15/06/2014 Sunday Politics South East

Well, this is the closest I'll get to Rio.

The advance of the Islamist army on Baghdad has been slowed.

The Iraqi army claims the fightback has begun.

But the country now faces a de facto partition.

What should Britain, Europe, or the US be doing - if anything?

It's been a big week in the Scottish referendum.

But has the tone of the debate become too downright nasty?

Both sides join us to go head to head.

I will swap Ed Miliband for Tim Farren. What is the significance of

that? Coming up: As police promised a

even Westminster, we'll be asking Coming up: As police promised a

crackdown on lawyers flags hn one crackdown on lawyers flags in one

area... In London, why the minority vote one

recent elections Labour, but recent support amongst people is bigger

than assumed. The Sunni Islamist army known

as ISIS is now in control of huge swathes of northern

and western Iraq, including Until the weekend they looked

like advancing relentlessly on Baghdad but that offensive has

now been slowed or even halted The Iraqi army

and its Shia milita allies vow that Baghdad will not be taken and that

a counter-attack will soon begin. Iraq's Shia Prime Minister Nouri

al-Maliki has to do something to reverse the humiliation

of recent days, which saw his US-trained and equipped Iraqi

army, which outnumbered the Islamists 15 to 1 melt away or

surrender when confronted by ISIS. The conflict has already created a

humanitarian crisis, with hundreds The Kurds have used the conflict to

consolidate their hold on their autonomous area in the north, parts

of the west and the north are in the grip of ISIS control and the Shias

are hunkering down in the east. All of which makes a three-way

partition a real possibility with The US is moving another

of its massive aircraft carrier battlefleets to the Gulf,

though the White House shows no While Iran says it's ready to help

its Shia allies and there are unconfoirmed reports

that its revolutionary guard has Well, I'm joined now by Newsnight's

diplomatic editor Mark Urban. Let's start with some basics. Who

are ISIS and why are they controlling big chunks of Iraq? ISIS

is an extremist militant jihad organisation and they have a pure

Islamic concept based on 14th century history and jurisprudence.

What they want to do is correct -- create this caliphate that do not

recognise colonial boundaries so it involves Syria and Iraq, and they

could go down to Lebanon and Palestine, that is all fair game as

far as they are concerned. And they have this strict interpretation of

Islam. The more interesting question is why have semi-Sunni Muslims,

along with them, these are precisely the sort of people who in 2006,

2007, tribal leaders in the west of the country rose up against. It was

called the Awakening and the Americans in power did and

bankrolled it. These people turned against them and admired them in

large numbers, so why do they have so many Sunni Muslims on their

side? We hear about people going back to Mosul. I think the answer is

a perception back to Mosul. I think the answer

that the current government is ruling in sectarian interests, Shia

Muslim interest, and the Sunni Muslims want self-determination and

this is their best bet. Muslims want self-determination and

this is their Let me put up this map to find out where we are going. We

can see Mosul in the north, they took that, and then they started,

South, reports that the crit was involved -- to grit -- to grit. What

is the situation on the ground now? We are in what you might call a

consolidation or strategic pause as American called it in 2003. ISIS are

trying to consolidate their power in Mosul, and now they have this major

city and they are trying to show they can run the city and get the

power going, etc. Their southernmost forces, that is a gorilla army, guys

in pick-up trucks. They cannot deal with serious opposition. They would

like to get the tanks and other things into action but that could

take weeks for them to be able to do it. The government side is that they

have counter-attacked, but it will take a little while before these

newly raised militia and other task forces, call them what you will, can

forces, call them what you will can effectively counter-attacked. But

that is what will happen in the next week or two. We will see

increasingly large and serious government counter-attacked trying

to retake those places, and I fear a really difficult, bloody Syrian

style street by street battle for some of these urban centres. I would

like to have a look at this map, because the Kurds, as I mentioned,

they are consolidating their position in the autonomous region in

the north. The Islamist are taking over huge chunks of the Sunni Muslim

West. And of course the Shia Muslim are still dominant in control of

Baghdad and in parts of the south and east. Back to me looks like the

beginnings of the partition of Iraq. -- back to me. Well, it is, but we

have to caveat it in a few ways. Firstly, there are millions of

people in Iraq, so-called sushi, combined families, who do not fit

easily into the pattern. Do we see millions of people becoming refugees

under this scheme? There would be a lot of human tragedies if people

really did try to enforce this type partition. Secondly, there are Sunni

Muslim communities in the south of Baghdad, those places, once again, a

lot of misery and fighting will occur if people try to enforce a de

facto partition. There are still an awakening of forces. They are on the

side of the government. We heard about one group in Samarra of Sunni

Muslims fighting on the same side. It's a complex picture. They factor,

it does look like a partition, and if it goes further in that direction

it will. And partition will always be messy because people end up on

the wrong side of the lies. Finally, the big thing on that map,

Iran, a huge place, a huge border with Shia Muslim Iraq. Iran now

becomes a key factor. It is becoming a proxy war for Iran. Yes, when I

was in Baghdad a few months ago I was in Baghdad a few months ago, I

did actually see Iranians revolutionary guards in uniform

They were protecting a senior Iranians official, so some numbers

have been never some time and they are also said to protect the

political leaders and -- in his compound. They are there. We think

more of them are trying to organise the defence of Baghdad to galvanise

the Iraqi army, and they will not allow the Iraqi government to fall.

Mark, thank you for marking archive this morning. -- marking our card.

Tony Blair took Britain into the Iraq conflict in 2003.

He's now, among other things, envoy to the Middle East representing

That's the UN, the EU, the US and Russia.

This morning he entered the debate about what should be

My point is simple. If you left Saddam in place in 2003, when 2 11

Saddam in place in 2003, when 2011 happened and you have the Arab

revolutions going through Tunisia, Libya, Yemen, Bahrain and Egypt and

Syria, you would still have had a major problem in Iraq. You can see

what happens when you leave the dictator in place, as has happened

with Bashar al-Assad. The problem doesn't go away. What I'm trying to

say is, we can rerun the debates about 2003, and there are perfectly

legitimate points on either side, but where we are in 2014, we have do

understand that this is a regional problem, but a problem that will

affect us. And I'm joined by the former Foreign

Office minister Mark Malloch-Brown, Here in London are James Rubin,

he was chief spokesman for the State Department under

Bill Clinton, and Bayan Rahman, she represents the Kurdistan

Regional government in the UK. Intervened in Iraq, it's a shambles,

we don't intervene in Syria, it's a we don't intervene in Syria, it s a

shambles. What lessons should we draw? That is a well framed

question, because that is the problem. Tony Blair is half right.

