Browse content similar to 08/06/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools. | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign. | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission? | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
But could the arch europhile yet get the top job? | :01:05. | :01:14. | |
Here's to the quarter of a million votes. | :01:15. | :01:16. | |
And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs. | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
Coming up on the Sunday Polhtics in the South West: | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man? | :01:31. | :01:42. | |
And with me our panel of top political journalists, | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
This morning's political news is dominated | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling | :02:04. | :02:05. | |
The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots. | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp. | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted, | :02:33. | :02:34. | |
"why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry. | :02:45. | :02:51. | |
Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say. | :03:00. | :03:08. | |
The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools. | :03:09. | :03:18. | |
The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning. | :03:25. | :03:43. | |
Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she | :03:44. | :03:53. | |
has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website | :04:13. | :04:23. | |
and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a | :04:32. | :04:38. | |
vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell. | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out. | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the | :05:10. | :05:16. | |
politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the | :05:56. | :06:04. | |
Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is | :06:05. | :06:13. | |
fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The | :06:19. | :06:25. | |
view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
government introduced to do with the previous Labour government | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in | :06:56. | :06:57. | |
the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2 11 | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
when the Prime Minister talked about how extremists | :07:28. | :07:29. | |
warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system | :07:30. | :07:45. | |
is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe. | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt. | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of | :07:55. | :08:04. | |
their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham. | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the | :08:53. | :09:02. | |
leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted | :09:26. | :09:32. | |
curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender | :09:43. | :09:49. | |
segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
Where you have a state education system, which is about gender | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we | :11:16. | :11:24. | |
get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking | :11:25. | :11:31. | |
to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and | :11:36. | :11:44. | |
fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a | :11:45. | :11:52. | |
desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr | :11:58. | :12:09. | |
Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for | :12:10. | :12:18. | |
gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected | :12:28. | :12:35. | |
head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and | :12:36. | :12:42. | |
what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You | :12:50. | :12:56. | |
mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence | :12:57. | :13:05. | |
for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of | :13:20. | :13:26. | |
multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party, | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation. | :13:39. | :13:48. | |
In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
together to confront this problem for the sake of the children? There | :14:11. | :14:18. | |
are a number of reports going on in Birmingham. Some are led by the city | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
council, some by the Department for Education. Labour MPs this morning | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was | :15:05. | :15:12. | |
building on what Ed said the day after the elections in Berwick. We | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
have to make sure those communities who we historically represent regard | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
Labour as having a successful message for them. I am passionate | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
about making sure we have great vocational and technical education, | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
the great academic education in our schools. If we have more work to do | :15:29. | :15:36. | |
to get people to the polling booths, we must do that. We must | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
with listen to what she says. David Cameron has staked a lot on | :15:40. | :15:48. | |
stopping the former PM of Luxembourg - named by one newspaper as 'the | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
most dangerous man in Europe' because of his federalist views - | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
from becoming the next president Mr Cameron has reportedly described | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from the 80s who cannot solve the | :15:58. | :16:04. | |
problems of the next five years . But with the German Chancellor | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr Juncker, it's not a dead cert that | :16:08. | :16:10. | |
Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. This is what he had to say at the G7 | :16:11. | :16:13. | |
summit earlier this week: It is important that we have people | :16:14. | :16:23. | |
running the institutions of Europe who understand the need for change | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
and reform. I would argue that view is widely shared amongst other heads | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
of government and heads of state in the European Union. I am clear what | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away | :16:45. | :16:48. | |
from it would see Britain drift towards the exits. | :16:49. | :16:50. | |
We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is | :16:51. | :16:53. | |
a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker. | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists. | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both. | :17:09. | :17:16. | |
The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new | :17:17. | :17:24. | |
Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a | :17:38. | :17:44. | |
high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
president of the European Council after the proposal of the European | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr | :18:04. | :18:11. | |
Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us | :18:16. | :18:23. | |
one name that you would prefer? The prime Minister of Sweden, Christine | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
Lagarde, the minister from Lithuania, these are people who have | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
a record of old reform. Junker is the ultimate Europe insider. We need | :18:35. | :18:41. | |
radical inform. We need to respond to the message the electorate gave | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
us in the elections -- radical reform. Junker said he had to lie in | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
public, he allowed the security services to conduct a dirty tricks | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
campaign against his opponent. This is not who we want leading the | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo? | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks | :19:14. | :19:24. | |
against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government But | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
we need Europe more and he is not a man from the 80s. He is a man of | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
this century and in this century he made his own policy. He is the | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
winner of the European elections, he has a majority will stop Mrs | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
LANguard is not running because she knows she will not get the majority | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
in the European Parliament. -- Christine Lagarde is not running. It | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
is the Council of minister is that decides. No, the European Parliament | :20:22. | :20:29. | |
has the final word. The European Council can make a proposal by | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
majority in the light of the European elections after | :20:34. | :20:34. | |
