Browse content similar to 09/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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regional benefits cap would damage the local economy. And robust cuts | :01:46. | :01:56. | |
:01:56. | :01:57. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2132 seconds | :01:57. | :37:29. | |
Hello, I'm Lucie Fisher. Coming up on the Sunday Politics in the South | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
West: A warning to bus passengers from campaigners who fear bus | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
funding is about to be cut by a further 15%. | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
And for the next 20 minutes, I'm joined by the Conservative MP Anne | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
Marie Morris and Labour Councillor Nicky Williams - welcome to the | :37:44. | :37:50. | |
programme. This week the Energy Secretary Ed | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
Davey unveiled measures giving local communities more powers to block | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
onshore wind farms. He said that far too often, people living nearby have | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
seen the wind farms but not the windfall - he wants to see companies | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
paying local people depending on how much energy is generated. But some | :38:03. | :38:12. | |
critics say the policy could mark the end of onshore wind farms. | :38:12. | :38:18. | |
Anne-Marie, have you given in on this one? Not at all. We need to | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
recognise that if we want beautiful countryside as well as green energy, | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
there needs to be a balance. The local people to be able to have a | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
real say in what that balance should be is absolutely the way forward, | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
particularly if they're going to get some financial benefit. You think | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
the financial benefit will make a difference? You don't think people | :38:39. | :38:46. | |
will just say, no, thank you. think people are far more savvy and | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
sensible, and that is why as a government we've looked at giving | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
them the opportunity to develop neighbourhood plans. This is part of | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
the same move to give local communities control and respect | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
their judgement. Nikki, what do you make of this? Could this be the end | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
of wind farms? I think it certainly could be. We only need to look at | :39:08. | :39:15. | |
the government 's plans for carbonisation. This is just another | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
measure that will make it more difficult for investment in | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
sustainable energy. Even if they get some kind of payment for having | :39:23. | :39:28. | |
those wind farms near the house? think it's good that there are | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
incentives for doing that, but actually, what we know by the | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
campaigns up and down the country is people will continue to say, not in | :39:35. | :39:41. | |
my backyard. They will actually oppose measures if they affect them | :39:41. | :39:47. | |
personally. Well, stay with those, we've got plenty more to discuss. | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
This week, Labour's top men set out to convince voters they can be | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
trusted to run the economy. The shadow chancellor's "iron | :39:53. | :39:55. | |
discipline" included the suggestion of a regional benefits cap, an idea | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
which is already dividing Labour MPs. Some argue it makes sense to | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
pay less housing benefit in places where rent is lower, but others are | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
warning the South West economy would take a big hit. John Henderson | :40:05. | :40:12. | |
reports. The war of words on welfare. | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
Fairness is also about being fair to the person who leaves home every | :40:15. | :40:21. | |
morning to go out to work and sees their neighbour sleep -- sleeping on | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
benefits. George Osborne said his cap of �26,000 on benefit would do | :40:25. | :40:32. | |
two things: yes, save him money, but, crucially, make work pay. | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
well as a tax system where the rich pay their fair share, we have to | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
have a welfare system that is fair to the working system -- the working | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
people who paid for it. The benefits cap came into effect in April. In | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
Cornwall, 114 families have had money taken away because of the cap. | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
This week, the man who wants Osborne's job set out his plans and | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
implied that true fairness could only be achieved by localising that | :40:53. | :41:03. | |
:41:03. | :41:04. | ||