Iraq, like Syria, would probably have been a problem even without an

intervention. But one wishes someone would tell him to stay quiet during

moments like this, because it does drive a great surge of people in the

other direction. The fact is, what has been missing in western politics

towards the Middle East throughout both episodes, Syria and Iraq, is a

drive to build an inclusive, democratic centre which is secular

and nonsectarian. That has been missing amongst the threats of

invasion Manon invasion, we have just constantly neglected the

diplomatic nation-building dimensional this. I want to come

onto what is happening on the ground. I want to begin with what

the Western response by me, and by that we mean the United States,

because of it doesn't do anything, nobody will do anything. All of the

signals I see coming out of the White is that Barack Obama has no

appetite for intervention -- out of the White House. I don't think he

does have an appetite. He would be very unlikely to do anything very

large. He might feel pressured to act because of the fact that this

particular group, this Al-Qaeda inspired group, fits into the

strategy he has pursued in Yemen and Afghanistan and Pakistan, to use

drone strikes against individual terrorists. So it is possible that

the threat of ISIS in the region and the West in general might inspire

him to act, but the idea he will do enough, militarily, to transform

Iraq from its current state of civil War into something along the lines

that Mark was talking about, nation-building diplomacy, a big

operation, I don't see President Obama sees his historic mission as

having got the United States as out of it. Leave it to the Pacific,

perhaps. What would the Kurds like the West to do? First of all, in

Kurdistan we face a huge humanitarian crisis. We already have

had bought a quarter of a million Syrian refugees and we were

struggling to cope with that. And now we have at least double that

number of refugees coming from Mosul. First and foremost, we are

calling on the international community to help us with that. So

we need humanitarian aid? Let's assume we do that in some way, maybe

not enough, but what else if anything? I think it is an incumbent

on the west and other powers to assist Iraq to get rid of ISIS. I

think the Sunni Arab community, some of whom have joined ISIS and may be

supported the uprising, have justified complaints against the

federal government. But we need the terrorists out of Iraq. That is

first and foremost. And what the West can do is not necessarily

intervene with boots on the ground, but provide technical assistance,

provide intelligence and help the Iraqi army and air force to be more

targeted. Can you defend yourselves? In Kurdistan, we can in terms of the

disciplined troops. In this situation, I hope they won't be

abandoning their post, that is for sure. It is a national cause fires.

But we are not armed in the way that the Iraqi army is -- cause for us.

We are not armed in the way that ISIS seems to be now they have

seized some of the American kit. We are not asking for weapons, but we

ask for assistance for all of Iraq to deal with the situation. Mark,

this is not just an Iraqi problem. This is a regional conflict, and

from the Levant on the shores of the Mediterranean, all the way through

to the Gulf, the region is gripped with what is essentially a Sunni and

Shia Muslim sectarian war. Yes, with the caveats that Mark bourbon made

earlier, it's not quite that straightforward, but the basic

divide is exactly that -- Mark Urban. People have been looking for

this to begin in Lebanon or Jordan and have been taken by surprise

although with hindsight I'm not sure why, that it has begun in Iraq

instead. At its most extreme, it risks redrawing the 20th century

boundaries of the region in a way which would be highly unstable

because it would pit a Shia Muslim bloc against the Sunni Muslim bloc

and would undo all of the sort of social and economic advance of the

last century, so the stakes are suddenly very, very high indeed Are

we seeing the redrawing? The lines were drawn secretly, not far from

here, about a mile away, and may have survived through thick and

thin. They now look pretty fragile. The map is being redrawn. I think it

is true that there is a key factor partition going on -- des facto.

Woodrow Wilson probably gave a bit of a hand to the promotion of the

idea of self-determination, and in a way, there is a self determination

going on, particularly in the Kurdish region, and perhaps they may

end up the big winners in all of this, because they have proceeded

with a relatively moderate, reconcilable government. The key

thing that the Kurdish region has done. They used to fight the two

groups, and now they fight together. What the Sunni Muslims have not done

is figure out how to let politics let the side things instead of guns.

We need to look clearly and in Syria and Iraq, if there is a Sunni

extremist with ISIS that carves out a place for itself, it will be the

great irony of the modern era. President Bush said he wanted to go

into Iraq to fight terrorism. There was no terrorist. There are now. If

in Iraq and Syria together thereat a thousand strong Al-Qaeda capability

that threatens the region, the West, the world, we are all going to

have to do something about it. The danger is that power will

spread. This could grow in power. You would not want it on your

southern border. Absolutely, we would not. The point we are all

making indirectly is that things have changed in Iraq and will never

be the same again. Whether Iraq completely disintegrates into three

countries, or whether it stays together as one country, but a

countries, or whether it stays together as one country, but loose

federation, either way, Iraq has changed. It will not go back to what

it was. I hope it will change for the better. I think we're at the

make or break point for Iraq. Either the political readers -- the

political leaders of a right wake up and smell the coffee and put aside

their differences or there will be problems. This provides that

opportunity, in a very nasty way. If we take it? Yes, and if not, I think

this is the end of a rack as we know it. If anything resembling a

caliphate emerges, that is very destabilising for the region itself.

More so I would suggest than even the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in

