29/06/2014 Sunday Politics South West


29/06/2014

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No surprise that Mr Cameron didn't get his way at the European summit.

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But does it mean Britain has just moved closer to the EU exit?

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Doctors want to ban smoking outright.

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A sensible health measure or the health lobby's secret plan all

:01:09.:01:10.

In the south`west, as GP pr`ctices in the region struggle to fhll

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vacancies, are And with me, as always,

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the best and the brightest political panel in the business Nick Watt

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Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. They've had their usual cognac,

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or Juncker as it's known in Luxembourg, for breakfast and will

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be tweeting under the influence He's a boozing, chain-smoking,

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millionaire bon viveur who's made it big in the world of European

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politic. I speak of Jean-Claude Juncker, the

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former Prime Minister of Luxembourg He'll soon be President

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of the European Commission, He wasn't David Cameron's choice

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of course. But those the PM thought were his

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allies deserted him and he ended up on the wrong end of a 26-2 vote in

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favour of Arch-Fedrealist Juncker. -- on the wrong end of a 26-2 vote

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in favour of Arch-Federalist So where does this leave

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Mr Cameron's hopes of major reform and repatriation

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of EU powers back to the UK? Let's speak to his

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Europe Minister David Lidington Welcome to the programme. The Prime

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Minister says that now with Mr Juncker at the helm, the battle to

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keep Britain in the EU has got harder. In what way has it got

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harder? For two reasons. The majority of the leaders have

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accepted the process that shifts power, it will not careful, from the

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elected heads of government right cross Europe to the party bosses,

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the faction leaders in the European Parliament and and the disaffection

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was made clear in many European countries. Mr Juncker had a

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distinguished period as head of Luxembourg, and was not a known

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reformer, but we have to judge on how he leads the commission and

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there were some elements in the mandate that the heads of government

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gave this week to the new incoming European Commission that I think are

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cautiously encouraging for us. The Prime Minister talked about those

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that not everybody wants to integrate and to the same extent and

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speed. Let me just interrupt you. What is new about saying that Europe

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can go closer to closer union at different speeds? That has always

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been the case. It's nothing new Indeed there are precedents, and

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they are good examples of the approach as part of the course and

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one of the elements that the Prime Minister is taking forward in the

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strategy is to get general acceptance that while we agree that

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most of the partners have agreed to the single currency will want to

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press forward with closer integration of their economic and

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tax policies, but not every country in the EU is going to want to do

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that. We have to see the pattern that has grown up enough to

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recognise there is a diverse EU with 28 member states and more in the

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future. We won't all integrate the extent. It is a matter of a pattern

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that is differentiation and integration. I understand that. John

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Major used to call it variable geometry, and other phrases nobody

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used to understand, but the point is that you're back benches don't want

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any union at any speed, even in the slow lane. They want to go in the

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other direction. It depends which backbencher you talk to. There's a

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diverse range of views. I think that there is acceptance that the core of

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the Prime Minister's approaches to seek reform of the European Union,

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for renegotiation after the election, then put it to the British

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people to decide. It won't be the British government or ministers that

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take the final decision, it's the British people, provided they are a

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Conservative government, who will take the decision on the basis of

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the reforms that David Cameron secures whether they want to stay in

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or not. Is there more of a chance, not a certainty or probability, but

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at least more of a chance that with Mr Juncker in that position of

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Britain leaving the EU? I don't think we can say that at the moment.

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I think we can say that the task of reform looks harder than it did a

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couple of weeks ago. But we have do put Mr Juncker to the test. I do

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think he would want his commission to be marked and I think that there

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is, and I find this in numbers around Europe, and there is a

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growing recognition that things cannot go on as they have been.

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Europe, economically, is in danger of losing a lot of ground will stop

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millions of youngsters are out of work already that reform. There is

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real anxiety and a number of countries now about the extent to

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which opinion polls and election results are showing a shift of

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support to both left and right wing parties, sometimes outright

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neofascist movements, expressing real content and resentment at

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Howard in touch -- how out of touch decisions have become. You say you

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are sensing anxiety about the condition of Europe, so why did they

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choose Mr Juncker then? You would have to put that question to some of

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the heads of European government. Clearly there were a number for whom

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domestic politics played a big role in the eventual decision that they

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took. There were some who had signed up to the lead candidate process and

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felt they could not back away from that, whatever their private

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feelings might have been, but I think the PM was right to say that

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this was a matter of principle and it shouldn't just be left as a

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stitch up by the European Parliament to tell us what they do. He said, I

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can't agree to pretend to acquiesce. They have to make the opposition

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clear that go on with reform. Are the current terms of membership for

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us unacceptable? The current terms of the membership are very far from

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perfect. Are they unacceptable? The current terms are certainly not ones

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that I feel comfortable with. The Prime Minister described them as

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unacceptable. Do you think they are? We look at the views of the British

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people at the moment. If you look at the polling at the moment, the

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evidence is that people are split on whether they think membership is a

