13/10/2013 Sunday Politics South West


13/10/2013

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Morning, welcome to the veritable pot pourri that is this morning's

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Sunday Politics. We have Alastair Charmichael. We'll ask him what he

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has that his predecessor Michael Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps

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going on and on and on. He'll bang his drum for Europe.

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Free of the shackles of Government, former Energy Secretary Chris Huhne

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will be with us. We'll ask him for the inside scoop.

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In the South West: The MPs Diane Abbott will join

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In the South West: The MPs threatening to mobilise the rural

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yeomanry in their fight for better council funding.

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And what next for the says we've misunderstood the problem

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of human trafficking and that men pundits who we try to shuffle out of

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a job but failed miserably, Mick watt, Miranda Green Andijan an

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Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving

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chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen a a shift to the lot of. Two have

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announced policy changes which could Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves

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says Labour will be tougher on the Tories. While Tristram Hunt says

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Labour loves Tory-style free schools after all. Here he is on the BBC

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viewers. If you are a group of parents, social entrepreneurs,

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teachers, interested in setting parents, social entrepreneurs,

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school in areas where you need new school place, the Labour Government

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will be on your side. That's free enterprise and innovation. It will

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will be on your side. That's free be in areas of need. We have a

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school places crisis going on. It teachers in these schools. And

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accountability. What is going on with the Al Madina school is because

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of terrible mistakes with Michael I'm not sure if the policies have

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changed, the change of tone is I'm not sure if the policies have

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changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and

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changed, the change of tone is schools. A significant change of

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reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge

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of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.

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Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi different on substance but saying

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Labour will be tough than the Tories on welfare. You've seen that clip

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from Tristram, free schools will be allowed to be set up in areas of

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need. Greater oversight. But a completely different change of tone,

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we are on the side of parents and social entrepreneurs who want to set

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these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,

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polarised. You've had the Michael department. This weekend, we've

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polarised. You've had the Michael leaked memos from one of Michael

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Gove's advisers which are extreme views about the state of education.

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And on the other side teaching unions. It hasn't led to a healthy

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debate which represents what parents want out of schools or employers.

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This is a huge move from the Labour Party to sound more reasonable.

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This is a huge move from the Labour have been silent on education which

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is a huge policy area on the left. Is this a focus group-driven change?

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They've seen the polls. Welfare reforms are hugery popular and free

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only apiece the focus groups by changing the policy substantially. I

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always thought a test for this Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed

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Miliband would promote Blair rights, it is clear he did, it is whether

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they would be allowed to be Blair rights. When Stephen Twigg carried

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the education portfolio it was clear his own views were closer to the

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Government than he was allowed to let on. He was constrained. There is

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no point of giving Tristram Hunt this job if he is not allowed to say

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what he thinks. I wouldn't mind betting privately he thinks free

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schools should be available beyond just areas of need. He hasn't yet

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defined need. It could be, we've run schools are so bad we need schools.

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If that is it, it is the same Asics itsing Government policy. In they

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unsatisfactory that's no different. He wanted to say he was in favour of

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higher educational standards and rigour, he had to tell the audience

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he has a Cambridge PhD to attack Michael Gove. That was difficult for

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Tristram Hunt he had to mention that. Is that worth something, a PhD

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from Cambridge? Obviously to him it is. He said they would demand proper

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teaching qualifications. That could teaching? Independent schools do not

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have to have teachers with formal teaching qualifications. I've never

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been to one? What about you? That decision by Michael Gove to allow

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free schools to employ nonunionised and non-trained people, so he has to

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Watch this space. The dust settled after the party resufficients. Do

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the Tories look a bit more like Britain. Do the Tories look more

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#4 With reshuffles, you're never really certain. There's whispers,

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rumours, guesses. But the only way to know it is underway is keeping

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beady eyes on a front door. Up until now, the only way we knew who was in

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and who was out was who came walking down this bit of Downing Street

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and who was out was who came walking a smile on their face after going to

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see the boss. The once who are to be sacked, they usually go round the

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back. Not this time. No, something new alerted us all. The-PM started

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can't remember a triple decker reshuffle where you've three parties

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changing ministerial teams at the resufficient happened on Twitter.

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Not that the press stopped watching the door as well. News was a bit

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Charmichael replaced Michael Moore, the first to be pounced on. I'm

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disappointed to be leaving office now but pleased at what I've been

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able to achieve in the last couple of years. Not as pleased as one

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imagines as the man receiving the welcome that went on, and on and

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simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, in a sense seen off the premises of

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the Home Office in conspiracy to let # Blowing hi Jude through a traffic

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Democrats. We tend to think they are herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet

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Minister, another minister, Jeremy Browne. By lunch time, the Tory

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ranks were shifting too. The PM Browne. By lunch time, the Tory

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to boost the numbers of telegenic women walking into Government and

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turning perceptions around. He tipped a so-called flatcap to men

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backgrounds with room for some which fitted neither label but are friends

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of George Osborne. And, all the while, those new Tory ministers

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of George Osborne. And, all the learning of Labour's changes. Labour

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too knows the value of new young blood striding into the limelight.

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Again some with TV experience of that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de

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peer row would be hard to describe as hard left. But Blairbrushing

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peer row would be hard to describe past out of the picture seemed to be

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the name of the day. Liam Byrne With Diane Abbott also gone, was

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this really a Blair right cull? It depends what you mean. Blair right

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used to mean someone who wanted depends what you mean. Blair right

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Blair to be leader of the Labour Party. Somebody who worked closely

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with him. Now it means sometimes people who believe in a certain

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with him. Now it means sometimes of ideologyies or ideas. There are

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still very much those kind of Blair rights within the party. But we

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still very much those kind of Blair seeing the group around Tony Blair

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are not long assassin flew enjoys as they once were. By evening, it was

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over. New bees were sharing the ministers quietly thanked commits

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raters. Or -- commiserators. Or ministers quietly thanked commits

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disified. How much much someone standing here might want it to be

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the case, you are unlikely to get someone coming out of that do going

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"how could." And running off crying! And the brand, spanking new Scottish

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Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins us from Orkney on a line that hasn't

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been used since the fleet was used in the outbreak of World War I! I

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wasn't around at the time. I'm hearing you loud and clear. Why

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wasn't around at the time. I'm you agreed to run a department?

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wasn't around at the time. I'm you wanted to abolish six years

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wasn't around at the time. I'm Hello? Maybe our connections are not

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Charmichael. Can you hear me? I Hello? Maybe our connections are not

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hear you now. There was a nasty second there where you disappeared.

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Let me try the question again. Why have you agreed to run a department

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you wanted to abolish six years have you agreed to run a department

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Because this is the, probably one of the most important jobs in British

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politics at the moment. To ensure that Scotland remains part of the

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UK. Even when I was talking about the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs

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of Scotland -- representation of Scotland within Whitehall, there was

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always a job to be done. That is true in spades now. I will focus on

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making sure the UK Government has a real voice in that debate. What

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making sure the UK Government has a you that Michael Moore didn't have?

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Look, I think Michael Moore did you that Michael Moore didn't have?