Afghanistan. At some stage, you have to assume that they will be coming

for us. That is correct. This is extremely dangerous. The only way

forward is for these political groups to talk to each other and

find a compromise that allows the rates of cinemas and minorities in

Iraq to be protected within or the rates of cinemas and minorities in

Iraq to be protected with an autonomous federal-state. Any

support for the government must be premised on that. There is no

military solution for this which is in during -- there is no military

solution for this. There must be serious political negotiation, not

with ISIS, but with Sunni Muslim moderates, to form a more

representative government. This is the last chance for Iraq. I think we

are all saying that that is going to need to be some major western

leadership to make some big decisions here for the future of the

region. I am concerned that after Afghanistan and Iraq, my country is

quite world-weary, quite world-weary. It does not seem to be

giving leadership. Certainly we are not seeing that in Europe. I am

deeply concerned that we are not going to take the leadership role

that needs to be taken. These are big issues. When Britain and France

carved up the Middle East, they were world powers, operating as global

powers, and without that global leadership by somebody, this is just

going to get worse and worse. I think we will leave it there, thank

you very much. The danger is that power will

spread. This could grow in power. It is just under 100 days until the

referendum on Scottish independence. So, for once,

it'll be a long hot-summer But the campaign isn't

just getting heated. In places it's also

down-right nasty. When Scotland's best-selling author

announced she was giving the unionist cause a million pounds

this week, she received Independence supporters online,

so-called cybernats, called JK Rowling a traitor

and much worse, using a variety of For its part, the Better Together

campaign has been accused Even Gordon Brown seems to think so,

and this week he criticised Conservative ministers

for relying on "threats With the Edinburgh Festival

approaching, reports suggest even comedians are now reluctant to

engage in the subject because I'm joined by Blair Jenkins from

Yes Scotland and Jackie Baillie They're both in our Glasgow studio,

and they're going head to head. Blair Jenkins, let me come to you

first. Why have you and the Better Together campaign and Alex Salmond

not done more to slap down the cyber nationalists who are poisoning the

debate? Good morning. I think both sides tried to stop the tiny number

of people on both sides who are incapable of controlling

themselves. We should not get this out of proportion. We are having a

fantastic, decent and democratic debate. The people who probably

total no more than 100 on both sides who post offensive material or not

to be allowed to deflect from that fact. Of course there are nasty

people on the Better Together side as well, but are you saying there

are as many of those as the cyber nationalists? I have not done the

Kent. Lots of people are certainly posting nasty in defensive things to

people in the yes campaigners well. I imagine that people do what I do,

and block them. You stop them from sending anything further. There is a

democratic and in gauging progress going on throughout Scotland. It is

characterised by good humour and good debate. We should not get out

of proportion and the activities of the number of people. I want to get

to Jackie Baillie. The debate is actually pretty good-humoured and

you should be doing more about the nasties on your side as well? I

think we have reached a new low this week. Despite many people engaging

in the politics of the decision and the debate about that, whether we

want to retain the best of both worlds are separate from the United

Kingdom, what we have seen is the most abusive and vitriolic attack,

particularly on women, JK Rowling and a Labour supporter who dared to

support the no campaign. When you look at the number of people on

social media, there are more from the yes campaign than the no site.

We should all be condemning attacks, from whatever quarter they come.

This seemed to be connected to the office of the First Minister. What

is the evidence for that? There was an e-mail from one of the... I

understand about that, but it did not use vile words. It did not, but

it repeated the same mistake as on the website. We should be clear that

we need to condemn these attacks, but it is not just the water works,

it is taking action. There was an IpsosMORI poll this week which was

varying testing. It showed the population as a whole, farmer people

think that Yes Scotland is running an effective campaign as against

Better Together. It is a undecided voters think this by a majority of

four 21. Some people are worried about of the campaign. JK Rowling,

Scotland's most successful author of all time. She gives ?1 million to

the Better Together campaign. She then faces some of the most

incredible abuse. I know what it is like because I have had some myself.

Traitor, Quisling. I cannot use some of the words, it is Sunday morning.

Why does Scottish Nationalists culture have such a revolting

fringe? JK Rowling is entitled to our views and it is unacceptable if

people say offensive things about her or anyone else who voices and

opinion in this debate. Who are obese people? When you look at the

accounts of some of the people who were posting these things about JK

Rowling, they were using the same sort of language about film stars

and football stars. This was just part of their language on Twitter.

How often has Alex Salmond condemned the cyber nationalists? Very often.

Everyone in the campaign hands. By common consent, Yes Scotland is

running a thoroughly positive campaign, much more positive than

Better Together. Jackie Baillie, campaign, much more positive than

Better Together. Jackie Baillie it hardly helps matters when Alistair

Darling, who runs your campaign compares Alex Salmond to Kim Jong Il

and North Korea. That hardly elevates the debate? I think we need

to elevate the debate. There are less than a hundred days to go. It

is a massive decision. We need to elevate the debate beyond attacks. I

think there is much more that Yes Scotland and the SNP can do. You

have made that point. Why are you running a campaign based on fear?

The codename of your campaign is even project fear. It is threats.

You cannot have the pound, there will be no shipbuilding. You will be

flooded by immigrants. Why are you so negative? I am not negative at

all and neither is the campaign. The all and neither is the campaign The

campaign has asked questions and I think it is legitimate to ask

questions of the people proposing such a fundamental change. People

care about the economy, their jobs, their families. What would happen to

them if they leave the rest of the United Kingdom. I think it is

legitimate to ask questions. I refuse to be asked of

scaremongering. People deserve answers. The yes campaign is equally

guilty of some of the most outrageous scaremongering. Maybe you

are both scaremongering. Blair Jenkins, the First Minister said of

the cyber nationalists, that they are just Daft folk, as if they were

mischievous little children. It is worse than that. When you look at

what they say, they are twisted, perhaps even evil minds. I would not

disagree with his comments, but they are directed at just a small number

of people. The story of this campaign is not the story of what

people are saying on Twitter. Around Scotland, lots of people are getting

engaged in debate to have been tuned out of the political process. Today,

we have 47% support for the yes campaign. The movement in the

campaign is towards yes. People know we have a better campaign, a vision

for Scotland. The latest poll of polls does not show that. Both

sides, you always take the opinion polls that show you in the best

light. All politicians do that. Jackie Baillie, your campaign is not

just negative, it is patronising. You make dubious claims that Scots

would be ?1400 better off by staying in the union, and then you say that

the kids use the money to scoff 280 hotdogs at the Edinburgh Festival.

The fate of the nation is in your hands and that is the best you can

do? I think you will find that the campaign is something that we are

taking the message to people. Then why are you talking about hotdogs? I

do not. The campaign did. We are taking a positive message to people

across Scotland about the benefits of the United Kingdom. We believe we

are stronger and more secure and more stable, being part of that

family of nations that is the United Kingdom. At the same time, we have

the strange and power over things like education and transport. I

understand that. I am not doing the issues today, I am talking about the

tone of the campaign. I have one very important question. Who would

you supporting last night in the England-Italy match? I was not

watching the game. I would be delighted to see England do well in

this tournament. I have Argentina in the office sweepstake. I have to

keep some attention on them, but I would be delighted to seeing Clint

do well. That is because you think it will help your campaign. It will

annoy the Scots. Jackie Baillie? I annoy the Scots. Jackie Baillie I

was supporting England. I was also supporting Portugal.

Now most of you probably missed last night's football match

between England and Italy because you wanted to get an early night and

England lost despite a plucky effort, I'm told.

But even Westminster is in the grip of World Cup fever

and with speculation about the fitness of each political

party's team we sent Adam out to tackle some of the big players.

