08/06/2014 Sunday Politics South West


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David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers


over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.


And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.


We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live


Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?


David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist


But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?


Here's to the quarter of a million votes.


And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with


a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.


Coming up on the Sunday Polhtics in the South West:


Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man?


And with me our panel of top political journalists,


who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee


and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme


This morning's political news is dominated


by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and


The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior


Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling


The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of


investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham


where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken


Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office


was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.


He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.


In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,


"why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people


Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the


An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.


Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's


Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning


this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.


The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.


The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s


put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.


Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she


has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael


Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during


13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an


act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website


and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of


conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a


leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a


vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In


the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.


She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is


interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse


differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is


tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.


Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the


politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is


deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but


replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in


ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that


ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the


Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with


Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick


Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and


criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the


Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is


fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What


separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The


view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic


extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is


criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour


government introduced to do with the previous Labour government


introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people


and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous


home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in


the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has


used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the


swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed


those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove


would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech


the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2 11


when the Prime Minister talked about how extremists


warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system


is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.


Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.


Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of


their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents


in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political


infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the


resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs


to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.


There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for


four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact


that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on


for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much


stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations


like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the


Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the


leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an


overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We


want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate


themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which


makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to


be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted


curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an


education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender


segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender


segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling


Where you have a state education system, which is about gender


equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of


gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be


tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We


do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years


ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like


tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do


think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to


inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to


be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy


sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning


as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of


Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools


were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They


were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an


academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within


Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school


standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we


get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking


to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme


which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and


fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a


desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an


increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr


Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for


gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in


since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We


note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected


head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and


what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about


fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of


schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You


mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence


for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group


dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about


schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in


Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of


multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic


education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this


morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party,


the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation.


In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools


and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed


this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and


this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you


fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get


together to confront this problem for the sake of the children? There


are a number of reports going on in Birmingham. Some are led by the city


council, some by the Department for Education. Labour MPs this morning


have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in


schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have


a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for


four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to


account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils


in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young


people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do


you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that


Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was


building on what Ed said the day after the elections in Berwick. We


have to make sure those communities who we historically represent regard


Labour as having a successful message for them. I am passionate


about making sure we have great vocational and technical education,


the great academic education in our schools. If we have more work to do


to get people to the polling booths, we must do that. We must


with listen to what she says. David Cameron has staked a lot on


stopping the former PM of Luxembourg - named by one newspaper as 'the


most dangerous man in Europe' because of his federalist views -


from becoming the next president Mr Cameron has reportedly described


Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from the 80s who cannot solve the


problems of the next five years . But with the German Chancellor


Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr Juncker, it's not a dead cert that


Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. This is what he had to say at the G7


summit earlier this week: It is important that we have people


running the institutions of Europe who understand the need for change


and reform. I would argue that view is widely shared amongst other heads


of government and heads of state in the European Union. I am clear what


I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed


in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering


that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away


from it would see Britain drift towards the exits.


We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is


a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker.


He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists.


And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin


Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives


and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both.


The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new


Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out


gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to


have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a


high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next


three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the


president of the European Council after the proposal of the European


Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in


the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr


Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going


to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us


one name that you would prefer? The prime Minister of Sweden, Christine


Lagarde, the minister from Lithuania, these are people who have


a record of old reform. Junker is the ultimate Europe insider. We need


radical inform. We need to respond to the message the electorate gave


us in the elections -- radical reform. Junker said he had to lie in


public, he allowed the security services to conduct a dirty tricks


campaign against his opponent. This is not who we want leading the


European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent


a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status


quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?


First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks


against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man


who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro


group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the


financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible


financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who


works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in


Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government But


we need Europe more and he is not a man from the 80s. He is a man of


this century and in this century he made his own policy. He is the


winner of the European elections, he has a majority will stop Mrs


LANguard is not running because she knows she will not get the majority


in the European Parliament. -- Christine Lagarde is not running. It


is the Council of minister is that decides. No, the European Parliament


has the final word. The European Council can make a proposal by


majority in the light of the European elections after


consultation with the European Parliament. The council cannot get a


candidate against the will of the European Parliament. Mr Junker has a


majority in the European Parliament. Theoretically he is right, the


Parliament has do vote on the candidates proposed by the council.


