13/01/2013 Sunday Politics South West


13/01/2013

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And in the South West: A government promise to tackle the crisis in

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care for the elderly. But the Prime Minister still isn't saying exactly

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2549 seconds

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Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in the South West.

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And for I am joined by Neil Parish, the Conservative MP for Tiverton

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and Honiton and Jude Robinson, who sits in solitary splendour as

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Cornwall's only Labour councillor. Until this year's elections at

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least. Welcome back to both of you. This week the Planning Minister

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admitted he is happy to bribe councils to build houses on

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greenfield sites. And if it turns out they are above bribery, it is

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clear he is happy to force them. they build more houses, which will

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help their children have somewhere to grow up, they will get some

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money that they can then spend on something for the community. If

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they get a few hundred �1,000, they can open up local parks and open up

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a community park. If you get them at an incentive, they are more

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likely to approve more development. The minister is being called the

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terror of Middle England. What do you make of this? We have to give

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people a choice. If we can encourage them to take some

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development in the little villages where some properties would be most

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acceptable, the idea is to encourage them to go for it. We

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have got people always objecting at the moment. By at the government

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will take away the local discretion. But the whole idea is to... It is

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better off being a straight forward and going for something that you

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want to see happen rather than force something. But when the

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Conservatives were in opposition, he went on about how Labour were

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forcing houses on people and you are essentially doing the same

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thing. If the local authorities do not come up with a number you think

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is a bright... I still think there are villages that could do with

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some houses and if we can get people to agree with them it would

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be much better if they go for it. We have to give people incentives.

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People always say they want affordable homes until we want to

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put them in a particular spot. They have to be given encouragement.

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Jude, are you a plodding them for getting on with what you did not?

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You were effectively doing this with your strategies. We asked the

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Government to come up with target areas. What we have not done is

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what the Conservative government is doing, giving the power to

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developers to say we're the Houses will go, by -- to say where the

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houses will go, by developing a framework. There is a great unease

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about the the countryside as people see it. The people who really need

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the houses are not the people who are getting them. How do you make

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houses really affordable? We keep going around endless loop of

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affordable housing, and actually, people who really need housing

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cannot afford it at all. Affordable homes have to be properties to rent

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more than to buy, because they are only affordable once. I think we

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can have these schemes and I am working on that. We will have to

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leave that for now. For years, governments have been saying that

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something must be done to help the elderly pay for long-term care, and

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on Monday, David Cameron said it again, to the December event of

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those who had he would say how and when he might actually tackle the

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problem. -- to the disappointment. No one knows what had they will be

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dealt when they reach old age. These people live in shared housing.

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84-year-old Barbara still lives independently, but she is worried

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about the financial impact if she needs to go into care. Light most

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people, we have worked -- like most people, we have worked very hard

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for our property, and to relinquish the whole of that property for my

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care, when other people who have not worked and have not contributed

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at all to society, I do not feel that we should be penalised for

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working. That is what we feel, we are being penalised. Barbara's is

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not a new problem. 16 years ago, the new Prime Minister set out his

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vision for children of the future. I do not want them brought up in a

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country with the only way they can get long-term care is to sell their

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homes. But the nettle has still not been grasped. The Conservative

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government asked for some answers, but hope for detailed commitment

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from the Prime Minister were dashed this week. We were certainly hoping

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for more detail this week, so we are a disappointment that the

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Government did not choose to set out... A set out some things are

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but we wanted to see detail at this stage. Currently, an elderly person

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who has �21,000 in assets, the council will pay for their care.

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More than a quarter of the people who are over 65 are expected to

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spend more than �50,000 on care. A report has said that the current

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system is confusing, unfair and unsustainable. It suggests setting

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a carer bill limit at under �35,000, and recommends that the asset

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threshold is raised to one added �1,000. This comes with an

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estimated �1.7 billion price tag. - - raised to �100,000. Social care

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is not free. It is something that is means tested in a very mean way.

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We need to find a way of assuring people. There were some proposals,

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but we have to find a way of paying for them. That is why I think the

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winter fuel allowance is the right candidate. It has been rumoured

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that the Treasury is toying with setting the maximum amount that

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someone can pay for care at �70,000, not including accommodation costs.

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Some analysts say that it is hardly worth doing. This man found that a

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string of care homes and says that waiting around is not an option.

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The country has got to find a way of delivering more money into the

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sector. Some of it will come from products that the financial

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authorities will provide. But whatever happens, we need more.

