29/04/2012 Sunday Politics South West

In the South West: The MP who says God can heal, the humanist who

thinks such claims are putting lives at risk. And the children who

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1692 seconds

The Christians in a row about their claim that God can heal cancer.

With me for the next 20 minutes are a double act we've treated you to

before. They were such good value we've invited them back. Lib Dem

peer John Burnett and Cornwall Council's one and only Labour

councilor, Jude Robinson. Welcome. It is a week full of stories, one

was the return of this debate about whether the Government plans to

camp housing benefit is forcing people out of London. Forcing

homeless people into other parts of the country. The Labour councillor

in London says yes and the Government says there should not be

happening. We have somebody who has turned up in Torbay who claims

Westminster City Council put in there against his solution? Let us

say exactly what we have done. We have capped benefits at �26,000 per

year and gross that for taxation and that is �35,000 and every

viewer watching this today will think that is a phenomenally high

sum. I cannot understand that. you agree with the Housing Minister

that this does not force people out of London? It will force people out

of the most expensive properties in Mayfair and Belgravia, but there

are other places. It is obvious that in parts of London, the rent

is so high that that will force people out. And for us in the

south-west, this is a minefield. We already have difficulty housing

people that they already have on the waiting list and to have people

coming from more expensive areas... The Government says there is done

to property for this council area. They're playing politics ahead of

the elections? They were said that and they are out of touch and what

people are paying. We know that if you are trying to find somewhere to

rent, whatever is advertised in the paper, many have gone when you try

to apply and many landlords will not take benefit claimants. It is

really difficult. My own view, if I can just say, there are many

properties available for under �26,000 per year. Many places.

must move on. Schoolchildren in much of the South West are among

the worst funded in the country. This leaves pupils in places like

Devon thousands of pounds worse off every year than their opposite

numbers in the best-funded urban authorities. After years of

campaigning, the last government agreed to review the funding

formula and the coalition launched its own consultation into doing so.

The Education Secretary has now reached his decision, which is to

do absolutely nothing about it until after the next election. Amy

Cole reports. Each pupil in this history lesson is worth less than

their contemporaries in other parts of the country. Why? Well, it's a

matter of geography. According to F40, the group campaigning for

fairer school funding, Devon seems to lose out against more urban

areas. How do they feel? I never thought about this because I have

sinned every pupil would be worth the same. It is hard to think it's

that some of us are less important. That money could go towards more

teachers and smaller classes. teacher, Jason Scott, who is also a

parent, thinks the Government is failing pupils in rural areas like

Devon. The Government are doing these children and a service. We

are well and have our own problems, children, and buses, the course

that goes with travelling and troops and everything else, that

isn't recognised. We are a very poor area of the country and we're

getting hit double. As you can see from this table, none of the South

West's education authorities receive more than �5,000 per pupil

per year. Devon receives the lowest amount at just over �4,600 per

pupil per year. Compare that to schools in the City of London and

the difference is staggering. They receive more than �9,300 per pupil

per year. Campaigners had high hopes that the government was going

to help rural schools. But earlier this month the Education Secretary,

Michael Gove, said the current government wouldn't be making any

changes to the funding formula. The decision has dismayed one former

Labour schools minister. -- schools minister. We have just patched and

something for pockets of rural deprivation to make things easier

for some of the series. We have a big consultation process and the

group representing rural areas put into that and it was ignored.

week, MP's from all parties, such as Cornwall's Sheryll Murray,

debated the issue of fairer funding. In the long term, we have to have

much more equal funding amongst the schools, regardless of the local-

authority. And Cornwall is about 134th out of 151 local authority

areas and that is really bad. We should not have 151 local

authorities receiving different funding and we have to look at this.

F40 has provided the government with a number of more affordable

options. One includes making an extra �99 million available

immediately, which it says would start to narrow the gap and give

pupils a better education in the future. We are joined by Gary

Stricker. I want to begin with you. These areas affected, predominantly

rural Conservative areas, Conservative MPs have campaigned to

change this and had you not had to abide by your own government?

Secretary of State did not say we're doing nothing, we are

reviewing this and nothing will be introduced in terms of any change

between now and 2014. That is what was actually said. The problem is,

it is hugely complicated. It is often recognise that there are

about three people in the country to understand local authority

funding, the former for schools. And work is already underway on

reviewing what can be a fairer system and we have set out what

will happen, it will be simpler, easier to understand and warfare.

