20/05/2012 Sunday Politics South West

The Cornwall councillors who are leaving the Liberal Democrats -

they say the Pasty Tax is one of many reasons why they've lost faith

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1804 seconds

Hello, coming up on the Sunday Politics in the South West...

The MPs being targeted by a campaign for an EU referendum.

For the next 20 minutes I'm joined by Jude Robinson, Labour councillor

on Cornwall Council and Ros Kayes, deputy leader of the Lib Dem Group

on West Dorset District Council. The leader of the Liberal Democrats

in Cornwall has told Nick Clegg he must sit up and listen to the

concerns of two Lib Dem councillors who left the party this week. They

resigned within a day of each other and both blamed the leadership for

their departures. Later we were here Nick Clegg's response. -- we

will hear. First, this report... For 10 years, Graham Walker was a

lead them, elected to Cornwall Council in 2009. -- Liberal

Democrat. Earlier this week, he quit the party. The bottom line is,

I cannot defend some of the things that the Lib Dems are allowing the

Conservatives to do. He was not the only one. Chris Pascoe ended an

association with the Lib Dems that started over 30 years ago. He was

the first to quit the party. Government are making so many

mistakes. I have given them three years and it has not got any better.

Two defections is hardly the end for the Lib Dems in Cornwall but

for an end -- for a place steeped in liberal tradition, it has not

gone without notice. In the Celtic fringe, the area the party always

falls back on, if they are losing councillors here are a bit

councillors are worried about losing their vote here, that is

something that will concern the leadership. Four a clue to what is

going on looked no further than eight demo in Falmouth. -- look no

further than a demo. The Pasty Tax has been the main thing. It is an

icon in Cornwall and it is a step too far. It is just an insult to

the Cornish. As a college lecturer, education issues from the scrapping

of tuition fees to Free Schools have all played on councillor

Walker's mind. Then there are the austerity measures, health reforms

and benefit changes. All in all, coalition policies that have led

him to get off his bike and quit the party. I understand that the

party is between a rock and a hard place. It is at the point for me

that I do not feel I have a choice. I have been canvassing and I have

asked people. I have heard very clearly that they will not vote

because of what the Liberal Democrats have done nationally. My

only choice is to become independent. Councillor walker does

not even know if he will defend his majority. The government are going

to have to take note of particularly the reasons that

Graham has given for his departure and act on it. If we stop listening

as a national party we are in trouble. What I would say to them

is, we are disappointed to lose somebody of this Canada. I hope the

party will take notice. president of the lead Dems tried to

talk councillor Walker out of quitting, a sign of how worried

party leaders are following the local election results. In my last

two years, the party has lost over 1,000 councillors. Some believe

preservation is best achieved from the inside. It is better to hang on

in there. Regimes come and go. Policy stances news and change and

if you are not in their, then you lose your right to criticise.

we are going to the polls next year, some councillors thing hanging on

his to bigger risk. You are a Lib Dem councillor. Do

you think a lot of people feel this way about the leadership? A lot of

people do Part I have to agree with Adrian, if you want to change

things, you have to fight the battles that need to be fought.

There are areas where I think going into coalition, we were wide-eyed

in terms of the NHS and education issues. Nick played? I think the

negotiators missed a trick. Those issues of health, education and

housing are issues we are trying to address. Is Nick Clegg still the

right man for the job? I think there are questions about the level

of popularity that Nick Clegg has. I campaigned on the doorstep last

year and was re-elected with a fourfold increase in my majority.