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good thing. I'm asking what you think. David Cameron wants to in --

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endorse changes in our interest but also because the biggest market is

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going to suffer if they don't challenge -- grasp the challenge of

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political and economic reform. Newsnight, Friday night, Malcolm

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Rifkind the former Secretary of State said to me that even if the

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choice was to stay in on the existing terms, he would vote to

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stay in on the existing terms. He doesn't necessarily like them, but

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he would vote to stay in. That is the authentic voice of the Foreign

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Office, isn't it? That is the position of your department. Is it

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your position? Malcolm Rifkind is a distinguished and independent minded

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backbencher. He's not in government now. But that is your position. No,

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the position of the government and the Conservative Party in the

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government is that we believe that important changes, both economic and

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political reforms, are necessary and that they are attainable in our

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interest and those of Europe as a whole. Would you vote to stay in on

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the existing terms? That's not going to be a question that the

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referendum. Really? I know that in 2017 Europe is going to look rather

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different to how it looks today For one thing our colleagues in the

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Eurozone will want and need to press ahead with closer integration.

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That, in our view, needs to be done in a way that fully respects the

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rights of those of us who remain outside. Variable geometry, tackling

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things like the abuse of freedom of migration. Those are all in the

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conclusions from the leader this week and we should welcome that

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Very briefly, finally, when will you, as a government, give us the

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negotiating position of the government? Will you give us what

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you hope to achieve before the election or not? David Cameron set

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out very clearly in his Bloomberg speech that he wanted a Europe that

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was more democratically accountable, more flexible, more at it --

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economically competitive. That is all very general. When will you lay

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out the negotiating position? It's not general. It is very far from

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general. We have seen evidence in the successful cut of the European

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budget, the reform of fisheries those reforms have started to take

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effect. We have won some victories and I'm sure the Prime Minister as

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we get towards the general election, will want to make clear what the

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Conservative Party position is, and perhaps other political leaders will

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do the same for their party. Thank you for joining us this morning The

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harsh reality of this is that there is a yawning gap between what the

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Prime Minister can hope to bring back and what will satisfy his

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Conservative backbenchers. Yes, I think the Parliamentary Conservative

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Party is divided into three parts, those who would vote to leave the EU

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regardless, those who would stay regardless, and a huge middle ground

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of people who want to stay in on renegotiated terms. These are not

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three equal parts. Those who would vote to stay in regardless are

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smaller and smaller. Compared to 20 years ago, tiny. But the people in

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the middle, generally, would only stay in if you secure a

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renegotiation that will not be re-secured. In other words, they are

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de facto, out by 2017 and the referendum. This whole saga of the

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recent weeks has been the single biggest economy in foreign policy

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under this government. That's not what the voters think. -- single

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biggest ignominy. I mean the failure to secure the target. The opinion

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polls show that standing up against Mr Juncker has proved rather

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popular. I suggest that is not Mr Cameron's problem. His problem is

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that, if in the end he gets only because Medic changes, and if he

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says he still thinks that with these changes -- cosmetic changes. And he

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says that they should stay in, that would split the Tory party wide

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open. Eurosceptics say would be the biggest split since the corn laws.

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He wants to protect the position of coming out, and you might get that.

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He wants to crack down on abuse of benefits, and he might get that He

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wants to restrict freedom of movement for future member states,

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and that's difficult, because it is a treaty change. And he wants to

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deal with closer union, but that is also treaty change. In the Council

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conclusions, David Cameron was encouraged because it said, let s

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look at closer union, but it did not say it would reform. All it said was

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ever closer union can be interpreted in different ways. In other words,

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we're not going to change it. The fundamental problem the David

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Cameron was that two years ago, when he vetoed the fiscal compact, that

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showed Angela Merkel was unwilling to help them and what happened in

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the last two weeks was that Angela Merkel was unable to help him. There

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is not a single leader of the European Union that once Juncker as

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president, and he doesn't want it, he wants the note take a job at the

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European Council. But there was this basic stitch up by the European

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Parliament that meant he was presented, and when Angela Merkel

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put the question over his head there was a huge backlash in Germany and

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she was unable to deliver. I understand that, but I'm looking

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forward to Mr Cameron's predicament. I don't know how he squares the

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circle. It seems inconceivable that he can bring back enough from

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Brussels to satisfy his backbenchers. No, you can't. Most of

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them fundamentally want out. They don't want to be persuaded by

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renegotiations. Where it's hard to draw conclusions from the polling is

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that if you ask people question that sounds like, do you like the fact

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that our Prime Minister has gone to Brussels and stuck it to the man,

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they say yes, but how many people will go to the voting booths and put

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their cross in the box based on Europe? We know mostly voters care

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about Europe as a proxy for immigration fears. In ten people in

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this country could not tell you who John Claude Juncker is Angela Weir

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is replacing. -- and who he is replacing.

