Browse content similar to 14/05/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
Theresa May unveils plans to build many more affordable homes | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
in England, but with no price tag, timetable or building targets - | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
Labour takes aim at the City with what it calls a Robin Hood Tax | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
to fund public services, but will traders just | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
Don't look at the polls - Jeremy Corbyn, at least, | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
insists he can win this election - so which way will | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
We'll hear from a focus group in Leeds. | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
And on Sunday Politics Scotland, A good we'll be asking how we can | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
best protect ourselves from future cyber attacks. | :01:12. | :01:12. | |
And talking to the Scottish Greens' Patrick Harvie | :01:13. | :01:14. | |
in the first of our leader interviews. | :01:15. | :01:27. | |
And with me, our own scientifically selected focus group | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
of political pundits - they're not so much | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
undecided as clueless - Tom Newton Dunn, Isabel Oakeshott | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
They'll be tweeting throughout the programme. | :01:36. | :01:42. | |
So, we've got two new policies this morning. | :01:43. | :01:44. | |
Labour say they will introduce a financial transaction tax | :01:45. | :01:46. | |
if they win the general election and what they're calling | :01:47. | :01:48. | |
"the biggest crackdown on tax avoidance in the country's history". | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
The Conservatives say they'll work with local authorities in England | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
to build council houses with the right to buy. | :01:54. | :01:55. | |
Theresa May says the policy "will help thousands of people | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
get on the first rung of the housing ladder". | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
Steve, what do you make of them? I have been conditioned after doing | :02:06. | :02:13. | |
tax and spend debates in pre-election periods for many | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
decades to treat policy is not as literal but as arguments. In other | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
words if you look back to 2015 the Tory plan to wipe out the deficit | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
was never going to happen and yet it framed and large event. In that | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
sense the Robin Hood tax is a sensible move for Labour to make at | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
this point because it is part of a narrative of reconfiguring taxation | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
to be fair. Treating it as an argument rather than something that | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
would happen in day one of Labour government is sensible. In terms of | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
building houses Theresa May said right from the beginning when she | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
was in Number Ten that there is a housing deficit in this country | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
rather than the economic deficit George Osborne was focusing on, and | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
this is an example of trying to get house-building going. It seems | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
entirely sensible, not sure how it works with right to buy but again as | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
framing of a 90 minute it makes sense. I disagree with Steve on one | :03:08. | :03:17. | |
front which is how sensible Theresa May's policy is on the housing | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
announcement. I think more broadly these two announcements have | :03:23. | :03:24. | |
something in common which is that over the next 24 hours both will | :03:25. | :03:31. | |
probably unravel in different ways. Ye of little faith! The Mayor of | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
London has already said he doesn't agree with this, and when people see | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
the actual impact of what looks like a populist tax will very potentially | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
affect people's pensions, it might become a lot less popular. On the | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
Tory housing plans, I think it is difficult to imagine how they are | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
going to implement this huge, what looks like a huge land and property | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
grab. Through compulsory purchase orders, which are not a simple | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
instrument. They say they will change the law but really the idea | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
of paying people below the market value for their assets is not | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
something I can see sitting easily with Tory backbenchers or the Tories | :04:13. | :04:19. | |
in the House of Lords. Tom. Both would appear superficially to be | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
appealing to traditional left and traditional right bases. What is | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
more Tory than right to buy, then councils sell on these houses, and | :04:31. | :04:37. | |
Labour slapping a massive tax on the city. The Tories' plan, I would say | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
look a bit deeper and all of the Tory narrative from the last six | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
years which hasn't worked well is talking about the private sector | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
increasing supply in the market. Now Mrs May is talking about the role | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
for the state after all so this is the shift creeping in. On the Labour | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
transaction tax, one of the most interesting things I heard in days | :05:02. | :05:09. | |
was from Paul Mason, former BBC correspondent, now a cog in Easter | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
extreme. On Newsnight he said don't worry about whether the Labour | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
manifesto will add up, I'm promising it will, the bigger Tory attack line | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
should be what on earth will be the macroeconomic effect of taking so | :05:22. | :05:30. | |
much tax out of the system. Very well, we shall see. At least we have | :05:31. | :05:31. | |
some policies to talk about. Now, on Tuesday Labour | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
will launch its manifesto. But we've already got a pretty good | :05:35. | :05:36. | |
idea of what's in it - that's because most of its contents | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
were leaked to the media Labour has a variety of spending | :05:40. | :05:41. | |
pledges including an extra ?6 billion a year for the NHS, | :05:42. | :05:50. | |
an additional ?8 billion for social care over the lifetime | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
of the next parliament, as well as a ?250 billion | :05:54. | :05:55. | |
in infrastructure over The party will support the renewal | :05:56. | :05:57. | |
of the Trident submarine system, about its use, and the party | :05:58. | :06:06. | |
will hold a strategic defence and security review immediately | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
after the election. In terms of immigration, | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
Labour will seek "reasonable management of migration", | :06:13. | :06:14. | |
but it will not make "false Elsewhere, university tuition | :06:15. | :06:16. | |
fees will be abolished, and the public sector pay cap, | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
which limits pay rises for public sector workers | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
to 1%, will be scrapped. The party also aims to renationalise | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
the railways, the Royal Mail and the National Grid, | :06:30. | :06:31. | |
as well as creating at least one A senior Labour backbencher | :06:32. | :06:39. | |
described it to the Sunday Politics as a manifesto for a leadership | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
who don't "give a toss about the wider public", | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
and several other Labour candidates told us they thought it | :06:48. | :06:49. | |
had been deliberately leaked by the leadership, | :06:50. | :06:51. | |
with one suggesting the leak was intended to "bounce | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
the National Executive" And we're joined now from Salford | :06:56. | :06:57. | |
by the Shadow Business Secretary, Welcome to the programme. The draft | :06:58. | :07:06. | |
manifesto proposed to renationalise the number of industry. You will | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
wait for the franchises to run out rather than buy them out at the | :07:13. | :07:15. | |
moment so can you confirm the railways will not be wholly | :07:16. | :07:21. | |
nationalised until 2030, after three Labour governments, and Jeremy | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
Corbyn will be 80? I'm not going to comment on leaks, you will just have | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
to be patient and wait to see what is in our manifesto. But you have | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
already announced you will nationalise the railways, so tell me | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
about it. We have discussed taking the franchises into public ownership | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
as they expire, however the detail will be set out in the manifesto so | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
I'm not prepared to go into detail until that policy is formally laid | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
out on Tuesday. That doesn't sound very hopeful but let's carry on. You | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
will also nationalise the National Grid, it has a market capitalisation | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
of ?40 billion, why do you want to nationalise that? Again, I'm not | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
going to speculate on leaks, you will just have to be patient. But | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
you said you will nationalise the National Grid so tell's Y. The leaks | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
have suggested but you will just have to wait and see what the final | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
manifesto states on that one. So is it a waste of time me asking you how | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
you will pay for something that costs 40 billion? Be patient, just | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
couple of days to go, but what I would say is there is growing | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
pressure from the public to reform the utilities sector. The | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
Competition and Markets Authority stated in 2015 that bill payers were | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
paying over till debt -- ?2 billion in excess of what they should be | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
