29/06/2014 Sunday Politics South West


29/06/2014

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No surprise that Mr Cameron didn't get his way at the European summit.

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But does it mean Britain has just moved closer to the EU exit?

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Doctors want to ban smoking outright.

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A sensible health measure or the health lobby's secret plan all

:01:09.:01:10.

In the south`west, as GP pr`ctices in the region struggle to fhll

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vacancies, are And with me, as always,

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the best and the brightest political panel in the business Nick Watt

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Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. They've had their usual cognac,

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or Juncker as it's known in Luxembourg, for breakfast and will

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be tweeting under the influence He's a boozing, chain-smoking,

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millionaire bon viveur who's made it big in the world of European

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politic. I speak of Jean-Claude Juncker, the

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former Prime Minister of Luxembourg He'll soon be President

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of the European Commission, He wasn't David Cameron's choice

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of course. But those the PM thought were his

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allies deserted him and he ended up on the wrong end of a 26-2 vote in

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favour of Arch-Fedrealist Juncker. -- on the wrong end of a 26-2 vote

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in favour of Arch-Federalist So where does this leave

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Mr Cameron's hopes of major reform and repatriation

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of EU powers back to the UK? Let's speak to his

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Europe Minister David Lidington Welcome to the programme. The Prime

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Minister says that now with Mr Juncker at the helm, the battle to

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keep Britain in the EU has got harder. In what way has it got

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harder? For two reasons. The majority of the leaders have

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accepted the process that shifts power, it will not careful, from the

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elected heads of government right cross Europe to the party bosses,

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the faction leaders in the European Parliament and and the disaffection

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was made clear in many European countries. Mr Juncker had a

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distinguished period as head of Luxembourg, and was not a known

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reformer, but we have to judge on how he leads the commission and

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there were some elements in the mandate that the heads of government

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gave this week to the new incoming European Commission that I think are

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cautiously encouraging for us. The Prime Minister talked about those

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that not everybody wants to integrate and to the same extent and

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speed. Let me just interrupt you. What is new about saying that Europe

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can go closer to closer union at different speeds? That has always

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been the case. It's nothing new Indeed there are precedents, and

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they are good examples of the approach as part of the course and

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one of the elements that the Prime Minister is taking forward in the

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strategy is to get general acceptance that while we agree that

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most of the partners have agreed to the single currency will want to

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press forward with closer integration of their economic and

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tax policies, but not every country in the EU is going to want to do

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that. We have to see the pattern that has grown up enough to

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recognise there is a diverse EU with 28 member states and more in the

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future. We won't all integrate the extent. It is a matter of a pattern

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that is differentiation and integration. I understand that. John

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Major used to call it variable geometry, and other phrases nobody

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used to understand, but the point is that you're back benches don't want

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any union at any speed, even in the slow lane. They want to go in the

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other direction. It depends which backbencher you talk to. There's a

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diverse range of views. I think that there is acceptance that the core of

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the Prime Minister's approaches to seek reform of the European Union,

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for renegotiation after the election, then put it to the British

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people to decide. It won't be the British government or ministers that

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take the final decision, it's the British people, provided they are a

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Conservative government, who will take the decision on the basis of

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the reforms that David Cameron secures whether they want to stay in

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or not. Is there more of a chance, not a certainty or probability, but

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at least more of a chance that with Mr Juncker in that position of

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Britain leaving the EU? I don't think we can say that at the moment.

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I think we can say that the task of reform looks harder than it did a

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couple of weeks ago. But we have do put Mr Juncker to the test. I do

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think he would want his commission to be marked and I think that there

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is, and I find this in numbers around Europe, and there is a

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growing recognition that things cannot go on as they have been.

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Europe, economically, is in danger of losing a lot of ground will stop

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millions of youngsters are out of work already that reform. There is

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real anxiety and a number of countries now about the extent to

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which opinion polls and election results are showing a shift of

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support to both left and right wing parties, sometimes outright

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neofascist movements, expressing real content and resentment at

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Howard in touch -- how out of touch decisions have become. You say you

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are sensing anxiety about the condition of Europe, so why did they

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choose Mr Juncker then? You would have to put that question to some of

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the heads of European government. Clearly there were a number for whom

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domestic politics played a big role in the eventual decision that they

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took. There were some who had signed up to the lead candidate process and

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felt they could not back away from that, whatever their private

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feelings might have been, but I think the PM was right to say that

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this was a matter of principle and it shouldn't just be left as a

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stitch up by the European Parliament to tell us what they do. He said, I

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can't agree to pretend to acquiesce. They have to make the opposition

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clear that go on with reform. Are the current terms of membership for

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us unacceptable? The current terms of the membership are very far from

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perfect. Are they unacceptable? The current terms are certainly not ones

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that I feel comfortable with. The Prime Minister described them as

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unacceptable. Do you think they are? We look at the views of the British

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people at the moment. If you look at the polling at the moment, the

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evidence is that people are split on whether they think membership is a

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good thing. I'm asking what you think. David Cameron wants to in --

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endorse changes in our interest but also because the biggest market is

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going to suffer if they don't challenge -- grasp the challenge of

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political and economic reform. Newsnight, Friday night, Malcolm

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Rifkind the former Secretary of State said to me that even if the

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choice was to stay in on the existing terms, he would vote to

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stay in on the existing terms. He doesn't necessarily like them, but

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he would vote to stay in. That is the authentic voice of the Foreign

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Office, isn't it? That is the position of your department. Is it

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your position? Malcolm Rifkind is a distinguished and independent minded

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backbencher. He's not in government now. But that is your position. No,

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the position of the government and the Conservative Party in the

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government is that we believe that important changes, both economic and

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political reforms, are necessary and that they are attainable in our

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interest and those of Europe as a whole. Would you vote to stay in on

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the existing terms? That's not going to be a question that the

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referendum. Really? I know that in 2017 Europe is going to look rather

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different to how it looks today For one thing our colleagues in the

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Eurozone will want and need to press ahead with closer integration.

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That, in our view, needs to be done in a way that fully respects the

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rights of those of us who remain outside. Variable geometry, tackling

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things like the abuse of freedom of migration. Those are all in the

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conclusions from the leader this week and we should welcome that

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Very briefly, finally, when will you, as a government, give us the

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negotiating position of the government? Will you give us what

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you hope to achieve before the election or not? David Cameron set

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out very clearly in his Bloomberg speech that he wanted a Europe that

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was more democratically accountable, more flexible, more at it --

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economically competitive. That is all very general. When will you lay

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out the negotiating position? It's not general. It is very far from

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general. We have seen evidence in the successful cut of the European

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budget, the reform of fisheries those reforms have started to take

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effect. We have won some victories and I'm sure the Prime Minister as

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we get towards the general election, will want to make clear what the

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Conservative Party position is, and perhaps other political leaders will

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do the same for their party. Thank you for joining us this morning The

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harsh reality of this is that there is a yawning gap between what the

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Prime Minister can hope to bring back and what will satisfy his

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Conservative backbenchers. Yes, I think the Parliamentary Conservative

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Party is divided into three parts, those who would vote to leave the EU

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regardless, those who would stay regardless, and a huge middle ground

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of people who want to stay in on renegotiated terms. These are not

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three equal parts. Those who would vote to stay in regardless are

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smaller and smaller. Compared to 20 years ago, tiny. But the people in

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the middle, generally, would only stay in if you secure a

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renegotiation that will not be re-secured. In other words, they are

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de facto, out by 2017 and the referendum. This whole saga of the

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recent weeks has been the single biggest economy in foreign policy

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under this government. That's not what the voters think. -- single

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biggest ignominy. I mean the failure to secure the target. The opinion

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polls show that standing up against Mr Juncker has proved rather

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popular. I suggest that is not Mr Cameron's problem. His problem is

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that, if in the end he gets only because Medic changes, and if he

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says he still thinks that with these changes -- cosmetic changes. And he

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says that they should stay in, that would split the Tory party wide

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open. Eurosceptics say would be the biggest split since the corn laws.

