15/09/2013 Sunday Politics South East

BBC 1 888

is on the table. Who would you rather play table football against?

because I am winning. So in the winning 's which ones are heading

popular policy was a mansion tax on house is worth more than £2 million,

popular policy was a mansion tax on councillors. The next most popular

policy was scrapping the Trident nuclear deterrent, supported by

policy was scrapping the Trident of councillors. Then there was the

reinstatement of the 50p top rate of income tax. 70% of councillors like

the look of that. When it came to the idea of banning the burka in

public places like schools and airports, 45% of councillors were in

favour. Finally, a ban on topless Page three model is won the support

of 33% of councillors. Why is it so popular, the idea of a mansion tax?

It is a much fairer tax. We know there are people out there with

It is a much fairer tax. We know expensive houses. Which of these is

most important to you? Banning Trident. The cold war ended in

1989. Another one was the idea of banning the burka in public places.

whatever they like. If they want to banning the burka in public places.

wear the birth or a kilt or if they anything. We are the party of jobs.

Thank you. Last night, a fully clothed Nick Clegg rallied his

troops, but if he was not around, who would Lib Dem councillors want

instead? Business Secretary Vince Cable was most popular, with a third

of the votes. In second place, the party's president, Tim Farron, with

27%. 10% went to Danny Alexander, while the business minister Joe

Swinson received 7%. The Energy Secretary Ed Davey scooped 6%, and

in last place, Steve Webb, the pensions minister, who got 5%. If

any of these councillors want to talk to me about it, I would be

delighted to hear from them. Is talk to me about it, I would be

certainly isn't. What do you think contenders. But our survey is not

the only one that has got tongues wagging in Glasgow, because the

the only one that has got tongues Dem leadership have commissioned

their own poll which showed that 75% Dem leadership have commissioned

of the country will never vote Dem leadership have commissioned

the party, no matter what they do. Also meeting here this weekend,

the party, no matter what they do. Democrats like to think they have

got just as much va-va-voom, even if a big chunk of the country doesn't.

Add, back in his hometown. So, the Much of their party thinks they

Add, back in his hometown. So, the moving in the wrong direction.

Earlier, I spoke to former party moving in the wrong direction.

leader Paddy Ashdown. He has been put in charge of heading up the

leader Paddy Ashdown. He has been election campaign. I asked him if

the mood in Glasgow was grim. No. In many ways, as you know, Tory old

commentator that you are just as I am a hoary old member at the other

end of the camera, we have been midterm of a government, especially

when you are in government and the country is going for in a deep

economic crisis, has almost no relevance to where you might be

economic crisis, has almost no the nipple come to consider how

economic crisis, has almost no will vote in 600 days time -- when

the people come to consider how will vote in 600 days time -- when

will vote. We do not dismiss polls, but they are a snapshot of what

will vote. We do not dismiss polls, indication of where we will be.

will vote. We do not dismiss polls, guess is, for what it is worth,

will vote. We do not dismiss polls, as we come to the election, the

public will be in a very serious, probably frightened mood. Their

public will be in a very serious, thoughts will be, who maintains

public will be in a very serious, job, makes sure I don't have to

public will be in a very serious, to higher mortgage? The coalition

has delivered not only the required policies to make Britain's economy

prosperous, but also its society fair. That is what people will want

to see. I think coalition politics are here to stay and we have a role

to play in it. But you are in a are here to stay and we have a role

mood this morning. You tweeted that you were not happy with how the

Observer newspaper handled your there anything we can do to help?

