22/09/2013 Sunday Politics South East

Morning, folks. Welcome to Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband and

Morning, folks. Welcome to rest of the Labour clan are

Morning, folks. Welcome to Brighton for their

Morning, folks. Welcome to this weekend. He's promised policies

galore. But as a Sunday Politics poll finds a third of

galore. But as a Sunday Politics councillors don't think he's doing a

galore. But as a Sunday Politics good job, will that be enough to

steady the Labour ship? Back in Westminster, they're

partying like it's 2006, Back in Westminster, they're

McBride's memoirs re-ignite Back in Westminster, they're

Blair-Brown wars. Back in Westminster, they're

will tell us why he is Back in Westminster, they're

the former Brown spin doctor. Back in Westminster, they're

And speaking of Back in Westminster, they're

infighting, Conservative Party Back in Westminster, they're

Chairman Grant Shapps will Back in Westminster, they're

response to the rampant Tory-bashing at the Lib Dem Conference

And in the South East: Whose me, as

And in the South East: Whose fault is it that a quarter of children's

centres in Kent will close? We hear from the MP who says it's time

over the two thirds of the ethnic minority vote but now stands

over the two thirds of the ethnic of institutional racism. Are they

right? With me, the best and the brightest political panel in the

business. Isabel Hardman, Janan be tweeting like demented Damians

throughout the programme. First today, scrapping the bedroom tax.

Universal childcare for primary school kids. More apprenticeships.

Labour Conference only begins in earnest today, but the policy and

spending commitments are coming according to the Labour leader's

critics. He's been out and about this morning and told Andrew Marr

that he knew it was going to be this morning and told Andrew Marr

It is about a party that lost office three years ago. We are trying to be

a one term opposition. That is tough. I believe it is a fight that

we can win and I am up for that fight. The stakes are so high for

young people who want a job, for people whose living standards are

being squeezed. For people who think that this is not good enough for

Britain. So what do key Labour Party activists - its councillors - think

about the direction Mr Miliband activists - its councillors - think

taking their party? Adam Fleming is in Brighton at the Party Conference

with all the details of our latest exclusive Sunday Politics survey.

conference set. Let us unwrap them. With the help of an opinion poll we

surveyed 1350 Labour councillors across England and Wales. We wanted

to find out what they think as Labour gathers for its conference.

The Labour leader warmed up for Labour gathers for its conference.

week by taking to his soap box in Brighton city centre. It is great

week by taking to his soap box in councillors said they did not think

Ed Miliband was doing a good job as leader. 30% said they thought the

party would have a better chance if someone else was in charge at the

next election. You will see more of Ed Miliband as we run-up to general

election. He has been in the job for three years! Now it is crunch time.

The other Ed, Ed Balls, was disliked by roughly one third of the party as

well. Ed Balls is not a pop your man. He says things and he speaks

his mind. -- not a popular man. diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not

seem to be that bothered about our survey. Over at a conference centre

When it comes to relations with trade unions, the majority of Labour

councillors thought things were absolutely fine. Just 9% thought

things with the unions were a little bit too close. Tricky because Ed

Miliband want to loosen the link. The shadow environment secretary

arrived in Brighton ride bicycle from London to raise money for

councillors what they would do if the next election results in a hung

parliament, just over half said the next election results in a hung

would tell the lid Dems to get on their bikes. We would never say

would tell the lid Dems to get on to going into coalition. It gives us

the chance to be in government and prepare some of the damage of the

last three years. So are you going to start being nice about the Lib

Dems? I always treat them with courtesy. And the parties admitted

that perhaps they had opened the door to too many immigrants. It

that perhaps they had opened the our survey Labour councillors of

warming the felt that immigration We're now joined by the Shadow Chief

Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves. Good morning. Let us start

with Ed Miliband. Is it true that the team insisted that he be called

the leader? I just call him Ed and I think the rest of the Shadow Cabinet

do. Do you welcome working for a leader that says he is winning back

socialism? We are a democratic important thing is that we have

socialism? We are a democratic policies that will improve people 's

lives and tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many families.