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And I'm joined in the studio now by arch-Eurosceptic Conservative MEP,

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Daniel Hannan and from Strasbourg by staunch European and former Liberal

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war? His declared objectives would leave Britain still in the common

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agricultural policy, the common foreign policy, the European arrest

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warrant, so the negotiating aims which we just heard Nick setting out

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wouldn't fundamentally change anything. It would be easy for the

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Government to declare war on any of these things. The danger from your

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point of view as someone who wants to stay in is that if David Cameron

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only gets cosmetic changes, the chance of getting the vote to leave

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the European Union increases, doesn't it? Hypothetically it

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probably does but we have two big things to get through first in

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domestic politics before we even reach a negotiation. One is are we

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going to have the United Kingdom this time next year following the

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referendum in Scotland? Secondly, are the Conservatives after the

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general election next year going to be in a position to pursue a

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negotiation? In other words are they going to be a majority government or

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even a minority government? For the sake of this morning let's assume

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the answer to both is yes, the UK stays intact and against the polls

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they were saying this morning, David Cameron forms an overall majority

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after the election. There is a danger, if he doesn't bring much

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back, that people will vote yes correct? There is that danger and I

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see a lot of the British press comment this morning saying this

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could be a rerun of the Harold Wilson like negotiation of the

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1970s, a bit cosmetic but enough to say we have got new terms and you

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should go with it. I think what is different however, and this is

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really an appeal if you like, it cannot just be left to the Liberal

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Democrats and coalition government to make this case on our Rome. A lot

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of interest groups across the land will have to start being prepared to

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put their head above the parapet on the fundamental - do you want

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Britain to remain in the European Union? Yes or no? Are you willing to

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put your public reputations on the line? We are not getting enough of

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that at the moment and it is getting dangerously close to closing time.

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Daniel Hannan, David Cameron will not get away with this, will he It

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will be an acceptable to his party. If it is an acceptable to Tory

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backbenchers it is because it is working and they are reflecting what

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their constituents say. A majority of people in the country are unhappy

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with the present terms. They can see there is a huge wide world beyond

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the oceans and we have confined ourselves to this small trade bloc.

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There is a huge debate to be had about whether we could be doing

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better outside. It is not danger, it is democracy, trusting people. If

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the only person offering a referendum at the moment is the

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Prime Minister, it has serious consequences for his party, your

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party, that's what I'm talking about. I am very proud of being part

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of the party that is trusting people to offer this. If he only gets

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cosmetic changes he cannot carry his party. But ultimately it will not be

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his party, it is the electorate as a whole that has to decide whether the

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changes are substantive. Everything we have been hearing just now is

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about staying out of future integration, protecting the role of

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the non-euro countries. People are upset about what is going on today

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with the EU. They can see laws being passed by people they cannot vote

:19:32.:19:36.

for, friendships overseas are prejudiced, and they conceive that

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the European Union has just put in charge in the top slot somebody who

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wants a United States of Europe into which we will eventually be dragged

:19:46.:19:51.

into as some kind of Providence Jean-Claude Juncker is a Federalist,

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you are Federalist, why did the Lib Dems oppose him? We shared the view

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that whilst you take account of what the members of the European

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Parliament say, ultimately the choice of the presidency in the

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commission should be the political leaders, the governmental leaders at

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a national level, and that's why we went down the route we did. It was

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more to do with the system than the individual. Although I would say

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that you need to bear in mind, I mean Daniel, I respect him

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personally and the integrity of his views, as I think he does mine, but

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to dismiss the European Union as a small trading block globally, when

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you have got the United States of America, China and other countries

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acknowledging its importance, it is really Walter Mitty land. Are we

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closer than... Daniel Hannan, are we closer to an exit after what

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happened last week? Yes, because the idea that we could get substantive

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reforms, gets a mythic and powers back and be within a looser, more

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flexible European back and be within a looser, more

:21:25.:21:56.

via a unilateral system of power or another way. This debate is

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never-ending, it is going on and on and has bedevilled British prime

:22:03.:22:05.

ministers for as long as I can remember. Shouldn't the Lib Dems

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change their stance on the referendum yet again let's just have

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this in-out referendum and have it sided one way or another? Our

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position remains clear. If there is a constitutional issue put before us

:22:22.:22:23.

in terms a constitutional issue put before us

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taxes. You said this week that you liked the sound of Juncker

:23:54.:23:57.

federalism. Does that sound good to you? No, and I think the new

:23:58.:24:04.

president of the commission will be disappointed if he puts forward

:24:05.:24:07.

these views because although we only had Hungary voting with us, I think

:24:08.:24:14.

if you go to other countries, France, Poland, Scandinavia, they

:24:15.:24:19.

are not going to buy that kind of menu. What they mean by federalism

:24:20.:24:25.

is the continental concept, also the North American concept, that we can

:24:26.:24:35.

sit very happily... They have an army, a federal police force,

:24:36.:24:45.

federal taxation. Yes, but in terms of the political institutions which

:24:46.:24:48.

is what we are discussing here, you can have the supranational, the

:24:49.:24:52.

