21/04/2013 Sunday Politics South West

And in the Southwest: will welfare reform devastate the local economy?

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2067 seconds

And well and you green energy Hello, I'm Lucie Fisher, coming up

on the Sunday Politics in the South West: Could the region follow

Iceland in creating thousands of jobs through geothermal power? One

MP says it could if the Government sets bold green energy targets now.

And for the next 20 minutes, I'm joined by Plymouth Labour MP Alison

Seabeck, the Lib Dem peer Robin Teverson and the Conservative MP

for Torridge and West Devon, Geoffrey Cox, welcome all of you to

the programme. Let's start with the benefits changes. Recent research

from Sheffield Hallam University shows welfare reform will take over

�500 million out of the region's economy. Torbay is the biggest

loser, but the areas represented in the studio today aren't far behind.

Alison's working age constituents are said to lose an average of �551

a year, in Robin's home county of Cornwall the figure is around �520,

and in Torridge the number is very similar. How can we cope in the

South West if we are losing this much money out of the economy at

this time? All regions are going to have losses. I do not think Alison

and her party are considering not cutting welfare, they are just

saying we should not cut it quite so much. It is people receiving

working tax credit and other working benefits, in those cases

they will benefit from the huge rise in the tax threshold. It is

going to be put back because they will have more tax in their pockets.

These figures are not met, they represent the amount of benefit

that is going out. I question to Alison is, what would Labour do?

The country is on the brink of economic and financial crisis.

Labour is not saying do not cut, just do not cut so much. We are on

the brink of an economic crisis caused by this Government's

policies. We would not argue there needs to be some control but if you

are going to bring in changes they have to beefier. This is not fair.

Taking �70 million out of the annual budget in Plymouth from

people we know spend their money in the local economy could be

seriously damaging to local businesses. We have said we would

look at controlling the welfare budget. At the same time we would

not be giving millionaire's tax breaks. Conservative MPs last week

were arguing we could not cut the bankers bonuses because it would

take money out of the economy yet here we are taking huge sweeps out

of the pockets of the poor. answer is the Lib Dem policy of

raising the tax threshold to 10,000. There is a myth put about that

these are different families but they are not. The majority of those

who get benefits are hard-working families. The figures here also do

not include pensions. Pensions are better under this Government. We

have looked after the elderly better than in the past. Do not

take my work for her -- my word for it, figures are out from ASDA the

supermarket today, people's disposable incomes are at �17 less

per week than they were in 2011. That is taking into account the tax

changes will stop -- tax changes. Where there is a problem, there has

been a shift in expenditure that has gone towards Bauben and against

the rural in the overall national budget and some of us have fought

against that. We have got to see that fear a deal between rural and

urban and this Government is not addressing it. What about these 500

pound cap we have been talking about, do you think that is fair?

People in the South West might get less wages than that to work yet

the benefits cap is set at �500 per week. I do not think Labour is

arguing for a regional pattern of benefits. The truth is, they have

no policies on this at all. We do have to move on, thank you very

much. It looks as though spring may have finally arrived, but it's been

a long cold winter and an expensive one for thousands of people across

the South West who can't access mains gas to heat their homes. This

week one of the region's MPs said the Government must do more to help

people who depend on off-grid energy. Tamsin Melville reports.

According to keep warm is a struggle for these pensioners near

Bude. And and 10 Thomson do not have access to the mains gas grid

so for heating the use coal and oil for deep radiators. They say their

heating has doubled in four years. It is something we cannot keep on

top of. It is not something that is going to go down. We have to keep

buying it. We do argue. I will say it is hot in here turn it off and

he will say he feels the cold and needs it on. Across Cornwall one in

five households are estimated to live in fuel poverty. Across the UK

4 million households are connected to the mains gas grid. Nearly half

of all homes in Cornwall are not connected. Many risk being left in

the darkness as reforms to energy happen. The cost can be up to 160%

more expensive. The Government has put a huge amount of effort into

getting fuel prices as low as they can be. The energy company have to

make sure people are on the lowest tariffs but off bread is not

regulated by off gem. There will be an inquiry to make sure all

households can get the best prices. This charity are frustrated by the

lack of progress. The fundamental is that Government and Government

regulators need to get off gas house holds on to their agenda.

They have been ignored. He says it is not just about customer

protection. The winter fuel payment is a great idea but it is paid at

the wrong time and they therefore do not have the opportunity to buy

oil when it is cheapest which could be during the summer months. There

are various schemes encouraging energy efficiency and there will be

cross-party discussions. Meanwhile, the gas networks are committed to

connecting thousands more warms to the dead by 2021. -- to the grid.

Is enough being done to help these people? Nor and I think my

Government did not do enough either. These are people not just using oil

but using bottles, gas, all these people are paying an extra

ordinarily a high proportion of their incomes just on keeping warm.

I do think the Government need action and I have a lot of sympathy.

You are the Lib Dem spokesman for energy and climate change in the

Lords, what is your take on this? It is not just the fact, I am off

the get myself and it means you cannot get from the energy

companies and joint tariff which are a lot cheaper so you're

electricity is more expensive as well in the rural area. The

Government has not paid enough attention to this. Ofgem the

regulator has been lackadaisical as well, it has not got involved. The

Competition Commission and Office of Fair Trading have really fudged

on this as well. What can the Government do? I completely agree.

I recall writing a letter to Alison's Government over the past

eight years and being told now is not the time. This is as real

problem. We have got and neglected army of people, pensioners, those

on low wages. So do you give them the money in summer when the fuel

is cheaper? Sir Italy we need more flexibility on the winter fuel

payments but what I found when I carried out an inquiry is that

there is very little competition. The contracts are very similar, it

easily similar in some cases so residents have very little choice.

