27/05/2012 Sunday Politics South West

In the South West - as the school building programme is cut, one head

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1688 seconds

teacher says he needs a cash boost Hello and welcome to the Sunday

Politics in the South West. Coming up in the next 20 minutes: The

school with a leaking roof and the head teacher who says the

Government needs to fix it. can't open windows in some and

can't close them in others. The heating system had a new boiler put

on but the a pipework bleu all the joints. The roof doesn't keep the

rain out. It makes life very difficult. My guests this week are

Sheryll Murray, Conservative MP for South East Cornwall and tireless

campaigner for the fishing and maritime communities and Tudor

Evans, the Labour leader of Plymouth City Council. The pasty

tax back in Parliament this week. Stephen Gilbert had a debate. The

Government says it is listening, Nick Clegg was here a week ago

pushing the line they were listening. If the Government does

backtrack, can the Liberal Democrat say we have used our leverage to

nip a nasty Tory policy? No that amendment was supported by all

three serve MPs for Cornwall and the three Liberal Democrats. We

have all been lobbying equally on this point. I have to say that we

have just had a skutation, the consultation has only just ended. I

myself meat with the Chancellor this week in a different capacity

and I can assure you they are looking at it and I hope that we

will see a very clear line, so that the tax can be enforced properly,

if it is introduced, because ambient temperature is so ambiguous.

In a sense, not taking in pasties in the way they're usually sold. I

can't remember whether you were taking a leaf out of book of Ed

Miliband and taking a picture outsaid pasty shop. Will the pasty

prevail. I'm not one for hanging around pasty shops to be honest.

But I do... Should they have been? Well you know, the worst thing in

the world obviously is to have a photo opportunity that goes wrong.

I think they raised the issue quite well. Everyone's talking about it.

Don't forget it slipped through in the budget almost unnoticed. If it

mpbt been for Cornwall and Devon, I don't think anybody would have made

anything of it. But it is a lifestyle tax, certainly for us in

the west Country. Kafr Yar is still zero rated as far as I remember. --

calvier. It is not just pasties, there are meat and potato pie

makers, so it is a nationwide. is a big issue in the north of

England. The Government's welfare to work programme - which aims to

cut the welfare bill by getting more people into jobs - is having

all kinds of problems. One of the scheme's biggest providers

nationally has been stripped of its contract and is facing a fraud

investigation. It was also, incidentally, founded by somebody

who until recently was an adviser to David Cameron. Here in the South

West, one of our major contractors has gone into administration and

two others have mysteriously dropped out of the scheme. John

Danks has been straining every sinew to find out more. It is the

Government's �5 billion project to get more than three million people

into work. But is it working? Almost a year into the scheme and

figures suggest it may be underperforming. The aim of work

programme foirs providers to find sustained work for 36% on scheme

after two years. This week the body that represents Welfare to Work

providers said on average 22% of those on the programme have start

work. The Government says it is a good start. I tried to find out how

many people in the South West had found work, but was told this

information wasn't available. Three organisations who had signed up to

deliver the programme in the region were no longer doing so. Grand work

South West had been praised for their work by the employment

Minister. The voluntary sector is doing fine in the programme in the

South West. I have visited charities like Ground Work.

they're in administration. The BBC understands challenges relating to

its work programme contributed to this. The North Devon MP raised the

problems facing another contractor, in this leaked letter to Chris

Grayling. The funding model is in trouble, he wrote. The work

programme was plooned when the forecast for UK growth was 2.6%.

The forecast for this year is just 0.8%. The longer the economy flat

lines, the more difficult it is is for organisations to do their job.

And what about those other two proidviers - providers who Left the

schemement would they tell me why? No, they had all signed contracts

with gagging clauses. The department for work and pedgess

The providers that remain say they're increasingly concerned by

the state of the economy. A Government spoke person said it was

inevitable that some contractors will fall by the way side. That is

not good news for job seekers who are furtherest from the labour

market. Sheryll Murrray we heard the minister saying that the

voluntary sector is doing well in the South West in this context. I

was tempt -- that was temperaturing fate wasn't it? Yes I think it was.

