11/05/2014 Sunday Politics South West

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics, where we're talking

about the Europe-wide contest that really matters. No, not Eurovision.

The European elections. There are local elections across England too

on May 22nd. The party leaders are campaigning ahead of polling day.

The results could be a pointer to the Big One, May 2015. We'll be

speaking to the man in charge of Labour's election battle plan. Has

the opposition really got its sights set on all-out victory in 2015? Or

will it just be content with squeaking home? And you can't

mention elections these days without talking about the impact of this

In the South West: the UKIP MEP him if UKIP really

In the South West: the UKIP MEP facing questions about land he gave

to a family company before ht facing questions about land he gave

to a family company before it was to a family company before it was

offered to a wind farm developer. And I'm joined by three journalists

guaranteed to bring a touch of Eurovision glamour to your Sunday

morning. With views more controversial than a bearded

Austrian drag act and twice the dress sense, it's Nick Watt, Helen

Lewis and Janan Ganesh. So you might have thought you've already heard

David Cameron promise an in-out referendum on EU membership in 2017

if he's still Prime Minister. Many times. Many, many times. Well he

obviously doesn't think you've been listening, because he's been saying

it again today. Here he is speaking to the BBC earlier. We will hold a

referendum by the end of 2017. It will be a referendum on an in-out

basis. Do we stay in a reformed European Union or do we leave? And

I've said very clearly that whatever the outcome of the next election,

and of course I want an overall majority and I'm hoping and

believing I can win an overall majority, that people should be in

no doubt I will not become Prime Minister unless I can guarantee that

we will hold a referendum. Here s we will hold a referendum. Here's

saying there that an overall majority there will definitely be a

referendum. If these are the minority position, he won't form a

new coalition unless they agree to a referendum, too. The Lib Dems a

pulmonary agree to that. They probably will because the Prime

ministers have a strong argument which is I gave you a referendum

back in 2010 so the least I need is theirs and the Lib Dems are the only

party who have stood in recent elections on a clear mandate to hold

a referendum, so it is difficult for them to say no, there was

interesting the interview he did earlier today. He named everything

was going to ask for. The most controversial with him, as he said

in his speech last year, he wants to take Britain out of the commitment

to make the European Union and ever closer union. That is a very big

ask, but the point is, he may well get it because the choice for the

European Union now, France and Germany, is a clear wonderful do

Britain in or out? Previously, it was can you put up with a British

prime ministers being annoying? I think you'll find the answer is they

are willing to pay a price but not any price to keep Britain in. In

this scenario, Labour would have lost the election again because we

are talking the slowly happen if Mr Cameron is the largest party or has

an overall majority. Could you then see Labour deciding we had better go

along with a referendum, too? I think that's unlikely because as I

think that's unlikely because there's a huge upside for that for I

think what's interesting is the idea he would for minority government.

Would you get confidence and look at other options that might well happen

with the way the arithmetic is going or is he going to hold out and say

the only way I will be Prime Minister is in a majority

Conservative government? No, the implication of his remarks was I

wouldn't form a coalition government unless my coalition partners would

also agree to vote for a referendum. He's basically talking about is

negotiating strategy in those coalition talks. It's a red line and

a huge opportunity for the Lib Dems, because they know David Cameron

absolutely has to do, for accidental reasons, as a person who survives as

Tory leader, to ask for that referendum, so they can ask anything

they want in return and if I was Nick Clegg, I would work out in the

next year one absolute colossal negotiating demand for those

coalition talks. For a party around 10% in the polls, they will do have

the Prime Minister over a barrel on this one, assuming that coalition

talks goes well. They could make Michael Gove Tbyte meeting. OK, we

need to move on. So, the politicians are out and about on what used to be

called the stump ahead of local and European elections in less than two

weeks' time. But, without wanting to depress you on a damp Sunday

morning, the party strategists are already hard at work on their

campaign plans for the General Election next May. Yes, it's less

than a year to go. They may have taken their time, but Labour's

battleplan for 2015 is starting to take shape. As well as take

promising to freeze your energy bills, and reintroduce the 50p rate

of tax, Ed Miliband now says he wants to intervene in the housing

market to keep rents down. There's even talk that the party leadership

wants to bring more railway lines into public ownership. And Labour is

gambling that its big push on the cost of living will see it through

to the general election despite evidence that growth is firmly back.

Labour's campaign chief Douglas Alexander hopes it all adds up to

victory next May. But so far, the evidence is hitting home very thin.

One survey today shows that 56% of people don't think Mr Miliband is up

to the job of Prime Minister. As we head towards one of the least

predictable general elections in 70 years, has Labour got a message to

win seats up and down the country? And Labour's election co-ordinator

and Shadow Foreign Secretary, Douglas Alexander, joins me now.

