Browse content similar to 08/06/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools. | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign. | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission? | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
But could the arch europhile yet get the top job? | :01:05. | :01:14. | |
Here's to the quarter of a million votes. | :01:15. | :01:16. | |
And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
And in the South East. success may have cost UKIP two MEPs. | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
It's been a bruising week for Kent's Police and Crime Commissioner | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
Ann Barnes, we'll ask what the latest | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man? | :01:31. | :01:42. | |
And with me our panel of top political journalists, | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
This morning's political news is dominated | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling | :02:04. | :02:05. | |
The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots. | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp. | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted, | :02:33. | :02:34. | |
"why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry. | :02:45. | :02:51. | |
Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning, | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say. | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government, | :03:05. | :03:07. | |
which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way. | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
There will be discipline in the Government. | :03:11. | :03:12. | |
The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools. | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning. | :03:25. | :03:42. | |
Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she | :03:43. | :03:53. | |
has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website | :04:13. | :04:23. | |
and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a | :04:32. | :04:38. | |
vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell. | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out. | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the | :05:10. | :05:16. | |
politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the | :05:56. | :06:04. | |
Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is | :06:05. | :06:13. | |
fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The | :06:19. | :06:25. | |
view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
government introduced to do with the previous Labour government | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in | :06:56. | :06:57. | |
the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2011 | :07:24. | :07:24. | |
Munich Security conference in 2 11 when the Prime Minister talked about | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system | :07:30. | :07:45. | |
is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe. | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt. | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of | :07:55. | :08:03. | |
their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham. | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the | :08:53. | :09:02. | |
leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted | :09:26. | :09:32. | |
curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender | :09:42. | :09:49. | |
segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
Where you have a state education system, which is about gender | :09:56. | :09:57. | |
equality between boys and girls, and equality between boys and girls and | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
there is an unofficial policy of gender segregation, that is | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
unacceptable. We should not be tarring communities with the same | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
brush in terms of radicalisation. We do want to see a successful, | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
multicultural education. Two years ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as | :10:17. | :10:23. | |
outstanding. Now it looks like tomorrow it is going into special | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
measures. What is it up to? I do think there is an issue for Ofsted | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
that you can go from outstanding to inadequate so quickly. That is why | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
we are asking for a new criteria to be introduced to look at a broad and | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
balanced curriculum. We have healthy sex and relationship education. | :10:44. | :10:50. | |
There is a real issue this morning as the BBC has been reporting on the | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
night for the Department of Education. We are hearing that some | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
of those involved in the schools were not allowed to open a free | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
school on security grounds. They were allowed to allow one of the | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
schools to be taken over as an academy. We have a lack of oversight | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
and accountability in schools within Birmingham. What the Labour Party | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
wants is a local director of school standards to make sure we challenge | :11:14. | :11:21. | |
underperformance and make sure we get in confronting Islamic extremism | :11:22. | :11:29. | |
when it was in power? I was speaking to Hazel blears and she was very | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
clear about the prevent programme which they rolled out when in | :11:35. | :11:42. | |
office. A very atomised and fragmented school system where every | :11:43. | :11:50. | |
school is looked at from behind a desk in Whitehall and he put that | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
together and you do have an increased risk of chances of | :11:56. | :12:04. | |
radicalisation. You have attacked Mr Gove for gross negligence. Was it | :12:05. | :12:11. | |
the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for gross negligence. We are dealing | :12:12. | :12:20. | |
with a government which has been in since 2010. The Government needs to | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
hold the executive to account. We note the Department Michael Gove was | :12:26. | :12:34. | |
warned by a senior and respected head teacher about fears over | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
radicalism. What did he know and what did he act upon? We are hearing | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
more reports of conversations about fears, about radicalisation, taking | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
over some of the governing bodies of schools. We need to know what | :12:48. | :12:55. | |
ministers did. Let me continue. You mention the capital to prevent | :12:56. | :12:57. | |
strategy. Was it gross negligence for Labour to regularly consult a | :12:58. | :13:07. | |
man who once headed a group dedicated to making Britain an | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
Islamic state and wrote a book about schools full of Taliban style | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
decrees. I think the events in Birmingham are enormously | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
significant. About the nature of multiculturalism, the nature of | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
education, the role of civic education, the role of faith | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
schools. I will say to you this morning that Birmingham City | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party, the Department for Education were | :13:37. | :13:45. | |
all involved in this conversation. In 2010, ministers were warned about | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
potential radicalisation of schools and they fell to act. We need to | :13:50. | :13:56. | |
know why, for years on, they allowed this situation to exacerbate. When | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
you look at the record of labour and this government 's record, there are | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
plenty of examples where both of you fail to act. Would it not be better | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
to drop the party politics and get together to confront this problem | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
for the sake of the children? There are a number of reports going on in | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
Birmingham. Some are led by the city council, some by the Department for | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
Education. Labour MPs this morning have come forward with the Bishop of | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
Birmingham talking about faith in schools. If you have a minister | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
failing to do their job, if you have a minister being given warnings in | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
2010 and failing to act on them for four years, the opposition has a | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
role to hold the executive to account. This is about the safety | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
and standards of teaching for pupils in Birmingham schools. It is about a | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
great education for these young people so they can succeed in a | :14:51. | :14:57. | |
modern, multicultural Britain. Do you agree with your Shadow Cabinet | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
colleague, Rachel Reeves, that Labour' as core voters are | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
abandoning the party? She was building on what Ed said the day | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
after the elections in Berwick. We have to make sure those communities | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
who we historically represent regard Labour as having a successful | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
message for them. I am passionate about making sure we have great | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
vocational and technical education, the great academic education in our | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
schools. If we have more work to do to get people to the polling | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
booths, we must do that. We must with listen to what she says. | :15:39. | :15:48. | |
David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping the former PM of Luxembourg | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