European level, whilst still having the very vibrant national, and

:24:53.:24:56.

indeed as we are practising in the United Kingdom the subnational. A

:24:57.:25:02.

very brief final word from you, Daniel. That is ultimately going to

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be the choice. The European Union is an evolving dynamic, we can see the

:25:10.:25:14.

direction it is going in. Do we want to be part of that? I suspect

:25:15.:25:18.

Charles Kennedy would have loved a referendum. I cannot help but notice

:25:19.:25:24.

his party is going downhill since he was running it. It is illegal to

:25:25.:25:39.

light up in the workplace, pubs and restaurants. Now the British Medical

:25:40.:25:43.

Association has voted to outlaw everywhere but not everybody at

:25:44.:25:47.

once. It would apply to anyone born after the year 2000. In a moment we

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will debate the merits of those plans but first he is Adam.

:25:53.:25:57.

There was a time when to be British was to be a smoker. 1948 was the

:25:58.:26:04.

year off peak fag with 82% of men smoking mainly cigarettes but it was

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a pipe that Harold Wilson used as a political prop to help with the

:26:10.:26:13.

hard-hitting interviews they did in those days. The advertisements make

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out pipe smokers to be more virile, more fascinating men than anybody

:26:18.:26:28.

else. Do you thought -- have that thought anywhere in your mind? No.

:26:29.:26:38.

It changed in 2006 when smoking in enclosed places was banned. I would

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rather be inside but unfortunately we have got to do what this

:26:44.:26:48.

Government tells us to do. I think it is good, it is calm and you can

:26:49.:26:54.

breathe. Research suggests it has improved the health of bar workers

:26:55.:26:59.

no end and reduced childhood asthma. Now just one in five adults is a

:27:00.:27:05.

smoker. Coming next, crackdowns on those newfangled e-cigarettes,

:27:06.:27:10.

smoking in cars and possibly the introduction of plain packaging

:27:11.:27:15.

There is still those who take pride in smoking and see it as a war on

:27:16.:27:19.

freedom. We're joined now by

:27:20.:27:34.

Dr Vivienne Nathanson from the British Medical Association

:27:35.:27:36.

who voted for a graduated ban on smoking at their conference last

:27:37.:27:42.

week, and Simon Clark They're here to go head-to-head

:27:43.:27:47.

There are plenty of things which are bad for our health, why single out

:27:48.:27:55.

cigarettes? We need some sugar in our diets but the fact is that we

:27:56.:28:03.

need to stop people smoking as children because if we can do that,

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the likelihood that they will start smoking is very small. In no

:28:09.:28:12.

circumstances is smoking good for you. There are lots of smokers who

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live long, healthy lives but we totally accept smoking is a risk to

:28:18.:28:22.

your health and adults have to make that decision, just as you make the

:28:23.:28:26.

decision about drinking alcohol eating fatty foods and drinking

:28:27.:28:32.

sugary drinks. This proposal is totally impractical. It will create

:28:33.:28:35.

a huge black market in cigarettes which will get bigger every year.

:28:36.:28:40.

They say this is about stopping children smoking but there is

:28:41.:28:45.

already a law in place that stops shopkeepers from selling cigarettes

:28:46.:28:49.

to children. This target adults so you could have the bizarre situation

:28:50.:28:56.

in the year 3035 for example where a 36-year-old can go into shops to buy

:28:57.:29:00.

cigarettes but if you are 35 you will be denied that, which is

:29:01.:29:05.

ludicrous. The point is that the younger you start smoking the more

:29:06.:29:09.

likely you will become heavily addicted. I take the point, but the

:29:10.:29:15.

point he is saying is that if this becomes law, down the road, if you

:29:16.:29:20.

go into shops to buy cigarettes you would have to take your birth

:29:21.:29:24.

certificate, wouldn't you? We have no idea how the legislation would be

:29:25.:29:29.

written but the key point is that if we can stop young people from

:29:30.:29:33.

starting to smoke, we will in 2 years have a whole group of people

:29:34.:29:38.

who have never smoked so you won't have that problem of people who are

:29:39.:29:42.

smokers and they are now in their 20s and 30s. Or you will have a lot

:29:43.:29:47.

of younger people who get cigarettes the way they currently get illegal

:29:48.:29:51.

drugs now. They are already getting cigarettes illegally and we have to

:29:52.:29:57.

deal with that. We have got to get better. The Government has not been

:29:58.:30:03.

able to stop it. We know this is going to kill 50%... When you are 15

:30:04.:30:12.

you think you will live for ever. Indeed but they also do it as

:30:13.:30:15.

rebellion and because they see adults and it is remarkably easy to

:30:16.:30:21.

buy cigarettes. Whatever the case is for individual choice, won't most

:30:22.:30:25.

people agree that if you could stop young people smoking, so that

:30:26.:30:29.

through the rest of their lives they never smoked, that would be worth

:30:30.:30:40.

doing? You get 16 or 17-year-olds who already do that. Is it worth

:30:41.:30:43.

trying? When the government increased the age at which

:30:44.:30:48.

shopkeepers could sell from 16 to 18, we supported it. We don't

:30:49.:30:54.

support a ban on proxy purchasing, we support reasonable measures, but

:30:55.:30:57.

this is unreasonable. This proposal says a lot about the BMA, because

:30:58.:31:03.

this week the BMA also passed a motion to ban the use of E

:31:04.:31:07.

cigarettes in public places. There is no evidence that they are

:31:08.:31:10.

dangerous to health, so why are they doing that? They are becoming a

:31:11.:31:15.

temperance society. This is not about public health, it's an

:31:16.:31:17.

old-fashioned temperance society and they have to get their act together

:31:18.:31:20.

because they are bringing the medical profession into disrepute.