I want to challenge the view that somehow he won the European


elections. There is no provision for Jean Claude Junker to stand in the


elections. He is saying that the EEP party got the most number of seats


in the Parliament but none of the electorate knew they were taking


part in this election. How many people who voted Labour in the


United Kingdom realised that their vote would count towards a German


socialist to be a candidate for the commission of presidency is a


nonsensical proposal. The elections were 28 individual elections with


hundreds of parties across Europe. To try to claim there is a


democratic mandate for somebody nobody has heard from Luxembourg to


take over the commission is a nonsense. People should know him, if


I should say that ironically. Newspapers talking about members of


the family of his wife with Nazi links... What is the answer to


Martin Callinan's point? I think it is clear that British Conservatives


have no candidate because they are not a broad European family, they


have not impacted on the selection of top candidates but it is a form


of isolation of the British Tory Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr


Junker is appointed it could lead to Britain drifting towards the EU


exit, is that credible? Is it melodramatic? It is true that we


want to renegotiate the relationship. We want some serious


reform in Europe so the people who vote in a referendum will be able to


vote to stay in if that is what they want. We need a bold reformer,


somebody prepared to engage. That is not anti the interests of the UK. We


need to recognise there is a problem with public perception of the


European Union. Elmar Brok is proud to be one of the last bastions of


federalism that that is not where most of the public opinion is in


Europe. I understand why he wants his man installed but we need to


take into account the message of the letter -- the electorate. 25% of the


publishing of France were prepared to vote for an openly racist party.


We can't just ignore the signal that the electorate were sending us. If


enthusiasm for federalism was at an all-time low, it would be a slap in


the face for the voters of Europe to have a federalist as the president,


would it not? 70, 80% of the members of the European Parliament, selected


by their people, are pro-Europeans. These are the winners of the


European elections. Even in France, a majority of voters have voted


pro-European and that should be clear, not to make this a populist


thing which is not only to do with Europe. And we want to have a Europe


which is strong, the member states should do their things. We do not


want to have a European centralism, we do not want a European state


This is not at stake. Let's talk about the question of better


governance, let's talk about what was wrong in the past, we have to


become better, to change our programme in that question. That


should be the way we lead to come to positive results. Thank you for


that. Before we go, there is a British commissioner that needs to


be appointed to Brussels, do you like the sound of that? These are


matters for the Prime Minister, I am sure he has many excellent


candidates. Do you like the sound of it? Like previous British


commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil clinic, I have just lost an election


-- Neil Kinnock for the everybody who is asked would serve, I'm sure.


Just days ago UKIP were celebrating topping the poll in the European


They're claiming they'd have had two more MEPs


and the Greens two fewer had another party not confused the electorate.


What's more UKIP say it's the fault of the body


which was set up to oversee elections - the Electoral Commission


This is a party celebrating success at the European elections. They


didn't win a single MEP but nationally polled 250,000 votes


They are an independence from Europe, mostly people who were once


in UKIP, and that is rather the point. They may look like capers,


in UKIP, and that is rather the drink like capers, sound like capers


-- -- sound like kippers, but they are not. The name and the logo were


displayed on this banner when the party launched its campaign. UKIP


suggest the look, the wording and the inclusion of UK in now confused


voters, and are looking at rewriting such a wrong. The way that seats are


allocated in a European election under a proportional representation


system is using this formula. It was invented by a Belgian mathematician


in 1878 and it is essentially this. When all of the votes have been


tallied up, the one with the most seats gets the first MEPC in a


region. The others are allocated using votes cast divided by the


number of seats gained plus one -- first MEP seat in a region. UKIP


were concerned with South West and London. There they say, when the


last MEP seats were being allocated, if everyone who had voted for an


independence from Europe had meant to vote for UKIP and you tallied


their votes up, and added them to UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in


each region and the greens would have lost them. Whether you can


prove that voters did that by mistake is a very different matter.


UKIP may have to just chalk it up to experience. It has happened before,


back in the European elections of 1994. Then in England under the


first past the post system. This man, Richard Huggett, decided to


stand as a little Democrat and polled a significant number of


votes. The Liberal Democrat candidate at the time is now an MP.