benefits cap. A fair cap on household benefits, not one that | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
costs more than it saves, but which takes account of housing costs in | :41:08. | :41:14. | |
different parts of the country, with an independent body advising on | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
whether the caps should be higher in high-cost areas like London, but | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
potentially lower in other parts of the country. So how would a regional | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
benefits cap work, and what would it mean for the South West? Exeter's MP | :41:26. | :41:33. | |
is optimistic. It's ridiculous to have a one size fits all cap | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
throughout the country when housing costs and rents vary so much. This | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
is what we're talking about, housing benefit. In an area like the | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
south-west and Exeter in particular, we have very high housing costs and | :41:46. | :41:53. | |
rents, said the benefits cap should reflect that. The bill for housing | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
benefit last year was a whopping �17 billion. The fear among some is that | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
Labour's plan to control that spending with a regional benefits | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
system could mean extra money to London claimants comes at the | :42:01. | :42:11. | |
expense of those here. The question will then be, it's certain areas are | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
going to receive more in terms of the benefits bill, how is this going | :42:14. | :42:24. | |
:42:24. | :42:25. | ||
to be paid for? Does this mean other areas are going to be squeezed? | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
Labour MP in the North East has condemned his party's new approach. | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
I am opposed to regional benefit caps in the same way that I am | :42:35. | :42:41. | |
opposed to organising regional pay in the public service. It is unfair | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
on the North of England and the south-west of England. Labour's | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
conversation with voters on its new policies is only just beginning - | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
its idea for a regional cap on benefits could prove to be a hard | :42:49. | :42:59. | |
:42:59. | :43:10. | ||
it a good idea? The devil is in the detail. It costs a lot more to live | :43:10. | :43:17. | |
in London and we need to address that. I do have concerns about how | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
it could impact Plymouth because we know rents are disproportionately | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
lower than some of the immediate surrounding areas. So we really need | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
to look at how they would intend to bring Latin and how it would affect | :43:30. | :43:39. | |
:43:40. | :43:40. | ||
local people. Back to bring that in. To discuss this, Brian is here with | :43:40. | :43:46. | |
us. He has spent years working with people with benefits. Is this idea | :43:46. | :43:54. | |
workable? I'm old enough to remember when Margaret Thatcher made housing | :43:54. | :44:00. | |
benefits rocket. It was landlord is printing money. 13 years of the | :44:00. | :44:06. | |
Labour government did not stop that. Housing benefit has been | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
chopped. This idea seems to say we're going to limit housing benefit | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
locally but private landlords can still charge what they want in the | :44:13. | :44:18. | |
private sector. I'm not saying that is wrong for the landlord to do it, | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
they provide a service and demeaned in many ways when they shouldn't be | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
because many of them are very good. I can't see how this is going to | :44:27. | :44:32. | |
work. This is a Labour policy, and something you are not sure you | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
support. People are saying it is not even workable. Should Ed balls go | :44:36. | :44:43. | |
back to the drawing board? We have not had the detail yet and we had a | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
very broad announcement. What we do need to acknowledge is that people | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
in certain parts of the country are suffering disproportionately because | :44:51. | :44:58. | |
of the benefits cap. In Plymouth, we know that only 150 people have been | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
affected by the benefits cap. That is probably 150 people to many, I | :45:03. | :45:10. | |
would argue, but actually we do need to look at the more structural ways | :45:10. | :45:14. | |
we can target resources, bearing in mind that we have a huge economic | :45:14. | :45:19. | |
legacy which were going to inherit after that cutting of the | :45:19. | :45:26. | |
Conservative government. Anne-Marie, Boris Johnson had some | :45:26. | :45:30. | |
reservations about this kind of regional benefit, didn't he? What do | :45:30. | :45:37. | |
you make of it? Interestingly, although then in your clip focused | :45:37. | :45:45. | |
on housing, I think when I look back at what the policy was about, it was | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