There is probably something they arguments with the interview. The

headline they chose to put on it late last night was outrageous,

misrepresentative and in one case in Something about Ashdown wants a

coalition with the Tories, or at Something about Ashdown wants a

least they gave that in for us Something about Ashdown wants a

inference. Let me make this point. election. I am in charge of the

campaign. Any journalist who in these next two years says that any

Liberal Democrat prefers anything else in terms of the outcome of

Liberal Democrat prefers anything coalition but the result of the

ballot box dictating that outcome, that any prefer one side to another

coalition determined by the electors that any prefer one side to another

in the votes, will get a bloody that any prefer one side to another

time from me, no matter who they are. We take the warning. A survey

of Lib Dem councillors shows that in coalition with the Tories. That

of Lib Dem councillors shows that in clear sign that your activists want

a change of direction. I don't think it is news that as a left-wing

party, we find it more congenial with those on the left wing, but

that is not the issue. You saw it election. We are servants of the

ballot box. We do watch the British people require us to do to provide a

of our country. I am sure you have stable government in the interests

of our country. I am sure you have got the point by now. I have fought

the Tories all my life. But when responsibility to amend the economic

crisis, was this right for the determine who are going to be in any

coalition, should there be one, determine who are going to be in any

voters and nobody else. It is not about what we like. I understand

that. But your own internal polls leadership are not taking the party

with them on that. I don't think that is true. Nick Clegg has done

what no other party leader has done. He took the coalition agreement

what no other party leader has done. the party, and they voted for it. So

it is not true to say that members different direction. I think we

it is not true to say that members extraordinarily united. I did not

expect them to be so under these pressures, but they have surprised

me and made me joyful at the same time. The party has done what it

done in local government for a long time. We may have our private likes

and dislikes, but the thing that coalition is the ballot box. You

have said that three times. I can say it again if you like. Please

don't! What if your party votes say it again if you like. Please

reinstate tuition fees as party policy afternoon? We will have to

listen to that and act accordingly. You must listen to the voice of

listen to that and act accordingly. party and take it into account in

what you do. I am always quite answering hypothetical questions. I

don't think it is likely to happen, but if it did, we would have to

don't think it is likely to happen, distinguished Lib Dems was that

don't think it is likely to happen, your party conference voted for

something, it was in the manifesto. The manifesto is taken in its final

form before the party for decision. The party will express views at

form before the party for decision. stage in all sorts of ways. It did

in my leadership, too. The manifesto is democratically agreed by the

party at the time of the election, not before. The Tory conference

party at the time of the election, be about how they think they have

been vindicated, that austerity be about how they think they have

worked, the economy is turning a corner. But Nick Clegg's conference

announcements will be about plastic bags. Have you got the hang of this

coalition think? Andrew, you can always be guaranteed to put things

in the most discreditable form! always be guaranteed to put things

is part of your charm. That was about to be a minor announcement in

discovered beforehand. It has not the middle of his speech. But it was

discovered beforehand. It has not been very popular in terms of how it

has been received, but that is not the central message. That leads

has been received, but that is not to what I think is the biggest

election. Isn't the biggest danger that the Tories, not you, if there

is an economic recovery, they will get the credit for it? I don't think

think the electorate does gratitude. The only time people cast a thank

Thatcher over the sale of council houses. We could have a different

discussion over whether that was a good idea. But what you have done is

the underpinning for the promise of government, we have stayed firm

the underpinning for the promise of very tough economic policy. But

the underpinning for the promise of you get the credit? What we have

done by ourselves, which the Tories would never have done, is make sure

that when the pain is felt, it is not the poor who feel it. We have

seen the biggest shift of taxation, lifting the poorest in the country

out of taxation, that has ever happened, including in the previous

Labour government. You are presiding over the biggest squeeze on living

standards in modern times. Because it is the biggest recession in

modern times. When you speak to it is the biggest recession in

2.5 million people who have been lifted out of taxation altogether

because of the Liberal Democrats, tax cut. You may be able to make the

because of the Liberal Democrats, connection, Andrew, you are a sharp

economic crisis and difficulty for everybody. But it is clear that

economic crisis and difficulty for the Tories had been by themselves,

none of that would have happened. We have sought to shift the burden

none of that would have happened. We from the poorest in this country. I

am part of that. So when we go into the next election, the message will

am part of that. So when we go into be that if you want to continue

am part of that. So when we go into have a prosperous economy and a

society, only the Liberal Democrats will deliver that. Tim Farron says

want to diss him. Can you confirm he likes Ed Miliband and he does not

want to diss him. Can you confirm that there will be no dissing of Ed

Miliband? It is not much my style. I've never much liked comments about

the other leaders. I do not intend to make it so in the future. Can I'd

finish up on Syria? You said after the Syria vote that Britain was

finish up on Syria? You said after hugely diminished country. Given it

both sides on a course which could now see Syria give up chemical

weapons without records to military action, would you like to withdraw

these remarks and admit that you should be proud and happy with what

Britain has done? No. You and I should be proud and happy with what

know, because we are old observers, that that would never have happened

underpinning of a threat to use resigned from that. We have no part

to play in the fact that Assad and Putin have moved towards peace for

to play in the fact that Assad and fear of military action. We decided

exactly the opposite. Why would fear of military action. We decided

liked to have seen our country join in with those who are serious about

upholding an international law which has restrained even than axes and

left others to make sure that we talent, but instead we resigned

left others to make sure that we moved towards peace. -- even the

Maxis and Stalin. But if it had moved towards peace. -- even the

would not have had the time to allow this to happen. It has avoided war.

Job done, British Parliament. That would be true if it was accurate but

it is not. The resolution proposed a delay, that we should wait until the

inspectors came back. That time frame was absolutely nothing to

inspectors came back. That time with the parliamentary vote. The

vote was going to incorporate that. I do not think you can claim what

vote was going to incorporate that. remember that diplomacy, which was

not reinforced by the threat of military action, does not work.

not reinforced by the threat of is when diplomacy runs with a grain

of military action that it works. illustration of that, look at what

is happening over the last two weeks. By regret to say that our

country, which has always been in disengagement, had no part to play

And you we would get to the Balkans eventually, and we did. His biggest

challenge is if the economy is get some credit for the Lib Dems,

when the Tories will want to halt it all. But his position is not to

when the Tories will want to halt it the necessary axeman. That is George

Osborne's role. Their role is to be Osborne's role. Their role is to be

the chaser party, taking the edge off. They will because of me going

on about the pupil premium and That is what you will hear from

of the cuts. Will that work? They them, how they have taken the edge

of the cuts. Will that work? They are in a pretty good position. Even

if they have lost two thirds of are in a pretty good position. Even

popular support, according to the polls, I do not know anyone in

Westminster methinks that will be matched in their parliamentary

representation. If they have 56 matched in their parliamentary

now, they might lose a dozen but Strategically, they are in a better

position than the reading of the polls would tell you. I think Nick

Clegg's survival has been one of the stories of this Parliament. He is

looking good at the comfort -- at the conference. When he was at his

lowest after the AV referendum, people were saying he would survive

I thought that was fanciful. Believe and lead us into 2015 and beyond and

I thought that was fanciful. Believe it or not... Paddy Ashdown was

wrong, you were wrong and... I wasn't. I'm underestimated how bad

his rivals are. If you are Lib Dem member, however aggrieved you are

with Nick Clegg, you do not think, wouldn't it be great if Christian

was in charge? Nick Clegg is the best they have. -- Chris Huhne was

in charge. Of course, the people do in charge. Of course, the people do

government and it is a consequence of the way they vote, a different

matter. If Janan Ganesh is right, and they lose 15 seats in the next

pivotal in the next government. It Possibly the most amusing outcome

would be a Labour or Tory overall majority, which would be hilarious

for the look on Paddy Ashdown's face. The danger is they get trapped

constantly in talking about the politics of coalition and of a hung

parliament. And they are very puffed politics of coalition and of a hung

parliament. And they are very puffed up and they enjoy Parliament and

there is a possibility they will not be. While they are talking about the

Polish and themselves, they are be. While they are talking about the

talking about the issues facing be. While they are talking about the

coalition. It was interesting that he said that we are a left-wing

party, not a centre-left party or a centre party, but a left-wing party.