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He wants to protect the position of coming out, and you might get that.

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He wants to crack down on abuse of benefits, and he might get that He

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wants to restrict freedom of movement for future member states,

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and that's difficult, because it is a treaty change. And he wants to

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deal with closer union, but that is also treaty change. In the Council

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conclusions, David Cameron was encouraged because it said, let s

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look at closer union, but it did not say it would reform. All it said was

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ever closer union can be interpreted in different ways. In other words,

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we're not going to change it. The fundamental problem the David

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Cameron was that two years ago, when he vetoed the fiscal compact, that

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showed Angela Merkel was unwilling to help them and what happened in

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the last two weeks was that Angela Merkel was unable to help him. There

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is not a single leader of the European Union that once Juncker as

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president, and he doesn't want it, he wants the note take a job at the

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European Council. But there was this basic stitch up by the European

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Parliament that meant he was presented, and when Angela Merkel

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put the question over his head there was a huge backlash in Germany and

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she was unable to deliver. I understand that, but I'm looking

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forward to Mr Cameron's predicament. I don't know how he squares the

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circle. It seems inconceivable that he can bring back enough from

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Brussels to satisfy his backbenchers. No, you can't. Most of

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them fundamentally want out. They don't want to be persuaded by

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renegotiations. Where it's hard to draw conclusions from the polling is

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that if you ask people question that sounds like, do you like the fact

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that our Prime Minister has gone to Brussels and stuck it to the man,

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they say yes, but how many people will go to the voting booths and put

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their cross in the box based on Europe? We know mostly voters care

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about Europe as a proxy for immigration fears. In ten people in

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this country could not tell you who John Claude Juncker is Angela Weir

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is replacing. -- and who he is replacing.

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And I'm joined in the studio now by arch-Eurosceptic Conservative MEP,

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Daniel Hannan and from Strasbourg by staunch European and former Liberal

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war? His declared objectives would leave Britain still in the common

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agricultural policy, the common foreign policy, the European arrest

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warrant, so the negotiating aims which we just heard Nick setting out

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wouldn't fundamentally change anything. It would be easy for the

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Government to declare war on any of these things. The danger from your

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point of view as someone who wants to stay in is that if David Cameron

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only gets cosmetic changes, the chance of getting the vote to leave

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the European Union increases, doesn't it? Hypothetically it

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probably does but we have two big things to get through first in

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domestic politics before we even reach a negotiation. One is are we

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going to have the United Kingdom this time next year following the

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referendum in Scotland? Secondly, are the Conservatives after the

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general election next year going to be in a position to pursue a

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negotiation? In other words are they going to be a majority government or

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even a minority government? For the sake of this morning let's assume

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the answer to both is yes, the UK stays intact and against the polls

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they were saying this morning, David Cameron forms an overall majority

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after the election. There is a danger, if he doesn't bring much

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back, that people will vote yes correct? There is that danger and I

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see a lot of the British press comment this morning saying this

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could be a rerun of the Harold Wilson like negotiation of the

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1970s, a bit cosmetic but enough to say we have got new terms and you

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should go with it. I think what is different however, and this is

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really an appeal if you like, it cannot just be left to the Liberal

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Democrats and coalition government to make this case on our Rome. A lot

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of interest groups across the land will have to start being prepared to

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put their head above the parapet on the fundamental - do you want

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Britain to remain in the European Union? Yes or no? Are you willing to

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put your public reputations on the line? We are not getting enough of

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that at the moment and it is getting dangerously close to closing time.

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Daniel Hannan, David Cameron will not get away with this, will he It

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will be an acceptable to his party. If it is an acceptable to Tory

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backbenchers it is because it is working and they are reflecting what

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their constituents say. A majority of people in the country are unhappy

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with the present terms. They can see there is a huge wide world beyond

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the oceans and we have confined ourselves to this small trade bloc.

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There is a huge debate to be had about whether we could be doing

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better outside. It is not danger, it is democracy, trusting people. If

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the only person offering a referendum at the moment is the

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Prime Minister, it has serious consequences for his party, your

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party, that's what I'm talking about. I am very proud of being part

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of the party that is trusting people to offer this. If he only gets

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cosmetic changes he cannot carry his party. But ultimately it will not be

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his party, it is the electorate as a whole that has to decide whether the

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changes are substantive. Everything we have been hearing just now is

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about staying out of future integration, protecting the role of

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the non-euro countries. People are upset about what is going on today

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with the EU. They can see laws being passed by people they cannot vote

:19:32.:19:36.

for, friendships overseas are prejudiced, and they conceive that

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the European Union has just put in charge in the top slot somebody who

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wants a United States of Europe into which we will eventually be dragged

:19:46.:19:51.

into as some kind of Providence Jean-Claude Juncker is a Federalist,

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you are Federalist, why did the Lib Dems oppose him? We shared the view

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that whilst you take account of what the members of the European

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Parliament say, ultimately the choice of the presidency in the

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commission should be the political leaders, the governmental leaders at

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a national level, and that's why we went down the route we did. It was

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more to do with the system than the individual. Although I would say

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that you need to bear in mind, I mean Daniel, I respect him

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personally and the integrity of his views, as I think he does mine, but

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to dismiss the European Union as a small trading block globally, when

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you have got the United States of America, China and other countries

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acknowledging its importance, it is really Walter Mitty land. Are we

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closer than... Daniel Hannan, are we closer to an exit after what

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happened last week? Yes, because the idea that we could get substantive

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reforms, gets a mythic and powers back and be within a looser, more

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flexible European back and be within a looser, more

:21:25.:21:56.

via a unilateral system of power or another way. This debate is

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never-ending, it is going on and on and has bedevilled British prime

:22:03.:22:05.

ministers for as long as I can remember. Shouldn't the Lib Dems

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change their stance on the referendum yet again let's just have

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this in-out referendum and have it sided one way or another? Our

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position remains clear. If there is a constitutional issue put before us

:22:22.:22:23.

in terms a constitutional issue put before us

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taxes. You said this week that you liked the sound of Juncker

:23:54.:23:57.

federalism. Does that sound good to you? No, and I think the new

:23:58.:24:04.

president of the commission will be disappointed if he puts forward

:24:05.:24:07.

these views because although we only had Hungary voting with us, I think

:24:08.:24:14.

if you go to other countries, France, Poland, Scandinavia, they

:24:15.:24:19.

are not going to buy that kind of menu. What they mean by federalism

:24:20.:24:25.

is the continental concept, also the North American concept, that we can

:24:26.:24:35.

sit very happily... They have an army, a federal police force,

:24:36.:24:45.

federal taxation. Yes, but in terms of the political institutions which

:24:46.:24:48.

is what we are discussing here, you can have the supranational, the

:24:49.:24:52.

