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It's Sunday Morning, and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
Labour attacks Conservative plans for social care and to means-test | :00:41. | :00:42. | |
So can Jeremy Corbyn eat into the Tory lead | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
Theresa May says her party's manifesto is all about fairness. | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
We'll be speaking to a Conservative cabinet minister about the plans. | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
The polls have always shown healthy leads for the Conservatives. | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
But, now we've seen the manifestos, is Labour narrowing the gap? | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
And in the south-east: It's high on voters' list of priorities - | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
but with the NHS out of shape here, what are the parties prescribing? | :01:06. | :01:20. | |
And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
panel in the business: Sam Coates, Isabel Oakeshott | :01:24. | :01:25. | |
and Steve Richards - they'll be tweeting throughout | :01:26. | :01:26. | |
the programme, and you can get involved by using | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn says pensioners will be up to ?330 a year | :01:30. | :01:37. | |
worse off under plans outlined in the Conservative manifesto. | :01:38. | :01:49. | |
The Work Pensions Secretary Damian Green has said his party will not | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
rethink their plans to fund social care in England. Under the plans in | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
the Conservative manifesto, nobody with assets of less than ?100,000, | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
would have to pay for care. Labour has attacked the proposal, and John | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
McDonnell, Labour's Shadow Chancellor, said this morning that | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
there needs to be more cross-party consensus. | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
That's why we supported Dilnot, but we also supported | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
Because we've got to have something sustainable over generations, | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
so that's why we've said to the Conservative Party, | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
Let's go back to that cross-party approach that actually | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
I just feel we've all been let down by what's come | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
Sam, is Labour beginning to get their argument across? What we had | :02:32. | :02:42. | |
last week was bluntly what felt like not very Lynton Crosby approved | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
Conservative manifesto. What I mean by that is that it looks like there | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
are things that will cause political difficulties for the party over this | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
campaign. I've been talking to MPs and ministers who acknowledge that | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
the social care plan is coming up on the doorstep. It has cut through | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
very quickly, and it is worrying and deterring some voters. Not just | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
pensioners, that people who are looking to inherit in the future. | :03:10. | :03:20. | |
They are all asking how much they could lose that they wouldn't have | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
lost before. A difficult question for the party to answer, given that | :03:24. | :03:25. | |
they don't want to give too much away now. Was this a mistake, or a | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
sign of the Conservatives' confidence? It has the hallmarks of | :03:32. | :03:38. | |
something that has been cobbled together in a very unnaturally short | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
time frame for putting a manifesto together. We have had mixed messages | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
from the Tory MPs who have been out on the airwaves this morning as to | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
whether they will consult on it whether it is just a starting point. | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
That said, there is still three weeks to go, and most of the Tory | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
party this morning feel this is a little light turbulence rather than | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
anything that leaves the destination of victory in doubt. It it flips the | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
normal politics. The Tories are going to make people who have a | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
reasonable amount of assets pay for their social care. What is wrong | :04:14. | :04:20. | |
with that? First, total credit for them for not pretending that all | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
this can be done by magic, which is what normally happens in an | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
election. The party will say, we will review this for the 95th time | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
in the following Parliament, so they have no mandate to do anything and | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
so do not do anything. It is courageous to do it. It is | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
electorally risky, for the reasons that you suggest, that they pass the | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
target their own natural supporter. And there is a sense that this is | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
rushed through, in the frenzy to get it done in time. I think the ending | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
of the pooling of risk and putting the entire burden on in inverted | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
commas the victim, because you cannot insure Fritz, is against the | :05:05. | :05:12. | |
spirit of a lot of the rest of the manifesto, and will give them huge | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
problems if they try to implement it in the next Parliament. Let's have a | :05:16. | :05:24. | |
look at the polls. Nearly five weeks ago, on Tuesday the 18th of April, | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
Theresa May called the election. At that point, this was the median | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
average of the recent polls. The Conservatives had an 18 point lead | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
over Labour on 25%. Ukip and the Liberal Democrats were both on 18%. | :05:41. | :05:48. | |
A draft of Labour's manifesto was leaked to the press. In the | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
intervening weeks, support for the Conservatives and Labour had | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
increased, that it had decreased for the Lib Dems and Ukip. Last Tuesday | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
came the launch of the official Labour manifesto. By that time, | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
Labour support had gone up by another 2%. The Lib Dems and Ukip | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
had slipped back slightly. Later in the week came the manifestos from | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
the Lib Dems and the Conservatives. This morning, for more polls. This | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
is how the parties currently stand on average. Labour are now on 34%, | :06:23. | :06:30. | |
up 4% since the launch of their manifesto. The Conservatives are | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
down two points since last Tuesday. Ukip and the Lib Dems are both | :06:35. | :06:41. | |
unchanged on 8% and 5%. You can find this poll tracker on the BBC | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
website, see how it was calculated, and see the results of national | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
polls over the last two years. So Isabel, is this the Tories' wobbly | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
weekend or the start of the narrowing? This is still an | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
extremely healthy lead for the Tories. At the start of this | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
campaign, most commentators expected to things to happen. First, the Lib | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
Dems would have a significant surge. That hasn't happened. Second, Labour | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
would crash and plummet. Instead they are in the health of the low | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
30s. I wonder if that tells you something about the tribal nature of | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
the Labour vote, and the continuing problems with the Tory brand. I | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
would say that a lot of Tory MPs wouldn't be too unhappy if Labour's | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
result isn't quite as bad as has been anticipated. They don't want | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
Corbyn to go anywhere. If the latest polls were to be the result on June | :07:45. | :07:51. | |
the 8th, Mr Corbyn may not be in a rush to go anywhere. I still think | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
it depends on the number of seats. If there is a landslide win, I | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
think, one way or another, he will not stay. If it is much narrower, he | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
has grounds for arguing he has done better than anticipated. The polls | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
are very interesting. People compare this with 83. In 83, the Tory lead | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
widened consistently throughout the campaign. There was the SDP - | :08:18. | :08:30. | |
Liberal Alliance doing well in the polls. Here, the Lib Dems don't seem | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
to be doing that. So the parallels with 83 don't really stack up. But | :08:34. | :08:35. | |
let's see what happens. Still early days for the a lot of people are | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
saying this is the result of the social care policy. We don't really | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
know that. How do you beat them? In the last week or so, there's been | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
the decision by some to hold their nose and vote Labour, who haven't | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
done so before. Probably the biggest thing in this election is how the | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
Right has reunited behind Theresa May. That figure for Ukip is | :08:57. | :09:03. | |
incredibly small. She has brought those Ukip voters behind her, and | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
that could be the decisive factor in many seats, rather than the Labour | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
share of the boat picking up a bit or down a bit, depending on how | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
turbulent the Tory manifesto makes it. Thank you for that. | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
We've finally got our hands on the manifestos of the two main | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
parties and, for once, voters can hardly complain that | :09:25. | :09:26. | |
So, just how big is the choice on offer to the public? | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
Since the Liberal Democrats and SNP have ruled out | :09:31. | :09:32. | |
coalitions after June 8th, Adam Fleming compares the Labour | :09:33. | :09:34. | |
Welcome to the BBC's election centre. | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
Four minutes from now, when Big Ben strikes 10.00, | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