I'm going to put myself in the firing line and say that there is a

big split between the Tim Farron line who say they like Ed Miliband,

and another one, Jeremy Browne in the Home Office saying that Labour

are intellectually lazy. The risk clearly a clique around Nick Clegg

who wants to be a synthetic party, but that is not where the membership

who wants to be a synthetic party, activists are clearly of the left,

not just the centre-left. They are very pro-immigration and they want

strategy has to be to take the party to the centre. The something not

happen at some stage? The poll suggests it is a left-wing party.

happen at some stage? The poll Very left-wing. Other think the

happen at some stage? The poll would have yielded -- would have

yielded the same results before would have yielded -- would have

2010 election. This is reflected by the arithmetic. Whichever party

2010 election. This is reflected by biggest will most likely be the

2010 election. This is reflected by in coalition with the Lib Dems.

2010 election. This is reflected by Clegg's on latitude to choose is

exaggerated by us. The choice is no parliamentary arithmetic. But if you

remember the structure of the Lib Dems, they can tie themselves up in

infighting. -- the choice is not stable. And Nick Clegg has had a

good conference last year, and will have another one this year. The

economy is better than it was a have another one this year. The

ago. It could still go quite well for him. Yes, it is one of the

ago. It could still go quite well stories of this Parliament, his

survival and the way in which he has prospered. But there are a lot of

campaigners, labour activists who have not forgotten what he has done

in government and are determined to get him. It will be a tough year and

a half. Tougher than he imagined. Now, not so long ago they were

writing George Osborne's political obituary. Be on the Omni shambles

budget of 2012 and a lacklustre performance of the British economy

meant his reputation work -- was in the dirt. -- the omnishambles. But

things have changed. The Chancellor is saying he has been vindicated. If

runway, it looks as though the British economy has taken off,

quarter. Forecasts for the rest British economy has taken off,

the year have been revised up words. What's more, the office for National

recession never actually happened. Unemployment is down in the three

months to July and the number of spasticity rate since 1997. On

Monday, George Osborne said his policies were bearing fruit. We

Monday, George Osborne said his our nerve when many told us to

abandon our plans. As a result, thanks to the efforts and sacrifices

of the British people, Britain is turning a corner. The message for

his Labour critics was clear. The Chancellor thinks he was right and

Good afternoon. Good afternoon.Do you accept that the economy has

turned a corner? I think it is good that a stalled recovery appears

turned a corner? I think it is good get this in perspective. We have had

three wasted years. We have the worst economic recovery in history.

Debt is up and we have record youth programme if they feel better or

worse off, compared to 2010, the majority will tell you they feel

worse because, on average, wages are down by £1500 compared to May of

2010. That is the situation. The one of the things we have seen

talked about, Vince Cable has been talking about this as well, is what

is happening in the housing market. It seems that much of the solution

to powering the recovery in the It seems that much of the solution

of George Osborne lies in sorting out the housing market but the

problem is, we are at risk of being another housing bubble. Because

problem is, we are at risk of being research that came out this week, we

know that housing in the UK is three times more expensive than in the US.

know that housing in the UK is three We know that house prices are rising

five times faster than wages, but we also know that the government is

five times faster than wages, but we building new housing at a slower

rate, the slowest rate that we have complaining about a housing bubble,

isn't that like Satan complaining about seven? -- seven. We all know

that we cannot go back to business as usual. We need to build a new

model of growth. But the housing bubble you talk about, it is not a

bubble. It might turn into one. bubble you talk about, it is not a

said the risk of a bubble. It is nothing like what happened on the

I said, in 2009, we had the crash and we knew we needed to reconfigure

the way that our economy works. Having an economy based on crisis is

rebalance the economy. We saw the unemployment statistics this week,

and it is welcomed overall, that unemployment has come down. At half

up. And it went down in other parts. We know that we need to rebalance

our economy, so that we do not just rely on consumption, but that we

grow our productive sectors. And also that we grow our exports as

well. We know we have a continuing deficit. We always have a trade

deficit. There was never a trade surplus under Labour. Want to come

onto what you have mentioned but would you scrap the help to buy

scheme? We have not said that we would you scrap the help to buy

scheme? We have not said that we would do that. Why not if it is

causing the bubble? If you let me finish, on one hand what that scheme

does at the moment, at the moment it is inhalation to a new scheme but

tomorrow -- next year it will be in you do not sort out the supply of

housing, then that is a recipe for the problems we have seen. Our

argument is build more houses. Help more people to buy them by all means

but if you do not have the supply more people to buy them by all means

but if you do not have the supply you will end up with rising prices.

That is obvious. Labour said that government austerity would prevent

the return of growth. Austerity government austerity would prevent

were wrong. We never said that growth would never return. What

were wrong. We never said that said was that if you went for an

were wrong. We never said that overly extreme deficit reduction

recovery and you would choke growth. That is what we saw for three years.

If you say, look at the US economy, it has grown at three times the

If you say, look at the US economy, economy has grown at twice the rate.

But the British economy is growing quicker than the American or German

economy is now. But over time we have not seen that happen. But it is

now. That may be the case. But my point is that those three years

now. That may be the case. But my people undergoing huge stress and

worry. It is good that we have growth back again but the question

is, what kind of growth? What we have said... I'm going to come onto

that but your credibility depends on your previous analysis. And there

are doubts about it. This is what you said not that long ago. In

You and the Labour Party said it had choked off growth. You were wrong.