- named by one newspaper as 'the most dangerous man in Europe' | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
because of his federalist views - from becoming the next president | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
Mr Cameron has reportedly described Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from | :15:58. | :16:04. | |
the 80s who cannot solve the problems of the next five years . | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
But with the German Chancellor Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr | :16:08. | :16:10. | |
Juncker, it's not a dead cert that Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. | :16:11. | :16:13. | |
This is what he had to say at the G7 summit earlier this week: | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
It is important that we have people running the institutions of Europe | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
who understand the need for change and reform. I would argue that view | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
is widely shared amongst other heads of government and heads of state in | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
the European Union. I am clear what I want to achieve for Britain's | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
future, to secure Britain's placed in a reformed European Union and I | :16:40. | :16:42. | |
have a strategy for delivering that, a strategy for dealing with an | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
issue which I think if we walk away from it would see Britain drift | :16:47. | :16:48. | |
towards the exits. We've been joined from Berlin | :16:49. | :16:50. | |
by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is a senior figure in the EPP - that's | :16:51. | :16:53. | |
the party backing Mr Juncker. He's also Chairman of the Union | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
of European Federalists. And in our Newcastle newsroom is | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
the former Conservative MEP Martin Callanan who until last month led | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
the European Conservatives and Reformists group in Brussels. | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
Welcome to you both. The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, | :17:09. | :17:23. | |
they don't want Mr Junker, the new Italian Prime Minister doesn't look | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
keen either, should he bow out gracefully? First of all, he wants | :17:27. | :17:33. | |
to have Mr Junker but he wants to have his conditions. Will he become | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
president of the European Council, a high representative? It is a | :17:39. | :17:45. | |
discussion to be had in the next three or four weeks until the | :17:46. | :17:53. | |
European Parliament can elect the president of the European Council | :17:54. | :17:55. | |
after the proposal of the European Council, which has to be done after | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
consultation with the Parliament in the light of the European elections | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
and by a majority vote. If not Mr Junker, then who? There are many | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
available candidates, I am not going to mention them in front of someone | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us one name that you would prefer? The | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
prime Minister of Sweden, Christine Lagarde, the minister from | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
Lithuania, these are people who have a record of old reform. Junker is | :18:30. | :18:38. | |
the ultimate Europe insider. We need radical inform. We need to respond | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
to the message the electorate gave us in the elections -- radical | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
reform. Junker said he had to lie in public, he allowed the security | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
services to conduct a dirty tricks campaign against his opponent. This | :18:54. | :18:56. | |
is not who we want leading the European Commission. Elmar Brok, | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo? | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks | :19:14. | :19:24. | |
against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government. But | :19:54. | :19:55. | |
European Union, less government But we need Europe more and he is not a | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
man from the 80s. He is a man of this century and in this century he | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
made his own policy. He is the winner of the European elections, he | :20:06. | :20:07. | |
has a majority will stop Mrs LANguard is not running because she | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
knows she will not get the majority in the European Parliament. -- | :20:13. | :20:20. | |
Christine Lagarde is not running. It is the Council of minister is that | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
decides. No, the European Parliament has the final word. The European | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
Council can make a proposal by majority in the light of the | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
European elections after consultation with the European | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
Parliament. The council cannot get a candidate against the will of the | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
European Parliament. Mr Junker has a majority in the European Parliament. | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
Theoretically he is right, the Parliament has do vote on the | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
candidates proposed by the council. I want to challenge the view that | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
somehow he won the European elections. There is no provision for | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
Jean Claude Junker to stand in the elections. He is saying that the EEP | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
party got the most number of seats in the Parliament but none of the | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
electorate knew they were taking part in this election. How many | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
people who voted Labour in the United Kingdom realised that their | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
vote would count towards a German socialist to be a candidate for the | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
commission of presidency is a nonsensical proposal. The elections | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
were 28 individual elections with hundreds of parties across Europe. | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
To try to claim there is a democratic mandate for somebody | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
nobody has heard from Luxembourg to take over the commission is a | :21:33. | :21:43. | |
nonsense. People should know him, if I should say that ironically. | :21:44. | :21:53. | |
Newspapers talking about members of the family of his wife with Nazi | :21:54. | :22:00. | |
links... What is the answer to Martin Callinan's point? I think it | :22:01. | :22:06. | |
is clear that British Conservatives have no candidate because they are | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
not a broad European family, they have not impacted on the selection | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
of top candidates but it is a form of isolation of the British Tory | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr Junker is appointed it could lead to | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
Britain drifting towards the EU exit, is that credible? Is it | :22:26. | :22:31. | |
melodramatic? It is true that we want to renegotiate the | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
relationship. We want some serious reform in Europe so the people who | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
vote in a referendum will be able to vote to stay in if that is what they | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
want. We need a bold reformer, somebody prepared to engage. That is | :22:44. | :22:51. | |
not anti the interests of the UK. We need to recognise there is a problem | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
with public perception of the European Union. Elmar Brok is proud | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
to be one of the last bastions of federalism that that is not where | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
most of the public opinion is in Europe. I understand why he wants | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
his man installed but we need to take into account the message of the | :23:05. | :23:12. | |
letter -- the electorate. 25% of the publishing of France were prepared | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
to vote for an openly racist party. We can't just ignore the signal that | :23:17. | :23:25. | |
the electorate were sending us. If enthusiasm for federalism was at an | :23:26. | :23:27. | |
all-time low, it would be a slap in the face for the voters of Europe to | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
have a federalist as the president, would it not? 70, 80% of the members | :23:32. | :23:38. | |
of the European Parliament, selected by their people, are pro-Europeans. | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
These are the winners of the European elections. Even in France, | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
a majority of voters have voted pro-European and that should be | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
clear, not to make this a populist thing which is not only to do with | :23:52. | :23:59. | |
Europe. And we want to have a Europe which is strong, the member states | :24:00. | :24:08. | |
should do their things. We do not want to have a European centralism, | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
we do not want a European state. This is not at stake. Let's talk | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
about the question of better governance, let's talk about what | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
was wrong in the past, we have to become better, to change our | :24:23. | :24:25. | |
programme in that question. That should be the way we lead to come to | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
positive results. Thank you for that. Before we go, there is a | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
British commissioner that needs to be appointed to Brussels, do you | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
