11/03/2012 Sunday Politics South West


11/03/2012

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In the south-west: People worried health reform will mean a health

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care gets worse. And the master craftsman at the

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1811 seconds

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Welcome to Sunday Politics. Coming up: The immigration rules force a

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craftsman to stocktaking pupils. My guests -- My guests this week

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bring together two of the region's glorious uplands. The Labour peer

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Ann Mallalieu, long-term resident of Exmoor, president of the

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Countryside Alliance and once described by the Daily Mail as a

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Brigitte Bardot look-alike, and Dan Rogerson, the Liberal Democrat MP

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for North Cornwall and chairman of the All Party Parliamentary Cheese

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Group. As I have the President of the Countryside Alliance, I would

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like to talk briefly about this free vote to a peel the have -- the

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hunting ban. The Government is vague about when it will happen.

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People with in the hunting community are saying, they do not

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want it? They have done the sums and they think you will lose.

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think the figures are tight. It is not sure one way or the other. I do

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think there will come a time... Would you like it in this

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Parliament? Yes. As soon as possible. Every minute that act is

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out, time is being wasted, animal cruelty has increased and I hope

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there will be evidence of that MPs will look at. People are being

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unjustly pursued and followed. this was a Conservative pledge. I

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know you want a ban. Would you like to finish hunting for good? This is

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something I approach with an open mind. I went on a hunt one day. It

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was not the most exciting afternoon. I have looked at the situation, the

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dire prophecies. That has not happened. So you are not fast?

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think if there is a vote, the ban will stay. -- bothered. The NHS

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reforms have dominated the news for another week. It is easy to forget

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this is a health and social care bill. Providing social care is an

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enormous challenge, particularly here in the south-west with the

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elderly population. One part of Devon was held up as a shining

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example of successfully integrating clinical and social care. It is

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based on a structure which seems bound to disappear if the

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Government's reforms become law. My cooker has been raised so I can

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could easily. Mindy she appel has been able to keep our independence

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despite her mobility problems because of adaptations like these.

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Suffering from depression, angina, arthritis and asthma, she needs

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help from the NHS and social care services which are traditionally

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provided by separate bodies. She feels she has benefited from a

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joined up way of working which is being piloted in Torbay. You will

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get somebody who will come from occupational therapy and she will

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know somebody else that could help me in another area. You start off

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with one person and then you have everybody. It is brilliant. Under

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the scheme, the care trust received a budget from the NHS and the local

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authority to buy services for residents. Both health and social

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care staff work from that same building, providing a contact point

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for residents and means home helpers are able to work closely

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together to provide the services needed. A recent Health Select

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Committee report says Torbay Integrated Care Project has bought

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benefits. These include fewer emergency admissions, shorter stays

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in hospital and fewer delayed discharges. But the report also

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highlights concerns raised by Torbay Council that their

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partnership working will be diminished by the imminent health

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reforms. Some Liberal Democrats are also sceptical about the changes.

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The health reforms actually make the creation of a single body more

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difficult. The reforms are not going to help the process of

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achieving efficiencies the Government want to achieve. In the

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new NHS, it will not be possible for one body to buy or commission

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both health and social care services. Health ministers say this

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question of structure is not important but the real lesson to be

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learnt from debate is about culture and behaviour within the

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organisation. Dr Sarah Wollaston agrees. Residents in Torbay will

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agreed -- will continue to enjoy a joined up service. There is a real

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commitment from the authority, a real commitment from the Torbay

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Care Trust and the GPs to carry this work on. It is so important.

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not everyone is so optimistic. we are getting is silent working --

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so are working. Policies are developed and it is back room

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working. Mindy's experience of joined-up working has been positive

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and few would argue against the principles of integrating health

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and social care. The real contentions are over whether the

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reforms will deliver the organisational structures to allow

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what Mindy has benefited from to continue.

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Dan, the Health Minister said the tour they set-up was an experiment

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which did not get out of a lab. It seems to suggest it did not work.

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Bringing the two things together is where we want to be. It is the

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question of how it happens. It is just one model. If you look at

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Cornwall, we have hubs where professionals from health and

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social care work together without being in one institution. I suspect

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as proposals move forward, that will allow a councillors to be

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represented and to set strategic plans for health and social care

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across an area and those who are being commissioned to provide will

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have to work within that sector. They do not need to be in one

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building. It could be more integrated. Another point the

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minister made, he said the lesson from Torbay was not structure or

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cultural. But we should talk to each other. If you apply that to

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the NHS reforms, you would not be turning the whole thing upside down.

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You would just say talk to each other. There are two aspects to

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this. Who delivers it and who commissions it. You need to bring

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decommissioning together so there is a vision for health and care.

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When it comes to delivery, I have constituents who are happy with the

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set-up and those who are not. They might want to go somewhere else. It

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is giving them the opportunity to get the service which they want.

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Your government set up this pilot. Would you continue? Certainly. The

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Health Bill is being kept afloat by the Liberal Democrats. They paused

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it. They have decided for reasons of their own which are unclear to

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me that the Bill is going to continue. Every amendment was

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defeated this week. The Government had its way. That bill will reach

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the statute book because of the Liberal Democrat support. It will

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set one group of doctors against another. I cannot understand why

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anyone would think it is good practice to let people go out,

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imply a -- employee their own commissioning agents, by their own

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medicine when a group can buy things at a more advantageous rate.