But the reason that perhaps a lot of people are flagging up the

difficulties now with the system is that we are paying by results. The

last Government threw a lot of money into this scheme and they

were paying the money up front, or now... A lot of people, including

Nick Harvey say one of problems is you are paying by results. The

small charities in the rural South West can't survive under the system

where they have to wait six months to get most of their money. You're

saying that is a virtue of the system. We were left with a huge

amount of debt and we have a responsibility to get value for

money for British taxpayers' money. You want to get people into jobs.

We want to get people into real, long-term jobs what. Was happening

under the other scheme was somebody could join a scheme for a month and

then they would fall off the way side. And it wasn't producing real

results. I have to say to you that the reason we're paying by results

is to make sure that people are getting real training, they're in,

it is going to lead to real employment and we owe it to the

British public to provide a value for money for taxpayers. Tudor,

value for money, not paying people up front that is not value for

money. That is the standard operational line from the

Conservatives. Anybody who has had anything to do with the voluntary

sector can you tell you it is not in a position to cash flow and wait

until the end of a programme before is receive -- receiving money.

Partly because there has been a squeeze on voluntary sector for a

long time. The last decade and a half has seen transformation of

voluntary sector funding into project and results of orientated

work. That has not left a lot of surplus in bank accounts of

voluntary organisations to get from A to B. The tragedy is that this

was flagged up at the start of the work programme. We said that this

would happen. And the contrast between Labour's first two years in

office... It doesn't seem to be working that is the key thing.

scheme has been in place for 12 months. It's not doing very well.

The figures that there's no accuracy to those fi,, because it

hasn't been running for long enough. But some of these, you highlighted

the investigation, the fraud investigation case, that was down

to the last government scheme and at the end of the day we haven't

got a cedid card any more. We have the Chief Secretary of the Treasury

leave a message when he left office saying the pot is empty, there is

no money left. The first two years of the Labour Government compared

with the coalition Government, the idea that we were left, weren't

left a deficit in 1997 is prepos Prowse. You weren't. We're tray

straying into an enormous debate. We haven't got time to move into

that. Ten Devon schools were told they'd get new government funding

to update dilapidated buildings this week. Cornwall, Dorset and

Somerset though were all sent away empty-handed. The money for the

lucky schools comes later than promised and it's part of a massive

reduction in the Government's budget for new buildings - which is

depressing news for head teachers still desperate to see the back of

their crumbling classrooms. Tamsin Melville reports. Look at and have

a look at this, the state of window ps... Dealing with leaks and jamed

win do is is part of -- jammed windows is part of job for the head

of Cornwall's biggest community college. That wire is exposed. It

is a real difficulty. Built in the fits with a flat roof and riddle

with asbestos, this block is well past its sell by date with the

budget slashed by 80%, it is a battle keeping the classrooms safe.

This teacher says it is not uncommon for water to come through

the ceiling. By the end of the day there were buckets filling with

water. I wouldn't -- couldn't empty them quick enough. The problem was

the drips I kept walking into and a cold. When the first floor was

found to be crack five years ago, temporary classrooms were brought

in. The head said the whole thing needs knocking down and rere - o'

rebuilding. But he says they have been left in the lurchly the

Government. I have been in schools in the third world with better

classrooms. Hope of new classrooms were dashed within weeks of the

coalition take power, a �55 billion by Tony Blair to rebuild or

refurbish all the secondary schools were scrapped A move that triggered

national protests. The coalition pro re deuced this to a �2 billion

pot of private finance and this week announced where it will be

spent. Ilfracombe arts college is one school to benefit. Critics say

the scheme is not enough. When I was schools minister we were

spending �7 billion on school capital, about half was on building

schools. This is only a �2 billion scheme. That money will fast

disappear, huge as it may seem on first hearing. While missing out on

other funds this head teacher play have hopes the local authority

could help, but central government cuts means Cornwall's spending has

been slashed by more than a third with �10 million to spent across

the whole count y. Not enough for a rebuild here. This school isn't

enough in struggling with crumbling classrooms it is thought the back

lag log is nearly �80 million. The education Secretary has been

invited to see the state of some building, but he has had a reply

saying Mr Go is too busy. They're teaching children in cloak rooms

and special educational needs children in corridors. This is 2012.

We can afford the Olympics, but we can't afford something for our

children and their future. If this continues of course, our backlog of

�80 million in maintenance will shoot through the roof. Cornwall,

Somerset and Dorset all missed out this week, but Mr Gove says by next

autumn a survey by of all schools means that those in need of

renovation will be addressed. But this is subject to funds, so leak

roofs are likely to be a part of lessons for a while. It is all very

well for Jim Knight to talk about what you were spending in office,

but the shadow Secretary said you would be cutting and he has

conceded thated bying schools for the future was great for the lucky

schools, but it was inefficient. is ironic, we're being accused

today of fixing the roofs while the sun was shining. Lurbl I... But it

wasn't the most efficient way. have got a system now, let me put

this point to you, Plymouth didn't apply. Tory Plymouth, which I have

taken over from, did not apply for this funding. Because it is only

for those schools where the cost is 70% of a rebuild cost. In other

words it is not about the state of the skoorblgs it is not even about

the deprivation around it. It is all about this formula that they

have created. That meant that Plymouth didn't bother. And it is

outrageous when you see schools in that state and there are schools

like that in Plymouth that don't qualify for this funding. I have

got a picture on my wall of Ed Balls given a cheque for �78

million for building schools. That would have been been able to

transform a school and it was taken from us by go and instead we have

got -- Gove and instead we have got King James Bibles. We used to cut,

but this is one of biggest cuts I have come across, a 55% cut in the

school building budget. Well the thing is again if the money's not

there you can't spend it. Nobody wants to see children go to

school... You're taking one of biggest cuts. Nobody wants to see

children going to school in poor school buildings, but we saw a lot

of waste under the last Government's PFI programme. It was

way under budget and eight years behind schedule and something had

to be done. What we have done is... Cutting the budget?Y school on the

list was surveyed by a qualified surveyor. That is how it was done.

It was done in a practical way and the Secretary of State himself has

said that as there is more money... As it is available. It is not much

of a guarantee. Efficient councils like Plymouth, I commissioned she

vn new schools when I was in charge. We have had a structured

maintenance problem are being punished by this new funding regime

of Gove's. They're punishing those who have been fixing the roofs.

Which schools, which new schools in Plymouth did you build? All the

ones that were opened to a fanfare two year ago were commissioned on

my watch. They may have been, but unfortunately the last Government's

PFI building schools for the future scheme was hugely overbudget and

eight years behind schedule. Stkpwhra we're overtime. But we

have got time for a rund up of political week in 60 seconds. Peers

called for the new superwatchdog to have more teeth. The adjudicator,

the large retailers... Lord tevson listed the number of people who

need to be consulted before a fine can be impose. One or more person...

In the commons Gary Streeterer was back on message after his local

election revolt. Does this not demonstrate that our commitment to

increasing health funding and our health reforms are beginning to

bear fruit. One or more personing appearing to represent the

interests of consumers. Richard Drabgs told the Government to

rethink its coastguard cuts. And Dan Rogerson said the Olympic

committee should apoll jies for snatching the flag from this --

apologise for snatching the flag from this torch bearer. We're up to

nine billion at that point. Sheryll Murrray, I'm intrigued, as to the

circumstances in which you may find yourself at Prime Minister's

questions and come up with a variant of the question I wonder if

my friend would agree he is doing a wonderful job running the I country.

I have that is something that... The kind of question you would ask.

That needed to be high light. If I wanted to get a point across, yes.

It wasn't a constituency irissue. The message we want to get across

is that we have a very united Conservative Party, whose

priority... Do you think he wrote it himself? I think he did. I know

Gary and I'm sure he would, because he cares about health. But it shows

the message we want the get across is we're a united. Quickly, if we

saw Tudor Evans on the Labour benches would you ask a question

like that? Clearly I do it all in the time in the council chamber.

But I must say that was one of some question. It was a triumph and if

he doesn't get a job in the reshuffle I would be surprised.

he making amends. I don't think there was amends to be made and

Gary does care about the NHS. If 0 look back, he has concentrated on

the NHS all the time. So yes, if somebody that we're doing as a