Well, this is the closest I'll get to Rio.

This year everybody seems to have gone a bit mad Belize, football

stickers. Let's see who I will get. Oh, the suspense -- a bit mad for

these. George Osborne? That is because we leapt on the bandwagon

and made Alan political stickers. They're hotter than a Brazilian

barbecue. And at Westminster they're

turning into collector?s items. Sunday politics political stickers.

We have one of you, Norman. Would you like it? Do you want to start

collecting, Bob? Would you like a packet?

collecting, Bob? Would you like a Thank you. No album, I'm afraid.

collecting, Bob? Would you like a Thank you. No album, I've got

Michael Gove, next to to Reza, and two of the Prime Minister. -- next

to Theresa. I am sure Michael has Theresa in her stick around, and

vice versa. These Tory ones are proving very

popular since she fell out with him out how

to handle extremism in schools. And there's been open speculation

about him taking on him in Then there are rumours of a

reshuffle of the whole Tory album. Do you think there will be any

swapping in the Tory leadership soon? Who knows? David Cameron has

also got to replace the EU commissioner, Cathy Ashton, who is

standing down. Does he go with the favourite

the former health secretary Or the grassroots choice,

Martin Callanan, the Tories old Or does he rehabilitate

Andrew Mitchell after Plebgate? Do you fancy being European

Commissioner? I would rather be spending the money on the world's

spending the money on the world s poor and spending it well. Glad to

hear it. Happy collecting. Right, there must be some Labour

stickers out there. You don't want to swap Ed Balls any

of the others? Can't I keep them all? This is almost the perfect

team. There have been grumblings

about the fitness of the Shadow And Ed Miliband's got a kicking

in Liverpool after posing I'm told grown men are meeting up

in pubs for sticker swaps - With Danny Finkelstein -

Tory peer and Times columnist, He would be the card I would not

want to trade. Do people want to trade him in? I don't think anybody

wants to trade him in at the moment. He is the best person to lead the

Labour party and will lead us into the next election. There's been a

lot about Michael Gove, and he's very combative. That's been a huge

strength as an education Secretary, despite the fact it's brought in

trouble. I would think the prime minister would tell him not to get

himself into peripheral battles at the moment but stick to what has

been successful. I haven't got Nick Clegg, but I got me. Controversy

amongst collectors of Lib Dems. I need to give away me in return for

Nick Clegg. That would be far better. There you are.

Some local parties are holding meetings about his leadership,

but at one in Cambridge this week they voted to stick with him.

You have got a Euro Commissioner. Why don't I swap, I will swap Ed

Miliband for Tim Farren. Can I do that? What is the significance of

that? Very significant. Happy collecting.

These beauties are popping up everywhere, but sadly they won't

Adam is still doing the samba around Westminster as I speak.

I'm joined by three journalists who've been

furiously swapping stickers throughout the show, they certainly

weren't allowed to stay up to watch the football, it's Nick Watt,

We will talk about Labour after the break, and I want to concentrate on

the Tories, but the moment, Nick, senior Tories are saying privately

that they might win next May. They are beginning to dream the dream. So

why are they doing all this jockeying? I think the jockeying for

the leadership is about a year old. What stoped it up was when Theresa

gave a speech to the conference and gave a speech to the conference, and

people said she was doing it just in case, when things were not looking

too good. She is not on manoeuvres. I think it was a policy row that

drove the differences with Michael Gove. But Michael Gove is on

manoeuvres, and he is trying to protect George Osborne from, he

believes, a serious threat from Boris Johnson and possibly Theresa.

It is quite self-indulgent when you are a couple of points behind, the

economy is going your way, to be involved in this sort of stuff.

Extraordinary. It shows the toxic disease that gnaws at the entrails

of the Tory party, and Cameron is their great asset. He is more

popular than the party, he bridges the gap is, and he has an

extraordinary dissemble and some pretending to be this moderate while

never the lens -- nevertheless leading the most far right wing

government we have had since the war, and that has been a brilliant

piece of political Charente and they would be crazy to get rid of it --

political Charente. piece of political Charente and they

would be crazy to get rid of it -- charades. Does this rumble on? I

have an unfashionable view as there aren't half as many leadership plots

taking place in Westminster as we assume, and the willingness to read

strategic calculation into anything that takes place comes from people

watching I Claudius or house of cards. That hasn't been off -- on

for years. I needed a reference from your time. I needed something. Maybe

brief encounter? It's a stylised view of how politics works, and so

much more in life is about randomness and mistakes. Boris

Johnson, Theresa May, Michael Gove as George Osborne's man on earth,

they are positioning themselves -- Janan wrote an eloquent comment this

week about this, but there are certain realities that. Michael Gove

had that famous dinner with Rupert Murdoch a few weeks ago in which he

said that you must not make Boris Johnson leader of the Conservative

party, George Osborne is my man. Theresa May set out her credo two

years ago and people on her team were saying that she was doing it

just in case. People are out there and are thinking of the future, but

I do think Janan is right. In the village, in the thick of it mindset,

you can get a bit carried away and you can be a bit in the famous. That

is before your era. He died. What did he mean by it. You can get a bit

carried away by it. I will have words with you during the break

It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be talking about Ed Miliband's

brigades Union about cuts which will affect jobs. Fire stations will be

affected. We will get reaction later from our guests. Welcome. Ldt's

start with the cost of commuting. from our guests. Welcome. Let's

start with the cost of commuting. In the south east, if you travdl

start with the cost of commtting. In the south east, if you travel to

London by train, you could be pays the `` paying ?5,000 a year. With

more people working at home, a part`time ticket can save you

thousands of type `` pounds. Here is what commuters in Tunbridge Wells

had to say. IWork part`time, so it would be cheaper to use the trade. I

think it would be more balanced and fair. I'd don't always work here, so

sometimes there are weeks when I've might not be using my ticket. If

they can just pay for days that they go, I'm sure me people would want to

travel by train. These savings had been put for part`time season`ticket

around ?1700, ?2000 if you commute from Canterbury. You are often heard

speaking up for commuters in the South East. Are you going to lobby

for these part`time season tickets? It sounds like a good idea. A lot of

people who don't travel by train will be surprised to hear that you

can get a different type of membership, such as eight Jim.

can get a different type of membership, such as eight Jhm. A lot

membership, such as eight Jim. A lot of people like to move it down to

the south for that quieter life but want to go into London and are not

commuting every day, this would be welcome indeed. I would certainly

encourage my colleagues at the Department for Transport to look at

this very carefully. You ard an IT this very carefully. You ard an IT

expert by trade. Would a part`time system be easier to operate? I was

in that position myself, doing a few days a week to London. You need to

go at least four days a week at the moment. We have an incredible

workforce and we should be encouraging a more varied way of

encouraging a more varied w`y of using public transport in the should

have been done a long time `go. using public transport in the should

have been done a long time ago. You have been done a long time `go. You

think a season ticket would be better? What people should be having

is, the rest of the country should be getting something like the oyster

card, so there are more Fox ways of payment, rather than talking about a

card with a bar code on it. `` flexible ways. But the oystdr card

flexible ways. But the oyster card is susceptible to fraud. I wonder if

that is a better system. It is slightly above my pay grade. I am

not that familiar. More flexibility or innovation, more competition,

that is what we are getting. It is an exciting time for the railways.

