20/01/2013 Sunday Politics South West

In the South West: the issue dividing opinion in the

Conservative Party. The coalition's plans for gay marriage are

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2305 seconds

upsetting one of the region's Hello, I'm Lucie Fisher. Coming up

on the Sunday Politics and the South West, the issue dividing the

Tories. Not Europe put gay marriage. One senior Conservative says David

Cameron is alienating the grassroots -- but game marriage. I

am joined by Marcus Wood from the Torbay Conservative Party and Luke

Pollard. We stuck with horse burgers.

Investigations are under way to find out how Paul Smith found its

way into beefburgers in supermarkets -- we start with horse

burgers. The Exeter MP was not convinced that this would lead to

prosecutions. By Rhys is Secretary of State? Will these retailers be

prosecuted? And that was it not for later removed responsibility from

the independent Food Standards Authority to his department? Marcus,

were you surprised that you could be eating horsemeat? I think

everybody was. A catastrophic failure of control. The industry

should have very strong protection against that kind of thing, and

usually does. What about this point that Ben Bradshaw makes, certain

elements of protection have been removed from the third standards

agency, an independent consumer watchdog? It is his job to try to

drag the Government down over anything the Government does run.

It was any removed two years ago under the new government.

retailers themselves have far more stringent controls than the

Government have ever come up with. Normally they would protect

themselves because they are the front line of risk and there will

be prosecuted. It is a public relations disaster for any

supermarket. I don't think the Government need to be doing things,

I think the supermarket should be having inquiries and change their

systems. Luke, David Cameron thinks it will be OK, will it be OK?

if supermarkets have a decent system to ensure that if it's as

beefburgers on the package, it is beef. Moving from an independent

Food Standards Agency to allow it to be closer to the industry and to

political interference, I think it is not acceptable and it is right

that Benn picked this up and says is this the right system to protect

the Consumers', but they are getting beef and not horse? Were

must move on. Several councils in the region are beginning to

announce plans to put up council tax. It will not please Eric

Pickles. He has once again urged councils to go for a freeze but the

Conservative leader of Cornwall Council wants to increase the tax

by nearly 2%, a rise of almost 50 p per week.

We'll be hearing from him in a war moment but first this report from

Jenny Kumah. Councils are under extraordinary

financial pressure. After recent flooding in Devon, the county

council leaders have appealed for more government cash to help fund

repairs. November broke records of storms. And December broke

November's records. We have had a really bad hit. Torbay's

Conservative mayor says he has written to ministers to complain

about the amount of money they have got to spend next year. The

authority is looking at budget cuts of �10 million. Around 900 Tom

noble people could lose their free safety alarms. A controversial cut

back if it goes ahead. In some areas, councillors are making the

bold move of putting up council tax to help pay for services. Plymouth

residents could see a 2% rise, the maximum councillors can put it up

by without asking local people in a special vote. And the next

elections in Plymouth will not be held until May, 2014. In just a few

months' time, councillors here at Devon County Council will be facing

the electorate. I have come to find out from the leader just how likely

it is people put up council tax just before an election.

starting early in 2009, we have been able to put in a council tax

freeze and we would definitely be putting it as far as I am concerned.

Because we have the capacity to do it. We have restructured. That has

so does lots of money. Far too many of our local authority neighbours

did not start as early as we did and therefore they have not got the

capacity we have. Cross the border in Cornwall, elections are looming

here as well but with �30 million of savings needed, councillors are

not afraid to ask voters for more money. The Conservative-Independent

coalition cabinet want a 1.97 % council tax increase and if

approved by the council, that is an extra 47p per week for the average

home. Labour-led Exeter City Council is looking to raise council

tax by a whopping 4%. Exeter is one of seven south-west district that

is being given special dispensation to raise council tax above 2%

without a referendum. Putting the Labour leader in an unusual

position of thanking the Conservative minister. I am glad

the Government have given us an opportunity to look after low

costing councils. I hope they do it again. In cash-strapped West Devon,

the Conservative leader is not so pleased with the Government.

Effectively we lost something like �640,000 and you set that against

our net budget of 7.5 million, that is quite a major impact whereas we

were expecting to get considerably more this year. West Devon's leader

has not yet said whether tax will go up here but it was one of two

south-west councils that put it up last year. And he warns that some

services could be cut back if they do not do it again.