Policies like expanding childcare, offering more apprenticeships, all

policies that I think the country are calling out for after three

years of a flat-lining economy and seeing prices rise faster than wages

for 38 out of the 39 months but Minister. I think that is the most

important thing. So it is OK now to risk their to the Labour Party again

as the Socialist party? The clue is in the name, we stand up for working

people. You are socialist party according to the leader. We have

always been the Labour Party, that is our name and we stand up for

working people, not the privileged few like this government with their

tax cuts for millionaires. Those are privileged few. The Labour Party is

about helping everyone in Britain, all families. Interesting that your

run don't use the word socialist. In our survey one third of Labour

councillors said Ed Miliband was not doing a good job as leader. If he

councillors, who can he convince? Well you could say that two thirds

of councillors think that he is Well you could say that two thirds

right leader. But these are Labour councillors. The overall majority of

Labour councillors think that he is doing a good job. What matters is

the results on election day. Two thirds of councillors think that he

is doing a good job. That us see what they say at the end of this

week. Because I think the policies he is announcing will go down well

week. Because I think the policies with Labour Party people and will

also resonate with the British public. Policies like expanding

apprenticeships, giving a break public. Policies like expanding

struggling. I think people will public. Policies like expanding

what kind of a leader that he is. Well he has a mountain to climb

among all voters. Let me ask the question. Just 12% see him as a

Prime Minister in waiting, just question. Just 12% see him as a

see him as a natural leader. Why? If question. Just 12% see him as a

you look at the overall opinion polls, we are consistently ahead in

those polls. It is hard being leader demonstrate how you would be Prime

Minister. By nature you are in opposition. But he has taken on

Rupert Murdoch and the press barons. That is strong leadership, standing

up to the vast majority. If you That is strong leadership, standing

at his reforms to our relationship with the trade unions, strengthening

ties with individual members. I think that he is a strong leader

making the right decisions. If that is the case, why has the Labour

making the right decisions. If that gone from 14 points one year ago to

at most four points now. What went wrong? Well we are six or eight

are six or eight points ahead in the consistently ahead. It looks as

are six or eight points ahead in the we would get an overall majority if

there was an election tomorrow. we would get an overall majority if

we have more work to do to convince more people to vote for Labour.

we have more work to do to convince this is a historic challenge, to be

a one term Labour opposition. I this is a historic challenge, to be

a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the

next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The

big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary

school children. How much will that government, they ring fenced money

after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring

fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools

within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they

can charge for children to come to provide that. At the moment they

their first clubs. But this is a additional money. As it was under

the last Labour government it will be about ring fencing money because

we think that this is a priority. This is something that the schools

should do. You cannot ring fenced money you do not have. You saying

schoolchild from eight o'clock in the morning until six o'clock at

night and it will not cost any more money? Well we did ring fence that

money in the last Labour government. That money is gone! It has not gone.

It is about priorities and we are saying that it should be a priority

where is the money being spent now that you would take it from? If

where is the money being spent now look at some of the things that

where is the money being spent now government is doing, building free

schools in areas where there are already enough. That is capital

spending. We are ring fencing that priorities. We had the ring fence

when we were in government. It would be reintroduced so that schools

when we were in government. It would to offer that wraparound care. Of

course schools can charge a small to offer that wraparound care. Of

fee for their breakfast clubs and after-school DVDs. But the important

thing is that provision is there for parents going out to work. Ed Balls

and Ed Miliband are at the heart of the Brown project. Damien Wright was

the hit man. Is it not inconceivable that they did not know what he was

the hit man. Is it not inconceivable up to. It is inconceivable that

the hit man. Is it not inconceivable did not -- Damian McBride. I am

asking about Damian McBride. What did not -- Damian McBride. I am

asking about Damian McBride. What I'm saying is that I was not there.

I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know

that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband.

that backstabbing going on. There is no plotting against Ed Balls going

on? I do not see that. And anyone who briefed against colleagues

should be sacked, I agree with that. Nick Clegg's conference speech made

it clear he was repaired to work with Ed Miliband in the event of a

hung parliament. Are you excited by that prospect or is it just boring?

That is very generous of Nick Clegg to say that. With his poll ratings

of 9%. I think it is up to the general public to decide who they

want to form a government. We are campaigning for an overall Labour

that just boring boring? I want campaigning for an overall Labour

serve in a Labour government is campaigning for an overall Labour

a coalition government. That is campaigning for an overall Labour

we are campaigning for. Thank you for joining us. Steve Richards,

we are campaigning for. Thank you has Ed Miliband got to do this

week? He has got to start to win the argument about the economy. I think

they will be quite clever on that in terms of saying that the recovery

has begun but it is not going to benefit many of the voters. Unlike

previous economic recoveries. That is a strong line and they need to

make that again and again. The recovery has barely started. The

make that again and again. The interesting thing, Isabel, they

make that again and again. The to make a living standards the issue

let's return to living standards which have been squeezed. The polls

show that twice as many people blame Labour for the living standards

show that twice as many people blame the Conservatives. It is a great

scene for them to mine, and it is the only one before they announce

big policies, but they have not gained the trust of voters on the

economy, so the Conservatives can say they are finishing the job of

fixing the recovery now and then cannot quite trust us with the

economy but we will talk about living standards. Ed Miliband's

economy but we will talk about elucidating policies and not just

incredibly vulnerable. The only thing worse than not having a policy

for an opposition leader is to have a policy. It gives the opposition

something to attack, the media something to scrutinise and it makes

you bold rubble and you can see something to scrutinise and it makes

coming through already before the conference has started. You have

childcare. Spigot can he provide wraparound childcare for free?

childcare. Spigot can he provide can he provide wraparound childcare

for free? I don't even know what it is. Opposition is emphatically an

art form, and the art form, and artform for them at the moment is to

announce policies without spending any money and it is very difficult

to do. You gave an illustration any money and it is very difficult

how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to

announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately

say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend

a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything.

a penny on it, because they are is where it an artform. The tax

suspension before and election is crazy, because they will find money

one way or another, but in another way, they cannot say we will spend

money on this. It is a real problem. How do you measure the state of

money on this. It is a real problem. coalition after the Liberal Democrat

conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after

their conference, Nick Clegg had faced and activists on some issues,

including fracking, which they supported, which seem to be the

including fracking, which they important part of the conference. In

terms of the coalition, the Tories have had to sit and watch as Vince

Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have basically criticised them and said

they are evil and only the Lib Dems can make sure the Government is

they are evil and only the Lib Dems and works properly. So in terms

they are evil and only the Lib Dems how the coalition works, you can

expect to see some revenge at the Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick

Clegg's followers, they had their revenge. Mister Clegg may have

convinced his own activists to stay behind him, but he has a bigger

convincing the British people. There is some interesting polling they

have done privately that suggests there is a market of about 25% of

the electorate which is plausibly open to them, and all they have

the electorate which is plausibly do is target policies remorselessly

at that group, rather than the broader public, in order to do well

enough at the next election to hold the balance of power. That is why

policies that seem weird to us, the balance of power. That is why

free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to

them. Because it appeals to their political world we are in, the

Labour strategists think they can political world we are in, the

Labour strategists think they can win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going

to concentrate on 25. The Tories win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going

to concentrate on 25. The Tories have seized to be a national party

any more. We haven't been used to it for a long time. In the 80s, one

party dominated, the Tories. In for a long time. In the 80s, one

90s into the 21st century, the policy matter delayed the Labour

Party dominated. -- the Labour party dominated. We are now here but we

have other parties hoping that dominated. We are now here but we

will give them a small overall majority and it is the best they can

get. It is a very odd situation where the main two parties feel

get. It is a very odd situation can lose and the Lib Dems are openly

targeting only 25%. They have gotten rid of 75% already and it is a long

way from the policies of last couple of decades Nick Clegg talked about

all of the policies he had locked. There is a real opportunity for

all of the policies he had locked. Conservatives to say that he is

blocking all of the things that voters outside of our bays are

interested in, top immigration policy, human rights reform, that

sort of thing. David Cameron can say that in Manchester next week. One

thing was quite clear, it came out of this awayday, and and this is

this, that when you look at Mister Miller band's polls, the Tories

this, that when you look at Mister going to make this a presidential

Which is why I am curious why they When the strength of your party

Which is why I am curious why they against his opponents, why not have

him or her juxtaposed against them in 90 minutes three times a week.

past week has given us inklings When the Lib Dems gathered for their

Government is planning on fighting When the Lib Dems gathered for their

annual shindig in Glasgow, some ministers were non-too complimentary

about their blue blood fellows. ministers were non-too complimentary

bedfellows. Vince Cable led the ministers were non-too complimentary

Tories had reverted to type as a nasty party and describe their

politics as ugly, cynical, callous and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not

restrict himself to policies that and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not

the Lib Dems had champion, such and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not

increasing the amount you can earn before paying tax. The Deputy Prime

Minister proudly listed all of the things he had stopped the Tories

from doing. Speak of scrapping housing benefit the young people,

no. No to ditching the human rights act. No to weakening the protections

in the equalities act. So how much of a break have the yellow brigade

being on Conservative ambitions question mark in the two leaders

shake hands again after the 20 question mark in the two leaders

election, what policies were David Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No

matter how many times Nick Clegg And Grant Shapps joins me the Sunday

Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick self-styled. He boasted to his

conference that he had stopped the Tories from going ahead with 16

policies in government. Is this accurate? I don't know but what

policies in government. Is this can tell you, as your commentator

Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a

majority government sent out to that we wanted them if we were a

very popular things, like reforming the human rights act and some of the

problems that provides when it comes to sending people who have no right

to be in this country back. So there to be in this country back. So there

may be some things we could have inheritance tax cut? I don't know

the details, but I think it is negotiation and sometimes you can't

get everything you want, and we negotiation and sometimes you can't

done the best, given where the electoral maths left us. That is why

70 people in this country say they electoral maths left us. That is why

70 people in this country say they would rather see a single party

running the country -- why so many people. I have to say I agree. They

Give me a couple of major policies that you would introduce if you

Give me a couple of major policies had a majority in 2010 and were

Give me a couple of major policies held back by the Lib Dems. Speaking

the one I just mentioned would be Country, we have had 1,000 years of

than capable of putting in place developing the law and we are more

than capable of putting in place sensible laws. you would have left

the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process

of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would

like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country

has a great future but we can only ourselves the best place in the

world to come and set up a business. ourselves the best place in the

If we make ourselves the best place entrepreneurship and I think there

are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape.

And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what

ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It

has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election

will come, we know it is in May talks about when the next election

but that is in part being in a coalition. The Tories wouldn't have

done that? It wasn't the plan of any party to go from... In the old days,

there would have been speculation. debate, you changed the British

constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated

on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there

was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me

that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here

it is, every five years. This is what it has done, it has provided

stability in an incredibly uncertain economic time and that has been

stability in an incredibly uncertain for the economy. we will chalk that

up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about taking people out of tax, the Lib

Dems did that question mark it is a great policy. It is a conservative

led government, it is a Conservative This is a screen grab from your

party's website, income tax cut This is a screen grab from your

25 million people. You are taking the credit for it, it wouldn't have

happened without the Lib Dems. It certainly came about because of

happened without the Lib Dems. It coalition and we put it in the

coalition agreement. It could not have happened without a Conservative

Chancellor making it happen. It have happened without a Conservative

right, 25 million people taken out of tax. Another 17 by this April

will not be paying tax at all. you didn't want to do it. Look at what

David Cameron told Nick Clegg during What Nick Clegg is promising is

David Cameron told Nick Clegg during £17 billion tax cut. We are saying,

stop the waste of 6 billion to stop the national insurance rise. I would

love to take everyone out of their first £10,000 of income tax, it

love to take everyone out of their beautiful idea but we cannot afford

unaffordable and now you are taking the credit for it. I feel like it is

having a three year afterwards argument, and we got into coalition

because the British people put us there and we agreed to make the

because the British people put us of it. And as it happens, if you

absolutely think it is the right thing to take as many people out of

tax entirely as possible. Two points 7 million people pay no tax at all

threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm pleased it worked out. What are

threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm most important thing is a majority