:31:21.:31:26.

We were having argument is about things that people buy large accept,

:31:27.:31:31.

smoking in bars or public places, but the real aim of the BMA was the

:31:32.:31:34.

total banning of cigarettes altogether. This would suggest that

:31:35.:31:40.

that was true to claim that. It s not about a ban, it's about a move

:31:41.:31:43.

to a country where nobody wants to smoke and no one is a smoker. But it

:31:44.:31:49.

would be illegal to smoke. It would be illegal to buy, not smoke, and

:31:50.:31:53.

there's a difference between two. So even if I am born in the year 2 00,

:31:54.:31:59.

it would still be illegal to smoke, just illegal to buy the cigarettes?

:32:00.:32:05.

Indeed. The point being that the habit of smoking is very strongly

:32:06.:32:09.

linked to your ability to buy, so that is why things like Price and

:32:10.:32:12.

availability and marketing are so important. People will flood across

:32:13.:32:18.

the Channel with the cigarettes One thing you will find is that

:32:19.:32:21.

throughout the world people is looking at -- people are looking at

:32:22.:32:24.

the same kind of measures, and different countries like Australia,

:32:25.:32:29.

they were the first with a standardised packaging. Other

:32:30.:32:32.

countries will follow, because all of us are facing the fact that we

:32:33.:32:35.

can't afford to pay for the tragedy. There will be people

:32:36.:32:41.

waiting to flood the market with cigarettes. This is nonsense. Thanks

:32:42.:32:46.

for both coming and going head-to-head.

:32:47.:32:48.

"Unless we have more equal representation, our politics won't

:32:49.:32:52.

be half as good as it should be " So said David Cameron back in 2 09.

:32:53.:32:55.

So how's it going? Well, you can judge the quality

:32:56.:32:58.

of the politics for yourself, but we've been crunching

:32:59.:33:00.

the numbers to find out what parliament might look like after

:33:01.:33:03.

the next year's general election. Here's Giles.

:33:04.:33:07.

Politicians are elected to Parliament to represent their

:33:08.:33:11.

constituents, but the make-up of Parliament does not reflect society

:33:12.:33:17.

well at all the parties it. In 010 more women and ethnic minority

:33:18.:33:19.

candidates entered Westminster but not significantly more inner chamber

:33:20.:33:29.

still dominated by white males. Looking at the current make-up of

:33:30.:33:34.

the Commons, Labour has 83 female MPs, the Conservative have 47 women

:33:35.:33:39.

MPs, which is just over 47% -- and the Lib Dems have 12% of the

:33:40.:33:45.

parties. All of the parties have selected parliaments in those seats

:33:46.:33:49.

where existing MPs are retiring and to fight seats at the next

:33:50.:33:51.

election, and they've all been trying to up the number of women and

:33:52.:33:55.

ethnic minorities because discounts and can be capitalised on. A picture

:33:56.:34:00.

tells a thousand words. Look at the all-male front bench before us. And

:34:01.:34:05.

he says he wants to represent the whole country. Despite the jibe the

:34:06.:34:10.

Labour Party know they have a long way to go on the issue of being

:34:11.:34:12.

representative. So we way to go on the issue of being

:34:13.:34:23.

look at this particular area of lack of women and ethnic minorities.

:34:24.:34:24.

In the most marginal, 40 have women candidates, that would mean if they

:34:25.:34:56.

got just enough to win power, they would have 133 women, which is 1%

:34:57.:35:03.

The Conservatives currently have 305 MPs and their strategy

:35:04.:35:04.

at the next election is to concentrate on their 40 most

:35:05.:35:07.

marginal seats, and the 40 seats most mathematically likely to turn

:35:08.:35:10.

In those 40, 29 candidates have been selected

:35:11.:35:13.

If they kept hold of their existing seats and won those 29 new ones

:35:14.:35:18.

they would have 56 women MPs, around 17%, and up 2% from last time.

:35:19.:35:22.

The Liberal Democrats are fighting to hold on to the 57 seats they won

:35:23.:35:25.

at the last election, if they manage that, they would have

:35:26.:35:28.

However all the indications are it could be

:35:29.:35:33.

a bad night for the Lib Dems, if they lost 20 seats, on a uniform

:35:34.:35:37.

swing it would leave them with just four women, 11% of the party.