we can legally reveal the contents of this, our exit poll. | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
18 days to go, and the BBC's election night studio | :09:46. | :09:47. | |
This is where David Dimbleby will sit, although there is no chair yet. | :09:48. | :09:57. | |
The parties' policies are now the finished product. | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
In Bradford, Jeremy Corbyn vowed a bigger state, | :10:01. | :10:03. | |
the end of austerity, no more tuition fees. | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
The Tory campaign, by contrast, is built on one word - fear. | :10:07. | :10:14. | |
Down the road in Halifax, Theresa May kept a promise to get | :10:15. | :10:22. | |
immigration down to the tens of thousands, and talked | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
of leadership and tough choices in uncertain times. | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
Strengthen my hand as I fight for Britain, and stand with me | :10:29. | :10:35. | |
And, with confidence in ourselves and a unity | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
of purpose in our country, let us go forward together. | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
Let's look at the Labour and Conservative | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
On tax, Labour would introduce a 50p rate for top earners. | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
The Conservatives ditched their triple lock, giving them | :10:58. | :11:21. | |
freedom to put up income tax and national insurance, | :11:22. | :11:23. | |
although they want to keep the overall tax burden the same. | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
Labour offered a major overhaul of the country's wiring, | :11:27. | :11:28. | |
with a pledge to renationalise infrastructure, like power, | :11:29. | :11:30. | |
The Conservatives said that would cost a fortune, | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
but provided few details for the cost of their policies. | :11:34. | :11:35. | |
Labour have simply become a shambles, and, as yesterday's | :11:36. | :11:37. | |
manifesto showed, their numbers simply do not add up. | :11:38. | :11:39. | |
What have they got planned for health and social care? | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
The Conservatives offered more cash for the NHS, | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
reaching an extra ?8 billion a year by the end of the parliament. | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
Labour promised an extra ?30 billion over the course of the same period, | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
plus free hospital parking and more pay for staff. | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
The Conservatives would increase the value of assets you could | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
protect from the cost of social care to ?100,000, but your home would be | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
added to the assessment of your wealth, | :12:10. | :12:11. | |
There was a focus on one group of voters in particular | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
Labour would keep the triple lock, which guarantees that pensions go up | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
The Tories would keep the increase in line | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
with inflation or earnings, a double lock. | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
The Conservatives would end of winter fuel payments | :12:31. | :12:32. | |
for the richest, although we don't know exactly who that would be, | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
This is a savage attack on vulnerable pensioners, | :12:37. | :12:44. | |
particularly those who are just about managing. | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
It is disgraceful, and we are calling upon the Conservative Party | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
When it comes to leaving the European Union, Labour say | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
they'd sweep away the government's negotiating strategy, | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
secure a better deal and straightaway guaranteed the rights | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
The Tories say a big majority would remove political uncertainty | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
Jeremy Vine's due here in two and a half weeks. | :13:12. | :13:23. | |
I'm joined now by David Gauke, who is Chief Secretary to the Treasury. | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
Welcome back to the programme. The Tories once promised a cap on social | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
care costs. Why have you abandoned that? We've looked at it, and there | :13:36. | :13:43. | |
are couple of proposals with the Dilnot proposal. Much of the benefit | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
would go to those inheriting larger estates. The second point was it was | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
hoped that a cap would stimulate the larger insurance products that would | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
fill the gap, but there is no sign that those products are emerging. | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
Without a cap, you will not get one. We have come forward with a new | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
proposal which we think is fairer, provide more money for social care, | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
which is very important and is one of the big issues we face as a | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
country. It is right that we face those big issues. Social care is | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
one, getting a good Brexit deal is another. This demonstrates that | :14:23. | :14:30. | |
Theresa May has an ambition to lead a government that addresses those | :14:31. | :14:32. | |
big long-term issues. Looking at social care. If you have assets, | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
including your home, of over ?100,000, you have to pay for all | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
your social care costs. Is that fair? It is right that for the | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
services that are provided to you, that that is paid out of your | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
assets, subject to two really important qualifications. First, you | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
shouldn't have your entire estate wiped out. At the moment, if you are | :14:58. | :15:04. | |
in residential care, it can be wiped out ?223,000. If you are in | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
domiciliary care, it can be out to ?23,000, plus you're domiciliary. | :15:10. | :15:16. | |
Nobody should be forced to sell their house in their lifetime if | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
they or their spouse needs long-term care. Again, we have protected that | :15:21. | :15:22. | |
in the proposals we set out. But the state will basically take a | :15:23. | :15:32. | |
chunk of your house when you die and they sell. In an essence it is a | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
stealth inheritance tax on everything above ?100,000. But we | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
have those two important protections. I am including that. It | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
is a stealth inheritance tax. We have to face up to the fact that | :15:46. | :15:49. | |
there are significant costs that we face as a country in terms of health | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
and social careful. Traditionally, politicians don't address those | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
issues, particularly during election campaigns. I think it is too Theresa | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
May's credit that we are being straightforward with the British | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
people and saying that we face this long-term challenge. Our manifesto | :16:08. | :16:10. | |
was about the big challenges that we face, one of which was | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
intergenerational fairness and one of which was delivering a strong | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
economy and making sure that we can do that. But in the end, someone is | :16:19. | :16:25. | |
going to have to pay for this. It is going to have to be a balance | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
between the general taxpayer and those receiving the services. We | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
think we have struck the right balance with this proposal. But it | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
is entirely on the individual. People watching this programme, if | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
they have a fair amount of assets, not massive, including the home, | :16:40. | :16:46. | |
they will need to pay for everything themselves until their assets are | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
reduced to ?100,000. It is not a balance, you're putting everything | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
on the original two individual. At the moment, for those in residential | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
care, they have to pay everything until 20 3000. -- everything on the | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
individual. But now they will face more. Those in individual care are | :17:07. | :17:09. | |
seeing their protection going up by four times as much, so that is | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
eliminating unfairness. Why should those in residential care be in a | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
worse position than those receiving domiciliary care? But as I say, that | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
money has to come from somewhere and we are sitting at a proper plan for | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
it. While also made the point that we are more likely to be able to | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
have a properly functioning social care market if we have a strong | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
economy, and to have a strong economy we need to deliver a good | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
deal on Brexit and I think Theresa May is capable of doing that. You | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
have said that before. But if you have a heart attack in old age, the | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
NHS will take care of you. If you have dementia, you now have to pay | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
for the care of yourself. Is that they are? It is already the case | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
that if you have long-term care costs come up as I say, if you are | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
in residential care you pay for all of it until the last ?23,000, but if | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
you are in domiciliary care, excluding your housing assets, but | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
all of your other assets get used up until you are down to ?23,000 a | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
year. And I think it is right at this point that a party that aspires | :18:15. | :18:21. | |
to run this country for the long-term, to address the long-term | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
challenges we have is a country, for us to be clear that we need to | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
deliver this. Because if it is not paid for it this way, if it goes and | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
falls on the general taxpayer, the people who feel hard pressed by the | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
amount of income tax and VAT they pay, frankly we have to say to them, | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
those taxes will go up if we do not address it. But they might go up | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