Douglas Alexander, joins me now Welcome to Sunday Politics. A lot of

these policies announced polar pretty well. By popular with the

country. When you add them together, it's a move to the left and what

would be wrong with that? I think is your packet suggests, the contours

in the coming campaign are becoming clear. Our judgement is the defining

issue of the year in British politics will be the widening gap

between the wealth of the country and the finances of ordinary

families. We believe it will be a cost of living election and we have

been setting out our thinking in relation to energy prices and rent,

but you will hear more from Labour Party in the coming months because

we're now less than one year away from a decisive moment. If the

leftish think tank suggested any of his policies in that Tony Blair

years, you would have opposed them. Let's be clear, when not going for

an interest but seeking to secure a majority for the only way to do that

is not simply to appeal to your base, but to the centre ground. I

believe we got genuine opportunities in the next year. You have the

Conservatives in a struggle with UKIP on the right of politics. The

Lib Dems 9% of trying to find their base, and there's a genuine

opportunity in the next year for Labour to dominate the centre ground

of politics and secure the majority Labour government we are planning

for in the coming year. I notice you didn't deny you wouldn't have

opposed. You say you have got an message for aspirational voters in

the South. This is what John Denham said. He thinks you're talking too

much to your core vote. He is right to recognise we took a

terrible beating in 2010. 29%. If you look at what we've done in the

last week, for example, the signature policy on rent Ed Miliband

announced to launch the campaign, there's now more than 9 million

people in the country in the private rented sector, more than 1 million

families. Many of them are in the south-east. They are seeing

circumstances where, suddenly, landlord will increase the rent and

they put the pressure involved in schooling, health care facing the

families, so it is important both in terms of policy and in terms of

politics that we speak to the whole country, not simply to one part of

it falls up what is the average rise in event last year? I don't know.

Can you tell me? 1%. 1% not in real terms. I'm not sure what the problem

is. It will happen to wages in last year, we are facing circumstances

where people will be worse off, up to ?1600 off worse and frankly, if

our opponents want to argue that the economy has healed and they deserve

a victory lap, good luck to them because actually, what we are

hearing from the Buddhist public, not just in the north and south,

hearing from the Buddhist public, not just in the north and south is

not just in the north and south, is not the cost living crisis is

continuing and it affects families. There was nothing aspirational about

your party election broadcast for the European elections. It looked

like crude class war to money people. That's a bit of it. Bedroom

tax. Isn't it going to look bad that two thirds of those affected are

disabled? Who cares? They can't fight back. Shall be lay-offs and

NHS nurses? The National Health Service? Oh yes. Mr Cameron? Who

said that? Me. My gosh. The man has shrunk. He's actually shrunk. What

shall we do with him? Can we hunt him? Nothing about Europe, Labour

policy. News that the Tories would result in negative campaigning and

smear. You didn't tell you would be just as bad. Let's start the party

broadcast. The one thing guaranteed to have most people reaching for the

remote control these days are the words, there now follows a party but

the broadcast. I make no apology in the factory to be innovative in how

we presented. It's factual. It was a policy -based critic of this

government. And the Lib Dems role within it. So you're claiming it's

factual to betray the camera and cabinet is not even knowing what the

NHS is, -- the Cameron Cabinet. They attack the disabled because they

can't fight back. The Pinellas Tanner severely Prime Minister Sun

and he was treated during a short life by the NHS. It's a fact many

disabled people across the country including in my constituency have

been directly affected by the bedroom tax. And ultimately, this

Conservative led government, including the Lib Dems, will be held

accountable by the politicians. You say that, the Prime Minister, who

had a severely disabled son of. I you not ashamed about? I shadowed

Iain Duncan Smith of five months also they don't have the excuses of

seeing that saying nobody told them the consequences of the bedroom tax.

They went into this with their eyes open. They knew about the hardship

and difficulty. If they were one-bedroom properties available

across the country for people to move into, their argument would be

OK but they knew they were dealing with the most vulnerable people.

OK but they knew they were dealing with the most vulnerable people Did

you sign off that part of the broadcast? Of course I stand by the

fact of it. I wish David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith would apologise to

