10/11/2013 Sunday Politics South West


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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband's on


the war path over pay day loans, your energy bill and what he calls


the bedroom tax. His spinners say he's resurgent though the polls


don't show it. We'll be talking to his right hand woman, Labour's


Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman. From resurgent to insurgent. Nigel Farage


won an award this week for being a political insurgent. We'll be


talking to the UKIP leader. In the South West: The concern for


jobs at Devonport Dockyard and as the council funding row continues,


we ask if the Tories are losing the countryside.


It is free choice. In London, the row over the super sewer rumbles on.


And with me, fresh from their success at yesterday's Star Wars


auditions, Darth Vader. Obi Wan Kenobi and R2D2. Congratulations on


your new jobs. We'll miss you. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh.


First, the talks with Iran in Geneva. They ended last night


without agreement despite hopes of a breakthrough. America and its allies


didn't think Iran was prepared to go far enough to freeze its nuclear


programme. But some progress has been made and there's to be another


meeting in ten days' time, though at a lower level. The Foreign


Secretary, William Hague, had this to say a little earlier. On the


question of, or will it happen in the next few weeks? There is a good


chance of that. We will be trying again on 20th, 21st of November and


negotiators will be trying again. We will keep an enormous amount of


energy and persistence behind solving this. Will that be a deal


which will please everyone? No, it will not. Compromises will need to


be made. I had discussions with Israeli ministers yesterday and put


the case for the kind of deal we are looking


the case for the kind of deal we are interests of the whole world,


including interests of the whole world,


the world, to reach a diplomatic agreement we can be confident in in


this issue. This otherwise will threaten the world with nuclear


proliferation and conflict in the future. The interesting thing about


this is that it seems future. The interesting thing about


prepared to go far enough over the Iraq heavy water plutonium reactor


it is building. The people who took the toughest line - the French.


France has always had a pretty tough line on Iran. They see it as a


disruptive influence in Lebanon I am reasonably optimistic a deal will


be done later this month when the talks reconvene. Western economic


sanctions have had such an impact on Iran domestic league. They have


pushed inflation up to 40%. Dashes-macro domestically. The new


president had a campaign pledge saying, I will deal with sanctions.


I actually think, by the end of this year, we will see progress in these


talks. Should we be optimistic? The next round of talks will be at


official level. The place to watch will be Israel. The language which


has been coming out of there is still incredibly angry, incredibly


defensive. They do not want a deal at all. Presumably John Kerry has to


go away and tried to get Israel to be quiet about it, even if they


cannot be happy about it. They cannot agree to a deal which allows


the Iraq reactor with plutonium heavy water. You do not need that


with a peaceful nuclear power programme will stop that is why the


Israelis are so nervous. If there is an international deal, Israel could


still bomb that but it would be impossible. The French tactics are


interesting. It says the French blocked it in part because they are


trying to carry favour with Israel but also the Gulf Arab states, who


are really nervous about and Iranians nuclear capability. Who is


that? Saudi Arabia. Newsnight had a story saying that Pakistan is


prepared to provide them with nuclear weapons. You are right about


Saudi Arabia. They are much more against this deal than Israel. Who


is Herman van Rompuy's favourite MEP? It is probably not Nigel


Farage. He plummeted to the bottom of the EU president's Christmas card


list after comparing him to a bank clerk with the charisma of a damp


rag. And he's been at it again this week. Have a look. Today is November


the 5th, a big celebration festival day in England. That was an attempt


to blow up the Houses of Parliament with dynamite and destroy the


Constitution. You have taken the Dahl, technocratic approach to all


of these things. What you and your colleagues save time and again you


talk about initiatives and what you are going to do about unemployment.


The reality is nothing in this union is getting better. The accounts have


not been signed off for 18 years. I am now told it is 19 and you are


doing your best to tone down any criticism. Whatever growth figures


you may have, they are anaemic. Youth unemployment in the


Mediterranean is over 50% in several states. You will notice there is a


rise in opposition dashed real opposition. Much of it ugly


opposition, not stuff that I would want to link hands with. And Nigel


Farage joins me now. Let me put to you what the editor of the Sun had


to say. He says, UKIP will peak at the European election and then it


will begin to get marginalised as we get closer to 2015 because there is


now that clear blue water between Labour and the Tories. What do you


say to that? There may be layered blue water on energy pricing but on


Eastern Europe, there is no difference at all. When Ed Miliband


offers the referendum to match Cameron, even that argument on


Europe will be gone. The one thing that will keep UKIP strong, heading


towards 2015, is if people think in some constituencies we can win. I


cannot sit here right now and say that will be the case. If we get


over the hurdle of the European elections clearly, I think there


will be grounds to say that UKIP can win seats in Westminster. You are


going to run? Without a shadow of a doubt. I do not know which


constituency. The welcome I got in Edinburgh was not that friendly


Edinburgh is not everything in Scotland. I think we have a


realistic chance of winning those elections. If we do that, we will


have the momentum behind us. You might be the biggest party after the


May elections. The National front is likely to do very well in France as


well. They have won the crucial by-election in the South of France.


Have you talked about joining full season in Parliament? The leader has


tried to take the movement into a different direction than her father.


The man she beat, to become leader, actually attended the BNP


conference. The problem she has with her party and we have with her party


is that anti-Semitism is too deep and we will not be doing a deal with


the French national government. You can guarantee you will not be


joining such groups. I can guarantee that. Let's move on to Europe. Let's


accept that the pro-Europeans exaggerate the loss of jobs that


would follow the departure of Britain from the UK. Is there no


risk of jobs whatsoever? No risk whatsoever. There is no risk at all.