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More than one in five people in the South West is over 65 and that

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figure is rising. For now, the portion of assets the government is

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prepared to protect is unclear. Was it right to say that the battle has

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not been grasped? We know everybody thinks something needs to be done.

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The it is affordability of the whole thing, that of the argument.

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I think that people who have worked hard to keep their homes, I think

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what we have got to do, we are putting forward for... By 2015

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people should not be able -- should not have to sell their homes in

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their lifetime. �7,000 has been rumoured. Whichever figure --

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�70,000 has been rumoured. Whichever figure you plug out of

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the air, it has got to help. People want their pension increases and

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winter fuel allowance. There has got to be a balance. In terms of

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the cap, the report was saying �35,000. The Government is talking

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about �75,000. That figure of �75,000 seems to be in the equation

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at the moment. But who knows? In the next spending round, we will

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actually look at the cost of all of this. We still have a large deficit

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to get on top of that we inherited from the last government and we

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cannot just increase it to cover the cost. Jude, Labour has been

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very critical of putting this off yet again. But you are not coming

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up with a solid commitment yourself. Actually, the Labour government did

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tackle some of the big issues, and the idea that people still have to

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sell their houses to pay for care is just wrong. Tony Blair said that

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a long time ago. That was sorted. People do not have to sell their

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houses. They can defer payment until after they die at the moment.

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That is nothing new. Before the last election, the Labour

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government did offer cross-party talks to but Liberal Democrats and

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Conservatives on how to Sir -- sort that out. Do you can -- you could

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say that the report has brought forward some brilliant ideas, but

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none of you want to commit. We saw what happened and the last election.

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There are they have to be cross party? -- in the last election.

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Does it have to be cross party? have to get through the period...

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That was a strong economy. That was a time when the money was there. We

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have got to find a solution. The situation is much more difficult.

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We agree on cross-party support, but if Labour wants to come forward

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with an idea, let us see it. We are not getting any policy from Labour.

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We are getting a lot of criticism but no real policy. Whether he

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speaks for David Cameron and Nick Clegg, I do not know! Probably not.

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Bobby -- probably not. This week the government announced

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a new pub ombudsman to police the relationship between pub companies

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and their tenants. MPs of all parties think tenants are currently

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getting a raw deal. The mood has pleased almost everybody, except

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the pub companies themselves. And Labour thinks the government needs

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to go much further. Around half of all pubs in the UK

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are owned by pub companies, large companies who leased pubs out to

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tenants to run as a business. Often, these landlords are contractually

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obliged to buy beer from that company and not from the open

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market. Campaigners say that this makes it extremely difficult for

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mallards. -- landlords. Last year, I was doing the cooking and the

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shopping and filling in the bar shifts whenever I could, but really

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enjoying it. Add some point, you have to realise that you cannot

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enjoy something that is not giving you a return. Until November,

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Russell ran this pub in Cornwall. In the 10 years he was here, he

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invested �70,000 of his end money. But the owners, it Punch Taverns, a

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make it difficult for him. The was paying nearly twice the price -- I

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was paying nearly twice the price for my stock from British Beer and

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Pub Association. -- from British Beer and Pub Association. -- from

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Punch Taverns. A new statutory code to regulate the relationship

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between public and Lloyds and publicans... It is hard to see how

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you can ensure a change. It is hard to ensure that their Lloyd's will

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be better off. The spirit of the Government's intentions... There

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has to be eight option for the tenants, because, as I have said

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earlier, the Ian Lloyd are taking - - the landlords er taking...

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think many will be bludgeoned by the pub companies into taking this

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option, so I think that the default should be that there is no tie

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unless they are opting for a tie. But that idea now seems hopelessly

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optimistic, given that even the optional arrangement was rejected

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by coalition MPs earlier this week. Consultation on the Government's

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proposals will begin in the spring. Meanwhile, any new measures will be

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too late for Russell. He is still trying to pay off debts from his

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time in the pub trade. The pub company mentioned in that

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report, Punch Taverns, says it works hard to resolve -- resolve

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problems with tenets. They say that most of their tenants are satisfied

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and the relationship with them. We are joined now by the chief

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executive of the British Beer and Pub Association, Brigid Simmonds.

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Welcome to the programme. This double whammy of high rents and

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high beer prices looks as if it gives the punters be poisonous

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cocktail. If you bought your pub, you would be investing between

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�500,000 and �1 million. This tie offers a low-cost way to run your

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own business at a relatively young age, and the deal is that you pay

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less in what we would call variable prices for a beer, and you would

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pay more for a variable prices. You pay for the fixed rate prices,

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which is indeed for the rent, that is how it works, and we would be

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mad to get rid of that system. We would close more pubs. What about

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the tenants that we heard in the package? He claims that his beer

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costs twice as much as it would otherwise if he had a free house.