Many people voted and afterwards realised that they had bubbly voted


for -- probably voted for a little Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as


they had been intending to do - bubbly voted for a literal Democrat


-- probably voted. Mr Sanders got some consolation In


1998, laws came into rule on so-called spoiler tactics and the


Electoral Commission was established. The Electoral


Commission are based on the seventh floor of this building and they did


look into this issue prior to voting. They have given us a


statement that reveals the conclusion they came to, part of


which says, we decided that the name of the party, and its description


are sufficiently different to those registered by the UK Independence


Party, UKIP, to mean, in our opinion, that voters were not likely


to be confused if they appeared on the same ballot paper. Pretty


conclusive stuff. Back at the pub, were an independence from Europe


just being crafty, or do UKIP need to wake up and smell the flowers? We


attack them in all areas. An independent study for Anglo


Netherlands because I was involved in the Dutch -- with the Dutch


member of Parliament and the description was UK Independence now,


nobody has a monopoly on the word independence. I have been fighting


for independence since I started in 1994, before I joined UKIP. The


party tell me they will stand again at the general election next year.


The ironies not lost on them or the major parties of UKIP complaining


that a smaller party has been taking votes of them.


Joining me now to discuss this story is Gawain Towler.


He's the UKIP candidate for the South West region, who failed to get


And in our Bristol studios is the victorious Green MEP for


How many of the 23,000 votes that were cast for the Independence party


were meant for you? Impossible to tell. I want to congratulate Molly


for getting elected. They are the breaks. I do not think there is a


purpose in complaining about boats that are cast. Do you think you


would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. You have to look at the


would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. You have to look boats for parties


people have not heard of and those with a long tradition that people


have heard of. I do not think there is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled


ballot papers, the amount of people who had voted at the top and the


bottom, most people are not anoraks, they say, they are the people I


want. They know what they are after. I think it is at least told. It is


said you owe your seat to And Independence Party. It is strange


for a man to say he could represent people in the south-west better than


me. There has been outpouring of delight that a Green MP has finally


been elected. A number of people have been saying they have been


voting all their lives and it is the first time they have elected


anybody. I am glad to represent them in a significant legislature. What


would you say to that? I find it strange. I am perfectly happy for


her to be elected. I feel the electoral commission has questions


to answer. But, congratulations to Molly. Why do you want an extra seat


for the Greens in the European Parliament but your national share


of the vote actually fell. We did come under pressure nationally. If


he is complaining about the role the election commission said we could


stand, the rule we were not happy with was the off, ruling which said


we were not a main party. We got significantly less media time and


that is why our belt actually fell. Not on the Daily Politics or the


Sunday Politics, where you were well represented. Was it a problem for


UKIP in other parts of the country? Only in London. What do you think


happened there? Very much the same. I do not think there is any doubt,


the number of people we have had getting in touch saying, I am really


sorry, I made a mess, that they voted for the wrong party. They are


the breaks. Politics is politics. What I would like to see and what is


reasonable, and I hope Molly would agree, there needs to be a reform -


a serious reform of the Electoral Commission. There is no appeal


process. They say it is not confusing. Lets see if she thinks


that. I make it a policy never to agree with UKIP. What is important


to note, if you look at the votes and the way the votes fell out and


the seats fell out in the south-west, it is difficult for an


Electoral Commission to turn boats into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote


and 33% of the seats. For them, the system worked very well in the


south-west. Nationally, Greens did not get represented as the vote


share would require. That is because you get very small number of seats


in the different regions and you have to reach a high threshold. The


Green Party has a right to complain about the level of seats we have


ended up with. White rapper you have complaints about the Electoral


Commission? We need to move to a proportional system for elections


generally. If we poll around 7% 8%, we should be looking at having 0,


40 seats in the national legislature. We need to consider


proportional representation for national elections. Do you accept


the ballot paper may have confused some people? I think what happened


is that some people in UKIP were very worried. Worried about the


rightward move of UKIP and the authoritarian leadership of Nigel


Farage. He set up a separate party. That is what happens in politics,


particularly when parties are led by demagogues and are not focused on


Democratic policy. Do you have any legal redress to this? None


whatsoever. Have you had legal advice? I am told there is no


redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly does not agree with UKIP on anything


so, if we say the sun rises in the morning, she probably will disagree


with that. If, at the next election, there is a party called the Grown


Party, will she then complain? There needs to be some level of


accountability and, without that, one wonders what is going on. We


have an organisation with enormous and important power and influence


which is setup to stop this of thing going on. It has failed. Not has it


has failed. Not present served in Tower Hamlets and there have been


massive problems with postal votes. It is failing on almost everything


it is supposed to do. Just to go back for a final point from Molly.


Should there be a right of appeal to the rulings of the Electoral


Commission? You need to have an authoritative body that makes


decisions in this area and we have the Electoral Commission. It is


about being sore losers on the part of UKIP. I am delighted to represent


people in the South West. Should there be a right of appeal or not?


