04/11/2012 Sunday Politics South West


04/11/2012

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In the South West. Sarah Wollaston explains why she voted against the

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government on Europe. And calls for a new tax to control

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2067 seconds

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Coming upon the Sunday Politics in the south-west. Should there be a

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tax on second homes? We will hear from an MP who says yes because the

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sight of houses with the lights off is breaking his heart.

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For the next 20 minutes I am joined with the Conservative MP Sarah

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Wollaston and Labour councillor Darren Campbell. Welcome to the

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programme. Sarah was one of the MPs who rebelled against the government

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on the boat on the EU budget, which angered some of her Tory colleagues,

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and provoked heated exchanges in the House. Here is a flavour of

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what happened. The Conservative Party is united on

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Europe. We are all opposed to the increase in the Budget, and we

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would like to strengthen things. Can I just say, if the honourable

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lady goes into the division lobby said that it to that of the Prime

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Minister she is not helping him or the party. If this party hopes to

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be in government after the next general election it has to get a

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grip and starts supporting the Prime Minister.

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David Cameron is under a lot of pressure to make the coalition work,

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and you have undermined him on this issue. Don't you feel this might be

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slightly damaging? I have not undermined him, I am representing

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my constituents, and the clear message I get is we're taking...

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Torbay have taken 11% cuts in the form of a grant, 6% this year, do

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we have one -- want to hand all the savings to Europe? Brixham had a

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handout from Europe. Yes, but this is money we could be the

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distributing, we're talking a big difference. This debate is about

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asking you up to take note about how people feel in Britain, and

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people in Britain really do want them to make the same choices that

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people in my constituency are making. You said that the Tories

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are united on Europe, but how can you say you are delighted when you

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have got people like Sir Tony baldy who was part of the Major

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government, and says he knows too well the consequences of rebelling

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on fact like this. But this is an issue about the Budget. And what we

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are seeing is that, and I do not know any Tory MP who wants to get

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real with this. This motion was calling on the Government to take

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note of how we feel, but it is also more important that we were asking

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the European Union to take note, because they would have been

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watching, and it showed that a clear majority in parliament are

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saying to Europe, people in this country want you to do the same as

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we are asking of our constituents. Thank you. His David Cameron right?

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Back in July we were advocating cuts in the EU budget. It is not

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opportunism. It is recognition that Europe has got to play its part in

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cutting its budget at a time when budgets are going to be cut in huge

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amounts, affecting frontline services and end users. Europe has

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to play its role. Ed Miliband supported an increase in the EU

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budget under the last Labour government, and this change of mind

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was only on Monday. It is not a change of mind, it is a change of

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circumstance. The economy in 2005 was different. We have had a global

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crisis since then, and a double-dip recession. The reality is we have a

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European economy that is an very briefly, a bad start for the Chief

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Whip. If Andrew Mitchell was there, which

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are still have rebelled? I am very clear that I would have been

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representing my constituents on this, which would have made no

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difference to me who was the chief whip. It is unfortunate that so

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much rebate was handed back, 54% of a rebate was handed back in 2011,

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which voters are not happy about. We have to move on. Last week it

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was revealed -- revealed that Cornwall has the largest number of

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second homes in the country. We reported calls from Andrew George

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for a new planning rules to allow councils to control numbers.

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Another of the Liberal Democrat MPs is proposing a new tax on second

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A winter's night in cost and mackerel, and many homes remain in

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darkness. -- in Cawsand. A legacy of second-home ownership. You can

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see huge areas of places with no lights on, which hits the local

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economy. People might spend a bit of money when they are there, but

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when the RMT, they are not helping. A recent report found that 85% of

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people surveyed thought it was good for their area. 49% felt measure

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should be taken to reduce the negative impact of second home

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buying. What it does this say that we need to look into this a bit

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more. The issue of a second home is a very long spectrum, you can have

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a second home that is rented out for 40 or 50 weeks of the year,

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providing revenues for the local shot, the local pub, the local

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builder, but on the other end of this spectrum, you can have one

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that might only be used for two begins in you and the odd week.

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It is those relatively unused properties that he is targeting,

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and has proposed changing to planning laws so that local

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authorities could cap the number of second homes in the area. He is

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also suggesting changes to the tax system where second homes could be

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charged a higher rate of council tax, there is also a suggestion of

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a mansion tax on second homes which would raise money to provide

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affordable housing for local people. You could have a two layer pricing

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system in the county, you would have to oversee it and he feared it

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would be. If you succeeded in switching holiday properties into

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local housing, which I have my doubts about, you are undermining a

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critical part of the local economy so you trading houses for jobs.

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Classic Cottages in Helston employs 35 people and markets cottages. The

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company chairman Simon Tregoning is sceptical about political

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interference, concerned it may do more harm than good. A what are

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they trying to achieve? The youngsters that I employ are also

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looking for houses, so we see all shades of the argument.