European level, whilst still having the very vibrant national, and

:24:53.:24:56.

indeed as we are practising in the United Kingdom the subnational. A

:24:57.:25:02.

very brief final word from you, Daniel. That is ultimately going to

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be the choice. The European Union is an evolving dynamic, we can see the

:25:10.:25:14.

direction it is going in. Do we want to be part of that? I suspect

:25:15.:25:18.

Charles Kennedy would have loved a referendum. I cannot help but notice

:25:19.:25:24.

his party is going downhill since he was running it. It is illegal to

:25:25.:25:39.

light up in the workplace, pubs and restaurants. Now the British Medical

:25:40.:25:43.

Association has voted to outlaw everywhere but not everybody at

:25:44.:25:47.

once. It would apply to anyone born after the year 2000. In a moment we

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will debate the merits of those plans but first he is Adam.

:25:53.:25:57.

There was a time when to be British was to be a smoker. 1948 was the

:25:58.:26:04.

year off peak fag with 82% of men smoking mainly cigarettes but it was

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a pipe that Harold Wilson used as a political prop to help with the

:26:10.:26:13.

hard-hitting interviews they did in those days. The advertisements make

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out pipe smokers to be more virile, more fascinating men than anybody

:26:18.:26:28.

else. Do you thought -- have that thought anywhere in your mind? No.

:26:29.:26:38.

It changed in 2006 when smoking in enclosed places was banned. I would

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rather be inside but unfortunately we have got to do what this

:26:44.:26:48.

Government tells us to do. I think it is good, it is calm and you can

:26:49.:26:54.

breathe. Research suggests it has improved the health of bar workers

:26:55.:26:59.

no end and reduced childhood asthma. Now just one in five adults is a

:27:00.:27:05.

smoker. Coming next, crackdowns on those newfangled e-cigarettes,

:27:06.:27:10.

smoking in cars and possibly the introduction of plain packaging

:27:11.:27:15.

There is still those who take pride in smoking and see it as a war on

:27:16.:27:19.

freedom. We're joined now by

:27:20.:27:34.

Dr Vivienne Nathanson from the British Medical Association

:27:35.:27:36.

who voted for a graduated ban on smoking at their conference last

:27:37.:27:42.

week, and Simon Clark They're here to go head-to-head

:27:43.:27:47.

There are plenty of things which are bad for our health, why single out

:27:48.:27:55.

cigarettes? We need some sugar in our diets but the fact is that we

:27:56.:28:03.

need to stop people smoking as children because if we can do that,

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the likelihood that they will start smoking is very small. In no

:28:09.:28:12.

circumstances is smoking good for you. There are lots of smokers who

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live long, healthy lives but we totally accept smoking is a risk to

:28:18.:28:22.

your health and adults have to make that decision, just as you make the

:28:23.:28:26.

decision about drinking alcohol eating fatty foods and drinking

:28:27.:28:32.

sugary drinks. This proposal is totally impractical. It will create

:28:33.:28:35.

a huge black market in cigarettes which will get bigger every year.

:28:36.:28:40.

They say this is about stopping children smoking but there is

:28:41.:28:45.

already a law in place that stops shopkeepers from selling cigarettes

:28:46.:28:49.

to children. This target adults so you could have the bizarre situation

:28:50.:28:56.

in the year 3035 for example where a 36-year-old can go into shops to buy

:28:57.:29:00.

cigarettes but if you are 35 you will be denied that, which is

:29:01.:29:05.

ludicrous. The point is that the younger you start smoking the more

:29:06.:29:09.

likely you will become heavily addicted. I take the point, but the

:29:10.:29:15.

point he is saying is that if this becomes law, down the road, if you

:29:16.:29:20.

go into shops to buy cigarettes you would have to take your birth

:29:21.:29:24.

certificate, wouldn't you? We have no idea how the legislation would be

:29:25.:29:29.

written but the key point is that if we can stop young people from

:29:30.:29:33.

starting to smoke, we will in 2 years have a whole group of people

:29:34.:29:38.

who have never smoked so you won't have that problem of people who are

:29:39.:29:42.

smokers and they are now in their 20s and 30s. Or you will have a lot

:29:43.:29:47.

of younger people who get cigarettes the way they currently get illegal

:29:48.:29:51.

drugs now. They are already getting cigarettes illegally and we have to

:29:52.:29:57.

deal with that. We have got to get better. The Government has not been

:29:58.:30:03.

able to stop it. We know this is going to kill 50%... When you are 15

:30:04.:30:12.

you think you will live for ever. Indeed but they also do it as

:30:13.:30:15.

rebellion and because they see adults and it is remarkably easy to

:30:16.:30:21.

buy cigarettes. Whatever the case is for individual choice, won't most

:30:22.:30:25.

people agree that if you could stop young people smoking, so that

:30:26.:30:29.

through the rest of their lives they never smoked, that would be worth

:30:30.:30:40.

doing? You get 16 or 17-year-olds who already do that. Is it worth

:30:41.:30:43.

trying? When the government increased the age at which

:30:44.:30:48.

shopkeepers could sell from 16 to 18, we supported it. We don't

:30:49.:30:54.

support a ban on proxy purchasing, we support reasonable measures, but

:30:55.:30:57.

this is unreasonable. This proposal says a lot about the BMA, because

:30:58.:31:03.

this week the BMA also passed a motion to ban the use of E

:31:04.:31:07.

cigarettes in public places. There is no evidence that they are

:31:08.:31:10.

dangerous to health, so why are they doing that? They are becoming a

:31:11.:31:15.

temperance society. This is not about public health, it's an

:31:16.:31:17.

old-fashioned temperance society and they have to get their act together

:31:18.:31:20.

because they are bringing the medical profession into disrepute.

:31:21.:31:26.

We were having argument is about things that people buy large accept,

:31:27.:31:31.

smoking in bars or public places, but the real aim of the BMA was the

:31:32.:31:34.

total banning of cigarettes altogether. This would suggest that

:31:35.:31:40.

that was true to claim that. It s not about a ban, it's about a move

:31:41.:31:43.

to a country where nobody wants to smoke and no one is a smoker. But it

:31:44.:31:49.

would be illegal to smoke. It would be illegal to buy, not smoke, and

:31:50.:31:53.

there's a difference between two. So even if I am born in the year 2 00,

:31:54.:31:59.

it would still be illegal to smoke, just illegal to buy the cigarettes?

:32:00.:32:05.

Indeed. The point being that the habit of smoking is very strongly

:32:06.:32:09.

linked to your ability to buy, so that is why things like Price and

:32:10.:32:12.

availability and marketing are so important. People will flood across

:32:13.:32:18.

the Channel with the cigarettes One thing you will find is that

:32:19.:32:21.

throughout the world people is looking at -- people are looking at

:32:22.:32:24.

the same kind of measures, and different countries like Australia,

:32:25.:32:29.

they were the first with a standardised packaging. Other

:32:30.:32:32.

countries will follow, because all of us are facing the fact that we

:32:33.:32:35.

can't afford to pay for the tragedy. There will be people

:32:36.:32:41.

waiting to flood the market with cigarettes. This is nonsense. Thanks

:32:42.:32:46.

for both coming and going head-to-head.

:32:47.:32:48.