Widely recognised that therd is an exciting time for the rahlways.

Widely recognised that there is a Widely recognised that therd is a

huge housing needed the South East. The government has responded by

making it easier for developers to avoid the managed energy`efficient

standards for homes. `` the most. But could the plans backfird?

Pneumonia that will stand for decades to come. `` new homds. But

decades to come. `` new homes. But are they clean and green? The

government had promised all new homes should meet strict zero carbon

environmental standards by 2016. environmental standards by 2016.

Some of the most ambitious targets in the world. Now the coalition

wants to act away from the pledge, allowing developers to build to a

lower standard of energy efficiency, provided that they pay into

environmental schemes which offsets the difference in carbon emissions.

the difference in carbon emhssions. Small sites will be exempt from that

aspect of the polity. `` policy You aspect of the polity. `` policy You

stand to benefit from higher energy standards through lower energy

bills, but it could be pervdrse in bills, but it could be pervdrse in

terms of outcome for the government, because we could see less

progressive builders making smaller developments to get a round of the

regulation and that could ldad to slower housing delivery. This

regulation and that could lead to slower housing delivery. Thhs is a

sustainable home with minim`l heating bills. It is not completely

heating bills. It is not colpletely zero carbon, but that is part of the

government's problem. It is difficult to achieve and more

expensive to build. But what does zero carbon mean? It starts with the

fabric of the building. Airtight with thick, well insulated walls

keeping in the heat. A systdm to supply controllable, fresh air.

keeping in the heat. A system to supply controllable, fresh `ir. But

a log burner with a back boiler to a log burner with a back boiler to

heat the house. Triple glazhng to heat the house. Triple glazing to

look at the warmth and a solar water heating system. The shell of the

building cost around 10% more than an average home, but the grden

developer to build it says that is nothing in the life span of a house.

It is going to cost more money, but if someone's bills are negligible

It is going to cost more money, but if someone's bills are neglhgible or

if someone's bills are negligible or a 10th of what they were before

surely it is the best investment. Should all new houses be billed to

that standard? Absolutely. @sk anyone if they would like their

bills to be easier, everyone will bills to be easier, everyone will

say yes. If development is one of the greenest in the UK, with

everything from rooftop allotments to solar panels. The 107 22

apartments currently run `` 172 apartments currently running at ..

The UK has been a leader in terms of talking about a zero carbon. In the

way that policy has been proposed in the way we are delivering it, we are

not leading. If you look at other countries, particularly Gerlany

countries, particularly Germany, Sweden, Denmark, I think thdy

countries, particularly Gerlany Sweden, Denmark, I think they are

Sweden, Denmark, I think thdy are becoming the leaders, and we are

fast going to see the US st`rting to fast going to see the US st`rting to

create many more zero carbon developments. Official figures

estimate that the South East will grow by 12% in the decade bdtween

2011 and 2021, creating demand grow by 12% in the decade between

2011 and 2021, creating dem`nd for an extra 200,000 households. That is

an average of 20,000 new homes an extra 200,000 households. That is

an average of 20,000 new holes a year to stop the plan is to build

100,000 homes in just six ydars 100,000 homes in just six years,

from 2015. The speed of delhvery is from 2015. The speed of delivery is

important for economic growth in the region, but so far, developdrs

important for economic growth in the region, but so far, developers are

not keeping pace. As demand for housing and house prices both

increase, David Cameron says that he wants to stimulate the construction

industry I'd get Britain building industry I'd get Britain building

again. But some say the rel`xing again. But some say the rel`xing

green targets come at a time when green targets come at a timd when

fuel poverty a key national debates, makes little sense. It doesn't make

sense that the government are pulling back on this policy. Aber

introduced it in 2006 and they wanted to give ten years to give

developers a chance to build zero carbon homes. `` labour. It was a

long`term way to tackle fuel poverty. What we can do is control

the energy efficiency of homes, poverty. What we can do is control

the energy efficiency of holes, but the energy efficiency of holes, but

we have to start doing it now. There is no question that the South East

needs more homes, but there is a growing sense of unease amongst

environmental groups about the claimant from the premise to that

his government is the greendst ever. his government is the greendst ever.

I was checking out quote. This worker the Prime Minister that his

government. `` the Prime Minister that his government is the greatest

ever. This is cut the green clap, isn't it? Let's be absolutely

clear. We are implementing on the ground ambitious green policies,

ground ambitious green policies mobilising ?3.8 billion in the last

three years. We are talking about this decision about house`building.

Even Cameron has said, cut the green stuff. `` David Cameron. Th`t is a

misquote. That has been perpetuated by people misquoting. What this is

about, it is about being sensible. You can be ideological and push up

costs for hard`working families or you can be sensible and pragmatic

and try to dry down the cost. The minister responsible for energy

responsibility, and I know H'm minister responsible for endrgy

responsibility, and I know I'm not responsibility, and I know H'm not

going to get popular support for the green agenda and by taking

ideological support that will push up the cost of housing. We have to

bring down the cost of energy. We are talking about houses behng built

to high energy standards. Less than to high energy standards. Less than

10% of the houses in the sotth to high energy standards. Ldss than

10% of the houses in the south east. 10% of the houses in the sotth east.