We were not wrong, because we choked off growth. You were wrong.

three years where the economy was not moving. Let's remind ourselves.

three years where the economy was Claude Osborne was

three years where the economy was the economy was going to grow by

6.9% between the the economy was going to grow by

Parliament and now. It has grown by 1.8%. We did not

Parliament and now. It has grown by have a return to growth. You

Parliament and now. It has grown by said that austerity would only

Parliament and now. It has grown by temporarily delay growth. We have

looked through your speeches and temporarily delay growth. We have

Balls'. We can't find any reference to say this is simply delaying the

recovery. You said austerity to say this is simply delaying the

choke off growth. If that to say this is simply delaying the

why has it returned now? Did we say it would choke off growth for ever?

why has it returned now? Did we say We did not. You have changed your

tune. I think your package at We did not. You have changed your

top of this programme, to frame We did not. You have changed your

around George Osborne, this is not a We did not. You have changed your

Westminster soap opera, it is people's lives, and the people who

deserve huge credit for the people's lives, and the people who

we are seeing are our country's businesses, who despite the

we are seeing are our country's economic times, have succeeded. They

we are seeing are our country's are the ones who have powered this

growth. It is not for us in are the ones who have powered this

Westminster to take credit. are the ones who have powered this

blame the government for lack of growth. So therefore, when

blame the government for lack of growth comes, the government has

blame the government for lack of take some credit. Look at the

situation Britain is in now. We take some credit. Look at the

the recovery still has to take some credit. Look at the

parts of the country, but this is the OECD annualised growth in the

parts of the country, but this is G-7, the world's guest economies.

parts of the country, but this is That is looking pretty healthy. That

parts of the country, but this is is a recovery. I am not

parts of the country, but this is we are seeing a stalled recovery,

parts of the country, but this is but who benefits from the growth? On

average, your viewers have sustained a £1500 pay cut. That is the second

biggest fall in the G20 since a £1500 pay cut. That is the second

2010. Because we had the biggest financial services sector and took

the financial services sector and took

services are still in decline. Financial services are about 10%

services are still in decline. the economy. They are not the only

services are still in decline. contributor to the economy.

services are still in decline. point is, who benefits?

services are still in decline. is falling, but we don't just want

services are still in decline. people to have any job, we want them

to have decent jobs that pay people to have any job, we want them

weight you can live off and that are people to have any job, we want them

more secure. Let me show people to have any job, we want them

unemployment figures. Your criticism people to have any job, we want them

has been that all the new jobs are part-time. They are not now, they

are full-time. Full-time unemployment, up -- full-time

employment, up 94,000. This is a short time frame. It is

employment, up 94,000. This is a recovery began. Half the

employment, up 94,000. This is a have been created since

employment, up 94,000. This is a have been part-time jobs. Roughly

employment, up 94,000. This is a 107,000 people are working part-time

who would like to work 107,000 people are working part-time

Over the last 20 years, 107,000 people are working part-time

feel more insecure at work than ever. The question is about what

feel more insecure at work than kind of growth

feel more insecure at work than are getting. The other point is the

uneven spread of this across our economy. In places like the

uneven spread of this across our north-east and north-west, the

Humber, the east of north-east and north-west, the

have seen unemployment increase. north-east and north-west, the

agree that there was a regional imbalance, but the service sector is

growing, cheering and construction are growing and financial services

growing, cheering and construction are in decline, so the rebalance is

happening. It is not happening to the degree we need to transform

happening. It is not happening to economy so that we have a

long-term, sustainable model of growth. That is why we

long-term, sustainable model of comprehensive industrial

long-term, sustainable model of that all of government works

towards. Your party conference is that all of government works

coming up. I am sure you are looking forward to it. Why do Ed Miliband's

coming up. I am sure you are looking approval ratings get worse the more

coming up. I am sure you are looking people see of him? I don't accept

that. I have given you the figures. people see of him? I don't accept

Polls go up and down. I have people see of him? I don't accept

that on this programme before. people see of him? I don't accept

his approval rating has people see of him? I don't accept

gone down. What actually matters our votes. Under Ed Miliband's

gone down. What actually matters our leadership, the Labour Party

gone down. What actually matters our put on almost 2000 extra councillors

in places like Canada case, even put on almost 2000 extra councillors

Whitney. What is wrong with Whitney? put on almost 2000 extra councillors

We have been putting on votes. Let me show you this. This

We have been putting on votes. Let satisfaction rating. Your leader

We have been putting on votes. Let now more unpopular than Gordon Brown

was when he took Labour to the worst now more unpopular than Gordon Brown

defeat in living memory. Gordon Brown did not put on anything

defeat in living memory. Gordon this number of councillors. Votes

defeat in living memory. Gordon are what matter, Andrew. Few

defeat in living memory. Gordon think Ed Miliband is a capable

defeat in living memory. Gordon leader. Twice as many people

defeat in living memory. Gordon over Spurs who lives on the moon.

defeat in living memory. Gordon These are polls. If you are talking

to me about over Spurs lit, that puts this into context, Europe

to me about over Spurs lit, that session with polls! -- Elvis

Presley. Since 2010, we have put on session with polls! -- Elvis

thousands of members. Compare that session with polls! -- Elvis

to the Conservative Party, which session with polls! -- Elvis

not won a general election since 1992. They will not disclose their

not won a general election since membership figures. Why -- why won't

you pledge to renationalise Royal membership figures. Why -- why won't

Mail? Because that would be like membership figures. Why -- why won't

writing a blank cheque. We don't know at the moment how

writing a blank cheque. We don't government would receive

writing a blank cheque. We don't sale of Royal Mail? So how can

writing a blank cheque. We don't judge how much it would cost to

writing a blank cheque. We don't it back? That would be

irresponsible. But the government does not need to do this right now.

irresponsible. But the government The entire country is against it.