We will not know what will happen until after the next election.

Because it is complicated and we need time. Being cynical, unless

you have more money to put into the funding of schools, that means

there will be losers? What of the reasons for not do this in the

short term because this government is fair. At a time when schools are

under the tough conditions, that isn't a good time. You don't have

your eye on floating voters in London he might be losing money?

Not at all. This is about getting a very important matter about and put

in place for the next generation affair funding for Miller and that

will require taking something away from northern cities and giving it

to rural areas. But it will not happen overnight. Dude? One thing I

understand with is this is complicated and we always start

from this point when talking about funding. From the money. Are the

results in this area much worse? They're not. By army not talking

about what works and education rather than how much money be put

in? One of the massive complications isn't the urban areas,

they have a lot of children who don't have English as their first

language, but you must put more money into things like that. People

in urban areas deserve more money? Teachers in the south would say

that actually, even the average level of funding would keep my

budget in the black, stop me having to make teachers redundant.

Everybody wants to move to a fairer system. We do. And there are issues

in Cornwall were urban areas are getting far less than rural areas

because of the way the funding is cut. Let's look at all these issues

together. We saw Holsworthy Community College, in your old

constituency, well? It has been a problem during her time in office

and something I have picked up the baton with that on many occasions

but the Ministry of State said that he has sketched out a very profound

set of aspects from this review and we will cut away 37 factors and

concentrate on 10 of them. It will be more simple. It is a very

difficult problem, it is a bit like the Holstein Question, three people

knew about that and one was dead and one had forgotten. We will get

this right, it will be fair and the point made that you can get an

inner-city school with 50 different languages being spoken, that is one

of those factors. It will be right, it will take time but at least

we're doing something about this. Nothing was done from 97 until 2000.

Bowker, we must move on. -- OK. You might be surprised at some of the

issues the Advertising Standards Authority gets involved in.

Recently it condemned a misleading advert placed by a group

campaigning against Devon's incineration plans. It has also

banned leaflets handed out by a Christian group which claims God

can heal people of cancer and a list of other illnesses. The

decision has infuriated the MP who chairs Christians in Parliament.

That MP is our own Gary Streeter, so he'll be staying with us to

discuss this report from Tamsin Melville. A healing prayer session

in Truro. Volunteers from the city's Healing on the Streets

branch offer their services free of charge. A leaflet they're using

says God can heal you today and lists a number of ailments from

back pain to cancer. We are not claiming this will happen for you

right now and they are not saying that we will replace the NHS. Just,

sometimes, it can happen. We can work alongside the NHS and we can

refer people to the NHS if we have concern. The group Tracy runs is

part of a national network. And a complaint about a leaflet almost

identical to this being used in Bath has led to the Advertising

Standards Authority banning its use there, saying it's misleading and

could discourage people from seeking medical treatment. The

regulator told The Sunday Politics: We don't wish to disregard anyone's

beliefs but specific claims targeted at people who may be

seriously ill must comply with the rules on substantiation and social

responsibility that apply to all Last week, footballer Fabrice

Muamba described his recovery from cardiac arrest as more than a

miracle. His case is being used by Devon MP Gary Streeter in his

challenge to the ad watchdog over its ruling. As chair of the

Christians in Parliament group, he has co-written a letter asking the

authority to provide scientific evidence to show prayer doesn't

work. And he makes it personal. Gary Streeter writes in the letter

about his own experience of what he calls divine healing at a church

meeting in 1983. He says after prayer at the meeting he was

immediately free of pain in his right hand and has been ever since.

The ASA says testimonials are insufficient evidence for claims of

healing. Others say an MP shouldn't get involved. For somebody in his

position to advance these ideas is extremely dangerous. He does put

people's lives at risk. And he puts his own reputation at risk because

he clearly cannot tell fact from fantasy. But the Healing on the

Streets movement is not alone in believing in the power of prayer to

heal. For centuries, Catholics have been visiting places like Lourdes

in France to be cured. But even those who fully believe urge

caution. One should not say that God will hear today because we

literally cannot say that God can heal somebody of some dreadful in

this today. Healing is in God's hands and this is unquestionable.