the disabled people of the country and the poorest people for the

effects of the bedroom tax. I hope we get that apology between now and

election. As someone who thinks integrity is important in politics,

not ashamed of this kind of thing? It's important we scrutinise the

policies of this government as well as adding a positive agenda for

change. You want that you won't promise this is the last time we'll

see such a negative press campaign? I don't think it is negative or

personal to scrutinise the government. So we'll get more of

this? I'm less interested in the background of the cabinet than their

views. You call the upper-class twits. It's for the British public

to make a judgement in terms of the British... That's how you depicted

them. We are held in accountable for the bedroom tax, the NHS, taxation,

and our record they have to defend. One reason are so fearful in this

election is actually because they know they have a poor record. Let's

look at other part of the election campaign. This poster. Particularly

digitally doing the rounds. On that shopping basket, can you tell us

which items take the full 20% VAT? It's representative of household

shopping, which includes items like cleaning products, and we know that

food is not that trouble. People don't go to the supermarket and say

this is -- vatable. So you are denying that ?450 extra is being

paid? Yes, where'd you get that figure? For an average family to pay

?450 a year extra VAT, they would have to spend ?21,600 a year on

vatable products at 20%. The average take-home pay is only 21,009. They

have got to spend on all sorts of things which are zero VAT. So in

addition to the items, has a range of products people face in terms of

VAT. How could an average family of ?21,000 a year spent 21,006 and the

pound a year on 20% vatable items? It's not an annual figure, is it? So

what is it then? If it's an annual, what is it? The increased VAT in

this parliament is calculated over the course of a Parliament. For the

whole of the Parliament? And you're illustrated this with a shopping

basket which almost has no VAT on it at all? People will be buying a

weekly shop in the course of this Parliament every week. Did you sign

off on this as well? Of course. It didn't dawn on you you're putting

things on it which have no VAT? If you want to argue some people go to

the shops and say these are vatable or not, I disagree. Even your rent

cap announcement went wrong. You're working on the rent rises and it

turns out it wasn't. It was a post your policy. It is the exception

rather than the rule to have the position we have at the moment. In

Northern Ireland we have seen the continued rise in terms of the

rented sector but there is a widespread recognition that for

those people in the rented sector, change is necessary. Are you

coordinating this campaign? It seems accident prone. This is a party that

has set the agenda more effectively than a Conservative party that said

when David Cameron was elected he wasn't going to bang on about

Europe. The day after the election we expect the Conservative party to

be engulfed in crisis. I'm proud of what we talk about and I think there

is a clear contrast about a party talking about issues people care

about, and a Conservative party talking about exclusively a

referendum. Are you in charge of the campaign? I am coordinating the

campaign is, yes. The expensive election guru you have hired, has he

been involved in any of this? We have started our discussions with

him. You are going to have to brief him about British politics because

he doesn't know anything about it. I make no apology for hiring him. He

has a lot of experience in winning tight elections and that is what we

are expecting. If tight elections and that is what we

us to say, they have passed and we have to hold them accountable, then

I am sorry but we have a campaign that holds the Government and the

Conservatives to account for what I think is a very hopeless record in

government. Thank you. He leads a party with zero MPs but

his media presence is huge. He's had an expenses scandal, but the public

didn't seem to mind. He's got a privileged background but he's seen

as an anti-establishment champion. Nothing seems to stick to him, not

even eggs. I speak of course of Nigel Farage. We'll talk to him in a

moment, but first Giles has been out on the campaign trail ahead of

elections that could make or break the UKIP leader.

Nigel Farage likes a stage, and at this stage of the Euro and local

election campaign he is, like his party, in buoyant mood. They feel

they are on the verge of what they see as causing an earthquake in

British politics. Today Nigel is filling thousands seat venues and

bigger. Not that there's much sign of that at this press launch. But

it's a threat with serious money behind it, that they believe the

media and the political elite just haven't realised yet, much less

learned how to counter it. Not that it's all been plain sailing.

Offensive comments from some candidates has not only seen UKIP

labelled as racist, but necessitated a rally by the party to visibly and

verbally challenge that. The offensive idiotic statements made by

this handful of people have been lifted up and presented to the great

British public as if they represent the view of this party, which they

do not. They never have and they never will. APPLAUSE

I don't care what you call us, but from this moment on, please do not

call must trust a racist party. We are not a racist party.

The need to say that is not just about the European and local

elections even at that campaign launch it's clear UKIP's leader has

set his sights firmly on the ultimate prize. I come from the

south of England and I would not want to be seen as an opportunist

heading to the north, north Norfolk or whatever it will be. I will make

my mind up and stand in the general election for somewhere in Kent, East

Sussex, Hampshire, somewhere in my home patch. Back at UKIP HQ they are

still drilling down how the last fortnight of campaigning should go.

They aren't taking any chances, and one imagines having offices above

those of Max Clifford is a reminder how fragile built reputations can be

of the bubble bursting. They want their reputation to be built on

votes and they know anything but significant success on May 22nd and

some seats in Westminster in 2015 isn't going to be good enough. And

after that, having sold yourselves as the honest outsiders, that stance

is harder to maintain once your people are on the inside. And subtle

changes from the past are already noticeable. The ordinary man of the

people stance is still working. Characteristically outside a pub,

Nigel Farage is glad handed by a customer. Two weeks to go, let's

cause an upset. Wouldn't that be great? The only sign that such an

interaction is different now is the ever presence of bodyguards who

shadow his every move. Over lunch ahead of Question Time, a radio

appearance, and then off to Scotland, I ask him if some of those

minded to vote UKIP who see him as a man they'd be comfortable having a

drink with are the sort of people he'd be entirely comfortable sitting

down with. Every political party attracts support from across the

spectrum and there will be some magnificent people who vote for us

and some ne'er-do-wells. The one common thing about UKIP voters is

that they are often not very political. And it's that people s

army that if UKIP can get to a polling booth might just create that

earthquake they want. Nigel Farage joins me now. When you

decided not to stand at the new work by election coming said if you lost

it that the bubble would have burst. What did you mean by that? I

was asked at seven 20p -- at 7:21pm if I would stand, I have decided by

the next morning that I would not. I didn't know he was going to resign.

You claim only a handful of UKIP candidates have ever said things

that are either stupid or offensive, I'm right on that, yes? 0.1%, I'd

rather it was non-. But why have you chosen a candidate to fight this

by-election that has said many things most people would regard as

stupid or offensive? Roger is fighting this for us, someone of 70

years of age who grew up with a strong Christian Bible background,

in an age when homosexuality was imprisonable. He had a certain set

of views which he maintained for many years which he now says he

accepts the world has moved on and he is relaxed about it. The comments

about homosexuality are not from the dark ages, they are from two or

three years ago. From when he was a Conservative, yes, so will you be

asking David Cameron that question? I have never seen a single comment

from Roger that would be deemed to be offensive. Do you regard his

comments on homosexuality as offensive? When he grew up,

homosexuality was illegal in this country. But this was in 2012 but he

said that. Most people have his age still feel uncomfortable about it --

of his age. In 2012 he said, if two men can be married, why not three,

why not a commune. Many people in this country are disconcerted by the

change in the meaning of marriage and in a tolerant society we

understand that some people have different views. But he has changed

his views now in only two years? different views. But he has changed

his views now in only two years He his views now in only two years? He

says he is more relaxed about it. Was he your candidate? He is a

first-class campaigner who has had 30 years in industry, he served in

the European Parliament, he is a good candidate. This morning's

papers suggest you are about to select Victoria Ayling for Grimsby,

but she is on camera saying that, of immigrants, I just want to send a

lot back. This is all very interesting, and we can talk about

it, all we could talk about the fact that in 12 days we have a European

election and every voter across the UK can vote on it and it is really

interesting. Are you happy to pick a candidate that says of immigrants, I

just want to send a lot back? I have seen the tape, it is a complete

misquote and she says it in the context of illegal immigrants. I

have seen the full quote and in the context it is not about illegal

immigrants. Let's come onto the European campaign, you have used a

company that employs Eastern European is to deliver leaflets in

London and the Home Counties. Have we? I'm told that in Croydon one

branch might have done that. Have you found some indigenous Brits to

deliver leaflets in Europe? We have thousands joining the party every

month and they are not all indigenous because what is

interesting is that in today's opinion polls, UKIP is above the Lib

Dems and the Conservatives amongst the indigenous voting.