You need an authoritative body and the Electoral Commission is that. I


do not think it should have a right to appeal.


We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now


Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be discussing extremism


Coming up on the Sunday Polhtics in the South West:


The price of beef and a warning regions like ours could fall behind


Transport links outside London are on the agenda.


The South West has been described as chronically underfunded.


And for the next 20 minutes, I'm joined by two former MPs but


still very much active politicians ` the Lib Dem peer John Burnett and


I want that talk about the broader political picture, John, we have had


a catastrophic result for the Liberal Democrats in the Newark


by`election and a grim result in the Europe... I'm glad you can laugh!


Hang on a minute! In the European elections. What is your rechpe to


try to pull the party up ag`in? Let's try, without wanting to be too


controversial so early in the programme, I do understand ht hasn't


been a brilliant three or four months. Bad European elections, bad


local elections on the same day and Newark was not good. You just


managed to beat the loony c`ndidate, Nick The Flying Brick. With Newark,


we had easterly last year and rather inauspicious circumstances, similar


circumstances for the Conservatives, two MPs, sitting MPs, resigning in


disgrace I think one would have to say. And we won in easterly and the


Conservatives won last night. But that was then, this is now. We are a


year from a general election. The point is a good point, I'm saying


the electorate are sophisticated and they look at by`election and they


decide which is the candidate who is most likely to win. It is what I


call a by`election squeeze. We were like live to win, UKIP were second


and so it was a choice betwden the liberals and UKIP. Yet it w`s a


choice between the Conservatives, UKIP and in both circumstances the


sitting candidates' party prevailed. We take some, where we have sitting


MPs, I think we are... We are in a better position than a lot of people


say. We have one now ex`Libdral Democrat peer, Lord Oakeshott who


had firm views on a change of direction and leader for thd party,


do you have any advice for the party as a whole, for the leader? My


advice is to stick with the coalition. Not to break the bonds we


have made. Not to break the decision we have made. Stick with it to the


end. And I think there will be differences, which will comd to


light. As they have done in the past. But stick with it. It is the


country, will reward us. I'l conVinced of that on general


election evening. Because wd were in a catastrophicically bad situation


as a country and we put our party differences to one side for the good


of country. It looks as if Conservative voters are ple`sed with


their party and the people who are pleased with you, say they have


propped up the Conservatives and nodded through a lot of polhcies we


can't stand. Well, there have been a lot of policies that we havd put


forward. Raising... You're not getting any credit for it. Ht is


good of you to imply we havd done some good Liberal Democrat things.


On the ground, John, the Liberal Democrats are a busted flush. The


electorate for the first tile had a chance to look at you and they don't


like what they have seen. I think they believe and they will believe


on a general election day that we have done something for the


country's good. Not for our narrow political ends and we will get


credit for that. I just don't accept that. I think the people have seen


and they haven't liked. I don't think it is going to come b`ck in


any way. I think you are in for a grim night next May. As are the


Conservatives, because people don't like that. When it comes to a choice


between UKIP and the Conservatives, moat would rather go with the


Conservatives. Things are not going brilliantly for Labour. At this


point, we're a year from a general election, you should be doing


better. New ark demographics meant we were not in a strong poshtion.


The media, it has just made it a Conservative/UKIP race and people


don't think that if the othdr parties have a chance. Candx, don't


blame the media, you're showing an Achilles heel there. You have to


look at yourself. Of course. If we look at elections in the Sotth West


and in Plymouth, a city that either controlled by the Conservathves or


by Labour, you have just held on to control, losing seats to UKHP. We


lost one or two. Three. All right three. I'm not in that partx. It is


generally head`to`head and xou should be doing well. We ard doing


much better than people are giving us credit for in local crithcal


elections UKIP won 149 seats we won 1,500, taking the key seats we need


to win. Yes, we are going to have to work harder in Plymouth. But I think


Luke and Pollard and others will win and we will have more Labour MPs in


the South West come May and we are in a different position to the


Liberal Democrats. Are you happy with Ed Milliband? Yes, I stpported


Ed Milliband. I don't believe you should be electing your polhticians


on whether you think they'rd slightly not photo generalic. ``


photo genic. Would Winston Churchill have won? No, we need polithcians


that will engage on the isste who have bright minds and will lead our


country. I think that when the country gets to know Ed Milliband


they will like what they sed. Maybe he is just not smoking a Sigg ah?