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excellent job. The work he did delivering the Edinburgh agreement

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clear legal and decisive referendum, the work delivering extra powers to

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substantial piece of work. I'm not friend of mine. I will say that

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substantial piece of work. I'm not we go forward into this, this is now

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about the actual debate itself. we go forward into this, this is now

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will be putting the case, with some passion, I hope, for Scotland to

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just some abstract debate about nationhood, sovereignty, this is a

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their livelihoods, the cost of their mortgage. That and an awful lot

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challenge. I understand that. But if you're being put in there to save

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the union, every pole has the no -- poll has the no campaign margin

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alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing pretty well to save the union. I

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suspect you've been given the job to Scotland? And lieu, you misread

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suspect you've been given the job to situation if you -- Andrew, you

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misread the situation new think anybody is going to be the person

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who will save the union. The people who will save the union are the

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people of Scotland if they turn who will save the union are the

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next year and vote to save the union. We have to put the case for

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that. That is what I will be doing. Look at the position of your own

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party. You came fourth in the last Scottish parentry elections. You

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were even behind the Conservatives. The latest poll has you still in

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fourth. Are you there because you're a bruiser and you will pep up the

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Liberal Democrats opportunity in Scotland. If I had a pound for

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everybody to referred to me as being Scotland. If I had a pound for

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a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be sitting here this morning. I could

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have retired by now. The truth of this, if I can address it once and

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for all, I have done probably one of the most complex and subtle jobs in

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three-and-a-half years, Liberal Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition

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survived in that job a week, let alone three-and-a-half years, if I

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was the sort of person who went around picking unnecessary fights.

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So, can we just please forget about this business about being a bruiser.

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As far as the position of the party in the polls, this is true also

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As far as the position of the party the referendum vote, opinion polls

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are a snapshot. They are not a prediction of what will happen in

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the future. I will be out there putting the case. Neither the next

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election nor the referendum is one or lost yet. One of the things I

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really want to be guarding against because we are a good margin ahead

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today, 12 months out from the actual polling day, that it is in the bag.

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Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As you know, wasn't for the Liberal

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Democrats. Not just talking about the polls. You came fourth in the

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You said you were happy to facial ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should

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David Cameron face him? I am happy debate. Should David Cameron face

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him? No, because that allows Alex Nationalists to portray this as

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him? No, because that allows Alex sort of contest or choice between a

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vision of Scottish social democracy and English conservativism, which it

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is not. This is a debate that has to is not. This is a debate that has to

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be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David

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Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is

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not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,

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the person who should be debating Darling. He has got a Scottish name

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wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described

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the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were

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you referring to the campaign or referring to Alistair Darling. I

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think what I was saying is that referring to Alistair Darling. I

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we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we

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are now campaigning for people Alistair Darling said it himself, we

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hearts because if you look at the range of papers the Government has

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published, it is pretty clear the arguments lie in relation to the

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head. I am not giving up the battle for the hearts and Scotland because

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there is a good strong case, as somebody who is proud to be Scottish

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and to be British, for Scotland somebody who is proud to be Scottish

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remain part of the UK. You come somebody who is proud to be Scottish

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distilleries and I understand you celebratory drink for your new post.

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Not a drop has touched my lips. celebratory drink for your new post.

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supporting local business! I will be making up for lost time on the

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supporting local business! I will be of November, I will be doing it

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supporting local business! I will be aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if

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website, they can donate. It is worthwhile. I cannot think of a

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better cause. One Cabinet minister who many thought might get Reef

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better cause. One Cabinet minister Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics.

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minorities, where did you fit in? I minorities, where did you fit in? I

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would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it

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would describe myself as the elder difficult to replace them. I enjoy

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it. It is a great privilege to have a role in Cabinet and I will carry

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on as long as David wants me to a role in Cabinet and I will carry

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I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have

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survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this

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reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call,

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asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my

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role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings

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of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.

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You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why

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You said you are going to stand you keep going? What do you hope to

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achieve in politics? I am mostly a political anorak, I have been since

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I was very small, by the process of politics but the older I get I get

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governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems

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is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is

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is quite appalling. The difficulty difficult and I find it fascinating.

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The old argument that attracts every decent person into politics, you

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might be able sometimes to make decent person into politics, you

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bit of difference, and I try to decent person into politics, you

:20:35.:20:38.

that. I try not to hark back on decent person into politics, you

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experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the

:20:41.:20:44.

Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on

:20:44.:20:51.

Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain

:20:51.:20:57.

adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda

:20:57.:21:04.

on Britain's membership to the EU? I accountable to the long-term and

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representatives, but this is a minority now and my colleagues have

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firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of

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Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is

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Britain's relationship with the of the most important things in

:21:28.:21:32.

Britain's place in the modern world politicians are able to look after

:21:32.:21:38.

the living standards, the economy, the safety against terrorism. Last

:21:38.:21:45.

the living standards, the economy, summer you said that only extreme

:21:45.:21:49.

nationalists wanted a silly EU referendum. It follows your party

:21:49.:21:54.

must be full of extremely silly nationalists. The people who are

:21:54.:22:00.

desperate to have a referendum are all the people who actually want to

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referendum will involve the public and people like me have got to get

:22:07.:22:12.

across to the public, don't just feel angry about the last thing

:22:12.:22:15.

across to the public, don't just read in the newspaper about what the

:22:15.:22:17.

commission is or is not doing, do commission is or is not doing, do

:22:17.:22:22.

bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a

:22:22.:22:29.

leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from

:22:29.:22:36.

influence in events. That is not just how the politicians get on

:22:36.:22:41.

influence in events. That is not politicians look after us when we

:22:41.:22:48.

spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being

:22:48.:22:52.

threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will

:22:52.:23:01.

threatened. You didn't even turn up engagements on the Friday concerned.

:23:01.:23:04.

It seemed to get through without my participation. You didn't want to be

:23:04.:23:07.

seen voting for something your heart Look, many of your colleagues I

:23:07.:23:17.

seen voting for something your heart interviewed say that if the choice

:23:17.:23:24.

was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and

:23:24.:23:29.

leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in

:23:29.:23:33.

even on the status quo, wouldn't supporting the EU to leave now if I

:23:33.:23:41.

got chance. I think our economy supporting the EU to leave now if I

:23:41.:23:46.

investment, as in Washington last been if we were outside the EU.

:23:46.:23:55.

investment, as in Washington last week. We are trying to roll forward

:23:55.:24:02.

the prospect of free trade and I have to reassure Americans that

:24:02.:24:05.

the prospect of free trade and I are not likely to leave the EU to

:24:05.:24:10.

That is true but it also needs reform. The cry for reform, which is

:24:10.:24:15.

particularly Germany, is a good reform. The cry for reform, which is

:24:15.:24:23.

Even if David Cameron came back reform. The cry for reform, which is

:24:23.:24:25.

nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?