Tory government would do after most important thing is a majority

unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I think produce even more jobs when

unemployment goes down, because think produce even more jobs when

are the most entrepreneurial place to set up a business. Are more

free-market economy? We make our money because we are out global

trading economy. That is why it money because we are out global

so important that we have to make sure it is easy to trade around

so important that we have to make world. One simple example, it is

crazy in my view that we have global tariffs that prevent some of the

hardest other countries in the tariffs that prevent some of the

hardest other countries in the world, in developing parts of the

world, from exporting to us and world, in developing parts of the

versa. I'm giving you a platform of things that I think we would be

versa. I'm giving you a platform of interested in progressing in. It

sounds like you are talking about even more Thatcherite, market led

agendas. I think that you did a even more Thatcherite, market led

amount to show this country that if you want to help the least well

amount to show this country that if people in society, and the least

well off people in the world, around the globe, the way to do it is to

trade, and I think we should have an economy which is much more open

trade, and I think we should have an free trade. If there is another

trade, and I think we should have an parliament, and the poll suggest

there might be, at the moment it is all to play for on both sides, what

would your non-negotiable Red Line speak? We are still two years away

from that, it is a long way away, but there is a lot we want to lay

out. What we are going to be saying to this country is most people want

a single party running the country, they think it is clean and clear and

you don't end up with negotiation setting out a very clear platform

which will be for hard-working people in this country who want

which will be for hard-working work hard and get on in life. We

would, I think, want to see the welfare state that we have got into,

where it is no longer about helping those most in need but became a

not working than in worker, I think we plan to ensure that this is an

incredibly fair place to go out and do a day's work and get the money at

the end of the day rather than thinking there is an alternative.

the end of the day rather than you have promised a referendum on UK

membership of the EU you have promised a referendum on UK

must be your first Red you have promised a referendum on UK

clear, we want to see a referendum, a reform European Union. So no

poll... ? I should remind viewers a reform European Union. So no

that there is an a reform European Union. So no

a bill going through a reform European Union. So no

right now, for a referendum on the a reform European Union. So no

EU, which comes back to the a reform European Union. So no

It is past the report stage and comes back in November and we will

be discussing it. The comes back in November and we will

Labour, will have an opportunity to comes back in November and we will

support what the British people want. Lots may have changed.

support what the British people would be a Red Line for any future

support what the British people coalition government question mark

support what the British people we are clear that it is time to have

a say. You will know from our manifesto. What is wrong with yes or

a say. You will know from our no? I cannot write the manifesto for

2015. You are asking me to project no? I cannot write the manifesto for

beyond that and see in advance the election result and carry

beyond that and see in advance the negotiations that are yet to come.

beyond that and see in advance the I'm just trying to work out how

beyond that and see in advance the much... I know you are committed but

beyond that and see in advance the she won't tell me. Let's move on.

Your party has been described she won't tell me. Let's move on.

nasty and blinkered. What do you she won't tell me. Let's move on.

feel when he says that? she won't tell me. Let's move on.

interested in helping the most vulnerable people in society.

interested in helping the most think we're doing all that and more.

interested in helping the most And it is a shame that that

interested in helping the most was used because we have made so

interested in helping the most much progress together. Are you

interested in helping the most getting to the end of your

interested in helping the most with Mr King? I do not think it is

terribly helpful for any Cabinet with Mr King? I do not think it is

minister to make comments like that. with Mr King? I do not think it is

What I would say is that Nick Clegg with Mr King? I do not think it is

is the leader of the Lib Dems and with Mr King? I do not think it is

entitled to have a view on it himself. Look at these figures on

party membership. Why has your party lost half of its members

party membership. Why has your party Cameron became leader? I would like

party membership. Why has your party it to be more. But I think the

party membership. Why has your party has changed. People do not rush out

and join political parties has changed. People do not rush out

used to. Instead they support has changed. People do not rush out

different ways. If I has changed. People do not rush out

number of people who give to has changed. People do not rush out

party in different ways, through donations for example, through

friend memberships. If you include donations for example, through

that that figure goes back up. donations for example, through

your membership has fallen by 50% at a time when UKIP has doubled. I do

not want to to misinterpret what a time when UKIP has doubled. I do

want to say. It is important to a time when UKIP has doubled. I do

members. I think we will have done that by the time of the next

election. But one statistic of interest, in the last election I had

a 17,000 majority in my own constituency. The difference was

a 17,000 majority in my own had 1000 people helping me to

deliver leaflets and knock on the doors. The Conservative party has

changed. We now have an army of people, volunteers who

changed. We now have an army of necessarily traditional members. The

changed. We now have an army of days when you expect people to give

changed. We now have an army of you £25, before you accept their

changed. We now have an army of support, those days have passed. You

spoke about your most vulnerable marginal seats. This is

spoke about your most vulnerable Michael Ashcroft. The

spoke about your most vulnerable marginal seats that you will be

defending. Labour is way up, you are marginal seats that you will be

way down and UKIP is also up. What is happening, the Lib Dem Mo --

way down and UKIP is also up. What are moving to Labour. And

disillusioned are moving to Labour. And

moving to UKIP. If these figures are moving to Labour. And

came at an election he would lose 32 of these 40 seats. The point about

any opinion poll is that of these 40 seats. The point about

perhaps accurate at the moment it is taken. We are now in a position

perhaps accurate at the moment it is where the economy has turned the

corner. The right thing to do was where the economy has turned the

deal with the deficit. The people being asked about these things,

deal with the deficit. The people will be interested in

deal with the deficit. The people standard of living. Their mortgage

payments. Why are you doing standard of living. Their mortgage

the marginal seats? National standard of living. Their mortgage

you are kind of nip and tuck with Labour. Well if that is the

you are kind of nip and tuck with come 2015, people will see that

you are kind of nip and tuck with government has stuck to its guns.