Maybe not.//`` cigar. This week a cross`party grotp of MPs


called on the Government to tackle the chronic underfunding


of transport outside London. The Transport Select Committee also


says it's concerned that ch`nges to the way regions bid


for infrastructure money cotld see areas like the South West f`lling


even further behind. When you're a business


which needs to get goods to clients, Particularly if,


like this Cornish lighting firm 99% Customers will not buy from someone


they don't think will delivdr the goods on time all of the tile. Price


doesn't come into it. If yot can't deliver the goods, it will be China.


This week MPs on the Transport Select Committee said


the underfunding of transport projects in the regions when


The latest available Governlent figures show spending per hdad in


the South West is the lowest in the whole of the country at ?184 a head,


For the lighting company, it's improvements to the A30 and the


Just a few miles from Peter's factory is this notorious bottleneck


The traffic might be flowing freely today, but in the sulmer


months queues can sometimes stretch up to nine miles long.


The Government's given ?30 lillion to widen it,


but Cornwall Council's still finding the funds to match this.


With the impact of this year's storms on thd


region's rail links still top of people's minds, the MPs report also


warns a new funding system from next year might not make things fairer.


The bodies responsible for driving economic growth ` Local Entdrprise


Partnerships ` will be compdting for money from a central pot.


There are well resourced LEPs and less well resourced. The better


resource rd more likely to do better. The interests of Devon and


Cornwall are almost identic`l for transport. But they're two separate


LEPs. If they were one, thex would have twice the resource in order to


compete with other parts of the country.


But others argue there is already a joint approach


on all major transport topics like the A303 or rail links.


And there's a determination not to be shdelined


The system where you have competition means your fighting


agains people who can probably put up a bigger case. But the


alternative of allocation works against somewhere like Cornwall with


a small population. Neither of the alternatives are perfect. So I think


the only answer is to actually just ensure you argue your case very


strongly. As well as A30, there has been Government cash wards various


projects. But the select colmittee said funding for no area should


continue to be second class. And ministers now have two months to


respond. Transport links are a thing which


the South West feels hard done by and the Conservatives and the


Liberal Democrat are saying this is because we have a Labour government


and not many MP ands they'rd not interested in us. If these LPs are


like `` right we are looking at situation where that could get


worse? The commons had a good debate about this and certain commhtments


were made by the Government minister. That was two or three


months ago. I will hope, I hope to have a debate in the House of Lords


on this before the Christmas recess. The point is there has been


considerable neglect of the South West for decades. We need bdtter


transport, we need fairer ftnding for schools and fairer fundhng for


the police for that matter. Now on transport, in my view we have a case


that is unanswerable. You absolutely, it is most perstasive,


roads, rail and air actuallx, you missed the air side, becausd


Plymouth has lost its airport. It is important. I believe in competition.


I believe in free markets. But you must allow competition to rtn fairly


and it has not opinion fair for decades for us in the South West.


Because we don't have the infrastructure to help our


businesses and our enterprises and there is you know, we inherhted I


won't go on too much about ht, but a par louse economic situation. So we


haven't been able to be libdral with money. In the next Parliament we


have done our house keeping and kept expenditure down. Let's hopd, let's


pray we get more funding, ddcent roads and rail Wau and maybd a rail


link between through Okehampton and Tavistock. If we have a Labour


Government will we have to hope and pray? Don't think. There has been


praying and not much hope whth this government. You have had yotr turn.


A Labour Government will devolve money. What worries me about the


proposals is the private sector will bid. We know that the one place


where there is loads of mondy is London and that is where thdy will


be attracted to go. I saw your figures. But I have seen figures


that say we get ?18 a head `s opposed to over 2,000 in London The


result is that we are not gdtting our fair share. If you devolve money


to the region, that is ring fenced for the region. I think loc`l


authorities and the Governmdnt can work together rather than this idea


that the private sector will come rung along and put loads of money


into Devon and Cornwall. It is not going to happen. A Labour mhnister


from the South West pupped the plug on the 8. 30. And Liberal Ddmocrats


stopped the dualing of A30. You had a regional structure with more


public money and none of thd things were achieved when you were in


government. Dualing of the trains and the A30, which people s`id it


would never happen and it dhd. And people actually were amazed that


happened. That dualing was critical and it has helped amazingly. Look at


the small branch lines in Cornwall, held up nationally as a gre`t


example, funded through European and government money. You and I will


agree on this, successive governments have let down the South


West. But we haven't had thd money. Next time just give us a ch`nce It


is true that the, both you `nd the Conservatives are against rdgional


structures and we have many LEPs and the old government region is


geographically identical with the big transport schemes, becatse the


rail is fine beyond Wiltshire. Isn't there an argument for doing it on a


regional basis? Not so much to us. But it is to the Conservatives. I no


ethat. And all I can say is that the politicians of Devon and Cornwall


should peek `` speak with one voice. They're beginning to. The ddbate


showed a coherence between `ll three parties that something must be done.