"Unless we have more equal representation, our politics won't

:32:49.:32:52.

be half as good as it should be " So said David Cameron back in 2 09.

:32:53.:32:55.

So how's it going? Well, you can judge the quality

:32:56.:32:58.

of the politics for yourself, but we've been crunching

:32:59.:33:00.

the numbers to find out what parliament might look like after

:33:01.:33:03.

the next year's general election. Here's Giles.

:33:04.:33:07.

Politicians are elected to Parliament to represent their

:33:08.:33:11.

constituents, but the make-up of Parliament does not reflect society

:33:12.:33:17.

well at all the parties it. In 010 more women and ethnic minority

:33:18.:33:19.

candidates entered Westminster but not significantly more inner chamber

:33:20.:33:29.

still dominated by white males. Looking at the current make-up of

:33:30.:33:34.

the Commons, Labour has 83 female MPs, the Conservative have 47 women

:33:35.:33:39.

MPs, which is just over 47% -- and the Lib Dems have 12% of the

:33:40.:33:45.

parties. All of the parties have selected parliaments in those seats

:33:46.:33:49.

where existing MPs are retiring and to fight seats at the next

:33:50.:33:51.

election, and they've all been trying to up the number of women and

:33:52.:33:55.

ethnic minorities because discounts and can be capitalised on. A picture

:33:56.:34:00.

tells a thousand words. Look at the all-male front bench before us. And

:34:01.:34:05.

he says he wants to represent the whole country. Despite the jibe the

:34:06.:34:10.

Labour Party know they have a long way to go on the issue of being

:34:11.:34:12.

representative. So we way to go on the issue of being

:34:13.:34:23.

look at this particular area of lack of women and ethnic minorities.

:34:24.:34:24.

In the most marginal, 40 have women candidates, that would mean if they

:34:25.:34:56.

got just enough to win power, they would have 133 women, which is 1%

:34:57.:35:03.

The Conservatives currently have 305 MPs and their strategy

:35:04.:35:04.

at the next election is to concentrate on their 40 most

:35:05.:35:07.

marginal seats, and the 40 seats most mathematically likely to turn

:35:08.:35:10.

In those 40, 29 candidates have been selected

:35:11.:35:13.

If they kept hold of their existing seats and won those 29 new ones

:35:14.:35:18.

they would have 56 women MPs, around 17%, and up 2% from last time.

:35:19.:35:22.

The Liberal Democrats are fighting to hold on to the 57 seats they won

:35:23.:35:25.

at the last election, if they manage that, they would have

:35:26.:35:28.

However all the indications are it could be

:35:29.:35:33.

a bad night for the Lib Dems, if they lost 20 seats, on a uniform

:35:34.:35:37.

swing it would leave them with just four women, 11% of the party.

:35:38.:35:43.

One Conservative peer who thinks the party needs to look at all

:35:44.:35:46.

options if it's female numbers go down in 2015, says Parliament is

:35:47.:35:49.

The bottom line is, if 50% of our population is not being looked at

:35:50.:36:04.

evenly, are we really using the best of our talent? And yes, women's life

:36:05.:36:11.

experiences are different. They are not superior, they are not inferior.

:36:12.:36:15.

They are different. But surely those life experiences need to be

:36:16.:36:16.

represented here at Westminster So that's the Parliamentary

:36:17.:36:21.

projection for gender, According to the last census

:36:22.:36:22.

in 2011, 13% of people in the UK Labour currently has 16 MPs from

:36:23.:36:28.

black, Asian or minority ethnic backgrounds or just over 6%, if they

:36:29.:36:34.

get their extra 68 seats that figure would go up to 26, 8% of their party

:36:35.:36:37.

were from BAME backgrounds. The Tories currently have 11 BAME

:36:38.:36:41.

candidates, or 4% of the party. If they get an extra 29 seats,

:36:42.:36:48.

that would mean 14 BAME MPs, The Liberal Democrats

:36:49.:36:51.

don't have any BAME MPs. If they manage to cling

:36:52.:37:00.

on to their current number of seats they would have two,

:37:01.:37:05.

giving them a proportion of 4%. If they lost

:37:06.:37:08.

their 20 most vulnerable seats, But even if you changed the mix

:37:09.:37:10.

of gender and ethnicity in Parliament would that solve

:37:11.:37:20.

the problem? Probably not. Only 10% of us have gone to

:37:21.:37:22.

a private fee paid school. A Quarter of all Mps went to Oxford

:37:23.:37:27.

or Cambridge. Only a fifth

:37:28.:37:35.

of us went to any university. There is a huge disillusionment with

:37:36.:37:42.

the political elite due to the fact that these people don't look like

:37:43.:37:46.

us. They don't speak like us, they don't have our experiences and they

:37:47.:37:49.

cannot communicate in a way we relate to. If you look at the

:37:50.:37:54.

turnout, at the moment, if you are an unskilled worker, you are 20

:37:55.:37:57.

points less likely to turn and vote than a middle-class professional and

:37:58.:38:00.

that is getting worse with single election.

:38:01.:38:03.

And that's the key, evidence does suggest that if a

:38:04.:38:05.

Party reflects the society it exists within, it is more likely to get

:38:06.:38:09.

It's just gone 11.35pm, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:38:10.:38:18.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

:38:19.:38:20.

Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll have more from the panel.

:38:21.:38:24.

First though, the Sunday Politics where you are.

:38:25.:38:45.

struggle to fill vacancies, we ask struggle to fill vacancies, we

:38:46.:38:48.

whether the government's NHS reforms whether the government's NHS reforms

:38:49.:38:53.

are working. And for the next 2 minutes and joined by Stephdn Albert

:38:54.:39:00.

and Alison Seabeck. Welcome both of you. House prices are continuing to

:39:01.:39:06.

rise in the region despite talks of a slowdown in the market. The Office

:39:07.:39:13.

for National Statistics figtres show prices are up on last year `nd

:39:14.:39:13.

nearly ten times the averagd salary. nearly ten times the averagd salary.

:39:14.:39:18.

It means it is increasingly difficult for young people to get on

:39:19.:39:23.

the ladder. At the same timd, prices in the capital have risen bx 20 ,

:39:24.:39:29.

fuelling fears we have a London`centric country. Does that

:39:30.:39:30.

matter? I think for those people who are

:39:31.:39:35.

struggling to get on the property ladder here in the South West who

:39:36.:39:41.

are stuck in the hotel of mtm and dad and are in the private rented

:39:42.:39:43.

sector accommodation, what latters is we are not building enough homes

:39:44.:39:48.

as a country, whether in Cornwall, Devon or London. We need to tackle

:39:49.:39:54.

this. We are beginning to sde another inflated housing market We

:39:55.:39:58.

need investment to deliver homes across the country.

:39:59.:40:03.

Will it be enough to build lore homes?

:40:04.:40:07.

It underlines the thing when you only building 100,000 homes every

:40:08.:40:13.

year when you need 230,000 homes. Broken marriages, people living

:40:14.:40:19.

longer, all those things put pressure on housing stock. They have

:40:20.:40:21.

two build more. How could we speak that up? A whole

:40:22.:40:26.

range of reasons why we are not doing that. I have you got. There

:40:27.:40:35.

Developers build quickly will they Developers build quickly will they

:40:36.:40:40.

do get sites. We are looking at land banks and have had to talk `bout

:40:41.:40:45.