consultation with the European Parliament. The council cannot get a | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
candidate against the will of the European Parliament. Mr Junker has a | :20:40. | :20:46. | |
majority in the European Parliament. Theoretically he is right, the | :20:47. | :20:49. | |
Parliament has do vote on the candidates proposed by the council. | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
I want to challenge the view that somehow he won the European | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
elections. There is no provision for Jean Claude Junker to stand in the | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
elections. He is saying that the EEP party got the most number of seats | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
in the Parliament but none of the electorate knew they were taking | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
part in this election. How many people who voted Labour in the | :21:11. | :21:12. | |
United Kingdom realised that their vote would count towards a German | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
socialist to be a candidate for the commission of presidency is a | :21:18. | :21:25. | |
nonsensical proposal. The elections were 28 individual elections with | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
hundreds of parties across Europe. To try to claim there is a | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
democratic mandate for somebody nobody has heard from Luxembourg to | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
take over the commission is a nonsense. People should know him, if | :21:35. | :21:52. | |
I should say that ironically. Newspapers talking about members of | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
the family of his wife with Nazi links... What is the answer to | :21:56. | :22:04. | |
Martin Callinan's point? I think it is clear that British Conservatives | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
have no candidate because they are not a broad European family, they | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
have not impacted on the selection of top candidates but it is a form | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
of isolation of the British Tory Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
Junker is appointed it could lead to Britain drifting towards the EU | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
exit, is that credible? Is it melodramatic? It is true that we | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
want to renegotiate the relationship. We want some serious | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
reform in Europe so the people who vote in a referendum will be able to | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
vote to stay in if that is what they want. We need a bold reformer, | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
somebody prepared to engage. That is not anti the interests of the UK. We | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
need to recognise there is a problem with public perception of the | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
European Union. Elmar Brok is proud to be one of the last bastions of | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
federalism that that is not where most of the public opinion is in | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
Europe. I understand why he wants his man installed but we need to | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
take into account the message of the letter -- the electorate. 25% of the | :23:09. | :23:14. | |
publishing of France were prepared to vote for an openly racist party. | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
We can't just ignore the signal that the electorate were sending us. If | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
enthusiasm for federalism was at an all-time low, it would be a slap in | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
the face for the voters of Europe to have a federalist as the president, | :23:31. | :23:37. | |
would it not? 70, 80% of the members of the European Parliament, selected | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
by their people, are pro-Europeans. These are the winners of the | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
European elections. Even in France, a majority of voters have voted | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
pro-European and that should be clear, not to make this a populist | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
thing which is not only to do with Europe. And we want to have a Europe | :23:54. | :24:05. | |
which is strong, the member states should do their things. We do not | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
want to have a European centralism, we do not want a European state | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
This is not at stake. Let's talk about the question of better | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
governance, let's talk about what was wrong in the past, we have to | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
become better, to change our programme in that question. That | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
should be the way we lead to come to positive results. Thank you for | :24:29. | :24:35. | |
that. Before we go, there is a British commissioner that needs to | :24:36. | :24:37. | |
be appointed to Brussels, do you like the sound of that? These are | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
matters for the Prime Minister, I am sure he has many excellent | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
candidates. Do you like the sound of it? Like previous British | :24:50. | :24:57. | |
commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil clinic, I have just lost an election | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
-- Neil Kinnock for the everybody who is asked would serve, I'm sure. | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
Just days ago UKIP were celebrating topping the poll in the European | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
They're claiming they'd have had two more MEPs | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
and the Greens two fewer had another party not confused the electorate. | :25:17. | :25:19. | |
What's more UKIP say it's the fault of the body | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
which was set up to oversee elections - the Electoral Commission | :25:23. | :25:25. | |
This is a party celebrating success at the European elections. They | :25:26. | :25:38. | |
didn't win a single MEP but nationally polled 250,000 votes | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
They are an independence from Europe, mostly people who were once | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
in UKIP, and that is rather the point. They may look like capers, | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
in UKIP, and that is rather the drink like capers, sound like capers | :25:53. | :26:08. | |
-- -- sound like kippers, but they are not. The name and the logo were | :26:09. | :26:16. | |
displayed on this banner when the party launched its campaign. UKIP | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
suggest the look, the wording and the inclusion of UK in now confused | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
voters, and are looking at rewriting such a wrong. The way that seats are | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
allocated in a European election under a proportional representation | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
system is using this formula. It was invented by a Belgian mathematician | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
in 1878 and it is essentially this. When all of the votes have been | :26:42. | :26:48. | |
tallied up, the one with the most seats gets the first MEPC in a | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
region. The others are allocated using votes cast divided by the | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
number of seats gained plus one -- first MEP seat in a region. UKIP | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
were concerned with South West and London. There they say, when the | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
last MEP seats were being allocated, if everyone who had voted for an | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
independence from Europe had meant to vote for UKIP and you tallied | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
their votes up, and added them to UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
each region and the greens would have lost them. Whether you can | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
prove that voters did that by mistake is a very different matter. | :27:30. | :27:36. | |
UKIP may have to just chalk it up to experience. It has happened before, | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
back in the European elections of 1994. Then in England under the | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
first past the post system. This man, Richard Huggett, decided to | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