We have not agreed a manifesto for the general election, we will do

over the course of the summer. This is in your local election. We are

having local elections in some part of the country but we are fighting a

European election. It is impossible with the British media to have an

intelligent debate on the European question. But as I say, we are also

fighting the local elections too. You have promised these tax cuts,

how much will they cost? I have met -- read the local election manifesto

and it doesn't make those promises. We do talk about local services, we

We do talk about local services we do talk about the need to keep

council tax down but we don't talk about income tax. Absolutely not. In

local election campaigning you say you would restore cuts to policing,

double prison places, restore cuts to front line NHS, spend more on

roads, how much would that cost You roads, how much would that cost? You

are obviously reading different documents to me. We are voting for

local councillors in district councils who have got little local

budgets. Every party in a manifesto puts his aspirations in it. Have you

read it? Of course I have, cover to cover, which is why I'm saying you

are misquoting it. By the way, on the bubble bursting, you told that

to Norman Smith of the BBC. 75% of British laws are now made in the

European Union. Now AstraZeneca is potentially going to be taken over

by Pfizer. The BBC is refusing to show the public that that decision

cannot be taken here but by an elected European commissioner, and

we sit and argue about what is in or not in the local election manifesto.

It is my job, but let me come on to AstraZeneca. Is it your view that a

British government should stop the takeover of AstraZeneca? It cannot.

Can we please get this clear. I sat next to Chuka Umunna the other day

at question time and he said what could and couldn't be done. He said

I am being studiously neutral, and the reason is we don't have this

power. That is what the European elections is about. Should France

have the takeover of the food company Danan? We seem to do things

to the Nth degree and nobody else does, perhaps because we have this

culture and we obey it. In your view, you don't think Pfizer should

be able to take over AstraZeneca? There is some good science within

AstraZeneca which is in danger of being asset stripped and lost.

Because it is run by a Swede and a Frenchman and most of its employees

are overseas. I understand that but there are still some good science

being produced here. What did you think of the Prime Minister saying

he would not form a government after the election unless he was able to

have a referendum in 2017? I sat here talking to you and you said to

me that David Cameron had given a cast-iron guarantee that if David

Cameron becomes Prime Minister he will have a referendum on the Lisbon

Treaty, but he didn't deliver on that. He knows that people struggle

to believe the renegotiation is worth a row of beans. He is saying

he will not form a government unless he can go forward with the

referendum. I know he is desperately trying to pretend to be Eurosceptic

whilst at the same time saying he will campaign for Britain to remain

in. In a sense, that is what this election is about. We have three

traditional parties, all of whom passionately believe in the

continued membership of the European Union and we have UKIP saying we

want trade and cooperation but there is a bigger and better world out

there. You are now travelling with I think four bodyguards, has this

affected you and your family life? I can't stand it. I've always wondered

about the place and on my own thing. Sadly we have a couple of

organisations out there headed up by senior Labour Party figures who

purport to be against fascism and extremism, who received funding from

the Department of communities, from the trade unions, who have acted in

a violent wait more than once. You are saying the Labour Party is

behind the threats? No, I said a taxpayer funded, trade union funded

and headed by senior Labour Party figures, and I'm happy for them to

come to my meetings and have an itinerant with me, but it's not so

much fun when there are banging you over the head. I is still keen to be

an MP? Yes, what UKIP will then do is target before the general

election next year for the one life be easier if you just went to the

Lords? That's the last thing I want to do. There's an awful lot to do.

Most of all, I will not rest until we are free from political union and

government from Brussels. Nigel Farage, thank you for being with us.

It's just gone 11.30am. You're watching the Sunday Politics. We say

goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now for Sunday Politics

Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes, our panel talks about the

Hello, I'm Lucy Fisher. Coming up in big stories of the week. First

Hello, I'm Lucy Fisher. Coming up in the Sunday politics in the South

West: the UKIP MEP facing questions West: the UKIP MEP facing questions

about why he gave land to a family company shortly before it was

procured by a wind farm developer. And for the next 20 minutes I'm

joined by the Conservative MP for Tiverton and Honiton, Neil Parish,

and the Labour MP for Plymotth Moor View, Alison Seabech. Welcome

and the Labour MP for Plymouth Moor View, Alison Seabech. Welcole both

of you to the programme. Let's start with house pricds. Their

Let's start with house prices. Their back on the rise in the reghon and

there are growing concerns among there are growing concerns among

economists that they are dangerously out of kilter with earnings. This

week the International Economic Forum, the OECD, said that Britain's

housing market was in danger of overheating. Neil, why is the

government not doing more to stop this potential bubble developing? I

think what we were keen to do was actually to get the housing market

going. Don't forget it wasn't very long ago that we were being

criticised for the housing market stagnating. That is why the Help to

Buy scheme was put there, to give people a chance to have a deposit

who couldn't raise that themselves. So we put position for the Bank of

England so that they can actually take action the moment they think

that there is anything that government money putting in is

stimulating too much the housing market. But at the moment in many

respects getting the housing market going is the important thing. So I

do not think it has overheated yet. And you wouldn't recommend stopping

perhaps the Help to Buy scheme? And you wouldn't recommend stopping

perhaps the Help to Buy scheme? No, you're helping people who c`nnot get

the deposit together. If you you're helping people who cannot get

the deposit together. If yot take that away you don't necessarily stop

prices rising, you just stop those people being able to get their help.

people being able to get thdir help. Alison, is Neil right? You need to

start the ladder, you need to start things moving?