like the sound of that? These are matters for the Prime Minister, I am | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
sure he has many excellent candidates. Do you like the sound of | :24:46. | :24:52. | |
it? Like previous British commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil | :24:53. | :25:00. | |
clinic, I have just lost an election -- Neil Kinnock for the everybody | :25:01. | :25:01. | |
who is asked would serve, I'm sure. Just days ago UKIP were celebrating | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
topping the poll in the European They're claiming they'd have had two | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
more MEPs and the Greens two fewer had another | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
party not confused the electorate. What's more UKIP say it's | :25:17. | :25:19. | |
the fault of the body which was set up to oversee | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
elections - the Electoral Commission This is a party celebrating success | :25:23. | :25:36. | |
at the European elections. They didn't win a single MEP but | :25:37. | :25:43. | |
nationally polled 250,000 votes. They are an independence from | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
Europe, mostly people who were once in UKIP, and that is rather the | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
point. They may look like capers, drink like capers, sound like capers | :25:52. | :26:08. | |
-- -- sound like kippers, but they are not. The name and the logo were | :26:09. | :26:16. | |
displayed on this banner when the party launched its campaign. UKIP | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
suggest the look, the wording and the inclusion of UK in now confused | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
voters, and are looking at rewriting such a wrong. The way that seats are | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
allocated in a European election under a proportional representation | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
system is using this formula. It was invented by a Belgian mathematician | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
in 1878 and it is essentially this. When all of the votes have been | :26:42. | :26:48. | |
tallied up, the one with the most seats gets the first MEPC in a | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
region. The others are allocated using votes cast divided by the | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
number of seats gained plus one -- first MEP seat in a region. UKIP | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
were concerned with South West and London. There they say, when the | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
last MEP seats were being allocated, if everyone who had voted for an | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
independence from Europe had meant to vote for UKIP and you tallied | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
their votes up, and added them to UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
each region and the greens would have lost them. Whether you can | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
prove that voters did that by mistake is a very different matter. | :27:30. | :27:36. | |
UKIP may have to just chalk it up to experience. It has happened before, | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
back in the European elections of 1994. Then in England under the | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
first past the post system. This man, Richard Huggett, decided to | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
stand as a little Democrat and polled a significant number of | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
votes. The Liberal Democrat candidate at the time is now an MP. | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
Many people voted and afterwards realised that they had bubbly voted | :28:01. | :28:07. | |
for -- probably voted for a little Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
they had been intending to do -- bubbly voted for a literal Democrat | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
-- probably voted. Mr Sanders got some consolation In | :28:16. | :28:30. | |
1998, laws came into rule on so-called spoiler tactics and the | :28:31. | :28:32. | |
Electoral Commission was established. The Electoral | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
Commission are based on the seventh floor of this building and they did | :28:36. | :28:38. | |
look into this issue prior to voting. They have given us a | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
statement that reveals the conclusion they came to, part of | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
which says, we decided that the name of the party, and its description | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
are sufficiently different to those registered by the UK Independence | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
Party, UKIP, to mean, in our opinion, that voters were not likely | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
to be confused if they appeared on the same ballot paper. Pretty | :29:01. | :29:07. | |
conclusive stuff. Back at the pub, were an independence from Europe | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
just being crafty, or do UKIP need to wake up and smell the flowers? We | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
attack them in all areas. An independent study for Anglo | :29:18. | :29:19. | |
Netherlands because I was involved in the Dutch -- with the Dutch | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
member of Parliament and the description was UK Independence now, | :29:25. | :29:30. | |
nobody has a monopoly on the word independence. I have been fighting | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
for independence since I started in 1994, before I joined UKIP. The | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
party tell me they will stand again at the general election next year. | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
The ironies not lost on them or the major parties of UKIP complaining | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
that a smaller party has been taking votes of them. | :29:51. | :29:59. | |
Joining me now to discuss this story is Gawain Towler. | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
He's the UKIP candidate for the South West region, who failed to get | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
And in our Bristol studios is the victorious Green MEP for | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
How many of the 23,000 votes that were cast for the Independence party | :30:11. | :30:24. | |
were meant for you? Impossible to tell. I want to congratulate Molly | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
for getting elected. They are the breaks. I do not think there is a | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
purpose in complaining about boats that are cast. Do you think you | :30:35. | :30:47. | |
would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. You have to look at the | :30:48. | :30:49. | |
would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. You have to look boats for parties | :30:50. | :30:51. | |
people have not heard of and those with a long tradition that people | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
have heard of. I do not think there is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
ballot papers, the amount of people who had voted at the top and the | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
bottom, most people are not anoraks, they say, they are the people I | :31:10. | :31:15. | |
want. They know what they are after. I think it is at least told. It is | :31:16. | :31:30. | |
said you owe your seat to And Independence Party. It is strange | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
for a man to say he could represent people in the south-west better than | :31:38. | :31:44. | |
me. There has been outpouring of delight that a Green MP has finally | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
been elected. A number of people have been saying they have been | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
voting all their lives and it is the first time they have elected | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
anybody. I am glad to represent them in a significant legislature. What | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
would you say to that? I find it strange. I am perfectly happy for | :32:05. | :32:12. | |
her to be elected. I feel the electoral commission has questions | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
to answer. But, congratulations to Molly. Why do you want an extra seat | :32:18. | :32:23. | |
for the Greens in the European Parliament but your national share | :32:24. | :32:30. | |
of the vote actually fell. We did come under pressure nationally. If | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
he is complaining about the role the election commission said we could | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
stand, the rule we were not happy with was the off, ruling which said | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
we were not a main party. We got significantly less media time and | :32:44. | :32:50. | |
that is why our belt actually fell. Not on the Daily Politics or the | :32:51. | :32:53. | |
Sunday Politics, where you were well represented. Was it a problem for | :32:54. | :33:04. | |
UKIP in other parts of the country? Only in London. What do you think | :33:05. | :33:19. | |
happened there? Very much the same. I do not think there is any doubt, | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
the number of people we have had getting in touch saying, I am really | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
sorry, I made a mess, that they voted for the wrong party. They are | :33:28. | :33:32. | |
the breaks. Politics is politics. What I would like to see and what is | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
reasonable, and I hope Molly would agree, there needs to be a reform - | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
a serious reform of the Electoral Commission. There is no appeal | :33:44. | :33:50. | |
process. They say it is not confusing. Lets see if she thinks | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
that. I make it a policy never to agree with UKIP. What is important | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
to note, if you look at the votes and the way the votes fell out and | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
the seats fell out in the south-west, it is difficult for an | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
Electoral Commission to turn boats into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote | :34:09. | :34:15. | |
and 33% of the seats. For them, the system worked very well in the | :34:16. | :34:22. | |