stand as a little Democrat and polled a significant number of | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
votes. The Liberal Democrat candidate at the time is now an MP. | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
Many people voted and afterwards realised that they had bubbly voted | :28:01. | :28:07. | |
for -- probably voted for a little Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
they had been intending to do - bubbly voted for a literal Democrat | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
-- probably voted. Mr Sanders got some consolation In | :28:17. | :28:30. | |
1998, laws came into rule on so-called spoiler tactics and the | :28:31. | :28:32. | |
Electoral Commission was established. The Electoral | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
Commission are based on the seventh floor of this building and they did | :28:36. | :28:38. | |
look into this issue prior to voting. They have given us a | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
statement that reveals the conclusion they came to, part of | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
which says, we decided that the name of the party, and its description | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
are sufficiently different to those registered by the UK Independence | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
Party, UKIP, to mean, in our opinion, that voters were not likely | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
to be confused if they appeared on the same ballot paper. Pretty | :29:01. | :29:07. | |
conclusive stuff. Back at the pub, were an independence from Europe | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
just being crafty, or do UKIP need to wake up and smell the flowers? We | :29:12. | :29:18. | |
attack them in all areas. An independent study for Anglo | :29:19. | :29:19. | |
Netherlands because I was involved in the Dutch -- with the Dutch | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
member of Parliament and the description was UK Independence now, | :29:25. | :29:30. | |
nobody has a monopoly on the word independence. I have been fighting | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
for independence since I started in 1994, before I joined UKIP. The | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
party tell me they will stand again at the general election next year. | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
The ironies not lost on them or the major parties of UKIP complaining | :29:45. | :29:50. | |
that a smaller party has been taking votes of them. | :29:51. | :29:59. | |
Joining me now to discuss this story is Gawain Towler. | :30:00. | :30:02. | |
He's the UKIP candidate for the South West region, who failed to get | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
And in our Bristol studios is the victorious Green MEP for | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
How many of the 23,000 votes that were cast for the Independence party | :30:11. | :30:24. | |
were meant for you? Impossible to tell. I want to congratulate Molly | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
for getting elected. They are the breaks. I do not think there is a | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
purpose in complaining about boats that are cast. Do you think you | :30:35. | :30:47. | |
would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. You have to look at the | :30:48. | :30:49. | |
would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. You have to look boats for parties | :30:50. | :30:51. | |
people have not heard of and those with a long tradition that people | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
have heard of. I do not think there is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
ballot papers, the amount of people who had voted at the top and the | :31:05. | :31:10. | |
bottom, most people are not anoraks, they say, they are the people I | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
want. They know what they are after. I think it is at least told. It is | :31:16. | :31:30. | |
said you owe your seat to And Independence Party. It is strange | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
for a man to say he could represent people in the south-west better than | :31:38. | :31:44. | |
me. There has been outpouring of delight that a Green MP has finally | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
been elected. A number of people have been saying they have been | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
voting all their lives and it is the first time they have elected | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
anybody. I am glad to represent them in a significant legislature. What | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
would you say to that? I find it strange. I am perfectly happy for | :32:05. | :32:13. | |
her to be elected. I feel the electoral commission has questions | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
to answer. But, congratulations to Molly. Why do you want an extra seat | :32:18. | :32:23. | |
for the Greens in the European Parliament but your national share | :32:24. | :32:30. | |
of the vote actually fell. We did come under pressure nationally. If | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
he is complaining about the role the election commission said we could | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
stand, the rule we were not happy with was the off, ruling which said | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
we were not a main party. We got significantly less media time and | :32:44. | :32:50. | |
that is why our belt actually fell. Not on the Daily Politics or the | :32:51. | :32:53. | |
Sunday Politics, where you were well represented. Was it a problem for | :32:54. | :33:04. | |
UKIP in other parts of the country? Only in London. What do you think | :33:05. | :33:19. | |
happened there? Very much the same. I do not think there is any doubt, | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
the number of people we have had getting in touch saying, I am really | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
sorry, I made a mess, that they voted for the wrong party. They are | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
the breaks. Politics is politics. What I would like to see and what is | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
reasonable, and I hope Molly would agree, there needs to be a reform - | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
a serious reform of the Electoral Commission. There is no appeal | :33:44. | :33:50. | |
process. They say it is not confusing. Lets see if she thinks | :33:51. | :33:57. | |
that. I make it a policy never to agree with UKIP. What is important | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
to note, if you look at the votes and the way the votes fell out and | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
the seats fell out in the south-west, it is difficult for an | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
Electoral Commission to turn boats into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
and 33% of the seats. For them, the system worked very well in the | :34:16. | :34:22. | |
south-west. Nationally, Greens did not get represented as the vote | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
share would require. That is because you get very small number of seats | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
in the different regions and you have to reach a high threshold. The | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
Green Party has a right to complain about the level of seats we have | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
ended up with. White rapper you have complaints about the Electoral | :34:40. | :34:46. | |
Commission? We need to move to a proportional system for elections | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
generally. If we poll around 7% 8%, we should be looking at having 0, | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
40 seats in the national legislature. We need to consider | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
proportional representation for national elections. Do you accept | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
the ballot paper may have confused some people? I think what happened | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
is that some people in UKIP were very worried. Worried about the | :35:09. | :35:15. | |
rightward move of UKIP and the authoritarian leadership of Nigel | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
Farage. He set up a separate party. That is what happens in politics, | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
particularly when parties are led by demagogues and are not focused on | :35:25. | :35:35. | |
Democratic policy. Do you have any legal redress to this? None | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
whatsoever. Have you had legal advice? I am told there is no | :35:41. | :35:49. | |
redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly does not agree with UKIP on anything | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
so, if we say the sun rises in the morning, she probably will disagree | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
with that. If, at the next election, there is a party called the Grown | :36:00. | :36:07. | |