Alison, is Neil right? You need to start The issue here is the supply

of housing available. If you start The issue here is the supply

of housing available. If yot look start The issue here is the supply

of housing available. If you look at of housing available. If yot look at

the comments from former chancellors, three Conservative,

the comments from former chancellors, three Conservative one

chancellors, three Conservative, one Labour, all seeing that we've had

bubble after bubble and thex've Labour, all seeing that we've had

bubble after bubble and they've all burst. The problem is one of supply.

To be fair, Alistair Darling has put his hands up on that one and said we

should have focused more on getting more homes built and that is what

has to happen. We've got the lowest house`building level since the

1920s, and that is fuelling this constant upward movement in prices.

OK, that's that for the mintte. We OK, that's that for the mintte. We

have to move on. But plenty more to discuss.

It's no surprise to find a UKIP discuss.

It's no surprise to find a TKIP MEP It's no surprise to find a TKIP MEP

that against wind farms. Indeed the party says its strong opposition

that against wind farms. Indeed the party says its strong opposhtion to

them has been a big vote`winner in the region. But some have bden

shocked to learn that UKIP's William Dartmouth, who's standing for

re`election as a South West MEP used to own a piece of land where

three turbines are now proposed. Slaithwaite Moor lies about six

miles to the west of Huddersfield and Yorkshire. The plan for 399

metre tall wind turbines here has attracted vocal opposition, but it

is also causing concern in the south`west. Lord Dartmouth has

publicly always opposed the development of wind power. Hf

publicly always opposed the development of wind power. If he is

development of wind power. Hf he is involved in putting up wind turbines

than I think his constituents should know about it. William Dartlouth is

one of the region's two existing UKIP MEPs. In February 2011 he gave

Yorkshire to a family company. 1 Yorkshire to a family company. 1

weeks later the wind farm developer Valley Wind secured an agredment

weeks later the wind farm ddveloper Valley Wind secured an agreement to

lease the land. This title plan from the Land Registry shows the land

which William Dartmouth transferred. This is the boundary to the area of

land. This planning application document shows the area now under

control of the wind farm developers. These points marking out the

These points marking out thd proposed wind turbine locations.

These points marking out the proposed wind turbine locathons As

you can see, the two areas appear proposed wind turbine locations. As

you can see, the two areas `ppear to match exactly. I do not move in

match exactly. I do not movd in circles where people give away large

parcels of land, so perhaps I do not understand how these things work,

but to me it seems rather strange and I think he could give us a

little bit more of a detaildd explanation on that. The question

little bit more of a detailed explanation on that. The qudstion as

explanation on that. The question as to why William Dartmouth tr`nsferred

this land remains unanswered. The developer's website reveals that

after years of searching for the best site for the wind farm we found

a suitable location on Slaithwaite Moor. Valley Wind Co`operathve

a suitable location on Slaithwaite Moor. Valley Wind Co`operative was

created in 2009 to take the idea forward. We asked Valley Wind when

they first approached the l`ndowner they first approached the l`ndowner

about the project and who that landowner was, but our questions

were met with this brief statement...

William Dartmouth declined our request for an interview. In a

statement he said he derives no benefit, financial or otherwise

from the land as it stands, and nor would he if the planning application

were successful. He goes on to say he fully endorses the party policy

to oppose onshore wind development. Many of our leading politichans

to oppose onshore wind development. Many of our leading politicians have

family members who are, or who have been associated with, the whnd

been associated with, the wind energy industry. It's very good for

rich people very, very good indeed. If you're a landowner and you get

?1000 a day for just putting wind turbines on your land, isn't that

great? The difference between what UKIP are

saying and what apparently hs happening with this land, yes,

saying and what apparently is happening with this land, yds, I

think there are questions still outstanding. Obviously UKIP are

trading on the fact that people are disillusioned with the three

disillusioned with the thred Westminster parties, but I think

this shows that actually, as some of us suspected, they don't re`lly have

higher standards themselves, and it really does look a little bht

higher standards themselves, and it really does look a little bit dodgy

in terms of, just double st`ndards in terms of, just double standards

really. William Dartmouth owns land adjacent to this proposed whnd

really. William Dartmouth owns land adjacent to this proposed wind farm

site. Some will be expecting him to lodge an objection.

We asked William Dartmouth to join us to discuss this. Both he and the

UKIP party chairman declined our request for an interview. And we

were told by a party press officer that no one from UKIP would be

available to talk about this. We should also say that a full list of

candidates standing in the European candidates standing in the European

elections in the south`west is available on the BBC websitd.

elections in the south`west is available on the BBC website. Neil,

available on the BBC websitd. Neil, what do you make of this story? I

think it is something that the UKIP party must answer, because there is

obviously confusion here. Who did own the land and at what tile was

Lord Dartmouth tenant of th`t land? But that is very much for the party

to identify and answer, bec`use they're the ones that are opposing

wind farms. They have to be absolutely sure that their lembers

absolutely sure that their members are not actually building whnd

are not actually building wind farms. But it is not for me as

another party to actually throw too many bricks at them, but I think the

public out there will want to know, if UKIP are against wind farms, are

they absolutely certain that none of their members have actually

benefited from having wind farms. That's the question that thdy have

to answer. benefited from having wind farms.