anyway. The average house price in your part of the country is just shy | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
of ?430,000, so if you told your own constituents that they might have to | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
spend ?300,000 of their assets on social care before the state steps | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
in to help...? As I said earlier, nobody will be forced to pay during | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
their lifetime. Nobody will be forced to sell their houses. We are | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
providing that protection because of the third premium. Which makes it a | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
kind of death tax, doesn't it? Which is what you use to rail against. | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
What it is people paying for the services they have paid out of their | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
assets. But with that very important protection that nobody is going to | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
be wiped out in the way that has happened up until now, down to the | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
last three years. But when Labour propose this, George Osborne called | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
it a death tax and you are now proposing a stealth death tax | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
inheritance tax. Labour's proposals were very different. It is the same | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
effect. Labour's were hitting everyone with an inheritance tax. We | :19:52. | :19:58. | |
are saying that there are -- that there is a state contribution but | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
the public receiving the services will have to pay for it out of | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
assets, which have grown substantially. And which they might | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
now lose to social care. But I would say that people in Hertfordshire pay | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
a lot in income tracks, national insurance and VAT, and this is my | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
bet is going to have to come from somewhere. Well, they are now going | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
to pay a lot of tax and pay for social care. Turning to immigration, | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
you promised to get net migration down to 100,020 ten. You failed. You | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
promised again in 2015 and you are feeling again. Why should voters | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
trust you a third time? It is very clear that only the Conservative | :20:39. | :20:42. | |
Party has an ambition to control immigration and to bring it down. An | :20:43. | :20:48. | |
ambition you have failed to deliver. There are, of course, factors that | :20:49. | :20:51. | |
come into play. For example a couple of years ago we were going through a | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
period when the UK was creating huge numbers of jobs but none of our | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
European neighbours were doing anything like it. Not surprisingly, | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
that feeds through into the immigration numbers that we see. But | :21:03. | :21:09. | |
it is right that we have that ambition because I do not believe it | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
is sustainable to have hundreds of thousands net migration, you're | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
after year after year, and only Theresa May of the Conservative | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
Party is willing to address that. It has gone from being a target to an | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
ambition, and I am pretty sure in a couple of years it will become an | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
untimed aspiration. Is net migration now higher or lower than when you | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
came to power in 2010? I think it is higher at the moment. Let's look at | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
the figures. And there they are. You are right, it is higher, so after | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
six years in power, promising to get it down to 100,000, it is higher. So | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
if that is an ambition and you have not succeeded. We have to accept | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
that there are a number of factors. It continues to be the case that the | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
UK economy is growing and creating a lot of jobs, which is undoubtedly | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
drawing people. But you made the promise on the basis that would not | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
happen? We are certainly outperforming other countries in a | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
way that we could not have predicted in 2010. That is one of the factors. | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
But if you look at a lot of the steps that we have taken over the | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
course of the last seven years, dealing with bogus students, for | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
example, tightening up a lot of the rules. You can say all that but it | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
has made no difference to the headline figure. Clearly it would | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
have gone up by much more and we not taken the steps. But as I say, we | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
cannot for ever, it seems to me, have net migration numbers in the | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
hundreds of thousands. If we get that good Brexit deal, one of the | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
things we can do is tighten up in terms of access here. You say that | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
but you have always had control of non-EU migration. You cannot blame | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
the EU for that. You control immigration from outside the EU. | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
Have you ever managed to get even that below 100,000? Well, no doubt | :23:01. | :23:07. | |
you will present the numbers now. You haven't. You have got down a bit | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
from 2010, I will give you that, but even non-EU migration is still a lot | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
more than 100000 and that is the thing you control. It is 164,000 on | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
the latest figures. There is no point in saying to the voters that | :23:23. | :23:25. | |
when we get control of the EU migration you will get it down when | :23:26. | :23:28. | |
the bit you have control over, you have failed to get that down into | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
the tens of thousands. The general trend has gone up. Non-EU migration | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
we have brought down over the last few years. Not by much, not by | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
anywhere near your 100,000 target. But we clearly have more tools | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
available to us, following Brexit. At this rate it will be around 2030 | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
before you get non-EU migration down to 100,000. We clearly have more | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
tools available to us and I return to the point I made. In the last six | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
or seven years, particularly the last four or five, we have seen the | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
UK jobs market growing substantially. It is extraordinary | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
how many more jobs we have. So you'll only promised the migration | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
target because you did not think you were going to run the economy well? | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
That is what you are telling me. I don't think anyone expected us to | :24:18. | :24:20. | |
create quite a number of jobs that we have done over the last six or | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
seven years. At the time when other European countries have not been. | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
George Osborne says your target is economically illiterate. I disagree | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
with George on that. He is my old boss but I disagree with him on that | :24:34. | :24:40. | |
point. And the reason I say that is looking at the economics and the | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
wider social impact, I don't think it is sustainable for us to have | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
hundreds of thousands, year after year after year. Let me ask you one | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
other thing because you are the chief secretary. Your promising that | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
spending on health will be ?8 billion higher in five use time than | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
it is now. How do you pay for that? From a strong economy, two years ago | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
we had a similar conversation because at that point we said that | :25:05. | :25:10. | |
we would increase spending by ?8 billion. And we are more than on | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
track to deliver it, because it is a priority area for us. Where will the | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
money come from? It will be a priority area for us. We will find | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
the money. So you have not been able to show us a revenue line where this | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
?8 billion will come from. We have a record of making promises to spend | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
more on the NHS and delivering. One thing I would say is that the only | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
way you can spend more money on the NHS is if you have a strong economy, | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
and the biggest risk... But that is true of anything. I am trying to | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
find out where the ?8 billion come from, where will it come from? Know | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
you were saying that perhaps you might increase taxes, ticking off | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
the lock, so people are right to be suspicious. But you will not tell us | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
where the ?8 billion will come from. Andrew, a strong economy is key to | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
delivering more NHS money. That does not tell us where the money is | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
coming from. The biggest risk to a strong economy would be a bad | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
Brexit, which Jeremy Corbyn would deliver. And we have a record of | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
putting more money into the NHS. I think that past performance we can | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
take forward. Thank you for joining us. | :26:21. | :26:22. | |
So, the Conservatives have been taking a bit of flak | :26:23. | :26:24. | |
But Conservative big guns have been out and about this morning taking | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
Here's Boris Johnson on ITV's Peston programme earlier today: | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
What we're trying to do is to address what I think | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