Party, will she then complain? There needs to be some level of | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
accountability and, without that, one wonders what is going on. We | :36:12. | :36:18. | |
have an organisation with enormous and important power and influence | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
which is setup to stop this of thing going on. It has failed. Not has it | :36:22. | :36:29. | |
has failed. Not present served in Tower Hamlets and there have been | :36:30. | :36:32. | |
massive problems with postal votes. It is failing on almost everything | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
it is supposed to do. Just to go back for a final point from Molly. | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
Should there be a right of appeal to the rulings of the Electoral | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
Commission? You need to have an authoritative body that makes | :36:49. | :36:51. | |
decisions in this area and we have the Electoral Commission. It is | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
about being sore losers on the part of UKIP. I am delighted to represent | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
people in the South West. Should there be a right of appeal or not? | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
You need an authoritative body and the Electoral Commission is that. I | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
do not think it should have a right to appeal. | :37:11. | :37:12. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be discussing extremism | :37:18. | :37:33. | |
Coming up on the Sunday Polhtics in the South West: | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
The price of beef and a warning regions like ours could fall behind | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
Transport links outside London are on the agenda. | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
The South West has been described as chronically underfunded. | :37:45. | :37:46. | |
And for the next 20 minutes, I'm joined by two former MPs but | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
still very much active politicians ` the Lib Dem peer John Burnett and | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
I want that talk about the broader political picture, John, we have had | :37:53. | :38:05. | |
a catastrophic result for the Liberal Democrats in the Newark | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
by`election and a grim result in the Europe... I'm glad you can laugh! | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
Hang on a minute! In the European elections. What is your rechpe to | :38:17. | :38:24. | |
try to pull the party up ag`in? Let's try, without wanting to be too | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
controversial so early in the programme, I do understand ht hasn't | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
been a brilliant three or four months. Bad European elections, bad | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
local elections on the same day and Newark was not good. You just | :38:38. | :38:46. | |
managed to beat the loony c`ndidate, Nick The Flying Brick. With Newark, | :38:47. | :38:55. | |
we had easterly last year and rather inauspicious circumstances, similar | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
circumstances for the Conservatives, two MPs, sitting MPs, resigning in | :39:00. | :39:06. | |
disgrace I think one would have to say. And we won in easterly and the | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
Conservatives won last night. But that was then, this is now. We are a | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
year from a general election. The point is a good point, I'm saying | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
the electorate are sophisticated and they look at by`election and they | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
decide which is the candidate who is most likely to win. It is what I | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
call a by`election squeeze. We were like live to win, UKIP were second | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
and so it was a choice betwden the liberals and UKIP. Yet it w`s a | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
choice between the Conservatives, UKIP and in both circumstances the | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
sitting candidates' party prevailed. We take some, where we have sitting | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
MPs, I think we are... We are in a better position than a lot of people | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
say. We have one now ex`Libdral Democrat peer, Lord Oakeshott who | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
had firm views on a change of direction and leader for thd party, | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
do you have any advice for the party as a whole, for the leader? My | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
advice is to stick with the coalition. Not to break the bonds we | :40:11. | :40:17. | |
have made. Not to break the decision we have made. Stick with it to the | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
end. And I think there will be differences, which will comd to | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
light. As they have done in the past. But stick with it. It is the | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
country, will reward us. I'l conVinced of that on general | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
election evening. Because wd were in a catastrophicically bad situation | :40:37. | :40:39. | |
as a country and we put our party differences to one side for the good | :40:40. | :40:48. | |
of country. It looks as if Conservative voters are ple`sed with | :40:49. | :40:51. | |
their party and the people who are pleased with you, say they have | :40:52. | :40:54. | |
propped up the Conservatives and nodded through a lot of polhcies we | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
can't stand. Well, there have been a lot of policies that we havd put | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
forward. Raising... You're not getting any credit for it. Ht is | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
good of you to imply we havd done some good Liberal Democrat things. | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
On the ground, John, the Liberal Democrats are a busted flush. The | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
electorate for the first tile had a chance to look at you and they don't | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
like what they have seen. I think they believe and they will believe | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
on a general election day that we have done something for the | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
country's good. Not for our narrow political ends and we will get | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
credit for that. I just don't accept that. I think the people have seen | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
and they haven't liked. I don't think it is going to come b`ck in | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
any way. I think you are in for a grim night next May. As are the | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
Conservatives, because people don't like that. When it comes to a choice | :41:49. | :41:53. | |
between UKIP and the Conservatives, moat would rather go with the | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
Conservatives. Things are not going brilliantly for Labour. At this | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
point, we're a year from a general election, you should be doing | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
better. New ark demographics meant we were not in a strong poshtion. | :42:08. | :42:14. | |
The media, it has just made it a Conservative/UKIP race and people | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
don't think that if the othdr parties have a chance. Candx, don't | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
blame the media, you're showing an Achilles heel there. You have to | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
look at yourself. Of course. If we look at elections in the Sotth West | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
and in Plymouth, a city that either controlled by the Conservathves or | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
by Labour, you have just held on to control, losing seats to UKHP. We | :42:37. | :42:42. | |
lost one or two. Three. All right three. I'm not in that partx. It is | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
generally head`to`head and xou should be doing well. We ard doing | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
much better than people are giving us credit for in local crithcal | :42:53. | :43:02. | |
elections UKIP won 149 seats we won 1,500, taking the key seats we need | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
to win. Yes, we are going to have to work harder in Plymouth. But I think | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
