11/11/2012 Sunday Politics South West

In the South West, the biggest crime rise in England and Wales

sets the scene for the election of Devon and Cornwall's first Police

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2149 seconds

Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in the South West. Today

we are talking about the brave new world in policing which begins on

Thursday when we collect our first Police and Crime Commissioners. We

will be hearing for from the candidates for the top job in Devon

and Cornwall, and hearing from some guests.

Tamsin Melville has been looking at the major changes about take place.

When the looters hit Branscombe Beach in Devon after the Napoli ran

aground, it was the then Chief Constable of Devon & Cornwall

Police who stepped up to defend it allegations of ineptitude. If we

find that we are -- if we find that they are selling it, we will deal

with that through the theft Act. For a decade it has been the chief

who is the public face of the force, but that is about to change.

Do most important way we are restoring the link between the

police and the public is through the election of Police and Crime

Commissioners. The new commissioners will replace

police authorities. Seen here cavorting to put up the police part

of council tax, Devon and Cornwall authority has not often been in the

headlines. Have you heard of the Police Authority? A I have not.

do you think it makes the funding decisions? Or I have no idea.

you ever heard of the police authority. I have not.

A made up of local councillors, the police authorities on its way out,

with its powers going to the new commissioners.

The majority of people in Camborne are not aware of the role the

Police Authority plays in setting the force's budget. The Government

hopes that giving this power to an elected Commissioner will give

people more of a say. The chief constable will still run

the force, but it is the PCC's job to hold them to account. He or she

will be finalised the force budget and have the powers to hire and

fire chief constables. They will also hold the purse strings for

victims services. Those who represent them are worried. My main

concern is that whoever gets elected boards a fair commissioning

process in place, so that the money is allocated in a transparent way.

In the Commissioner is holding the chief constable to account, who

keeps an eye on the Commissioner? Mike Firbank is the rector of

Camborne. He says it is not clear yet how much influence it has.

hope the panel will have a really good relationship with their

Commissioner, and be able to support them whilst also asking

difficult and challenging commission -- questions. But all we

can do is see where this all Leeds. In it is a big job for weather gets

it, and with question marks of a public engagement, they are fears

of a how much of a mandate the Police and Crime Commissioner will

really have. By I am joined by Jim Webster, a

former police chief here in Plymouth, and by a political

analyst Adrian Lee. Jim, you had a lot to do with the

old Police Authority. How much of the difference is this new role

likely to have? For the first couple of years we could be in a

phoney war. I think we will find that the commissioner will come in,

have some ideas, but quite quickly find that they cannot change things

quickly. There are budgets already set, and actually for the average

police officer on the street this will not affect them too much.

Government insists that he or she will not interfere, but a Home

Office website says they will be responsible for everything from

CCTV and graffiti to tackling in gangs and drug dealing. That sounds

pretty hard core staff. I can't imagine them getting their hands to

dirty with that. If you look at their first 100 day plan, it is

almost impossible. The box that they are going to set the budget,

it is not going to happen. The police will vote at the policing

plan, and offer it to the commissioner. The commissioner will

sign it off. But the Budget will be said. There is no way they will

step in... Should people vote than in any case? I think it is good to

vote, but it is quite useful that the prospective low turnout divided

over ten candidates means quite a no mandate, and I would not expect

such a person to make too much of an impact too early on. Adrian,

what is your view? The powers are on the face of it really a rather

significant. But they will actually be considerably constrained, not

only by budgetary factors in terms of those factors restricting

manoeuvre, but also by the police and crime come -- Police and Crime

Panel. The panel member did not seem particularly confident. He is

one of the Coptic independence. rest of the panel on councillors

drawn from across Devon and Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly,

including the mayor of Torbay and the leader of Devon County Council.

Are you telling me that despite everything the Government is saying,

and the time and money being spent on this, not much is going to

change? Guthrie bodies that have to work together to make it work. --

there are three bodies. The police constable, the Police and Crime

Commissioner and the Police and Crime Panel. With a Home Secretary

sitting somewhere in the background. Jim, is this a waste of time?

quite different in London - you have their Police and Crime

Commissioner, who is the mayor. He has access to the budget of

Transport for London, the fire brigade, so he can bring to bear

lots of budgets outside policing. Inside the -- in the PCC here, he

or she will have access to the police budget and that is basically

it. So it is hard to think they will make a huge difference.