everybody, all serious demographers acknowledge will be the massive | :26:37. | :26:39. | |
problem of the cost of social care long-term. | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
This is a responsible, grown-up, conservative approach, | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
trying to deal with a long-term problem in a way that is equitable, | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
allows people to pass on a very substantial sum, | :26:51. | :26:52. | |
still, to their kids, and takes away the fear | :26:53. | :26:54. | |
Joining me now from Liverpool is Labour's Shadow Chief Secretary | :26:55. | :27:01. | |
Petered out, welcome to the programme. Let's start with social | :27:02. | :27:12. | |
care. The Tories are saying that if you have ?100,000 or more in assets, | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
you should pay for your own social care. What is wrong with that? Well, | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
I think the issue at the end of the day is the question of fairness. Is | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
it fair? And what we're trying to do is to get to a situation where we | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
have, for example, the Dilnot report, which identified that you | :27:31. | :27:36. | |
actually have cap on your spending on social care. We are trying to get | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
to a position where it is a reasonable and fair approach to | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
expenditure. But you will know that a lot of people, particularly in the | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
south of country, London and the south-east, and the adjacent areas | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
around it, they have benefited from huge house price inflation. They | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
have seen their homes go up in value, if and when they sell, they | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
are not taxed on that increase. Why should these people not pay for | :28:03. | :28:08. | |
their own social care if they have the assets to do so? They will be | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
paying for some of their social care but you cannot take social care and | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
health care separately. It has to be an integrated approach. So for | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
example if you do have dementia, you're more likely to be in an | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
elderly person's home for longer and you most probably have been in care | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
for a longer period of time. On the other hand, you might have, if you | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
have had a stroke, there may be continuing care needs paid for by | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
the NHS. So at the end of the date it is trying to get a reasonable | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
balance and just to pluck a figure of ?100,000 out of thin air is not | :28:40. | :28:48. | |
sensible. You will have heard me say about David Gold that the house | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
prices in his area, about 450,000 or so, not quite that, and that people | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
may have to spend quite a lot of that on social care to get down to | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
?100,000. But in your area, the average house price is only | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
?149,000, so your people would not have to pay anything like as much | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
before they hit the ?100,000 minimum. I hesitate to say that but | :29:13. | :29:18. | |
is that not almost a socialist approach to social care that if you | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
are in the affluent Home Counties with a big asset, you pay more, and | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
if you are in an area that is not so affluent and your house is not worth | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
very much, you pay a lot less. What is wrong with that principle? I | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
think the problem I am trying to get to is this issue about equity across | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
the piece. At the end of the day, what we want is a system whereby it | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
is capped at a particular level, and the Dilnot report, after much | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
examination, said we should have a cap on care costs at ?72,000. The | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
Conservatives decided to ditch that and come up with another policy | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
which by all accounts seems to be even more Draconian. At the end of | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
the day it is trying to get social care and an NHS care in a much more | :30:01. | :30:10. | |
fluid way. We had offered the Conservatives to have a bipartisan | :30:11. | :30:12. | |
approach to this. David just said that this is a long term. You do not | :30:13. | :30:17. | |
pick a figure out of thin air and use that as a long-term strategy. | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
The Conservatives are now saying they will increase health spending | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
over the next five years in real terms. You will increase health | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
spending. In what way is your approach to health spending better | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
than the Tories' now? We are contributing an extra 7.2 billion to | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
the NHS and social care over the next few years. But you just don't | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
put money into the NHS or social care. It has to be an integrated | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
approach to social and health care. What we've got is just more of the | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
same. What we don't want to do is just say, we ring-fenced an out for | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
here or there. What you have to do is try to get that... Let me ask you | :31:05. | :31:13. | |
again. In terms of the amount of resource that is going to be devoted | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
in the next five years, and resource does matter for the NHS, in what way | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
are your plans different now from the Conservative plans? The key is | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
how you use that resource. By just putting money in, you've got to say, | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
if we are going to put that money on, how do we use it? As somebody | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
who has worked in social care for 40 years, you have to have a different | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
approach to how you use that money. The money we are putting in, 7.7, | :31:44. | :31:49. | |
may be similar in cash terms to what the Tories claim they are putting | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
in, but it's not how much you put in per se, it is how you use it. You | :31:54. | :32:07. | |
are going to get rid of car parking charges in hospital, and you are | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
going to increase pay by taking the cap on pay off. So it doesn't | :32:11. | :32:12. | |
necessarily follow that the money, under your way of doing it, will | :32:13. | :32:15. | |
follow the front line. What you need in the NHS is a system that is | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
capable of dealing with the patience you have. What we have now is on at | :32:20. | :32:26. | |
five Asian of the NHS. Staff leaving, not being paid properly. So | :32:27. | :32:36. | |
pay and the NHS go hand in hand. Let's move onto another area of | :32:37. | :32:39. | |
policy where there is some confusion. Who speaks for the Labour | :32:40. | :32:45. | |
Party on nuclear weapons? Is it Emily Thornbury, or Nia Griffith, | :32:46. | :32:52. | |
defence spokesperson? The Labour manifesto. It is clear. We are | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
committed to the nuclear deterrent, and that is the definitive... Is it? | :32:57. | :33:07. | |
Emily Thornbury said that Trident could be scrapped in the defence | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
review you would have immediately after taking power. On LBC on Friday | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
night. She didn't, actually. I listened to that. What she actually | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
said is, as part of a Labour government coming in, a new | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
government, there is always a defence review. But not the concept | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
of Trident in its substance. She said there would be a review in | :33:32. | :33:38. | |
terms of, and this is in our manifesto. When you reduce | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
something, you review how it is operated. The review could scrap | :33:43. | :33:48. | |
Trident. It won't scrap Trident. The review is in the context of how you | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
protect it from cyber attacks. This will issue was seized upon that she | :33:54. | :33:59. | |
was saying that we would have another review of Trident or Labour | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
would ditch it. That is nonsense. You will have seen some reports that | :34:05. | :34:11. | |
MI5 opened a file on Jeremy Corbyn in the early 90s because of his | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
links to Irish republicanism. This has caused some people, his links to | :34:16. | :34:23. | |
the IRA and Sinn Fein, it has caused some concern. Could you just listen | :34:24. | :34:30. | |
to this clip and react. Do you condemn what the IRA did? I condemn | :34:31. | :34:37. | |
all bombing. But do you condemn what the IRA did? I condemn what was done | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
with the British Army as well as both sides as well. What happened in | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
Derry in 1972 was pretty devastating as well. Do you distinguish between | :34:47. | :34:53. | |
state forces, what the British Army did and the IRA? Well, in a sense, | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
the treatment of IRA prisoners which made them into virtual political | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
prisoners suggested that the British government and the state saw some | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
kind of almost equivalent in it. My point is that the whole violence if | :35:10. | :35:16. | |
you was terrible, was appalling, and came out of a process that had been | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
allowed to fester in Northern Ireland for a very long time. That | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
was from about two years ago. Can you explain why the Leader of the | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
Labour Party, Her Majesty 's opposition, the man who would be our | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
next Prime Minister, finds it so hard to condemn IRA arming? I think | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
it has to be within the context that Jeremy Corbyn for many years trying | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
to move the peace protest... Process along. So why wouldn't you condemn | :35:47. | :35:55. | |
IRA bombing? Again, that was an issue, a traumatic event in Irish - | :35:56. | :36:02. | |
British relations that went on for 30 years. It is a complicated | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
matter. Bombing is not that complicated. If you are a man of | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
