02/06/2013 Sunday Politics South East

the latest scandals will finally force the Government to act.

It's not the best day for MPs to complain about expenses, but many

are angry about the new system. Expect fighting talk.

And in the south-east: It is revealed that police have drawn

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2447 seconds

tasers against under 18 is more than reports of a failed leadership coup

takeover. Is the Green party on the verge of imploding?

They say politics makes for strange bedfellows. We have to for you this

week. Tracy Crouch, a Conservative MP, and in Labour representative.

You are talking about childcare issues. The Deputy Prime Minister

was in Kent this week promoting the governments plans to provide some

households with a limited amount of free nursery care. Nick Clegg said

that more than 3000 children in the county would benefit. However,

critics said they would have to axe full-day sessions. I was first

informed of this change by a parent who contacted me who said they had

been informed by the nursery that they had instituted changes. I don't

think it is very good for local community integration. Who is more

important here? The very poor two-year-olds who will get this

care, or the middle-class kids who would go there anyway? I don't think

it isn't either or option. Chatham has one of the highest rates of

deprivation in the country. To have a solution from the Government

saying that some children can come here and some can't, that's really

unacceptable. Nick Clegg told me this week that he fills the

Government is taking big steps to make childcare unaffordable. Is that

the truth, Tracy Crouch? I think it is a step forward, but I think

across Europe, there is a far different approach to providing

childcare, and I think you have to look at particular areas. If you

take the case of Chatham, this is a low income area. This is not a

wealthy area. Would you bring back universal free childcare? I think

you must look very carefully. One thing we have been arguing for a

locally and nationally is to get people back to work, and one of the

biggest problems people have is the childcare issue. Thank you for

that. Staying with children, children as young as 16 have been

tasered by Kent police. In Kent and Surrey, tasers have been drawn

against, and used, against people aged under 18 70 times in the past

two years. It has also been revealed that almost half of the people who

tasers were used against had mental health issues.

I am a taser Officer! This is a taser. Firing needles charged with

50,000 volt, it can incapacitate its target immediately. More and more

police officers in the south-east are using them, but there is concern

about whether they are being deployed appropriately, particularly

against teenagers. Under the Freedom Of Information Act, we have learnt

that tasers were drawn or fired against teenagers more than 72 times

in the past three years. People as young as 16 have been tasered by

police, and children aged just 14 or 15 have been threatened with them.

Sussex police say they do not believe teenagers have been tasered

since 2010. Tasers were introduced only to be

used in extreme situations. We have seen cases, however, are teenagers

who have had them used on them for being drunk, verbally abusive, or

being on a railway line. It is hardly a life-threatening

incident... We're not talking about a modern-day truncheon, we are

talking about a 50,000 volt assault weapon. In America, they have been

linked to 500 different deaths. That must be a big concern. You're

talking about young people here are very vulnerable. I can speak to the

leading personal injury lawyer in the south-east. I am surprised and

slightly disappointed that the use is on children when the guidelines

clearly say that children are in a specific group, they are vulnerable

because of the likelihood that they could have... They are highly likely

to have a cardiac arrest is a teaser is username, or they are likely to

suffer head injuries. Kent police or that tasers are safe and often

effective against teenagers as a threat, so firing them is rare. But

these new figures come just months after it was revealed that half of

the people tasered in Kent and almost half in Sussex were mentally

ill. They would rather tasered and the next stage would be... Tasers

used to only be issued to specially trained firearms officers, but now

hundreds of regular police officers are carrying them when they respond

to emergency calls. You then have the option to arm the taser, and the

last step is deployment. In Sussex, 164 regular officers are now

undergoing training. It is a strict four-day training course. We put our

officers under a significant amount of pressure. Campaigners say that is

not enough. Firearms officer will be trained for months and months and be

reassessed constantly. What are looking at now is people going out

with tasers who have only had three or four days of training. That is

why you see them using them against young people at inappropriate times

in inappropriate circumstances. Police officers argue that tasers

protect them and the public, and that they cause less harm than bat

on, pepper spray, are gone. The Surrey police commissioner says he

wants more people to happen. Police unions want every police officer to

carry one. But the wider use of tasers worries at least one Sussex

MP. The more there are, the more readily they will be used, and that

is not good police activity. The skill of a police officer is to be

able to come situation down without using weapons, and the danger is if

that someone who is not trained in a firearm use of such a weapon, it

could exacerbate the situation. more tasers are issued to regular

officers, but the risk of Debbie used against young and vulnerable

people increase, and could the use of such a powerful weapon eventually

lead to someone being seriously injured?

Joining us now is the Seri Police And Crime Commissioner. Is staging a

child ever justified? -- is teetering a child ever justified?

Let's put that in perspective. Mostly it is teenagers. Teenagers

have played rugby for England, they have fought for England. When you're

talking about a large and disordered teenager, they can hurt you a lot

and hurt themselves a lot. We ask our police officers, and this is

what the public tell me, the electing public, they want police to

keep them safe. Our police cannot keep them safe unless they have

adequate equipment to do so. Can I just finished? I really want to be

clear about the circumstances. When is it OK? In our report, we heard

about a 14-year-old girl in Surrey who was self harming and was

threatened with a taser. Two other teenagers were drive stunned.

The alternative is that they can be beaten with a metal bar, sprayed

with pepper spray, requiring hospitalisation. The police officer

might have to punch or kick them, or they can have a low 50,000 volt

shock which, after five seconds, is all over. Curious that he missed the

other alternative, which is to try and reason with a 14-year-old child.

We all know that the obvious approach is to moderate in a

compassionate and dignified way and try and talk the situation down.

Please do not be silly. What we are dealing with, what we want, as a

moderate approach that does not involve physical force. But should

physical force be necessary, regardless of who it is being used

on, we want to minimise injury to them, injury to the public, and

injury to the officer. We saw someone they are saying that the

risk of a child having a cardiac arrest with a taser is high. We also

spoke to a mental health charity, who told us that tasers user mental

health patients can make this situation even more traumatic.

stay with teenagers... Forgive me, a 14-year-old is a child. OK, OK, we

will talk about being threatened with a taser. A taser is armed and a

red dot appears wherever it is aimed. People see that and then they

think, OK, I will not do that. It is a way for police to calm people

down. I wish people would stop being so naive about what is required to

control and naive -- were cried to control a dangerous person. We want

our police to protect us. Violent crime in Surrey is down

year-on-year. Surrey has among the lowest levels of violent crime

anywhere in the country. You are calling for more of your officers to

have tasers. With the evidence not suggest the opposite? No, because

you have completely missed the point. Taser is the least dangerous

way of applying physical force to a human body. But why do we always

need physical force? Let me answer again. We want a moderate and

measured approach. Negotiation is always best, but there comes a time

when you have to apply physical force. I do worry about the

possibility of a death in Surrey? In America, 500 deaths have been linked

to tasers. Let me just make the other point, as well as the risk of

death, people can experience Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from bold

miscarriage -- bolt miscarriage. course I am worried about serious

injury. Tasers reduce the risk of serious injury. But you are only

giving officers three days of training... Can I finish my point?

It is the least dangerous way of applying force. Most people

surrender when a taser is drawn. You do not need to strike them or spray

them, they generally give up. After the taser has been fired, they fall

down, they are handcuffed, and it is all over. If they are struck with a

stick or other physical force, they generally require medical treatment.

A taser is the least dangerous form of physical force. You make that

point repeatedly. Thank you. Let's put that -- let's put these points

to our guests. The violent crime is down in Surrey.

However, some police unions want all police officers to be issued with

tasers. Do you agree with that? I do not see the need for the police

often is to have tasers in the same way I do not see the need for them

to have guns. Tasers are important, however. I think it is incredibly

important when a police officer arrives at a situation, they must

judge it as it is presented to them, and quite often children as young as

14 can be self harming and a taser is designed to incapacitate that

person so that an officer can deal with them. Obviously, I would like

to see them try and talk to that person first. The mental health

charity that we spoke to thinks that is the wrong way to tackle it. Half

of the tasers use in the last year in Kent were used on people who were

mentally ill. Does that worry you? This gives me great cause for

concern. Something like a taser, a powerful weapon, and there is just a

few days training given. Some of that trees are -- some of that

training must involve when not to use the taser. Thank you. Now, two

years after the Queen Party took over Brighton Council, the party is

covered by infighting. Ivy green Party in Brighton, the first to gain

control of a local authority in the country, about to implode? I am

joined now by a Green Party representative. Was there a coup?

No. We are a different kind of politics here. Within our politics,

we talk about our differences not behind closed doors. At the same

time, it is perfectly true that a single councillor got in touch with

an opposition councillor and made some proposals, but at the same

time, she has now accepted that that was a naive thing to do. She has

apologised profusely. To be clear, she tweeted. This is Alex Phillips.