There have been some weak and lazy arguments put around about this We


will go on doing business - go on doing trade with Europe. We will


have increased opportunities to do trade deals with the rest of the


world and they will create jobs The head of Nissan, the head of Hitachi


and CBI many other voices in British business, when they all expressed


concern about the potential loss of jobs and incoming investment, we


should just ignore them. With Nissan, the BBC News is making this


a huge story. The boss did not say what was reported. He said there was


a potential danger to his future investment. They have already made


the investments. They have built the plant in Sunderland, which they say


is operating well. We should be careful of what bosses of big


businesses say. This man said they may have two leaves Sunderland if we


did not join the euro. I do not take that seriously. As for the CBI, they


wanted us to join the euro and now they do not. Even within the CBI,


there is a significant minority saying, we do not agree with what


the CBI director-general is saying. The former boss of the organisation


is saying we need a referendum and we need a referendum soon. It


depends on the renegotiation. There is not the uniformity. What we are


beginning to see in the world, is, manufacturing and small businesses


are a lot more voices saying, the costs of membership outweigh any


potential benefit. If you look at the polls, if Mr Cameron does


repatriate some powers and he joins with Labour, the Lib Dems, the


Nationalists in Scotland and Wales, most of business, all of the unions


to say we should stay in, you are going to lose, aren't you? In 1 75,


the circumstances were exactly the same. Mr Wilson promised a


renegotiation and he got very little. The establishment gathered


around him and they voted for us to stay in. I do not think that will


happen now. The scales have fallen. We do not want to be governed by


Herman Van Rompuy and these people. These people are Eurosceptic but


they do not seem to feel strongly enough about it that they are going


to defy all the major parties they vote for, companies that employ


them, unions they are members of. I am absolutely confident there will


be a lot voices in business saying, we need to take this opportunity to


break free, give ourselves a chance of a low regulation lowball trader.


-- global trade. In 1970 53 small publications said to vote yes. I am


not contemplating losing. The most important thing is to get the


referendum. If UKIP is not strong, there will not be a referendum.


Earlier in the year, your party issued a leaflet about the remaining


sample parents being able to come to this country. The EU will allow 29


million Bulgarians and remaining is to come to the UK. That is


technically correct but we both know that is not the case. It is an open


door to these people. Why take the risk? By make out there are 29


million people? I stand by that verdict. It is an open door. 29


million are not going to come. They can if they want. Also 29 million


people from France can come. After these countries have joined, we will


do another leaflet saying that Mr Cameron wants to open the door to 70


million people from Turkey. That is scaremongering. I would not say


that. We have a million young British workers between 16 and 4


without work. A lot of them want work and we do not need another


massive oversupply in the unskilled labour market. Why did you have such


a bad time on question Time this week? The folk that did not buy your


anti-immigration stick. Do you think that group of people in the room was


representative of the voters of Boston? What would make you think it


was unrepresentative? When the county council elections took place


this year in Boston, of the seven seats, UKIP won five and almost won


the other two. I don't think that audience reflected that, but that


doesn't matter. How an audience is put together, how a panel is put


together, on one programme, it doesn't mean much at all. It shows


that your anti-immigrant measure doesn't fly as easily as you hoped


it would? The opinion polls which will be launched on Monday that we


are conducting and nearing completion, they show two things.


Firstly, an astonishing number of people who think it's irresponsible


and wrong to open the doer to Romania and Bulgaria, secondly and


crucially, a number of people whose vote in the European elections and


subsequent general elections may be determined by the immigration


issues. This does matter. It would be the perfect run group the


European elections in May for you if a lot of Bulgarians and remainians


flooded in. You would like that to happen? I think it will happen.


Whether I like it or not, it will happen. You think it will be good


for you, it will stir things up If you say to people in poor countries,


you can come here, get a job, have a safety net of a benefits system


claim child allowance for your kids in Bucharest, people will come You


are ready with the arguments already? You will be disappointed if


only ten turn up? Whether lots come or not we should. Taking the risk


and yes, we are going to make it a major issue in the European


election. Let's leave it there. Thank you very much, Nigel Farage.


The summer of 2013 was not good for Ed Miliband, with questions over his


leadership, low ratings and complaints about no policies. He


bounced back with a vengeance at the Labour Conference in September,


delivering a speech which this week won the spectator political speech


of the year aword. In that speech he focussed on the cost-of-living and


promised a temporary freeze on energy prices. Even said this. The


next election isn't just going to be about policy. It's going to be about


how we lead and the character we show. I've got a message for the


Tories today. If they want to have a debate, about leadership and


character, be my guest And if you want to know the difference between


me and David Cameron, here is an easy way to remember it. When it was


Murdoch v the McCanns, he took the side of Murdoch. When it was the


tobacco lobby versus the cancer charities, he took the side of the


tobacco lobby. When the millionaires wanted a tax cut as people pay the


bedroom tax, he took the side of the millionaires. A come to think of it,


here is an easier way to remember it. David Cameron was a Prime


Minister who introduced the bedroom tax. I'll be the Prime Minister who


repeals the bedroom tax There we go, that will go down with the party


faithful on Tuesday. There will be a debate on the bedroom tax. Labour's


Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman, joints me now. Let's begin with the


bedroom tax or bedroom subsidy. Nearly 11% of people who've come off


Housing Benefits all together after their spare room subsidy was


stopped, isn't that proof that reform was necessary? No. I think


that the whole way that the bet room tax has been attempted to be


justified is completely wrong. What it's said is that it will actually


help take people off the waiting lists by putting them into homes


that have been vacated by people who've downsized by being


incentivised by the bedroom tax so basically if you are a council


tenant or Housing Association tenant in a property with spare bedrooms,


then because the penalty is imposed, you will move to a smaller property.