south-west. Nationally, Greens did not get represented as the vote | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
share would require. That is because you get very small number of seats | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
in the different regions and you have to reach a high threshold. The | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
Green Party has a right to complain about the level of seats we have | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
ended up with. White rapper you have complaints about the Electoral | :34:40. | :34:46. | |
Commission? We need to move to a proportional system for elections | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
generally. If we poll around 7% 8%, we should be looking at having 30, | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
40 seats in the national legislature. We need to consider | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
proportional representation for national elections. Do you accept | :35:00. | :35:03. | |
the ballot paper may have confused some people? I think what happened | :35:04. | :35:08. | |
is that some people in UKIP were very worried. Worried about the | :35:09. | :35:15. | |
rightward move of UKIP and the authoritarian leadership of Nigel | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
Farage. He set up a separate party. That is what happens in politics, | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
particularly when parties are led by demagogues and are not focused on | :35:25. | :35:35. | |
Democratic policy. Do you have any legal redress to this? None | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
whatsoever. Have you had legal advice? I am told there is no | :35:41. | :35:49. | |
redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly does not agree with UKIP on anything | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
so, if we say the sun rises in the morning, she probably will disagree | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
with that. If, at the next election, there is a party called the Grown | :36:00. | :36:07. | |
Party, will she then complain? There needs to be some level of | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
accountability and, without that, one wonders what is going on. We | :36:12. | :36:18. | |
have an organisation with enormous and important power and influence | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
which is setup to stop this of thing going on. It has failed. Not has it | :36:22. | :36:29. | |
has failed. Not present served in Tower Hamlets and there have been | :36:30. | :36:32. | |
massive problems with postal votes. It is failing on almost everything | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
it is supposed to do. Just to go back for a final point from Molly. | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
Should there be a right of appeal to the rulings of the Electoral | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
Commission? You need to have an authoritative body that makes | :36:49. | :36:50. | |
decisions in this area and we have the Electoral Commission. It is | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
about being sore losers on the part of UKIP. I am delighted to represent | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
people in the South West. Should there be a right of appeal or not? | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
You need an authoritative body and the Electoral Commission is that. I | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
do not think it should have a right to appeal. | :37:11. | :37:12. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be discussing extremism | :37:18. | :37:30. | |
I'm Natalie Graham and this is the Sunday Politics in the South East. | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
In just a few months, drivers using the Dartford river crossing will | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
benefit from a new free`flow system, but is it just a short`term | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
My guests this week are Labour's parliamentary candidate for | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
South Thanet Will Scobie and the Conservative MP | :37:48. | :37:50. | |
Now, we were off air last wdek, so this is the first chance we've | :37:51. | :37:58. | |
had to mull over the results of the European Elections. | :37:59. | :38:00. | |
The headline for the South East was, of course, that UKIP saw a rise | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
They gained two seats, bringing their total to thrde. | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
The Conservatives lost one MEP which means they now have three | :38:10. | :38:12. | |
and the Liberal Democrats lost one MEP, so Catherine Bearder is now | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
the only Lib Dem representative in Europe in the country. | :38:17. | :38:18. | |
I'm going to ask the same question to both gtests. | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
UKIP had over a 13% rise in their share of the vote, how are your | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
We have to put it in context first of all. Labour does not do well in | :38:29. | :38:43. | |
European elections, it has been 20 years since we have won one. There | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
were some very good results for Labour in the local election, we did | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
very well in Crawley and Hastings. Even in Thanet, the Labour vote went | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
up. There is a lot of discontent with voters at the moment, that is | :38:57. | :38:58. | |
why you could have done so well. We why you could have done so well We | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
need to do more to reconnect with voters, `` why UKIP have done so | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
well. Are they doing enough? Senior members of your party have told Ed | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
Miliband they are not doing enough to pull over additional voters who | :39:12. | :39:13. | |
to pull over additional votdrs who are being pulled over to UKIP? | :39:14. | :39:15. | |
to pull over additional voters who are being pulled over to UKHP? That | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
sounds you're area. If you talk to people on the doorstep, people say | :39:21. | :39:26. | |
they will vote UKIP in the European elections unencumbered to L`bour. We | :39:27. | :39:29. | |
have got to reconnect with those people. We have got exciting | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
policies coming forward, particularly a big issue in Thanet, | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
to do with private sector renting. The policies in the last few weeks | :39:38. | :39:39. | |
will be helpful in those issues We will be helpful in those issues We | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
have had a freeze in Alnwick sheet rices, zero hours contract `` energy | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
prices, action on zero our contracts. Not everyone things you | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
are getting it right, anothdr are getting it right, anothdr | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
Parliamentary candidate in Kent was exposed by the Sunday Times saying | :39:59. | :40:00. | |
Ed Miliband hasn't got what it takes to win. Everyone has got different | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
views but we are all trying to reconnect with voters. If we had it | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
right now, we would not see UKIP doing so well. You are doing badly | :40:10. | :40:15. | |
with UKIP, Nigel Farage will be standing in your area, you will be | :40:16. | :40:18. | |
at the forefront of the fight against the party. I am just | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
focusing what I can do with the area, I am a local candidatd, I have | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
lived there my entire life, I am trying my best to stand up and | :40:28. | :40:28. | |
improve it. Whoever UKIP brhng trying my best to stand up `nd | :40:29. | :40:31. | |
improve it. Whoever UKIP brhng in are going to be a candidate being | :40:32. | :40:33. | |
parachuted in, they are onlx are going to be a candidate being | :40:34. | :40:34. | |
parachuted in, they are only going parachuted in, they are only going | :40:35. | :40:36. | |
to be there because it is their best chance of being elected as an MP. | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
The voters can choose someone who has come into the area to use it as | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
a platform for other things or an MP who is going to be there, | :40:45. | :40:46. | |
campaigning to improve the `rea campaigning to improve the area, | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
which is what I'm going to be doing. UKIP are a big threat to yotr | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
which is what I'm going to be doing. UKIP are a big threat to your party, | :40:54. | :40:53. | |
UKIP are a big threat to yotr party, if not more, than it is for Labour. | :40:54. | :40:55. | |
A number of messages have come from A number of messages have come from | :40:56. | :41:00. | |
people supporting UKIP, they A number of messages have come from | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
people supporting UKIP, thex are unhappy on issues such as | :41:04. | :41:04. | |
immigration, they want to sde a immigration, they want to sde a | :41:05. | :41:08. | |
control on people coming into the country. We want to see our | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
relationship with the European country. We want to see our | :41:12. | :41:11. | |
relationship with the Europdan Union relationship with the Europdan Union | :41:12. | :41:13. | |
redefined, which is why we need to get across that the only way you | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
would get a proper referendtm on the European Union is to vote in a | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
Conservative government. Labour are saying they will not have a | :41:21. | :41:23. | |
referendum if they win. UKIP are not going to be able to win the next | :41:24. | :41:31. | |
general election. So we need to get across these messages that `re | :41:32. | :41:32. | |
general election. So we need to get across these messages that are quite | :41:33. | :41:33. | |
across these messages that `re quite clear, that lay some of the fears | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
that people have showed. How do you do that, what needs to happdn in | :41:38. | :41:39. | |
that people have showed. How do you do that, what needs to happen in the | :41:40. | :41:39. | |