paying so there is a clear need for reform. The bills we get are from | :08:54. | :09:00. | |
the energy companies, you are not going to nationalise them, you are | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
going to nationalise the distribution company and I wondered | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
what is the case for nationalising the distribution company? As I said, | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
our full plans will be set out on Tuesday. In relation to the big six | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
energy companies, we know in recent years they have been overcharging | :09:18. | :09:24. | |
customers... There's no point in answering questions I am not asking. | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
I am asking what is the case for nationalising the National Grid? | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
There is a case for reforming the energy sector as a whole and that | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
looks at the activities of the big six companies and it will look at | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
other aspects too. You will have to be patient and wait until Tuesday. | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
other aspects too. You will have to What about the Royal Mail? Again, | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
you will have to wait until Tuesday. Why can't you just be honest with | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
the British voter? We know you are going to do this and you have a duty | :09:56. | :10:03. | |
to explain. I'm not even arguing whether it is right or wrong. The | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
Royal Mail was sold off and we know it was sold under value and British | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
taxpayers have a reason to feel aggrieved about that. There is a | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
long-term strategy that would ensure the Royal Mail was classified as a | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
key piece of infrastructure but the details of that will be set out in | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
our manifesto because we want to ensure businesses and households | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
ensure the best quality of service when it comes to their postal | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
providers. You plan to borrow an extra 25 billion per year, John | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
McDonnell has already announced this, on public investment, on top | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
of the around 50 billion already being planned for investment. You | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
will borrow it all so that means, if you can confirm, that many years | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
after the crash by 2021, Labour government would still be borrowing | :10:57. | :11:03. | |
75 billion a year. Is that correct? We have set out ?250 billion of | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
capital investment, and ?250 billion for a national investment bank. Our | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
financial and fiscal rules dictate we will leave the Government in a | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
state of less debt than we found it at the start of the parliament so we | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
won't increase the national debt at the end of our Parliamentary term. | :11:21. | :11:27. | |
How can you do that if by 2021 you will still be borrowing around 75 | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
billion a year, which is more than we borrow at the moment? The 500 | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
billion figure is set out over a period of ten years, it's a figure | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
that has been suggested by Peter Helm from Oxford University as a | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
figure that is necessary to bring us in line with other industrial | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
competitors. Similar figures have been suggested by groups such as the | :11:51. | :11:58. | |
CBI. By the way I have not included all 500 billion, just the 250 | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
billion on public spending, not the extra money. You talk about the | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
fiscal rules. The draft manifesto said you will leave debt as a | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
proportion of trend GDP law at the end of each parliament, you have | :12:12. | :12:18. | |
just said a version of that. What is trend GDP? In clear terms we will | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
ensure the debt we acquire will be reduced by the end of the | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
parliament. We won't leave the Government finances in a worse state | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
than we found them. OK, but what is trend GDP? Our rule is we will | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
ensure public sector net debt is less than we found it when we came | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
to power in Government on June the 8th. But that is not what your draft | :12:43. | :12:50. | |
manifesto says. I'm not going to comment on leaks, you are just going | :12:51. | :12:53. | |
to have to wait until Tuesday to look at the fine detail and perhaps | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
we will have another chat then. You have published your plans for | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
corporation tax and you will increase it by a third and your | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
predictions assumed that will get an extra 20 billion a year by the end | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
of the parliament. But that assumes the companies don't change their | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
behaviour, that they move money around, they leave the country or | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
they generate smaller profits. Is that realistic? You are right to | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
make that point and you will see when we set out our policies and | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
costings in the manifesto that we haven't spent all of the tax take. | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
We have allowed for different differentials and potential changes | :13:36. | :13:37. | |
in market activity because that would be approved and direction to | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
take. But corporation tax is allowed to be cut in France and the United | :13:43. | :13:50. | |
States, it's only 12.5% in Dublin. Many companies based in Britain are | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
already wondering whether they should relocate because of Brexit, | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
if you increase this tax by a third couldn't that clinch it for a number | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
of them? No, we will still be one of the lowest corporation tax rate in | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
the G7. Let's look at what's important for business. Cutting | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
corporation tax in itself doesn't improve productivity, or business | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
investment and there's no suggestion cutting corporation tax in recent | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
years has achieved that. Businesses need an investment in tools in | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
things they need to thrive and prosper, they also need to reduce | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
the burden at the lower end of the tax scale, before we get to the | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
Prophet stage. One key example is business rates. We have made the | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
proposal to government to in -- exclude machinery so businesses can | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
invest and grow operations in the future but the Government refused. | :14:47. | :14:53. | |
Corporation tax has been cut since 2010. When it was 28% it brought in | :14:54. | :15:03. | |
?43 billion a year. Now it is down to 20%, it brought in ?55 billion a | :15:04. | :15:09. | |
year. By cutting it in the last year, it brought in 21% more, so | :15:10. | :15:16. | |
what is the problem? It might have brought in more money, but has it | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
increased business investment in the long term. It is not just about | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
cutting corporation tax, but it is on the ability of businesses to | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
thrive and prosper. Business investment in the UK is below are | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
industrial competitors. Wages are stagnating which doesn't indicate | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
businesses are not doing well. Let me get it right, you are arguing if | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
we increase business tax by a third, that will increase investment? I am | :15:48. | :15:54. | |
not saying that. You just did. Know I didn't, I said reducing business | :15:55. | :16:02. | |
tax isn't enough, you have to invest in the things businesses need to | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
thrive and prosper. You have also got to lessen the burden on | :16:06. | :16:17. | |
business. You have announced a financial transaction tax. Your own | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
labour Mayor of London said he has vowed to fight it. He said I do not | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
want a unilateral tax on business in our city, so why are you proceeding | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
with it? This isn't a new initiative, there is a growing | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
global pressure to make sure we have fairness in the financial sector. | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
Ordinary British people are paying for our banking crisis they didn't | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
cause. Another important point, stamp duty reserve tax was brought | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
in in the 1600 and there have been little reforms. The sector has | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
changed and we have do provide changes to the system for that | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
change. High-frequency trading where we have a state of affairs where a | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
lot of shares are traded on computers within milliseconds. We | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
need a tax system that keeps up with that. What happens if they move the | :17:10. | :17:16. | |
computers to another country? Emily Thornaby said this morning, other | :17:17. | :17:21. | |
countries had already introduced a financial transaction tax, what | :17:22. | :17:23. | |
other countries have done that? There are ten countries looking at | :17:24. | :17:32. | |
introducing a transaction tax. Which ones have done it so far? They will | :17:33. | :17:39. | |
be later announcing a final package, going through the finer detail at | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
the moment. But the European Commission tried to get this done in | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