you are kind of nip and tuck with did not go for more borrowing and

spending. And the record did not go for more borrowing and

demonstrates that the last thing you did not go for more borrowing and

want to do is give the car did not go for more borrowing and

to the people who crashed it in the first place. Lynton Crosby at this

away day of Conservative MPs, his one message was to go all out and

away day of Conservative MPs, his attack Ed Miliband. It is

away day of Conservative MPs, his be a nasty election.

away day of Conservative MPs, his actually not true. We are going to

focus on his policies, if he actually not true. We are going to

announces some. Everything we have seen so far suggests it would mean

more borrowing and spending. The seen so far suggests it would mean

shadow chancellor said we would be ruthless, just a few months later,

shadow chancellor said we would be 27.9 pounds of extra spending

shadow chancellor said we would be committed by Labour. These are your

figures. I will speak to you about that during the Tory conference.

It's just after 11:30. You're that during the Tory conference.

watching the Sunday Politics. that during the Tory conference.

up in just over 20 minutes. that during the Tory conference.

Campbell gives that during the Tory conference.

not-too-positive review Good morning. I'm Julia George.

McBride's memoirs. Until then, Good morning. I'm Julia George.

Coming up later, as the Labour Party met for their annual conference, we

will speak to party leader, Ed Miliband. Is scrapping the bedroom

tax a vote winner? Johnny today are the Green leader of the Brighton

Council, Jason Kitcat and labour's prospective parliamentary contender

Sarah Owen. Let us talk about those policies, free school meals from the

Lib Dems and Labour promises to scrap the bedroom tax. The party

conference season is bringing out some interesting promises. What

about the smaller parties? We saw the Greens last weekend, this week

it is a tonne of UKIP. Jason, you must be jealous, as in other smaller

party, are you not jealous as to what they have achieved? Most

European countries have had this far right party for some time, this is

just a natural evolution of the breakdown of the big party machine

politics. They are definitely far right and they are protest vote.

They are not serious about taking power. How many MPs have we lost?

Let us consider other things. UKIP has split

Let us consider other things. UKIP What does that mean for Ed Miliband?

Since the elections of 2010, we have increased our share of the vote. We

have seen a 42% share of the vote from Labour and Hastings and Rye. We

have no measure as to how people will vote nationally. There are

lot of disaffected Tory Party members going to UKIP. It is a lot

of the same voters that would have voted for the Green Party.

It is an issue that has had voices big and small united across Kent, to

try and stop the closure of 23 out of 97 of the county's children

centres. Parents and under—fives were joined by two Tory MPs who see

these vital facilities must be saved. After three years of cuts,

the council must still make huge savings up to £240 million. Can we

expect all of our services to remain untouched? Bhavani Vadde looks at

the argument. Moving and shaking. This is drop—in

session aloes toddlers to let off some steam. It is taking place in

Folkestone at the local village centre. Less than one mile away as

the Folkestone early year centre that offers similar activities. Kent

County Council says it just longer afford to run both of them because

it must save millions of pounds over the next few years. That is ten

times the number of people using the centre have borrowed books from the

local library and the council says when resources are taped it must

prioritise. These are tough decisions that must be made. I did

not come into politics to close children centres, but we have cut as

much fat from the bone as we can and we must look at the quality and

availability of services for those who desperately need them. Sure

Start centres like this were set up in the late 90s by the Labour Party

to provide support for parents. The council says the grand for every

years intervention has been cut by one third over the last four years.