That's the What would the Conservatives do if one of their

party members were in this situation, do you think Western

marketing they would take qtite strong action and Ailsa think that

probably they would actually put somebody up to answer it, whether we

like it or not. The final point I will make, it is no good UKHP

like it or not. The final point I will make, it is no good UKIP saying

they are not a political party, they are both politics, when the

obviously have managed this story in a way in which nobody has been

obviously have managed this story in a way in which nobody has bden put

up able to speak on behalf of UKIP. If anything is being managed, media

managed, I suggest that that is Would you agree with Neil on this? I

think Neil's comments about media management on this are absolutely

right. This is something which management on this are absolutely

right. This is something whhch does right. This is something which does

need to be properly scrutinhsed right. This is something whhch does

need to be properly scrutinised. The need to be properly scrutinised. The

public really do deserve to know a little bit about the people who are

seeking their votes. The media are certainly looking at this, I'd

seeking their votes. The media are certainly looking at this, H'd be

very surprised if, in the coming week, we don't see a little bit more

about the background to this story. Alison, we are in an election

period, there is an element that this could just be dirty campaigning

by the opponents and a bit of opportunism. No, no. I think this

has all come out and it is clearly something which the UKIP candidate

himself needs to speak on. Ht's disappointing that he is not here

today to explain precisely what happened and that way of course

today to explain precisely what happened and that way of cotrse we

happened and that way of course we would know, wouldn't we? It would

have been best for him to come on and answer it, then we would know.

Moving on, alongside the Euro elections in just over a week's

elections in just over a wedk's time, there will be local elections

in Plymouth, Exeter and Weylouth time, there will be local elections

in Plymouth, Exeter and Weymouth And in Plymouth, Exeter and Weylouth And

Portland. We have been to one ward in Plymouth where the battle

Portland. We have been to one ward in Plymouth where the battld for

in Plymouth where the battle for votes is being fought alongside

major plans to redevelop one of votes is being fought alongside

major plans to redevelop ond of the major plans to redevelop one of the

city's key landmarks. With the opening of John Lewis, and

imminent arrival of IKEA, Exeter appears to be on the up. Plxmouth,

appears to be on the up. Plymouth, too, is aiming to up its gale,

appears to be on the up. Plxmouth, too, is aiming to up its game, but

too, is aiming to up its gale, but not quickly enough for some. The

council needs to be more ambitious, and that is why we need a

Conservative`led council in Plymouth. It will mean we c`n

Conservative`led council in Plymouth. It will mean we can bring

in IKEA, John Lewis, and evdry other bid that we want to. I think that

the bidding system in Plymotth bid that we want to. I think that

the bidding system in Plymouth City the bidding system in Plymouth City

Council has been poor recently, as we look at last year's City of

Culture bid that failed. The Labour`led administration h`s

rebranded Plymouth as Britahn's Ocean City. And it has ambitious

plans for the city centre. We're providing more than shopping, we're

providing experiences, we'rd providing a range of restaurants,

we're providing a cultural offer, a history centre. We're revamping our

libraries, we're doing a range of different things, not just going to

a mall. Exeter is right to up its a mall. Exeter is right to tp its

game, and so too are we. And I don't think we're doing anything less than

Exeter City Council is doing. I think we're probably doing lore

Exeter City Council is doing. I think we're probably doing more. For

many people arriving in Plymouth the first welcome they get is from this

somewhat tired`looking coach station here at Bretonside. The Labour`led

City Council has announced plans to sell the site for redeveloplent The

?50 million plans will mean a 12`screen cinema complex, 13

restaurants, and parking spaces 12`screen cinema complex, 13

restaurants, and parking sp`ces for restaurants, and parking sp`ces for

around 400 cars. The coach station would move from here, to here, on

the site of this disused car park, which is much nearer to the mainline

train station. The Conservative candidate for this area is in

train station. The Conservative candidate for this area is hn favour

candidate for this area is in favour of the plans. But some in hhs party

of the plans. But some in his party question the need for anothdr cinema

and more restaurants. The ruling Labour group on the City Cotncil

and more restaurants. The rtling Labour group on the City Council say

the relocation of the bus station could bring much`needed invdstment

could bring much`needed investment into the west end of the city. This

part of the town has been struggling in recent times. They estimate the

in recent times. They estim`te the relocation will bring around 200,000

visitors to this area. The Liberal Democrats don't have any councillors

in Plymouth at the moment btt Democrats don't have any cotncillors

in Plymouth at the moment but they in Plymouth at the moment btt they

still have ideas about what needs to happen. Pulling all that down,

completely redeveloping the whole of the western approach so that you

have a broad highway that nded have a broad highway that need

something special for it. So that this part of the city is as

attractive to everybody as the East End of the city. The elections are

unlikely to affect the redevelopment proposals, although the

Conservatives have some criticisms they are properly supported.

``broadly supportive. And even if they did oppose them they would need

to make huge gains to overcome Labour's majority of eight

councillors and wind control of the city council.

There are three other candidates standing in that ward. Andy Dale

represents the Green Part, Roy Kettle is the candidate for UKIP,

and Paddy Ryan for the Tradd and Paddy Ryan for the Trade

Unionists and Socialists Ag`inst Cuts.

And to discuss this we're joined by Lib Dem councillor Keith Baldry

Welcome to the programme. Thank you. Before we come to you, I am going to

start this discussion with @lison. We had a Conservative candidate in

the film there who said that if the Tories were in charge in Plymouth he

would have a John Lewis and an IKEA now in Plymouth. What do yot

would have a John Lewis and an IKEA now in Plymouth. What do you think

now in Plymouth. What do yot think of that? The Labour council have

done brilliantly well. The Bretonside development as proposed

brings multi`million pound development into the city, `n IMAX

development into the city, an IMAX cinema, one of only eight in the

country. The nearest is in Cardiff. You're bringing 200,000 people and

passengers in on the new coaches passengers in on the new coaches

directly into the heart of the retail and that is hugely important

in terms of improving retail sales, but more importantly we are moving

towards looking more like M`nchester are Liverpool, for you have the old

city centre models gone, you are Liverpool, for you have the old

city centre models gone, you have leisure, commerce, housing `s well

as retail. You've never been tempted to shop in Exeter? No, I haven't,

actually. I genuinely haven't shopped in Exeter. Plymouth has ..