2011 and it still hasn't happened in any of these countries. But you are | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
going to go ahead unilaterally and risk these businesses, which | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
generate a lot of money, moving to other jurisdictions. There is not a | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
significant risk of that happening. The stamp duty reserve tax is levied | :18:03. | :18:13. | |
at either where the person or company is domiciled or where the | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
instrument is issued rather than worth the transaction takes place. | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
This tax in itself is not enough to make people leave this country in | :18:24. | :18:26. | |
terms of financial services because there is more to keep these | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
businesses here in terms of the investment we are making, the | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
economy that Labour will build, in terms of productivity improvement we | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
will see. Thank you very much, Rebecca Long-Bailey. | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
And listening to that was the Home Office Minister, Brandon Lewis. | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
Over the years, you have got corporation tax by 20%, it is lower | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
than international standards, so why are so many global companies who | :18:56. | :19:02. | |
make money out of Great Britain, still not paying 20%? It is one of | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
the problems with the point Labour were making and Rebecca could not | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
answer, these companies can move around the world. One of the | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
important things is having a low tax economy but these businesses, it | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
encourages them to come at a rate they are prepared to pay. People may | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
say they are right, if they were paying 19, 20% incorporation tax. | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
But they are not. Google runs a multi-million pound corporation and | :19:32. | :19:40. | |
did not pay anywhere near 20%. There are companies that are trading | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
internationally and that is why we have to get this work done with our | :19:45. | :19:52. | |
partners around the world. Has there been an improvement? It is more than | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
they were paying before. Whether it is Google or any other company, | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
alongside them being here, apart from the tax they pay, it is the | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
people they employ. The deal was, if you cut the business tax, the | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
corporation tax on profits, we would get more companies coming here and | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
more companies paying their tax. It seems it doesn't matter how low, a | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
number of companies just pay a derisory amount and you haven't been | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
able to change that. As you outlined, the income taken from the | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
changing corporation tax has gone up. That is from established British | :20:29. | :20:36. | |
companies, not from these international companies. It is | :20:37. | :20:39. | |
because more companies are coming here and paying tax. That is a good | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
thing. There is always more to do and that is why we want to crack | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
down. In the last few weeks in the Finnish Parliament, Labour refused | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
to put to another ?8.7 billion of tax take we could have got by | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
cracking down further. You claim to have made great progress on cracking | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
down on people and companies to pay the tax they should. But the tax gap | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
is the difference between what HMRC takes in and what it should take in. | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
It has barely moved in five years, so where is the progress? He have | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
brought in 150 billion more where we have cracked down on those tax | :21:22. | :21:24. | |
schemes. The gap is still the same as it was five years ago. It's gone | :21:25. | :21:35. | |
from 6.8, 26.5. It has gone down. The Prime Minister and the | :21:36. | :21:37. | |
Chancellor said they want to continue work on to get more money | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
on these companies while still having a competitive rate to | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
encourage these companies. While big business and the wealthy continue to | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
prosper, the Office for Budget Responsibility tell us those on | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
average earnings in this country will be earning less in real terms | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
by 2021 than they did in 2008. How can that be fair? I don't see it | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
that way. I haven't seen the figures you have got. What I can say to you, | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
Andrew, we have made sure the minimum wage has gone up, the actual | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
income tax people pay has gone down. So in their pocket, real terms, | :22:19. | :22:27. | |
people have more money. You are the self-styled party of work. We keep | :22:28. | :22:29. | |
emphasising work. Under your government you can work for 13 years | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
and still not earn any more at the end of it, and you did at the start. | :22:34. | :22:40. | |
Where is the reward for effort in that? I have not seen those figures. | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
There are 2.8 million more people, more jobs in economy than there was. | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
1000 jobs every day and people are working and developing through their | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
careers. This is what I thought was odd in what Rebecca was saying, | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
investing in people is what the apprenticeship levy is about, | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
companies are investing their works force to take more opportunities | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
that there. We are talking about fairness, politicians talk about | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
hard-working people and we know the average earnings are no higher than | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
they were in 2008. We know the pay and bonuses of senior executives | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
have continued to grow and the Institute for Fiscal Studies has | :23:23. | :23:25. | |
shown 3 million of the poorest households will lose an average of | :23:26. | :23:31. | |
?2500 a year in the next Parliament, benefits frozen, further sanctions | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
kick in. 3 million of the poorest losing 2500. Under the Tories, one | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
law for the rich and another for the poor. It is quite wrong. First of | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
all, we have got to be fair to the taxpayer who is funding the welfare | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
and benefit system. Which is why the welfare was right. Get more people | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
in work and then it is important to get more people upscaling. As that | :23:58. | :24:05. | |
allowance rises, people have more of the money they earn in their pocket | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
to be able to use in the economy. People will be worse off. 2500, | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
among the poorest already. They will have more money in their pocket as | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
we increase the allowance before people pay tax. We have seen | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
millions of people coming out of tax altogether. The reason I ask these | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
questions, you and the Prime Minister go on and on about the just | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
about managing classes. I am talking about the just about managing and | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
below that. It is all talk, you haven't done anything for them. We | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
have made sure they have an increasing minimum wage, it has gone | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
up more under us than any other previous government. Their wages | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
will be still lower in real terms. Let me come on to this plan for | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
housing. We have announced a new plan to increase affordable housing, | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
social housing, some council housing and social housing built by the | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
associations. How much money is behind this? It is part of the 1.4 | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
billion announced in the Autumn Statement. How many homes will you | :25:15. | :25:22. | |
get for 1.4 billion? That depends on the negotiations with local | :25:23. | :25:24. | |
authorities. It is local authorities, who know the area best. | :25:25. | :25:32. | |
I will not put a number on that. 1.4 billion, if you price the house at | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
100,000, which is very low, particularly for the South, back at | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
you 14,000 new homes. That is it. What we have seen before, how the | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
local government can leveraged to build thousands more homes. That is | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
what we want to see across the country. It is not just about the | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
money, for a lot of local authorities it is about the | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
expertise and knowledge on how to do this. That is why support from the | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
housing communities minister will help. What is the timescale, how | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
many more affordable homes will be built? I will not put a number on | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
it. You announced it today, so you cannot tell me how many more or what | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
the target is? It is a matter of working with the local authorities | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
who know what their local needs are, what land they have got available. | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
What we saw through the local elections with the Metro mayors, | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
they want to deliver in their areas, whether it is the West of England, | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
the north-east, Liverpool, Manchester and we want to work with | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