Kent County Council points out it has already cut £340 million from

budgets and this week councillors meant —— met to discuss further

millions of pounds worth of cuts over the next three years. It is

front line services like this that are bearing the brunt. Many parents

are upset but others understand the need for changes. I would not want

any services to be cut ideally, but as long as they can insurance that

—— we can ensure us that they will receive the same level of support,

then perhaps it may work. Some of these children's centres must be

used more than others. You do not need to keep things that are not

being used. This one is being used, however, and it is popular. The

consultation over the changes ends next week. It has taken one year to

examine how children's centres are used. 16 new centres will open near

families that need greater support. The number of health visitors will

be doubled to carry out more visit at home. Despite these insurances,

there have been high—profile campaigns over the closures. Some

Kent MPs are fighting against cuts to services on their patch at voting

for austerity measures and Parliament. MPs will always seek to

defend their constituents and against council led cuts. They make

themselves popular in their constituencies and they know what

the outcome will be, the cuts will stop go ahead anyway. It is nothing

more than posturing. Some in the local govern and believes this does

not help. I would make a plea to parliamentarians and MPs to look at

the register funding situation that local authorities are facing. Please

listen to us because we cannot protect services at their current

level unless we get more funding. Kent is not the only authority that

has had to make tough decisions. In East Sussex other children's

services were merged. We do not have the luxury of affording the

services. We must constantly on the most needy people and those who can

benefit most from that. Of course, there is criticism, because at the

end of the day people have come to expect everything to be done for

them. We have a political choice to be met the —— to make based on the

services that we have available to provide. If we do not do this we

will have to do something else. As local governments across the South

East struggle to balance the books, the tough funding decisions they

have to face and not proving popular. What real alternatives do

they have? Gordon Henderson as a Kent MP that

is fighting to save Woodgrove to an's centre. I asked him about his

concerns. # Woodgrove Children's Centre. We are trying to get early

intervention for parents. The parents it is reaching and getting a

good service and the 600 children and that school will lose out, what

we must do is reach beyond those two other people. Ifo that every closed

Woodgrove and we are not reaching at the moment, will never reach them.

Why do you think this centre in particular need saving because Kent

County Council says two thirds of the people using the Woodgrove use

other children's centres as well. Some of these are close by. Don't

forget the people that he must reach and that use the centres often do

not have their own transport and we must ask ourselves, why are they

going to other centres? They are going to them because they offer

services that Woodgrove doesn't. We must increase the services at

Woodgrove. What services are invaluable at Woodgrove? They have a

community chef going into that centre to show parents how they can

provide nutritious meals at a cheaper cost to their children.

does not have to happen at Woodgrove, and it does happen

elsewhere because that chef goes to other places. The point I'm making

is that Kent County Council have recognised and given a commitment

that they will not cut any centres in areas of high deprivation such as

the ones I have mentioned. Woodgrove, out of the centres in my

area, it is one of those and one of the most deprived areas. Would you

be happy if another centre closed instead? What is the best scenario?

You want that one to stay open, but that means another one may have to

close. Do you care about all of the children in Kent or just the ones in

your constituency? I am the Member of Parliament for its city born and

Sheppey. I care about all the children in Kent but I must

concentrate my efforts on my own constituents. It is not posturing, I

can about my constituents. Why not take the fight to the government?

Kent County Council has already met hundreds of millions of pounds of

cuts and they are talking about making even more. Have you as David

Cameron white he has broken his pre—election promise and looking

after Sure Start children's centres? You could be taken as arguments to

central government instead of Kent County Council. I'm tend to write to

David Cameron to remind him about that promise. We had questions in

Parliament last week with the opposition asking the same

question. The response we got from government was that no Sure Start

centres are closing, what they are doing our amalgamating or

rationalising the Administration. You believe that the government is

not coming clean on this? Some parts of the government do not understand

what is actually happening on the ground. I will be making it clear

that the centres are closing and that if we are going to be honest we

must explain why they are closing and that is because of financial

reasons. We must look at Kent as a whole and there must be areas more

affluent than my own constituency where children centres are

continuing. Is your fight with Kent County Council or the government? I

would say the government. Jason Kitcat, you have kept all of

your children's centres open so far, will they always stay open under the

Green Party? I would hope so, but it is unforeseeable because of this

level of austerity and cuts. Councils will be cut until 2020 and

this current government and the Labour Party. Gordon Henderson has

finally realised the problem is with the central government. Did you find

that a revelation? Privately many of us feel that this is an

unsustainable situation. 28% of cuts are being taken out of Whitehall.

Century have been in control of Brighton and Hove city, you cannot

blame all the problems and asperity. Parking charges, problems

with the bin men. You cannot always blame austerity and the government.

The first time running a principal authority, mistakes will be made.

But I think we have kept three quarters of our manifesto promises

halfway through our term which shows that we are committed to our

election commitments. Has it been more difficult than you expected to

be in power? It is a learning process. There is a long history of

central government passing on the pain to local government. We sought

the local MP trying to do that and blaming the council, the beastie was

honest to confess and say that we have a government who

centralising and cutting again and again. Pro testing at council level

will only take you so far because the fundamental system is broken.

Sarah Owen, we talked about East Sussex and children's centres. What

is your understanding as to what is happening? They are looking to cut

£1 million from children's centres. I do not agree with what Kent are

doing with the number of cuts, at least they have been upfront about

what we are cutting. We heard from the MPV, but he did not say how they

were going to do this. They should have been upfront about what they

were doing and double break and have kept their children's centres open

they are no longer universally available to everyone. Essentially

every level of government is about deciding where the axe will fall.

That is what governing is about. Clearly efficiencies are there to be

had. We must deliver services as good if not better than before for

less money, but that can only go so far. Sadly that is part of what is

happening in government and that is why I am worried that until 2020 all

the parties in Westminster will continue down this line. The Labour

Party met in Brighton and they will be thinking hard about the 7th of

May 2015. It is polling day for the next general election. The Labour

Party lost all seven of their seats and this area. Louise Stewart asked

whether the Labour Party know what voters want to Ed Miliband. We are

talking to the people in Brighton at our conference about the things that

matter. We are talking about issues like energy prices, the bed and tax,

real fears, how we can raise wages, fundamental issues for people in the

South East. I hope that when people see our conference they will notice

we are talking about the issues they care about. On the issue of the

spare room subsidy that you call the bedroom tax, you said if you were on

power you would repeal that, how can you afford to do this pledge? People

will say it is the same old Labour Party, spending money you do not

have. We are closing the particular tax loopholes and a hedge fund that

this government introduced. George Osborne's tax relief force and share

transactions within the construction industry, that is a costed set of

commitments to end the bedroom tax. Why are we ending it? It is unfair

and hacking so many disabled people and tens of thousands of families

across the South East. It is not working because families go behind

on their rent and face election which is not good for the taxpayer.