You are talking about driving prices down. One man says he wonders around

his home in a T`shirt in thd winter his home in a T`shirt in the winter

with the heating off. As a linister with the heating off. As a linister

for the Department of Energy and for the Department of Energx and

Climate Change, don't you want more Climate Change, don't you w`nt more

of that? Yes, and you will find that many of those houses cost a lot more

and it depends on the indivhdual. We could see from the pictures, that

was not the size of a normal home. Triple glazing costs more than other

forms of glazing. What is happening forms of glazing. What is h`ppening

is there are a lot of different types of developments. We're talking

types of developments. We'rd talking about being a little pragmatic. The

design became the minister hn about being a little pragmatic. The

design became the minister hn 2 10, we brought down the price of solar

by 70%. The number of people we brought down the price of solar

by 70%. The number of people with solar panels on their roofs, it is

now over 1 million people who sleep under a solar panel. , and the

people are in the other initiative? The green deal. In the Southeast,

the number of people who have a light green deal? I am talkhng

the number of people who have a light green deal? I am talking about

light green deal? I am talkhng about installations. You are talking about

installations. You are talkhng about finance. I am talking about how many

people who have put in green deal measures. Do not misquote old

chestnuts. We are driving energy efficiency but we are proud that we

are going to do that in a way that are going to do that in a way that

does not drive up costs. For ordinary working families, it is

part of a long`term economic plan and does not use housing as a

plaything. Offering bigger developments the opportunitx to pay

what amounts to a penalty... Level five is a step change. I am trying

to ask you a question and you are trying to avoid talking about the

trying to avoid talking abott the fact that you are giving them

trying to avoid talking about the fact that you are giving thdm added

chance to avoid doing it. Why do `` what is so clever about allowing...

We are doing it because he want to have a little bit more flexhbility.

You can be ideological and push up the cost of housing for people who

are already struggling to get a are already struggling to gdt a

mortgage to cover the cost of a new home. Great if you are a well`paid

middle`class professional. Having an extra ?20,000 on the cost of your

house doesn't matter, but there are a lot of people watching or whom

cost of home ownership is just cost of home ownership is jtst

within their grip, and we bring that down and be more sensible, not by

throwing the baby out with the bath water or watering it down

ridiculously, but by just being a little bit more pragmatic, that is a

good thing. What he is saying is, his government wants houses that are

unaffordable to heat and maintain unaffordable to heat and mahntain

and for a few thousand pounds more you can make dramatic changds

and for a few thousand pounds more you can make dramatic changes in

those homes, and there is a policy that would exceed the national

standards, and inspectors h`ve said standards, and inspectors have said

we have to go to the lowest common denominator and delete the policy.

They could have been 10 million solar panels if you have not messed

around with the tariff so m`ny around with the tariff so many

times. With regarding to bux a times. With regarding to buy a

warehouse. How much were yot times. With regarding to bux a

warehouse. How much were you paying warehouse. How much were yot paying

for them? We cannot proceed let's be for them? We cannot proceed let s be

specific `` we cannot proceed. Let's specific `` we cannot procedd. Let's

be specific. If the get `` if specific `` we cannot proceed. Let's

be specific. If the get `` if this gets developed, and builders are

building more quickly, it is a good thing, people need homes. Of course

they do, but in Britain, developers want to exceed the standards because

that is attractive to purch`sers want to exceed the standards because

that is attractive to purchasers at that is attractive to purchasers at

it reduces the total cost of ownership, and what the signals from

government are, push a little bit and Roback. A complete and out. We

were looking at the fact th`t this could be counterproductive. `` opt

out. We haven't published the details. What is the smaller

developments going to do? There could be a perverse disincentive

here too big developments, they could have been piecemeal, and that

could have been piecemeal, `nd that would have the opposite effect. I am

would have the opposite effdct. I am trying to ask a question, that is my

job. The bottom line is, we haven't published the details. The idea is

published the details. The hdea is to be pragmatic, not ideological,

but to make sure that we have more efficient homes, and the have zero

carbon in a way that does not drive up the costs of homes for people

carbon in a way that does not drive up the costs of homes for pdople who

up the costs of homes for people who are already on a tight budgdt.

up the costs of homes for pdople who are already on a tight budget. Final

question on the subject. Level for energy efficiency is still ` massive

improvement. Why is it not enough? improvement. Why is it not dnough?

We know that other countries can deliver level five and above

We know that other countries can deliver level five and abovd without

additional costs, and in the deliver level five and above without

additional costs, and in thd car additional costs, and in thd car

industry, ambitious targets force the manufacturers to change their

behaviour, and I've think house builders in this country to do with

some of that push from government, and not these mixed messages from

the government. I have spokdn to the government. I have spokdn to

suppliers and technologies and the government. I have spoken to

suppliers and technologies and we are seeing a huge transform`tion.

suppliers and technologies `nd we are seeing a huge transformation. We

are seeing a huge transform`tion. We are splitting hairs and trying to

are splitting hairs and tryhng to pretend... We should stay ambitious.

I am going to be ambitious `nd try I am going to be ambitious and try

to move us off the subject. The decision has been made about where

cuts to the Sussex where service will follow. If the jobs will go and

a fire engine will be removed will follow. If the jobs will go and

a fire engine will be removed from Britain. `` 50 jobs. It is `ll

a fire engine will be removdd from Britain. `` 50 jobs. It is all part

Britain. `` 50 jobs. It is `ll part of a cost`saving process in which

the Fire Service has to save the Fire Service has to save

millions of pounds. The fird authority which made the decision

says they carefully dropped plans that maintain response standards.

The public is safe, that is good news, isn't it? It is not, because

the plans are dishonest and do not give the public the truth. The plans

will increase response times. In Britain, the cutting of a pump will

Britain, the cutting of a ptmp will make it impossible for the Fire

Service to deal with one high`rise incident. The chief officer has said

he will be able to deal with two simultaneous incidents in Britain.

We cannot see high `` how. What is the worst`case scenario herd? Fire

the worst`case scenario here? Fire has reduced. The number of hncidents

has reduced. The number of incidents has dropped in the number of traffic

accidents have dropped, and that is good news, but if you have ` fire,

good news, but if you have a fire, you are more likely to get hnjured

you are more likely to get injured and you are likely to suffer a

fatality, businesses are more likely to go out of business. Say you are

saving lives will be lost. That is quite an irresponsible mess`ge.