That is the justification for it. But actually, something like 96 of


the people who're going to be hit by the bedroom tax, there isn't a


smaller property for them to move into. I understand that. Therefore


they are, like the people in my constituency, if they have got one


spare bedroom, they are hit by 700 a year extra to pay and that is


completely unfair As a consequence of people losing the subsidy for


their spare room, they have decided to go out and get work and not


depend on Housing Benefit at all? 11% of them. What's wrong with that?


Well, they are going to review the way 2 the bedroom tax is working.


What is wrong with that? But that's not working. That's the result of


Freedom of Information, 141 councils provided the figures, 25,000 who've


come off benefits, of the 233,0 0 affected, it's about 11%. These


people were clearly able to get a job was having the Housing Benefit


in the first place? But of course the people who're on the benefits


who're not in work are always looking for work and many of them


will find work which is a good thing, but for those who don't find


work, or who find work where it s low-paid and need help with their


rent, it's wrong to penalise them on the basis of the fact that their


family might have grown up and moved away and so you have either got to


move out of your home, away from your family and your neighbourhood,


or you've got to stay where you are and, despite the fact that you are


low-paid or unemployed, you have got to find an extra ?700 a year because


of your rent. So it's very unfair The Government that was


commissioning independent research on the impact of this work change


and welfare policy, particularly on the impact on the most vulnerable,


some of which you have been talking about there, shouldn't they have


waited until you have got the independent research, that


independent investigation before determining your policy? No. In


fact, the Government should have waited until they'd have done their


independent research before they bought into effect something and


imposed it on people in a way which is really unfair. They could have


known. Why didn't you wait? What they could have done is, they could


have asked councils, are people going to be able to Manifest into


smaller homes if we impose the bedroom tax and the answer from


councils and Housing Associations would have been no, they can't move


into smaller homes because which haven't got them there. They should


have done the evaluation before they introduced the policy. We are


absolutely clear and you can see the evidence, people are falling into


rent arrears. Many people, it's a terrifying thing to find that you


can't pay your rent, and some of the people go to payday loan companies


to get loans to pay their rent. It is very, very unfair. The


justification for it, which is people will move, is completely


bogus. There aren't places for them to go. On the wider issue of welfare


reform, a call for the TUC showed that voters support the Government's


welfare reforms, including a majority of Labour voters. Why are


you so out of touch on welfare issues, even with your own


supporters? Nobody wants to see people who could be in a job


actually living at the taxpayers' expense. That's why we have said


that we'll introduce a compulsory jobs guarantee, so that if you are a


young person who's been unemployed for a year, you will have to take a


job absolutely have to take a job, and if you have been unemployed as


somebody over 25, there'll be a compulsory thing after two years of


unemployment. So if you have been on welfare two years? So the main issue


about the welfare bill actually is people who're in retirement who need


support. We have said for the richest pensioners, they shouldn't


have to pay their winter fuel allowance. My point wasn't abouts


the sub stance, it's about how you don't reflect public opinion --


substance. The Parliamentary aid said the political backlog of


benefits and social security is "not yet one that we have won. Labour


must accept that they are not convincing on these matters,". Well,


redo have to convince people and explain the policies we have got and


the view we take. So, for example, for pensioners, who're well off we


are saying they don't need the Winter Fuel Payment that. 's me


saying to you and us saying to people in this country, we do think


that there should be that tightening. For young people, who've


been unemployed, they should be offered jobs but they've got to take


them. So yes, we have to make our case. OK. The energy freeze which we


showed there, on the speech, as popular. The living wage proseles


have been going down well as well. Why is Labour's lead oaf the


Conservatives being cut to 6% in the latest polls? Ed Miliband's own


personal approval rating's gotten worse. Why is that? I'm not going to


disdues ins and outs of weekly opinion polls with you or anybody


else because I'm not a political commentator, but let me say to you


the facts of what's happened since Ed Miliband's been leader of the


Labour Party. We have got 1,950 New Labour councillors, all of those...