them. You have said variations of this for the past seven years and I | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
want some credibility. When you cannot tell us how much money, what | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
the target and timescale is, and this government, under which | :26:51. | :26:53. | |
affordable house building has fallen to a 24 year low. 1.2 million | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
families are on waiting lists for social housing to rent. That is your | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
record. Why should we believe a word you say? This is different to what | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
we have been doing over the last two years. We want to develop and have a | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
strong and stable economy that can sustain that 1.4 billion homes. This | :27:15. | :27:21. | |
is important. In 2010, we inherited the lowest level of house building, | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
75,000 new homes. That is about 189,000 over the last four years. | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
That is a big step forward after the crash, getting people back into the | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
industry. More first-time buyers onto the market. Final question, in | :27:37. | :27:47. | |
2010, 2011, your first year in government, there were 60,000 | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
affordable homes built. May not be enough, but last day it was 30 2000. | :27:53. | :28:00. | |
So why should we trust anything you say about this? On housing, we have | :28:01. | :28:07. | |
delivered. We have delivered more social housing. Double what Labour | :28:08. | :28:13. | |
did in 13 years, in just five years. This is what this policy is about, | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
working with local authorities to deliver more homes to people in | :28:18. | :28:18. | |
their local areas. Thank you. Now, they have a deficit | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
of between 15 and 20% in the polls, but Jeremy Corbyn and those | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
around him insist Labour can win. If the polls are right they've got | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
three and half weeks to change voters' minds and persuade those | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
fabled undecided voters We enlisted the polling organisation | :28:32. | :28:33. | |
YouGov to help us find out how the performance of party leaders | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
will affect behaviour Leeds, a city of three quarters | :28:39. | :28:40. | |
of a million people, eight Parliamentary seats and home | :28:41. | :28:49. | |
to our very own focus group. Our panel was recruited | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
from a variety of backgrounds and the majority say they haven't | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
decided who to vote for yet. Watching behind the glass, | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
two experts on different sides Giles Cunningham, who headed up | :29:02. | :29:03. | |
political press at Downing Street under David Cameron | :29:04. | :29:10. | |
and Aaron Bastani, Corbin supporter, under David Cameron | :29:11. | :29:17. | |
and Aaron Bastani, Corbyn supporter, I think Theresa May sees herself | :29:18. | :29:19. | |
as a pound shop Thatcher. Milliband's policies but when it | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
came about who you want, | :29:24. | :29:43. | |
if you wake up on maybe a 2015, We found in a couple of focus | :29:44. | :29:47. | |
groups, people saying we'd be quite relieved, | :29:48. | :29:50. | |
even though some of those same people have been saying we quite | :29:51. | :29:53. | |
like the Labour policies. I think the fact that Corbyn's | :29:54. | :29:55. | |
going so hard on his values, this is a really progressive | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
manifesto, they live But I think that's a new challenge, | :30:01. | :30:02. | |
that wasn't there in 2015. Is there anyone here that | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
you don't recognise? After a little warm up, | :30:07. | :30:08. | |
the first exercise, recognising I think it's nice to have a strong | :30:09. | :30:10. | |
woman in politics, I do. But I've got to say, | :30:11. | :30:17. | |
when she comes on the news, I kind of do think, | :30:18. | :30:19. | |
here we go again. Tell me about Tim Farron, what | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
are your impressions of Tim Farron? It isn't going to do anything, | :30:23. | :30:24. | |
it isn't going to change anything. You'll be surprised to hear it's | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
actually the Greens. Strong and stable leadership | :30:30. | :30:37. | |
in the national interest. Yes, Team May, it's | :30:38. | :30:50. | |
the British equivalent of make What do we think about this one | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
for the many and not the few? It's not quite as bad | :30:56. | :31:05. | |
as strong and stable, but it will probably get | :31:06. | :31:07. | |
on our nerves after a while. We must seize that chance today | :31:08. | :31:09. | |
and every day until June the 8th. But that's not quite my | :31:10. | :31:20. | |
question, my question is, if you are Prime Minister, | :31:21. | :31:28. | |
we will leave, come hell or high water, whatever is on the table | :31:29. | :31:30. | |
at the end of the negotiations? If we win the election, | :31:31. | :31:33. | |
we'll get a good deal with Europe. Assertive and in control | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
and he felt comfortable But the second one, I thought | :31:37. | :31:38. | |
he was very hesitant. I thought he was kind of, | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
hovering around, skirting around and that's the second | :31:44. | :31:52. | |
time I've seen a similar interview with the question | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
being asked regarding Brexit. I don't think I'd have | :31:56. | :31:57. | |
any confidence with him You think you are going up | :31:58. | :31:59. | |
against some quite strong people, how are you going to stand | :32:00. | :32:02. | |
up for us? When you are in negotiations, | :32:03. | :32:05. | |
you need to be tough. And actually is right | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
to be tough sometimes, particularly when you are doing | :32:10. | :32:11. | |
something for the country. There's a reason for talking | :32:12. | :32:13. | |
about strong and stable leadership. It's about the future | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
of the country, it's It's just that people kind of listen | :32:17. | :32:18. | |
to that kind of thing and think Both on The One Show | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
and in the news. She attracts the public better | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
than what Corbyn does. She didn't answer the question | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
in a more articular way than Corbyn Imagine that Theresa | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
May is an animal. So, in your minds, | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
what animal is coming to mind I've done a Pekinese because I think | :32:44. | :32:46. | |
she's all bark and no bite. Alpaca because she's | :32:47. | :33:00. | |
superior looking and woolly I don't think his policies | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
are for the modern, real world. A mouse because they are weak | :33:07. | :33:22. | |
and they can be easily bullied, but also they can catch | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
you by surprise if you're What do you take away | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
from what you saw then, and what message would you send back | :33:29. | :33:36. | |
to the Tories now? I think what came over is people see | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
Theresa May as a strong politician, not everyone likes her, | :33:40. | :33:42. | |
but you don't need to be liked to be elected, | :33:43. | :33:44. | |
because ultimately it's about who do you trust with your future | :33:45. | :33:47. | |
and your security. I think what I also take out | :33:48. | :33:49. | |
of that focus group, was it was a group of floating | :33:50. | :33:51. | |
voters, there was no huge appetite for the Lib Dems and there was no | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
huge appetite for Ukip. So my messaged back to CCHQ | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
would be stick to the plan. I thought the response | :33:58. | :34:00. | |
to the manifesto was excellent. It's clear that people aren't | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
particularly keen on Theresa May, There are some associations with her | :34:05. | :34:06. | |
about strength and stability, which is exactly what the Tory party | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
want of course, but they are not positive and nobody thinks | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
that she has a vision So, what I'd say the Jeremy Corbyn, | :34:15. | :34:16. | |
what I'd say to the Labour Party is, they need to really emphasise | :34:17. | :34:23. | |
the manifesto in Jeremy Corbyn himself has to perform | :34:24. | :34:25. | |
out of his skin and I think he has to reemphasise those | :34:26. | :34:31. | |
characteristics which may be have come to the fore may be | :34:32. | :34:33. | |
over the last 12 months, resilience, strength and the fact | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
that he's come this far, why not take that final step and go | :34:37. | :34:39. | |
into ten Downing Street? We're joined now by the American | :34:40. | :34:41. | |
political consultant For the sake of this discussion, | :34:42. | :34:49. | |
assume the polls at the moment are broadly right, is there any hope for | :34:50. | :34:56. | |
Mr Corbyn in the undecided voters? Know, and this is a very serious | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
collection with serious consequences to who wins. Nobody cares whether | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
you can draw and what animal they represent, they want to know where | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
they stand, and I felt that was frivolous. I come to Britain to | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
watch elections because I learned from here. Your elections are more | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
substantial, more serious, more policy and less about personality | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
and that peace was only about personality. That's partly because | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
Mrs May has decided to make this a presidential election. You can see | :35:29. | :35:37. | |
on the posters it is all Team May. I agree with that, and in her language | :35:38. | :35:45. | |
she says not everyone benefits from a Conservative government, I don't | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
see how using anything Republicans a Conservative government, I don't | :35:49. | :35:50. | |
have used in the past. In fact her campaign is more of a centrist | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
Democrats but it is a smart strategy because it pushes Corbyn further to | :35:57. | :35:58. | |
Democrats but it is a smart strategy the left. Of course you said Hillary | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
Clinton have won. On election night the polling was so bad in America, | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
the exit polls that were done, the BBC told America she had won. No, I | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