:35:38.:35:43.

One Conservative peer who thinks the party needs to look at all

:35:44.:35:46.

options if it's female numbers go down in 2015, says Parliament is

:35:47.:35:49.

The bottom line is, if 50% of our population is not being looked at

:35:50.:36:04.

evenly, are we really using the best of our talent? And yes, women's life

:36:05.:36:11.

experiences are different. They are not superior, they are not inferior.

:36:12.:36:15.

They are different. But surely those life experiences need to be

:36:16.:36:16.

represented here at Westminster So that's the Parliamentary

:36:17.:36:21.

projection for gender, According to the last census

:36:22.:36:22.

in 2011, 13% of people in the UK Labour currently has 16 MPs from

:36:23.:36:28.

black, Asian or minority ethnic backgrounds or just over 6%, if they

:36:29.:36:34.

get their extra 68 seats that figure would go up to 26, 8% of their party

:36:35.:36:37.

were from BAME backgrounds. The Tories currently have 11 BAME

:36:38.:36:41.

candidates, or 4% of the party. If they get an extra 29 seats,

:36:42.:36:48.

that would mean 14 BAME MPs, The Liberal Democrats

:36:49.:36:51.

don't have any BAME MPs. If they manage to cling

:36:52.:37:00.

on to their current number of seats they would have two,

:37:01.:37:05.

giving them a proportion of 4%. If they lost

:37:06.:37:08.

their 20 most vulnerable seats, But even if you changed the mix

:37:09.:37:10.

of gender and ethnicity in Parliament would that solve

:37:11.:37:20.

the problem? Probably not. Only 10% of us have gone to

:37:21.:37:22.

a private fee paid school. A Quarter of all Mps went to Oxford

:37:23.:37:27.

or Cambridge. Only a fifth

:37:28.:37:35.

of us went to any university. There is a huge disillusionment with

:37:36.:37:42.

the political elite due to the fact that these people don't look like

:37:43.:37:46.

us. They don't speak like us, they don't have our experiences and they

:37:47.:37:49.

cannot communicate in a way we relate to. If you look at the

:37:50.:37:54.

turnout, at the moment, if you are an unskilled worker, you are 20

:37:55.:37:57.

points less likely to turn and vote than a middle-class professional and

:37:58.:38:00.

that is getting worse with single election.

:38:01.:38:03.

And that's the key, evidence does suggest that if a

:38:04.:38:05.

Party reflects the society it exists within, it is more likely to get

:38:06.:38:09.

It's just gone 11.35pm, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:38:10.:38:18.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

:38:19.:38:20.

Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll have more from the panel.

:38:21.:38:24.

First though, the Sunday Politics where you are.

:38:25.:38:45.

struggle to fill vacancies, we ask struggle to fill vacancies, we

:38:46.:38:48.

whether the government's NHS reforms whether the government's NHS reforms

:38:49.:38:53.

are working. And for the next 2 minutes and joined by Stephdn Albert

:38:54.:39:00.

and Alison Seabeck. Welcome both of you. House prices are continuing to

:39:01.:39:06.

rise in the region despite talks of a slowdown in the market. The Office

:39:07.:39:13.

for National Statistics figtres show prices are up on last year `nd

:39:14.:39:13.

nearly ten times the averagd salary. nearly ten times the averagd salary.

:39:14.:39:18.

It means it is increasingly difficult for young people to get on

:39:19.:39:23.

the ladder. At the same timd, prices in the capital have risen bx 20 ,

:39:24.:39:29.

fuelling fears we have a London`centric country. Does that

:39:30.:39:30.

matter? I think for those people who are

:39:31.:39:35.

struggling to get on the property ladder here in the South West who

:39:36.:39:41.

are stuck in the hotel of mtm and dad and are in the private rented

:39:42.:39:43.

sector accommodation, what latters is we are not building enough homes

:39:44.:39:48.

as a country, whether in Cornwall, Devon or London. We need to tackle

:39:49.:39:54.

this. We are beginning to sde another inflated housing market We

:39:55.:39:58.

need investment to deliver homes across the country.

:39:59.:40:03.

Will it be enough to build lore homes?

:40:04.:40:07.

It underlines the thing when you only building 100,000 homes every

:40:08.:40:13.

year when you need 230,000 homes. Broken marriages, people living

:40:14.:40:19.

longer, all those things put pressure on housing stock. They have

:40:20.:40:21.

two build more. How could we speak that up? A whole

:40:22.:40:26.

range of reasons why we are not doing that. I have you got. There

:40:27.:40:35.

Developers build quickly will they Developers build quickly will they

:40:36.:40:40.

do get sites. We are looking at land banks and have had to talk `bout

:40:41.:40:45.

Tesco holding enough land for 1 ,000 homes. We need to look at sticks and

:40:46.:40:50.

carrots. The government needs to do lore

:40:51.:40:53.

about the land it is sitting on as well to make that available to

:40:54.:40:57.

developers. I have argued for this in the House of Commons manx times.

