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The regional pay row at our largest hospital. And the license for
Somerset's badger cull trial is issued, but political controversy
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2130 seconds
Hello. Coming up on the Sunday Politics in the South West... The
licence for Somerset's badger cull has been issued, Bobby controversy
continues as councillors speak out against the plans. I am joined by
Tudor Evans, Labour leader of Plymouth City Council, and Julie
Girling, Conservative MEP. First up, health workers in Plymouth who have
been drawing up plans to fight proposals for regional pay.
Derriford Hospital says it needs to save �45 million over the next
three years. It has joined with 19 other NHS trusts in the region to
look at pay and conditions. Unions fear that could lead to workers
facing pay cuts of up to 20%. You hear a lot of people saying we
are all in this together, but it seems to be be people on the front
line and those delivering the front care who seemed to be hit hardest.
We asked the Prime Minister whether he approved of NHS trusts in the
south-west looking at regional pay. It is an issue for them. NHS trusts
have a choice of looking at the national framework are looking at
local arrangements. We should allow them to manage the NHS as they see
it effectively. Do we take it from that that he
sees this as a good idea, and do you? The idea has been on the table
for many years. I represent the South West, always the most
expensive place to live. London and the south-east get regional Pate in
effect already. The south-west is or was number two on that list. We
need to look at where the South West might benefit from regional
pride. Do you think networkers down here will benefit, and where will
the extra money come from? -- do you think the workers. The idea is
to save money. It does not mean there is going to be an extra �45
million available. That is true. Doing that as part of the overall
strategy for being more efficient and saving money is not a bad thing.
It is wrong to assume... But there is a pay freeze across the board.
Any savings must presumably come from pay cuts. The unions are
suggesting we could be up to 20%. That is scaremongering, to said
they could be up to 20%. When the pay freeze comes off, which it will,
they will have to negotiate. The unions will be asking for more
money. That is the context in which this should be seen. They will be
looking for increases. This is not a bad thing to bring him to do next.
Do you agree with that, it is actually a positive outcome? I went
to that meeting bad you showed on your front. -- that you should. The
motion was carried unanimously, because we know there any move to
regionalised play is actually a race to the bottom. Do you think
there will be pay increases? course not. They are private every
-- privatising their health service. People coming in need to make a
profit on reducing budgets. The only way they can do that is pay
the staff less. You are against it? Of course. It would be disastrous
for the health service, a race to the bottom for public sector pay.
This idea that we need to cut the public sector to make a private
sector competitive is nonsense. is an issue that is going to run.
Labour do not think there will be unions asking for pay increases
when the freeze ends, that is interesting.
There are plans to privatise some of Cornwall's public services and
they are proving unpopular. 5,000 people have signed a petition
against the scheme which would see libraries among other things part
run by a private company. The council leadership says it will
save millions of pounds and create hundreds of jobs. Vital services
could be cut, say sceptics. It is apparent -- plan considers
believe will save millions a year and create 500 new jobs. BT and an
American firm are in the running to form a partnership with the council
to provide services such as libraries, Pedro and benefit
payments, transferring council staff to the new partnership in the
process. -- services such as library services and pay roll.
would be against the majority of the council and a great swathe at
the general public. They have not only ignored us but ignored the
people. But is a dangerous thing to do for democracy. One couple from
Perranporth to be petition to more than 1,000 people. They say the
vast majority signed up. Were they surprised? No, they were not
surprised but they were extremely surprised that the executive has
the power were to do that, as was I. That is viewed with incredulity by
almost anyone, once you spell out what has happened. The fact but it
is legal is astonishing. It is not rocket science but if something
goes into privatises hands, whether it is part shared or not, companies
want to make a profit. If they do not make a profit, jobs will go,
places will be closed, and we may not have as many libraries or a non
stop shops or whatever they are going to take out to stare -- share
services. In Somerset, a joint venture do not go quite to plan.
This is a classic example of how not to do public procurement.