:24:25.:24:34.

one which is dwindling in comparison with others, in the modern world it

:24:34.:24:40.

would be dangerous. I also think the dangers of the Middle East and the

:24:40.:24:44.

dangers of some of the countries disengage. I will take that as a

:24:44.:24:54.

strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree

:24:54.:25:01.

persuaded when David delivers his reforms. The latest poll gives

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Labour a ten point lead over the Tories and the reason why it has a

:25:07.:25:11.

ten point lead is because UKIP are up there with 18% of the vote and

:25:11.:25:15.

ten point lead is because UKIP are the Tory vote has slumped in the

:25:15.:25:20.

Paul to 27%. How would you see off UKIP? By saying you need a strong

:25:20.:25:26.

Paul to 27%. How would you see off and effective Government. We faced

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terrible problems. Every Government I have been in has been behind in

:25:31.:25:36.

the polls. This Government is not as popular as the previous Government I

:25:36.:25:41.

have served in under the three previous prime ministers. When you

:25:41.:25:43.

get an election, people have to previous prime ministers. When you

:25:43.:25:46.

themselves who do we want to decide the issues of war and peace in this

:25:46.:25:53.

country? Who do we want to get us out of our economic problems. I

:25:53.:25:59.

don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. That generalised stuff will not

:25:59.:26:04.

don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. off UKIP. People will not listen to

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that. When people answer an opinion poll, they tell you how annoyed

:26:08.:26:12.

that. When people answer an opinion are by something that has recently

:26:12.:26:17.

upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government

:26:17.:26:21.

I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you

:26:21.:26:28.

have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern

:26:28.:26:37.

us? They did take over a calamitous important problems to be decided

:26:37.:26:45.

going forward. UKIP represents anti-immigration, anti-foreigners,

:26:45.:26:49.

anti-Europe, anti-politics but I don't think it will get 18% of the

:26:49.:26:52.

Thank you. Once upon a time, a politician whose career ended in

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disgrace might choose to lie low for a while, perhaps to spend a bit

:27:26.:27:29.

disgrace might choose to lie low for time tending the tulips and doing

:27:29.:27:31.

the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from

:27:31.:27:32.

prison only five months ago but Chris Huhne. He walked free from

:27:32.:27:35.

former Energy Secretary is already back in the public eye - a column in

:27:36.:27:39.

the Guardian, a job with a renewable interview. So is he working on a

:27:39.:27:43.

political rehabilitation? Chris Politics. The answer to that is

:27:43.:27:47.

clearly know, and thank you for inviting me back. You have set your

:27:47.:27:50.

career in politics is over so what does the future hold for you? I

:27:50.:27:55.

career in politics is over so what happy doing what I am doing, I am

:27:55.:27:58.

passionate about green energy and climate change, so I am doing things

:27:58.:28:03.

on that front in terms of business non-governmental organisations,

:28:03.:28:09.

on that front in terms of business I am doing a column for the Guardian

:28:09.:28:09.

on Mondays. You obviously get a I am doing a column for the Guardian

:28:09.:28:14.

of material from the Sunday Politics to write about. Have you embarked on

:28:14.:28:21.

political rehabilitation? It was clear from the point of view of

:28:21.:28:25.

political rehabilitation? It was George when I was sentenced, he

:28:25.:28:29.

rehabilitating you, because I had not offended for ten years, it was

:28:29.:28:33.

actually about stopping people like you, Andrew, Ron doing the same

:28:33.:28:39.

thing. It was a deterrent effect for the public. That is I think why

:28:39.:28:45.

thing. It was a deterrent effect for prosecution was brought. I had not

:28:45.:28:47.

offended for ten years on this, rehabilitate yourself in the public?

:28:47.:29:18.

coalition to the bitter end? Or should they re-establish their own

:29:18.:29:22.

identity? My view is that the Coalition agreement is for the whole

:29:22.:29:27.

Parliament, and the Lib Dems are going to stay, and should stay. What

:29:27.:29:34.

would be a good result for the Lib Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, 15

:29:34.:29:40.

seats? I think it will be an interesting election because I think

:29:40.:29:44.

you will have essentially three party leaders, all of whom are

:29:44.:29:48.

unpopular. It is almost unprecedented that they have

:29:48.:29:52.

negative ratings so it will be a battle between the walking wounded.

:29:52.:29:59.

In those circumstances, in my view, the Lib Dems can come out very

:29:59.:30:05.

well. But you will lose seats, won't you? It is far too early to say. If

:30:05.:30:13.

the Liberal Democrats do badly in next year's European elections, you

:30:13.:30:17.

could come fourth on fifth behind the Greens. Will Nick Clegg's

:30:17.:30:24.

leadership be in jeopardy? I've been in countless cycles where we've had

:30:24.:30:31.

very low poll ratings. The normal pickup to the subsequent general

:30:31.:30:35.

election on average has been 10 percentage points. So he's not in

:30:36.:30:40.

jeopardy? I think Nick will be there at the next general election. I

:30:40.:30:43.

think he'll lead the party into the next general election. I expect

:30:44.:30:48.

we'll do much better than most people think. If we are heading for

:30:48.:30:53.

another hung Parliament, which is what the Liberal Democrats want.

:30:53.:30:57.

Let's be honest, you'd rather be in coalition with the Labour Party than

:30:57.:31:01.

have a repeat of the Conservatives? One of the key things I sawed to

:31:01.:31:06.

colleagues, whatever your personal preference, I used to be a Labour

:31:06.:31:10.

Party member, you can derive from that I'm on the left of centre of

:31:10.:31:15.

the party. I always said to my colleagues in the party, it is

:31:15.:31:19.

absolutely colleagues in the party, it is

:31:19.:31:21.

the we are in politics because we are Liberal Democrats, not because

:31:21.:31:24.

we are either Conservatives or second best Labour. If you don't

:31:24.:31:29.

take that view, you don't have any bargaining position when it comes to

:31:29.:31:34.

coalition. You have to be able, genuinely, to do a coalition with

:31:34.:31:38.

either of the other parties. I understand that, but you'd prefer

:31:38.:31:42.

Labour? Your personal preference really should not come into this. It

:31:42.:31:46.

is about making sure you get the best possible deal for the things

:31:46.:31:51.

that your voters have voted for. If you get that with one party rather

:31:51.:31:56.

than another, that's fine. You stand up for Liberal Democrat values, not

:31:56.:32:00.

for Conservative or Labour second best values. You said you're keeping

:32:00.:32:05.

up your interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise a

:32:05.:32:12.

temporary price freeze? There's been pop ewe louse posturing. It is not a

:32:12.:32:18.

sensible policy. It was tried in California in 2,000 and 2001 which

:32:18.:32:23.

led to blackouts. We had the Prime Minister promising we should sift

:32:23.:32:28.

everybody automatically to the lowest possible tariff. So

:32:28.:32:32.

unfortunately we're at the stage in the political cycle where we are

:32:32.:32:38.

getting clap trap. You're against the freeze? It is a bad idea when we

:32:38.:32:43.

are trying to encourage investment. When the market can give us some of

:32:43.:32:47.

the lowest gas and electricity prices in Europe. Britain has

:32:47.:32:51.

son-in-law of the lowest? Not our base price? The other European Ian

:32:51.:32:54.

prices are only higher because they put a lot more taxes on to it? Our

:32:54.:32:59.

base energy prices are among the highest in Europe? No, if you look

:32:59.:33:04.

at EU comparisons in what goes out to people's households. That's after

:33:04.:33:06.

all the taxes have been put on them? to people's households. That's after

:33:06.:33:11.