more holistic. But I do share the comment that it isn't workable, | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
particularly if you start throwing in all the benefits, not just | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
housing. I have concerns about what this would do to the private renting | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
sector which we absolutely do need. It seems to be far too complex to | :46:02. | :46:08. | |
actually work. Say in Exeter the average rent is �1100 and Plymouth | :46:08. | :46:14. | |
about �800 for a family house. If the cap came in at �900, you might | :46:14. | :46:20. | |
see people having to move out of Exeter and into Plymouth. I would | :46:20. | :46:27. | |
worry about that, it is rather bizarre. It will just cause poverty | :46:27. | :46:33. | |
and rent arrears. People will not leave their jobs. But since the | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
spare room subsidy was introduced people have had to move out. I think | :46:38. | :46:45. | |
that is the council tenants. We have to remember Labour did this to the | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
private rented sector ten years ago. This exact same bedroom tax was | :46:50. | :46:58. | |
implemented ten years ago. What would you like to see then? We need | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
an investigation into the whole benefits system. In the 20 years | :47:02. | :47:10. | |
I've been in advance -- advice worker, I've seen too many people | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
living lives on benefits with no aspirations. Their children are the | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
same. That is not fair on the children. If housing costs are lower | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
in certain areas it does seem to make sense that they receive less | :47:22. | :47:28. | |
benefits. There are limits to say what landlords can charge in Exeter | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
and implement. Ed Miliband did not mention this in his keynote speech | :47:31. | :47:40. | |
on Thursday. So you think it's all talk? I think it is another sign of | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
dabbling. Boys and girls in the back rooms of policy people in London | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
with not much of a clue. I'm cynical and I've been in this game for 30 | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
years. I wish they would ask is more. One fundamental point which | :47:54. | :48:00. | |
has been mist is what was spoken about in this speech by Ed has been | :48:00. | :48:06. | |
about making work pay. They would have more rights they been working | :48:06. | :48:12. | |
for a longer of time. People should be valued for actually having | :48:12. | :48:21. | |
worked. Is your benefit cap making work pay? Well, what's happening is | :48:21. | :48:30. | |
people are beginning to look at this very -- this necessary balance | :48:30. | :48:40. | |
:48:40. | :48:41. | ||
between the two. In Cornwall, the average wage is 20000 and the cap is | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
26,000, so maybe it doesn't make much sense to not have a regional | :48:45. | :48:53. | |
cap. We all agree it is complex, but that is quite simple. It doesn't | :48:53. | :49:00. | |
seem to make sense. The challenge is that housing benefit is not simple. | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
It is not simply here is the amount you are paying and here is the | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
figure. The calculation is not just here is the cap. It just doesn't | :49:09. | :49:15. | |
work like that. Thank you very much for joining us. | :49:15. | :49:17. | |
As ministers put the finishing touches to their 2015 spending | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
plans, there are warnings any further cuts to bus funding would | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
decimate the South West's rural network. Many of the region's MPs | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
are lobbying the Treasury amid fears of 15% being slashed from bus | :49:26. | :49:32. | |
budgets. Tamsin Melville reports. Getting the bus to and from her job | :49:32. | :49:42. | |
:49:42. | :49:42. | ||
at a Boscastle hotel would be a struggle for Sharon van der Linden. | :49:42. | :49:48. | |
In the mornings I have to get dropped off because I'd have to get | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
a three-mile walk to the bus stop anyway. And then there is a | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
three-mile walk when I get off. Sharon's boss says a reduced service | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
in the past year to a village reliant on tourism has been bad | :49:58. | :50:05. | |
enough - and he's worried things could get worse. If there was a | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
reduction in the service as it is now we would have trouble getting | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
stats and we already have trouble getting staff. It cannot appreciate | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
any more. Peter's fears aren't unfounded. The Campaign for Better | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
Transport is warning buses could be hit by a 15% cut in the Spending | :50:19. | :50:25. | |
Review at the end of this month, putting more rural services at risk. | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
In Cornwall, bus operators have already been hit by Government cuts | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