peace, surely you would condemn the bomb and the bullet? Let me say | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
this, I condemn the bomb and the bullet. Why can't your leader? You | :36:18. | :36:23. | |
would have to ask Jeremy Corbyn, but that is in the context of what he | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
was trying to do over a 25 year period to move the priest process | :36:29. | :36:30. | |
along. Thank you for joining us. It's just gone 11.35, | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :36:34. | :36:35. | |
in Scotland and Wales. I'm Natalie Graham and this | :36:36. | :36:45. | |
is the Sunday Politics This morning - in the second | :36:46. | :36:47. | |
of our general election programmes focusing on key issues affecting | :36:48. | :36:56. | |
this region, we'll be looking Do any of the parties | :36:57. | :36:58. | |
have the right medicine to make And I'll be in Tonbridge in Kent, | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
where kids are slugging it out on the football field on this | :37:03. | :37:09. | |
Sunnny Sunday morning. We'll be talking education - | :37:10. | :37:11. | |
what policies will score politicians Lots to talk about in | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
the next 20 minutes. the Labour candidate in Hastings | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
and Rye, Caroline Ansell, the Conservative Candidate for | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
Eastbourne and Stephen Priestley, who's standing for UKIP | :37:24. | :37:25. | |
in Folkestone and Hythe. We're going to start with | :37:26. | :37:27. | |
the promises made by the parties Last week the three biggest parties | :37:28. | :37:34. | |
set out their intentions As start with you, Caroline Ansell | :37:35. | :37:44. | |
because you are defending a very small majority against the Lib Dems. | :37:45. | :37:52. | |
The seat has a high number of elderly people and a relatively high | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
property price. Your heart must some use of the manifesto, ?100,000 after | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
the social care plan changes does not leave you much in the south of | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
England. When it was released the reaction I was having on the | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
doorstep was this was bald. The portal manifesto was bold, brave and | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
had a degree of honesty -- the manifesto was.... -- the manifesto | :38:19. | :38:29. | |
was.... We have been the party of Government and potentially will be | :38:30. | :38:31. | |
agents game so there must be within the manifesto real action and real | :38:32. | :38:40. | |
change. When they say bold do they like it? Most people, not just the | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
elderly, their children and grandchildren who were hoping to | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
benefit from property prices are very worried. Very often people | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
reference their children and grandchildren and do not want them | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
to be paying the cost for provision made now that cannot be delivered or | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
afforded and that has been something that has often been said on the | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
doorstep. People recognise it is bold and recognised the merit in | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
very important detail to come and very important detail to come and | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
that is where people have most questions that if they do have | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
concerns, around the detail. Do you think, I mean, it is..., do | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
you think Theresa May has been a declaration she is so far I have in | :39:26. | :39:32. | |
the polls she can afford to lose if you vote here because she will make | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
gains elsewhere in the country? I do not think so but I think there is a | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
level of honesty around the very real challenges we will face should | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
we be the party of Government once more and that is right has got to be | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
fair. What I'm most welcome in the manifesto after campaigning very | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
hard for, was the real lift in school funding. | :39:59. | :40:00. | |
The Labour manifesto will have gone down very well with traditional | :40:01. | :40:07. | |
Labour voters and may attract a lot of Green voters because it has quite | :40:08. | :40:10. | |
a lot in common with their policies but in order to get into Government | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
you must win back in places like Kent where you had seats under Tony | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
Blair. How will your manifesto attract those people who have gone | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
over to the Tories and Ukip? Because it appeals to a majority of people. | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
What taxation plans, 95% of people What taxation plans, 95% of people | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
will not be affected, and the spending commitments we made our | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
funded and properly set out and the taxation for those will not affect | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
most people saw just that basic message is important. | :40:45. | :40:46. | |
There is some doubt about whether you will raise the amount of tax you | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
say you will but on the issue of attracting voters in seats in | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
Rochester, said that where there used to be Labour MP and just the | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
basic of getting back into Government means you need to win | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
there. How was the issue of not putting a limit on immigration when | :41:05. | :41:10. | |
back Ukip voters? Because it has other policies around things like | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
the NHS and education, housing and so on and those kind of very | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
positive and radical policy that will win people over and issues like | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
immigration, as I say, artificial targets simply will not work and I | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
think you can get those arguments across but what people really care | :41:29. | :41:35. | |
about is things like housing, NHS, education and social care. | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
We will talk about those in the moment. Stephen Priestley, Ukip has | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
not published the manifesto get unduly dubs said he was caught out | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
slightly by the snap election -- he said he was caught out. How can we | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
take you to get to be asleep when you prove to be scrambling around | :41:55. | :42:01. | |
for policies full? Some of the -- take Ukip seriously. I would say | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
some of the UK policies such as grammar schools have now been taken | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
by the Tories. They rather like that one and that has always been a Ukip | :42:12. | :42:17. | |
policy. We have always been a very committed to the NHS and as someone | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
who works in the NHS myself and have done so for 20 years, the people in | :42:23. | :42:31. | |
Kent really face a disadvantage because there is a disparity without | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
wanting to become too technical, there is a formula which calculates | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
the GP provision which they get from the clinical commissioning groups. | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
Now, my point is that there are parts of Kent which get much less | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
funding than other more affluent parts of Kent, in spite of the fact | :42:50. | :42:56. | |
they are socially at a much greater disadvantage. I would say, are the | :42:57. | :43:01. | |
people in the socially deprived parts of Kent worth less than those | :43:02. | :43:06. | |
in the more affluent parts? And will we see that in the manifesto orders | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
that just your policy? We will see a commitment to NHS. You have neatly | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
led us into it. Now, cradle to grave care | :43:18. | :43:19. | |
was the founding idea But many of our hospitals and | :43:20. | :43:21. | |
GP surgeries are struggling So with the NHS high on the list | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
of priorities for voters, what would the | :43:26. | :43:29. | |
different parties prescribe? Bhavani Vadde has been taking a look | :43:30. | :43:30. | |
in the most marginal constituency in the south-east - | :43:31. | :43:33. | |
Brighton Kemptown. And this is the country's | :43:34. | :43:35. | |
first eco gym. Read more they work out the more | :43:36. | :43:37. | |
electricity they generate, And this is the country's | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
first eco gym. Read more they work out the more | :43:43. | :43:44. | |
electricity they generate, which offsets the energy costs | :43:45. | :43:46. | |
for this business. If only NHS funding issues | :43:47. | :43:48. | |
for the area could be solved so easily, because this gym | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
is in Brighton, where the health The Brighton and Sussex University | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
Hospital trust is in special measures and it also ended | :43:57. | :44:07. | |
the financial year nearly And Brighton and Hove CCG, | :44:08. | :44:09. | |
the organisation that plans and funds community health services | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
such as GPs, has been I do not think the problems | :44:16. | :44:18. | |
are unique to Brighton. In some ways Brighton is a microcosm | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
for the problems faced by the NHS as a whole because the problems | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
are right across the system and on almost every single aspect | :44:26. | :44:27. | |
of health and social care. This gym happens to be in the heart | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
of Brighton Kemptown, the most marginal constituency | :44:33. | :44:34. | |
in the south-east, where the Conservatives won with a slim | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
majority of 690 votes in 2015. So, could pledges on the NHS be | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
a deciding factor on who wins This election is going to be | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
the making or breaking of the NHS. We need to stop focusing so much | :44:50. | :44:58. | |
on Brexit I think about the loss I have a son who has a neuromuscular | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
condition which is a life limiting and we are seeing a lot | :45:04. | :45:14. | |
of different health professionals. I think it's under threat | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
because of the funding crisis. What do the political hopefuls | :45:18. | :45:24. | |
of Brighton Kemptown propose as solutions to issues with the NHS, | :45:25. | :45:26. | |
here and across the south-east? Labour's candidate is | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
Lloyd Russell-Moyle. His party has pledged over | :45:30. | :45:31. | |
?30 billion in extra funding for the NHS over the next | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
parliament, by increasing income What that will do is it | :45:38. | :45:39. | |