Luke and Pollard and others will win and we will have more Labour MPs in | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
the South West come May and we are in a different position to the | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
Liberal Democrats. Are you happy with Ed Milliband? Yes, I stpported | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
Ed Milliband. I don't believe you should be electing your polhticians | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
on whether you think they'rd slightly not photo generalic. `` | :43:29. | :43:36. | |
photo genic. Would Winston Churchill have won? No, we need polithcians | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
that will engage on the isste who have bright minds and will lead our | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
country. I think that when the country gets to know Ed Milliband | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
they will like what they sed. Maybe he is just not smoking a Sigg ah? | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
Maybe not.//`` cigar. This week a cross`party grotp of MPs | :43:54. | :44:00. | |
called on the Government to tackle the chronic underfunding | :44:01. | :44:03. | |
of transport outside London. The Transport Select Committee also | :44:04. | :44:05. | |
says it's concerned that ch`nges to the way regions bid | :44:06. | :44:07. | |
for infrastructure money cotld see areas like the South West f`lling | :44:08. | :44:10. | |
even further behind. When you're a business | :44:11. | :44:12. | |
which needs to get goods to clients, Particularly if, | :44:13. | :44:15. | |
like this Cornish lighting firm 99% Customers will not buy from someone | :44:16. | :44:25. | |
they don't think will delivdr the goods on time all of the tile. Price | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
doesn't come into it. If yot can't deliver the goods, it will be China. | :44:31. | :44:42. | |
This week MPs on the Transport Select Committee said | :44:43. | :44:44. | |
the underfunding of transport projects in the regions when | :44:45. | :44:46. | |
The latest available Governlent figures show spending per hdad in | :44:47. | :44:50. | |
the South West is the lowest in the whole of the country at ?184 a head, | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
For the lighting company, it's improvements to the A30 and the | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
Just a few miles from Peter's factory is this notorious bottleneck | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
The traffic might be flowing freely today, but in the sulmer | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
months queues can sometimes stretch up to nine miles long. | :45:08. | :45:10. | |
The Government's given ?30 lillion to widen it, | :45:11. | :45:12. | |
but Cornwall Council's still finding the funds to match this. | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
With the impact of this year's storms on thd | :45:17. | :45:18. | |
region's rail links still top of people's minds, the MPs report also | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
warns a new funding system from next year might not make things fairer. | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
The bodies responsible for driving economic growth ` Local Entdrprise | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
Partnerships ` will be compdting for money from a central pot. | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
There are well resourced LEPs and less well resourced. The better | :45:36. | :45:43. | |
resource rd more likely to do better. The interests of Devon and | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
Cornwall are almost identic`l for transport. But they're two separate | :45:49. | :45:51. | |
LEPs. If they were one, thex would have twice the resource in order to | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
compete with other parts of the country. | :45:57. | :46:05. | |
But others argue there is already a joint approach | :46:06. | :46:08. | |
on all major transport topics like the A303 or rail links. | :46:09. | :46:10. | |
And there's a determination not to be shdelined | :46:11. | :46:12. | |
The system where you have competition means your fighting | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
agains people who can probably put up a bigger case. But the | :46:16. | :46:21. | |
alternative of allocation works against somewhere like Cornwall with | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
a small population. Neither of the alternatives are perfect. So I think | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
the only answer is to actually just ensure you argue your case very | :46:31. | :46:38. | |
strongly. As well as A30, there has been Government cash wards various | :46:39. | :46:45. | |
projects. But the select colmittee said funding for no area should | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
continue to be second class. And ministers now have two months to | :46:50. | :46:51. | |
respond. Transport links are a thing which | :46:52. | :47:07. | |
the South West feels hard done by and the Conservatives and the | :47:08. | :47:10. | |
Liberal Democrat are saying this is because we have a Labour government | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
and not many MP ands they'rd not interested in us. If these LPs are | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
like `` right we are looking at situation where that could get | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
worse? The commons had a good debate about this and certain commhtments | :47:25. | :47:27. | |
were made by the Government minister. That was two or three | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
months ago. I will hope, I hope to have a debate in the House of Lords | :47:33. | :47:38. | |
on this before the Christmas recess. The point is there has been | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
considerable neglect of the South West for decades. We need bdtter | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
transport, we need fairer ftnding for schools and fairer fundhng for | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
the police for that matter. Now on transport, in my view we have a case | :47:52. | :47:58. | |
that is unanswerable. You absolutely, it is most perstasive, | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
roads, rail and air actuallx, you missed the air side, becausd | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
Plymouth has lost its airport. It is important. I believe in competition. | :48:08. | :48:14. | |
I believe in free markets. But you must allow competition to rtn fairly | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
and it has not opinion fair for decades for us in the South West. | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
Because we don't have the infrastructure to help our | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
businesses and our enterprises and there is you know, we inherhted I | :48:26. | :48:31. | |
won't go on too much about ht, but a par louse economic situation. So we | :48:32. | :48:36. | |
haven't been able to be libdral with money. In the next Parliament we | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
have done our house keeping and kept expenditure down. Let's hopd, let's | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
pray we get more funding, ddcent roads and rail Wau and maybd a rail | :48:47. | :48:52. | |
link between through Okehampton and Tavistock. If we have a Labour | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
Government will we have to hope and pray? Don't think. There has been | :48:58. | :49:04. | |
praying and not much hope whth this government. You have had yotr turn. | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
A Labour Government will devolve money. What worries me about the | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
proposals is the private sector will bid. We know that the one place | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
where there is loads of mondy is London and that is where thdy will | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
be attracted to go. I saw your figures. But I have seen figures | :49:22. | :49:28. | |
that say we get ?18 a head `s opposed to over 2,000 in London The | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
result is that we are not gdtting our fair share. If you devolve money | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
to the region, that is ring fenced for the region. I think loc`l | :49:38. | :49:40. | |
authorities and the Governmdnt can work together rather than this idea | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
that the private sector will come rung along and put loads of money | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
into Devon and Cornwall. It is not going to happen. A Labour mhnister | :49:50. | :49:56. | |
from the South West pupped the plug on the 8. 30. And Liberal Ddmocrats | :49:57. | :50:03. | |
stopped the dualing of A30. You had a regional structure with more | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
public money and none of thd things were achieved when you were in | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
government. Dualing of the trains and the A30, which people s`id it | :50:14. | :50:19. | |