was anchoring the programme that night, I ignored your tweet. The BBC | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
was anchoring the programme that had the same numbers. Yes, but we | :36:19. | :36:25. | |
did not say she had won, I can assure you of that. Because of | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
people like you we thought she had but we didn't broadcast it. That was | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
a smart approach. My point is other than teasing you, maybe there is | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
hope for Jeremy Corbyn. I think you will have one of the lowest turnout | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
in modern history and I think Labour will fall to one of the lowest | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
percentages, not percentage of number of seats they have had, and | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
this will be a matter of soul-searching for both political | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
parties. What you do with a sizeable majority, and she has a | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
parties. What you do with a sizeable responsibility to tell the British | :37:04. | :37:05. | |
people exactly what happens as she moves forward. He and Labour will | :37:06. | :37:12. | |
have to take a look at whether they still represent a significant slice | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
of the British population. Do you see a realignment in British | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
politics taking place? I see a crumbling of the left and yet there | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
is still a significant percentage of the British population that once | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
someone who is centre-left. And they like a lot of Mr Corbyn's policies. | :37:30. | :37:38. | |
I'm listening to Michael foot. I went to school here in the 1980s and | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
I feel like I'm watching the Labour Party of 35 years ago, in a | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
population that wants to focus on the future, not the past. Thank you. | :37:45. | :37:51. | |
It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :37:52. | :37:53. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. | :38:00. | :38:00. | |
Should the NHS have done more to protect itself | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
and how safe are our other institutions? | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
The Scottish Greens drastically reduce the number of seats | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
I'll be asking their co-convenor why. | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
But will we ever get close again to being amongst | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
It came out of the blue and has caused major disruption for the NHS | :38:23. | :38:30. | |
which is continuing to deal with the fall out | :38:31. | :38:33. | |
11 of Scotland's 14 health boards were affected | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
although some are hoping to be back to | :38:37. | :38:37. | |
near normal working by tomorrow. | :38:38. | :38:39. | |
Well, joining me from Edinburgh to discuss the latest | :38:40. | :38:41. | |
on those attacks is Professor Bill Buchanan | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
who leads the Cyber Academy at Edinburgh Napier University. | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
First, Bill there are some reports seemingly based on the chap who by | :38:50. | :38:56. | |
accident stopped the spread of this. seemingly based on the chap who by | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
That it could all happen again tomorrow. Do you take that | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
seriously? It could happen tomorrow. It is quite likely, it could have | :39:05. | :39:10. | |
been much more severe, and we could have had a large-scale outbreak in | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
the public sector systems in the UK. It has been well known that this | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
vulnerability has been around for at least a month and it was given | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
administrators working in time to be able to patch their systems, | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
otherwise this would not have happened. Along with this we see | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
that there are many windows XP system still in the NHS and as long | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
as there is one of those computers in there that is a way for malware | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
to get in. That is an interesting point. Just explain to people is XP | :39:42. | :39:50. | |
and a old operating system? Several generations. Even if one double | :39:51. | :39:58. | |
system is in a hospital network network with other Windows systems, | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
even if they are Windows ten, they are that one to be updated by Mike | :40:03. | :40:09. | |
assessed -- Microsoft, that can infect the whole lot. Everyone knows | :40:10. | :40:15. | |
that Windows stopped updating their older systems. It is taken a long | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
time to migrate away and it is a difficult challenge within the NHS | :40:22. | :40:23. | |
because you are busy have business work which involves connection to GP | :40:24. | :40:26. | |
practices which might not have the most up-to-date software. Just to be | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
clear on the point I was making, are you saying that even one computer | :40:32. | :40:34. | |
clear on the point I was making, are and XP system could infect an entire | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
NHS system even if the rest of the and XP system could infect an entire | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
NHS was up-to-date? It really depends how the network is made up | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
but this is a worm and what a worm does is affect a leader in a network | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
and naturally spread so all you need is one touch pointed to the old | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
network, and it could also be someone clicking from a link from | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
e-mail, dropping malware onto the computer, or a USB stick into the | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
network which then infects the entire network so once it is in, it | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
can then propagate across the whole network. Do you think the main | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
problem is that as you have mentioned some of these systems are | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
on the old XP abridging system or is the problem that most of them are on | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
later versions of Windows, and they for some reason have not updated | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
with all the security patches that they should have updated with? As | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
you said, Microsoft had put out a patch for the some time ago. I think | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
we need to look beyond the short fix beyond operating systems and | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
computers, I think there needs to be a radical change of the hole in | :41:42. | :41:48. | |
visage of health care, and move away from short-term fixes such as | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
patches. The architecture we have for health care really needs to move | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
into the modern era of cloud -based systems, having integrated policy, | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
integrating things much more, and certainly to put the citizen at the | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
core focus of health care systems. Again, just explain that because a | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
lot of people would be terribly familiar with that. Cloud -based | :42:12. | :42:15. | |
systems, this is where poor example patient data rather than being held | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
on local servers, would be held effectively on the Internet in the | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
way that a lot of information is these days, and is that more secure? | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
Yellow macro no, it's not stored on the Internet, it is stored within a | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
private clouds so that is within the NHS infrastructure, or held locally | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
within a practice, so that is where the confusion comes in, as opposed | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
to a public cloud which is busy addressable by anybody in the world | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
but is also private clouds, many organisations such as in the finance | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
industry are now going towards private cloud infrastructures, where | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
they centralise the security policy of all infrastructure, into | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
centralised places, and then the data storage is also backed up | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
locally, and then in another remote location. They are hopeful I think | :43:06. | :43:11. | |
of getting the systems that have been affected in the NHS in | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
Scotland, we should be clear it is not all over Scotland, the real | :43:15. | :43:17. | |
problem seems to have been particularly in Lanarkshire. How do | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
they do that? As I understand that the only way to get rid of this is | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
to effectively what the operating system on a computer and reinstall | :43:28. | :43:32. | |
it. Increasingly computers don't store the information locally and I | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
would expect the NHS will be storing all the data on a centralised data | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
infrastructure so we typically just use the computer to login and get | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
access to services, connect to the web and so on, so in most cases what | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
will happen is it will be a really of the computers. -- reimaging. Can | :43:54. | :44:04. | |
we be sure that individual computers are not affected? Yellow macro I | :44:05. | :44:07. | |
don't think they can say that at all. That depends on the individual | :44:08. | :44:16. | |
practices, local computers, and what is actively stored on these. | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
Increasingly we needs to be storing in a centralised data | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
Increasingly we needs to be storing infrastructure. Briefly, the other | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
possible he is that out of sheer malice and frustration those who did | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
this good trigger the deletion of encrypted information, and if that | :44:35. | :44:37. | |
information has been encrypted back-up computers, there could still | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
be some data loss on this, couldn't they? It looks like this is not the | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