do that, what needs to happdn in the next year? What a David Cameron has | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
to say to allay those fears? The worst thing we can do is try to | :41:45. | :41:46. | |
worst thing we can do is trx to out`UKIP UKIP. If Europe is a big | :41:47. | :41:52. | |
decision for you, the only way you will get a decision on whether to be | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
in the European Union is to vote Conservative. We are the only party | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
able to offer a referendum on whether the UK should be in the EU | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
or not. What was also clear from the European elections, there is no | :42:05. | :42:07. | |
enthusiast and whatsoever from Ed Miliband or Ed Balls, that was quite | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
clear, we saw that recently in Newark as well, there is no concept | :42:12. | :42:14. | |
of there being a government in waiting being put forward bx the | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
waiting being put forward by the Labour Party. We have to move | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
forward, sorry, you will get your chance? ! | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
Now, Ann Barnes, Kent's Polhce and Crime Commissioner, | :42:24. | :42:25. | |
has prided herself on raising the profile of policing in Kent, | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
but she can't be too proud of the media coverage she's had this week. | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
Her second Youth Commissiondr has temporarily been relieved of her | :42:33. | :42:34. | |
duties following allegations she had a close friendship with a married | :42:35. | :42:37. | |
It came a just few days aftdr Mrs Barnes was accused | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
of making the force a laughing stock by taking part | :42:42. | :42:44. | |
These are all the various things, different kinds of policing, OK | :42:45. | :42:52. | |
So what would be an example of a crime on the outside of that rim? | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
I wasn't thinking I was going to talk about the onion. | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
After that performance, there were calls for her resignathon. | :43:04. | :43:11. | |
And this Thursday, she faced the Kent Police and | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
Crime Panel, a scrutiny body which oversees her role. | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
I would like to offer an apology, especially to the hard`workhng men | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
and women of Kent police, who, I know, some of them are very upset | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
I think some people have said you've treated members, senior members | :43:27. | :43:34. | |
We've had three train crashes coming through now. | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
I'd just like to ask the commissioner bluntly, | :43:40. | :43:41. | |
Still, she says for the moment she'll remain in her job, the chair | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
of that Committee said he was impressed by her apology and the | :43:48. | :43:50. | |
Police Federation, which represents rank and file police officers, | :43:51. | :43:53. | |
welcomed the apology and said they were looking forward | :43:54. | :43:55. | |
Quick question to both of you, do you think she should have rdsigned? | :43:56. | :44:04. | |
I think she needs to do somd serious rethinking. Rather than talking | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
about the excellent work thd police about the excellent work the police | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
Tuesday in day out for the last two weeks, we have been talking about | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
some of the mistakes she has made, it was incredibly embarrasshng. | :44:17. | :44:17. | |
some of the mistakes she has made, it was incredibly embarrassing. I do | :44:18. | :44:19. | |
not think she should resign necessarily but she needs to have a | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
hard thing about whether she wants to accept these kind of medha | :44:23. | :44:24. | |
to accept these kind of media engagements. Going on to thdse | :44:25. | :44:25. | |
to accept these kind of medha engagements. Going on to these kind | :44:26. | :44:26. | |
engagements. Going on to thdse kind of media engagements. Going onto the | :44:27. | :44:36. | |
bound to be issues there. So she needs to find new advisers. So | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
naivete, sheeny has embarrassed the police, she needs to move on? I do | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
not think I care about what people think about her, but I know I care | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
about what people think about Kent about what people think abott Kent | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
police. It is a very good Constabulary, people are working | :44:54. | :44:54. | |
very hard to police the are`, Constabulary, people are working | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
very hard to police the area, and she `` and they are being undermined | :45:00. | :45:02. | |
by this keystone cop commission. You by this keystone cop commission. You | :45:03. | :45:09. | |
should care about this. I think we are very close to her having to | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
stand down. You are starting short of saying she should? `` stopping | :45:13. | :45:22. | |
short? Kent police could do better than an Barnes. The Conserv`tive | :45:23. | :45:23. | |
than an Barnes. The Conservative candidate, maybe? Your candhdate | :45:24. | :45:31. | |
lost to Mrs Barnes, if that is what is going on? A lot of the people | :45:32. | :45:33. | |
lost to Mrs Barnes, if that is what is going on? A lot of the pdople in | :45:34. | :45:33. | |
is going on? A lot of the people in your party think she should go. | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
Police commissioners are a good idea because they created accountability | :45:40. | :45:41. | |
between the public and the police. It did not work if someone in it did | :45:42. | :45:48. | |
`` there is someone inept doing the job. There is not a suggesthon | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
`` there is someone inept doing the job. There is not a suggestion she | :45:53. | :45:52. | |
job. There is not a suggesthon she is inept, she has embarrassed | :45:53. | :45:53. | |
job. There is not a suggestion she is inept, she has embarrassdd the | :45:54. | :45:53. | |
police, she has admitted that, is inept, she has embarrassed the | :45:54. | :45:55. | |
police, she has admitted th`t, you could also argue that she has raised | :45:56. | :46:01. | |
the profile of the job. She was also seen in the documentary holding | :46:02. | :46:03. | |
offices to account. Do you think there is resentment on a half of | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
officers that she is good at the job? I have yet to find an officer | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
who thought she was good at the job. She has spent money on renovating | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
property, wasted money, her judgement has singled into puestion | :46:19. | :46:20. | |
judgement has singled into question on more than one occasion. `` called | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
into question. We have an in Paris than as a police Commissiondr for | :46:27. | :46:27. | |
Kent. The big picture, `` we had than as a police Commissioner for | :46:28. | :46:30. | |
Kent. The big picture, `` wd had an embarrassment. The federation is | :46:31. | :46:37. | |
also saying they are looking forward to building bridges with an Barnes. | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
We had in the Queens speech last week, that MPs should be able to be | :46:43. | :46:45. | |
recalled, should the same applied to the police Commissioner? We could | :46:46. | :46:51. | |
look into it. I do not see what she has done wrong which means she | :46:52. | :46:52. | |
should lose her job. We have has done wrong which means she | :46:53. | :46:55. | |
should lose her job. We have seen this media hunt around Kerrx Boyd, | :46:56. | :46:57. | |
this media hunt around Kerry Boyd, the use Commissioner. She h`s had | :46:58. | :47:00. | |
her name dragged through the mud, her name dragged through thd mud, | :47:01. | :47:07. | |
but we do not know the facts. But polished as `` but politicians | :47:08. | :47:08. | |
but we do not know the facts. But polished as `` but politici`ns are | :47:09. | :47:08. | |
polished as `` but politicians are using this as a stick to be`t the | :47:09. | :47:11. | |
using this as a stick to beat the Commissioner with. These ard two | :47:12. | :47:13. | |
Commissioner with. These are two separate issues. Challenge Lrs | :47:14. | :47:16. | |
Barnes on what cheating on her job, but the other things are not | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
relevant. I should point out that this is Barnes is not here to rebut | :47:22. | :47:24. | |
the allegations you just me`n about the allegations you just me`n about | :47:25. | :47:31. | |
expenditure in her office. Hs it not time for her to move on, she has | :47:32. | :47:37. | |
acknowledged her mistakes, she should get on with her job? We have | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
seen that evidence that she would be a capable Commissioner. We have got | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
a very good Constabulary in Kent. Crime is coming down, officdrs are | :47:47. | :47:48. | |
working hard at management and working hard at management and | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
Constable and Sergeant Neville, we should celebrate that. We should | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
have a commissioner who is celebrating them and helping them | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
but we have the opposite of that. This is what the Conservative party | :48:04. | :48:05. | |
wanted in the role, what dods it This is what the Conservative party | :48:06. | :48:06. | |
wanted in the role, what dods it say about the job if you are so | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
frustrated with the person who is doing about? This is why it is | :48:11. | :48:13. | |
frustrating, the policy is good because the first time the public | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
are able to hold the police to account with the Commissiondr. | :48:18. | :48:18. | |
are able to hold the police to account with the Commissioner. It | :48:19. | :48:22. | |
works well around the country and the world. It is being undermined by | :48:23. | :48:26. | |