According to a review from the Fire Service, savings can and should be

made, that is the view of an insider. That review was a bit of a

joke. They took together... It is a serious independent report. You are

calling it a joke. The man who wrote that review was then played for a

long time. The review looked at the 46 Fire Services and looked at the

average cost of the lowest Fire Service and spread that out as an

average of savings that havd Service and spread that out as an

average of savings that have been average of savings that have been

made across the board. What about East Sussex? Call`outs down 36%. It

is not unreasonable to cut further then, is it? You have to have the

insurance service of making sure you have an effective response, not just

for fires, but for red traffic accidents at all the other

environmental risks that ard there. This worker road traffic `` road

traffic stop `` road traffic. Are you concerned about the loss? Yes. A

significant number of firefhghters did vote against it. I understand

the Authority are in a diffhcult the Authority are in a diffhcult

position because the government the Authority are in a difficult

position because the governlent is putting the bulk of the cut to

budgets and local councils and fire budgets and local councils `nd fire

authorities, 43% reductions, far above the cuts of any department. I

don't want Brighton to see this loss, but we have to recognhse

don't want Brighton to see this loss, but we have to recognise where

loss, but we have to recognhse where the blame lies, it is the government

doing the cutting. By contr`st, good doing the cutting. By contrast, good

news, but your governments hs the news, but your governments hs the

reason that he could not raise his reason that he could not rahse his

council tax, which we know he wanted to do, which would have helped him

keep his fire engine. You are all right, Jack. We have had thhs

problem because of the deficit that was run up by Gordon Brown and

problem because of the deficit that was run up by Gordon Brown `nd that

was run up by Gordon Brown and that we are still dealing with. @re we

bored of this? I think we are! How long have you been in government? To

be fair, the specific issue, it is a decision your governments took.

Because people have had enotgh tax rises. We were elected by the people

and we should be trusted by our residents. All a referendum if you

want to put up your Council tax. `` want to put up your Council tax. ``

call. There is a debt that will be with us through the next decade or

more, such as the huge debt we are struggling with, and it means we're

going to have to make cuts to public spending. There is no way around it.

Hang on a second. Let talk `bout necessity. You are the one who

famously told a group of Americans famously told a group of Amdricans

that the conservative government would make cuts that Margaret

would make cuts that Margardt Thatcher could only have dreamt of.

Thatcher could only have drdamt of. Did that include cuts to the Fire

Did that include cuts to thd Fire Service? I said we were having to

Service? I said we were havhng to make cuts as a result of the

make cuts as a result of thd deficits. That is a direct quote.

make cuts as a result of the deficits. That is a direct puote. He

did not say to them that it was cuts on the Margaret `` Margaret Thatcher

would have only dreamt of? I on the Margaret `` Margaret Thatcher

would have only dreamt of? H did say would have only dreamt of? H did say

that. It is a result of the deficit and debt that we inherited from the

Labour government. Cuts that are much greater than Margaret Thatcher.

What we have had to inherit his catastrophic by comparison. Your

message is about standing up for the little guy and who cannot afford

fire engines... There are choices. They could be cuts to Trident, which

has no impact on the benefit of life for people in this country, but they

are choosing to put the cuts and to rescue authorities to have ` job to

rescue authorities to have a job to protect the lives. We have to take a

look at the other political Evans and there are plenty. Here they are

in 60 seconds. `` Evans will stop `` Evans. A lack of staff could mean

more violence at Maidstone prison, says an independent report, after

serious disturbance at the jail last November. The government cl`ims

staffing levels are appropriate but staffing levels are approprhate but

the prison officers Association disagrees. We do not feel we

the prison officers Association disagrees. We do not feel wd have

got the right supports to be disagrees. We do not feel we have

got the right supports to bd able disagrees. We do not feel wd have

got the right supports to be able to got the right supports to bd able to

do our job. Nigel Farage could got the right supports to be able to

do our job. Nigel Farage could be facing a fine because he had to

declare the rights to use this office. I have not declared expenses

for this office. Surrey County Council was challenged the Commons

Council because `` in the Commons because... They said that they had

not risen since 2010. Footb`ll fever. A council will play the

every hour until England exit the every hour until England exit the

World Cup. Residents do not think it will guarantee me license. Why not

try it every ten minutes? `` new lessons. Time for a quick thought.

How much should chief executives of councils are in? More than the Prime

Minister? I do not think so, but I have to say there there is a

Minister? I do not think so, but I have to say there there is ` case

for performance related pay. I don't believe in performance related pay.

But there has to be a balance. The Council leader is on significant way

(your allowance, and that is not the Chief Executive. My allowance of

?39,000. Thank you very much. Ray to have you both with us. That is it

from the south east `` great to have There are big changes afoot

in the EU following last month's European elections,

not least who'll get the top job But

behind the scenes the parties have also been jockeying for position as

they try to form the big groups that And UKIP seems to have been

struggling to keep its influence Here's Adam to explain

how it all works. If you want your party to be a big

cheese in the European Parliament, you need to form a political group.

By doing this, the party gets more money, more positions on committees

and even more speaking rights in the chamber. But the parliament's rules

are strict. And to form a group you need a group of 25 MPs from at least

seven different countries. For UKIP, the number of MEPs will not be a

problem because they already have 24 of their own, but the different

nationalities are more of a challenge. Nigel Farage was not

helped by the Tories stealing - stealing his former Danish and

Finnish allies, and the pen pinching his Italian charms. Nigel needs a

new charm and fast. He has already signed up Lithuania's order and

justice, a free citizen from Prague, and the Dutchman from the reformed

political party. The big signing was the 17 members of the Italian Beppe

Griego's 5-star movement, but it leaves UKIP short of two more

international powers, and with the clock ticking, it looks like his

hopes resting on the Swedish Democrats and the Polish new right

Congress. They both make their decisions next week.

What is the latest? UKIP have enough MEPs with their pals, but they need

seven countries, as I understand it. They are not there yet. They are

wrapped five countries and need another two. UKIP are being quite

buoyant and say they will be meeting MEPs from five countries next week

and are pretty confident they will get those countries, but as Adam was

saying, the problem UKIP have had is that the Conservatives have nicked

two of the parties. That is why they have been struggling, but they say

they are confident they will do it. Meanwhile, the Tories new best

friends are the German Eurosceptic party, which has put Mrs Merkel s

party, which has put Mrs Merkel's nose out of joint, but we don't

quite know whether she really cares or not. I think Cameron has played

his hand badly since he committed to pulling out of the EBP. And he

should be in there with Angela Merkel and if he needs to make a

major renegotiation, he needs to have the Germans onside. Instead

there is a breakaway party and its like supporting UKIP. His party are

supporting her worst enemy. It certainly causing him a lot of

problems, and undermines his negotiating position, but isn't

there an honesty that the centre-right group is explicitly

Federalist, and the Tories are anything but, so they came out, and

Labour are in the Socialist group, which is explicitly Federalist, and

they are not Federalist either. If you want support and influence in

Europe, you have to trade, and he hasn't done this well. The whole

business with who will be the next president, he needs Angela Merkel's

support. Without that, it won't happen. He should have been trading

behind-the-scenes, but he has exposed himself in public, and if he

doesn't win it looks uncertain, and he will be in a position where he

has to go back to his own party and say they are not getting anywhere.