Exeter is doing well, that's great for Exeter, it's half the size

Exeter is doing well, that's great for Exeter, it's half the shze of

for Exeter, it's half the size of Plymouth. We are the economhc driver

Plymouth. We are the economic driver in the region and I believe that

John Lewis, who are slowly loving their interests down the peninsula,

I'm sure there are already looking at Plymouth. Next hotspot. Indeed.

at Plymouth. Next hotspot. Hndeed. Is Alison right here, Labour are

doing well, they're rejuven`ting Plymouth, we don't need the Tories

to take control? I think it's a case of who is running the country and

the overall economics and it's great to see the economy picking tp,

especially here in the West Country, and I'm especially keen to see

Plymouth grow and Exeter grow. It's not a case of one or the other and I

think they have to be combined and I think that if we can bring a

think they have to be combined and I think that if we can bring ` John

Lewis, an IKEA in here, it would be great. I think they will come here.

great. I think they will cole here. It is a combination of not only how

city councils are run but how the County of Devon is run. Your

colleague has not been making grand claims? Hopefully he can

substantiate those claims. Without him here I cannot comment. Obviously

he thinks he can. Keith, have the Lib Dems given up on Plymouth? You

are fielding for candidates only in this election, aren't you? Xes,

are fielding for candidates only in this election, aren't you? Yes, but

this election, aren't you? Xes, but we're fielding for high`quality

candidates. All parties find it difficult to find candidates. We've

seen with some parties what happens when you select some, shall we say,

less able candidates and we had gaffes from some parties, all

parties. We took a decision in Plymouth that we would get far

higher quality people who could slot straighteners high`quality

councillors. We have just hdard .. You've not had a presence on the

council for nearly a decade. This is your new strategy? Slim down the

number of candidates and make sure they are more electable? We don t

they are more electable? We don't kid ourselves were going to take

control, but to have for high`quality candidates that could

become councillors would be a great stepping stone. We've just seen an

example of the candidate th`t has example of the candidate th`t has

got enormously exulted views of what backbench Conservative councillor

can do. Let's be realistic. We want councillors that are on there that

will fight for Plymouth in a will fight for Plymouth in `

realistic way. Are you worried will fight for Plymouth in a

realistic way. Are you worrhed you realistic way. Are you worried you

will lose votes to Labour? H'm realistic way. Are you worrhed you

will lose votes to Labour? I'm not will lose votes to Labour? H'm not

worried about losing votes hn any direction. We're probably just

worried about losing votes in any direction. We're probably jtst as

direction. We're probably just as likely to lose votes to UKIP as we

are to the Conservatives. T`lking likely to lose votes to UKIP as we

are to the Conservatives. Talking of are to the Conservatives. Talking of

losing votes to UKIP, Neil, how worried are you? Hugo Swire has

already said that he is very concerned down in south`west. Bound

to be concerned, but UKIP is picking up votes from all parties because

to be concerned, but UKIP is picking up votes from all parties bdcause it

is protest votes they are picking up is protest votes they are picking up

and it clearly comes to these elections, who is actually going to

deliver referendum on Europd, that deliver referendum on Europe, that

is the Conservative Party. We are naturally concerned, concerned

whenever we lose votes, but from then Liberal Democrats point of view

in Plymouth, when it comes to the percentage of vote that you then

actually achieve in Plymouth, it will be much lower. It is a good

idea to field as many candidates as possible. Parties do generally known

I that the local elections will be a better guide than European dlections

better guide than European elections in terms of how general elections

will pan out. Labour has to do well. We would hope to pick up se`ts in

We would hope to pick up seats in elections across the south`west

but, to come back to your point about UKIP, and where voter coming

from for them, what we're phcking up from for them, what we're picking up

now is that people who were previously saying they were going to

vote UKIP, now they are acttally vote UKIP, now they are actually

saying that we were thinking about 14 UKIP, as more of their policies

are coming out, people are beginning to ask questions. It is time

are coming out, people are beginning to ask questions. It is timd to

are coming out, people are beginning to ask questions. It is time to move

on. Thank you very much for joining us. It is time for our regular

round`up of the political week in 60 round`up of the political wdek in 60

seconds. There were claims a hospital in

Cornwall might have to closd There were claims a hospital in

Cornwall might have to closd because of a long`term health funding

shortfall in the county. As a result of underfunding it has left a legacy

of ?220 million which the government has not given us which we deserve.

has not given us which we ddserve. Concern about the security of the

deal to build a new nuclear reactor at Hinkley Point after warnhngs that

the contract could violate European the contract could violate European

rules on state subsidies. It has to be put forward with fracking relates

will go out in the near future. I have about ?50 million worth of

maintenance backlog, I am ndver going to achieve it. A woman refuses

to pay her council fine and feeding seagulls. `` fine after feeding

seagulls. Alison, let us look at this issue of

feeding seagulls. It is interesting. The only way that the counchl could

find this woman was for littering when she was feeding these seagulls.