. The Conservatives are claiming there are

:33:11.:33:14.

next for the badger cull ? The Government acknowledges the plant is

:33:14.:35:38.

not going according to plan. The badgers have moved the goalposts.

:35:38.:35:43.

And for the next 20 minutes I am joined by the Plymouth Conservative

:35:44.:35:46.

MP Oliver Colvile and label a councillor Kate Wheller from Dorset.

:35:46.:35:51.

This week we look at potholes. Potholes figures obtained by us show

:35:51.:35:58.

nearly 2000 people have made claims for damage caused I potholes in the

:35:58.:36:04.

last year. In death and there were 8000 claims and the regional cost

:36:04.:36:07.

runs into tens of thousands of pounds. This is something I know you

:36:07.:36:12.

feel strongly about, Oliver, and to prove it, we have a photo of you

:36:12.:36:15.

with your friend from the highways authority assessing one particular

:36:15.:36:21.

example. One in ten drivers has now told the AA they have had an

:36:21.:36:25.

accident or damaged their car because of a pothole and now they

:36:25.:36:30.

can claim. The Chancellor announced there would be more money given to

:36:30.:36:36.

local authorities, and I have been campaigning with pothole Peter of

:36:36.:36:42.

the Herald and it has been a great success. I want people to e—mail me

:36:42.:36:48.

and tell me where potholes are and I will write to the council. So you

:36:48.:36:53.

blame the council, not the Government? The money is there but

:36:53.:36:58.

the councils are not using it? The local authorities can bid for money

:36:58.:37:02.

from the gunmen to get this sorted out but we need to do this. —— can

:37:02.:37:12.

bid for money from the Government. I am worried that in six months it

:37:12.:37:16.

will be back to square one and what we really should be doing is

:37:16.:37:19.

resurfacing all those roads. There is money for that? There is not. You

:37:19.:37:25.

what working with Dorset council. Is this something that can be repaired

:37:25.:37:33.

more quickly, could councils be asking for more money? We are asking

:37:33.:37:39.

for money but whether it comes or not is another matter. But is it

:37:39.:37:44.

that we are able to fix these potholes? Why are we not doing it?

:37:44.:37:49.

Funding. Oliver says there is money for this. The Department for

:37:49.:37:56.

Transport spokesman said we have recently announced £12 billion for

:37:56.:38:00.

road maintenance and that would prepare about 90 million potholes.

:38:00.:38:02.

So they are claiming there is enough money. And I would argue we would

:38:02.:38:09.

have as much as we can implement but it will have to be spread through

:38:09.:38:15.

the country. OK. We have to move on. Pothole repair is of course just one

:38:15.:38:19.

of many demands on council budgets. We have talked a lot lately about

:38:19.:38:23.

warnings those budgets are about to reach breaking point especially in

:38:23.:38:26.

the countryside. Rowell MPs say there councils only get half the

:38:26.:38:32.

Government funding given to open ones. —— rural MPs. They took it to

:38:32.:38:40.

Government a game and once again the Government failed to be convinced by

:38:40.:38:46.

their argument. And once again, they failed to give up. We will mobilise

:38:47.:38:51.

the rural yeomanry to make sure we get our fair share of funding. What

:38:51.:38:56.

we are asking for is one tenth of 1% of the total budget to be shifted

:38:56.:39:01.

towards the rural macro authorities. His that too much to ask of this

:39:01.:39:08.

Government? I certainly do not think it is. In a moment we will discuss

:39:08.:39:12.

what the funding row might mean for everything from social workers to

:39:12.:39:18.

buses but does this report. —— at first this report.

:39:18.:39:21.

It is tough keeping services going with less money. In West Somerset

:39:21.:39:26.

the council is losing £100,000 a year and is facing bankruptcy. It is

:39:26.:39:30.

simply that per head of population of West Somerset, we are not getting

:39:30.:39:33.

enough income to run the services that the people deserve. There have

:39:33.:39:38.

been fears other authorities could be heading in the same direction.

:39:38.:39:43.

These small district and borough councils are facing a serious

:39:43.:39:49.

threat. And I urge the ministers to take it as seriously as it deserves.

:39:49.:39:54.

But there's little sympathy at the top. Three years ago, there were

:39:54.:39:57.

predictions of the end of local government as we knew it, of end of

:39:57.:40:02.

services. That has proved to be complete tosh. Torbay Council could

:40:02.:40:06.

have to cut an estimated £20 million from its spending over the next two

:40:06.:40:12.

years. In the past, the mayor suggested merging with other

:40:12.:40:15.

councils in Devon to form one large super—authority to save money. This

:40:15.:40:20.

week it has been reported that the mayor is so concerned about the

:40:20.:40:23.

financial situation here that he has asked the leader of Devon County

:40:23.:40:29.

Council to take Torbay Council over. But rural councils think it is even

:40:29.:40:33.

tougher for them, arguing it costs more to deliver services across

:40:33.:40:35.

large areas with small populations, and after a long—running campaign

:40:35.:40:39.

for a fairer share of the funding cake, the region's MPs began to feel

:40:39.:40:42.

like their concerns were being listened to. Is the minister

:40:42.:40:51.

confirming to MPs representing rural areas is that he is open for further

:40:51.:40:54.

discussion about the perceived disparity between rural and urban

:40:54.:41:00.

funding? Because I would want to hear from him a clarification that

:41:00.:41:04.

he is up for such discussions if he is inviting me to join him in the

:41:04.:41:08.

voting lobbies this evening. As I said in the debate on Monday, I have

:41:08.:41:13.

an open door policy. I am happy to continue that discussion. But during

:41:13.:41:16.

the conference season, these hopes seem to be dashed. Local councils in

:41:16.:41:21.

rural areas say they are being short—changed compared to urban

:41:21.:41:26.

areas, and vice versa. We cannot magic money which is not there. As

:41:26.:41:30.

Liam Byrne famously said to David Laws, there is no money left. I

:41:30.:41:35.

think we have been fair between urban areas and rural areas but of

:41:35.:41:38.

course all local councils are having to do more. A lot of your MPs think

:41:38.:41:43.

you are listening and think you might actually consider reforming

:41:43.:41:46.

that funding system. So they will be disappointed, then? We have made

:41:46.:41:50.

changes to the funding system. To be fair, Government MPs have been

:41:50.:41:53.

saying you have broadened the divide, it has got worse. I do not

:41:53.:41:57.

accept that. Often city areas are more dependent on grant than on

:41:57.:42:00.

council tax. Grant necessarily has been reduced. Politicians in the

:42:00.:42:05.

South West are refusing to give up but with a BBC poll this week

:42:05.:42:08.

suggesting 40% of people have not noticed the budget cuts it could be

:42:09.:42:12.

even harder for the rural funding campaigners to win their argument.

:42:12.:42:26.

Joining us to discuss this we have representatives of town and country.