South West MP directors' anger at a company, South West One. It led to
a �2.1 million overspend this year alone. The they are not saving the
money they said and it is becoming obvious but it is a tissue of
fabrication. Cornwall Council says it is there were not all
partnerships have been successful and they have learnt not to make
that the mistakes. They are confident it will be a good deal
for the county. The us is an exciting opportunity to create new
business in Cornwall but is not seasonal, will create good jobs and
it will be written into contract, we are expecting 500 new jobs to be
created, as a minimum. The commitment will be written into the
contract, with penalties attached if the jobs are not created.
final decision to transfer council services to a new firm is due to be
made next month. Thanks to the petition, the issue is likely to be
debated before then. How much outsourcing does Plymouth
City Council do, for example? Are people in Cornwall right to be
scared? For gave me, they are next door neighbours and I should not
comment on private grief. Everybody out sources, or council steerage to
a lesser or greater extent. If you think about our. Social care, for
example, we buy in care from a range of providers. -- adult social
care. Outsourcing is not anything new. Were this is a departure is
the scale. It is the size and range of services being put out all in
one go. That is what has created the alarm for so many people in
Cornwall and within Cornwall Council. You were in local
government before you became an MEP. How is a bet these kinds of
outsourcing can supposedly saved money while at the same time create
500 jobs, how was it possible -- possible? It is economy of scale.
You can get real productivity gains by joining up what is called back
office function. Where it can lead to job growth in an area is that
you can find, if Plymouth was doing it, they might in fact be employing
people in Plymouth who are paying the benefit cheques in London. In
many cases, but is very beneficial for regions like the south-west,
where people want to live and work. The skill base, in many cases, is
there or is being built. Does that happen in Plymouth? We work in
partnership. There is an audit partnership between three
neighbouring authorities. And the authorities provide services to
each other to share costs and save money. This is different, because
this is bringing a one provider to do a number of... You would not do
it to this scale? The Cabinet are making this decision without
reference to anybody else. They are saying but is because they must. It
is not about mast, they could ask the council to participate and
share the blame. My information is, and councillors are saying they
have not seen figures, they have not been shown figures. How can
councillors avoid problems like that in Somerset, such as we showed
in the front, where the contract went wrong? -- in the film.
Councillors are members of the community, they are not necessarily
business people, they do not necessarily have the skills
themselves. What it is imperative they do is make sure they get the
advice. I do not have any detail on what is happening in Cornwall. I
would be surprised if the Cabinet had made that decision without
getting that level of advice. The Somerset issue is well known
throughout the country as having been a problem. Lessons have been
put known -- learnt. Lots and shared learning information has
been sent out. It does not always work. In Cornwall, been collections
have been heavily criticised, but was outsourced. Serco were
criticised, railway services were criticised. Why did the Tories
think privatisation is better? not think they do. It is not just
Conservative councils who are at source at all. Some of the most
vigorous councils who are at source are not conservative. It is a mixed
bag and it is not a party political issue, it is about combatants and
council level. Some councils are good, some are less good. We will
come back to you after the next topic.
The natural England has issued a licence to allow the culling of
badgers in West Somerset. It means up to 70% of badgers in that area
will be killed with the aim of preventing the spread of TB in
cattle. Pilot,s are also due in Gloucestershire, were some farmers
have voted to not allow becoming of badgers on their land. Some local
farmers try to do the same thing. It has been a tough year for this
former. He found out his herd had contracted TB at the worst possible
time. My wife died on 16th April and I went down on 17th April,
shattered. I did not have my best friend of 48 years with me, it was
awful. Bovine TB is a foreigner problem, but to go early in the
south-west, with 40% of heard tapping an instance of the disease
in 2010. Eco-trials will involve laying bait and shooting badgers at
night. -- the cull trials. There is debate as to whether this will stop
me -- the disease. It could cut instances of bovine TB by 16% but
there are questions about the scientific evidence. Trials are
planned for Costa Show and Somerset. This time could fall into the pilot
area and councillors are concerned. Were have had leaflets from
organisations who were protest and spent every night for six weeks in
the area with loudspeakers, musical instruments, trying to disrupt the
cull. This week Stephen and his fellow independent councillor put
forward a motion asking the council to ban Colling on its land, even
though the council owns very little and in the, Derry, like this car
park. -- very little land in the cull area. Badgers move about. The
council ended up voting to remain neutral, because the Conservative
leader argued there was not the expertise to make a judgment.
is a lot of information made available to us. I am not
sufficiently skilled to determine from that which is the best way to
deal with bovine tuberculosis. councils in Gloucestershire's pilot
area have voted against killing badgers on council owned land.