But you're... All those who've won their seats against the


Conservatives or the Liberal Democrats and no, Andrew you don't


always get that in opposition. In 1997 after Tony Blair was elected,


the Tories carried on losing council seats. Exceptional circumstances and


these days Mr Blair was 25% ahead in the polls. You were six. The economy


grew at an annual rate of 3% in the third quarter just gone. Everybody,


private and public forecasters now saying that Britain in this coming


year will grow faster than France, Italy, Spain, even Germany will grow


faster. Your poll ratings are average when the economy was


flatlining, what happens to them when the economy starts to grow


Well, I've just said to you, I'm not a political commentator or a pundit


on opinion polls. We are putting policies forward and we are holding


the Government to account for what they are doing and we think that


what they did opt economy pulled the plugs from the economy, delayed the


recovery, made it stagnate and we have had three years lost growth. I


understand that, but it's now starting to grow. Indeed. If you are


no political commentator, let me ask you this, you anticipated the


growth, so you switched your line to no growth to this is growth and


living standards are rising. If the economy does grow up towards 3% next


year, I would suggest that living standards probably will start to


rise with that amount of growth What do you do then? We have not


switched our line because the economy started to grow. All the way


along, we said the economy will recover, but it's been delayed and


we have had stagnation for far too long because of the economic


policies. We have been absolutely right to understand the concerns


people have and recognise that they are struggling with the


cost-of-living. Sure. And we are right to do that. What kind of


living standards stuck to rise next year? -- start to rise next year. I


hope they will. For 40 months of David Cameron's Prime Ministership,


for 39 of those, wages have risen slower than prices, so people are


worse off. I understand that. You will know that the broader


measurement, real household disposable income doesn't show that


decline because it takes everything into account. Going around the


country, people feel it. They say where's the recovery for me. Living


standards now start to rise? If that happens, what is your next line


There is a set of arguments about living standards, the National


Health Service, about the problems that there is in A, which caused


-- are caused by the organisation. I can put forward other lines. All


right. Let me ask you one other question If no newspapers have


signed up to the Government-backed Labour-backed Royal Charter on press


regular lace by 2015 and it looks like the way things are going none


will have, if you are in power, will a Labour Government legislate to


make them? They don't have to sign up to the Royal Charter, that's not


the system. What the Royal Charter does is create a recogniser and


basically says it's for the newspapers to set up their own


regulator. They are doing that. My question is... Let me finish. If


they decide to have nothing to do with the Royal Charter that was


decided in Miliband's office in the wee small hours, will you pass


legislation to make them? The newspapers are currently setting up


what they call... I know that, Harriet Harman. Just let me finish.


OK. Because the newspapers are setting up the independent Press


Standards Organisation. Right. If it is independent, as they say it is,


then the recogniser will simply say, we recognise that this is


independent and the whole point is that, in the past when there's been


skaen deals a tend press have really turned people's lives upside down


and the press have said OK we'll sort things out, leave it to us


then they have sorted things out but a few years later they have slipped


back, all this recogniser will do is check it once every three years and


say yes, you have got an independent system and it's remained independent


and therefore that is the guarantee things won't slip back. Very


interesting. Thank you for that That's really interesting that if


they get their act right, you won't force the alternative on them. We


want the system as set forward by Leveson which is not statute and


direct regulation. I want to stick with the press because I want to


ask, is this a British institution or an out-of-date image for a by


gone age. The Sun's Page 3 has been dividing the nation since it first


appeared way back in 1970. That s 43 years ago. Harriet Harman's called


for it to be removed, so we sent Adam out to ask whether the topless


photographs should stay or go. We have asked people if page three


should stay or go. Page three. What do you think? Nothing wrong with it


at all. I think it is cheap and exploits women. It is a family


newspaper. Should it stay or go Go. I will look like the bad guy. It


should go. You have changed your mind. It is free choice. Girls do


not have to be photographed. Old men get the paper just for that. Know


when your age does that? Not really. Dashes-macro know what your age.


Page three girls, should they stay or go? I am not bothered. There are


other ways of getting noticed. Page three of the Sun newspaper every


day, there is a woman with no top on. We got rid of that about 40


years ago in Australia. I am not in favour of censorship. It has been


long enough. It can stay there. What is wrong with it? We want to


encourage children to read the newspapers. I do not want my


children to look at that. It is degrading. Do you think we will see


the day when they get rid of it? Yes, I do. I am wondering if I can


turn this into some kind of a shelter. It is tipping it down. I


think the council should do shelter. It is tipping it down. I


something about their car parks! Mother nature, the human body. It


should stay. Is some people like it, that is fine. I have nothing against


it. You know what has surprised me, lots of women saying it should stay.


Maybe they are seeing it as empowering. As I have a baby


daughter in there, I am happy to see it go. Imagine my grandad opening up


his paper and they're being my bats! It should go. There is nothing wrong


with it. He wants it to go. What about people who think that page


three should be banned? Idiots. Do you know a girl called Lacey, aged


22, from Bedford? Good luck to her. I do not know her as a person that I


have heard she is nice. What about her decision to be on page three?


Nothing to lose. Do you think she has made Bedford proud? That is not


hard. What have we learned? More people want page three to stay down


for it to go. Most people do not really seem to care, do they? You


have heard a range of views. I am not arguing it should be banned. I


have not argued for it to be banned but I have disapproved of it since


the 1970s. You do not think it should be banned? I do not think


there should be dictating content but I do think, if you arrive from


outer space in this country in 21st-century Britain, and asked


yourself what was the role of women in society... To stand in their


knickers and nothing else, I think women have more to aspire to than to


be able to take their clothes off in public. The sun no longer has the


circulation, or the political importance, that it had in the 1980s


when page three was at its height. Aren't people just voting with their


feet anyway? The market is sorting this out. Half the number of people


buy it now than they did 20 years ago. Until the time the sun does not


have page three any more, I am entitled to my view that it is


outdated and wrong. I am happy to establish that you do not want to


ban it. What should happen? Should people boycott the paper? I have


never implied or said it should be banned. I have always been


forthright. Should people boycott the paper? I have not called for a


boycott. The women's movement, of which I am part, and this is not


about politicians censoring the press. I am part of the movement


which says women can do better than taking off their clothes and being


in their knickers in the newspapers. Why don't you do something about it?