Tesco holding enough land for 1 ,000 homes. We need to look at sticks and

:40:46.:40:50.

carrots. The government needs to do lore

:40:51.:40:53.

about the land it is sitting on as well to make that available to

:40:54.:40:57.

developers. I have argued for this in the House of Commons manx times.

:40:58.:41:01.

Where we have speared government land that has been released for

:41:02.:41:05.

development. That is the only way to solve the problem.

:41:06.:41:08.

If we're being honest, is the dream up on former `` the dream of home

:41:09.:41:15.

ownership over? Absolutely not. Thousands of young

:41:16.:41:19.

people want to start a family and get a foot on housing ladder and get

:41:20.:41:23.

that stability and security. We have to be providing their aspir`tions.

:41:24.:41:28.

Importantly, if we don't have enough homes then they cannot read either.

:41:29.:41:35.

We have to move on. GP waithng times are going to become a key election

:41:36.:41:40.

interest. Practices are strtggling to recruit new GPs. Long`term

:41:41.:41:50.

investment has been called for as more shift from hospitals to GP

:41:51.:41:58.

practices. A glimpse into the life of ` rural

:41:59.:42:04.

GP in Cornwall. I visit anywhere between two and 12

:42:05.:42:09.

patients every day. It may click a bit like a scene from

:42:10.:42:17.

the TV series Doc Martin. Come on.

:42:18.:42:21.

Nice to see you. But this GP says the perception from some th`t those

:42:22.:42:24.

in general practice are overpaid and underworked isn't fair.

:42:25.:42:30.

It is not a cushy number. I work 11 or 12 hours a day nonstop. H don't

:42:31.:42:34.

have time to go home for lunch or anything like that and don't know

:42:35.:42:39.

any colleagues that do. I comment on weekends to catch up on

:42:40.:42:42.

administration. I don't think it is a cushy number at all.

:42:43.:42:48.

National campaigns are under way warning of a crisis in general

:42:49.:42:53.

practice. Inadequate funds, too much work load and stress are spoken of.

:42:54.:43:01.

This has traditionally been a sought`after role. You are right by

:43:02.:43:04.

the beach with the countryshde just minutes away. Now there are fears

:43:05.:43:07.

there would be enough peopld willing to take on the role. In message one

:43:08.:43:14.

GP has been highlighting at the British Medical Association

:43:15.:43:15.

conference. The south`west is to be one of the

:43:16.:43:20.

most popular areas for young doctors to be a GP. But there are 441 posts

:43:21.:43:26.

unfilled across the whole of the UK and in the south`west for the first

:43:27.:43:31.

time we have vacancies in Cornwall. That is basically because young

:43:32.:43:34.

doctors are not choosing to be GPs. The reason they are choosing not to

:43:35.:43:38.

as because of the unsustain`ble workload and the pressure any GPs

:43:39.:43:43.

say they are facing in day to day practice.

:43:44.:43:46.

Figures from health education England appeal from 2010 to 20 3

:43:47.:43:52.

100% of GP vacancies were fhlled. But this year that figure is at 93%.

:43:53.:43:59.

If you look at training vac`ncies, it is at 82%.

:44:00.:44:04.

Recruitment in general practice goes in cycles and we're reaching the

:44:05.:44:07.

bottom of the cycle at the loment. The difficulty is knowing whether it

:44:08.:44:11.

will go up again because it is becoming increasingly unattractive

:44:12.:44:13.

for people to come into. Patients here are unsatisfidd ``

:44:14.:44:20.

still satisfied with their service. I don't go to the doctor is very

:44:21.:44:24.

often and whenever I have to go like today when I am on holiday, it is

:44:25.:44:28.

nice to know you can get thd appointment and go when you need to

:44:29.:44:30.

see them. For my age, they have always helped

:44:31.:44:39.

me and it has been really good. Very valuable job. Ministers have

:44:40.:44:43.

been warned this is coming `t a cost.

:44:44.:44:47.

Six out of ten of them are looking to retire, their workload is unsafe

:44:48.:44:56.

and they failed their unabld to provide the service issued.

:44:57.:44:59.

The government is increasing trainees still GPs grow faster than

:45:00.:45:02.

the number of the population. They are also looking to better retain

:45:03.:45:07.

existing GPs and see robust plans are being put in place to m`ke sure

:45:08.:45:12.

that places are filled up the next couple of years.

:45:13.:45:16.

This seems a worrying trend, unfilled vacancies. Nobody wants to

:45:17.:45:22.

wait longer. These things can be cyclical.

:45:23.:45:28.

Overall, the has just said enough is enotgh.

:45:29.:47:17.

The people we spoke to wear seeing that they were struggling and the

:47:18.:47:20.

hours were getting longer. Can anything be done about that

:47:21.:47:25.

Since the coalition came in, a third of those targets have been scrapped.

:47:26.:47:30.

We need to constantly look `t whether the administrative burden on

:47:31.:47:36.

the GPs as appropriate. One third of them have gone. A whole bunch of

:47:37.:47:42.

commissioning staff has arrhved That is no means all of thel but it

:47:43.:47:49.

has an extra burden so it is about understanding the motives for each

:47:50.:47:53.

individual person. You didn't actually support the

:47:54.:47:58.

government's NHS reforms Bill. You didn't vote for it?

:47:59.:48:02.

No, he didn't. What were yot concerned about?

:48:03.:48:06.

Fragmentation of services which is something we will come onto.

:48:07.:48:10.

Is this causing some of the pressures we are finding, not just a

:48:11.:48:15.

GP services but in hospitals. CT scans waiting times... Is a part of

:48:16.:48:20.

the problem is vacancies within the Department.

:48:21.:48:23.

You are exactly right and that is why I didn't support the reforms.

:48:24.:48:29.

People want to know when thdy go to the GP or to the hospital that they

:48:30.:48:33.

are getting a good service but they're not concerned who provides

:48:34.:48:35.

the service. At the reforms gone wrong? What we

:48:36.:48:41.

are seeing is that some of the outsourcing and less complex is

:48:42.:48:51.

adding an extra area of burden. There are also more complic`ted We

:48:52.:48:57.

generated savings that we could use to put into GP services.

:48:58.:49:03.

?78 million puts a lot `` sdems like a lot.

:49:04.:49:04.

It is a lot. What would you do? And the reforms?

:49:05.:49:14.

We have spoken about repealhng some of the changes because we are

:49:15.:49:17.

convinced they are not all working. We need to look at it very carefully

:49:18.:49:22.

but on balance it is confushng for patients and for those in the health

:49:23.:49:27.

economy. Stephen touched upon this. We heard

:49:28.:49:36.

this week that NHS services could be privatised. The more profit`ble

:49:37.:49:40.

operations that can be taken away from the NHS but then that leaves

:49:41.:49:45.

the NHS with expensive things like triple heart bypass is. These

:49:46.:49:48.

companies are reaping the bdnefits from that.

:49:49.:49:52.

The benefits to the economy if you're paying private organhsations

:49:53.:50:01.

is that the money doesn't go into the NHS. So then the manager doesn't

:50:02.:50:10.

find the money for the more complex operations. I have spoken ott

:50:11.:50:15.

against them and said I don't want to see this as a direction of

:50:16.:50:20.

travel. Allowing private, and is to come into our NHS and cherrx picked

:50:21.:50:26.

the low hanging fruit to divide the services is not what patients want.