Others are angry that their area has not done the same. They were
not combatant? Are they confident to look at planning issues or
economic regeneration issues? Taunton Deane Borough Council will
write to the farming minister to Roger their concern. It will urge
the government to devote resources to finding a humane solution to the
programme -- problem of bovine TB. This cull is politically toxic,
that is why we are still having pilates. No one wants to be the
minister in charge of standing up in front of the TV cameras saying
they are going to kill 70% of Britain's Burgess. Would you say
this will run and run? It is a controversial issue. What we have
got here is, let's be clear, but cull is aimed at discovering
whether it is it reasonable to'-- 3 should. -- to shoot the badgers. It
is to find out if it is a reasonable way to do that. Will
protesters will be caught in crossfire? Protesters have done
everything they can do to stop it. They have been to the High Court.
They need to accept that all of the legal redress, all of the legal
Brits are now closed, and if they are irresponsible enough to start
banging drums and blowing whistles and lighting in darkness, when
people are trying to shoot badgers, there could be a terrible accident.
It has to be absolutely clear that it is the responsibility of those
people to refrain from that behaviour. The idea of shooting
badgers in car parks is totally wrong, isn't it? It is run anywhere,
to be honest. At this week's Labour conference we heard that the
science does not support this action anywhere. That is an opinion.
The science clearly is mixed. point is that there is a lot of the
farming community with the Conservative Party and they are
struggling at a local level. The science is not equivocal about that.
If we forget the science for the moment, I am interested in this
subject Ahmed being politically toxic. Labour had various trials
and never achieved anything. We did not kill the badgers and we are not
going to either. You ploughed �50 million into killing by just over
10 years but never did anything about it. A lot of people will find
this whole thing distasteful, to be honest, when you know that the
science is... They might also have said that Labour should not have
ploughed �50 million into killing? Let's focus on what is about to
happen rather than blaming us for what did not happen. Do you want
people running around the south- west with a shot guns, blowing
badgers up in car parks? I have to interrupt. To say that people will
be running around the area with a shot guns, it is not a shot on
trial. Nobody will be out with a shotgun. But would be unsuitable.
Yes, they will be shot, but not with a shot guns. They will not be
done roaming the area. The region - - the reason it is toxic is because
the lack of attempting -- attention to detail, the emotive language, it
is much more serious than that. Before we move on, an update from
Ann Widdecombe, who last week told us better-off pensioners like her
should not get the winter fuel allowance. One of our guests
suggested she give the money back. It turns out she already does. She
gives her an allowance to the Devon Community Foundation which last
winter helped 250 people who could not afford to keep themselves warm.
Now, 60 seconds. Overweight children should be given
Free School moves to improve their eating habits said the Totnes MP.
85% of children who are obese will become obese adults. It is time to
address it. Train passengers were told they
would have to wait even longer for improvements as the government's
tendering process went off the rails.
In Dorset, Virgin's plan to take over NHS services was questioned by
the mayor of Lyme Regis. We need to know what this will do for us
rather than for them. People living near a proposed
incinerator outside Ivybridge were upset by the Environment Agency's
support for the plans. The Devon parlays woman who was
banned from Twitter for her comments about student drinking was
backed by air can't serve her. -- backed by a counsellor.
A busy week. Let's let's get this issue of
giving obese children free school meals. This is something that
Totnes MP NDP is pushing for. Is it something you would support? --
Thomas MP and GP. For someone who has eaten all the pilots -- pies,
we would be better restoring that sports schools partnerships. Have
we to get proper p going again, that would be far more useful. -- P.
There is a link between obesity and poverty, so this could be an
educational programme? Be it sounds very top dance. -- it sounds very
top down. I know she is a GP but I do not like her social programmes.
In his this their nanny state? Ghosh, not often accused of that. I
actually have great respect for Sarah. She has expertise and I'm
listening to her. An idea around trying to help children make better
choices with what they eat is no different than an idea around try
to make the government -- trying to make adults more aware of food
labelling. Why not help children? It is how you do it, the devil is
in the detail. Surely children from wealthy families does not deserve
three means? Maybe they deserved a free meal if that is going to make
Andrew Neil and Martyn Oates with the latest political news, interviews and debate including Defence Secretary Philip Hammond from the Conservative Party Conference in Birmingham and Shadow Foreign Secretary Douglas Alexander.