It does not sound like you are endorsing him. He is doing an

excellent job of holding the coalition together. That is what

the country needs. You just have to look at Italy. We have a clip of

Nick Clegg from Friday in Cornwall. We put it to him that councillors

were defecting and blaming him. is a great pity when people leave

any political party at any time. I don't want to in any way duck the

fact that of course, the party nationally is taking difficult

decisions. We are involved with painstaking compromises at a time

when there is no money. Some people do not like that but it is my job

to explain why we are doing it and that we believe it is the right

thing in the long term and that if you want to wipe the slate clean

for the next generation to move forward as the country, create jobs

and prosperity and optimism in Cornwall and the rest of the

country, we need to get through this difficult time. Does that make

you feel better? I think the Big Issue is that people trust the

Liberal Democrats while they do not like Nick Clegg. What I do find is

that people trust the brand. It is retaining the core values of

liberal democracy. Some have defected. Let's move on. Why did

these councillors not defect to Labour? That is an interesting

question. I knock on doors are a lot and people on the streets are

coming across to Labour in droves. I do not get the feeling in

Cornwall that people trust the Lib Dem brand at all. They do not seem

to trust Labour. There are two people so disillusioned that they

have jumped ship, yet they did not take Labour as an alternative?

is a strange relationship between Labour and the Lib Dems in Cornwall.

You are the only Labour councillor? At the moment. We have areas where

we are coming back. In the constituency I am in, there is one

Lib Dem councillor. In West Cornwall, the Lib Dems are not

strong. They are stronger than Labour, aren't they? You have not

had an MP since 2005. In my constituency I am in, there is want

Lib Dem councillor and one Labour. The rest are Tories are independent.

-- or independent. I do not understand why Graham or Chris did

not come to Labour. I wonder if the style of campaigning is too

different. The Lib Dem vote in Cornwall... Are there any others

you have heard of? There are people who have talked about it. They do

not seem to be able to make the leap. This may not be the last. Is

this about Lib Dem policy as much as people's individual chances? If

it was just policy, surely people would have defected weeks ago?

think you are right. When you look at defections, they happen all over

the country all the time. Looking online earlier today, I could see

that there had been a Tory who defected to UKIP and one who had

defected to the Lib Dems. doesn't the party fall back on

Cornwall? I lot of defections happen for personal reasons. -- a

lot of. If I was in the Labour Party are would be worried, why had

they not come to Labour? What is it about the lack of charisma of the

Labour leadership and a lack of community activism in the South

West that would mean they have not gone? We have had town councillors

come across to Labour. We had one in Penzance.

The campaign for a referendum on Europe is heading for the south-

west. An all-party group called the People's Pledge this week announced

six constituencies in Devon and Cornwall where they plan to hold a

local poll. This should please at least three of the region's MPs who

have signed up. There are worries that people will vote with an eye

on the current troubles in Europe rather than its long-term prospects.

It is five years since the people here were asked to consider Europe.

A big majority voted in favour of a have a referendum. Voting yes, 260.

But voting no, 12. But turnout was a mere 18%. The people are cynical.

It is good to give people a chance anyway. This is a good result.

campaign group called the People's Pledge now wants to hold similar

local polls as a way of prayer for her -- pressurising the government

to hold a national referendum. They held a list of constituencies where

they would like to do this. Many of them are marginal Conservative

seats were UKIP is strong, like Camborne and Redruth. We have got

George Eustice. He is a fine man. He has a wafer-thin majority. He is

a former UKIP candidate are now he believes in it renegotiation. --

and now he believes in the renegotiation. The People's Pledge

held their first ballot in Essex earlier in the year and they won by

just 92 votes. Here, 90% said yes to a national poll. Turnout was 30%.

This week, the Newton Abbot MP became the third in the south-west

to sign up to the campaign. It is in my constituency. I have many

small businesses who are burdened by the high level of regulation

coming from Europe and that rural community. It is a real issue.

People need to have an informed say and I am determined government not

only allows them to have that, but the days on an informed basis.

was one of seven south-west rebel MPs who voted in favour of a

referendum last year. In west Devon, but local MP voted with the

government against the poll and his seat is being targeted by the

People's Pledge campaign. The NP shares similar pledge to this local

Conservative councillor. I am not sure it is practically possible,

however I would like to see as renegotiate our current position.