irresponsible. But the government Sources in the City and Whitehall

irresponsible. But the government tell me that if Labour pledged

irresponsible. But the government renationalise it, it would kill off

the flotation. So if you renationalise it, it would kill off

it, why don't you do it? For me to renationalise it, it would kill off

pledge to renationalise renationalise it, it would kill off

would be like writing a blank cheque. But if you put it

would be like writing a blank prospectus, people in the City, who

know more about these things, prospectus, people in the City, who

would not happen, so why not do it? prospectus, people in the City, who

Because that would be prospectus, people in the City, who

It would be like writing a cheque for billions to renationalise Royal

It would be like writing a cheque Mail. You would not have too

It would be like writing a cheque at the check if it did not happen. I

It would be like writing a cheque have to deal with the facts. I

It would be like writing a cheque not good deal with the plot somebody

It would be like writing a cheque might be speculating about in

It would be like writing a cheque City. We have to be careful about

this. For me to City. We have to be careful about

renationalise it now would be like City. We have to be careful about

writing a bank cheque . We City. We have to be careful about

to be a fiscally responsible City. We have to be careful about

government. That is why I am not City. We have to be careful about

prepared to do that. Ed Balls will City. We have to be careful about

not be talking to you. You are City. We have to be careful about

watching the Sunday Politics. Hello, I'm Julia George and this is

up in 20 minutes, I will Hello, I'm Julia George and this is

the Sunday Politics in the South East. Coming up: As the Liberal

Democrat party meet her annual conference, we'll be speaking to

party leader Nick Clegg about the challenges his party faces here in

the South East. Joining me in the studio to talk about that and other

topics, the Conservative MP and Climate Change Minister Greg Barker

and the Liberal Democrat MP for Eastbourne and Willingdon, Stephen

Lloyd. We're going to start talking about children into care. Last year

1,200 looked—after children arrived in Kent. Many of them were

originally from London. Thanet MP Laura Sandys took the Secretary of

State for Education to see children's homes in her constituency

where children are living close to sex offenders. The Government

promised that there would be no new homes in unsafe areas. And now

Michael Gove also says he will tighten up the rules on vulnerable

children being moved miles away from family and social workers.

Greg, how did we end up sending some of the most vulnerable children in

society to live cheek by jowl with sex offenders? It makes you think we

don't really care about them. I think you're right. I'm amazed this

was ever allowed to happen. This is a fantastic vindication of the

campaign that Laura Sandys has run. She's put her heart and soul into

this. It's a great result and I think the way that Michael Gove has

listened to Laura and is now taking this forward is going to make a real

difference to some of the most vulnerable children in Britain.

Stephen, do you think the practice of sending children miles away from

their families and social workers should end altogether? I wouldn't

end it all together because sadly, there are quite a number of

instances where the children have been moved out of their area because

people in their family or within the area are an unsafe risk to the

children. So it's not black—and—white. What I think it

indicates is that clearly it's an issue that needs properly

addressing. It's something that I think the Department for Education

need to monitor very clearly because it's very haphazard. I'm glad that

the secretary of state is going to get involved with this. Do you

admire the MP? Laura has done a fantastic job and she's been pushing

this in Westminster for quite a while. But it's not black—and—white

because unfortunately, in quite a number of instances, children are

actually most unsafe if they stay within the area where the events

took place. Let's look at what happened over the summer. A quiet

Sussex village of a couple of thousand residents — that was before

Bolcom became the focus for anti—fracking campaigners. The

energy firm Cuadrilla began exploratory drilling for shale gas

on the prime ministers at the whole country must get behind fracking. So

what must we make of the debate? And do high profile campaigns like the

one in Bolcom really help us to make up our minds? —— Balcombe.

In the eye of the storm this summer, a small Sussex village unwittingly

found itself in the centre of the debate about new energy sources.

Some famous faces joined the anti—fracking demonstrations in

Balcombe. Brighton Pavilion Green MP Caroline Lucas was arrested there.

At its height, around 1200 testers descended on a village with a

population of about 2000. So what have campaigners added to the debate

on fracking? Some Balcombe residents think it's the protesters who were

actually muddied the waters. There's been really no debate at all.

There's been a lot of shouting, a lot of highly exaggerated

propaganda. The protests have achieved absolutely nothing. We

don't need outside Renta mobs adding to our problems. I can only hope

that other communities will learn from our experience. If you have

fanatic greens in your midst, sit on them hard. Campaigners here fear

that the test drilling being carried out by Cuadrilla could lead to

actual hydraulic fracturing, or fracking. But the process has been

used for decades in the oil and gas industries in other parts of the

country so why have the protests here in Balcombe been so vocal? I

have a theory that we're on the London to Brighton line and also

near the south coast, where a lot of political activity goes on, so I

think it's near to home for some of the protesters. It's made it more

difficult as a community for us to experience an oil drill for

ourselves, because we've had roads blocked, we've been inundated with

press, there have been people outside the shop with cameras all

the time. A wider repercussion of the Balcombe protest is the cost of

policing, estimated to be around £3.5 million. That's the equivalent

of paying nearly 150 newly qualified PCs for a year. More than 100 people

have been arrested so far. It's a national event, I believe, as this

is about energy security for the country, and I'm sure this won't be

a one off in Bolcom. That's why I've asked the government to look at

this. Balcombe will not be the only drilling site in Sussex will stop

I'm sure Surrey and Kent will have the same. I would say to other

counties, we're not going to be alone on this and you need to be

thinking ahead for the future. With such high—profile demonstrations,

the arguments against fracking have been well publicised. And painlessly

it could contaminate ground water, cause earthquakes and encourage our

reliance on fossil fuels. These fears, according to some academics,

art not justified. It is a small minority of people, mainly the

environmental movement. They are concerned that shale gas might, Pete

with renewable energy —— might come Pete. They are saturating the

environmental risks. Shale gas compared to the rest are

comparatively low risks. In the South East, licenses to explore for

onshore oil and gas have been a student in 24 constituencies. Before

any test running, companies must consult the public as part of any

planning application. This did not happen in Balcombe as the parish

council failed to discuss the plans when they were submitted in 2010. So

have the protests usefully raised public awareness or have the noise

and scales of the campaign drowned out any chance of a sensible

debate? We're joined by Keith Taylor, a green MEP and

anti—fracking campaigner. I didn't see you being arrested alongside

Caroline Lucas. Were you better behaved or not there? I was there

just before Caroline Lucas got arrested. I've been going to

Balcombe for two years, arrested. I've been going to

residents, because it's a sensitive thing happening there. Balcombe is

the front line in fracking. There hasn't any fracking yet. Let's talk

about the summer of protest — what did it achieve other than an

enormous policing Bill? One thing it achieved is a consultation with the

Balkan residents, 82% of whom say they don't want fracking. It's

throughout the South East and throughout the country of the risks

associated with fracking. Basically the 82% people saying, let's learn

from the states that have been made in other countries rather than

simply re—eating them. —— from the mistakes. You heard a resident

saying they don't need outside protesters adding to their problems.