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Tourism boss of so welcomed the debate. -- bosses welcomed the

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debate. You could not stop someone buying a second home, so we have to

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think this through a bit more. It is an area that is worth debate,

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but no one has a silver bullet to solve this where you gain the

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economic benefits but there are no negatives.

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Spending by second homeowners injects �150 million into

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Cornwall's economy each year. It provides a living for some, but

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others crave for communities they once had.

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To discuss this we are joined by a Lib Dem MP, Stephen Gilbert.

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Welcome to the programme. Do you support the idea of more taxation

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for second homeowners are? Absolutely. It is welcome that the

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coalition government has removed the discount that second-home

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owners were able to benefit from, something we did not see from

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Labour and 13 years. We need to see that -- Major that local

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authorities have the powers to set a limit to the number of second

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homes in a particular area. If you go to some communities in Cornwall,

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you will find it up to half of the residences and empty for up to nine

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months of the year, only used during the summer. That really does

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have an impact in terms of local businesses, schools, and an impact

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that has a price to pay in the local economy. How much more should

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taken -- second homeowners pay? That is an issue that can be

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debated. Or we are now unable to charge 100% of council tax, but I

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would be keen to go to 200%, with the proviso that the local

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authority has powers to limit the numbers. Limit the number of second

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homes? How would they do that? Those communities have less money

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going around them. Stephen, sorry to interrupt you. How would local

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authorities limit the number of second homes? If you were selling a

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house that was your prime residents, do you think you should not be

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allowed to sell it to a second home or no? The proposal we have put

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forward is that local authorities should be given powers through the

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planning system to enable people wanting to purchase a second home

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to apply through the planning process for that. That way, local

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communities who want to increase the number of second homes will be

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able to do so, and those at saturation will have the power to

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prevent it. I am going to be that now to say. What do you make about

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what he is saying, that he could limit the number of second homes?

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There are areas where it is out of bounds. Some areas have 40% of

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second home-ownership, which is out of balance. Particularly when

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people do not use them for the majority of the here and they do

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not let them out. The problem is, any mechanism in place, there could

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be consequences to that. If we ask people to pay 150% of council tax,

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what would stop them saying it is the main residence? We also have to

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remember that many of these people might be second homeowners

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initially, and they contribute a huge amount of their community.

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Many people who contribute the most to their community first introduced

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-- were first introduced by being a second homeowner, so they might

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spend more time there permanently. What do you say to that? She is

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quite right to suggest we would need to think carefully about the

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mechanism to introduce a restriction on the number of second

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homes, but it is a power that local communities and at saturation point,

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they want powers to limit the number of. Darren Powell, do you

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support this issue? I am in favour of doing what we can to reduce the

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number of second homes because there is such an impact on the

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local housing stock, and the ability for young people to stay

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within the communities. What about the example of some are not allowed

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to sell their house to a second homeowner, will that not lead to

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localise downturn in the housing market and individual homeowners

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losing a lot of money? I do not think you would be able to regulate

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it. You could listed as a primary residence, and your actual London

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or Manchester home could be your secondary residence because it is

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this -- if it is a discretionary power, not all authorities will

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adopt it because it is only in regions like ours with it is a big

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problem. A lot more to discuss before legislation.

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Thank you. The region's pubs are still closing at an alarming rate,

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and this week, several south-west MPs backed calls for government

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intervention. They want ministers to scrap the beer duty escalator

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which they say has an unfair impact on the local. They say that since

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the tax was introduced four years ago it has put 60p on to the

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average pint of beer. Earlier this year, we filmed Wendy,

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who was at the start of an ambitious project to turn a

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derelict pub into a vibrant business. We have come back, and it

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seems that despite all the hard work, trade are struggling. She has

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recently had to lay off her chef to save money, and she has had to step

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in to fill the gap. In the summer it was just worse than a normal

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winter. In terms of the weather? Yes, people were not coming out. We

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have just had to lay off the chef, because we could not afford them

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and keep the roof over our heads. She is not alone. According to the

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industry, beer sales are down 5% and pub closures are up 50%.

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Traders say the beer duty escalator was partly to blame. The tax was

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introduced in 2008, under Labour. It goes up by inflation plus 2%

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every year. That means a pint costs 60 ends more than it did four years

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ago. -- 60p. This week MPs called for the government to review the

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tax. But there are those who think that

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keeping the price of alcohol high is not necessarily a bad thing.

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would call for the government giving benefits to pubs to sell

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soft drinks more cheaply, serve hot food throughout the day and give

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information about the harm caused by alcohol. But we do not know that

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it should be by taking away the duty tax escalator. They are

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hitting an industry which is finding it very hard, and I think

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they play on the fact that there is a lot of harm done by alcohol. But

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there are lots of good things done. A pint of beer in a pub is

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relaxation. Why keep aiming at thing that -- things that people

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enjoy? MPs voted in favour of the review of the tax before the Budget,

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but the out -- outcome of the vote has no cold on the Government. The

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Health Minister did say that he was listening, and they will introduce

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a range of measures to help the pubs.