:42:26.:42:29.

In London we have Andrew Carter from Centre for Cities and in the studio

:42:29.:42:35.

Dan Bates from the Rural Services Network. Welcome. Dan, Eric Pickles,

:42:35.:42:43.

the Secretary of State for local governments, said so far none of the

:42:43.:42:47.

figures he has heard of Canon convince him that rural areas need

:42:47.:42:50.

more money. He says these arguments have proved to be complete tosh. If

:42:50.:42:58.

you take the figures for 2013—14, you find that 50% gap is what there

:42:58.:43:04.

is between rural and urban areas. There is half as much funding a game

:43:04.:43:08.

for every person in an urban area than in a rural area. That

:43:08.:43:15.

translates into rural residents paying more per head in council tax

:43:15.:43:21.

to get less services. So if you are in rural macro person you pay £85

:43:21.:43:27.

more to get less services, because of the disparity. So where you

:43:27.:43:31.

live. Andrew, but does not sound fair. £85 per head more in rural

:43:31.:43:40.

areas and yet you get less services? Much of the money goes on

:43:40.:43:46.

a needs basis. In our urban areas the need is that much greater, so

:43:46.:43:49.

therefore they get more money because the need... The need for

:43:49.:43:54.

what is greater? What sort of things? If you look at the areas

:43:54.:43:59.

with the highest rates of deprivation across a number of

:43:59.:44:03.

issues, 80% of those neighbourhoods, the worst neighbourhoods in the UK,

:44:03.:44:08.

are in our urban areas. They have multiple needs. What sort of needs?

:44:08.:44:14.

Clearly up graffiti... ? We are addressing issues around

:44:14.:44:17.

unemployment, low incomes, poorer services, crime on those sort of

:44:17.:44:23.

social issues. That is where the money from Government is allocated.

:44:23.:44:29.

Andrew, I will just that to Dan. Do you accept that argument is that

:44:29.:44:34.

they do need more money? I agree urban areas have conflict issues but

:44:34.:44:38.

do they need 50% more per head in funding? The other point we make is

:44:38.:44:43.

about the cost of providing those services. Your first article was on

:44:43.:44:49.

potholes. If you can imagine potholes in areas as expansive as

:44:49.:44:55.

Devon, compared with Plymouth, the cost of repairing those potholes in

:44:55.:44:59.

Devon would be that much more, yet they are getting 50% less per head

:44:59.:45:05.

than the urban areas in funding and that is not fair. Dan says it is not

:45:05.:45:14.

fair. I am talking about my own constituency but the big Robin has

:45:14.:45:17.

been inheriting this awful deficit which we are trying to sort out.

:45:17.:45:28.

# Deficit. Local authorities need to be talking to one another and maybe

:45:28.:45:32.

the health service as well and the police, about how they can actually

:45:32.:45:36.

share common backroom staff as well, for instance, for things like

:45:36.:45:40.

human resources and things like that. Secondly, I do think there is

:45:40.:45:44.

a role for the Government to review what they are asking local

:45:44.:45:48.

authorities to do. I want to make sure the money will be spent on my

:45:48.:45:52.

potholes, doing the drains, those kind of things. Is unsatisfied? ——

:45:52.:46:07.

is Dan Bates satisfied? Not really. If you start from a base that is 50%

:46:07.:46:11.

lower per head and the cuts that are coming are pretty big, the

:46:11.:46:15.

Government has said we will make equal cuts now so those rural

:46:15.:46:21.

authorities starting on a lower base are taking more cuts. So you think

:46:21.:46:29.

that will hit rural areas harder? It is that much harder in rural areas.

:46:29.:46:35.

Kate, 40% of people, according to a BBC poll, said they have not

:46:35.:46:37.

actually noticed any cuts to services and some people think

:46:37.:46:41.

council services have actually improved. In which case the

:46:41.:46:44.

Government is right, isn't it? They can make these cuts and people have

:46:44.:46:50.

not noticed. That is a testament to how hard the local councils have

:46:50.:46:54.

been working. It has nothing to do with the swingeing cuts that the

:46:54.:46:59.

Government are continuing to impose upon us. And this idea that this is

:47:00.:47:05.

all the cause of the previous Government, people are not stupid.

:47:05.:47:11.

He pulled now what caused the recession. What caused the recession

:47:11.:47:15.

was the greed of bankers, and the Scotmid have done nothing to address

:47:15.:47:22.

that situation at all. —— the Government. Ordinary people are

:47:22.:47:28.

paying for that now. Services they need just not going to be provided.

:47:28.:47:35.

They cannot be provided on less and less money. Do you think there are

:47:35.:47:40.

too many votes in the cities, that we are trying to target city

:47:40.:47:44.

voters? Is that what is happening here? I do not think so. The

:47:44.:47:48.

politics is more diverse. I would like to come back to this point.

:47:48.:47:54.

This issue about scale and size. You talked about some of the smaller

:47:54.:47:57.

rural councils but clearly the issue is that some of these councils are

:47:57.:48:02.

quite small. If you go to urban districts, some smaller ones, they

:48:02.:48:06.

are suffering and struggling with exactly the same issues. So should

:48:06.:48:11.

all councils be bigger, so you can book by and... ? Possibly. I do not

:48:11.:48:18.

know whether we are saying they should all be bigger but what we

:48:18.:48:22.

have seen in different parts of the country, urban to urban, rural to

:48:22.:48:25.

rural, councils coming together to think about how they can deliver

:48:25.:48:31.

more effectively. Refit, Oliver, have you any sympathy for York

:48:31.:48:35.

colleagues like Neil Parish and Geoffrey Cox, they feel so

:48:35.:48:38.

passionate about this and yet all the mud are not listening to them? I

:48:38.:48:47.

have enormous sympathy but there are local authorities, certainly in

:48:47.:48:49.

London, where they have been able not only to make those reductions

:48:49.:48:54.

but also to cut the council tax, and that is something that is very

:48:54.:48:57.

important. Labour is talking all the time about the cost of living and we

:48:57.:49:02.

need to talk about keeping the council tax down. Thank you.

:49:02.:49:08.

This week, the Government revealed its trial badger cull in West

:49:08.:49:11.

Somerset did not meet the target for the number of badges its own

:49:11.:49:14.

scientists say needed to be killed for the chance of tackling the

:49:14.:49:18.

disease in cattle. Welfare groups say the Cole has failed to meet any

:49:18.:49:22.

of its aims but ministers insist they are happy with the way the

:49:22.:49:27.

trial was carried out. At the end of August, protesters

:49:27.:49:32.

were angry as the six—week badger cull kicked off in West Somerset but

:49:32.:49:36.

halfway through, unbeknown to us, alarm bells started to ring. One

:49:36.:49:39.

former DEFRA worker from Cornwall was called up out of the blue and

:49:40.:49:47.

asked to provide ten more shooters. Clearly the focal was an act of

:49:47.:49:51.

desperation. If were going well, why did they phone? —— the phone call

:49:52.:49:57.

was an act of desperation. It is under resourced. The resources

:49:57.:50:02.

needed were immense. The Government set article 70% of badges in West

:50:02.:50:09.