In the last general election, Newick -- UKIP came third in this

area. Here in the Conservative Club in Tavish Scott -- in Tavistock, I

found support. They have so much control over us. We should not have

to put up with Europe tell us. -- what Europe tell us. On the streets

there were similar views. It is important for people to be able to

say what they think. I think people more and more are thinking it would

be good if we could lead to the European Union. Some residents in

Devon and Cornwall could get the chance to express their views on

the Europe at the ballot box. The People's Pledge have announced they

will hold their next poll in Manchester this July, but they hope

to hold polls in the south-west in the autumn.

He is it time for a referendum in - - on Europe? I think there is

enough turmoil without referendums. Whatever happens in Europe affects

our economy and at the moment, our economy needs all of the help it

can get. Jon Cruddas is supporting the referendum. He signed up this

week for Labour. Be using he senses boats? There must be a reason he is

signing up. -- do you think. There probably will be a referendum. It

is getting to the point where this issue has to be dealt with once and

for all. There has not been a referendum since the 70s. This is a

democratic process. Things have changed since the 70s. Surely,

people should be given a chance to have their say? Yes, I did just --

I just do not feel right now it is the most important reissue -- issue.

The time for considerations of this nature is a time of calm, when

people can look at the arguments. I believe there needs to be a re-

evaluation of the way in which the EU works. Some of the problems have

been a result of the lack of governance issues and we need to

consider that. At the moment it would be madness. The impact on our

economy, where 40% plus of Trade is based in Europe, would be

devastating. It would be devastating on the EU project as a

whole. The impact of Britain withdrawing would be offer. Seeing

a referendum would be madness is because you would think the public

would vote to pull out of Europe? They are scaremongering at the

moment. He is that -- is that not taking away from the electorate?

When people vote out of fear they always make appalling decisions.

People make bad decisions were made road out of fear, that is why

Hitler got supported. But if the Lib Dems had their way, we would be

in a single currency right now. That surely undermines your

credibility? If you look at what was happening in the 1990s when we

were thinking about the 5th -- single currency, there was always a

split. I beg the country made the right decision. What I am concerned

about is that David Cameron is marginalising himself from the

mainstream and losing our ability to impact on what might happen with

rescue packages. You campaigned in one of the areas to be targeted in

these polls. What is the mood like? I think people are more concerned

about whether they can pay their rent, whether their kids are going

to get a job, whether they have a job at the end of the month. UKIP

got over 20% of votes in Plymouth, surely people are telling you

something? The last time anybody talk to me about Europe on the

doorstep was in 2008 and he said we should get out. I said, Cornwall is

getting �300 million from Europe over the next three years. He said

A there's been a big rise in the number of people forced to take

part-time work. Business leaders say the figure is close to 100,000.

West Devon District is the worst example, about 40% are suffering

part-time employment at the moment. It is a serious situation. One of

the charities which the government gets -- pays to get people back to

work has gone into administration. A grandfather from north Devon said

grandparents should be given a legal right to see their

grandchildren. There are lots of grandparents who are only too

willing and want to help their grandchildren.

At the Devon County Show, the environment secretary promised hill

farmers �30 million. Today's announcement will have the 300

commoners and Darbar in a scheme which boasts protects the

environment but helps them continue farming in that rugged but much-

loved part of the world. That Was the Week in 60 seconds. A

big rise in the number of people forced to take part-time work. What

should the government be doing? first thing we need to look at as

well as those statistics mean and in which sectors they are taking

part-time work. Are we looking at the 30 Aras, 20, or under 20? We

also need to look at patterns in terms of women are young people, or

bread winners have been there are has cut back? -- having their hours

Cup. Year on year, employment has gone up considerably. That is what

we are looking at. There are a number of people in part-time work

taking evening work, weekend work. That is an alarming feature, where

people are needing to take on extra work so they can live. This harks

back to feelings by the previous leader -- Labour government. They

had 10 years of boom time to build up manufacturing and a skills set

and we are looking at a government being asked to create jobs. A huge

amount of jobs were created under the Labour government and we put