What do you think about it? Should it be allowed? Councils need to make

sure they have the appropriate sure they have the appropri`te

bylaws in place. Seagulls have bylaws in place. Seagulls have

voracious appetites and thex will voracious appetites and they will

eat almost anything. They frighten off other smaller birds that we want

to see in our towns and cities. off other smaller birds that we want

to see in our towns and cithes. I to see in our towns and cithes. I

have evidence of people here have have evidence of people here have

regularly fed smaller birds through winter but the seagulls come along

winter but the seagulls comd along and those smaller birds are no

longer present. Is she right? I think so. We have to be careful we

think so. We have to be cardful we do not become Big Brother, I accept

do not become Big Brother, H accept that. But if you feed seagulls,

especially in the city, then they will come. We had a photograph

especially in the city, then they will come. We had a photogr`ph taken

one day and we put some fish and chips on top of all waste bhn and

chips on top of all waste bin and down came the seagulls, thex

immediately had the fish and off it went. If you feed them more then

they will come back for mord. We they will come back for mord. We

have to be careful. I was have to be have to be careful. I was have to be

got right and I think that the small birds are the ones that we should

concentrate on. Seagulls are birds are the ones that we should

concentrate on. Seagulls ard not birds are the ones that we should

concentrate on. Seagulls are not in concentrate on. Seagulls are not in

Endangered Species Act. Maybe we should organise a call? `` seagulls

are not an endangered species. Sometimes there are too manx

are not an endangered specids. Sometimes there are too many of

Sometimes there are too manx of them. We have to be careful about

feeding them, we really do. I am going to stop you there, that

feeding them, we really do. I am going to stop you there, th`t is the

going to stop you there, that is the Sunday Politics in the north`west. I

will hand the website now. Now it is back to

you, Andrew. Welcome back, let's go straight to

our panel. What did you make of Mr Alexander's defence of the Labour

party election broadcast? It is difficult for them because they

started by saying they were not going to do negative campaigning and

they have thrown that away for an advert which is funny but crude in

the class war sense. He didn't look thrilled to be defending it. There

is a page in Tony Blair's memoirs talking about negative campaigning,

and he says that anything too extreme turns off the average voter

so his line of attack on Hague was funny jokes but... I think this

failed the Blair test, it was too vicious. If your strategy is to

shore up your car vote, that advert was genius. If your strategy is to

reach out to a broader number of voters, Middle Britain, then that

advert was a complete disaster. It looks like there is a lot of

negativity and smears all round in the next year. That definitely looks

the way we are going. They will be essentially trying to re-run by --

the American election. I am slightly puzzled why we cannot have our own

election gurus who live here and understand the country. I should

point out that the ?450 extra VAT that was claimed in that Labour

poster, both Ed Balls and the Labour Treasury team have said that is ?450

per year. Nonsense the VAT rise, one year. I should also point out that

Nigel Farage said to Norman Smith, the BBC is always reliable Norman

Smith that if you run in Newark and lost the bubble would burst. I

should also point out that although a number of the tax rises I

mentioned on council tax, minimum wage tax and some other things that

UKIP wants to cuts, a couple of these are in the local manifesto but

several are not. They are on the UKIP website, which is still current

and dated 2014. We like to make sure we are absolutely right. Let's talk

about Nick Clegg and Michael Gove and the latest spat. Let me show you

this headline in the Observer this morning. From both the Independent,

he called him a zealot, lunatic is of -- another word. Do we take this

seriously? It hinges on this question of what counts as an area

of need in education. The Lib Dems say an area of need is one where

there are not enough school places to meet local demand. He says it can

also be a place where there are surplus places but that is for a

reason. Local places don't trust those schools to do a good job for

their kids. It surprises me because there isn't a yawning distance

between David Laws and Michael Gove. David Laws has found himself between

a rock and a hard place because I asked -- as I understand it most Lib

Dems don't like the free schools but Mr laws was quite sympathetic to it

and he is now having to this respect it. When they asked people who are

the most hated politicians in a poll were this week, Michael Gove is off

the charts, far above David Cameron or George Osborne. This is

tit-for-tat war. The Liberal Democrats believe Michael Gove had a

hand in leaking the document that showed Nick Clegg was opposing the

tougher Chris Grayling position on knife crime. They are saying there

were Cabinet ministers who never usually attend the sub Cabinet

meeting, they turned up and the document is leaked so what we are

getting is tit for tat on that. It is inevitable but it is not good for

either side of the Coalition. Voters will look at it and say it is

politics of the playground. I read in the Mail on Sunday this morning

that some Tory insiders are accusing Lib Dems of spreading rumours about

the camera in marriage. The rebuttals of education story is that

the free school meals is sucking money away. I always thought they

would work together without fuss and yet it has been more the source of

disagreement then I would have expected a couple of years ago. Is

it serious? It is serious obviously, using that language, but is it fatal

for the Coalition? I think it is a road bump because I don't think

anybody wants to dissolve the Coalition. It is a challenge for

Labour because where do they stand on the free schools? They invented

the Academy programme so it is difficult for them to take a

hands-off approach at this stage. There was a danger for Michael Gove

that he looks ideological but the danger for the Liberal Democrats is

that they are breaking the rules for the Coalition they said that they

wouldn't break which is that they looked like opposition in

government. Is Michael Gove's position safe? Very safe. If he

moves in a reshuffle that will be to a a job. That's all for today. The

Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two at lunchtime from Tuesday

onwards. I'll be back here on BBC One at 11am next week. Remember if

it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

What if the person that killed her...

I found out she'd been taking drugs. Just let me explain.

You wasn't at that party all night. Yeah, I was.

What was she even doing there? Oi, you keep your mouth shut.

She was exchanging a significant number of texts and calls

with someone in the weeks leading up to her death.

It's like we didn't really know her at all.

You never know what goes on behind closed doors.