We have been left out for f`r too long. Decades of neglect. I would


agree and we need to do that. In Cornwall, many of us are saxing very


many things about what Cornwall needs to solve many of its own


problems. But this bidding for the private sector is not going to help


anyone and not going to help the South West. OK K


Farmers in the region say they're on the brink of protest acthon


as the price they're paid for beef continues to spiral downwards.


Some are now getting as much as ?500 less for each animal than


Anna Varle has been finding out more.


This time last year organic cattle like these were making


I can't without making profht. The cattle are in jeopardy if things


don't improve. But it is thd cattle that make this countryside. If you


look around, this beautiful part of the country. Without cattle grazing


it. It wouldn't be. The English Beef and Lamb Executive


says there are two main reasons Firstly,


consumers are buying less bdcause of And, secondly, there's


a lot more beef being imported And it's got to


the stage where farmers are considering taking action


if no agreement can be reached Kuze uz We are close to getting


action. We have a meeting whth the retailer. But we need something to


happen quickly. Farmers are in a dire strait and producing bdef at a


loss. It is not sustainable. We need to know where the retailers need to


source this meat from. If they don't want us, tell us. We will h`ve to


change our farming activitids, but people are desperate.


We need to take action. We can't sustain the way things are. Between


us we have got to try and work together with all these othdr group


and see what we can do for the industry. I think the Government


should intervene in the beef price. Because we have got the best welfare


standards there are in the world and we are being undermined by cheap


meat coming in. At the moment we are being really hammered. It is going


to be survival of the fittest I think. But is it time for the


Government to intervene? We are doing stuff to support the hndustry,


but we can't dictate prices. We want to support the industry and see a


thriving sector. There is the demand for the product. It is making sure


that that price gets through to the farm gate. The British Retahl


Consortium says they're payhng beef farm terse best price and not


responsible for this fall. Ht says that supermarkets continue to


support British beef and th`t the majority of beef sold is sthll


produced in this country. It is hoped talks between retailers and


farmers will avert any future action. It is well known th`t John


is a former marine and also a former cattle farmer. Cattle and corn and I


loved my farming and I love to see the Devon there too. But thhs is a


serious point. It concerns le. There have always been fluctuations in


brief prices and there is competition and markets. Obviously,


the pound is strong and there is confidence in sterling. That affects


the price. Because it makes it cheaper to import. What has


concerned me is the problem with milk as well, there is a suspicion


those of us who have been ehther in agriculture or involved in


agriculture, that I won't use the world collusion, but the


supermarkets seem to have a way not a rigging of the market, but making


sure they get a good deal from the farmerment That is a free m`rket


isn't it? It not a free market if they collude. I don't know whether


they are or not. But I suspdct that it won't be long before an


application is made to to grocery adjudicator to look at this to make


sure the market is working properly. Which the Government has just set


up. They set it up a year ago if you look on the web`site the supermarket


Tzar as they're called, doesn't appear to have done anything. Maybe


we will give him a job to do now. All the MPs in the South West and


people such as myself, we should be getting on the phone, writing the


letters, banging in the e`m`ils and saying get out there and do some


work. Somebody will have to take on the supermarkets. If it isn't the


supermarket Tzar s I don't know where we will go. We will end up


without a cattle industry. That would be a disaster. Just when maybe


there is a window with the Chinese opening up opportunities in the long


early`morning term which cotld give a new market to our farmers. We are


already exporting and doing well. We have got over the crisis of foot and


mouth and BSE. Our beef is luch sought after. But I believe now that


it is getting, farmers are feeling the pinch. Cattle farm tersd. It is


big business in the South Wdst. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next


week or so an application is meat to the ` made to the grocery


adjudicator. We heard one f`rmer asking for intervention in setting


prices, you would have to h`ve a party to the left of Labour to do


that. I don't think that is on the agenda. But what is on the `genda is


a regime of looking at the way supermarjts `` sewer markets are ``


supermarkets are Spiesing the farmers `` ` squeezing the farmers.