That is dangerous and takes us closer to the Exeter, which I don't

think would want. The danger for Mr Cameron is if it is the president of

the commission, he will save you cannot stop a federalist becoming

head of the European commission, what chance do you have of

repatriating lots of powers back to London. There are lots of Tory MPs

dying to make the argument. My hunch is that he won't make it. There are

too many countries opposed to his presidency and even the country

notionally in favour of it, Germany, is failing in youth -- enthusiasm.

Angela Merkel cannot be seen to give in to the Brits this. Her own side

once it as well, though some reason the German media says it. When she

tried to reach out and said to look at the other candidates, she got

such abuse on the right wing press from her own country and party she

had to retreat. Janan is right that there is opposition to Juncker, but

as long as Cameron turns it into an argument about Britain and Europe,

he will strengthen the hand of Juncker. Angela Merkel thinks

Juncker is inappropriate. She did not like the process, which was a

power grab by the European Parliament, but when David Cameron

went to the council and said that if I don't get my way, we could leave

the EU, that led to the backlash, most significantly from the SPD in

Germany. As Tony Blair says, if only David Cameron had made the argument

that Juncker is bad for Europe, then he would have found his natural

allies would have felt more comfortable following behind. Enough

Europe. I want to show you a picture. See what you think of this.

When I saw that picture, I thought it was so ludicrous that it had to

have been photo shop. Discuss. He is holding it with a certain disdain,

looking a bit hangdog. A disastrous picture for Ed Miliband. His

strength is authenticity, sincerity and cleverness. And he blows all of

that. He was the one who took on Murdoch, very bravely and

dangerously, and one, really. Now there he is supporting Murdoch's

son. It's a big mistake, not just in Liverpool, where obviously they are

particularly incensed. And then he apologises. Sort of apologises and

understands why Liverpool feels upset. But it is a fundamental error

and I hope he learns from this, that he must absolutely stay true to

himself. That's all he's got going for him. Who do we blame? His

advisers or himself? In the end himself. Nobody forced him to do it.

On this one, he called it wrong. It's a sign of the rather the bridal

state of the Labour Party is that his candidates were vocal in

attacking him doing this. It's a sign of how readable Ed Miliband is

at Parliamentary level. I don't think you should have apologised.

The mistake he made was associating himself with that newspaper. The

mistake was the prior three years when he went too far as portraying

the Murdoch empire beyond the pale. He made a case against phone hacking

and offences in that regard without going as far as he did with the

rhetoric. To do that, and then pose with the Sun newspaper, the

juxtaposition is what did for him, not the mere fact of posing with it.

Maybe he did not know what he was doing because we were told he

doesn't read the British newspapers. It was football, and he

has posed with the Sun newspaper before. Mr Cameron and Mr Clegg

posed as well. But with the Sun newspaper and football, you tread

carefully. That was the mistake. newspaper and football, you tread

carefully. That was the mistake You get the impression from the picture

that he looks so uncomfortable that you wonder whether there was a full

process of consultation that went on within his media operation, within

his political operation. Was he fully aware of what would happen

question what he looks so incredibly uncomfortable. But at the end of the

day, leaders have to take responsibility. It is cultural as

well. That picture says, I am down there with the football blokes and

you think, you are not. That is not what people will vote for. Be

yourself and don't pretend to be something else because it never

works. But the polls suggest that the British voters don't yet see Ed

Miliband as prime ministerial. The worst thing you can then do is get

involved in stunts that are more likely to reinforce that idea than

counter it. There was a precedent for it in the last parliament which

was Gordon Brown's attempts to feign a populist touch. He did it by

telling the contents of his iPod. The Arctic monkeys. It always jarred

because he was trying too hard. Not uniquely guilty of, Ed Miliband,

because he was trying too hard. Not uniquely guilty of, Ed Miliband all

uniquely guilty of, Ed Miliband, all the other leaders have done it. At

the moment he more vulnerable. Yes, and he is less popular than his

party. Labour has quite a popular brand, in a resilient way, in a way

they don't with the Tories, yet their leader is a personal problem.

The pressure is on him to do stunts like this. Will there be a shadow

cabinet reshuffle? Yes, we have to get the cabinet reshuffle out of the

way first, and that might come next week, maybe by the time of the

summer recess, but the first thing that the prime Minister do is work

out who is the UK candidate for the European Commissioner. Is it not the

case probably that Ed Balls is becoming semi-detached from the Ed

Miliband project? I don't think entirely. Nothing gets agreed

without both of the end are green. Ed Balls is controversial. He has

great pluses and minuses and is a big figure. Labour doesn't have that

many big figures. It's quite hard to think who would be a heavy hitter as

a possible Chancellor. He is a convincing chancellor to the future,

Love him. He has the heft -- love him or hate him. Any possibility Ed

Balls could be moved as shadow chancellor? The timing is convenient

because the Scottish referendum ends in the autumn and Alistair Darling

becomes a free man, win or lose I don't think Ed Balls will be removed

because moving him would be an admission that everything the Labour

Party said about the economy to the preceding four years has been a

mistake. And you can't do that nine months before a general election.

You invite ridicule. But relations between Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are

not great at the moment. The Ed Miliband team are very, very

suspicious of this new love in between Ed Balls and Peter

Mandelson. Mandelson likes to say that he spotted the Ed Balls talents

in the original place and appointed him to the Gordon Brown team after

the disaster of 1992. But things obviously went awry, and now Ed

Balls and Peter Mandelson Avenue Rappaport, and that is with enormous

suspicion -- they have a new Rappaport. With good reason because

it's about policy. It's about the attitude towards business. Should

they be out there saying they will get the tax dodgers, Starbucks,

Vodafone, are we going to take on business in a big way? In a way that

Ed Miliband has quite bravely said. On the other hand, Ed Balls and

Peter Mandelson are saying, hang on, we only won in 1997 by being

business friendly. Sorry to rush you. We are running out of time

The Daily Politics will be back every day this week at midday,

and I'll be back here next Sunday when I'll be joined

by the shadow work and pensions secretary Rachel Reeves.Remember

if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

Magnificent. The power base of medieval England.

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You get a sense of the people who made the palaces.

as I unlock the secrets of Britain's great palaces.