We are determined to tackle the cost of living crisis and this is just

the first episode of what you will see at our conference. Some in the

South East would say that the bedroom tax affects relatively few

people in the South East, other concerns are things like the rise in

real fears, people struggling to afford to get to work and the South

East is the engine of the economy. Absolutely, we will talk about those

issues at our conference. Life is getting worse for ordinary families.

The Labour Party will be addressing those concerns and talking about

real fears and energy prices. Fair taxes and all of those issues that I

think are the bread and butter issues for those people. We want to

see poverty is addressing those issues and I hope that

look at our conference and the CBR looking at their issues. People in

the South East who are struggling to pay for their homes, people who

cannot afford their homes, will see why should we be paying more to help

people on benefits to pay for a spare room when they

people on benefits to pay for a for our own accommodation. Two

thirds of those affected by the bedroom tax are disabled. The whole

idea of the bedroom tax was that people could move to other

properties, but there are not properties available. It is not

going to work, it is unfair and it is affecting the disabled. There

people to not think it is a good idea. We must build more housing,

including across the South East, that will be central to what we are

plotting about at our conference. Unless we tackle the housing crisis

we will not tackle the cost living crisis facing several

families. The Labour Party has not been able to do it in the South

East, you do not have one single MP. Labour will tackle the cost of

living crisis facing you, we are on your side and will create an economy

that works for you. We will tackle companies who overcharge you and

have fever taxes. We have learnt lessons from the past and is

formally on your side. Thank you, Ed Miliband.

Sarah, we should vote Labour to repeal the bedroom tax. The bedroom

tax is not a vote winner. The bedroom tax has been wholly

unpopular with Andrew and I have spoken to. We all know someone who

has lost out as a result of it or believe it is genuinely unfair to

penalised disabled people. They need that space. When you stand on the

doorstep of Hastings and right and you say you will repeal the bedroom

tax, will you get a vote for that? And every house and knocked on that

issue did come up. It is a huge issue but it is about the cost of

living. Are you going to announce a living wage? We have done a lot of

work on that. We have 15 councillors signed up to that. You think Ed

Miliband has a vote winning isn't? It issues were positive. It is not a

case of candy when in the South East, we have one in the South East

and we have a lot of momentum. We have more Labour councillors than we

have ever had before and he things and dry. There has not been a

general election is —— general election since 2010, you must

remember. We are working on campaigns for the Royal Mile and

across the NHS. We are appealing to people across the. Let us look at

the targets. The three Brighton and Hove constituencies are all in

there. Jason, how do you keep eyeful told and the city? Labour has said

that the conditions but I do not think people will forgive and forget

as quickly as Ed Miliband would like. I believe Caroline Lucas has a

great chance of holding her seat. Even with your reputation as a key

or the grader? You are punishing the poorest. I do not agree. This is

simply a tiny move from the problems inherited by the Labour Party. You

will not compete against each other at the next election, but Sarah, you

have described yourself as growing up as a socialist. Jason, you see

the Green Party as the new socialist. I think Jason is more of

a mangle! You have been described as that. I do not identify with that.

There are no socialist sitting here. Here is a ruined up of this week's

political events. West Sussex council's attempts to

evict and the fracking protesters were flawed according to a High

Court judge. The council will respect the ruling. Protesters are

delighted. They better wake up because rural communities throughout

Sussex and Kent will not stand for this policy. Sussex MP Tim Winton

was criticised for saying that Sarah Teather the not produce a family and

so did not understand. He said has comments were not

personal. The these historic dockyard will become a World

Heritage site by 2013. It will be put to public and the

vision week. Something has been causing a stick and Tonbridge.

This factory produced a sickly smell to waft across the town. It is a

very pungent chemical and sweet smell. Although —— it is like a

sweet factory has exploded. The council says the smells are not

harmful. What a great description! Let us go

back to fracking. The UKIP party are climate change deniers. They are

very much against conservative and environmental issues. What about

what Sarah Teather and Tim Leighton? That has no place in

modern politics. That level of misogyny and sexism is not on. Enjoy

the party conference, we look forward to hearing what that pledge

from Ed Miliband will be. Join us next week. My thanks to our guests.

Natalie will be here next week. Goodbye.

my youth. The halcyon days of the 2000s, when the warring Blairite and

Brownite tribes fought over who should run the Labour Party. Gordon

Brown's chief spin doctor Damian should run the Labour Party. Gordon

Brown's chief spin doctor Damian McBride - McPoison, or worse, to his

enemies - has published his memoirs, timed for maximum impact in the

enemies - has published his memoirs, of Labour's Conference. They detail

how Mr McBride briefed against colleagues, brought down Cabinet

Ministers, that is - and fought tooth and nail to promote the man he

called "the greatest man he ever met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us

called "the greatest man he ever is Tony Blair's former Director

called "the greatest man he ever Communications, Alastair Campbell.

You are angry about what he has Communications, Alastair Campbell.

in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it

in a way that will be -- will be damaging to the Labour Party at

in a way that will be -- will be time. But also because of the lies

that he told at the time that he now communications and trying to hold

the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and

others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been.