People are struggling the p`y the price. The margin has actually grown


on profit. We have to move on. Now our regular round`up


of the political week in thd The father


of the Devon schoolgirl Gendtte Tate ` who's been missing for allost 40


years ` has said he welcomes It won't bring closure. People talk


about this closure thing. It doesn't happen. You have still got ht in


your mind and you still wonder what would have happened. If it Hant have


occurred. `` hadn't occurred. Everyone is disappointed. Pdople


peel `` people feel bad. Victims of modern day slavery have warned it is


a problem in the South West. They look for weak and vulnerabld people


so they can manipulate them and get them into debt and once you're in


debt they have got you and xou can't, it is a struggle to get out


of it. New legislation to t`ckle the problem was unveiled at Wednesday


state opening of Parliament. I think the last anti`slavery


legislation was in the 19th century. It seems overdue. Yes, we h`d a gang


masters act, because of the instances of police talking of


problems we had in Cornwall. People don't understand the appallhng


conditions in which people live in this country, not over seas, here in


Cornwall and Devon and we h`ve got to take action. I fully support any


action. I hope it goes far dnough. I think we are all at one on that


That is why we have introduced the bill. It is at the behest of Liberal


Democrats. A crucial thing, Anthony Steen said it is victim centred and


they need to be confident they can give evidence. If you think you re


going to be deported if you walk into a police station and s`y you're


being kept in appalling conditions, you're not going to walk in. You


have to protect the victims. It is good you minuted Anthony he has done


great work on this. Thank you. That is the Sunday Politics in


Is enough being done to tackle extremism in schools?


Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker, will make


we are joined by the founder of the Quilliam Association. If you read


the Sunday Telegraph this morning, there is a real problem. If you read


the Observer, there is not much of a problem. What is the situation in


your view in Birmingham? Allegations are seen to be -- if music was not


being taught as it should be. Instead of the rating the national


holidays here during the Christmas period, children were sent off


instead on religious pilgrimage to Mecca, then I think something is


going on. From my knowledge, I know about some of the strategies to


influence. These strategies are known as gradualism. The idea, like


the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is to join the institutions of society


and influence from within -- from within. It is a gradual approach to


Islamicisation society. We have seen that happening in other areas, such


as the decision by the Law Society to call it shy and issue it out as


guidance for solicitors. They are saying this means that women inherit


half of what men saying this means that women inherit


and adopted children do not get any inheritance. Apostates do not get


any inheritance. These are guidelines being issued by the Law


Society by Islamic. It is a medieval take on Islam. That is what is


meant. We see the same names popping up again and again in different


situations in Birmingham. Is it a planned infiltration? In my


profession of you and planned infiltration? In my


profession of you having spent 3 years on the leadership of an


Islamist organisation, having been involved


Islamist organisation, having been and setting up schools, I am very


Islamist organisation, having been certain is a deliberate plan to


influence the students of this country with a medieval


interpretation of my own faith to bring about a medieval, conservative


view, and enforce things like segregation on boys and girls within


our public institutions. With these things be acceptable if they were


explicitly they schools? If they were state. We had state Anglican


faith schools. We have state Catholic faith schools as well.


Would it be acceptable if these were state Islamic schools? That is a


policy question. I am not generally in favour. I would believe in this


establishment. I am not a fan of faith schools. I do think the


solution is to ban them. I do think these schools should start working


out with an engaging with the wider communities and not being insular


and looking inwards. It is very important. The Ofsted report is


coming out tomorrow. We have already had a taste about what it is saying


about some of the schools. Is it a serious problem? It is a very


serious problem. It comes from the segregation of children into


intensely populated areas where everyone is Muslim virtually. You


have to have a system of spreading children between schools. It very


often happens, even with a secular school like this. Nearby Catholic or


Church of England schools become like-for-like schools and that


leaves the rest of the state schools to become all of one faith. I think


all of the parties are being quite hypocritical about the profound


problem of continuing to have faith schools. You have Orthodox Jewish


schools with extraordinary dogma being taught. Indeed very strict


Catholic schools with amazing dogma being taught. To somehow only get


worried when it is Islamic, when it is Muslim schools, becomes a


problem. You have to look at the whole issue and said the state


should simply withdraw from the business of faith education. Like


France? Yes, a secular school. The overall government policy is to take


power away. The dilemma with that is that it comes with dangers. Some


schools will be incompetent and some schools will be more than


incompetent, they will be maligned in some respects. The one bit of


this policy which has never been entirely squared is how do you


devolve and retain a basic minimum of educational standards and


behavioural standards while doing it? There is an even deeper quandary


for Britain. We have prided ourselves on allowing radical views


that stop short of violence. We took on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe


would not have him. The rest of Europe could not believe how


tolerably well of radical preachers in the 1990s. Do we stick with that


view? The risks were greater than they were 100 years ago. We do


expect, whatever peoples faith, that our children, at the expense of the


taxpayer, are educated, not instructed, not indoctrinated,


educated. We do expect that and also that boys and girls are treated


equally. One of the things the board in Birmingham will be looking at


which has Andrew Mitchell on it the former development Secretary,


because he is a Birmingham MP full Sutton, they are really concerned


about whether the girls are being treated as second-class citizens.


There has been a lot of work done on empowerment of girls. Shirley


Williams made the point that what Michael Gove has done by creating


free schools and academies is undermined the work of local


education authorities. They think they are traditional bodies which


are not open to reform. One school in Birmingham which is accused of


being in trouble is a local education school. They cannot have


the other side. Under Michael Gove, they are answerable to the Secretary


of State. It is down to Ofsted. Ofsted is giving the schools, not


that long ago, outstanding marks. There are big questions about the


oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt was trying to answer that point By


tapping it cannot all have gone pear shaped in two years. How do you


think that will play out? -- it cannot have gone pear shaped. The


story was broken in February. It will keep playing out. The report


that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow or Monday. Then there is the other


report that will look into wider questions, that will come out in


July, I think. We are expecting two points. -- reports. We have to look


at questions of Ofsted and other institutions in our society, even


government departments, where idea of taxing non-violent extremism


became a too boot in this country. -- a taboo. They must be rebuffed


the challenge, as we would expect racism to be challenged. In the


argument between Michael Gove and Theresa May, where do you side? They


should be challenged openly and robust leap by civilian society It


was settled by the Prime Minister and is government policy. I had a


hand in advising or consulting. I think Fiona Cunningham was forced to


resign because what she did violates official government policy. It just


has not been implemented yet. Will Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke?


You'll agree he have to decide whether he will spirit at stopping


him or accepting him as commission president and ask in return for a


massive commission portfolio for Britain, something like the internal


market, which they missed out on last time. It is a diplomatic


decision he have to make. It is too late for that he is into deep. If he


takes over the job, Cameron is left with egg on its face. From the


beginning, he did not have his voice with the weight of the British


Conservative Party, with ankle and Arkle, the rest of them. He is


reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest of them. He is reaping that reward.


There is a lot of support within Europe. In Germany, there was a lot


of opposition to David Cameron getting his way. I know him from


Brussels. He is entertaining, you go to dinner with him and he smokes and


drinks. He is entertaining but he is the most awful person you could


think of having trying to sort of symbolise a new European Union. I


remember I was there join the Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when


the voters in France and the Netherlands voted no to the European


constitution, what was his response to that? Let's carry on with the


ratification process of this treaty that has been comprehensively


rejected by voters. He did not say the final bit of that sentence. You


can see why Eurosceptics want him. He has blown a raspy at all the


people who have protested at the elections with the way the European


Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry. This is your most popular... What


has come in most recently is doing really well. This is yours. There we


go. Cheers! By our people so cynical? They always go for a drink


at 11am and they pull their own pipes. I see them every day. -- pts.


Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is to mark the idea is to define


clearly a liberal brand, or at least I hope it is. It is not good enough


for us to say the Liberal Democrats challenge the Tories on this, on the


fairer society, and challenge the Labour Party on a strong economy. We


need to define what we stand for. That is what I call a liberal brand,


assertive liberalism. I have been there myself and I think that is


what he will be speaking about. Standing up for liberal values, to


finding -- defining what they are. Disestablishment in getting younger


people re-engage with politics. The overwhelming number are actually


liberal. We only have about 20 seconds. I suggest to you it is too


late. Sign up with the one principle on which he stood is Europe. -- the


one principle on which he stood if Europe. That is why he has been


doing so badly. He cannot get out of the hole he is in. If you fight


three general elections to the left of Labour and on the third when you


are in coalition with the Tories, you have got a problem. I will be


back next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.


What's the hardest thing about being a foster parent?


You're constantly trying to build the elusive trust.


It's like a big old question mark in your heart.


I just try and do the best I can for them while they're with me


Join Lorraine Pascale as she looks at stories of fostering...


I wasn't happy at all, but now I am. ..including her own.


Nice to know finally where I came to the world.


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