Haven't the protests been a bigger nightmare for the people of Balcombe

than anything Cuadrilla were doing? The implications of fracking going

ahead are far more serious than a demonstration in the summer. I'm

terribly sorry to hear that resident was inconvenienced. The fact is that

fracking companies, if you follow the example of America, are actually

not happy with one well. They want to build hundreds of Wells.

Politicians should be looking at the risks and the implications. We

should all be doing that. We still need an intelligent debate about

fracking. Can you demonstrate that you've examined both sides of the

argument? You seem pretty certain fracking is a disaster. I'm looking

at the experiences in Europe. France has a total ban because the French

people love their countryside, love their agriculture and they don't

want to see it ruined. As you've mentioned it, I would say that I'm

going to Pennsylvania next week to have a two of fracking sites to see

where they have been a commercially exploited and I'll be reporting

back. When we look at what George Osborne has done in giving tax rates

and saying that communities can have compensation payments, he's made his

mind up. He wants it to go ahead. Listen to Mr Cameron — he wanted go

ahead. But within the environmental movement, don't we need shades of

green? Gas is the greenest fossil fuel there is. Until renewables are

more widely available, why reject shale gas? We're saying that the

government should be creating investment frameworks to encourage

proper renewable energy. All the scientists are telling us that a 2%

of fossil fuels need to stay where they are, underground. If we get

fossil fuels out, it's going to be the worst effects of climate change.

The protesters played a blinder, did they? Three months ago if you asked

the average person on the street about fracking they wouldn't have

had a clue. Now everyone knows about it. It would have been better for

you if we didn't have a clue what it was about and you could of got on

with it. No, we need an informed public debate. The gentleman in

Balcombe was right. The protesters dumped a previous cause and arrived

en masse in Balcombe. Fracking is not an ideology but a technology. We

need a measured, sensible assessment of what it can bring to the UK and

how we need to develop it. There has been wild talk among the

environmentalists but there is wild talk about the benefits to us. We've

been told fracking will bring our energy bills down. And economists

said that was baseless. There is no evidence it will bring our bills

down. Well, since 2004 we've been a net importer of gas. We used to have

lots of oil and gas coming out of the North Sea but that is in steady

decline. Rather than import gas, which we're going to be dependent on

an need more of in the medium—term, we... I'm a big fan of renewables

but to pretend you can survive only on renewables for the foreseeable

future is wrong. We need gas and much better that we use our own UK

gas than imported from Russia or further afield. That answers the

issue about energy security but not else. Are you for or against? I'm

agnostic. I take Greg's point around the security of provision but where

I'm amateurs is that we're not America or Canada a small island.

Where Keith is right, unfortunately, is that if you're

talking about hundreds of lower case wells in Sussex

restricted. I'm waiting for the signs. I have a real anxiety about

whether our island is big enough. Do you know where the largest oil

reservoir is? It is a farm in Dorset and Dorset is not Texas. Let me go

back to Keith Taylor for a moment. This is exactly the intelligent

debate we need, isn't it? Not people camping out on the streets but

talking about it intelligently, looking at the issues. Certainly in

the EU, I'm working alongside politicians of all parties trying to

get some consistency of approach to the science and technology of

fracking. My job is to represent people and it's my job to

people in the South East what is going on. Mr Cameron has given us

the green light on this and it needs to be explained to people what that

means. Thank you very much. I'm hoping that people have got

something to think about on fracking now.

The Lib Dems proudly call themselves the party of local government but it

is a name they will have to fight hard to keep because the county

council elections this May, they lost a third of their councillors

and finished behind UKIP in Kent and West Sussex. On the eve of the party

conference, our political editor spoke to make Clegg and began by

asking him about the trickiest you we've been talking about — fracking.

My attitude is that we shouldn't just ignore the whole technology and

say there should never be any fracking. Nor should we be over

romantic about it. It's not going to solve all the energy problems of the

country but it might play a role in what I call a mixed array of

different ways of reducing energy to keep people's bills stable and low

in the long run. For too long, we've over relied on a fuel sources of

energy, usually imported from unsafe and unstable parts of the world. We

need to be very careful about regulation of fracking and you need

to get local support and do it in a way which is environmentally safe.

I'm confident we've put every single belt and braces on the rules to make

sure that it's only done safely. I spoke to David Cameron last night

who made it clear that the government would be going ahead with

fracking if the Lib Dems won't blocking it. He said Ed Davey is

blocking it. I don't know what he's referring to. Agreed collectively in

the coalition that fracking can proceed as long as it's safe and

environmentally sustainable and as long as steps are taken to try and

gain local support. To that extent, I think where there is a difference

of emphasis is that I sometimes it Conservative problems talking about

fracking as a solution to every problem under the sun. It clearly

isn't. It can play a role in the future energy mix this country needs

at it won't be the sole magic wand solution. It doesn't play well with

your supporters in places like Sussex, does it? If you're in a

community where you are dead set against it I totally understand it

provokes strong feelings. I think most people in the country at large

access that we've got to wean ourselves off that overreliance on

polluting, imported oil and gas from places where the prices go wildly up

and down, which affects peoples bills. We need to spread our bets.