:50:27.:50:30.

Never did introduce an elemdnt of competition into the NHS and I think

:50:31.:50:33.

there is a role for private providers.

:50:34.:50:37.

You did start this. Do you think Labour started something th`t they

:50:38.:50:40.

now cannot turn the tap off of? Waiting lists worse so cute when we

:50:41.:50:51.

`` saw huge when we started. What I'm not clear about in terms of what

:50:52.:50:57.

is proposed in Cornwall is whether people would also be encour`ged to

:50:58.:51:03.

pay to jump the queue. That is an entirely different kettle of fish. I

:51:04.:51:10.

think we should oppose it. You wants to be able to get speedy

:51:11.:51:14.

treatment that is effective. You shouldn't have to pay for it. And

:51:15.:51:19.

you should be able to do so anyway that doesn't damage the NHS. I think

:51:20.:51:28.

what has been proposed meets those tests.

:51:29.:51:31.

We welcome back to this in different week. It is all change at the

:51:32.:51:36.

European Parliament this wedk as the MEPs have lost their seats love out

:51:37.:51:42.

to make way for the crock of new politicians. Green Watson whll now

:51:43.:51:47.

be leaving the European Parliament after 20 years of services `nd the

:51:48.:51:52.

region's first Green MEP gets to grips with her new job.

:51:53.:51:57.

We joined them. European politics isn't meant to be a stroll hn the

:51:58.:52:02.

park. But the Southwest's fhrst Green Euro MP is keen to walk when

:52:03.:52:10.

ever possible. Her first appointment as in Brussels. She is being lobbied

:52:11.:52:16.

to take control of EU funds for the county.

:52:17.:52:20.

How did it go? It was reallx good actually. I think there was a real

:52:21.:52:24.

meeting of minds in there. H don't see why this proposal to take power

:52:25.:52:28.

away from Cornwall has come forward because it doesn't seem any of it in

:52:29.:52:31.

Cornwall has come forward bdcause it doesn't seem any budding cornel so

:52:32.:52:37.

obviously there is some problem with Whitehall trying to take power of

:52:38.:52:40.

something which really should belong in the regions.

:52:41.:52:43.

Next up, her first green group meeting.

:52:44.:52:47.

These are Green MEPs and it is nice to be any big group of greens. I

:52:48.:52:51.

feel at home. Somebody who has felt at hole here

:52:52.:52:55.

for 20 years as green Watson. He has led the liberal group and sdrved on

:52:56.:53:01.

many a committee. But not for much longer. Everywhere he goes, old

:53:02.:53:09.

friends and colleagues of corrupt sympathy.

:53:10.:53:12.

How are you? Good to see you. I'm sorry to hear.

:53:13.:53:21.

Very kind of you. That's politics. I think the process of moving on is

:53:22.:53:28.

not a bad one. It started thinking a fresh. I hope I will be abld to

:53:29.:53:32.

carry the experience what I have had their into what I do next. One thing

:53:33.:53:39.

I want to miss is the kind of modern art which is on the walls. H'm not

:53:40.:53:43.

sure when it comes from but it is not always... If you take this piece

:53:44.:53:49.

for example, of the most inspired design. These are my offices. This

:53:50.:53:57.

is my assistant from Estoni`. This is where I have generally works from

:53:58.:54:04.

and you can see it is full of packing cases. I suppose thhs is one

:54:05.:54:09.

particular memento. This is my 0th birthday when I was leader of the

:54:10.:54:12.

Liberal Democrat group and was honoured to have the presiddnt of

:54:13.:54:15.

the game commission and the then president of the Rabin Parlhament to

:54:16.:54:21.

celebrate my with me. I havd had a few laughs as I have come across

:54:22.:54:24.

papers and things I had forgotten about entirely. Inevitably, a few

:54:25.:54:30.

regrets too. As I have come across mementos of friends or colldagues

:54:31.:54:36.

who've moved on. I think thd process of moving on is not a bad one. It

:54:37.:54:43.

started thinking a fresh, thinking in different ways. I take the view

:54:44.:54:47.

that you move on and you move on to new things. If you have a sdtback,

:54:48.:54:54.

as I have had at the polls, you pick yourself up, dust yourself off and

:54:55.:54:58.

start all over again as the old song says.

:54:59.:55:04.

One in 18 is the curse of bding a politician. But the Lib Dems did

:55:05.:55:11.

lose green Watson and others. Does that worry you ahead of the general

:55:12.:55:14.

election? I think there is no doubt that was a

:55:15.:55:18.

bad night for the Liberal Ddmocrats when we had the European eldctions.

:55:19.:55:22.

Personally, I am gutted that we have lost a grim because he has served

:55:23.:55:28.

the South West with distinction He has been a really hard`workhng MEP

:55:29.:55:32.

and it would be remiss of us not to remark on that as we talk about him.

:55:33.:55:37.

Neither Alison or I went into this profession thinking about job

:55:38.:55:41.

security. You think about some things you want to change and hope

:55:42.:55:44.

they can carry the public whki. We were very excited about the

:55:45.:55:50.

European elections and therd was a certain amount of Farage fever. How

:55:51.:55:59.

will that impact the general election?

:56:00.:56:03.

I think it will be back on the NHS and the economy. A number of things

:56:04.:56:08.

will have happened prior to the general election, one assumds, given

:56:09.:56:12.

the government's current programme. It will already be less of `n issue.

:56:13.:56:17.

It is not being discussed on the door in the same way that w`s in the

:56:18.:56:21.

run`up to the elections. I would like to put on record that H think

:56:22.:56:26.

Graham was a very good MEP. He will be missed and we now have clear mood

:56:27.:56:33.

either. You kept were doing well. W`s it

:56:34.:56:42.

that people were voting abott immigration?

:56:43.:56:47.

There were all sorts of things going on. There was a huge dissathsfaction

:56:48.:56:50.

with the establishment. There were people seeing, we just want to give

:56:51.:56:56.

you a kicking. Some people `ctually seeing that to us. Letting xou know.

:56:57.:57:02.

But they been tempted to sax but we will vote as we always used to vote

:57:03.:57:06.

in the general election. Th`t will be interesting to see if th`t shift

:57:07.:57:11.

back happens. We are picking it up on the doorstep already. UKHP have

:57:12.:57:21.

gone remarkably private. `` quiet.

:57:22.:57:26.

I've Lib Dems doing enough because you will be campaigning with this in

:57:27.:57:30.

mind? Immigration still comes up on the

:57:31.:57:33.

doorstep but the town of debate when I speak people has changed. It is

:57:34.:57:44.

very about the vision of thd future. What are the Liberal Democr`ts

:57:45.:57:47.

seeing about the next five xears? Meeting education services better,

:57:48.:57:52.

the health service providing poor people, the economy continuhng to

:57:53.:57:57.

grow. To coin a phrase from Bill Clinton's collection team, H think

:57:58.:58:01.

it will be the economy, stupid, again.

:58:02.:58:10.

Emigration will be one of a bunch of concerns.

:58:11.:58:14.