We are joined from Truro now by the Conservative leader of Cornwall

Council, Jim Currie. Welcome. Can you confirm for us that Cornwall

Council is proposing to put up council tax? Yes, that is a

recommendation from the Cabinet at the moment and obviously it has a

complete process yet to go through. What is your personal position on

it? I am proposing to put it up. Why is that? Because you're going

against Conservative Party policy here. I knew a Conservative

yourself. Yes, I am and against high council tax as well. We find

ourselves in the position. We went very early if not the earliest, to

achieve the position we are in and we put forward a balanced budget

which, if it goes as the Cabinet proposes it will not, this year,

involve cuts in services. leader of Devon council, we heard

in the peace there, saying that Cornwall has not been careful

enough with its money. He believes a Devon has been far more careful

and as a result does not have to put up council tax. He is taking a

gamble with that. I would not take that gamble. The risks we have with

our budget are quite off the scale at the moment and I consider them

to be unacceptable. At the end of the two years for which we have

balanced the budget, we have a starting point of the deficit of

�47 million, not of our making. will interrupt there. Just to bring

in Marcus to the debate. Is Jim Currie correct, that he cannot make

cuts to council tax, you must increase it? I cannot speak for him,

he has been elected to do what he must do. And I feel strongly that

when you have been saying for about four years that there will be

painful choices to make and we have to make the painful decisions as

elected politicians, I think it is frustrating when people then do not

make those painful decisions. You cannot work with less money without

making some cuts and a lot of councils - and I cannot speak for

Cornwall - have put that off. You are then asking the public to pay

and when you stood to be elected on a particular issue and say you will

not put taxes up. What things can be cut then? In Torbay, your area,

they are looking at cutting back on things like lifelines for bomb of

all people, 900 of them. Is that a good cat -- for vulnerable people,

a good cut? No cuts are good, you have to make difficult decisions.

Is that something you would recommend for Jim Currie? Putting

the tax up is always the easy option, and ask the public to pay

more but the fact is the public have not got money to pay because

they are being stretched by everything going up. Jim, you are

taking the easy option here and Marcus is correct that in your

particular area, a St Ives constituency has got the lowest

wages per week in the whole of the country. Is it fair for them to

find more money for council tax? do not see why a local government

should be singled out for this particular kind of treatment. There

are many aspects of society at the moment where increases are being

allowed but in our case, despite the fact that the first year we

saved �86 million from our budget, this year, 41 million, next year,

30 million in this Budget. Actually it was 24 but we have been asked

for more from central government in the meantime and by the end of the

period, we will be in a position where we cannot cope. All right, so

let's say to Luke, that Labour were too generous. The reason we are

finding difficulty in making cuts the because there was too much

money awarded to local councils under Labour. I do not think that

is the case. There are vital public services, perhaps in the lifelines

which these old people have and that is one example of many

services that local government provide an cuts that the Tory lead

government of pushing down on local government across the West Country

means that you are now having to take unpleasant choices between

cutting services for the most ball noble in society or putting council

tax up. What would you stand by? Labour-led councils will put

council tax up, or are proposing to. You need to balance at how

efficiently you can deliver services and how efficiency savings

are being made for vital public services for adults social care,

for filling in port holes, for getting people back into work and

you need to have a choice -- into potholes. They are deciding to cut

hard on local financing than perhaps they are choosing, they are

choosing to make sure the vulnerable suffer the worst...

will have to stop you there. We will move on. Campaigners against

gay marriage have been hitting the streets of Cornwall asking people

to write to MPs and targeting the Tories in particular and perhaps

with good reason, Giles Chichester was one of several Conservatives in

the region who do not like plans for equal marriage and he says

David Cameron is alienating the grass roots.

Last weekend, hundreds of thousands of people from across France

rallied in Paris against their Government's plans to legalise

same-sex marriage. Meanwhile in Cornwall, the Coalition for

Marriage has been leafleting people about Downing Street's plans to do

something similar. The Government wants to rewrite the meaning of

marriage but to change the definition of an institution around

for thousands of years certainly is not easy and it is splitting the

views of the general public. Even politicians themselves. I am

disappointed that David Cameron - and I think it is personal - has

chosen to take this initiative. It was not in the manifesto, there is

no great call for it. I support equal rights for gay couples, that

has been legislated against. It is not broke, why fix it? Thousands of

signatures against a proposed redefinition was taken to Downing

Street and Giles Chichester says he has had a strong response from

constituents and members of the party against David Cameron's

proposals. A almost without exception, they say why is he doing

it? There is no call for it. A has enough problems to tackle without a

big one like this. This week, the Sunday Politics asked all 14

Conservative MPs were they sit on gay marriage and only two were

clear in their support for the plans. Five of them expressed

strong views against the plan. The position of the remaining seven

Conservative MPs remains unclear. The Coalition for marriages asking

people in Cornwall's and stir -- Conservative constituencies to

write to their MPs but Sarah Newton believes she is being

misrepresented. The impression is giving that it is given a lot of my

constituents that actually I am endorsing their campaign. The UK

Independence Party is hoping to poach disillusioned Tory voters

with its clear opposition to gay marriage. The issue is so important

it is said to have cost the leader of its youth section his job after

he spoke out in favour of gay marriage. At pushing for gay

marriage which is something I am a big supporter of, it is one of the

few things that I think this government is doing right. I think

it is a good thing. I have no problem with him being a supporter

of gay marriage but as a spokesman of the party, we did ask him to

stay within representing party policy and on a number of issues,

of which gay marriage was one, that wasn't happening. The Bishop of

Exeter has been clear about his opposition to gay marriage.

proposals as they stand have many unforeseen legal and constitutional

consequences which the Government have not thought through. By hear

more people saying slowdown -- Ali hear more people. We need to do

more talking about what is involved -- I hear more people.