Looking to the elections, you haven't done particularly well in

the South East since going into the coalition. You've got two MPs in

Sussex, none in Kent, and you were pushed into fourth place locally

behind UKIP. How do you come back? By explaining patiently that if it

wasn't for the Lib Dems in government and if it wasn't for our

unity and resolve to stay the course and see through these difficult

issues, the economy would not start recovering. I'm proud of the fact we

stepped up to the plate when the country needed it. We're able to say

to people on the doorstep that if it wasn't for the Liberal Democrats

they would be £700 better off because we raised the point at which

you start paying income tax to £10,000. This is a big national

thing but also we felt by putting money back in their pockets. But

you're losing supporters on the ground. In Sussex and Kent you

didn't even stand at the police commissioners collections ——

elections. Well, that is a conservative idea which we were

never enthusiastic about but we accept it was put into the coalition

agreement. I accept that we have taken a hit over the last two or

three years. I accept the act of going into coalition would be

controversial to some and no doubt still is. I accept there are some

people who don't like some of the decision the government has had to

take to clean up the mess we've inherited. I think by 2015, there

will be a grudging respect that we've stuck with it and that if we

hadn't the economy would be much worse and we've also done a lot of

very fair things — better childcare, better education with the pupil

premium, more apprenticeships, fairer taxes and the largest

increase in the state pension. Thank you very much.

By 2015, a begrudging respect for your party. Stephen Lloyd, if that's

the best you will lead a can—do I don't fancy your chances of real

action — do you? I do because it's always difficult in coalition. It's

difficult when you have a massive economic recession. We've taken some

difficult decisions. One of the things we used to say before we got

into government is that the Liberals can't be relied on to take difficult

decisions but that is no longer true. This is a party who have given

up on some of the key election pledges you made. I didn't support

that. You were talking about tuition fees. The key pledges around the

pupil premium, the green agenda, the economy. We've delivered and stuck

to our guns. The discipline the Lib Dems have shown within Parliament

over the last three years has surpassed our colleagues within

government. That doesn't get voters voting for

you. You are haemorrhaging support since you went into coalition. You

are well respected MP and must be like screaming at your leaders. Not

at all. I was complete the sound up to the coalition from the beginning.

One of the things the Lib Dems have done, which people respect on the

doorstep, is that the nation was facing a crisis. We put aside party

politics and went into a coalition to get through one of the trickiest

recessions in 40 years. I'm pretty confident. What happens next? Vince

Cable says you have to remain a radical party. Give us a radical

policy that will make people vote for you at the next election.

Radical for me is getting through one of the toughest recessions in 40

years. That doesn't differentiate you from the man next to you. Well,

one of the interesting things is that I call Greg a liberal

Conservative. But I take the point. Radical to me is getting through a

difficult economy. Are you a liberal app Conservative? I'm doing a good

job of ruining my career without any help from you! What do you think

will happen at the next election? The only thing I know for sure is

that we are going flat out for a Conservative majority. David Cameron

has been very clear about that and that's what we are shooting for. But

together, we have managed to turn around the economy, which was a

catastrophic label legacy. We're going to give you a round—up now of

the other political events you might have missed over the summer in 60

seconds. Two years ago it was all smiles for

the Greens but now the infighting within Brighton council's ruling

party has got so bad they reportedly brought in external pacemakers. Will

they be able to force the Greens to hug and make up? Following a pile—up

on a local bridge, the local MP has called on the Department for

transport to make sure it was a one—off. I've written to the

secretary of state for transport and asked him to undertake a review of

the safety of the crossing. Chatham Grammar School for boys has become

the second grammar school ever Grammar School for boys has become

placed in special measures. It says it will work hard to make

improvements. And Henry Smith has been tossing

insulting words around on Twitter. He used strong language to make

clear his feelings about blood in Putin after the Russian president

described Britain as a small island no one listens to. Smith has

defended his choice of language. I stand by the comments I made on

Twitter when I called the Russian president a toss. Let's

Amir Putin doesn't say anything rude about Crawley. —— Vladimir Putin.

Is there a place for fruity language and politics? I think he is a great

MP and he is in touch with his constituents. Have you ever said

anything you've regretted? I'm sure. I think there is a place but

sometimes when we're dealing with something like Syria, you have to

hold your breath. Thank you for being with us. That's it from us.

hold your breath. Thank you for more than pay is going up. Which

hold your breath. Thank you for deserves a programme all to itself.

In a moment, more from our political Good afternoon. Nick Clegg says

victory for either the Conservatives Good afternoon. Nick Clegg says

or labour at the next election would put at risk the economic recovery

is. Speaking in Glasgow at the Liberal Democrat annual conference,

he said a coalition would allow Liberal Democrat annual conference,

party to balance politics and enable the government to finish the job of

repairing the economy fairly. It is my genuine belief that if we go

repairing the economy fairly. It is coalition and Islands politics,

repairing the economy fairly. It is dominating blood on their own, you

will get a recovery which is neither fair nor sustainable. Labour would

wreck the recovery, and under the fair nor sustainable. Labour would

same commitment to fairness as ours, you would get the wrong kind

Two 19-year-old woman arrested after a stabbing on Thursday have been

released without charge. Police a stabbing on Thursday have been

trying to discover if there is a link between the killing and a fire

four hours later in which four Five people are being questioned in

connection with that blaze. A Syrian government minister has described

the agreement drawn up by America country's chemical weapons as a

The minister claims the deals helps the Syrians out of a crisis and

others war. The US Secretary of State John Kerry is in Israel to

brief the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, on the proposal. China

and France have also welcomed the deal, which says Syria has until

Friday to submit a competence of list of its chemical stockpile.

Britain's Mo Farah has missed out on winning his first half marathon

Britain's Mo Farah has missed out on He was taking part in the Great

North Run between Newcastle and South Shields. Farrar, who was the

favourite following his two gold Ethiopian's can mean many Serb

favourite following his two gold Kenenisa Bekele in a sprint finish.

A carnival atmosphere for the start was about the challenge. For others,

walking it, so I have no time in simply dressing up for fun. I am

walking it, so I have no time in mind. I just want to enjoy it and

appreciate the crowds and have a fantastic time. For elite athletes,

today's race was about who would be first over the line. Despite the

wind and rain, large crowds turned out for the world's most popular

half marathon, which attracts some of the finest women runners, two,

including the Kenyan. There were high hopes for Britain's double

Olympic champion Mo Farah, but after Shields, he was narrowly beaten

Ethiopian's Kenenisa Bekele. It Shields, he was narrowly beaten

thought I would come back and close the gap slowly. I managed to close

it a little bit, but you can't take away what he has. Wheelchair athlete

David Weir won his race for a fourth time. More than £200 million has

been raised since the Great North That is it for now. There will be

more news on BBC One at 6:35pm. So, did anything happen while we

were away this summer? I thought heading now? Who better to answer

than the best political panel we could cobble together for a tenner?