I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage

where I said if Whelan does not about it. And there came a stage

I will go. And when Damian McBride was on the scene I was clear that I

was not going to have anything to do with him. Because of what he is

was not going to have anything to do admitting to, I think they played

quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the

public were being fed by them, this public were being fed by them, this

narrative, the whole time. That Blair was useless, Charles Clarke

was useless. And I think that we where the government and had very

good ministers trying to do big things for the country. I said this

morning it was like being a foot tall team were on the pitch you

morning it was like being a foot your own players kicking the star

players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped

usher in a conservative government. If we had all stuck together I think

did not win the last election, that is a reasonable point. But surely

undermine Tony Blair and to promote their man, Gordon Brown. It is

inconceivable then that Gordon Brown did not know about it. Well in spite

reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge

him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will

sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward

by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence.

People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single

journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper,

who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against

ministers. That was my golden rule. People say you were the forerunner.

I know it was not the case. One People say you were the forerunner.

the reasons why I do despise what they did, the whole spin thing which

associated with, once I wrote a actually within the government,

associated with, once I wrote a had a principle of maximum openness

and trust. Anyone could come to had a principle of maximum openness

morning meetings on condition that what was discussed their state as

part of the team. I had to say to Gordon Brown, your people are not

coming. Because I knew where it Gordon Brown, your people are not

coming from. Did you know that the time but Charles Clarke and others

were effectively being destroyed from within the Labour government? I

certainly knew that they thought that. I did know journalists telling

me that that was what was happening. Ultimately, this is why I never

me that that was what was happening. leaders, it is ultimately up to

me that that was what was happening. litre. Possibly in a different age

Gordon Brown would have been an amazing Prime Minister. He was a

great chancellor. But he had a flaw, this need for truly horrible

people to be around him doing truly horrible things in politics and

giving him and the Labour Party horrible things in politics and

politics a bad name. That is why I'm still angry about Damian McBride.

What do you make of it? The current administration is a contrast. We

have rival factions occupying the same offices but they still get

have rival factions occupying the The only time they have a row is

when something really big happens. But with that one party in Downing

Street there was fighting the whole time. Did Ed Balls know about this.

I would assume so. I spoke with time. Did Ed Balls know about this.

about it at the time. He told me at the time that he had spoken about it

with Gordon Brown. So I think there was a concern from within that camp

about some of these activities at equivalence, in life you expect

about some of these activities at see that there is full on both

sides. But I do not buy it in this see that there is full on both

case. If you look at the testimonies see that there is full on both

over the years, what you can surmise about the character of Gordon Brown

and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately driven by Gordon Brown and the

people around him. The Blairites did things but they did then by way

people around him. The Blairites did retaliation rather than initiation.

The one-time when I did lose it retaliation rather than initiation.

the whole psychological force thing. That came at the end of a period

when we were relentlessly being That came at the end of a period

in by Charlie Whelan and his gang of journalists. I would go along to

colleagues would be there and I journalists. I would go along to

had to sit there and not hit back. Saying I cannot believe Gordon Brown

would have anything to do with this. You get to the stage where your

would have anything to do with this. credibility is on the line. Coming

promotion of alcohol awareness. credibility is on the line. Coming

before that the Labour Party, you never had to deal with this in

opposition because you were pretty far ahead in the polls by midterm.

This time that is not the case. far ahead in the polls by midterm.

is surprisingly narrow. What advice would you give to Ed Miliband? To

keep his head out side of this bubble but it's all about him. And

to use this week to really speak to the British people about himself,

particularly the kind of policy agenda he is shaping for the future.

And start to heart -- start to hit the Tories hard. They're not pop,

they're not competent. They're screwing up the health service.

they're not competent. They're yet they are neck and neck. I would

say that the whole Shadow Cabinet understand that you win elections by

wanting to win elections every minute of every day. There is too

much complacency. A small lead now you have to grow that. You do that

with energy and conviction and policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole

bead in the run-up to 1997. We were winning seat where we had not even

campaigned and he was saying, why celebrate because we have not won

yet. You are promoting your alcohol celebrate because we have not won

yet. You are promoting your alcohol awareness campaign. Perhaps the

party conference is not the best place to do that! That is one reason

why I am doing that. I'm hosting probably the only alcohol free

reception of the week! There is nothing worse than a convert, I

reception of the week! There is that. But I travel a lot. I travel

around the world and Britain has a something we should be ashamed of.

Why is that, is it cultural? I think it is historical. But I dig David

Cameron was right to go for minimum unit pricing and wrong to do a

reversal. 6% of alcoholics get treatment. I expect that drugs are a

problem but we spent £2 billion treatment. I expect that drugs are a

100,000 problem drug takers and treatment. I expect that drugs are a

million on 1.6 million problem have written this book about a young

million on 1.6 million problem alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in

the first person. People could think you are writing about yourself.

did you choose a teenage girl? Well did you choose a teenage girl? Well

partly, I dedicated this to the Southampton. He told me when he

started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women

and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One

doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and

the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and

emergency. I watched the foot all, advertisements for gambling and

advertising. How have we allowed this to happen, ? We are just awash

with it. What we did I think on Availability and price either too

means by which you can bring this down. And the country that has had

the biggest success on this is Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very

much for that. That's all for today. Thanks to all our guests. I'll be

with live coverage of Labour Party Conference, including the speech

from the man who wants to be the next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember