14/10/2012 Sunday Politics South West

In the south west: The councillor who says services will be cut

unless tax is put up. And, the latest in the wind turbine

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2173 seconds

Hello, I'm Lucie Fisher. Coming up on the Sunday Politics in the South

West: The wind turbine row continues, as one senior

Conservative talks about the risks of renewable energy.

And, to discuss that and much more besides, I'm joined by two Lords.

The Lib Dem Lord Burnett, and Labour's Lord Whitty. Welcome, both

of you, to the programme. We're going to start by asking

whether David Cameron's speech this week addressed the concern from one

of his own MPs, that the Conservatives were being perceived

as the party for posh boys. The MP for Camborne and Redruth, George

Eustice, is reported to have said that, being thought of as the party

of the rich could be a "major problem" at the election. He's said

to be concerned about "unforced errors" by fellow Tory MPs which,

he says, have damaged public perception of the party.

He might have been talking about Andrew Mitchell and his comment to

police officers. Lord Burnett, as a coalition, did you think David

Cameron did enough to allay any of these fears about posh Tory boys?

He seemed to be tried to talk about spreading the privilege, to turn it

into an advantage if you like? I think he has to act in relation

to the Andrew Mitchell affair. Because it is now simmering. In

fact, it is coming to a boil. If you are a Tory member of Parliament,

and you read that the Daily Telegraph has a leader of saying,

Andrew Mitchell must go, I believe there's something in the Spectator

magazine coming out as well, you have to be concerned, and I think

the Prime Minister might well be concerned. Some of this is unfair

but you cannot have the police being undermined. They do a

wonderful job in our country. about this notion of privilege, can

he spread that? Was about people whose benefits are being cut, it

it's a hard sell if you say privilege is being spread about?

That is certainly true. There is an aura of privilege among the Cabinet.

And Nick Clegg, he has a privileged background. Is that damaging?

have a privileged background as well. What greatest present I ever

learnt, as a Royal Marine officer, when I saw the men under my command,

the most imperative lesson was, if they had had half my advantages,

they would be the officer, and I would be the enlisted men.

Sometimes I think that lessons like that come through experience and

time, and maybe that is something some members of the government, it

is a lesson some of them have got to learn. Lord Whitty, was it a

mistake to attack Ed Miliband? not very clever to say it Ed

Miliband is a bit posh when the whole of the Tory, that everybody

knows it is extremely posh. It doesn't matter if you are posh, as

long as you behave in away which relate to other people. The problem

with Andrew Mitchell, this is about an arrogant and elitist behaviour

which is a serious problem, one which is borne out by some of the

policies they are pursuing, including cutting the benefits. To

do that at the same time as you have a very rich looking government,

actually does not impress people. What about the reshuffle, what you

make of it? I would like to say, not every member of the Cabinet is

privileged or wealthy, and the benefits argument is an argument

which is different. As for the reshuffle, I was particularly

concerned that we had abandoned the defence portfolio. We had an

extremely able minister, it is not just the same that, but the senior

people in the armed forces telling me, civil servants, his fellow

Conservative ministers. We have also exchanged it for International

Development. I do not think politically that was a smart move,

I did not think it then or now. Plenty more to discuss. Eric

Pickles has once again tried to persuade councils not to increase

council tax, announcing this week that there'll be another freeze

fund next year. It's money which councils can use instead of putting

up council tax. He says it will help taxpayers, struggling to make

ends meet. But one senior Cornwall councillor has warned services will

have to be cut, unless council tax goes up. Tamsin Melville reports.

Meet Henry Davies, a self employed, married father of two living in

Truro. Henry pays �160 a month council-tax on his home. Although

the household budget can be tapped, he thinks this is value-for-money.

I would always like to pay less but there are realities. Yes, I

certainly feel more comfortable paying council tax band I do paying

water bills. It is people like Henry, from a hard-working family,

that the Local Government Secretary said today he wants to help.

believe in lower taxes. Whereas Labour doubles council tax, we have

worked with councils for the last two years to freeze it. And this

year, we are offering additional funding to help councils freeze

their bills again. Eric Pickles has offered a grant equivalent putting

council tax up by 1%, compared to last year of 2.5%, with the money

needed to help fund already squeezing frontline services like

rubbish bin collections, libraries and parks, one senior Cornwall

councillor is not impressed. If the council goes away nervously with

the 1%, then front line services will be cut. The new cuts of next

May will have a horrendous problem. How many councillors will be brave

enough and bite the bullet and say, we will put up council tax because,

in the long turn, it is the best thing for our people and everybody.

It's not just the shrinking grant getting some backs up in local

government. The 2011 Act allows President Obama's to veto excessive

council tax rises by referendum. Last year, the government said the

trigger at a 3.5% increase, this year it is suggested that goes down

to 2%. One public finance expert doesn't think this sits well with

the governors vocalism policy. third year we have been freezing

council tax with government making the running. Making those decisions.

There is a danger here that we will end up forgetting that the council

tax is really a local tax, set by local councils, every important

part of local democracy. Last year, this was one or two authorities to

reject the freeze funds and asked residents to pay more, avoiding a

hole in the next Budget. Cornwall went for the freeze but bills

across the counter went up anyway as the police of 30 and towns and

pressures put their parts up. Henry thinks it is difficult. Part of me

wants to say, yes, freeze it, I am happier. I think there is a middle

ground where they could be a slight rise but not in line with inflation.

If you freeze it, in the short turn a lot of people will be happy, but

actually it's the services which would have an adverse effect.

Eric Pickles, this is to get councils cutting back on spending.

In Cornwall, with local elections looming, more budget cuts on the

way, no let up in the demand for frontline services, politicians

face a tricky balancing act. Lord Burnett, this hot from the

government is a short-term fix. If they accept it, councils will find

they have to make even more sudden cuts down the line. Can that be

right? I was delighted to hear what West Devon and South Hams have done

on your report. They are at an efficient council. Led by their

last chief executive. You are pleased they haven't accepted the

offer by Eric Pickles? I am actually. Because efficiency and

value for money of what the public want. Now, there are, built into

the system, going to be extra demands, especially with care homes

and care for the elderly. That is something that is brewing up to be

a major problem. But it is good for the taxpayer? Good for the taxpayer

and also for the public as well. With councils that are not

efficient, they will have to work with fewer people, but more

efficiently, more productively. Before the last election...

freeze to fund -- freeze fund would be good, at a time when people

cannot afford it. The problem is, if you take the freeze fund, you

are not necessarily going to get it next year. You are going to spend

money which will not be replicated next year which is a problem.

Whitty, should council tax be frozen at the moment or is it

putting vital services at risk? think the councils should make

their own government -- judgment. I this government started out with

benign talk about localism. In fact, what Eric Pickles is now saying,

you can have because of but if you take the wrong decision by what

overall view. He is doing it on housing and planning. It is an

internal condition in relation to the government policy. Lord

Burnett? On planning, he is talking about muscular because of. To go

back to the point on council tax. The issue of vocalism, it isn't

taking power away from local councils on vital issues? 80% of

what local government spends comes from central government any way.

Central government should have a say in it. It wouldn't bother you

at all. Lord Whitty, you talked, you said it would give the decision

to local people but you haven't said whether you agree with it

being frozen? It is in light of their position on their own budget

and in their community. Actually, in other countries, the balance is

much more towards the local level. Local problems should be solved by

local of priorities. David, says Labour doesn't want to interfere at

-- just wants to put up taxes and spending. Some local councils may

well freeze. By. Is it should be a local decision. The issue about

borrowing -- my point is that it should be a local decision. Local

communities should make their own decision and not be imposed upon.

have to stop you there. A brief word? Remember that if councillors,

local councillors, wish to increase the rates of council tax by more

than 2.5%, there has to be a referendum. You have the chance

there for local decision-making. Arguments about wind turbines have

been raging for years now. There are those who think they're the

answer to the country's green energy needs. Others see them as a

blight on the landscape. The recent reshuffle cast doubts about the

Government's support for renewable energy. And, this week, the new

Environment Secretary said wind farms risk upsetting local people.

John Henderson reports. Has the great wind debate taken a

dramatic step forward? Listen to what the Environment Secretary said

to the Conservative Party conference this week.

relationship between renewable energy sources, and the communities

we expect to host them, must be appropriate, and sustainable. Above

all, acceptable to local people. Tuesday night, and the local people

are meeting here near Totnes. Passions are running high. Up for

discussion, the prospect of two wind turbines in the parish.

Acceptable? Listen. If they go ahead and the noise is as bad as

the report says it will be, then we will move out. It is about the

noise and use it to our countryside every day and every night way you

cannot get away from it. And the health issues associated with it.

We are really lucky to live here, so the least we can do his to find

ways of making our own energy. wrote to councillors to support it.

This animation shows what they are talking about, plans for two of 100

metre high wind turbines capable of producing enough renewable energy

to supplied approximately 2,500 homes each year. When it comes to

acceptable community support, those behind the wind farm believe they

are in the majority. The majority view prevails. The most recent

government opinion poll shows 65% of the population in favour of

onshore wind. Locally, we can see that playing out with our

supporters. The number of people that turn up for the anti- campaign

begins his 40. We have 500 members locally. Who have all put money in,

have all made an investment on the possibility of gaining planning

consent on this site. Government subsidies for wind farms have been

cut by 10% or those some Conservatives wanted deeper cuts

hoping it would stop what they believe is the march of the wind

turbines across the countryside. One Cabinet Mr issued a coded

message that subsidies could still be cut further. My department will

work closely, as it considers future support levels for LOCOG and

energy. This will ensure that the impact of these new technologies on

the rural economy, and Environment, is fully taken into account.

that is music to the Air -- to the ears of campaigners who want to

show the scale of the turbines here. This is one third of the total

height so it will go a lot higher. Lowest by some, loved by others.

The divisive nature of wind farms stretches from those in power, to

wear that power is generated. Lord Whitty, given what you were

saying about local issues being in the hands of local people. Is the

Environment Secretary right to say proposals for things like wind

turbines should be acceptable to local people? I think local people

have to put their view, but as the gentleman in the clip said, there

is greatly exaggerated attention to those who are against. He said in

his area the majority of the population are in favour. Except it

is a big voice. You do hear a huge voice from those people against it?

You do have to take the decision side-by-side, the local community

needs to have a view. What worries made far more is the appointment of

Owen Paterson to head of environment, when he is manifestly

not convinced about man-made climate change, and not on the

carbon reduction agenda. There are changes in the energy department as

well. The government has switched from support at the beginning of

office, to being against it, which is seriously worrying. Lord Burnett,

are the government turning their back on a green energy? Can I talk

about localism again? You went to a local when you were in office.

Answer it first about this government reshuffle, we have a

cautious renewable energy secretary. I know Owen Paterson, he is an

honourable man, I am sure he will look at the evidence. I am

convinced there is a problem with climate change but not convinced

that the answer is onshore wind turbines. When I was Member of

Parliament by opposed the number of them in my constituency, I am not

sure the case has been made for their effectiveness in addressing

climate change. So you are pleased to see Owen Paterson? I am entirely,

he will be a good secretary of state. You have to ask yourself,

there is a cost in producing wind turbines, a cost in installing them.

The wind does not blow all the time. In places but Cornwall at the

forefront of renewable energy, places like this have benefited.

That is because of the subsidies. Are these onshore wind farms

worthwhile in addressing this? think you can argue about the level

of subsidy. We need to move rapidly to develop all forms of renewable

energy and nuclear energy, and get away from a fossil fuel based

energy mix. If decisions like this, apparent changes of tack by the

government on this, slow down this, the cost will be huge to everyone.

We have a measure of agreement between us. Yes, nuclear, yes of

shelf -- offshore wind energy. Onshore wind power I do not believe

is necessarily a good deal for Britain. Lord Whitty, do you think

Labour bail out try to move in and seize some of this green agenda for

their own? David Cameron introduced the Greentree as the logo, do you

think maybe there is a creativity shift here? The Labour garment in

its time did adopt some effective green measures but I wanted them to

go further. If the Conservatives, I would say about the Liberal

Democrats, if the Conservatives are abandoning background... Ed David

is the energy secretary who does seem to be championing the cause.

Only today, Ed Davey succumbed to Treasury pressure on reducing,

abolishing what was a good idea of the government... May I remind you,

there isn't a limitless pit of money to spend. Now, our regular

round-up of the political week in Clashes at sea between French and

south west fishermen, send in the Navy, said the MP for South East

Cornwall. I did feel that the situation was becoming out of hand,

and was beginning to become more inflated. Cash is on land, anti-

nuclear campaigners tried to stop a new power station. The Green Party

leader said she supported them. The fact is the government isn't

listening to the people. A Devon mother who has gained -- against

the takeover of child care by The same people are asking me to

movies. What do you do? -- to move these.

These clashes between the Fisher men. Lord Burnett, is it necessary

for a French navy vessel to move them? Do you think this hasn't

worked? I do, it creates tension. It is very bad for our country. And

bad for Europe. What about UKIP calling for the British Navy to be

deployed? Would this level of disputes have provoked a ship to

patrol? No, I really don't think so. That is exaggeration. I think a

little bit of diplomacy is what is needed. Lord Whitty? What you make

of this? It is clear there is not a Common Fisheries Policy in this

area. I do not know if this is a short-term local issue. If it

develops, we need the capacity to stand by to intervene if necessary.

The real issue is how we have a proper fisheries policy across all

of Europe. I understand, in the past, the Navy has been sent to

patrol in these instances, to almost all disputes amongst

fishermen. I think I might challenge that. In the past, these

have been serious events. If lives are at risk, then there will be a