Somerset during the six—week trial. —— set out to kill. In fact, they

:50:10.:50:17.

have only killed 59%. So why is 70% the magic number? Many experts

:50:17.:50:20.

believe killing a high number of badges over 70% is crucial because

:50:20.:50:27.

the trial showed that a low kill rate will actually increase TB

:50:27.:50:30.

infection in cattle, as fleeing badgers can widely spread the

:50:30.:50:35.

disease. 850 badgers have so far been shot, at a revised estimate of

:50:35.:50:42.

1450 but originally, DEFRA have all there were 2400 badgers in the West

:50:42.:50:50.

Somerset area. It would be unusual for badger populations to change to

:50:50.:50:57.

such a degree. There are concerns that there has been interference.

:50:57.:51:02.

Interference with the methods used to count badgers, which could help

:51:02.:51:08.

to explain the difference between the estimates for now and last

:51:08.:51:15.

October. It is embarrassing for the Government. Earlier this week on BBC

:51:15.:51:18.

Sport light, the environment secretary loaned the badgers. The

:51:18.:51:23.

badgers have moved the goalposts. You are dealing with a wild animal.

:51:23.:51:27.

Those naughty badgers! They are playing with numbers. It appears

:51:27.:51:35.

this year the numbers of badgers are too low. Last year the Government

:51:35.:51:38.

said there were too many. The plug was pulled just before the 2012

:51:38.:51:44.

badger cull. Do you remember all the fuss last year? The controversial

:51:44.:51:50.

cull of badgers has been called off... And does this sound

:51:50.:51:54.

familiar? There was some doubt about whether enough badgers could be

:51:55.:51:59.

killed in the pilot areas before December. The companies set up to go

:51:59.:52:03.

ahead with the badger cull had doubts they would be able to

:52:03.:52:08.

eradicate 70% in the necessary time. Those badgers, they are at it again.

:52:08.:52:12.

Some MPs said the Government may have made a mistake facing so much

:52:12.:52:19.

emphasis on numbers. It will always be difficult to estimate wild

:52:19.:52:21.

animals as to how many are there but what I will repeat, and what I will

:52:21.:52:29.

die in a ditch over, is that these badgers are diseased and giving

:52:29.:52:35.

these diseases to the cattle. A farm in Devon. Some of the cattle here

:52:35.:52:41.

have had TB in the past. DEFRA said last year 38,000 cattle were killed

:52:41.:52:44.

in Britain. The company running the badger cull has just been granted a

:52:44.:52:52.

three—week exception. —— extension. The farmer here hope is that he can

:52:52.:52:59.

have clean badgers and cattle living side—by—side.

:52:59.:53:01.

Was Owen Paterson right to say that the badgers have moved the

:53:01.:53:05.

goalposts? Be surprised that wild animals do not do as they're told is

:53:05.:53:14.

amazing, isn't it? I am in support of anything that is helping the

:53:14.:53:19.

British farming industry but this badger cull has been so badly

:53:19.:53:26.

managed. It has been based on inaccurate data. How on earth can

:53:26.:53:29.

they expect meaningful results from something that is just farcical? So

:53:29.:53:33.

Owen Paterson calling it a success too would disagree with? Yes. Has

:53:33.:53:42.

this been a success? It is a difficult story. I am told that the

:53:42.:53:48.

lungs of badgers come like sponge. It is incredibly painful. So to

:53:48.:53:55.

identify badgers that are ill to kill them is very difficult. Why

:53:55.:54:01.

don't you vaccinate? It takes a long time and you have to do it on an

:54:01.:54:05.

annual basis so you have to catch them time and time again. The

:54:05.:54:09.

problem is, do we want to make sure that our cattle is not going to be

:54:09.:54:14.

diseased with TB? Are you going to eat a steak which has got TB in it?

:54:14.:54:18.

Lets move back to Owen Paterson calling this a success. The thing

:54:18.:54:22.

is, you have not killed as many badgers as you set out to do. You

:54:22.:54:26.

underestimated the number of badgers in the first place. Now you are

:54:26.:54:30.

having to extend the badger cull. How is that a success? We have

:54:30.:54:37.

actually made quite a lot of mad of progress on it.

:54:37.:54:42.

# Quite a lot of progress. We are going to make sure it does not

:54:42.:54:48.

continue to spread. How on earth will you manage to roll this out

:54:48.:54:52.

across other areas of the country when you could not make a success of

:54:52.:54:56.

this tiny controlled area? It does not bode well, does it, for a

:54:56.:55:01.

nationwide project? When you cannot cope with a tiny area. It is a very

:55:01.:55:07.

difficult area in which to actually deal with because we are very rural.

:55:07.:55:14.

Are you surprised that badgers are in a oral area? ! Not at all. ——

:55:14.:55:28.

rural area. We need to see what has happened during the course of the

:55:28.:55:33.

pilot scheme. I would love to share your confidence in this. It is

:55:33.:55:38.

interesting that with the increase in badgers we have seen a deep

:55:38.:55:45.

crease in hedgehogs. —— at the crease. Unfortunately we have

:55:45.:55:52.

reached the end of that segment. It is time for a regular round—up of

:55:52.:55:59.

the political week in 60 Seconds. A bitter row erupted over plans for

:55:59.:56:03.

1500 homes on the outskirts of Truro, the city council stepping up

:56:03.:56:10.

its efforts to block them. We want to see affordable housing in Truro,

:56:10.:56:14.

investment, not on greenfields. Taunton MP Jeremy Brown lost his job

:56:15.:56:18.

as Home Office minister, with MPs Dan Rogerson and George Eustace both

:56:18.:56:26.

getting jobs at DEFRA. So Cornwall now has two Government MPs.

:56:26.:56:32.

Questions about nuclear safety at Devonport were raised by Alison

:56:32.:56:35.

Seabeck, who held onto her job as Shadow Defence Minister. What we

:56:35.:56:39.

need to understand now is why the processes went wrong, what the MoD

:56:39.:56:42.

have done to ensure that further failsafes are in place.

:56:42.:56:47.

Plymouth Council has threatened to begin charging for evening parking

:56:47.:56:51.

on the city's streets. Teignbridge councillors pulled the

:56:51.:56:58.

plug on funding 17 public loos. I am completely mystified as to why this

:56:58.:56:59.

decision was taken. Let's look at the issue of parking.

:56:59.:57:13.

Plymouth to introduce evening parking charges. It is tempting for

:57:13.:57:18.

cash—strapped councils to start increasing parking charges. Is this

:57:18.:57:24.

happening in Dorset? I can only speak for Weymouth and Portland. We

:57:24.:57:28.

are about to remove overnight parking charges. Would you like to

:57:28.:57:34.

see them follow suit in Plymouth? Absolutely. A lot of people come to

:57:34.:57:38.

the city centre to use the theatre and pubs. We need to make sure

:57:38.:57:44.

people are encouraged to come here. You cannot have it with ways. It is

:57:44.:57:51.

an issue to get people to come and use the city centre, deduce all the

:57:51.:57:56.

facilities we have. I have to stop you because sadly that is the Sunday

:57:56.:58:01.