a commissioner who is not doing her job properly. The chair of the panel | :48:27. | :48:32. | |
said that she was refreshing in her approach and her apology, w`s the | :48:33. | :48:33. | |
approach and her apology, was the panel tough enough in their | :48:34. | :48:39. | |
questions? I think they were, I asked them questions afterw`rd and I | :48:40. | :48:40. | |
listen to it on the radio. I think listen to it on the radio. H think | :48:41. | :48:47. | |
they did very well, and somd good questions are being raised, even | :48:48. | :48:49. | |
when the media spotlight is not on them. They are talking about | :48:50. | :48:52. | |
policing which is what we should be focusing on not the bits around it. | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
Should they have the power of recall, in a world `` in a word No. | :48:57. | :49:02. | |
If you've ever used the river crossing at Dartford, | :49:03. | :49:04. | |
you'll know that it's a journey that can be frustratingly slow, fraught | :49:05. | :49:07. | |
Very soon, though, your journey could be quicker as the new | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
But how long will drivers fdel the benefits? | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
And do we need a longer`term solution? | :49:16. | :49:17. | |
MUSIC: "2`4`6`8 Motorway" by Tom Robinson Band | :49:18. | :49:22. | |
The notorious Dartford to Thurrock River Crossing. | :49:23. | :49:25. | |
One of the slowest and most congested sections | :49:26. | :49:28. | |
# Drive my truck midway to the motorway station | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
# Fairlane cruisers coming up on the left`hand side... # | :49:34. | :49:36. | |
The crossing was built for a capacity of | :49:37. | :49:39. | |
It now regularly carries over 160,000. | :49:40. | :49:46. | |
A figure that's set to rise by up to 20% in the coming xears. | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
Lorry driver Matt Smith uses the road several times a dax. | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
This is a good day, but this can be solid for miles. | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
Soon, these old pay stations will be ripped out to make way for Britain's | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
The system, costing ?367 million over ten years, will use automatic | :50:04. | :50:12. | |
The Highways Agency reckon ht will improve journey times | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
Matt's boss, Chris Smart, is sceptical. | :50:18. | :50:23. | |
Being based in Dartford, we've got to use it. | :50:24. | :50:25. | |
It costs us a lot of money, we have a small fleet | :50:26. | :50:29. | |
of six vehicles but we can be using that ten to 12 times a day. | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
On average, it's costing me between 4,500 to ?5,000 per year. | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
I do feel it's a very expensive experiment. | :50:39. | :50:41. | |
I don't think it's going to make that much difference. | :50:42. | :50:44. | |
The government says the free flow system is good news, cutting harmful | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
emissions and keeping traffic movin for another ten years, | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
with the region feeling the economic benefit within 12 months. | :50:53. | :50:57. | |
For UK traffic, DVLA records will be used. | :50:58. | :51:03. | |
A specialist agency in Europe will track down overseas vehicles. | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
Officials estimate the loss of revenue | :51:08. | :51:10. | |
from foreign lorries skipping the toll could be around ?6 million. | :51:11. | :51:14. | |
Others think it could be millions more. | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
The noncompliance rates typically for this type of scheme are | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
Recovery rates on that, difficult to judge. | :51:23. | :51:30. | |
But, you know, we take evasion seriously. | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
The whole credibility of thd scheme will fall into disrepute if we don't | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
The government recognises that this crossing is vital for the continued | :51:39. | :51:45. | |
Nearly half of the traffic that uses it is made up | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
It's also widely recognised that the free flow system is onlx | :51:52. | :51:57. | |
a short`term solution and what the south`east really needs | :51:58. | :52:01. | |
After years of discussion, plans for the Lower Thames crossing | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
Option A runs adjacent to the existing Dartford Crosshng. | :52:07. | :52:16. | |
And option C links Kent and Essex east of Gravesend. | :52:17. | :52:24. | |
Kent county council favours option C costing ?3.24 billion. | :52:25. | :52:29. | |
But some locals fear a final decision is being ptt off. | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
Our concern about free flow is not the free flow | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
system itself, our concern about it is that it has been used, | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
particularly by our Conserv`tive MP, as an excuse to delay the | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
government's decision on location of a new Lower Thames crossing. | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
And really, that decision has to be made imminently. | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
Dartford cannot afford any more delay on this decision. | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
# Two, four, six, eight, never too late | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
# Me and my radio trucking on through the night... # | :53:01. | :53:03. | |
Although the preferred location of the Lower Thames crossing should | :53:04. | :53:06. | |
be announced by the end of this year, with | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
a general election on the horizon, some fear that date may slip. | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
In the meantime, officials will be keeping | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
a close eye on the impact of the new free flow system, a scheme that is | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
welcomed, but only offers tdmporary relief to a much bigger problem | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
Joining us in the studio now is Natalie Chapman, of the | :53:25. | :53:31. | |
Where do you think the second crossing should go? | :53:32. | :53:40. | |
We think option seat would give the biggest strategic benefits for the | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
area. We have got to remember this area. We have got to remembdr this | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
is not just a regional crossing, it has got national significance. The | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
studies have shown that it will give the biggest economic boost as | :53:54. | :53:54. | |
studies have shown that it will give the biggest economic boost `s well, | :53:55. | :53:54. | |
the biggest economic boost as well, and also help growth and | :53:55. | :54:00. | |
regeneration across East Kent. It would cost a lot and be hugely | :54:01. | :54:02. | |
would cost a lot and be hugdly damaging to the buyer and? There's | :54:03. | :54:04. | |
other downsides. It is by far the other downsides. It is by far the | :54:05. | :54:12. | |
most extensive option, in terms of construction costs, and it does have | :54:13. | :54:15. | |
environmental concerns. So you think environmental concerns. So you think | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
the second crossing benefit the national economy, wherever ht goes? | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
If the third option becomes more difficult, to expensive or | :54:25. | :54:34. | |
contentious, or that, let's just get on and build the first option. The | :54:35. | :54:37. | |
delay is the most important thing. We need additional capacity, and all | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
too often, we wait, we build our houses, create our jobs and then | :54:44. | :54:46. | |
think about the structure to support them afterwards. We need to start | :54:47. | :54:49. | |
thinking ahead for the future and what they need for the south`east | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
and the national economy. In terms of the free flow system, we heard | :54:55. | :54:55. | |
from a haulier there, he said it of the free flow system, we heard | :54:56. | :54:57. | |
from a haulier there, he sahd it is from a haulier there, he said it is | :54:58. | :54:57. | |
going to cost him and not bd from a haulier there, he sahd it is | :54:58. | :54:59. | |
going to cost him and not bd worth it. What is your feeling an | :55:00. | :55:02. | |
organisation? We think it is going to help the current congesthon, | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
organisation? We think it is going to help the current congestion, the | :55:08. | :55:09. | |
proof will be in the pudding. We have to see what happens not just | :55:10. | :55:12. | |
come October when it goes into place, but we will not feel the real | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
benefit until this time next year. There is a certain amount of | :55:17. | :55:20. | |
construction that has got to happen with the toll Plaza. We will not | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
feel the benefit until next year. We are waiting to see the impact of | :55:26. | :55:28. | |
free flow, that means anothdr weight, more delay, that is very | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
frustrating for everybody, not least you, you have got a fight of | :55:33. | :55:35. | |
election next year. I agree we need another crossing across the Thames, | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
we need to take away the congestion even when we have the free flow | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
system. It will be unwise to decide where we are going to put new | :55:45. | :55:46. | |
where we are going to put ndw crossing without first seeing the | :55:47. | :55:50. | |
effects of the flow system. Why, what is that God is to be `` what | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
has not got to do with it? Dveryone agrees the second crossing has got | :55:57. | :56:04. | |
to be made. We do not know what is going to happen when the traffic | :56:05. | :56:06. | |
flow will be changed in October We flow will be changed in October. We | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
continually did but we do not know what is going to happen unthl | :56:12. | :56:12. | |
continually did but we do not know what is going to happen until we | :56:13. | :56:12. | |