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You have campaign such -- tirelessly about alcohol

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consumption, and beer consumption is now going down, maybe as a

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result of the duty. Are you pleased? To be honest, I was at the

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debate because I do support pubs, and I met with several publican's

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before the vote. And I am very concerned about the closures of a

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rural pubs, which are at the heart of the community, and for me the

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issue is the difference between the price of the very cheap alcohol

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causing harm in supermarkets, which is the area we should be tackling,

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I do not think there is an issue with the price of beer and a pub.

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It is already relatively very high. So the beer escalator duty should

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be scrapped? I would agree that we need a review. We need to get rid

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of the ultra cheap alcohol which is causing the problems. It is the

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shift to home drinking that is the problem.

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Labour introduced this policy in 2008. We have heard that beer has

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gone up 60p a pint since then. This will continue to rise. Is now a

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good time to say enough is enough? I think we need to look at the

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consequences of having the escalator. We heard in the film

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about the number of pubs closing, which is 60 a week across the

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nation. My local pub closed a few months ago, and I know the impact

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it has had on the community. It is absolutely right, as someone who

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represents a town centre, I see the consequences of the high strings

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ladder that you can buy so cheaply, on antisocial behaviour. Was the

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duty escalator one of Gordon Brown's money spinner has? You have

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got to consider economic budgets that were laid down in 2008 which

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was totally different than they are now.

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Stephen, you took part in the debate, and called for it to be

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scrapped. Where do you see the shortfall in revenue coming from a

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fit his scrubs? The important thing is when you get to the top of the

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escalator it is time to step off, and we see that the beer duty

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escalator is having an impact in terms of local businesses, and

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actually if we enable them to thrive, we will be able to collect

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more revenue than if we continue to penalise them by keeping the

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escalated in place. OK, it is now time for the regular

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round-up of the political be. Wind turbine policy was blowing in

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all directions. The conservative Energy Minister said enough was

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enough, but the Lib Dems say he was just generating confusion. He is

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talking from a personal perspective. No, he is the Energy Minister!

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it is not go a month policy. Councillors might get control of

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budgets currently set in Whitehall. There has been a big rise in fly-

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tipping. Offences in Exeter doubled in two years. More people are happy

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to reporter at the ease days. Disappointment in Dorset, the

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Department for Transport says it would not pay �2 million to repair

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the Beaminster tunnel. And some grassroots politics in

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North Devon, where residents rolled up their sleeves to round up a herd

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of feral goats. They have come back over and gone back where they

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started, so I think we're going to have to reorganise and have another

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That was the round-up of the week. Let us look at the wind turbine row.

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It seems to show that the coalition is in disarray. Do you believe it

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was a responsible for John Hayes to make these remarks signalling an

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end to offshore wind turbines without consulting the government?

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It is not a responsible because I have seen people in my constituency

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surgeries who are in favour of environmental policies, but this

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morning I saw 10 people in the surgery who have just had a wind

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turbine built within 250 metres of their homes, and the person getting

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all the subsidies does not live anywhere near it. If you are having

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a loss of amenity because of it, you should have some degree of

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compensation order your community should benefit from it. I welcome

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the review that has been launched, the consultation on how we get the

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right benefits to communities. Stephen, you work closely with the

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energy secretary, was he fuming about this? No, not at all. What

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John was setting out was his view about where the debate should go

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back after the government has set out its target. We're at 6% at the

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moment and we have a fair distance to go, if we're going to make

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obligations under climate change and reduce the amount of carbon

:56:40.:56:50.
:56:50.:56:51.

vomiting. -- the knitting. When we are looking at the onshore power

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were, it is important we have people getting benefit from wind

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turbines, which is why the Government are consulting. But the

:56:59.:57:09.
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industry says it is confuse about policy. The policy is clear. It is

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that one third of energy generation will come from renewables by 2020.

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John's comments will be seen after the debate of 2020. Thank you for

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joining us. Before we go, we have to ask you about your role in Costa

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Coffee. It has pulled out his bed to open in Totnes. You were very

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against them opening. How does that work, with the Tory policy being

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very free-market? I was never against them, the other great

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British company paying all their tax, it was about saying we as

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appropriate to? In Totnes, we have a strong tradition of independence

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and it is about keeping money in the local economy, the local

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sustainable supplies, and we wanted Costa Coffee to visit the town and

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say, look at the impact this would have, and a really strong feeling

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was that we did not want a cloned high street. One of the reasons

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people were coming to Totnes is because there is a different offer

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there, and something you can end up destroying that. Were you surprised

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that a Tory was supporting something which was not free

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market? Of course not. Because Sarah is doing what an MP is doing

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to represent her business and interests. It is to Costa Coffee's

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credit that they took notice of the community and that the number of

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