It is interesting. I have h`d lots of conversations on the doorstep and

:58:15.:58:21.

we are having more constructive and productive discussions about

:58:22.:58:24.

immigration. How does it work? The business in Plymouth who is

:58:25.:58:36.

employing foreigners, why are they doing that? Because they can employ

:58:37.:58:46.

locally. If they went to thd wall because they simply couldn't find

:58:47.:58:49.

people to do that rather unpleasant smelly work, what would happen? Is

:58:50.:58:55.

that therefore unacceptable use of labour from outside the UK? Those

:58:56.:59:00.

sorts of discussions you have got to have.

:59:01.:59:05.

It is time for our regular roundup of the political week in 60 seconds.

:59:06.:59:17.

Complaints over lack of mobhle phone coverage in the region. The

:59:18.:59:20.

government may force operators to share masts.

:59:21.:59:25.

It is ridiculous and 2014 that you cannot make a call on your lobile

:59:26.:59:28.

phone from your own home or from your business.

:59:29.:59:34.

60 jobs were lost as Miller Weisman closed its depot.

:59:35.:59:40.

The regions new privatised patient transport services where crhticise

:59:41.:59:47.

over long delays and sometiles not turning up.

:59:48.:59:50.

It was the stress and attention I was standing on the doorstep waiting

:59:51.:59:54.

to come in and never came. In response, NSL says it is doing

:59:55.:59:55.

OK. The service is good, fit for

:59:56.:00:02.

purpose. Most patients, the vast majority, I getting a very good

:00:03.:00:07.

service. Can we improve? Absolutely. And the governmdnt has

:00:08.:00:11.

defended its plans to scrap the independent team monitoring badger

:00:12.:00:16.

cull is. It says it will sthll use animal welfare experts.

:00:17.:00:23.

A quick roundup of the week. Mobile phones. The countryside Allhance

:00:24.:00:26.

says it has been overwhelmed with complaints about lack of signal in

:00:27.:00:29.

the region. The government hs considering making phone colpanies

:00:30.:00:33.

share masts. Good idea? Brilliant idea. Ht is

:00:34.:00:38.

interesting how the debate over mobile phone masts has changed from

:00:39.:00:44.

Adi a health hazard to why don't I have reception? It is compldtely

:00:45.:00:51.

bonkers that we don't have sufficient coverage and people

:00:52.:00:55.

actively getting systems. It is a total no`brainer. Most

:00:56.:01:00.

ordinary people would ask why hasn't something been done about this so

:01:01.:01:03.

far. That is the programme. Thanks to my

:01:04.:01:10.

guests. Before we had you b`ck to Andrew with the week ahead, don t

:01:11.:01:13.

forget you can check out our Facebook page and watch the

:01:14.:01:18.

programme again by the iPlaxer or e`mail us. Do enjoy the rest of your

:01:19.:01:24.

Sunday afternoon. might come back at you. There have

:01:25.:01:27.

been problems elsewhere in Europe, but I take your point. Thanks to

:01:28.:01:31.

both of you today. Back to you, Andrew.

:01:32.:01:36.

Now, there have been some less-than-helpful remarks

:01:37.:01:38.

about the way the Labour party makes policy, and they've come

:01:39.:01:41.

from the man who is heading Labour's Policy Review, Jon Cruddas.

:01:42.:01:46.

In a speech to party activists he was recorded saying that,

:01:47.:01:49.

"instrumentalised, cynical nuggets of policy to chime with our focus

:01:50.:01:52.

groups and our press strategies and our desire for a topline in terms of

:01:53.:01:55.

the 24 hour media cycle, dominate and crowd out any

:01:56.:01:58.

He added that Labour's election strategy was being hampered by a

:01:59.:02:08.

The shadow chancellor, Ed Balls was asked about what Mr Cruddas had

:02:09.:02:21.

I talked to him a couple of days ago, and he's not frustrated, he is

:02:22.:02:30.

excited about his policy agenda He is frustrated that one report of 250

:02:31.:02:37.

pages gets reduced down. So it's our fault? That is the way we live in

:02:38.:02:43.

the world in which we live, but we have big ideas about devolution

:02:44.:02:47.

long term infrastructure spending and new manufacturing policy, new

:02:48.:02:51.

investment in skills, big changes which, let's be honest, I'm really

:02:52.:02:58.

on George Osborne's agenda. How serious is this? It is Wimbledon, so

:02:59.:03:04.

let's call it an unforced error You go to the party speeches, and you

:03:05.:03:08.

don't know who is in the audience. There is no need for something as

:03:09.:03:11.

serious as this to happen. It's hugely serious because it speaks

:03:12.:03:14.

about something people have felt for a long time, that they have doled

:03:15.:03:18.

out little nuggets of policy but no overarching story. There was a quite

:03:19.:03:22.

saying the Ed Miliband has given as a shopping list, not a narrative.

:03:23.:03:27.

When people in the party say things that are true, it's very difficult

:03:28.:03:31.

for people to explain it away. Not sure Mr Miliband can win here. He

:03:32.:03:35.

was recently criticised for not having policies. Now he's being

:03:36.:03:39.

criticised for having too many. I think this line of attack is

:03:40.:03:42.

particularly wounding because he prides himself on being a politician

:03:43.:03:45.

of ideas. That is his unique selling point, and the weight that David

:03:46.:03:52.

Cameron's prime ministerial nature is his selling point. So it is

:03:53.:03:56.

wounding. If I was the Labour Party, before announcing any policy, I

:03:57.:04:02.

would ask can help fix us on the economy? It might be radicalised

:04:03.:04:05.

immolating on its own terms, but it's politically useless. -- radical

:04:06.:04:11.

and innovative on its own terms I don't think any member of the public

:04:12.:04:14.

does not think they are not radical enough or creative enough. If

:04:15.:04:18.

anything, it's the opposite. They are a bit nervous about what a

:04:19.:04:21.

Labour government could do and nervous about the economic

:04:22.:04:24.

reputation. Reassurance, caution, maybe a bit of timidity might be the

:04:25.:04:30.

notions that inform their policies or should inform their policies in

:04:31.:04:35.

night -- my view, not the opposite. I am worried for Jon Cruddas,

:04:36.:04:38.

because anyone who questions the Labour Party are part of the nexus

:04:39.:04:42.

of the banking industry who are terrified of a Labour victory. It's

:04:43.:04:46.

interesting that this goes to the heart of the debate in the Labour

:04:47.:04:49.

Party, at the highest levels, do they put a big offer to the British

:04:50.:04:54.

people, or a little off, John Cruddas offer, or Douglas Alexander

:04:55.:04:59.

offer? Ed Miliband says that his ideas about freezing energy prices

:05:00.:05:04.

and rent controls are a big offer, but his policy chief clearly has

:05:05.:05:07.

real concerns that they don't go far enough. How important a figure is

:05:08.:05:13.

John Cruddas in the project? He is hell of the -- head of the policy

:05:14.:05:17.

review and has a huge amount of power, and so him slagging off the

:05:18.:05:21.

policy review is a bad moment. He is trusted in that inner circle and the

:05:22.:05:26.

problem for Ed Miliband from the odd is that he has people with strong

:05:27.:05:30.

opinions, Maurice clasping is another, big thinkers, but they

:05:31.:05:34.

maybe don't have a precaution that a professional politician might have

:05:35.:05:38.

in terms of giving bland answers. So, David Cameron had to apologise

:05:39.:05:42.

after his former director of communications was convicted

:05:43.:05:45.

of phone hacking. David Cameron's other former friend,

:05:46.:05:47.