I am doing something about it by saying it is outdated. I am not


doing anything more about it. Should people buy the paper as long as


there is a page three? Would you like to say to viewers, as long as


page three is in the sand, you should not buy it? Dashes-macro be


Son. I am saying, wake up to what the role of women in society should


be, which is more than page three. If they changed it in Australia,


which is where Rupert Murdoch came from, why can they not change it in


this country? You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just


over 20 minutes... I'll be talking to man leading the


Hello, I'm Lucie Fisher. Coming up on the Sunday Politics in the South


West: As the council funding row continues, we ask if the Tories are


losing the countryside. And for the next 20 minutes, I'm


joined by the Labour MP Alison Seabeck and the Lib Dem MP Adrian


Sanders. Welcome both of you to the programme. Let's begin with the


concern that this week's defence announcement could result in job


losses at Devonport Dockyard. When it was announced last month that the


survey ship HMS Protector was being moved from Portsmouth to Plymouth,


the Portsmouth MP, Penny Mordaunt, argued it would make sense to move


Plymouth's destroyers and frigates to her city so that Portsmouth could


be the "home of the surface fleet". Well, this week Portsmouth suffered


another blow with BAE's decision to end shipbuilding there and some say


that's strengthened the city's case for getting its hands on Plymouth's


frigates. Alison, you're not going to allow that to happen you? Know.


It is unlikely at the moment. That is a good case for them based ``


being based on some Internet fans in Portsmouth. The aircraft carriers


have got 11,000 people working on them. You would have expected her to


do it. She is the Defence Secretary's assistant so she is


quite influential. You can't say that you'll get special favours


because you are close to the Defence Secretary. This decision has to be


taken strategically. Lots of people have been talking about this. So you


don't think the concern is justified at the moment? No and we will be


fighting for it as a city. Adrian, as this matter to you? `` is this


matter. It affects the whole of the south`west economy. Do you think you


can Avenue once? I do. If you look at it there are more MPs with an


interest in Devon and Cornwall than there are within interesting


Portsmouth. High petrol prices and relaxed


planning rules are just two of the things on the list of issues turning


rural voters away from the Tories, according to a recent poll by the


Countryside Alliance. Another bugbear is the council funding gap,


which was back on the agenda at Westminster this week. In a moment,


we'll be joined by the rural Conservative MP Neil Parish, but


first this report from Jenny Kumah. It seems the price of petrol in the


countryside is causing more grief than ever. This week the petrol


retailers Association revealed the increasing rate at which their


members are going out of business. Motorists are feeling the squeeze. I


think it is a great tragedy. The government say they support rural


things but over and again you see they don't. According to a recent


poll from the Countryside Alliance, petrol prices are one of many issues


annoying rural voters. Others being the so`called unfair funding deals


for country councils, the perceived building of wind farms because of


relaxed tanning guidance and the government's failure with the


hunting with dogs banned. All parties have accepted this as a


dreadful piece of legislation. We think that would be one thing which


would give a significant symbol to the countryside that concerns were


being addressed. According to the Countryside Alliance only 66% of its


members would vote Conservative if they were an election tomorrow. A


drop of almost 20% in just a couple of years. While 13% would vote UKIP.


Three quarters of their members feel politicians are more interested in


the views and values of city dwellers. This man joined at the end


conservatives in the 80s and voted for the party on the 2010 election


but he now supports UKIP. This term has just proved that anybody that


had a traditional conservative background was betrayed. David


Cameron will say something on Friday, he'll have an opinion poll


on Saturday and he will diluted on Monday. `` he will do a U`turn. I'm


irritated with the way things are. He moved to Devon two years ago and


says he's noticed rural councils don't seem to get a fair deal. It


makes you feel terribly angry and it makes me feel that all the pledges


this government makes to rural England, they are empty promises.


This week MPs representing constituencies in the countryside


presented a petition to the government. It calls the councils in


the countryside to get a fairer share of the funding cake. A few


days later, ministers said they were considering more helpful country


motorists with a possible extension of the rural fuel duty discount. But


on the big issue of council funding, the government has in offering


little sympathy. Jenny Kumah reporting and Neil


Parish joins us now from Westminster. Our UKIP becoming your


biggest threat? We need to listen to what the country voters are telling


us and we need to be firm in our policies. In coalition sometimes


it's difficult to deliver all the robust policies you need. As far as


of the hunting act is concerned they will be some amendments which were


delayed. We have to deal with the wind turbines and solar farms by


reducing the huge subsidies so they are not driven all across the


countryside. We do need to do a lot more. You are very keen on local


issues and your party came in on a wave of localism and yet it doesn't


actually seem at ground level that people are feeling that. Is that


frustrating? I have got parish councils with flooding is going on


and planning is going head for houses so the localism has not come


through a strongly as we like. But I believe the planning policy will be


more robust overtime we get to April. Do you feel your party and


not really listening to you and the Tory people on the ground? I shall


shout louder and I lead a debate on the fascia of the rural authority to


make Chile get `` make sure we get proper funding for our council tax


funders. We have to deliver better services. Those are the key issues


people feel strongly about. I am going to bring Adrian in because


UKIP may be a threat to the Tories but it's also a threat to you.