to a fuel rebate and a squeeze on the subsidy they get for over 60s | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
free passes. One campaigner says any further cuts could signal a major | :50:36. | :50:46. | |
:50:46. | :50:46. | ||
decline in routes. In the last two years we have seen a reduction bit | :50:46. | :50:53. | |
by bit of some routes, but I think it's could be a major service | :50:53. | :50:58. | |
reduction, the likes of which in Cornwall we've not seen since 1971 | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
when I think 75 bus routes were withdrawn with major consequences | :51:03. | :51:05. | |
for decades to come as a result. Some south west MPs representing | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
rural areas are lobbying the Treasury to create a new pot of | :51:08. | :51:14. | |
money to protect rural bus services. I think it is in the government 's | :51:14. | :51:21. | |
interest to see economic development. Report after report has | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
said the rural economy could generate far more jobs, could be far | :51:24. | :51:30. | |
more of a driver for the recovery of the economy. In order for that to | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
happen, people need to get around the rural areas. They can't all | :51:34. | :51:40. | |
afford a car. That is why this is crucial. Back in Boscastle in Dan | :51:40. | :51:42. | |
Rogerson's constituency, Sharon van der Linden finds the prospect of any | :51:42. | :51:50. | |
further reduction in routes ridiculous. Well, there would be | :51:50. | :51:52. | |
hardly anybody working because hardly anybody could get into the | :51:52. | :51:55. | |
town. The Government's spending review will take place on the 26th | :51:56. | :52:05. | |
:52:06. | :52:06. | ||
June, when the transport budget for 2015-2016 will be revealed. | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
I'm joined by transport campaigner Richard from London. Welcome to the | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
programme. Tel is your concerns, what is making you think cuts are on | :52:15. | :52:20. | |
the cards for bus services? The big worry we have is what is happening | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
to the whole transport budget. Funding for London and the highway | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
maintenance will be squeezed, and particularly funding for buses. | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
We're worried about what will happen to the main grants for buses. It | :52:31. | :52:37. | |
could lead to a major reduction of services in rural areas. What do you | :52:37. | :52:45. | |
want the government to do the government to safeguard the funding | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
this time round. We know it is difficult, but it is a gentle -- | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
essential that we don't rush into changes. In the long-term, let's | :52:52. | :52:57. | |
look at more efficient ways of funding bus services. But a real | :52:57. | :53:03. | |
reduction in terms of services would be disastrous. Should we be worried | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
about these bus services? Well, if that prediction comes true then of | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
course and I'm very concerned about Rob buses. I've made in a bob | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
representations to the government over the years. But there are two | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
pots of money, one goes to the bus services and one goes to the | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
council. In my concern is because of the cuts to the councils, put the | :53:25. | :53:30. | |
two together and you will have a problem. So I think we need a fairer | :53:30. | :53:34. | |
way of ensuring the raw part of our community get a fair part of the | :53:34. | :53:40. | |
funding. At the moment, the funding part which is used | :53:40. | :53:47. | |
disproportionately puts rural people at a disadvantage. I want a fairer | :53:47. | :53:57. | |
:53:57. | :53:58. | ||
funding formula so we take account of the role issue. -- rural. That | :53:58. | :54:03. | |
could work. The real worry is about short-term cuts in the same time as | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
making changes to funding. That happened in Wales and they have seen | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
a significant reduction in services and a rise in pairs. Let's look at a | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
better way of trying to find funding but in the short-term let's not rush | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
into it in a desired to find spending cuts. Labour would be in a | :54:21. | :54:28. | |
similar position, wouldn't they? There would have be cuts? Yes, but | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
they need technology transport is vital to a growing economy. So we | :54:32. | :54:37. | |
need to invest in our bus services to ensure people can access work and | :54:37. | :54:42. | |
opportunities, not only in rural areas but in our cities. I'm deeply | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
concerned about these proposed cuts in funding because there is a | :54:46. | :54:50. | |
limited pot of money available to councils to subsidise bus services. | :54:50. | :54:58. | |
Where would you see cuts be made instead? I'm not going to | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
second-guess that an answer that here. Wouldn't people living in | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
Devon rather see things like overseas aid cut them bus services? | :55:07. | :55:13. | |