David Cameron's as marriage should be and his decision open to

everyone. This could be law by 2014. We are joined now by Dr Sharon

James from the Coalition for Marriage from Truro. Welcome to the

programme. You are against plans to allow gay marriage, can you tell us

why? The Coalition for Marriage is representing people up and down the

country, people of faith and no faith to believe this government

did not create marriage, it goes back to the beginning of recorded

history, it is a natural institution between a man and a

woman. The great majority of the UK population are very tolerant, and

we hear from many gay and lesbian people who are happy with civil

partnerships but we do not believe there should be done over the heads

of millions of married people. has the problem not been removed

for you? One of the top human rights lawyers in the country has

delivered an opinion that the quadruple loch is eminently

challengeable say all of these so- called protections are fairly

meaningless. The people we represent are not so much worried

about the rights of a few individual ministers, what our

supporters worry about is the civic liberties of ordinary people,

teachers, parents, foster-parents, public sector workers who are

already finding that it is threatened in an increasingly

hostile climate to those who believe in traditional marriage.

You are targeting Conservatives in Cornwall, what do you want from

them? We want every MP to listen to the views of their constituents and

we are finding when people find out about this, they have not been

properly informed but when they do find out about these plans, they

are unhappy and they have the right to contact their MP and we are

hearing from MPs say they have got more post on this issue, against a

married, than on any other issue. Let's move to Marcus. You support

gay marriage and in our survey, only two Conservative MPs in the

region of 14 actually support it and five actively opposed to it. Is

it likely to become the reality? can't answer, I do not know. One of

the issues is that a lot of Conservative members, I think Giles

Chichester alluded to this, they are in favour of that woman in

terms of proposing this but -- opposing this but the vast majority

supported. You cannot do what your own party wants a loan. -- once on

its own. It is just inevitable that gay marriage will come up, I cannot

see why you would say one is all right and the other isn't. Be is

now the right time to be introducing these measures? Is any

time the right time to introduce controversial measures. You can

feel passionate about it but for the vast majority of the public, I

think we have crossed a threshold one we had the issue about civil

partnerships. A Luke, why did Labour not introduce gay marriage,

and this half measure of civil partnerships? Equalisation of the

age of consent, ability to adopt, huge steps forward in the quality.

We believe more people should get married and extending it to

everybody, regardless of sexuality, will only increase the happiness of

everyone. These proposals do not take anything away from anybody who

is already married, it extends the right to marry and to be in a

marriage to anyone in a country and that surely has to be a good thing.

It is very rare that a government can extend happiness. Sharon, it

has to be a good thing, what do you say to them? I would say that this

will take away the freedom from those vast numbers of the British

public who do not believe that marriage is the same as same-sex

union. If people are already under threat of losing their jobs if they

disagree with gay marriage, one of the situation be of gay marriage is

introduced? I would say again that people on both sides of the

argument asking the Government to pause and consider what could well

be the unintended consequences. Senior politicians on both sides

saying this policy has not been properly thought through. Dr Sharon

James, thank you for joining us. Our round-up of the political week

A Devon has lost a landmark legal battle to wear her cross at work.

It reminded the Prime Minister of the promised to change the law.

have to stand up and I do regret saying that I feel my career of 30

years, it is such a sad loss. Cameron was asked what he was doing

to stop this happening again. will do everything we can to make

sure these important services are maintained even when they are

challenged by floods like the ones last year. Elected police

commissioner elected his first Chief Constable. A Devon and

Cornwall constituency looks even less likely after the Lord's voted

to delay boundary changes. And Torbay council proposed cuts to

which beach services which could mean they lose their Blue Flag

status. Why have we have raised this sooner or so that we can see

That is our round-up. Luke, cuts to beach services which could see Blue

Flag status being lost, a good way to save money when our industry is

really tourism-based? We are losing so much money in our water bills in

cleaning up, to achieve those amazing beaches, it would be a real

shame to see the protected status being lost. We must make sure they

are clean. I think this comes back to the conversation we were having

earlier, when you have got a limited resource, you must make

some difficult decisions. I do not envy the councils making these

decisions. The same council in Torbay spent �20,000 on a palm tree

in the middle of a roundabout. is the sort of decision making that

has to be defended and a think it is hard to do that but you have to

get the balance right and I think they are trying hard to do that.

You are still trying to defend the council here! It seems preposterous.