That God can heal and does heal people. I firmly believe that along

with countless other believers. Back in Truro, the Healing on the

Streets group is waiting for an imminent decision on the Bath

appeal against the ASA's ruling. You do not look like a dangerous

man. But it strikes may that it is impossible to be a Christian and

not like, -- not, like the Monsignor, believe that God can

heal. But this ticketless specific diseases and there is nothing else

about the tenets of Christian belief, it is all about healing?

Does it across the line? It is probably unwise to list complaints

that you can be healed from, it seems clinical and this isn't about

pushing buttons. I fully accept that sometimes people pray for

healing and it does happen and sometimes it does not. The words of

the Advertising Standards Agency objected to what that God can heal

you physically. I say that is the same as saying, God isn't real. God

does not exist. That is what they are really saying. That isn't their

decision, that is a matter for individual fate. It has been a part

of mainstream Christian tradition for 2000 years. God can heal you.

We should not be stopped from making that very modest claim

because it does happen to be true. You had a look at the Lee for, do

you agree? -- leaflet. I do not know why the Church is getting into

this, I have a lot of time with the Church, the work it does with

Thomas Papal and other problems in society... Should this be banned?

Is there an issue of freedom of speech? If the Church wants to say

that God can heal, I'd do not see how that can be banned but the

issue of the small print, like the *, only adviser to seek your

doctors for a vacation, that cheapens this and the Church should

stay away. I want to go to buy Tesco shop and have my bunions

fixed by back-heeler on the way. Why would you go down this road?

What people are doing is take to the streets the message that God is

alive and he can he knew. But it is a mistake to less things,

especially if bargains are there... That's not to say that God cannot

heal Bunyan's but it is part of our gospel to take the good news to the

streets and it really is a question of freedom of speech, freedom of

conscience and the ASA should not band this. Come, you are practising

Catholic and the Catholic Church isn't just believe that miraculous

healing happens, but it regularly and colleges specific instances.

Does that put you on Gary's side? They it does not. I should add that

I could be a better Catholic, although I am practising, and we

could all be better but certainly myself. I am on the Advertising

Standards Agency side and when my beloved father went to Lourdes

before he died with terminal cancer, he was not looking for a cure but

he got great comfort and solace. That is a matter of faith. I think

this kind of advertising can be misleading to people. If you look

at it like that, in its broad nakedness, it looks as though, if I

pray I will be cured. That is wrong. It is wrong but belief that does

not say that God will hear you, it says that God can heal you.

know what people are like. They will say that God can heal today,

and I think it is misleading and I am with the Advertising Standards

Agency on this. There is this fundamental issue of freedom of

speech, to persuade people of the views you passionately hold but

other people might think are nonsense. You cannot mislead people

in advertising. And the way this is put is too much, you do this and

something will happen. It has crossed the line. It does seem like

advertising. That is a problem. I do not see why the Church needs to

do this. We must move on. Thanks, Gary. Now our regular roundup of

the political week in 60 seconds. The campaign to save the pasty from

the taxman rolled into Westminster. I could not put up by prices by 20%.

Plans to recycle incinerator ash at this quarry in but vastly were

rejected by councillors and they need to be recycled and not run

away themselves. I did a percent of the town said know. As to the

councillors. It just indicates this. This is democracy. In Cornwall, too

much money is being thrown away on the council's chief executive,

according to the tax payers alliance. You cannot as a Chief

Executive decide where to make spending cuts if you are not

willing to take a pay freeze, if not a pay cut. The hands and feet

are well done but apart from that... Like or loathe it, the statue has

embroiled the council in more financial controversy. Councillors

admit they paid for it with money they should have spent on something

else. Well, the taxpayers Alliance compound the Rich List of

councillors. Should any Chief Executive take a pay rise this

year? No, I do not. Something has gone wrong. We are in this arms

race of top salaries for everybody wants more. Having said that, in

defence, and would say he has taken a pay cut in the past year because

of financial situation. I think this whole thing of top salaries

are is getting out of hand. John? completely agree and I think that

he earns �207,000 each year. Phenomenal. And in this part of the

world. And it isn't stopping at the Saturday, his pension will be

enormous. The package is very generous indeed. It would be

interesting to see how this compares with the Chief Executive

of Devon County Council. It is too high and I think you should take

another pay cut. And the pasta tax riot rolls on? I know! What an

appalling thing to do. You can talk about sorting out anomalies, as