:40:58.:41:01.

Where we have speared government land that has been released for

:41:02.:41:05.

development. That is the only way to solve the problem.

:41:06.:41:08.

If we're being honest, is the dream up on former `` the dream of home

:41:09.:41:15.

ownership over? Absolutely not. Thousands of young

:41:16.:41:19.

people want to start a family and get a foot on housing ladder and get

:41:20.:41:23.

that stability and security. We have to be providing their aspir`tions.

:41:24.:41:28.

Importantly, if we don't have enough homes then they cannot read either.

:41:29.:41:35.

We have to move on. GP waithng times are going to become a key election

:41:36.:41:40.

interest. Practices are strtggling to recruit new GPs. Long`term

:41:41.:41:50.

investment has been called for as more shift from hospitals to GP

:41:51.:41:58.

practices. A glimpse into the life of ` rural

:41:59.:42:04.

GP in Cornwall. I visit anywhere between two and 12

:42:05.:42:09.

patients every day. It may click a bit like a scene from

:42:10.:42:17.

the TV series Doc Martin. Come on.

:42:18.:42:21.

Nice to see you. But this GP says the perception from some th`t those

:42:22.:42:24.

in general practice are overpaid and underworked isn't fair.

:42:25.:42:30.

It is not a cushy number. I work 11 or 12 hours a day nonstop. H don't

:42:31.:42:34.

have time to go home for lunch or anything like that and don't know

:42:35.:42:39.

any colleagues that do. I comment on weekends to catch up on

:42:40.:42:42.

administration. I don't think it is a cushy number at all.

:42:43.:42:48.

National campaigns are under way warning of a crisis in general

:42:49.:42:53.

practice. Inadequate funds, too much work load and stress are spoken of.

:42:54.:43:01.

This has traditionally been a sought`after role. You are right by

:43:02.:43:04.

the beach with the countryshde just minutes away. Now there are fears

:43:05.:43:07.

there would be enough peopld willing to take on the role. In message one

:43:08.:43:14.

GP has been highlighting at the British Medical Association

:43:15.:43:15.

conference. The south`west is to be one of the

:43:16.:43:20.

most popular areas for young doctors to be a GP. But there are 441 posts

:43:21.:43:26.

unfilled across the whole of the UK and in the south`west for the first

:43:27.:43:31.

time we have vacancies in Cornwall. That is basically because young

:43:32.:43:34.

doctors are not choosing to be GPs. The reason they are choosing not to

:43:35.:43:38.

as because of the unsustain`ble workload and the pressure any GPs

:43:39.:43:43.

say they are facing in day to day practice.

:43:44.:43:46.

Figures from health education England appeal from 2010 to 20 3

:43:47.:43:52.

100% of GP vacancies were fhlled. But this year that figure is at 93%.

:43:53.:43:59.

If you look at training vac`ncies, it is at 82%.

:44:00.:44:04.

Recruitment in general practice goes in cycles and we're reaching the

:44:05.:44:07.

bottom of the cycle at the loment. The difficulty is knowing whether it

:44:08.:44:11.

will go up again because it is becoming increasingly unattractive

:44:12.:44:13.

for people to come into. Patients here are unsatisfidd ``

:44:14.:44:20.

still satisfied with their service. I don't go to the doctor is very

:44:21.:44:24.

often and whenever I have to go like today when I am on holiday, it is

:44:25.:44:28.

nice to know you can get thd appointment and go when you need to

:44:29.:44:30.

see them. For my age, they have always helped

:44:31.:44:39.

me and it has been really good. Very valuable job. Ministers have

:44:40.:44:43.

been warned this is coming `t a cost.

:44:44.:44:47.

Six out of ten of them are looking to retire, their workload is unsafe

:44:48.:44:56.

and they failed their unabld to provide the service issued.

:44:57.:44:59.

The government is increasing trainees still GPs grow faster than

:45:00.:45:02.

the number of the population. They are also looking to better retain

:45:03.:45:07.

existing GPs and see robust plans are being put in place to m`ke sure

:45:08.:45:12.

that places are filled up the next couple of years.

:45:13.:45:16.

This seems a worrying trend, unfilled vacancies. Nobody wants to

:45:17.:45:22.

wait longer. These things can be cyclical.

:45:23.:45:28.

Overall, the has just said enough is enotgh.

:45:29.:47:17.

The people we spoke to wear seeing that they were struggling and the

:47:18.:47:20.

hours were getting longer. Can anything be done about that

:47:21.:47:25.

Since the coalition came in, a third of those targets have been scrapped.

:47:26.:47:30.

We need to constantly look `t whether the administrative burden on

:47:31.:47:36.

the GPs as appropriate. One third of them have gone. A whole bunch of

:47:37.:47:42.

commissioning staff has arrhved That is no means all of thel but it

:47:43.:47:49.

has an extra burden so it is about understanding the motives for each

:47:50.:47:53.

individual person. You didn't actually support the

:47:54.:47:58.

government's NHS reforms Bill. You didn't vote for it?