would never happen and it dhd. And people actually were amazed that | :50:20. | :50:22. | |
happened. That dualing was critical and it has helped amazingly. Look at | :50:23. | :50:29. | |
the small branch lines in Cornwall, held up nationally as a gre`t | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
example, funded through European and government money. You and I will | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
agree on this, successive governments have let down the South | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
West. But we haven't had thd money. Next time just give us a ch`nce It | :50:43. | :50:49. | |
is true that the, both you `nd the Conservatives are against rdgional | :50:50. | :50:55. | |
structures and we have many LEPs and the old government region is | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
geographically identical with the big transport schemes, becatse the | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
rail is fine beyond Wiltshire. Isn't there an argument for doing it on a | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
regional basis? Not so much to us. But it is to the Conservatives. I no | :51:12. | :51:18. | |
ethat. And all I can say is that the politicians of Devon and Cornwall | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
should peek `` speak with one voice. They're beginning to. The ddbate | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
showed a coherence between `ll three parties that something must be done. | :51:27. | :51:30. | |
We have been left out for f`r too long. Decades of neglect. I would | :51:31. | :51:35. | |
agree and we need to do that. In Cornwall, many of us are saxing very | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
many things about what Cornwall needs to solve many of its own | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
problems. But this bidding for the private sector is not going to help | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
anyone and not going to help the South West. OK K | :51:48. | :51:59. | |
Farmers in the region say they're on the brink of protest acthon | :52:00. | :52:02. | |
as the price they're paid for beef continues to spiral downwards. | :52:03. | :52:05. | |
Some are now getting as much as ?500 less for each animal than | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
Anna Varle has been finding out more. | :52:09. | :52:11. | |
This time last year organic cattle like these were making | :52:12. | :52:14. | |
I can't without making profht. The cattle are in jeopardy if things | :52:15. | :52:29. | |
don't improve. But it is thd cattle that make this countryside. If you | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
look around, this beautiful part of the country. Without cattle grazing | :52:36. | :52:37. | |
it. It wouldn't be. The English Beef and Lamb Executive | :52:38. | :52:57. | |
says there are two main reasons Firstly, | :52:58. | :53:00. | |
consumers are buying less bdcause of And, secondly, there's | :53:01. | :53:03. | |
a lot more beef being imported And it's got to | :53:04. | :53:07. | |
the stage where farmers are considering taking action | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
if no agreement can be reached Kuze uz We are close to getting | :53:12. | :53:20. | |
action. We have a meeting whth the retailer. But we need something to | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
happen quickly. Farmers are in a dire strait and producing bdef at a | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
loss. It is not sustainable. We need to know where the retailers need to | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
source this meat from. If they don't want us, tell us. We will h`ve to | :53:36. | :53:40. | |
change our farming activitids, but people are desperate. | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
We need to take action. We can't sustain the way things are. Between | :53:45. | :53:55. | |
us we have got to try and work together with all these othdr group | :53:56. | :53:58. | |
and see what we can do for the industry. I think the Government | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
should intervene in the beef price. Because we have got the best welfare | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
standards there are in the world and we are being undermined by cheap | :54:10. | :54:16. | |
meat coming in. At the moment we are being really hammered. It is going | :54:17. | :54:19. | |
to be survival of the fittest I think. But is it time for the | :54:20. | :54:25. | |
Government to intervene? We are doing stuff to support the hndustry, | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
but we can't dictate prices. We want to support the industry and see a | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
thriving sector. There is the demand for the product. It is making sure | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
that that price gets through to the farm gate. The British Retahl | :54:39. | :54:44. | |
Consortium says they're payhng beef farm terse best price and not | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
responsible for this fall. Ht says that supermarkets continue to | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
support British beef and th`t the majority of beef sold is sthll | :54:53. | :54:58. | |
produced in this country. It is hoped talks between retailers and | :54:59. | :55:04. | |
farmers will avert any future action. It is well known th`t John | :55:05. | :55:10. | |
is a former marine and also a former cattle farmer. Cattle and corn and I | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
loved my farming and I love to see the Devon there too. But thhs is a | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
serious point. It concerns le. There have always been fluctuations in | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
brief prices and there is competition and markets. Obviously, | :55:25. | :55:31. | |
the pound is strong and there is confidence in sterling. That affects | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
the price. Because it makes it cheaper to import. What has | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
concerned me is the problem with milk as well, there is a suspicion | :55:40. | :55:44. | |
those of us who have been ehther in agriculture or involved in | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
agriculture, that I won't use the world collusion, but the | :55:49. | :55:51. | |
supermarkets seem to have a way not a rigging of the market, but making | :55:52. | :55:56. | |
sure they get a good deal from the farmerment That is a free m`rket | :55:57. | :55:59. | |
isn't it? It not a free market if they collude. I don't know whether | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
they are or not. But I suspdct that it won't be long before an | :56:04. | :56:09. | |
application is made to to grocery adjudicator to look at this to make | :56:10. | :56:12. | |
sure the market is working properly. Which the Government has just set | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
up. They set it up a year ago if you look on the web`site the supermarket | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
Tzar as they're called, doesn't appear to have done anything. Maybe | :56:23. | :56:27. | |
we will give him a job to do now. All the MPs in the South West and | :56:28. | :56:30. | |
people such as myself, we should be getting on the phone, writing the | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
letters, banging in the e`m`ils and saying get out there and do some | :56:36. | :56:38. | |
work. Somebody will have to take on the supermarkets. If it isn't the | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
supermarket Tzar s I don't know where we will go. We will end up | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
without a cattle industry. That would be a disaster. Just when maybe | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
there is a window with the Chinese opening up opportunities in the long | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
early`morning term which cotld give a new market to our farmers. We are | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
already exporting and doing well. We have got over the crisis of foot and | :57:00. | :57:08. | |
mouth and BSE. Our beef is luch sought after. But I believe now that | :57:09. | :57:14. | |
it is getting, farmers are feeling the pinch. Cattle farm tersd. It is | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
big business in the South Wdst. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
week or so an application is meat to the ` made to the grocery | :57:25. | :57:31. | |
adjudicator. We heard one f`rmer asking for intervention in setting | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
prices, you would have to h`ve a party to the left of Labour to do | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
that. I don't think that is on the agenda. But what is on the `genda is | :57:40. | :57:46. | |
a regime of looking at the way supermarjts `` sewer markets are `` | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
supermarkets are Spiesing the farmers `` ` squeezing the farmers. | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