will make the hospital trusts have an investment so they can start | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
to perform well. They will be able to start | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
to recruit staff, which they have not been able to do as efficiently | :45:50. | :45:52. | |
as we would like them to do. It will mean people who are patient | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
can see doctors and a consultant within 18 week rather | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
than sometimes the 12 month The Liberal Democrats | :46:02. | :46:04. | |
are represented by Emily Tester, the party wants to put a penny | :46:05. | :46:07. | |
in the pound on income tax to raise ?6 billion additional revenue that | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
will be ring fenced for the NHS In this area it will bring a lot | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
of money, 20 million for Brighton and Hove in total, | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
5 million for mental health spending as well, | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
which is an area which is Having that boost in funding | :46:25. | :46:28. | |
will really help provide the services we need because this | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
is an area where the NHS The Conservative candidate | :46:33. | :46:35. | |
for Brighton Kemptown, Simon Kirby, was not available for interview, | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
so we spoke to Henry Smith, who is standing in Crawley, | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
where the hospital trust is the only one in the region has | :46:45. | :46:47. | |
been rated as good. The Conservative Party has promised | :46:48. | :46:49. | |
to increase NHS spending by a minimum of ?8 billion in real | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
terms over the next five years. Here in Crawley we are already | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
seeing the results of the increased We've seen emergency services | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
returning to Crawley Hospital, an out of hours service available | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
24/7. Of course we have to recognise | :47:09. | :47:09. | |
a few in the south-east Of course we have to recognise | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
here in the south-east that is a growing population, | :47:15. | :47:16. | |
growing need, elderly population and that is why the extra investment | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
announced by Theresa May into the NHS is going | :47:21. | :47:23. | |
to be very necessary. The Greens pulled out of the contest | :47:24. | :47:25. | |
in Brighton Kemptown, The party has not published | :47:26. | :47:27. | |
its manifesto yet, but has pledged to rollback privatisation and close | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
the NHS spending gap. That's a promise all | :47:33. | :47:34. | |
the main parties have made. Here's a full list of all | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
the candidates standing We did not hear from Ukip there but | :47:38. | :47:53. | |
Stephen Priestley is in the studio. He gave us a specific example but in | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
general terms what is Ukip solution to the problems facing the NHS? It | :47:59. | :48:06. | |
is important we make things far better was greater levels of | :48:07. | :48:14. | |
investment and focus on training to ensure we are bringing back the | :48:15. | :48:22. | |
nurse programme, we want to try to simplify the processes that some of | :48:23. | :48:25. | |
the health professionals have to go through today have more time with | :48:26. | :48:31. | |
patients, reduce bureaucracy as well. These are some key areas. | :48:32. | :48:38. | |
We have not had your manifesto yet. Caroline Ansell, your manifesto you | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
let 100 -- 140,000 EU nationals in let 100 -- 140,000 EU nationals in | :48:45. | :48:50. | |
the NHS stay and carry on. That -- is that go far enough to reassure | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
them because we need them. We do need them and we have made that a | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
top priority. Those negotiations will start 11 days after the | :49:00. | :49:06. | |
election. What I was struck by their in the felled by a man who said we | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
need to stop focusing on Brexit, but Brexit will just determine how able | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
we are to provide the necessarily funding for the NHS and I am pleased | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
we have committed to increased funding. | :49:22. | :49:22. | |
But other parties like Peter's and But other parties like Peter's and | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
guarantee the rights of those a new national. It is part of the | :49:27. | :49:33. | |
EU nationals. It is important to EU nationals. It is important to | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
rise up eight new generation of nurses, doctors and medical | :49:38. | :49:42. | |
professionals. -- create a new generation of nurses. Peter, you are | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
offering more money than the offering more money than the | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
Conservatives but according to the independent health foundation there | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
will still be a ?7 black hole in the NHS by 2021. It is just not enough. | :49:56. | :50:06. | |
-- ?7 billion black hole. Even if you fund it... There are other | :50:07. | :50:13. | |
things to be done, in particular the relationship between the NHS and | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
adult social care and integrating both of them better. At the moment | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
adult social care has been cut back which put additional burdens on the | :50:23. | :50:27. | |
NHS and they both have to be brought together more closely. Bringing | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
those too much more closely together will make the whole thing a run more | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
efficiently for all the people in hospitals and requiring care at | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
home. I could give one example from local authorities about how does not | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
work at the moment but that would help lot too. | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
Health is a huge subject, and I'm well aware we've barely | :50:51. | :50:52. | |
And what type of schools should we create over the next five years? | :50:53. | :51:00. | |
We're going to hear again from Bhavani, she's in Tonbridge | :51:01. | :51:02. | |
Well, where better to find schoolchildren and burdens | :51:03. | :51:05. | |
on a sunny Sunday morning but at a football match? | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
I am at a tournament in Tunbridge to talk about education. | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
Some might say it has been used as a political football. | :51:13. | :51:14. | |
This tournament is taking place in Kent which has the highest number | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
The blue and purple political teams want to see more grammars, | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
while Labour, Lib Dems and the Greens are against | :51:23. | :51:24. | |
To kick off this debate we have joining us a head teacher, | :51:25. | :51:31. | |
You are a headteacher of a wide ability school and you represent | :51:32. | :51:40. | |
What is your opinion on the offer and grammer schools from parties? | :51:41. | :51:47. | |
I think the discussion about grammar schools within this debate | :51:48. | :51:49. | |
is a bit of a distraction from the really key issues | :51:50. | :51:52. | |
I think grammar skills and do a great job for the children | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
they serve, but so do nonselective schools and comprehensive schools | :51:57. | :51:58. | |
across the country and I think if we are going to have a really | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
great education system in the UK it is about every school | :52:03. | :52:04. | |
being great, every child having the opportunity to succeed | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
and move and to achieve what they want to achieve. | :52:09. | :52:15. | |
And that will only happen when we get all our schools properly funded | :52:16. | :52:18. | |
This is your view despite being the former head of a grammar school | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
Yeah, I have been the head of a grammar school and we did | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
a great job for our children as well and I believe we are doing | :52:28. | :52:30. | |
a good job for the school I am currently head of. | :52:31. | :52:33. | |
But I think it goes beyond that, it is that every | :52:34. | :52:35. | |
You have a child at a grammar school here in Kent and you received | :52:36. | :52:43. | |
I'm very much supportive of what they do. | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
It gives them a great opportunity, the children, | :52:50. | :52:51. | |
But, the point Sally made, there are a lot of great schools out | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
there, of whatever standard, lots of great teachers out | :52:56. | :52:57. | |
there and they all need to be supported throughout. | :52:58. | :52:59. | |
But certainly I would be supportive of more grammar schools | :53:00. | :53:02. | |
As I say, to give children the opportunity within the education. | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
Tell me about the type of school you go to and what do | :53:07. | :53:13. | |
you think about the grammar schools education system? | :53:14. | :53:15. | |
I go to a grammar in Tunbridge Wells, a boys grammar. | :53:16. | :53:17. | |
And I think the grammar system is a great way to succeed | :53:18. | :53:20. | |
You would like to see more grammar schools as well. | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
We are now going to talk about funding. | :53:26. | :53:28. | |
Money that the schools get is another contentious issue | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
here in the south-east, and many patents and Conservative | :53:32. | :53:33. | |
MPs in the region have been campaigning against the national | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
funding formula introduced in December, and claim many schools | :53:38. | :53:39. | |
Well, in their manifestos Labour, the Conservatives and the Lib Dems | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
have promised more money for the schools budget so I am just | :53:45. | :53:46. | |
Are you optimistic about the future as a result | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
Really pleased to hear the parties are talking about putting more | :53:52. | :53:58. | |
I think we must not lose sight of the National Fair Funding Formula | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
because schools have not been fairly funded for many years. | :54:04. | :54:06. | |
There has been a huge disparity in the amount of money per child | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
that schools received across the country. | :54:10. | :54:10. | |
Kent, under the National funding formula would actually | :54:11. | :54:12. | |
be an overall gainer, but there will be schools will lose, | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
and I think we need to see more money in the pot, | :54:17. | :54:19. | |
we need to see a levelling, but we need to see a levelling up, | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
Thank you to all of you for joining us today. | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
Now time to hand back to the studio to you, Natalie. | :54:27. | :54:34. | |
Caroline Ansell, you worked as a teacher, we heard from the head | :54:35. | :54:40. | |
teacher who said grammar schools are a that the -- massive distraction. | :54:41. | :54:47. | |