You said you lived in the countryside, should we say that

living in the country is perhaps a luxury and the taxpayer should not

subsidise that. For many people that is where the Levante have no

alternative to live somewhere else. One of the things that to be done,

if everyone had energy-efficient houses it would not be too bad but

these ones tend to be the worst. Government programmes around

energy-efficiency, perhaps rural houses could be given a priority.

Should be bring in means testing for the winter fuel payments?

starts getting very messy and expensive if you build in extra

bureaucracy to deal with that. leave things as they stand? OK, we

have to move on. Now sticking with the energy theme, this week the row

about renewable energy targets returned to Westminster. One of

Cornwall's MPs said the South West could attract millions of pounds of

investment if only ministers would provide certainty about the

Government's energy plans beyond 2020, but he says the Treasury is

still reluctant to do that. John Danks reports. Things are on the up

for the solar energy trade. The cost of producing energy panels has

come down. Firms like this one are confident the next seven years

should see subsidies continue. Investment and growth will depend

on what the Government do next. is a positive thing and allows us

to invest and look at developing into different periods. We do need

the long-term vision in order to know what we want to do. A forecast

of South West renewable energy over the next 10 years sees Solar Power

generated electricity rising by 103%. Onshore wind rising by 201 %

and biomass and marine could both grow by around 1,000%. This will

only happen with the right long- term investment climate. We've and

title are a significant for the South West. Really for them

extending the targets would be very helpful indeed. Getting money to

flow into renewable technology has not been easy. Best hub in Cornwall

designed to test devices has remained unused since being placed

on the sea floor or in 2010. Geothermal power was to be

developed at this site but the plans fell through after failing to

obtain investment. The opportunity will be missed, investors will go

and put their money in other parts of the world, let alone in other

sectors of the UK economy. The renewable sector will simply miss

the opportunity altogether. There will be thousands of jobs and

billions of pounds worth of investment lost. The Lib Dems are

keen to set a target for low energy by 2016. Billions are already

earmarked to overhaul the infrastructure. Renewables will be

part of the plan but as the cliff edge of Twenty20 approaches, many

will already have walked away. Are you approach green energy or not?

This headlines which caught you does not sound very green, does it?

Only if you take a look at similar packages. There is ample range of

renewable energy which we are not putting investment into. It is

going to these pointless pieces of industrial garbage which are being

strewn across the countryside and upsetting rural communities up and

down the land. Marine is in place outside of Cornwall and that is not

being used. What we need to do his accent the system towards the

development of younger renewable energies so that the money goes

into those. At the moment the easy way to get a renewables Certificate

is to build a wind turbine 300 metres from someone's house. There

was going to be 6 million matched funding which the Government has

backed out of. Is that because you do not believe this is something

the Government is probably backing? I think the problem is that we are

end a recession, the banks are not lending, it might be a good idea

for us to send clear signals that we want Marine Energy, tidal, Soler,

these devious forms of the renewables that are a good. The

problem is that these wind turbines are switching people off in the

tens of thousands. Just to remind people think he's they have just

tuned in, you are the Lib Dems spokesman for energy and climate

change, are we doing enough? could always do more, particularly

on the research side. We need to bring on the technologies of the

future but also get on with the ones we have at the moment. The

cheapest forms of renewable our Solar and onshore wind. They are

more efficient than offshore wind. The wind is at free fuel resource.

It is the upfront cost that is significant. That and people like

this man do not want them. It has been shown in they are at minority.

Where they are being put the majority are against. I expect that

would be the same for communities where there are not nuclear-power

stations. In some countries like Denmark you have a co-operative and

local people actually owned these turbines. If you ask people if they

would like a turbine Daisy know unless you ask if they want to part

Ornette then they say yes. -- part owned it. Indeed. There are

corporate of wind farms in the UK as I understand it, that is a

thoroughly good thing. More interestingly, we should be asking

the Lib Dems exactly where the sect in all of this. At their conference

they come up with one question for Government and say we must have

targets. I think we should have targets, our business needs have to

come back to that. At the same time as you have got a Liberal Democrat

head of State to is not pushing targets. It is typical. Can I

briefly touched on business? The CBI have recently put figures out,

one third of all business growth is around green businesses. A

significant proportion of that is around the renewables. They are not

onshore wind South West, Mary and, yes. Are you pro or are you not?

Liberal Democrats are four or the deep harmonisation target going

into the bill. What we have is a Treasury that does not want one but

has agreed to an increase in resources for renewable energy

which is important. It is have it! It is a very important one. Sorry

we have to stop there. Now our regular round-up of the political

week in 60 seconds. It will be worth it! Debate about cuts to the

Devon and Somerset Fire Service has been extended after a meeting in

Torbay. A second fire engine will occasionally arrive a little later

than it would have done to date. is absolutely imperative. Over

1,000 contaminated birds were washed up on our beaches according

to D and S P B who want pollution controls tightened up. By

continuing to use the three schools menu there is a widening of the

poverty gap says an MP in Devon. Thousands lined the streets to say

goodbye to Margaret Thatcher including the women who used to cut

her here when she was on holiday in Cornwall. I feel very privileged to

have helped her and I am delighted to be here to be my last respects.

-- pay my last respects. Let's talk about the dead seabirds, some say

it could be the result of perfectly legal tank washing regulations.

think there should be tighter pollution waste. If you cause

damage you should be liable for that. Often on slicks there is a

DNA trace where you can trace things back. If you cause problems,

you should pay. We do agree? Yes, it is a very see his issue. There

have been a spate of these incidents in recent months. What

did you take on this? I think the liability is there. I do not think

the lot needs tightening. I think the issue is on enforcement. We

have has been coastguard and devious agencies who would carry

out this enforcement having their budgets savaged by the Government.