what is going to happen unthl we remove the booths. Traffic is | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
predicted to grow in the next decade, you going to change your | :56:17. | :56:21. | |
mind and then say, put it in my constituency? Because you are going | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
to be opposed to it the momdnt. There are variants that we need to | :56:26. | :56:28. | |
talk about, we need to sit see whether we go for a variant on the | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
third option. When we had the consultation last year, people said | :56:34. | :56:41. | |
they were concerned on the environmental and packed of options | :56:42. | :56:49. | |
a and C. They wanted us to look the impact. We know that someond is | :56:50. | :56:50. | |
a and C. They wanted us to look the impact. We know that someone is art | :56:51. | :56:50. | |
impact. We know that someond is art under threat `` some words are under | :56:51. | :56:56. | |
under threat `` some words `re under threat with the third option. The | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
government said they were going to make a decision this year, | :57:02. | :57:04. | |
presumably it would suit you if they delay it after the election, then | :57:05. | :57:08. | |
you would not have any awkwardness with your constituents? The cheapest | :57:09. | :57:15. | |
and quickest option is to expand the crossing to your constituency. That | :57:16. | :57:23. | |
will not give any alternatives to my constituency, we have got | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
expansion... The thing is, motorists, residents, the freight | :57:28. | :57:29. | |
transport Association, everyone is transport Association, everxone is | :57:30. | :57:34. | |
frustrated with the delay. The accusation is, this is going to lose | :57:35. | :57:37. | |
Conservative votes wherever it is built, why not get on with ht? | :57:38. | :57:40. | |
Conservative votes wherever it is built, why not get on with it? Is | :57:41. | :57:40. | |
Conservative votes wherever it is built, why not get on with ht? Is it | :57:41. | :57:43. | |
about the politics and losing votes? The important thing is we gdt it | :57:44. | :57:45. | |
The important thing is we get it right. The important thing hs | :57:46. | :57:48. | |
The important thing is we gdt it right. The important thing is that | :57:49. | :57:50. | |
we should not go ahead and we have got no idea what is going to happen | :57:51. | :57:54. | |
with the toll booths. You are a Kent county council and the council's | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
preferred option is the third option. Yes, and coming back to that | :57:59. | :58:01. | |
point, we do need clarity on it. I point, we do need clarity on it. I | :58:02. | :58:05. | |
agree with a lot of what Natalie said, time after time with this | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
government we see key infrastructure carbon project being delayed. Now | :58:10. | :58:10. | |
everything is happening aftdr the everything is happening aftdr the | :58:11. | :58:18. | |
election. The third route would still be environmentally damaging, | :58:19. | :58:18. | |
still be environmentally dalaging, you are still confident that is the | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
best way? We need clarity. We do not want any more delays, we want an | :58:24. | :58:25. | |
announcement to say where wd want any more delays, we want an | :58:26. | :58:26. | |
announcement to say where we are going. We have got businessds and | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
residents and the council trying to make plans for the future and they | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
do not not what is happening. It keeps get kicked into the long | :58:36. | :58:40. | |
grass. Time now to look at the week in 60 seconds. | :58:41. | :58:51. | |
The bill will enhance the United Kingdom's energy independence. The | :58:52. | :58:59. | |
Queens speech announced changing to laws to allow people to fret `` to | :59:00. | :59:05. | |
allow fracking in people 's houses without permission. EDF has appealed | :59:06. | :59:09. | |
to the nuclear regulator to extended operation at the Dungeness B plant | :59:10. | :59:12. | |
but was accused of trying to move the goalposts. The energy firm wants | :59:13. | :59:15. | |
the goalposts. The energy fhrm wants graphite bricks around the reactor | :59:16. | :59:24. | |
to be allowed more `` degradation than the current regulation. East | :59:25. | :59:28. | |
Sussex Fire and rescue will cut 40 jobs and use a fire engine. It needs | :59:29. | :59:32. | |
to save ?7 million. Medway Council called an obesity summit, whth | :59:33. | :59:37. | |
members of many sectors brainstorming idea to get residents | :59:38. | :59:39. | |
brainstorming idea to get rdsidents slimming down. The third of adults | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
are severely overweight there. We have got to ensure our youngsters | :59:44. | :59:53. | |
have the best start in life. East Sussex Fire service is making those | :59:54. | :59:56. | |
cuts, the union says it will cost lives, but they are forced to do so | :59:57. | :59:58. | |
by the government? These are lives, but they are forced to do so | :59:59. | :59:59. | |
by the government? These ard part of by the government? These ard part of | :00:00. | :00:02. | |
the government's difficult decisions. We have seen some of | :00:03. | :00:05. | |
the government's difficult decisions. We have seen somd of the | :00:06. | :00:06. | |
worst economic conditions shnce the Second World War, | :00:07. | :00:24. | |
my guests. That is it for the Sunday Politics in London. Back to Andrew. | :00:25. | :00:36. | |
Is enough being done to tackle extremism in schools? | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker, will make | :00:41. | :00:49. | |
we are joined by the founder of the Quilliam Association. If you read | :00:50. | :01:11. | |
the Sunday Telegraph this morning, there is a real problem. If you read | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
the Observer, there is not much of a problem. What is the situation in | :01:16. | :01:30. | |
your view in Birmingham? Allegations are seen to be -- if music was not | :01:31. | :01:37. | |
being taught as it should be. Instead of the rating the national | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
holidays here during the Christmas period, children were sent off | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
instead on religious pilgrimage to Mecca, then I think something is | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
going on. From my knowledge, I know about some of the strategies to | :01:52. | :02:00. | |
influence. These strategies are known as gradualism. The idea, like | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is to join the institutions of society | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
and influence from within -- from within. It is a gradual approach to | :02:12. | :02:18. | |
Islamicisation society. We have seen that happening in other areas, such | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
as the decision by the Law Society to call it shy and issue it out as | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
guidance for solicitors. They are saying this means that women inherit | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
half of what men saying this means that women inherit | :02:33. | :02:41. | |
and adopted children do not get any inheritance. Apostates do not get | :02:42. | :02:41. | |
any inheritance. These are guidelines being issued by the Law | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
Society by Islamic. It is a medieval take on Islam. That is what is | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
meant. We see the same names popping up again and again in different | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
situations in Birmingham. Is it a planned infiltration? In my | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
profession of you and planned infiltration? In my | :03:04. | :03:05. | |
profession of you having spent 13 profession of you having spent 3 | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
years on the leadership of an Islamist organisation, having been | :03:09. | :03:08. | |
involved Islamist organisation, having been | :03:09. | :03:21. | |
and setting up schools, I am very Islamist organisation, having been | :03:22. | :03:21. | |
certain is a deliberate plan to influence the students of this | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
country with a medieval interpretation of my own faith to | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
bring about a medieval, conservative view, and enforce things like | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
segregation on boys and girls within our public institutions. With these | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
things be acceptable if they were explicitly they schools? If they | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
were state. We had state Anglican faith schools. We have state | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
Catholic faith schools as well. Would it be acceptable if these were | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
state Islamic schools? That is a policy question. I am not generally | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
in favour. I would believe in this establishment. I am not a fan of | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
faith schools. I do think the solution is to ban them. I do think | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
these schools should start working out with an engaging with the wider | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
communities and not being insular and looking inwards. It is very | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
important. The Ofsted report is coming out tomorrow. We have already | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
had a taste about what it is saying about some of the schools. Is it a | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
serious problem? It is a very serious problem. It comes from the | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
segregation of children into intensely populated areas where | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
everyone is Muslim virtually. You have to have a system of spreading | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
children between schools. It very often happens, even with a secular | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
school like this. Nearby Catholic or Church of England schools become | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
like-for-like schools and that leaves the rest of the state schools | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
to become all of one faith. I think all of the parties are being quite | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
hypocritical about the profound problem of continuing to have faith | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
schools. You have Orthodox Jewish schools with extraordinary dogma | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
being taught. Indeed very strict Catholic schools with amazing dogma | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
being taught. To somehow only get worried when it is Islamic, when it | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
is Muslim schools, becomes a problem. You have to look at the | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
whole issue and said the state should simply withdraw from the | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
business of faith education. Like France? Yes, a secular school. The | :05:31. | :05:45. | |
overall government policy is to take power away. The dilemma with that is | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
that it comes with dangers. Some schools will be incompetent and some | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
schools will be more than incompetent, they will be maligned | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
in some respects. The one bit of this policy which has never been | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
entirely squared is how do you devolve and retain a basic minimum | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
of educational standards and behavioural standards while doing | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
it? There is an even deeper quandary for Britain. We have prided | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
ourselves on allowing radical views that stop short of violence. We took | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe would not have him. The rest of | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
Europe could not believe how tolerably well of radical preachers | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
in the 1990s. Do we stick with that view? The risks were greater than | :06:28. | :06:35. | |
they were 100 years ago. We do expect, whatever peoples faith, that | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
our children, at the expense of the taxpayer, are educated, not | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
instructed, not indoctrinated, educated. We do expect that and also | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
that boys and girls are treated equally. One of the things the board | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
in Birmingham will be looking at which has Andrew Mitchell on it, the | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
former development Secretary, because he is a Birmingham MP full | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
Sutton, they are really concerned about whether the girls are being | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
treated as second-class citizens. There has been a lot of work done on | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
empowerment of girls. Shirley Williams made the point that what | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
Michael Gove has done by creating free schools and academies is | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
undermined the work of local education authorities. They think | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
they are traditional bodies which are not open to reform. One school | :07:21. | :07:27. | |
in Birmingham which is accused of being in trouble is a local | :07:28. | :07:35. | |
education school. They cannot have the other side. Under Michael Gove, | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
they are answerable to the Secretary of State. It is down to Ofsted. | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
Ofsted is giving the schools, not that long ago, outstanding marks. | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
There are big questions about the oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
was trying to answer that point. By tapping it cannot all have gone pear | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
shaped in two years. How do you think that will play out? -- it | :07:58. | :08:08. | |
cannot have gone pear shaped. The story was broken in February. It | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
will keep playing out. The report that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
or Monday. Then there is the other report that will look into wider | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
questions, that will come out in July, I think. We are expecting two | :08:21. | :08:29. | |
points. -- reports. We have to look at questions of Ofsted and other | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
institutions in our society, even government departments, where idea | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
of taxing non-violent extremism became a too boot in this country. | :08:38. | :08:46. | |
-- a taboo. They must be rebuffed the challenge, as we would expect | :08:47. | :08:54. | |
racism to be challenged. In the argument between Michael Gove and | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
Theresa May, where do you side? They should be challenged openly and | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
robust leap by civilian society. It was settled by the Prime Minister | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
and is government policy. I had a hand in advising or consulting. I | :09:09. | :09:17. | |
think Fiona Cunningham was forced to resign because what she did violates | :09:18. | :09:25. | |
official government policy. It just has not been implemented yet. Will | :09:26. | :09:45. | |
Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke? You'll agree he have to decide | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
whether he will spirit at stopping him or accepting him as commission | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
president and ask in return for a massive commission portfolio for | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
Britain, something like the internal market, which they missed out on | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
last time. It is a diplomatic decision he have to make. It is too | :10:01. | :10:09. | |
late for that he is into deep. If he takes over the job, Cameron is left | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
with egg on its face. From the beginning, he did not have his voice | :10:15. | :10:21. | |
with the weight of the British Conservative Party, with ankle and | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
Arkle, the rest of them. He is reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
of them. He is reaping that reward. There is a lot of support within | :10:33. | :10:42. | |
Europe. In Germany, there was a lot of opposition to David Cameron | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
getting his way. I know him from Brussels. He is entertaining, you go | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
to dinner with him and he smokes and drinks. He is entertaining but he is | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
the most awful person you could think of having trying to sort of | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
symbolise a new European Union. I remember I was there join the | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when the voters in France and the | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
Netherlands voted no to the European constitution, what was his response | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
to that? Let's carry on with the ratification process of this treaty | :11:12. | :11:20. | |
that has been comprehensively rejected by voters. He did not say | :11:21. | :11:22. | |
the final bit of that sentence. You can see why Eurosceptics want him. | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
He has blown a raspy at all the people who have protested at the | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
elections with the way the European Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry. | :11:32. | :11:45. | |
This is your most popular... What has come in most recently is doing | :11:46. | :11:59. | |
really well. This is yours. There we go. Cheers! By our people so | :12:00. | :12:09. | |
cynical? They always go for a drink at 11am and they pull their own | :12:10. | :12:17. | |
pipes. I see them every day. -- pts. Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
to mark the idea is to define clearly a liberal brand, or at least | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
I hope it is. It is not good enough for us to say the Liberal Democrats | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
challenge the Tories on this, on the fairer society, and challenge the | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
Labour Party on a strong economy. We need to define what we stand for. | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
That is what I call a liberal brand, assertive liberalism. I have been | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
there myself and I think that is what he will be speaking about. | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
Standing up for liberal values, to finding -- defining what they are. | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
Disestablishment in getting younger people re-engage with politics. The | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
overwhelming number are actually liberal. We only have about 20 | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
seconds. I suggest to you it is too late. Sign up with the one principle | :13:08. | :13:14. | |
on which he stood is Europe. -- the one principle on which he stood if | :13:15. | :13:21. | |
Europe. That is why he has been doing so badly. He cannot get out of | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
the hole he is in. If you fight three general elections to the left | :13:28. | :13:30. | |
of Labour and on the third when you are in coalition with the Tories, | :13:31. | :13:44. | |
you have got a problem. I will be back next week. Remember if it is | :13:45. | :13:51. | |
Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. What's the hardest thing | :13:52. | :14:19. | |
about being a foster parent? You're constantly trying | :14:20. | :14:21. | |
to build the elusive trust. It's like a big old question mark | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
in your heart. I just try and do the best I can | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
for them while they're with me Join Lorraine Pascale as | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
she looks at stories of fostering... I wasn't happy at all, but now I am. | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
..including her own. | :14:34. | :14:36. |