I can't imagine... Your leader described this is disappointing.

Behind closed doors, he must have been furious. You must see this in

the context of her being just one councillor who did this. Most other

parties would kick around. They would discipline her in some way.

do not operate on that kind of level. She has apologised absolutely

everybody. She has written individual letters to every

councillor to apologise for this act. So, you can say that she has

seen the error of her ways and I don't think the opposition

councillor comes up very well either, because he was leaking

correspondence which was confidential between the two of them

in order to score a political point. It would be quite irresistible. The

City Council leader, the Green Party leader, and Caroline Lucas, the

Green Party MP, this cannot have improved their relationship. Their

relationship is quite good, actually. It is a robust

relationship because they must work together. Additionally, Caroline is

not a member of the council. It is quite common up and then the country

for an MP and a council to have disagreements on the way forward,

but in this case, sorry... I am intrigued, I am really intrigued,

how you govern a big city like Brighton is no clear sense of

loyalty within the ranks. Everyone can have their own opinions. It is

fascinating, but actually, is it good for Brighton and Hove? I think

it is very good for the city in the way that we do it. We are more

transparent than other parties. With other parties, you get a situation

where the leader of the party makes a declaration that everybody else

posting to line because otherwise, they risk their jobs. If you look at

the Labour party a few years ago, the leaders decided that something

had to be done, decided something on his own, and the end result of that

was the Iraq war. We have a situation where people are

re-elected every year, and it is fully representative. It strikes me

in the case of a member of the Green Party was anti-gay marriage, she was

not made to feel welcome in the party because her opinions on

equality did not line up with the general principles of the party. So,

it seems you can have opinions on almost everything, but not

everything. That was a different situation. It is not that she was

not made to feel welcome, she is no longer cancer, but she is still a

member the Green Party. If it had just been her views on equal

marriage, it would have been fine. There were a lot of other things.

Stay with us. Let's bring in our other guests. Thence, what would you

have done? You were the leader of the Labour group on the council. If

one of your fellow Labour councillors was treating about

this... There are very clear rules about this. There is a clear process

for how we deal with that. At the moment, in our council, we can see

to Conservative councillors, colleagues, having a fight in the

local newspaper. No party is immune to this. We are very clear on how we

deal with things, however. Tracy Crouch, what do you make the way --

what do you make of the way the Green Party operate? I think it is

very interesting. With the three main political parties, you know

what you're getting. I think on the whole, the three main political

parties are often well disciplined and well behaved. There are of

course issues that divide individuals within the party, but we

have policy. How often do you disagree with David Cameron? Well,

there have been some disagreements and my voting record shows that. But

actually, quite often, a lot of discussion takes place

behind-the-scenes and not in public, which can actually enhance

the policy going forward. That is the difference here. Whether it

happens behind closed doors or not. Is it not to the detriment of the

party to wash its dirty linen in public? I don't think so. One of the

things about democracy, you know what you're getting with the

Conservatives with something but not like Europe, but when you say that

you know what you're getting, with the Green Party, everything comes up

from the bottom. The leaders are elected regularly. The party is

governing the direction of the party rather than the leader taking it

with a wanted to go. Thank you very much indeed. It is time now for a

round-up of the week's other political events.

ANC at the Maritime Hospital is dangerously unsafe. The hospital is

under pressure but says that it is safe. Developers want to bring a

brand-new town in the countryside just north of Brighton. It is hoped

the town will create jobs and ease the housing crisis, but you by

residents are not impressed. should be totally dismissed. It is a

crazy idea, and I cannot believe it. And as for shale gas could be coming

to the south-east. Greenpeace has identified 16 constituencies in Kent

and Sussex which could become home to fracking sites. And in Brighton,

as the bedroom tax begins to bite, a house hunting event has been held.

People are downsizing to avoid the tax. We are now in a three-bedroom

house and the family home that we can keep. It is brilliant. My health

and safety raider was screaming now at that man and his trampling, but

we will not focus on that. Let's start with the Maritime Hospital.

am very concerned. All Accident and Emergency departments are under

pressure and it is a consequence of a broken system as a whole. I have

discovered that that hospital spent �350,000 on extra staff in Accident

and Emergency last year. Money does not solve the problem. It is not

necessarily about the money. That unit was built to serve 50,000

patients per year, but it is currently serving 90,000. Very

quickly, the house swap. That looks at you brilliant opportunity.

Anything that can get waiting list and, in Medway, we have 70,000