Putting foreign affairs to one side for a moment, it seems that what

happened mystically was that it became more apparent that some sort

of recovery was underway at last, and that Mr Miliband still has not

yet resonated with the British public. These things are a problem

for Labour. Ed Miliband's mistake over the summer holiday was to take

a summer holiday. And it looked over the summer holiday was to take

the rest of the Labour Party had taken one too. They were not finding

issues they could make their own. The only person who made an impact

was Stella Creasy on online abuse. That is a huge problem, and it is

partly down to the fact that there is this intense message discipline.

They don't want to say anything is this intense message discipline.

of line until they have got all their ducks in a row. It makes the

party do at the moment. The terms of party do at the moment. The terms of

trade have swung in David Cameron's favour, but the political rhetoric

look at this headline from the is still with Mr Miliband. Let's

look at this headline from the Sunday Telegraph. That headline

might not be right, but the story is significant in that Mr Cameron is

still in danger on his right flank significant in that Mr Cameron is

doesn't need an enormous share of the vote to get an overall majority?

Westminster group think. Of course Ed Miliband is in trouble. The

Tories are reserved and. They are better organised, the economy is

recovering. That poses difficulties for Labour, but if you look at what

is happening on the ground, UKIP still pose a danger to Cameron.

is happening on the ground, UKIP don't need to poll 15% in a lot

is happening on the ground, UKIP those marginal seats, they just

is happening on the ground, UKIP to get five or 6% of the vote, and

that could potentially destroy the Tory lead. Lots of commentators

that could potentially destroy the to say, this guy will never be prime

minister, but it is possible that by default or by accident, in a very

Miliband could end up as prime minister. It is still all to play

for on both sides. If UKIP remains a threat to the Tory right flank and

the Tories themselves are not really a national party any more, I am

the Tories themselves are not really they will only target a few seats in

Scotland, they don't get any big seats in the big cities of the north

any more, they don't get the Ulster vote they used to get, so it is

possible that Labour, which is more nationally based and has seats in

the Midlands and the north and in Wales, so they could get in. I

agree. The advantage of having a bad summer is that Ed Miliband can go to

expectations. All he has to do is not dribble on the lectern, and

expectations. All he has to do is will be written up as spectacular.

expectations. All he has to do is He might not even use a lectin.

position. The electoral vagaries of the system work in his favour. He

still has a narrow poll lead, he is not out of the game at all. Of the

three main party leaders, the only one who can be confident about being

three main party leaders, the only in government after 2015 is Nick

electorally. But if it is this bad for Labour at the moment, what will

it be like if this recovery turns out to be real? It depends how much

they succeed. Chuka Umunna was shifting the debate are living

standards. They don't want to keep arguing about who called it right.

Do people feel richer than they arguing about who called it right.

in 2010? The data suggests that people don't feel richer than in

2010. Because they are not.That people don't feel richer than in

the basis on which Labour will fight the next election. It is clear that

Labour are unclear on what to say or do next. They have just got to hope

and pray that the economy is not as soundly based as it appears to be

and that George Osborne is Tony Barber, who thought he fixed the

just before the next crash. There are all sorts of uncertainties

just before the next crash. There China, the bond market, the housing

bubble might be blown up, and Labour just had to hope something goes

wrong for Osborne. Chuka Umunna just had to hope something goes

he would not get rid of help to just had to hope something goes

There are all these criticisms about just had to hope something goes

artificial schemes pumping up house prices, but he would not say that.

It is tortuous. You see this again and again. When asked if Labour

would repeal the bedroom tax, or the same thing with Royal Mail, it

happens again. They will be falling on people who have not had a meal in

coming out of the Labour Party. There is a kind and Gillette in

coming out of the Labour Party. them to a politician's career. When

they are under attack for a long time, the media get bored after

they are under attack for a long while and switch the story. It

happened to Osborne, who had a horrific 2012 and has recovered

bad press as he is getting at the moment, because people find it

tedious. Syria has been the big foreign-policy event this summer. It

has remarkably led to a Soviet- American initiative to get Syria to

give up its chemical weapons. The world will now expect the Assad

regime to live up to its public commitments. As I said at the outset

anything less than full compliance. John Kerry. Is this too good to

anything less than full compliance. true? Even superficially, it is

anything less than full compliance. very good. The only people who

emerge with any sense of triumph are the Russians, who have had their

emerge with any sense of triumph are biggest diplomatic coup. They are

back on the stage again. B if you want to know why Putin even has

back on the stage again. B if you because of moments like this. They

were humiliated after the end of the Cold War, and a Nou Camp is a great

power again. Then you have the Obama situation, because he has ended

power again. Then you have the Obama where he wanted to end up. He has

power again. Then you have the Obama concession from Syria, but the way

he got there was so embarrassing. It concession from Syria, but the way

made him look weak and erratic as a leader. There were contradictions

between himself and his Secretary of State last week, and it has not

between himself and his Secretary of him any good. I was in the States,

and it was open season on him. I have never understood the idea of

chemical weapons as a red line when you can massacre people in their

thousands through other means. But chemical weapons are beyond the

pale. The rebels are miserable. chemical weapons are beyond the

have run out of time. I will have to ask you what you think about Syria

next week, which gives you time ask you what you think about Syria

prepare. Your book on Fred the shred is going well? It is.I am back

tomorrow at noon with the Daily Politics at noon on BBC Two, where

we will have more from the Liberal Democrat conference in Glasgow.

we will have more from the Liberal is the start of our Daily Politics

conference coverage. Next week, is the start of our Daily Politics

will be back here at our normal is the start of our Daily Politics

of 11am, when we will be joined is the start of our Daily Politics

Grant Shapps. Remember, if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.