Traditionally people would leave Tory and go Lib Dem. Now they seem


to be choosing UKIP instead of the Lib Dems. I am not sure that is


true. The real issues that people and related talking about light


transport costs, job opportunities, housing costs, the Tories had a


whole day in Westminster on Friday to talk about Europe. They are


fixated on losing vote UKIP. Rather than addressing the issues that


affect people in religious. The people of this country what they say


on Europe. I am pleased to be delivering a referendum so people


can have a real say as to whether we should be in or out of Europe and


let's settle this matter once and for all. I don't take a lecture on


being a peer. It is as big an issue in the rural areas as it is in the


urban areas. We are also dealing with the fuel problems and we have


to make sure people don't have high fuel bills. It is no good pushing


more and more taxes for wind turbines and solar farms. We are


doing a lot. People are very concerned about Europe ruling us and


that is why this referendum is essential. But this Countryside


Alliance survey suggested 13% of people are leaving. Alison, what do


you make of the Tory policies? It would be an thinkable for Labour to


go against the heartlands in the north`east. This is about people


looking for scapegoats in difficult times. This coming year, councils


are going to have to find cuts equivalent to the cuts they've had


already making the last three as. That affects you whether you are


urban oral. There are issues of sparsity and itching just in the


local government Association is saying let's go back and revisit the


former. `` the formula. I listened to the gentleman in the film and


there are issues on all sides. What is your message to seven of these


people were so disaffected with the Tory party they have turned to UKIP?


I would say stick with us. We have stopped the 12p rise on duty for


petrol. We will deliver this referendum on Europe. We are going


to be making amendments to the hunting act. We have dealt with TB.


I did want to ask Adrian, you said UKIP is not a threat to the Lib Dems


but Nigel Farage is predicting UKIP with all the sake Lib Dems in terms


of members within two years. `` will overtake. Is that something you're


worried about? We have 57 MPs and they don't have any. The issues


about cost of living and housing, yes I would like a referendum on you


that. The Lib Dems have pledged to that. I think Labour has got a


similar policy. We would have the vote in the future. But the idea


that the Tory party get a majority Tory government would waste


Parliamentary time bringing back hunting I think says it all in terms


of their priorities. Thank you for joining us.


It was a case which shocked the region and one which has sparked


debate in Parliament this week. Three years ago, Harold Philpotts is


believed to have set fire to a house in Cornwall killing himself, his


wife and ten`year`old son. The case was mentioned by an MP raising his


concern that domestic violence victims can be put at greater risk


because of patient confidentiality. This report from Anna Varle begins


with an extract from his debate. Ten`year`old Ben Philpott will


always be remembered by his teachers with his hand eagerly in the air and


the beaming smile. He was a positive spirit and a popular member of his


school community. A boy who showed enthusiasm for everything he


undertook. He was a key member of his local foot will team and was a


natural sportsman. It is nearly four years since the death of Ben and his


mother following the fire at their home in Newquay. The prime suspect


died from burns a week later. He had psychosis and was suffering from


depression. The case was one of huge distress not only to the community


but also to the extended family and those of us in local government. We


felt it was a case that should never have happened. A serious case review


found no agency could have foreseen the tragic outcomes but it did


recommend better sharing of issues between teams like the police and


social services. They had been threats against the wife and threats


against the child. But those were not communicated. The health


professionals wish a conclusion that the family were not at risk. It is


not part of my debate to say they were wrong but what I'm saying is


that the wife should have been able to make their own assessment. She


was not able to because she didn't have all the information. In his


speech Jonathan Evans questioned whether it was right that patient


confidentiality should trump public safety as he claimed it had then in


the `` this medical case. He said more could be done to ensure


professionals don't miss warning signs and pointed at that in many


family annihilation cases there is a history of domestic abuse. My


purpose is to urge the government to build on the Home Secretary's review


of the effectiveness of dealing with domestic violence. Every ten days in


England and Wales one child is killed at the hands of a parent. In


Devon alone there were more than 4000 referrals of domestic abuse


cases to agencies such as the police and local authorities last year.


1500 children were in homes which were deemed medium or high risk. Of


course not all domestic violence cases end in death. The research by


Birmingham city University show the number of family annihilation cases


it arising. It is an indicator of a wider social problem. The family is


becoming a pressure cooker. It is one symptom of that. The government


does not accept that instances are increasing. It says much has been


done to help agencies work together to protect those most at risk. But


it did concede there is much more to do.


Anna Varle reporting and we're joined by Sue Wallis from North


Devon Against Domestic Abuse. How hard is it for social services to


spot which of these cases may turn into something worse? I would say it


is extremely difficult for anyone to tell whether or not something is


going to escalate from what we would recognise as a domestic `` domestic


abusive situation into a family annihilation. But it is around the


training issues of recognising what domestic abuse is in the first


place. In this case it does throw up some inadequate and sees ``


inadequacies. Harold Philpotts had told a doctor he wanted to kill his


wife and son she was not told that because of patient confidentiality.


Can something be done about that? What we actually need is a framework


and an understanding of when it is acceptable to break patient


confidentiality or any confidentiality. We are all under an


obligation to ignore confidentiality when it is about safeguarding the


child. GPs to have a huge difficulty and it is a training issue and they


need to know they can have the confidence to report something like


that to the correct place. And presumably no when to do it and not.


Could the guidance be clearer? Yes. If you look at the practice


happening in Plymouth, the sharing of information between police and


schools for example, so if there has been an incident at home with the


police in Plymouth will now advise the school so the school is away.