Politics in the South West. Thank you to my guests, Oliver and Kate.

:58:01.:58:08.

The programme is you to my guests, Oliver and Kate.

:58:08.:58:10.

and these tactics were plain wrong. That is all we have time for. Back

:58:10.:58:13.

ministerial team this week with That is all we have time for. Back

:58:13.:58:27.

commentators calling it the purge of the Blairites, but one poor lamb who

:58:27.:58:32.

fell victim to this perch was Diane Abbott, not somebody who worshipped

:58:32.:58:37.

at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on the backbenches means she can pursue

:58:37.:58:41.

other interests such as attending the Cheltenham literary Festival,

:58:41.:58:48.

and where she joins us now. Welcome. Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

:58:48.:58:52.

think the thing that did it for Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

:58:52.:58:59.

was me coming out on Syria. This was Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

:58:59.:59:05.

a purge of the Blairites, how did you become collateral damage? I

:59:06.:59:10.

a purge of the Blairites, how did no idea but the fact that I was

:59:10.:59:12.

a purge of the Blairites, how did one member of the front bench to go

:59:12.:59:15.

public about my concerns on Syria probably tipped my enemies in the

:59:15.:59:22.

party machinery over the edge. But he went your way on Syria, in the

:59:22.:59:26.

end he agreed with your line on Syria so why would that be for

:59:26.:59:33.

dismissal? I agree with you - you're fired. Because I actually spoke

:59:34.:59:37.

dismissal? I agree with you - you're and it was the fact that I spoke up,

:59:37.:59:40.

which was like a pebble falling and it was the fact that I spoke up,

:59:40.:59:49.

forest or something. I am glad I spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like

:59:49.:59:56.

people around them than who are outspoken, who speak their minds? I

:59:56.:00:12.

think he's convinced he needs people who read from the scripts. People

:00:12.:00:15.

increasingly upset that even though who read from the scripts. People

:00:15.:00:21.

I was speaking party policy, I was reading from the script. Since Mr

:00:22.:00:28.

Miliband bid you farewell, you've said he's doing his best. Is his

:00:28.:00:34.

best good enough? I am sure it will be. I've always said the Labour

:00:34.:00:39.

Party chose the right Miliband. be. I've always said the Labour

:00:39.:00:44.

will remain loyal to him on the backbenches. You're going to be

:00:44.:00:50.

loyal? However, I want to join in the debate. You're going to be

:00:50.:00:55.

loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal both in public and private when others

:00:55.:00:59.

were bitching about him behind the from the backbenches, I hope to

:00:59.:01:05.

were bitching about him behind the involved in the debate particularly

:01:06.:01:08.

around nick policy. Et's see how loyal you are. You must be happy

:01:08.:01:12.

with all this new tough talk on welfare and free schools? Well,

:01:12.:01:20.

with all this new tough talk on think both Rachel and Tristram are

:01:21.:01:24.

very talented. We're going to have to see how this all plays out. The

:01:24.:01:29.

issue of free schools, they are to see how this all plays out. The

:01:29.:01:33.

thing. But diminishing the role to see how this all plays out. The

:01:33.:01:35.

local authorities is another. There need strong local authorities. I'm

:01:35.:01:43.

local authorities is another. There sure Tristram will be aware of that.

:01:43.:01:45.

As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel knows some of the cuts the Tories

:01:45.:01:51.

have made have been counter prod ublingtive in -- productive in terms

:01:51.:01:56.

of spending. You wouldn't call that your full-hearted endorsement, would

:01:56.:01:58.

you? What are you on, and lieu? your full-hearted endorsement, would

:01:58.:02:06.

haven't seen the detail of Rachel's new position. You have to wait and

:02:06.:02:11.

see the detail. It is in the papers. You haven't stopped reading the

:02:11.:02:15.

papers. It was the Observer. When will you announce you're running for

:02:16.:02:21.

Mayor of London? I have no plans to announce that I'm running for Mayor

:02:21.:02:26.

Mayor of London? I have no plans to of London. No plans. That's what

:02:26.:02:26.

Michael his I will Tyne used to of London. No plans. That's what

:02:26.:02:30.

me. He had no plans to run against Margaret Thatcher. Are these the

:02:30.:02:35.

same kind of plans you have? I know. No, no. I have no plans. You know

:02:35.:02:42.

going for it. Everybody knows you're going for it. Just fess up to your

:02:42.:02:52.

old mate! ! I have no plans to run. If you did run, who would be, what

:02:52.:02:58.

would be your biggest threat other than yourself? I think there's a lot

:02:58.:03:07.

of very talented candidates, David They are all talented. I would have

:03:08.:03:16.

to weigh up the field. What do you think your chances would be of

:03:16.:03:21.

getting the taxi drivers' vote? Well, you know, Andrew, some of

:03:21.:03:28.

getting the taxi drivers' vote? most loyal viewers of This Week

:03:28.:03:32.

getting the taxi drivers' vote? were taxi drivers and their wives.

:03:32.:03:35.

I'm not frightened of reaching out to middle England. You will find if

:03:35.:03:39.

you walk around London sub usual ya, they all know me and they all love

:03:39.:03:46.

This Week. Love This Week. I thought you were going to say they all love

:03:46.:03:50.

you. One person who loves you, is Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy

:03:50.:03:55.

chappie on Thursday night. You can't see it but you can hear. This is

:03:55.:04:01.

what he said. I was disappointed for her. She had decided to leave this

:04:01.:04:07.

something else in politics. She wanted to do something serious.

:04:07.:04:12.

something else in politics. She had taken what appeared to be a

:04:12.:04:14.

something else in politics. She position but taken it extremely

:04:14.:04:16.

serious and was committed to the issues. I'm quite disappointed for

:04:16.:04:23.

her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a thing. You just mentioned about

:04:23.:04:29.

London mayor, did Diane not ask thing. You just mentioned about

:04:29.:04:38.

Someone who's an eminent person thing. You just mentioned about

:04:38.:04:40.

this programme, I don't know how he could do that. I think Michael's

:04:40.:04:44.

missing you. Are you free this Thursday night? Make him a happy

:04:44.:04:51.

man, come back to the fold. I think I may be free this Thursday night.

:04:51.:04:55.

So, if he'll have me, I'll be there. My people will speak to your people.

:04:55.:05:00.

We'll get it sorted out. Diane, watch that big vase behind you,

:05:00.:05:04.

you're not insured for. That thanks Does she have a chance of being

:05:05.:05:11.

Mayor of London? She's very well known as Michael pointed out. That

:05:11.:05:13.

is important. People who are outside known as Michael pointed out. That

:05:13.:05:20.

the party fold have traditionally done well in the mayoral election.

:05:20.:05:21.

The job of being a London mayor done well in the mayoral election.

:05:22.:05:27.

running an economy the size of a nation. It is a very serious job.

:05:27.:05:31.

There may be problems with her running? That was a transparent

:05:31.:05:39.