most sophisticated malware, but not being able to get access to the | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
encryption key is the same as deleting the data, you can't get the | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
data back unless you have the unique encryption key which has encrypted | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
the data so although the files are still there, there is no way to | :45:00. | :45:01. | |
access them unless you can actually find that encryption key. Some | :45:02. | :45:08. | |
malware allows the files to be taken off the machine, allowing for more | :45:09. | :45:14. | |
access of the computer so for example the camera and to be able to | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
take files off but in this case it isn't as sophisticated will stop | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
what is more important is the way that this spread was through a | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
system called as M B which Microsoft announced over a month ago, which | :45:29. | :45:31. | |
should have been blocked by the main firewall. -- the system was called | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
SMB. The Scottish Greens will fight only | :45:38. | :45:38. | |
three seats in the general election with co-convenor Patrick Harvie | :45:39. | :45:41. | |
standing in one of them. Add that to the announcement | :45:42. | :45:43. | |
this week that it won't be endorsing any other party in the 56 seats | :45:44. | :45:46. | |
it's not contesting, and you're pretty much up to speed | :45:47. | :45:48. | |
with the Greens' strategy, one which has inevitably left | :45:49. | :45:51. | |
them open to the claim, in some quarters, that this | :45:52. | :45:53. | |
is all about propping-up the SNP. In the first of our series | :45:54. | :45:56. | |
of interviews with the party leaders, I'm joined | :45:57. | :45:58. | |
now by Patrick Harvie. Patrick Harvie laughed when he was | :45:59. | :46:12. | |
going to be on this. A wry smile. You are proud of this situation, but | :46:13. | :46:21. | |
where you are not standing, you decided not to the candidate? All | :46:22. | :46:24. | |
the branches made their decisions in their own way and stop some health | :46:25. | :46:30. | |
meeting some will decide online. Or the 56 decided no, we don't want to | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
stand. Rather than we don't want to stand, all of them voted that the | :46:35. | :46:40. | |
resources they had left, after the seven national votes including the | :46:41. | :46:43. | |
Holyrood and local elections that we put a huge amount of resource and | :46:44. | :46:46. | |
energy into, they recognise that this wasn't something we were able | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
to do. Bust than two years ago in the 2015 election we stayed in about | :46:51. | :46:54. | |
half the seats in Scotland. I regret honestly that we are not in a | :46:55. | :46:56. | |
position to do that again this time round. Or even to get close to this. | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
What we do have to do is focus our resources where it will really make | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
a difference because I believe it is critical at the particular time we | :47:07. | :47:08. | |
are in at the moment that Scotland has a green voice at Westminster, I | :47:09. | :47:11. | |
think we can achieve that but only if we focus. This has nothing to do | :47:12. | :47:18. | |
with helping other parties? No, the branches in some parts of the | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
country will no doubt, as the Green party in England and Wales have done | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
as well, contemplate -- contemplate how to stop the Tories. If there is | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
the Tory held seat that is one of the fact is that people will have in | :47:34. | :47:36. | |
mind. Anybody on the progressive side of politics needs to be trying | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
to prevent the kind of Tory takeover of Westminster that Theresa May is | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
running for. This is an opportunity is -- opportunistic election, and | :47:48. | :47:54. | |
she wouldn't be calling it if there were not a weak Labour Party. The | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
two answers you have given seem to contradict each other. One minute | :47:59. | :48:00. | |
you say this is entirely about resources, and your branches are all | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
deciding not to stand, and now you are saying you are not standing | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
because he wants to help beat the Tories. It is overwhelmingly about | :48:08. | :48:13. | |
resources. Obviously one of the fact is that they branch which is | :48:14. | :48:15. | |
covering a Tory held or Tory marginal seat, one of the factors is | :48:16. | :48:22. | |
how best to prevent that very damaging outcome, the bigger Tory | :48:23. | :48:26. | |
majority at Westminster but look, the plc is that there are going to | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
be hugely important social and environmental powers moved from | :48:31. | :48:32. | |
Europe to Westminster in the next session of part of -- Parliament. | :48:33. | :48:39. | |
That will put lives on the line and a green voice at Westerners is a | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
great priority. Maggie Chapman permit your co-convener said a few | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
weeks ago that you would consider as you suggested your strategy offered | :48:49. | :48:54. | |
to keep the Tories out that not standing in areas where you thought | :48:55. | :48:57. | |
that would help people fighting Tories. She also said an approach | :48:58. | :49:01. | |
would be made to the Scottish National Party, about a Progressive | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
Alliance in what she said as the next couple of days. That was able | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
the 18th. Was such an approach ever made? No. Why not? It wasn't a | :49:09. | :49:16. | |
discussion that took place. It wasn't something be partly as a | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
robotic decided to do and she was exposing her provisional view in an | :49:21. | :49:26. | |
interview. The VLC is that the party makes decisions as local as | :49:27. | :49:31. | |
possible. That is the way that we have always operated. Your | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
co-convener said there would be an approach in the next couple of days, | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
there wasn't an approach, why not? She said she was addressing a | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
personal view. The party had not decided to do that. The national | :49:45. | :49:50. | |
council never considered the option of doing that. Actually, after the | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
2014 election and in the run up to 2015, the party's national council | :49:56. | :49:58. | |
agreed that there should be some level of discussion with the SNP | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
about whether there should be a different approach to the 2015 | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
election. They weren't interested and I frankly didn't think that they | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
would be, so they clearly had the resources to fight everything and | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
why would they change that strategy? I didn't expect anything different | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
this time so I'm not sure why would explore that. | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
People who would like to vote Green in the 56 seats where you are not | :50:23. | :50:31. | |
standing, who should they vote for? It depends on what issues are | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
important to them. If opposing Trident renewal is important to | :50:37. | :50:42. | |
them, they may find SNP candidates or Labour candidates who agree with | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
them. If the most important issue is ending subsidies to fossil fuels, | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
they are unlikely to find many SNP candidates who support them. If the | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
most important thing is sustainable transport, why would we send MPs | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
from is Scottish constituencies to argue for an extra runway at | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
Heathrow when our transport is unreliable and underfunded? What if | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
they think the Tories have the best offer? If people want an ever | :51:13. | :51:20. | |
meaner, harsher Social Security system that forces more people into | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
poverty, they need to check their values. There must be many people | :51:25. | :51:30. | |
whose priority is the environment who feel that Tories are sticking up | :51:31. | :51:38. | |
for that. They would give the go-ahead to fracking, subsidising | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
nuclear power while removing support from the renewable energy industry. | :51:44. | :51:49. | |
Anybody who supports a sustainable future for the UK will look at the | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
Tories and think they are not where it's at. Would you produce a | :51:55. | :52:01. | |
manifesto for this? Think of the paper you would be using. We will | :52:02. | :52:07. | |
produce a manifesto, the majority of it online, but we have a chance of | :52:08. | :52:15. | |
getting are strong Green MP at Westminster because we are focusing | :52:16. | :52:19. | |
our resources because we are not knocking on the doors of to fund the | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
campaign but are knocking on the doors of constituencies where we are | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
investing and talking about investment in the future, not fossil | :52:29. | :52:34. | |
fuel addicted economy but one that will create jobs for the future, a | :52:35. | :52:40. | |
Social Security system worthy of the name that allows people to choose a | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
balance in their own life between learning, working and the other | :52:46. | :52:51. | |
things that matter. But unlike the SNP, you are a parent UK movement. | :52:52. | :52:59. | |
We are a global movement. You save on your website you want to make a | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
real impact, joining forces with Caroline Lucas but that is not | :53:05. | :53:10. | |
really what you want to do. You want to split up the UK so you cannot | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
even be in the same parliament as Caroline Lucas. If Scotland has a | :53:15. | :53:22. | |
chance to ask itself again the question of independence and resolve | :53:23. | :53:33. | |
this conflict between 55% no vote in 2014 and 62% remain vote in 2016, I | :53:34. | :53:44. | |
will stand with them. I'm sure many people in Scotland care about | :53:45. | :53:47. | |
environmental issues and are opposed to independence to Scotland, but why | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
do you have such a bee in your bonnet about it? I know there are | :53:53. | :53:58. | |
such people and there are such people in the Scottish Green Party. | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
You know we were the only political party clearly saying we have our | :54:04. | :54:08. | |
majority of our members campaigning for a Yes vote but we have no | :54:09. | :54:14. | |