Now selective education is in your manifesto are you convinced? I will | :54:48. | :54:53. | |
take more convincing. It will be subject to close scrutiny and debate | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
going into the next Parliament should we be the party of | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
Government. It is popular with parents and | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
pupils. It seemed to be popular with the parent 's grammar school | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
children but that is a much bigger picture here for us to look at and | :55:10. | :55:15. | |
that is every child and excellence for every school. | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
Peter, along with the Lib Dems and Green 's Labour pause grammar | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
schools and you call them the Conservative vanity project. If you | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
got into school the logical thing to do would be get rid of existing | :55:29. | :55:35. | |
ones, wouldn't it? I would prefer a universal comprehensive education | :55:36. | :55:38. | |
system grammar school simply do not work, low research has a short | :55:39. | :55:44. | |
overall in the areas, they have better results, this has not been | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
shown. It is a vanity project and would be damaging to education to | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
create more of them. For those parents with children and grammar | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
skills they do like them but for the other 80% they do not. | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
What about Conservative plans to change emissions policy so | :56:04. | :56:06. | |
middle-class families do not have an advantage when it comes to getting a | :56:07. | :56:13. | |
place in schools -- admissions policy. I still think you need is a | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
much better comprehensively planned education system, the way we move | :56:18. | :56:24. | |
towards academies and free schools and now grammar schools are just | :56:25. | :56:29. | |
means you are losing control of education and that needs to be | :56:30. | :56:32. | |
brought back again. I think that is innovation. Stephen | :56:33. | :56:39. | |
Priestley, you want a grammar school in every town and your leader says | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
he specifically wants to help working-class children. How would | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
you do that? Attempts in Kent are not good work. If I could talk about | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
the far greater emphasis needed on vocational training for 14 and 15 | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
Google especially. Not everyone academically minded and that needs | :57:00. | :57:06. | |
to be a broad spectrum of talent including musical and artistic | :57:07. | :57:13. | |
talent. In a sentence, Ukip wants to equip the future generations with | :57:14. | :57:18. | |
the vocational skills that are needed for carpentry, bricklaying | :57:19. | :57:21. | |
and all of these vital things we reduce the dependency on a very | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
skilled workforce coming in from abroad. Caroline, about funding, the | :57:28. | :57:35. | |
Government plans to change the formula, that is on hold because of | :57:36. | :57:42. | |
the election. I got a letter from a headteacher saying school funding is | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
under severe threat. Will that stop now you have announced Europe policy | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
to not let any school loos under this formula -- announced Europe | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
policy. That extra funding is so very welcome at what I hope the | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
promotion of that new funding will still come through because a piece | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
for we are severely disadvantaged by that formula. -- in Eastbourne. | :58:08. | :58:14. | |
There's just time for some of the other news you may have | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
missed in Sixty Seconds with Yetunde Yusuf. | :58:18. | :58:18. | |
The controversial landlord who banned what he called coloured | :58:19. | :58:21. | |
peoples from letting his properties, claiming | :58:22. | :58:22. | |
The equality and human rights commission has | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
applied for an injunction against Fergus Wilson, for his lettings | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
A reasonable man will say to me this is not racist, | :58:31. | :58:38. | |
And I think the Equalities Commission has not | :58:39. | :58:41. | |
Two councils in Kent have taken litter | :58:42. | :58:51. | |
wardens off the streets after a BBC investigation found that they were | :58:52. | :58:55. | |
being paid a bigger bonuses the more tickets they handed out. | :58:56. | :58:58. | |
Maidstone Borough Council were first and | :58:59. | :58:59. | |
then Ashford Borough Council said wardens working | :59:00. | :59:01. | |
And commuters using Southern rail are facing more | :59:02. | :59:05. | |
disruption this summer after the train drivers union Aslef | :59:06. | :59:07. | |
announced an overtime ban from the end of May. | :59:08. | :59:09. | |
The RMT union say they will also be striking. | :59:10. | :59:11. | |
It comes after talks over driver on the trains broke down. | :59:12. | :59:14. | |
Southern say they are dismayed by the decision. | :59:15. | :59:23. | |
Don't forget this programme is part of a series of shows | :59:24. | :59:26. | |
the Conservatives, Labour and UKIP in the studio. | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
We'll be hearing from all the major parties standing candidates | :59:31. | :59:32. | |
in the south-east on a range of issues leading up to June 8th. | :59:33. | :59:36. | |
So, for now, lets thank our guests today - Caroline Ansell, | :59:37. | :59:39. | |
cancelled. And rent to own is still our policy. Thank you very much, Tom | :59:40. | :59:40. | |
Brake. Andrew, back to you. So, two and half weeks | :59:41. | :59:47. | |
to go till polling day, let's take stock of the campaign | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
so far and look ahead Sam, Isabel and Steve | :59:51. | :59:52. | |
are with me again. Sam, Mrs May had made a great thing | :59:53. | :00:06. | |
about the just about managing. Not the poorest of the poor, but not | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
really affluent people, who are maybe OK but it's a bit of a | :00:11. | :00:17. | |
struggle. What is in the manifesto for them? There is something about | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
the high profile items in the manifesto. She said she wants to | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
help those just above the poorest level. But if you look at things | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
like the winter fuel allowance, which is going to be given only to | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
the poorest. If you look at free school meals for infants, those for | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
the poorest are going to be kept, but the rest will go. The social | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
care plan, those who are renting or in properties worth up to ?90,000, | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
they are going to be treated, but those in properties worth above | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
that, 250,000, for example, will have to pay. Which leads to the | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
question - what is being done for the just about managings? There is | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
something, the personal allowance that David Cameron promised in 2015, | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
that they are not making a big deal of that, because they cannot say by | :01:13. | :01:19. | |
how much. So you are looking in tax rises on the just about managings. | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
Where will the tax rises come from. We do not know, that there is the 40 | :01:27. | :01:35. | |
million pounds gap for the Tories to reach what they are pledging in | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
their manifesto. We do not know how that is going to be made up, more | :01:39. | :01:45. | |
tax, or more borrowing? So that is why the questions of the | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
implications of removing the tax lock are so potentially difficult | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
for Tory MPs. The Labour manifesto gives figures for the cost of | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
certain policies and where the revenue will come from. You can | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
argue about the figures, but at least we have the figures. The Tory | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
manifesto is opaque on these matters. That applies to both the | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
manifestos. Looking at the Labour manifesto on the way here this | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
morning, when you look at the section on care for the elderly, | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
they simply say, there are various ways in which the money for this can | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
be raised. They are specific on other things. They are, and we heard | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
John McDonnell this morning being very on that, and saying there is | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
not a single ? in Tory manifesto. I have only got to page 66. It is | :02:37. | :02:43. | |
quite broad brush and they are very open to challenge. For example, on | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
the detail of a number of their flagship things. There is no detail | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
on their immigration policy. They reiterate the ambition, but not how | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
they are going to do that, without a massive increase in resource for | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
Borders officials. We are at a time where average wages are lagging | :03:05. | :03:10. | |
behind prices. And in work benefits remain frozen. I would have thought | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
that the just-about-managings are people who are in work but they need | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
some in work benefits to make life tolerable and be able to pay bills. | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
Doesn't she has to do more for them? Maybe, but this whole manifesto was | :03:27. | :03:34. | |
her inner circle saying, right, this is our chance to express our... It | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
partly reads like a sort of philosophical essay at times. About | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
the challenges, individualism against collectivism. Some of it | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
reads quite well and is quite interesting, but in terms of its | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
detail, Labour would never get away with it. They wouldn't be allowed to | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
be so vague about where taxes are going to rise. We know there are | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
going to be tax rises after the election, but we don't know where | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
they will be. 100%, there will be tax rises. We know that they wanted | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
a tax rise in the last budget, but they couldn't get it through because | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
of the 2015 manifesto. Labour do offer a lot more detail. People | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