There may be problems with her for it. She's potentially a very

:05:39.:05:43.

compelling Coll ticks. People have left-winger but she's quite tough

:05:43.:05:52.

and conservative. Michael Gove said he had fallen in love with Diane

:05:53.:06:00.

which That's one vote he has. What do you think? I thing about Diane

:06:00.:06:07.

Abbott is she has a fantastic way of connecting. She has a really good

:06:07.:06:11.

way of connecting wi people. She would be a very strong candidate in

:06:11.:06:17.

candidate. It will probably be a Labour win next time. Depends, if

:06:17.:06:23.

Labour wins the 2015 election it may be more difficult. There's a danger

:06:23.:06:29.

for Labour that Diane is the big personality liked by the party

:06:29.:06:31.

primary but isn't necessarily a personality liked by the party

:06:31.:06:38.

in come the London general election? That's true. London is traditionally

:06:38.:06:43.

a Labour city. But Boris managed to win as an outsider. There are big

:06:43.:06:49.

dangers for Labour with that. I think, as I said before, somebody

:06:49.:06:53.

who seems a bit independent from their own party machinery tend to do

:06:53.:07:00.

We've only had mayors so far that were independent? Indeed. And how

:07:00.:07:06.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. well Ken Livingstone did last time.

:07:06.:07:10.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. He was and is much more left-wing

:07:10.:07:12.

than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't He was and is much more left-wing

:07:12.:07:21.

stray on Syria, it was immigration. Why was Jeremy brown replaced by

:07:21.:07:29.

This is very much to do with Clegg deciding he has to go back to those

:07:29.:07:34.

people who abandoned the Liberal Democrats the day they went into

:07:34.:07:38.

coalition with the Conservatives really, and convince them there

:07:38.:07:43.

coalition with the Conservatives some holy areas of policy, sacred

:07:43.:07:47.

areas which they will defend. That includes civil liberties. In the

:07:47.:07:49.

Home Office, that incident with includes civil liberties. In the

:07:49.:07:52.

immigration vans went down very badly across the whole nation. Went

:07:52.:07:58.

down particularly badly with Liberal Democrats and voters. In the Home

:07:58.:08:03.

somebody there to put a shield on purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg

:08:03.:08:13.

has won the argument against the left, Vince Cable on the economy,

:08:13.:08:18.

away day in July, briefings say DrCable's been put in his box. He's

:08:18.:08:22.

won the argument on economic policy against the left. When it comes

:08:23.:08:27.

won the argument on economic policy the touchstone issue in the Home

:08:27.:08:29.

Office, he wants to shore up that vote on the left. And please The

:08:29.:08:33.

Guardian. This is important for something else going on which is

:08:33.:08:39.

that Nick Clegg has to keep his parliamentary party happy. That

:08:39.:08:44.

involves giving them ministerial jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats

:08:44.:08:48.

losing their jobs, Michael Moore, because vacancies have to be created

:08:48.:08:59.

for number people to come in. By Liberal Democrat MPs will have been

:08:59.:09:07.

on the payroll. It is effective party management. I want to move on

:09:07.:09:13.

to press regulation. Brian Leveson's famous report, appeared before the

:09:13.:09:15.

parliamentary select committee. famous report, appeared before the

:09:15.:09:20.

will run you a clip from Connor politicians got involved in this. We

:09:20.:09:32.

moved away from the press 300 years ago. The centr commitment is Lord

:09:32.:09:37.

Leveson wanted a system the press self-regulation. This is state

:09:37.:09:45.

involvement which I worry about profoundly. He sits on the media

:09:45.:09:51.

interviews and investigations into the media. Chris Huhne said earlier

:09:51.:09:56.

he thought all the newspapers would sign up to the Government-backed

:09:56.:10:01.

Royal Charter. I think he's totally should. But he did say they would. I

:10:01.:10:08.

think he's wrong. They won't sign up. All the mood music when that

:10:08.:10:13.

Royal Charter was agreed on Friday was they would not sign up. It is

:10:13.:10:20.

Maria Miller, is essentially saying to the press industry, if you don't

:10:20.:10:22.

sign up, the Royal charter will to the press industry, if you don't

:10:22.:10:25.

ahead. I cannot control the Labour to the press industry, if you don't

:10:25.:10:31.

industry is wind the clock back to the press industry, if you don't

:10:31.:10:33.

what they are calling the Puttnam stage. That was earlier this year,

:10:33.:10:41.

Lord Puttnam was tack amendments which would introduce statutory

:10:41.:10:45.

regulation. Maria Miller says you statutory legislation but if you

:10:45.:10:55.

don't sign up to this, it will be a lot worse. Will that work? Playing

:10:55.:11:02.

the good cop, bad cop routine? Will that pressurise everyone to sign up.

:11:02.:11:06.

Lots of people are saying this will be a club with no members. It won't

:11:06.:11:11.

work. As Nick and I broke the story last week that the Government was

:11:11.:11:17.

going to reject the newspaper-backed one, I'm certain that the newspapers

:11:17.:11:21.

now, most of them maybe, not all, but most, will go the legal route

:11:21.:11:28.

and to judicial review on what the Government's proposing and will

:11:29.:11:33.

and to judicial review on what the it to strains Bowring where freedom

:11:33.:11:34.

of the press is enshrined. They it to strains Bowring where freedom

:11:34.:11:42.

fight this? There is enough fury amongst Fleet Street to result in

:11:42.:11:45.

that. The big political question going forward is which of the party

:11:45.:11:50.

leaders does the press blame the most for the emergence of press

:11:50.:11:53.

regulation? The Tories are very confident they'll blame Ed Miliband

:11:53.:11:59.

the most. They'll target him before 2015. David Cameron gave us Brian

:11:59.:12:04.

Leveson. You appoint a judge who shouldn't be surprised with what you

:12:04.:12:12.

got in the Leveson report? I big chunk of press will look at David

:12:12.:12:16.

Cameron saying, you were the guy who intended what will happen. If he had

:12:16.:12:30.

have appointed Brian Leveson. If they face more punitive fines over

:12:30.:12:33.

Labour ale cases they take that they face more punitive fines over

:12:33.:12:38.

Europe. The Daily Mail and the tallest presumably will have to

:12:38.:12:45.

suspend their campaign of Britain to leave the European Convention of

:12:45.:12:51.

suspend that. We must never come out Churchill was behind it. He was

:12:51.:13:00.

indeed. But it is actually a major constitutional issue whether you

:13:00.:13:01.

regulate the press or not. There was constitutional issue whether you

:13:01.:13:06.

a lot of ill feeling that this Marie ya miller statement was snubbing out

:13:06.:13:11.

on Friday afternoon. Somebody said freedom of the press too important

:13:12.:13:17.

to sneak out on afully afternoon. The whole subject should be treated

:13:17.:13:21.

with respect. We've run out of time. I'll be back next Sunday with the

:13:21.:13:28.

Communities Secretary Eric Pickles at our usual time of 11.00am. If

:13:28.:13:38.

Andrew Neil and Lucy Fisher are joined by the new Scottish secretary, Alistair Carmichael, Conservative cabinet minister Ken Clarke, former Liberal Democrat cabinet minister Chris Huhne and Labour MP Diane Abbott.


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