Previously that did not happen. There needs to be information


sharing. It is about having the confidence to do that in those


circumstances. I have had people in my constituency surgeries on the


phone who have expressed real worries about child safety. They


have not felt able to take any action but I have been able to do


so. You cannot sit back and not do anything. You come back to support,


funding and mental health issues as well and support for that. Adrian,


are we learning enough lessons from these cases? Theresa May has ordered


a coherent review of different bodies. Are you hopeful that will


throw up some answers? The government is doing quite a few


things. The government is learning all the time. There is no automatic


reporting of death so there's a proper review. That did not use a


happen. There are some pilots like play's law. `` clear's law. Better


training for the police. All these things cost money. There are funding


cuts in the pipeline. How will they affect bodies like yourselves? The


difficulty is that millions of pounds are being spent on serious


case reviews and less money is being spent on ground level with that


service can be delivered to people so they can understand what domestic


abuses. And how to protect themselves from it. That is the most


important thing. I would keep the refuge is open. They are being


closed, including the one in Torbay. People mentioned Torbay to you


didn't they? The real difficulty is that social workers and police are


all very hard`pressed now. They have taken cut after cut their services.


We've had social workers where we've expressed concern about the family


and they have said, I don't have time to listen to you. That is the


voice of an overworked social workers and of somebody who is not


being supported in their role. You've also got the bedroom tax and


people are being caught by the bedroom tax because they have a safe


room to go to in their house. I am looking at a way to highlight that


elsewhere because that has to stop. People have to be allowed to have


safe rooms. If the review did not pick this up what we do? We have to


trust the professionals in the front line to make decisions. That is one


thing we really have to do. Thank you all for joining us.


Now, our regular round`up of the political week in 60 seconds.


On a visit to farm of Lord Heseltine said Cornwall was more prosperous in


real terms than a generation ago. Look at the cars. They are a totally


different states are the ones 30 years ago. The future of all


Devon's council run care homes was put under a cost`cutting review.


There will be real concerns amongst residents and their families and


loved ones. Somerset's article fell five point short of its 70% target


even after the three`week extension. They are playing the figures uncover


the fact it has been a complete failure and they have killed badgers


for no reason at all. A proposal to transfer the Duchy of Cornwall from


Prince Charles to the people was discussed in Parliament. And


inspired by this ceremony in Exeter, the people of Plymouth were asked to


nominate lost war heroes for street names. If you could name a street


after anyone who would it be? I would go for Robin Stubbs who scored


a hat`trick in the third round of the FA Cup in 1966 the Torquay


United against Tottenham Hotspur. Allison, have you got a personal


hero? If we are looking at war heroes it would be the first


Plymouth Sylvia lost in the First World War. Who was that? I don't


know. They were far too many victims but that would be the person I would


name a street after. What about transferring the powers of the Duchy


of Cornwall from the Prince of Wales to the people, is that something you


would like to see happen? That is a big question for two seconds. We


need to have a detailed discussion. Yes and no? I think it is


inevitable. That's the Sunday Politics in the


South West. You can always watch this show again online. Thanks to my


guests, Alison Seabeck and Adrian Sanders. Now, back to Andrew in


London. Enjoy the rest of more equipment so they can see


cyclists. Back to you, Andrew. We learned this week that no more


warships will be built at Portsmouth, the home of the Royal


Navy since the days of the Mary Rose and Francis Drake. But has the city


been sacrificed to save jobs on the Clyde in Scotland? Is England the


loser in an effort to keep the United Kingdom intact? Let's speak


to Eddie Bone, he leads the campaign for an English Parliament. Is


England the loser in this attempt to keep the


doubt, Andrew. We would look at it from the campaign for the English


Parliament that the British governance is bribing the Scots to


stay with the union at the cost of English jobs. What is the best


outcome for England when Scotland votes in the referendum next year?


We have got to have an English parliament. What I mean by that is


an endless governor and with a first minister speaking on behalf of the


people of England. -- and English government. If Scotland votes for


independence, that is the union coming to an end. It will be


dissolved legally. England would be going to negotiating table without


true representation. The union continues but it continues without


Scotland. I want to come back to my... That is the constitutional


position. You may not agree with me but that is the constitutional


position. Do you want Scotland to vote for independence next year We


want a fair deal with equality for England. If that can be maintained


or England can have a fair deal within the union, that is brilliant.


Let's have a federal system are all the nations are treated equally If


that cannot happen and Scotland decides to stay, if Scotland goes,


it is an independent England, isn't it? If Scotland votes to leave the


union, what is left of the United Kingdom would be so dominated by


England at Westminster would, in effect, Beale English Parliament,


wouldn't it? I do not agree with you. I think that is a British, deny


list approach. The act of union was a fusion with the King of England to


the King of Scotland. That would come to an end. The Welsh are very


concerned. They are a very small nation. If you have a botched


British come English Parliament the Welsh would be in a very vulnerable


situation. They would not be listened to. Also a situation with


Northern Ireland. There are voices in Northern Ireland talking about


trying to reunite Northern Ireland. It would be a very volatile


situation. Would you prefer England to become an independent nation


separate from what was left of the UK, which would be Wales and


Northern Ireland? Would you like to see England have a seat in the UN? I


want their representation for the people of England. English jobs were


sacrificed because the British government wanted Scotland to


remain... You have answered that very quickly. I am -- very clearly.