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We put this to Punch Taverns and they have not disputed any of this.

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By cannot commence -- I cannot comment on that aspect, but there

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are benefits that he would have received from that or any other pub

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company. They do a lot of marketing and there is work around insurance

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and there could be free wi-fi. We are closing more pubs without the

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tide and with the tide. If you are tied, the pub company is doing a

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lot. We have introduced a system that we thought would work. We have

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had about 10 complaints on rent and other issues this year, which will

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be resolved as a result. We would have reserved -- preferred to go

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one of the self regulation system. We believe that system is working.

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I am not convinced that a different system will be better for publicans.

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The argument from the pub houses is that they are helping people get

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into the industry and that they are self-regulated and that is working.

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They would say that, wouldn't they? The pubs are closing regularly. The

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profits are being squeezed, and I think we are seeing that in all

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walks of life, corporate companies, big companies have the company --

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power and the abuse it. You have got to give some kind of mechanism

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for the small business people to stand up to that. We have seen a 42

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% increase in beer taxation in the last four years. The Labour Party

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put in a beer duty escalator which goes up at 2% plus inflation.

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Publicans are suffering because of government policies on beer

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taxation. No other industry could cope with that sort of increase.

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have got a lot of sympathy! And I think Neil has as well. Let's take

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a local example. There is a wonderful local brewery. It is a --

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it has a short term a brewery ties that keeps it open. They were

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probably only making a penny a pint in terms of the Act will be a.

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in terms of the actual beer. They do provide tenants with good income.

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But we must have an adjudicator to make sure that the companies do not

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take most of the income. You have to expect that the companies will

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have some return on their investment, but you have to make

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sure that the tenant has a reasonable living. If the pub

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companies are acting properly, they have nothing to fear from an

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adjudicator. I think we do actually need an adjudicator are likely to

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in the food industry, to make sure that the -- adjudicator likely to

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in the food industry, to make sure everything is balanced. Some people

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are saying that the tide is the problem. Most pubs are owned by pub

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companies and the tie is still there. It is still there, but you

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can expect that the company, if they invest in pubs, they have got

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to have a return on their income. We have to make sure that they do

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not abuse their position. We have to bring in the right balance.

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they could lose the tie. If those companies are overcharging for the

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beer, the tenant should be able to make us -- make representation.

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Where are you going to get the investment in, especially when you

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have a good, a local brewery that can produce good beer and do a good

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job for the tenant? Let's not cast everybody with the same brush.

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have got to leave it there. Brigid Simmonds, thank you for leading --

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joining us. Now for the 62nd round up of the political week. -- now

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for the round-up of the political weight in 60 seconds. Fire service

:03:55.:04:00.

cuts for Devon and Somerset. So X machines will be missing that are

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available -- six machines that we have now will be missing in the

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future. And no improvement in the business plan, and no idea how to

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stop this from happening again. this is not acceptable for local

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passengers. It has not acceptable for the long-term interest of Our -

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- it is not acceptable for the long-term interest of our country.

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A lot of people could be walking around with Type 2 diabetes and not

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knowing it. Car parks are being used as cash cows in some regions.

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I do not think it is realistic. They were not interested in

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Cornwall when they earn -- when they were in government and they

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are not interested doubt that they are in opposition. -- and they are

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not interested doubt that they are in opposition. That is the seat

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that you fought at the last election. Have you been cut adrift

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by Labour high command? Absolut the knot. To say that the Labour

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government forgot about -- absolutely not. To say that the

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Labour government forgot about Cornwall... For 48 seats, I think,

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at the last election. The Liberal Democrats are trying to play a game

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of being in a coalition and supporting the Tories and try to be

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in opposition in Cornwall. I agree that the Liberal Democrats squeezed

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the vote by claiming to voters that they would keep the Conservatives

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out. I do not think people will fall for that twice. Neil, I will

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not allow you to speculate! There has not been much about the

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flooding problem in Exeter. We will have to deal with that. Getting the

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flooding right and getting the railway put right and long-term

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future is key. Asset in the House of Commons that the West Country

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does not -- I sat in the House of Commons that the West Country does

:06:20.:06:24.

not stop in Bristol. We are fighting for more because I believe

:06:24.:06:28.

we have got to have a good railway that comes through the West Country,

:06:28.:06:34.

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