People are struggling the p`y the price. The margin has actually grown | :57:57. | :57:59. | |
on profit. We have to move on. Now our regular round`up | :58:00. | :58:06. | |
of the political week in thd The father | :58:07. | :58:09. | |
of the Devon schoolgirl Gendtte Tate ` who's been missing for allost 40 | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
years ` has said he welcomes It won't bring closure. People talk | :58:13. | :58:27. | |
about this closure thing. It doesn't happen. You have still got ht in | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
your mind and you still wonder what would have happened. If it Hant have | :58:33. | :58:46. | |
occurred. `` hadn't occurred. Everyone is disappointed. Pdople | :58:47. | :58:53. | |
peel `` people feel bad. Victims of modern day slavery have warned it is | :58:54. | :58:56. | |
a problem in the South West. They look for weak and vulnerabld people | :58:57. | :59:00. | |
so they can manipulate them and get them into debt and once you're in | :59:01. | :59:03. | |
debt they have got you and xou can't, it is a struggle to get out | :59:04. | :59:08. | |
of it. New legislation to t`ckle the problem was unveiled at Wednesday | :59:09. | :59:10. | |
state opening of Parliament. I think the last anti`slavery | :59:11. | :59:24. | |
legislation was in the 19th century. It seems overdue. Yes, we h`d a gang | :59:25. | :59:32. | |
masters act, because of the instances of police talking of | :59:33. | :59:35. | |
problems we had in Cornwall. People don't understand the appallhng | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
conditions in which people live in this country, not over seas, here in | :59:41. | :59:44. | |
Cornwall and Devon and we h`ve got to take action. I fully support any | :59:45. | :59:49. | |
action. I hope it goes far dnough. I think we are all at one on that | :59:50. | :59:54. | |
That is why we have introduced the bill. It is at the behest of Liberal | :59:55. | :00:03. | |
Democrats. A crucial thing, Anthony Steen said it is victim centred and | :00:04. | :00:07. | |
they need to be confident they can give evidence. If you think you re | :00:08. | :00:10. | |
going to be deported if you walk into a police station and s`y you're | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
being kept in appalling conditions, you're not going to walk in. You | :00:15. | :00:18. | |
have to protect the victims. It is good you minuted Anthony he has done | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
great work on this. Thank you. That is the Sunday Politics in | :00:25. | :00:36. | |
Is enough being done to tackle extremism in schools? | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker, will make | :00:41. | :00:49. | |
we are joined by the founder of the Quilliam Association. If you read | :00:50. | :01:11. | |
the Sunday Telegraph this morning, there is a real problem. If you read | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
the Observer, there is not much of a problem. What is the situation in | :01:16. | :01:30. | |
your view in Birmingham? Allegations are seen to be -- if music was not | :01:31. | :01:37. | |
being taught as it should be. Instead of the rating the national | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
holidays here during the Christmas period, children were sent off | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
instead on religious pilgrimage to Mecca, then I think something is | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
going on. From my knowledge, I know about some of the strategies to | :01:52. | :02:00. | |
influence. These strategies are known as gradualism. The idea, like | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is to join the institutions of society | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
and influence from within -- from within. It is a gradual approach to | :02:12. | :02:18. | |
Islamicisation society. We have seen that happening in other areas, such | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
as the decision by the Law Society to call it shy and issue it out as | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
guidance for solicitors. They are saying this means that women inherit | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
half of what men saying this means that women inherit | :02:33. | :02:41. | |
and adopted children do not get any inheritance. Apostates do not get | :02:42. | :02:41. | |
any inheritance. These are guidelines being issued by the Law | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
Society by Islamic. It is a medieval take on Islam. That is what is | :02:47. | :02:53. | |
meant. We see the same names popping up again and again in different | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
situations in Birmingham. Is it a planned infiltration? In my | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
profession of you and planned infiltration? In my | :03:04. | :03:06. | |
profession of you having spent 3 years on the leadership of an | :03:07. | :03:08. | |
Islamist organisation, having been involved | :03:09. | :03:21. | |
Islamist organisation, having been and setting up schools, I am very | :03:22. | :03:21. | |
Islamist organisation, having been certain is a deliberate plan to | :03:22. | :03:22. | |
influence the students of this country with a medieval | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
interpretation of my own faith to bring about a medieval, conservative | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
view, and enforce things like segregation on boys and girls within | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
our public institutions. With these things be acceptable if they were | :03:36. | :03:42. | |
explicitly they schools? If they were state. We had state Anglican | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
faith schools. We have state Catholic faith schools as well. | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
Would it be acceptable if these were state Islamic schools? That is a | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
policy question. I am not generally in favour. I would believe in this | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
establishment. I am not a fan of faith schools. I do think the | :04:04. | :04:11. | |
solution is to ban them. I do think these schools should start working | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
out with an engaging with the wider communities and not being insular | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
and looking inwards. It is very important. The Ofsted report is | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
coming out tomorrow. We have already had a taste about what it is saying | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
about some of the schools. Is it a serious problem? It is a very | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
serious problem. It comes from the segregation of children into | :04:35. | :04:41. | |
intensely populated areas where everyone is Muslim virtually. You | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
have to have a system of spreading children between schools. It very | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
often happens, even with a secular school like this. Nearby Catholic or | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
Church of England schools become like-for-like schools and that | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
leaves the rest of the state schools to become all of one faith. I think | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
all of the parties are being quite hypocritical about the profound | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
problem of continuing to have faith schools. You have Orthodox Jewish | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
schools with extraordinary dogma being taught. Indeed very strict | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
Catholic schools with amazing dogma being taught. To somehow only get | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
worried when it is Islamic, when it is Muslim schools, becomes a | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
problem. You have to look at the whole issue and said the state | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
should simply withdraw from the business of faith education. Like | :05:29. | :05:41. | |
France? Yes, a secular school. The overall government policy is to take | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
power away. The dilemma with that is that it comes with dangers. Some | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
schools will be incompetent and some schools will be more than | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
incompetent, they will be maligned in some respects. The one bit of | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
this policy which has never been entirely squared is how do you | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
devolve and retain a basic minimum of educational standards and | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
behavioural standards while doing it? There is an even deeper quandary | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
for Britain. We have prided ourselves on allowing radical views | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