problem with debating that in a spirit of friendly disagreement with | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
Greens who will vote a different way. You don't want a second | :54:18. | :54:24. | |
independence referendum, -- referendum, you don't want | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
independence but you were otherwise paid up in caring for the | :54:29. | :54:31. | |
environment, then you shouldn't vote Green? The question of a referendum | :54:32. | :54:38. | |
has already been voted on in Parliament. If the Tories have a | :54:39. | :54:46. | |
majority at Westminster then there will be a tussle about who has the | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
bigger mandate, but the critical set of issues will be what to do with | :54:51. | :54:56. | |
environmental protections, hard won over many years in the EU. Do we | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
want to hand those over two Tories at Westminster? I think a green | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
voice for Scotland at Westminster is important. According to | :55:09. | :55:14. | |
International energy, there was the biggest fall of carbon emissions | :55:15. | :55:21. | |
last year of anywhere in the world of the United States, where they are | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
now back to where they work in the 1990s. This is almost entirely | :55:25. | :55:31. | |
because of fracking and trapped gas replacing coal power stations, yet | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
you are opposed to fracking on the grounds it is bad for carbon | :55:36. | :55:42. | |
emissions. It clearly isn't, it is helping reduce carbon emissions not | :55:43. | :55:48. | |
just in the US but in China. Everyone to reduce carbon | :55:49. | :55:55. | |
emissions... You're not denying it. We need to look at the global | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
picture, not just in one country. The biggest economy in the world. | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
picture, not just in one country. And one of the most polluting, | :56:05. | :56:10. | |
still. The US shifting to Frank gas does not mean those polluting fuels | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
are not being used, they are simply shifting elsewhere. Fracking is | :56:15. | :56:20. | |
opening up a new scene of fossil fuels, a new roll of the dice. It | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
produces less gas emissions then fuels, a new roll of the dice. It | :56:24. | :56:32. | |
call stations. Coal is still being used elsewhere in the global | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
economy. But you are against nuclear, the other extreme form of | :56:37. | :56:39. | |
pace power. Scotland can achieve nuclear, the other extreme form of | :56:40. | :56:46. | |
stable energy system without nuclear power. Of the two things which can | :56:47. | :56:52. | |
reduce carbon emissions, you are against them. Look at what the UK is | :56:53. | :56:59. | |
doing with nuclear power, and saying it can be done quickly or safely. I | :57:00. | :57:08. | |
don't think so. The allegation is you are better at being a Scottish | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
nationalist than I green. I've heard that and other silly accusations | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
from the Conservative Party. They keep coming up with not very well | :57:18. | :57:24. | |
done means online. Maybe with an element of truth. The arguments of | :57:25. | :57:32. | |
the Greens are coming from nowhere else in the Scottish political | :57:33. | :57:35. | |
landscape. We will keep making that case. Thank you for joining us. | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
Now, in the week before the general election, BBC Scotland | :57:40. | :57:41. | |
will be hosting a series of "Ask the Leader" TV debates, | :57:42. | :57:44. | |
a different leader each night, chaired by Glenn Campbell | :57:45. | :57:46. | |
If you'd like to take part, then you can apply online | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
by visiting our BBC News and Reporting Scotland websites. | :57:51. | :57:52. | |
The state of Scotland's Education system | :57:53. | :57:53. | |
has been in the news this week - though to be fair, it often is. | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
showed the literacy skills of some pupils were declining, again. | :58:00. | :58:02. | |
Then the Education Committee at Holyrood heard | :58:03. | :58:03. | |
some rather surprising evidence from trainee teachers. | :58:04. | :58:05. | |
I'm going to say someone's name and you have to listen. Learning the art | :58:06. | :58:21. | |
of listening at an Edinburgh school this week. These pupils are doing | :58:22. | :58:27. | |
well but the Scottish Government has been marked down in the latest | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
survey of older children's S say. Government figures show that in 2012 | :58:33. | :58:38. | |
64% of second-year pupils were doing well or very well in writing. Last | :58:39. | :58:45. | |
year it was just 49%. Primary school pupils also saw a drop in | :58:46. | :58:52. | |
performance though reading ability remains broadly the same as 2014, | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
and last year saw the worst result for Scotland in the programme for | :58:58. | :59:03. | |
student assessments in maths, reading and science. The government | :59:04. | :59:10. | |
says the decline is unacceptable. Recruitment needs to be undertaken | :59:11. | :59:15. | |
to ensure young people and educational are met and the | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
government is determined to do that but we have to see these figures | :59:20. | :59:25. | |
within a round of information which points to strength in Scottish | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
education. What has gone wrong and how can we get back on track? One | :59:31. | :59:38. | |
expert says it's the curriculum. We have a curriculum in Scotland which | :59:39. | :59:41. | |
has neglected the basics of literacy and numeracy and later by the | :59:42. | :59:48. | |
secondary stage, the contact of knowledge that helped to develop | :59:49. | :59:53. | |
children's literacy further than the basics, so the curriculum is the | :59:54. | :59:59. | |
major explication. Hollywood's Education Committee heard evidence | :00:00. | :00:05. | |
this week from trainee teachers. The likes of literacy, there would be a | :00:06. | :00:10. | |
single week we focus on literacy, that would be the focus. I was told | :00:11. | :00:18. | |
reading is good for children and makes them creative, which is useful | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
for first-year but to be reinforced for two years is unnecessary, and | :00:23. | :00:27. | |
have inexperienced the schemes like big writing ventures, having input | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
into how the schemes work would have been more valuable. There may also | :00:34. | :00:40. | |
be a sense that teaching isn't valued properly. I got told, you're | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
be a sense that teaching isn't too bright to be a teacher, by my | :00:45. | :00:46. | |
own teachers. The focus might be as too bright to be a teacher, by my | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
much on teachers as pupils, which is what has happened at the school in | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
Renfrew truck, where the council have partnered with the University | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
Renfrew truck, where the council of Strathclyde to provide on-the-job | :01:02. | :01:02. | |
development to teachers in the field Well, joining me now from Chelmsford | :01:03. | :01:04. | |
is Professor Sue Hill, an education expert | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
from the University of Strathclyde who was involved in that | :01:08. | :01:09. | |
project in Renfrewshire. Can't we try to establish some facts | :01:10. | :01:21. | |
in this rather heated debate? Let stand back from the politics. First, | :01:22. | :01:28. | |
this idea that a fifth of students in Scotland are functionally | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
illiterate? What does that mean? Is it defined in some way? It is, it | :01:35. | :01:43. | |
means they cannot read a basic newspaper, they find it difficult to | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
read or follow instructions, so there is quite a precise definition | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
but since we are talking about facts, it is Renfrewshire, not East | :01:55. | :02:03. | |
Renfrewshire. I apologise, but that sounds pretty drastic, what you | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
described. Is this student is leaving secondary school? It is a | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
measure taken at secondary school level but the issues they relate | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
further back into primary schools, so the way pupils are taught to read | :02:19. | :02:26. | |
and write, one thing about the survey is that it highlights the | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
need for teachers to have a much stronger knowledge-based, not just | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
about what you teach when you teach reading and writing but also how and | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
why it is so difficult for some children and how schools can | :02:44. | :02:45. | |
unintentionally amplify those difficulties. We look at that rather | :02:46. | :02:52. | |
than at absolute standards because no one the standard isn't helpful if | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
you don't know how to remove children on, so it is process | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
knowledge that is required. Nicola Sturgeon has done a couple of | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
interviews where she read rated that the figure that said more than half | :03:08. | :03:16. | |
of S2 students couldn't write to the standard expected, she said that is | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
true but she says what they were being tested on, they were 13 and | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
14-year-olds being tested on the standard of 15 and 16-year-olds, and | :03:27. | :03:33. | |
when they become 15 and you test them again, 80% can do it properly. | :03:34. | :03:40. | |
Is that a valid response? I think it is partly valid. One difficulty with | :03:41. | :03:47. | |
a sample survey like this is it takes very small numbers of children | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
in each local authority and extrapolates out from that to a | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
national picture, and the difficulty we have is that the SSN levels don't | :03:57. | :04:06. | |
exactly match the other levels. There are levels about reading and | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
writing in secondary schools, when children move into secondary schools | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
it becomes more complex and if they haven't had a strong grounding in | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
the intellectual grounds of reading and writing in primary school, they | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
can founder badly. If you think about child moving through there one | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
curriculum, they might start and have period one in an English | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
classroom where they are being asked to read and write and think about | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
the imagery and attend to the way something has been written, they | :04:43. | :04:44. | |
