully for, it did | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
not make a jot of difference to the Labour Party vote in the final | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
outcome because people might like the product, they may not want the | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
manufacturer. They may not have enough trust in the person offering | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
the product and that'll be a problem for the constitutional issue. The | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
other Labour problem is what they were campaigning for was a solution | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
arrived at by all parties, the Smith commission was pretty much a | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
mutually agreed package that all the parties participated in, including | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
the SNP. The previous proposals and commission was a deal, a deeply | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
flawed proposition but it was arrived at through a process of | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
conversations, the Lib Dems and conservatives. The Labour Party have | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
the space now and the challenge, the absolute requirement to go out and | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
start strike out, do some blue sky thinking, new ground and fresh | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
territory. OK, the SNP won, they did not win out right. Nicola Sturgeon | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
seemed adamant that she still thought she could pretty much do | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
what she wanted. I think she still has the whip hand. That is the case. | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
She is correct to say at the end of the parliament they only had 64 | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
MSPs, 63 now. The beauty of the position is they have two smaller | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
parties both which can get as near as dammit to a majority. The | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
Scottish Greens are the more natural part is that the SNP because part of | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
the challenge for Nicola Sturgeon is it is clear a lot of SNP voters gave | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
the Scottish Greens their second vote. That 5%, 5-point difference | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
between what the SNP got on the constituency vote and regionally | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
went to the Scottish Greens. So, one assumes many SNP activists and | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
voters would say Nicola you need to stick to pat -- speak to Patrick | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
press. The Lib Dems will want to come back as well. Willie Rennie | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
will want to assert his party position and role. What about | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
independence? Is what Nicola Sturgeon said about not ruling it | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
out, is as brave words or is there any possibility now of a second | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
referendum? It is diminished. We do not know what will happen with | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
Brexit and other things on issues around the Tory party or whatever | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
but as things stand, no, it has diminished. Nicola Haseler and | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
balancing act, her intentions. She has two keep our rank and file SNP | :12:28. | :12:36. | |
members and again 25% of the Scottish population voted for her on | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
Thursday, happy and confident they have a party that will push on the | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
big issue the SNP are most clearly aligned with and that is | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
independence. On the politics of it, the economics, they are looking | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
really really difficult and I cannot see anything other... Is a new | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
problem that the SNP have to keep happy all these people in the seats | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
they won in Glasgow who may agree more with Labour on tax but also how | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
a problem that the vote more with Labour on tax but also how | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
declining, it is not haemorrhaging but in nutritional areas they are | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
losing out to the Tories say they need to worry about these things. | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
There is a problem, the first minister was right to say we have 63 | :13:23. | :13:30. | |
MSPs, 64 but if you look at the numbers in the constituency is the | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
SNP share of the vote fell proportionally in as many as 30 of | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
the 60 seats they won. They have not had a brilliant election by any | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
means. It has been very very good but not as successful as 2011. We | :13:46. | :13:48. | |
must leave it there. I'll be back at the | :13:49. | :13:49. | |
same time next week. | :13:50. | :13:54. |