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Torbay is doing something addressing that. They are bringing

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things together in cutting out layers of telephoning and then you

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get passed on. Integrating the whole service. Torbay is an example

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of what ought to be happening throughout the Health Service

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throughout the country. I think it is a tragedy the attempts to put

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things right a going to make things worse. It is a staggering thing to

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say that what was happening was integration. When I looked at what

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happened in Cornwell, we had increasing involvement in the

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private sector with attractive contracts for the private sector

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whether they carried the work out or not. This way is more

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transparent and it is a level playing field. We want a better

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deal rather than just handed over to the private sector. A large part

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of the most important people, in particular the doctors, do not see

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your way. If you produce reforms which produce this level of

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disquiet, you really ought to stop and look again and see what you're

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doing. The Lib Dems started doing and pours the bill. Now they have

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given in. Since they left office, Labour

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politicians have admitted they did not do enough to address

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immigration. The coalition has forged ahead with policies to bring

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her immigration levels down. For some, it is having unpleasant side-

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effects. Language schools have already protested about the damage

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the rules are doing to them. Johnny Rutherford has been talking to a

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different kind of businessman. Passion, enthusiasm, commitment,

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determination and creativity are said to ooze out of this workshop.

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There are no traditional examinations, these students learn

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their craft in an old-fashioned way. David Savage runs the year-long

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specialist courses from West Devon. Recent changes in immigration rules

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are ruining the business. I am at the top of my field and I have

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drawn people from all over the world to come here and to study.

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Now I cannot do that. Is too difficult. That is a real shame

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because people are coming here for what is great about Britain. Our

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sense of quality, skill and knowledge. We can no longer do it.

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Are to be able to sponsor a foreign student's application for a visa,

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you now have to have highly trusted status. You get this by paying for

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assessment to become accredited. have already paid over �4,000 for

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accreditation. That is good for six months. It is not good enough for

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the border agency. If we want to sponsor a stint for one year. For

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that, we would have to seek a new accreditation from the new body and

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that would cost more than double. Even then, there is no guarantee

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the border agency will give us highly trusted status. To apply for

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a visa, a student must be given a CAS number by their sponsor, a

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confirmation of acceptance on the cause. David was allotted three CAS

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numbers were 1 student application failed on a technicality. A single

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case amounted to 33% of their allotment. Policy states failure of

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more than 10% Prince schools even applying up for highly trusted

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status. -- prevents schools. might be OK for a university that

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has been allocated 400 numbers. We were allocated three. It is

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completely unfair and discriminates against the small specialist

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college. Within a year, this workshop will have to change.

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Already they have lost a quarter of their students and a permanent

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member of staff as a direct result of the Government changing

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immigration policy. Christopher Brown travelled from

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Texas to learn from David. He may be the last long-term international

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student at the college. I came to the workshop because this is one of

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the few places in the world where you can learn these skills under a

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master craftsman. In the difficult process to go through but it would

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have been a huge loss to me and it will be a huge loss to others if we

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cannot do this. That potential loss has been noted by David's local MP

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who thinks the Government should make allowances. I intend to be a

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thorn in the Government's side on this. This is a matter of principle.

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It is important. When you have a figure like David Savage, who

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increases and contributes to the cultural and artistic reputation,

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you have to design rules that do not run a bulldozer over the

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artistic endeavours of people like him. The Home Office says

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immigration was allowed to get out of control. A spokesperson told of

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it is vital the UK continues to attract the best international

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students but they said they have to be more selective about who can

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come here and how long they can stay.

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Damp, I will ask you this. If you are broadly supportive of the

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immigration strategy, would you except possibly this situation is

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the price worth paying? Yes. It is interesting the population in that

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this country is increasing the birthrate. I think it is legitimate

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to have this conversation about immigration. I struggle with

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something that came from the Conservatives, flat caps on numbers.

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Then you get this situation here. The Government will have to refine

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it up to deal with cases like this. As long as we continue to bear down

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on illegal immigration and processing asylum cases, that will

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lead to better gains than getting the people who play by the rules.

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And, is the coalition having to clear up the mess? I think so. We

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were very relaxed. There were far too many people who came on bogus

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courses and disappeared and we had no means of checking who went out.

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The public rightly wanted to see things changed. I do not think they

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want to see what is going on now which is a role which has no

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sensible flexibility. Something like this, it is crazy. Students

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shouldn't have to go through this if it is a course they can't get

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anywhere else. I have had people saying about racing, this is my

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best rider but he is not allowed to come back. He has got to go. We

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have got to have flexibility. Especially with people who have

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particular skills all want to learn the skills we can uniquely provide.

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I dislike rules with no exceptions. Now for our round-up of the

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political week. The leaders of Devon and Somerset

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Fire authority see their careers go up in smoke after the reaction to

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their plans to put up council tax and members' allowances. I should

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not be punished. Allegations of arson and milk contamination at

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this farm. The owner thinks he has been targeted for supporting the

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badger cull. There are people in the country who can do such an act,

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I cannot believe it. Eight Devon MP demands compensation for the few

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men and vegetable victims of sudden ogre death. We want the trees to be

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be planted and we want successful woodland. Planners give the go-

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ahead for a �1 billion new town besides these rolling green fields.

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Where do you stand on badger culls? Behind people who speak out and say

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what they think and are on the receiving end of criminal behaviour

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like that. I am on the side of a cull in areas where there is a

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serious TB problem. I would like to see the people who set these barns

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a light, come and help in areas ridden with TB. Let them see what

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is going on the farms. The Lib Dems promised a cull. It is not

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something that all of you are comfortable with false up I am not

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comfortable with it. None of us want to see animals destroyed. The

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only way we are going to bed down on this disease, if we look at all

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the sources of infection, badgers are part of it. Some are opposed to

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Andrew Neil and Martyn Oates with the latest political news, interviews and debate, including work and pensions secretary Iain Duncan Smith and chief secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander.


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