Would you want England, without Northern Ireland and Wales to become


a separate nation state? If that is what it takes for people of England


to have their representation - representation that looks at


policies of the NHS, education very different from Wales and Northern


Ireland - then so be it. Independence will need to be the way


forward. We have a small window of opportunity that the federal system


might still work. D1 indenting have a system like Scotland? -- do you


want England to have a system like Scotland? What we need to do now is


implement the process is to get their representation for England. I


would urge your viewers to join our campaign because it is the only way


to protect jobs in England, protect the NHS, protect education.


Otherwise we will see the people in England continually penalised by the


British government is trying desperately to save the union by


giving more to Scotland and Wales. Nice to talk to you. Helen, on this


business of the Clyde versus Portsmouth, it would have been


pretty inconceivable of the British government that believes in the


union to have allowed the Clyde to close. That would have been a


disaster. It would have been. It's dumped Nicola Sturgeon. Hang on a


minute, if there was Scottish independence, England were not allow


its warships to be built in a foreign country. She was unable to


admit there were any downsides to Scottish independence. It would be


dangerous for Scotland to talk about this. You have a Lib Dem and a


Conservative MP with reasonable majorities. They will find that a


killer on their doorstep in the next election. There are no results in


this for Mr Cameron. He has one MP and he will be lucky to have two.


And the South of England, I know Portsmouth is quite an industrial


area, but the South of England is overall Tory territory. He has


backed the Clyde where there are no Tory votes. The Tory problem in


Scotland is crucial. The trend to look out for is the rise of English


nationalism within the Conservative Party. They have the word Unionist


in their official title. If, in election after election, they failed


to win a significant presence in Scotland, and they are failing to


win a majority in Westminster because of that, it is not hard to


imagine that in ten years time that would be a party which has more


autonomy. One person we know who does not sign up to that. David


Cameron is a romantic Unionist at heart he may say that are not any


vote in Scotland but he want to keep the union together. With the Clyde,


you saw a rival together of economic and political interests. It is


economic or the case the greatest shipbuilding capability in the


United Kingdom is in the Clyde. It is politically very helpful for this


government to say to people in Scotland, look at the benefits of


being in the United Kingdom and under their breath, or in the case


of Alistair Carmichael to a camera, look what might go if you leave


That came together very conveniently to the government. Now, how do you


like your politicians? Squeaky clean with an impeccable past? Or are you


happy for them to have a few skeletons in the closet? Well, last


week the Toronto Mayor Rob Ford admitted smoking crack cocaine. He


said he took the drug about a year ago whilst in a drunken stupor. So,


what impact do confessions have on a political career? In a moment, we'll


hear what our panel has to say, but first, take a look at this. Yes I


have smoked crack cocaine. Am I an addict? No. Have I tried it?


Probably one of my drunken stupor is, about a year ago. I have used


drugs in the past. I have used class a drugs in the past. About 30 years


ago at university, I did smoke cannabis. I took cannabis is a few


times at university and it was wrong. Have you snorted cocaine I


tried to but unsuccessfully years ago. I sneezed. The people around


you who took cocaine, they went .. Is it better to confess or the that


get you into even more hot water? It is absolutely better. The confession


by Jacqui Smith was without glamour. Finding a Labour politician who once


smoked cannabis 25 years ago... I do not think it makes you think that


she cannot be a serious politician. Politicians should brace thing about


them which everyone knows. In the case of Ed Miliband, he should not


deny being geeky. That would reek of in authenticity. The Tory MP meant


to be regarded as a rising star turns out he was claiming to heat


his horses stables at the expense of the tax payer. He had made a


generous claim for energy bills in his constituency home. He went


through the papers and found he had been using it to heat the stables


and he laid it all out and did the right thing. He was completely


honest. Is that the end of it? It will still haunt in because energy


is such a big issue. He was right to be honest about it. Helen was


saying, absolutely, you need to be honest about your past. Harriet


Harman said she smoked pot at university. If you have smoked pot,


you can have a front line career. If you have taken class a drugs, you


cannot have a front line career There is the politician confessing


and the remarkable willingness of the public to forgive. It is


enlightened and progressive to forgive a politician for an affair


or taking soft drugs at university. To smoke crack cocaine and demand be


mad of following the Mayor of Toronto does astonishes me. There


was an example in America a few years ago. It was crack cocaine He


was elected having confessed to smoking crack cocaine. I draw the


line around class a drugs. We will put the team on to investigate him.


Help to Bible come back into the headlines again. Mr Cameron will


surroundings by the people who are benefiting from buying their homes


on this scheme in the same way that this is that you used to visit those


who had bought their council houses. It will become hugely politicised.


The Bank of England thinks that unemployment will drop late 201 ,


early 2015. They will put interest rates up. Those with 95% mortgages


will have two find an extra ?40 a month to pay them off. I would not


be surprised if David Cameron is setting up himself with this


trouble. They will not want to raise interest rates. Mark Carney was very


careful to give himself three get out clauses. If unemployment hits a


certain level, Key has three measures which have to be fulfilled


before he goes ahead and raises interest rates. As a Tory


strategist, would you rather go into the election with low and implement


or low interest rates? I think they would stick to low interest rates.


-- low unemployment. It is not just panellists who are raising questions


about it, it is senior figures people in senior economic positions.


They are saying the scheme is fine at the moment. David Cameron will be


surrounded by people who have taken mortgages out at low levels and it


is all fine right now but if interest rates go up, it will not be


cosy. That's all folks. The Daily Politics is back tomorrow on BBC Two


at midday. I'll be back next Sunday at the normal time of 11am.


Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.


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