Rebekah Brooks, had a better day. At the same trial, she was cleared

:05:48.:05:50.

of all the charges against her. I take full responsibility for

:05:51.:06:00.

employing Andy Coulson. I did some on the basis of undertakings I was

:06:01.:06:04.

given by him about phone hacking and those turned out not to be the case.

:06:05.:06:07.

I always said that if they turned out to be wrong, I would make a full

:06:08.:06:11.

and frank apology, and I do that today. I am extremely sorry that I

:06:12.:06:16.

employed him. It was the wrong decision. I'm clear about that. When

:06:17.:06:21.

I was arrested it was in the middle of a maelstrom of controversy,

:06:22.:06:25.

politics and of comment. Some of that was there, but much of it was

:06:26.:06:31.

not, so I'm grateful to the jury for coming to that decision. Not been a

:06:32.:06:39.

great week for David Cameron. Andy Coulson found guilty, and another

:06:40.:06:43.

person who had worked in Downing Street is also charged on an

:06:44.:06:49.

unrelated issue. And he was 26- on the wrong end in Brussels, and there

:06:50.:06:52.

is a poll this morning which no one seems to be talking about which puts

:06:53.:06:56.

Labour nine points ahead. Before all that there was Dominic Cummings

:06:57.:06:59.

criticising the Downing Street operation is being shambolic. Is Mr

:07:00.:07:04.

Cameron's judgement becoming an issue? Yes, what often happens when

:07:05.:07:08.

one leader is under pressure for long enough, as Ed Miliband has been

:07:09.:07:11.

the six months, we get bored. We then switch the Gatling gun to the

:07:12.:07:16.

other guy. So David Cameron going into the Conference season might be

:07:17.:07:19.

the man under pressure. The whole Andy Coulson saga has raised

:07:20.:07:22.

questions about his judgement and those around him, but any political

:07:23.:07:26.

damage she was going to sustain over Andy Coulson and phone hacking was

:07:27.:07:29.

sustained years ago -- he was going. It was Brother beyond the

:07:30.:07:32.

date the News of the World was closed down three summers ago - it

:07:33.:07:38.

was probably on the date. As the hacking trial cut through to the

:07:39.:07:44.

general public? Or is it just as media and political obsessives? I am

:07:45.:07:47.

sure it has cut through in some way but it didn't necessarily happen in

:07:48.:07:51.

recent days, more likely in recent years. It was some time ago that

:07:52.:07:55.

Andy Coulson resigned in high profile circumstances. It has had a

:07:56.:07:59.

slow burning effect over a few years, and the Prime Minister fears

:08:00.:08:04.

the Big Bang. But there is one theme and words that unites this week with

:08:05.:08:08.

Juncker and Andy Coulson, and that is that the Prime Minister can be

:08:09.:08:12.

lackadaisical. He was lackadaisical in not asking big question is when

:08:13.:08:15.

there was a lot in the public domain about what had happened that the

:08:16.:08:18.

News of the World. And he was lackadaisical with Juncker. He made

:08:19.:08:22.

a calculation that Angela Merkel would support him and it turned out

:08:23.:08:27.

she couldn't. Maybe he needs to change. He was late in understanding

:08:28.:08:31.

what was happening in Germany when both the Christian Democrats, her

:08:32.:08:32.

party, wanted Juncker, and when the both the Christian Democrats, her

:08:33.:09:13.

the Prime Minister and in which Mr Miliband has a bigger lead in the

:09:14.:09:16.

polls than he has had some time so he must be wondering why they are

:09:17.:09:20.

having a go at him. He made a tactical error in Prime Minister's

:09:21.:09:23.

Questions by asking all the questions about Andy Coulson. The

:09:24.:09:24.

one at the end questions about Andy Coulson. The

:09:25.:10:36.

is getting involved in this questions about Andy Coulson. The

:10:37.:10:40.

question mark on the issue of grammar schools is not clear anybody

:10:41.:10:46.

listened to him. I think it is a principal problem. I've spoken to

:10:47.:10:49.

form a government members, and judging by what they say, if

:10:50.:10:53.

anything we underestimate how much contacting makes with ministers And

:10:54.:10:56.

how many representations he makes on the issue that interest him. There

:10:57.:11:02.

has been an attempt to keep it hidden. It's almost a theological

:11:03.:11:05.

question about whether the future monarch should be involved in the

:11:06.:11:10.

public realm. If he wants to influence policy, shouldn't we know

:11:11.:11:13.

what policy he's trying to influence and what position he is taking?

:11:14.:11:19.

Sewer speech is better than private one-on-one lobbying. Possibly - so

:11:20.:11:24.

a speech. Prince Charles's views are interesting. He's not a straight

:11:25.:11:28.

down the light reactionary. He makes a left-wing case for rammer schools.

:11:29.:11:32.

There is an interview with him in the Financial Times in which his

:11:33.:11:37.

argument in favour for architectural development takes into account

:11:38.:11:41.

affordable housing in the wake which no one would have suspected. He has

:11:42.:11:43.

interesting views, but I'm not convinced on the point of principle

:11:44.:11:48.

whether someone is dashing his position should be speaking. Your

:11:49.:11:52.

former employer 's famously described him as the SDP king. You

:11:53.:11:59.

slightly feel sorry for him. He s 66 and still an apprentice. He's in a

:12:00.:12:06.

difficult position. We know what the powers of the monarch are. They are

:12:07.:12:10.

to advise in courage and warned the Prime Minister of the day. These in

:12:11.:12:13.

the difficult position where the problem for him is that there is a

:12:14.:12:16.

line that isn't really defined, but you slightly feel he just gets a bit

:12:17.:12:21.

too close to it and possibly crosses that line with the lobbying that

:12:22.:12:26.

goes on. I think the worrying thing is that at some point he will become

:12:27.:12:30.

King and will he know that he has got to work within that framework?

:12:31.:12:35.

He is somebody that cannot win either. If he doesn't take an

:12:36.:12:38.

interest in public policy, he will be thought to be a bit of a waster,

:12:39.:12:43.

going round opening town halls, and when he does have an interest we

:12:44.:12:46.

think, hey, you are in the monarchy, stay out. There's an interesting

:12:47.:12:51.

parallel with first ladies who are encouraged to find a controversial

:12:52.:12:56.

charitable project. Michelle Obama has bought childhood obesity, and

:12:57.:13:01.

that is the standard thing. Everybody knows that that is a bad

:13:02.:13:04.

thing, but you are not offering solutions that are party political.

:13:05.:13:08.

I feel there must be a middle way with what he should be able to do

:13:09.:13:12.

about finding big causes he can complain about without getting stuck

:13:13.:13:16.

into lobbying ministers. Which can become a party political issue. He

:13:17.:13:19.

has had some influence on architecture, because the buildings

:13:20.:13:22.

we are putting up to date are better than the ones we used to put up

:13:23.:13:24.

The Daily Politics is on BBC 2 at 11:00am

:13:25.:13:29.

We'll be back here at the same time next week.

:13:30.:13:34.

Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

:13:35.:13:38.

With Lucie Fisher. Andrew Neil is joined by Europe Minister David Lidington, Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan and Lib Dem Charles Kennedy to discuss David Cameron's EU defeat. Also should there be a complete ban on smoking?


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