then move on to a modern studies something has been written, they | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
class where they have to think about who wrote it, is it biased, what IS | :04:48. | :04:55. | |
is happening? Then in chemistry they might get three or four lines of | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
writing but it's hugely detailed and downs and they have to do a lot of | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
tight reading, the same with English, they are being asked to | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
write fluently and use rich language. In geography you have | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
similar issues and have to pack the knowledge in, so these difficulties | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
can destabilise children who come to this. You have describe something | :05:22. | :05:30. | |
can destabilise children who come to that is always the case for children | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
going to school. Why are these students functionally illiterate in | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
the way you describe, can't read newspapers or fill in forms that | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
they might be expected to in the course of their daily lives. People | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
like that are going to find it difficult in the 21st century to get | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
gainful employment when leaving school. Why things getting worse? I | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
gainful employment when leaving think part of the issue has been | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
interviews with those student teachers has been such a strong | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
focus on programmes and content and that is what student teachers said | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
they wanted to learn about more but what we know about teaching content | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
is that it is not powerful if you do not understand the context. The | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
social basis of reading and writing, too. One of the things we do know is | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
that from the international surveys of education levels is that 37% of | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
reading is associated with social class is it to bluetits to | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
differences in reading engagement. 70% is associated with gender, | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
associated with reading engagement. Middle-class kids come to school and | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
they have a view that reading is about relaxing, about being | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
enjoyable times... But that doesn't answer why things are getting worse. | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
enjoyable times... But that doesn't Things are getting worse because | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
society is changing and education has continued to focus on content | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
knowledge that is taught, rather than looking at what the actual | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
social basis... Soap if you have some people coming to school | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
thinking that reading and writing is actually about work, and it is a | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
necessary evil, and other people coming to school thinking actually | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
it is irrelevant because it is irrelevant at home, schools have to | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
take all of those people and actually turn it around, address the | :07:22. | :07:28. | |
social attitudes, changing social attitudes making things difficult. | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
Whether it is people to get driving more safely or... I get the point. | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
Your Mac rate is a hard thing and the curriculum has not focused on | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
the enough. Thank you very much. We will return to this will stop I'm | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
very sure. Now before we look at | :07:47. | :07:47. | |
the Week Ahead, a quick refresher | :07:48. | :07:49. | |
of the political Week Just Passed. and political | :07:50. | :08:24. | |
commentator Paul Gilbride. The Greens, what do you make of them | :08:25. | :09:13. | |
were hardly standing and candidates. No, but I think it is probably | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
necessary because it is sensible financially but not sensible | :09:18. | :09:19. | |
politically but they just don't have the money, they didn't expect the | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
election, we were told to have a fixed term parliaments of five | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
years, and we have had in Scotland, we have had six major elections in | :09:28. | :09:29. | |
the thousand days. As you said, the we have had six major elections in | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
Green party is not funded by billionaires and millionaires and | :09:36. | :09:37. | |
they just don't have the resources to do that. But if you want to be | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
seen to be taken seriously... You've just got to do it. I think we saw | :09:43. | :09:49. | |
that in the 2015 general election, 32 candidates in as many | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
constituency. I hate to use this word, it is now polarised politics | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
in Scotland. With the Greens, they might want to save money, why would | :10:00. | :10:00. | |
they stand in a seat against might want to save money, why would | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
independent campaigners? That is the thing. Hang on. Patrick Harvie said | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
that was not happening. What do you make of it so far, the campaign in | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
general bastion Mark it's not really started? I felt it had wouldn't | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
really started until about the middle of Thursday when the Labour | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
manifesto had been leaked, and it suddenly began to be apparent that | :10:29. | :10:31. | |
there were quite a lot of things in that manifesto that at least some | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
people were quite interested in discussing, and it seemed to be a | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
better reaction to it as opposed to the policies, but fairly | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
centre-left, left manifesto, a good reaction to the policies from the | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
public, that they were expecting and at that moment the election came | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
alive a little bit because it seemed like there might be an election, not | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
that Jeremy Corbyn could win but one which would actually change the | :10:57. | :10:58. | |
terms of UK politics. Because of the which would actually change the | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
content of the labour manifesto, which is reducing ideas into the | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
British politics Milliyet which haven't been there since the Tony | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
Blair period. If you are the Tories, do you think they will feel and | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
Blair period. If you are the Tories, obligation to come out with | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
interesting policies of their own? Or is it all about Theresa May and | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
Scotland is all about opposing an independence referendum in, he | :11:26. | :11:32. | |
strong stable government etc? I think were a strategic point of view | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
I think absolutely. I agree with what Joyce is saying, the Labour | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
manifesto leak has introduced the idea of policy into this campaign | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
and that is interesting. From a Tory strategic point of view absolutely | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
strong and stable as opposed to, well, weak and chaotic, and let us | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
find out with the Labour launch manifesto later this week how much | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
the leak document have actually made it into the final manifesto. There | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
is a lot of infighting still going on with Labour, and I think the | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
Tories just need to stand aside, and let Labour carry on as they have | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
Tories just need to stand aside, and been. Are Labour polls closing the | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
gap? I cope, the gap is huge but it is still closing. Of course they can | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
say look, in actual event -- elections, they have done better | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
than the polls have said. I think they will do better than what was | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
predicted, I think it would be devastating enough for Jeremy Corbyn | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
do have to resign if he really doesn't want to, and I think it will | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
attract that source of quarter to a third of British people who are | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
still really interested in social justice, and a shift back to the | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
left, but it won't attract the rest of the people and their from -- from | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
a burst past the post system I don't see how the Conservatives can't win. | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
Do you think this is a good opportunity for them? Or is there | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
not much in them. There is nowhere for the SNP to go after that extra | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
my performance in 2015, except down. They're going to lose some seat but | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
probably as not as many of the Tories would like. It seems to me | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
that the SNP in particular would really rather not to have to sit. Is | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
there a way they could turn this to their advantage? I'm sure they will, | :13:27. | :13:33. | |
but I see how they can. If they were going to, I think they would have | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
done it by now. There is not much glory in this selection for the SNP, | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
there is going to be basically another referendum, and it is going | :13:43. | :13:44. | |
to follow those lines. Prounion parties, and independence parties. | :13:45. | :13:51. | |
We will have to leave that there. That's all from us this week, I will | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
see you next Sunday. Goodbye. | :13:56. | :13:59. |