There are no fewer than ten candidates standing for the new job

but in Devon and Cornwall. We couldn't fit them all into the

studio but we caught up with all of them to ask why we should vote for

them. I have got the experience, their

commitment, the drive, the energy. I have run my own business for

almost 20 years I am fully committed to maintaining as many of

our powers in this country as possible. We should not be

contributing �50 million a day to the European Union, but we should

take it back and stop the cuts in Devon & Cornwall Police. As a

former police officer I have experience of policing. I have

dealt with the members of the public who deserve and pay for a

better police force. So I think I am the candidate with the most

experience in dealing with members of the public, which is what the

PCC is about. People should vote for me because this job is all

about people, and joining up the police and its community. I have

had 33 years in the Royal Navy Blair I ran big organisations, I

went into industry and then I worked for the specialist youth

organisation. I have been a duty solicitor for 20 year is. I know

where we can make efficiencies. I am generally -- genuinely

independent. I am not a council- owned one minute for a party, then

one minute independent. I want this to happen. I am focused on

preventing crime before it happens. I am a professional, not a

politician, and I am truly committed to working for the people

of Devon and Cornwall. I'm used to working with multi million pound

budgets. In these challenging times, we are going to need partners to

come to the table to deliver multi- agency services. The police cannot

work in isolation, so we need to invest in partnership to release

police to do what they do best, police our streets. I was the roast

recent chairman of the police authority. -- most recent. I am a

people person, I want to get the principles of looking after people

established even better. A I am a local businessman, a former Royal

Marine of 13 years' service. I want to hold the chief constable and

senior officers to account for their actions and reactions. Once

word sums it up - experience. I have been the chairman of the

police authority, and served on the national body for police

authorities. I have been in public service for a long time as leader

of North Devon Council. Be pushing vote for me because I'm going to

deal with the street crime. We have a problem with alcohol-related

crime. We have had 20,000 incidence of violent crime in the past year

here in Devon and Cornwall. That is an increase of 10% in the level of

violent crime. I will introduce zero-tolerance policing to deal

with that. We cannot go on like this, it is not fair on our young

people, the young -- largest victims of crime.

If you're watching in Dorset or Somerset, you can see your local

BBC website. Four candidates in Avon and Somerset.

The far South West is not seen as a hotbed of lawmen of -- enormous

mess, but the candidate for that region is facing at a worrying

challenged. Murray and Amanda runs a

hairdressing salon in Tevez them. A few weeks ago, burglars smashed a

window and took their say. I was devastated. We were not cut --

covered by insurance, so me and Amanda lost that money.

By Dobyn there has been a spate of burglaries in the last few weeks.

photography shop local to ask, are letting Agents, a couple of

hairdressers, a couple of charity shops. None of us are safe. We

would like to see a few more police officers, more CCTV.

But latest figures show a decrease in crime of 6% across England and

Wales. But for Forces show an increase - Northamptonshire, Essex,

North Wales and Devon and Cornwall, which is up by 7%. Our region has

by far the largest increase in crime.

The figures in Devon and Cornwall show that burglary is up by 16%,

robbery is up by 19%, and violent crime by 22%.

Last year we had an increase. This year we have reverse that trend by

working with our partners in health and education. My commitment is

that we will continue to reduce crime of role. The Police

Federation believes the increase in crime it is as a direct result of

Government cuts. Hundreds of police officers marched on London earlier

this year to protest. Devon & Cornwall Police plan to cut 700

officers by 2015 as part of plans to save �51 million. In a recent

report by Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary, they

agreed that Devon and Cornwall is one of five forces particularly

affected by police cuts, but whilst crime rose here, the other four all

achieved cuts in crime, with the biggest decrease been seen in Brent

-- Gwent. A police here failing? They have

their fair share of challenges - the first is size. Devon and

Cornwall makes up the biggest police force area in England and

Wales. The second challenge is tourism, which swells the

population. Then there is the on going pop -- problem of sufficient

funding. Devon and Cornwall have faced

severe cuts, and inevitably that has had an impact on front line

policing more than they would probably want it to.

The University of Exeter surveyed more than 2000 people. They ask if

people would pay an extra �50 tax each year it bought more police on

the streets. 42% of respondents in the South West were willing to pay

�50 a year extra, compared to 29% were opposed.

Marie is one of those who does not want to pay more. She once more

police on the streets, but things she pays enough already. -- she

once more police. I am joined by a criminologist at

Exeter University. Jim Webster, the combination of

these crime figures and this report from Her Majesty's Inspectorate of

Constabulary does not reflect well on Devon & Cornwall Police.

Police crime figures are always challenging. They are always prone

to political interpretations. I would also like to say that the

long-term trend for Devon and Cornwall has been down a... We have

not got the official Office of National Statistics figures. Go I'm

going up at any problem -- time is a problem. But you get larger

percentage swings in Devon and Cornwall. Bernice Crime stats are

Always Ready difficult league -- easily misinterpreted. But the

other forces identified by the Her Majesty's Inspectorate of

Constabulary have all achieved reductions. Clent has the biggest

reduction in the country. -- Gwent. A I know from my time in the force,

you can look at all sorts of statistics to prove all kinds of

all arguments. You are the expert on this. No Biddy is the expert!