Things that are important to them and might make the economy grow? | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
think we need to look strategically long and hard. I cannot give you an | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
answer on that, I'm not a government minister so I don't have charge of | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
those finances. But we do need a fundamental review of the spending | :55:25. | :55:33. | |
that is going on. But you may have an opinion. Is area -- is overseas | :55:33. | :55:42. | |
aid in area that you see as a possible cut? These suggested | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
proposals on the grapevine - we don't know whether or not these cuts | :55:45. | :55:52. | |
will actually be made - but in terms of whether cuts should fall, I don't | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
think anybody enjoys cuts. As to where the right places, I think that | :55:57. | :56:04. | |
is a very difficult call to make. Should bugs -- bus passes for the | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
over 60s be means tested? Showed some of them be given to young | :56:08. | :56:16. | |
people who are looking for work? issue of bus passes is a good one. I | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
think it is important that the older person as the bus pass. What if they | :56:21. | :56:31. | |
:56:31. | :56:32. | ||
are very wealthy? Just a me out. -- just hear me out. If it makes them | :56:32. | :56:38. | |
go out, then it is a good thing. But if they are wealthy, it is essential | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
that they have the chance to not use it. I think we needed charity said | :56:42. | :56:47. | |
that those who want to can give that benefit up. Richard, do you think | :56:47. | :56:54. | |
the over 60s bus pass is working? think it is working. There are | :56:54. | :56:59. | |
worries about underfunding. But if you want diverse communities then I | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
think it's really important you support the independence of older | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
people. I think there are changes you could make to the transport | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
budget. The government is trying to push money into infrastructure and | :57:11. | :57:17. | |
capital expenditure, and actually not all that is needed. More buses | :57:17. | :57:20. | |
would reduce congestion, so I think that is where we should be looking | :57:20. | :57:28. | |
at savings. Now, our regular round-up of the | :57:28. | :57:34. | |
political week in 60 seconds. The Prime Minister was asked if he'd | :57:34. | :57:44. | |
retire judges who didn't imprison convicted paedophiles. We have clear | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
laws we passed in this country about how serious Parliament thinks | :57:49. | :57:51. | |
offences are, and judges should pay heed to those laws. | :57:51. | :57:58. | |
Lawyers protested about cuts to legal aid. The government cuts will | :57:58. | :58:01. | |
make it untenable to continue. The badger cull was debated in | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
parliament, while the St Ives MP advanced plans to give badgers in | :58:04. | :58:13. | |
his constituency a TB vaccine. two pilot areas run the risk of | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
making the devastating problem of bovine TB significantly worse. The | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
vaccination programme would be significantly cheaper according to | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
the report. And a council official in Dorset | :58:23. | :58:29. | |
explained why it's taking so long to reopen the Beaminster Tunnel. | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
you can see the guys up there are having to abseil. It is very steep, | :58:34. | :58:44. | |
:58:44. | :58:47. | ||
so it is difficult. Let's look at the badger cull. | :58:47. | :58:52. | |
Anne-Marie, do you think this could cost U-boats? Is it an unpopular | :58:52. | :58:57. | |
measure which could cost U-boats? have to recognise the damage this is | :58:57. | :59:02. | |
doing to farmers. Every time there is an outbreak, that is �30,000 they | :59:02. | :59:07. | |
have to pay. We cannot allow it to go one. Half the outbreaks of bovine | :59:07. | :59:11. | |
TB are in this region and it would be negligent to sit here and do | :59:11. | :59:16. | |
nothing about it. Every country that has had this problem, the only way | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
they have resolved it is by dealing with the wildlife. In Ireland they | :59:20. | :59:25. | |
did it recently and there was a third reduction in infection. We | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
need to look after the livelihood of our farmers and our community. | :59:29. | :59:34. | |
you support the coal? I think the jury is still out as to how | :59:34. | :59:38. | |
effective it might be. Other people are looking at vaccination is a | :59:38. | :59:44. | |
problem. What about the idea that we are allowed to shoot rabbits and | :59:44. | :59:49. | |
nobody seems to mind about that, and yet a badger seems to somehow go to | :59:49. | :59:52. | |
the heart of people and they don't want to see that happening? Is there | :59:52. | :59:58. | |
a difference? I think the issue is the amount of resources we are | :59:58. | :00:04. | |
spending. Police policing the badger cull, that is a huge issue in its | :00:04. | :00:07. | |
self. So we need to look at the pros and cons and how much it will | :00:07. | :00:10. |