that stop short of violence. We took on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
would not have him. The rest of Europe could not believe how | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
tolerably well of radical preachers in the 1990s. Do we stick with that | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
view? The risks were greater than they were 100 years ago. We do | :06:30. | :06:37. | |
expect, whatever peoples faith, that our children, at the expense of the | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
taxpayer, are educated, not instructed, not indoctrinated, | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
educated. We do expect that and also that boys and girls are treated | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
equally. One of the things the board in Birmingham will be looking at | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
which has Andrew Mitchell on it the former development Secretary, | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
because he is a Birmingham MP full Sutton, they are really concerned | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
about whether the girls are being treated as second-class citizens. | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
There has been a lot of work done on empowerment of girls. Shirley | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
Williams made the point that what Michael Gove has done by creating | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
free schools and academies is undermined the work of local | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
education authorities. They think they are traditional bodies which | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
are not open to reform. One school in Birmingham which is accused of | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
being in trouble is a local education school. They cannot have | :07:33. | :07:38. | |
the other side. Under Michael Gove, they are answerable to the Secretary | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
of State. It is down to Ofsted. Ofsted is giving the schools, not | :07:43. | :07:48. | |
that long ago, outstanding marks. There are big questions about the | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt was trying to answer that point By | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
tapping it cannot all have gone pear shaped in two years. How do you | :07:56. | :08:03. | |
think that will play out? -- it cannot have gone pear shaped. The | :08:04. | :08:10. | |
story was broken in February. It will keep playing out. The report | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow or Monday. Then there is the other | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
report that will look into wider questions, that will come out in | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
July, I think. We are expecting two points. -- reports. We have to look | :08:23. | :08:32. | |
at questions of Ofsted and other institutions in our society, even | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
government departments, where idea of taxing non-violent extremism | :08:38. | :08:44. | |
became a too boot in this country. -- a taboo. They must be rebuffed | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
the challenge, as we would expect racism to be challenged. In the | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
argument between Michael Gove and Theresa May, where do you side? They | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
should be challenged openly and robust leap by civilian society It | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
was settled by the Prime Minister and is government policy. I had a | :09:06. | :09:15. | |
hand in advising or consulting. I think Fiona Cunningham was forced to | :09:16. | :09:23. | |
resign because what she did violates official government policy. It just | :09:24. | :09:36. | |
has not been implemented yet. Will Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke? | :09:37. | :09:47. | |
You'll agree he have to decide whether he will spirit at stopping | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
him or accepting him as commission president and ask in return for a | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
massive commission portfolio for Britain, something like the internal | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
market, which they missed out on last time. It is a diplomatic | :09:59. | :10:05. | |
decision he have to make. It is too late for that he is into deep. If he | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
takes over the job, Cameron is left with egg on its face. From the | :10:11. | :10:19. | |
beginning, he did not have his voice with the weight of the British | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
Conservative Party, with ankle and Arkle, the rest of them. He is | :10:23. | :10:29. | |
reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest of them. He is reaping that reward. | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
There is a lot of support within Europe. In Germany, there was a lot | :10:37. | :10:43. | |
of opposition to David Cameron getting his way. I know him from | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
Brussels. He is entertaining, you go to dinner with him and he smokes and | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
drinks. He is entertaining but he is the most awful person you could | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
think of having trying to sort of symbolise a new European Union. I | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
remember I was there join the Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
the voters in France and the Netherlands voted no to the European | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
constitution, what was his response to that? Let's carry on with the | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
ratification process of this treaty that has been comprehensively | :11:14. | :11:21. | |
rejected by voters. He did not say the final bit of that sentence. You | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
can see why Eurosceptics want him. He has blown a raspy at all the | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
people who have protested at the elections with the way the European | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry. This is your most popular... What | :11:33. | :11:55. | |
has come in most recently is doing really well. This is yours. There we | :11:56. | :12:07. | |
go. Cheers! By our people so cynical? They always go for a drink | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
at 11am and they pull their own pipes. I see them every day. -- pts. | :12:12. | :12:21. | |
Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is to mark the idea is to define | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
clearly a liberal brand, or at least I hope it is. It is not good enough | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
for us to say the Liberal Democrats challenge the Tories on this, on the | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
fairer society, and challenge the Labour Party on a strong economy. We | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
need to define what we stand for. That is what I call a liberal brand, | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
assertive liberalism. I have been there myself and I think that is | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
what he will be speaking about. Standing up for liberal values, to | :12:49. | :12:56. | |
finding -- defining what they are. Disestablishment in getting younger | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
people re-engage with politics. The overwhelming number are actually | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
liberal. We only have about 20 seconds. I suggest to you it is too | :13:05. | :13:09. | |
late. Sign up with the one principle on which he stood is Europe. -- the | :13:10. | :13:16. | |
one principle on which he stood if Europe. That is why he has been | :13:17. | :13:24. | |
doing so badly. He cannot get out of the hole he is in. If you fight | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
three general elections to the left of Labour and on the third when you | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
are in coalition with the Tories, you have got a problem. I will be | :13:34. | :13:51. | |
back next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. | :13:52. | :14:19. | |
What's the hardest thing about being a foster parent? | :14:20. | :14:21. | |
You're constantly trying to build the elusive trust. | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
It's like a big old question mark in your heart. | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
I just try and do the best I can for them while they're with me | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
Join Lorraine Pascale as she looks at stories of fostering... | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
I wasn't happy at all, but now I am. ..including her own. | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
Nice to know finally where I came to the world. | :14:37. | :14:39. |