could disagree with it, but there is a lot more detail. More to get your | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
teeth into. About capital gains tax and the rises for better owners and | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
so on. The SNP manifesto comes out this week, and the Greens and Sinn | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
Fein. We think Ukip as well. There are more manifestos to come. The Lib | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
Dems have already brought theirs out. Isn't the Liberal Democrat | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
campaign in trouble? It doesn't seem to be doing particular the well in | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
the polls, or at the local elections a few weeks ago. The Liberal | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
Democrats are trying to fish in quite a small pool for votes. They | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
are looking to get votes from those remainers who want to reverse the | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
result, in effect. Tim Farron is promising a second referendum on the | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
deal at the end of the negotiation process. And that is a hard sell. So | :05:21. | :05:28. | |
those voting for remain on June 23 are not low hanging fruit by any | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
means? Polls suggesting that half of those want to reverse the result, so | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
that is a feeling of about 20% on the Lib Dems, and they are getting | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
slightly less than half at the moment, but there are not a huge | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
amount of votes for them to get on that strategy. It doesn't feel like | :05:49. | :05:56. | |
Tim Farron and the Lib Dems have promised enough. They are making a | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
very serious case on cannabis use in a nightclub, but the optics of what | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
they are discussing doesn't make them look like an anchor in a future | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
coalition government that they would need to be. I wonder if we are | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
seeing the re-emergence of the 2-party system? And it is not the | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
same two parties. In Scotland, the dynamics of this election seemed to | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
be the Nationalists against the Conservatives. In England, if you | :06:23. | :06:24. | |
look at what has happened to be Ukip vote, and what Sam was saying about | :06:25. | :06:42. | |
the Lib Dems are struggling a bit to get some traction, it is | :06:43. | :06:43. | |
overwhelmingly Labour and the Conservatives. A different 2-party | :06:44. | :06:45. | |
system from Scotland, but a 2-party system. There are a number of | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
different election is going on in parallel. In Scotland it is about | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
whether you are unionist or not. Here, we have the collapse of the | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
Ukip vote, which looks as though it is being redistributed in the | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
Tories' favour. This is a unique election, and will not necessarily | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
set the trend for elections to come. In the Tory manifesto, I spotted the | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
fact that the fixed term Parliament act is going to be scrapped. That | :07:13. | :07:21. | |
got almost no coverage! It turned out to be academic anyway, that it | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
tells you something about how Theresa May is feeling, and she | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
wants the control to call an election whenever it suits her. | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
Re-emergence of the 2-party system, for this election or beyond? For | :07:35. | :07:43. | |
this election, yes, but it shows the sort of robust strength of parties | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
and their fragility. In other words, the Lib Dems haven't really | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
recovered from the losses in the last general election, and are | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
therefore not really seen as a robust vehicle to deliver Remain. If | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
they were, they might be doing better. The Labour Party hasn't | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
recovered in Scotland, and yet, if you look at the basic divide in | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
England and Scotland and you see two parties battling it out, it is very, | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
very hard for the smaller parties to break through and last. Many appear | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
briefly on the political stage and then disappear again. The election | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
had the ostensible goal of Brexit, but we haven't heard much about it | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
in the campaign. Perhaps the Tories want to get back onto that. David | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
Davis sounding quite tough this morning, the Brexit minister, saying | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
there is no chance we will talk about 100 billion. And we have to | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
have power in the negotiations on the free trade deal or what ever it | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
is. I think they are keen to get the subject of the manifesto at this | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
point, because it has not started too well. There is an irony that | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
Theresa May ostensibly called the election because she needed a | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
stronger hand in the Brexit negotiations, and there was an | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
opportunity for the Lib Dems, with their unique offer of being the | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
party that is absolutely against the outcome of the referendum, and | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
offering another chance. There hasn't been much airtime on that | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
particular pledge, because instead, this election has segued into being | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
all about leadership. Theresa May's leadership, and looking again at the | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
Tory manifesto, I was struck that she was saying that this is my plan | :09:33. | :09:40. | |
for the future, not ABBA plan. Even when talking about social care, he | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
manages to work in a bit about Theresa May and Brexit. And Boris | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
Johnson this morning, an interview he gave on another political | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
programme this morning, it was extraordinarily sycophantic for him. | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
Isn't Theresa May wonderful. There is a man trying to secure his job in | :10:00. | :10:06. | |
the Foreign Office! Will he succeed? I think she will leave him. Better | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
in the tent than out. What did you make of David Davis' remarks? He was | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
basically saying, we will walk away from the negotiating table if the | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
Europeans slam a bill for 100 billion euros. The point is that the | :10:25. | :10:32. | |
Europeans will not slam a bill for 100 billion euros on the negotiating | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
table. That is the gross figure. There are all sorts of things that | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
need to be taken into account. I imagine they will ask for something | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
around the 50 or ?60 billion mark. It looks that they are trying to | :10:47. | :10:53. | |
make it look like a concession when they do make their demands in order | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
to soften the ground for what is going to happen just two weeks after | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
general election day. He makes a reasonable point about having | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
parallel talks. What they want to do straightaway is deal with the bill, | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
Northern Ireland and citizens rights. All of those things are very | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
complicated and interlinked issues, which cannot be dealt with in | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
isolation. I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up with parallel talks, | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
just to work out where we are going with Northern Ireland and the | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
border. Steve, you can't work out what the Northern Ireland border | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
will be, and EU citizens' writes here, until you work out what our | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
relationship with the EU in the future will be. Indeed. The British | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
government is under pressure to deal quickly with the border issue in | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
Ireland, but feel they can't do so because when you have a tariff free | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
arrangement outcome, or an arrangement that is much more | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
protectionist, and that will determine partly the nature of the | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
border. You cannot have a quick agreement on that front without | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
knowing the rest of the deal. I think the negotiation will be | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
complex. I am certain they want a deal rather than none, because this | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
is no deal thing is part of the negotiation at this early stage. | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
Sounding tough in the general election campaign also works | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
electorally. But after the election, it will be a tough negotiation, | :12:22. | :12:29. | |
beginning with this cost of Brexit. My understanding is that the | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
government feels it's got to make the Europeans think they will not do | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
a deal in order to get a deal. They don't want no deal. Absolutely not. | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
And I'm sure it plays into the election. I'm sure the rhetoric will | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
change when the election is over. That's all for today, | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
thank you to all my guests. The Daily Politics will be | :12:51. | :12:52. | |
back on BBC Two at 12.00 And tomorrow evening I will be | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
starting my series of interviews with the party leaders - | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
first up is the Prime Minister, Theresa May, | :13:00. | :13:01. | |
that's at 7pm on BBC One. And I'll be back here at the same | :13:02. | :13:03. | |
time on BBC One next Sunday. Remember - if it's Sunday, | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. We've made great strides | :13:07. | :13:55. | |
tackling HIV. Imagine if we could | :13:56. | :13:57. | |
create a movement | :13:58. | :14:00. |