But how do we make some sense of it? Jin is right, if you look at

the figures overall, Devon and Cornwall has a low base, there has

been a decline in crime stats. Week are having a serious blip. More

idea think that is happening? Other authorities with severe police cuts

have reduced crime. It could quite easily be that we have been hit by

travelling criminals. There has been Crime tourism in the way that

there is ordinary tourism. The manpower figures do not allow for

that sort of thing when it hits you. There have been a burglary and

pickpocketing gangs moving across the South and they have gone back

out of the country, coming from France and Belgium for example.

Research will tell us what happened about ten years too late... We will

come back to both of you long before that, but now we talk to the

candidates. We asked them whether Devon and Cornwall should have more

frontline officers and if so how they would provide them.

Devon and Cornwall force needs a more visible policing presence. I

would for Chris -- focus on PCS Os. They are friendly, and get to know

the people in the streets. They would be my focus for recruitment.

Police officers in the street have two effects, they reassure the

public and they did their criminals. I have seen criminals and talked to

them, and visible patrols are definitely a deterrent to those

criminals. Rover gets this job as PCC has to put that down as and one

of his or her priorities in insuring that we see more police

constables, PCSO has and specials out on the streets. Go in an ideal

world we would like more frontline police officers, but we know these

are challenging times. 81% of the budget is on staffing at the moment,

and we know that the Government is cutting 20% of that. So that is

going to be difficult. We are going to have to be much more creative

about how we release police officers so that they can patrol on

the front line. We have to relax the cuts we are currently suffering.

When I was chairman of the police authority are increased the number

of officers, we did that with good evidence to support that. We cannot

allow the slide to go all the way back, and if elected my first

priority will be to stop the slide and see how we can sustainably

resource increasing police officer numbers again. We have to make

better use of the ones that we have got, and cut down bureaucracy and

get officers back on the beat. Have independent, dedicated teams doing

the interviewing. Encourage Specials and neighbourhood watch.

The public want to get involved, and that is a way of helping them

do it. The policy of the UK Independence Party is to get as

many frontline police as possible working around Devon and Cornwall.

The question we have to face up with his these cuts that are

looming. Winner to be realistic and realise that there may well be cuts

and they may affect front line policing, no matter how much any of

us want to stop it. We want more frontline officers, but we have to

be realistic, we have to work with the cuts. We need to argue for a

better slice of the funding cake for Devon and Cornwall, and also of

said police cuts through more Special Constables, more police

volunteering, to get more police out on the streets. Devon &

Cornwall Police need more frontline officers. When I was a member of

the police authority, I voted for an increase in funding to allow the

number of officers to increase to 3,500. I think that is a better

figure. I regret the fact that the Government is now making cuts, and

I would want to redress the imbalance in the number of officers.

We need more officers in the front line. We have 3,300 presently

holding warrant cards. Too many are used doing secondary tasks, and red

tape is keeping them in the offices. But the stations are accessed by

appointment only. We need to get these officers in a frontline role,

interacting with the community they serve. I prefer that term local

policing, rather than front line policing. We cannot cut local

policing, we have to find ways and means of maintaining that. We can

do that for the next two years. Some of the cuts so far have been

quite draconian. Thereafter, if the Government persists in its

disgraceful behaviour, we are falling off a cliff. We have to

hold on to our front line policing. How much of this is bound to

frontline officers? We are getting obsessed with it. The acting chief

put his finger on what is required, and I am disappointed not to have

heard the candidates' strategy for working with education, health,

social workers, probation. The police cannot cope on their own,

and that is the criticism that be Inspectorate of Constabulary made

of the Devon and Cornwall -- Devon and Cornwall strategy -- Devon and

Cornwall strategy. Officers on the beat, the research shows that

officers have a slight effect on deterring crime, but there is no

difference between one officers on the beat and two of three more. The

impact is slight and it does not grow with the number of officers.

him, what about the idea of moving the balance between police officers

and community support officers? candidates' use of valid and

interesting, but police is for more than patrolling. We also want to

have detectives investigating rape, murder, have paedophiles so veiled

and arrested. -- serve failed. I would hope that when the candidates

or in post, after a year or two of learning the role, they have a more

visionary approach to what they can do. Maybe looking at structures, a

amalgamations, just thinking about more police on the streets will not

make savings or solve crime. There is more candidate information