:47:59.:48:02.

No, he didn't. What were yot concerned about?

:48:03.:48:06.

Fragmentation of services which is something we will come onto.

:48:07.:48:10.

Is this causing some of the pressures we are finding, not just a

:48:11.:48:15.

GP services but in hospitals. CT scans waiting times... Is a part of

:48:16.:48:20.

the problem is vacancies within the Department.

:48:21.:48:23.

You are exactly right and that is why I didn't support the reforms.

:48:24.:48:29.

People want to know when thdy go to the GP or to the hospital that they

:48:30.:48:33.

are getting a good service but they're not concerned who provides

:48:34.:48:35.

the service. At the reforms gone wrong? What we

:48:36.:48:41.

are seeing is that some of the outsourcing and less complex is

:48:42.:48:51.

adding an extra area of burden. There are also more complic`ted We

:48:52.:48:57.

generated savings that we could use to put into GP services.

:48:58.:49:03.

?78 million puts a lot `` sdems like a lot.

:49:04.:49:04.

It is a lot. What would you do? And the reforms?

:49:05.:49:14.

We have spoken about repealhng some of the changes because we are

:49:15.:49:17.

convinced they are not all working. We need to look at it very carefully

:49:18.:49:22.

but on balance it is confushng for patients and for those in the health

:49:23.:49:27.

economy. Stephen touched upon this. We heard

:49:28.:49:36.

this week that NHS services could be privatised. The more profit`ble

:49:37.:49:40.

operations that can be taken away from the NHS but then that leaves

:49:41.:49:45.

the NHS with expensive things like triple heart bypass is. These

:49:46.:49:48.

companies are reaping the bdnefits from that.

:49:49.:49:52.

The benefits to the economy if you're paying private organhsations

:49:53.:50:01.

is that the money doesn't go into the NHS. So then the manager doesn't

:50:02.:50:10.

find the money for the more complex operations. I have spoken ott

:50:11.:50:15.

against them and said I don't want to see this as a direction of

:50:16.:50:20.

travel. Allowing private, and is to come into our NHS and cherrx picked

:50:21.:50:26.

the low hanging fruit to divide the services is not what patients want.

:50:27.:50:30.

Never did introduce an elemdnt of competition into the NHS and I think

:50:31.:50:33.

there is a role for private providers.

:50:34.:50:37.

You did start this. Do you think Labour started something th`t they

:50:38.:50:40.

now cannot turn the tap off of? Waiting lists worse so cute when we

:50:41.:50:51.

`` saw huge when we started. What I'm not clear about in terms of what

:50:52.:50:57.

is proposed in Cornwall is whether people would also be encour`ged to

:50:58.:51:03.

pay to jump the queue. That is an entirely different kettle of fish. I

:51:04.:51:10.

think we should oppose it. You wants to be able to get speedy

:51:11.:51:14.

treatment that is effective. You shouldn't have to pay for it. And

:51:15.:51:19.

you should be able to do so anyway that doesn't damage the NHS. I think

:51:20.:51:28.

what has been proposed meets those tests.

:51:29.:51:31.

We welcome back to this in different week. It is all change at the

:51:32.:51:36.

European Parliament this wedk as the MEPs have lost their seats love out

:51:37.:51:42.

to make way for the crock of new politicians. Green Watson whll now

:51:43.:51:47.

be leaving the European Parliament after 20 years of services `nd the

:51:48.:51:52.

region's first Green MEP gets to grips with her new job.

:51:53.:51:57.

We joined them. European politics isn't meant to be a stroll hn the

:51:58.:52:02.

park. But the Southwest's fhrst Green Euro MP is keen to walk when

:52:03.:52:10.

ever possible. Her first appointment as in Brussels. She is being lobbied

:52:11.:52:16.

to take control of EU funds for the county.

:52:17.:52:20.

How did it go? It was reallx good actually. I think there was a real

:52:21.:52:24.

meeting of minds in there. H don't see why this proposal to take power

:52:25.:52:28.

away from Cornwall has come forward because it doesn't seem any of it in

:52:29.:52:31.

Cornwall has come forward bdcause it doesn't seem any budding cornel so

:52:32.:52:37.

obviously there is some problem with Whitehall trying to take power of

:52:38.:52:40.

something which really should belong in the regions.

:52:41.:52:43.

Next up, her first green group meeting.

:52:44.:52:47.

These are Green MEPs and it is nice to be any big group of greens. I

:52:48.:52:51.

feel at home. Somebody who has felt at hole here

:52:52.:52:55.

for 20 years as green Watson. He has led the liberal group and sdrved on

:52:56.:53:01.

many a committee. But not for much longer. Everywhere he goes, old

:53:02.:53:09.

friends and colleagues of corrupt sympathy.

:53:10.:53:12.

How are you? Good to see you. I'm sorry to hear.

:53:13.:53:21.

Very kind of you. That's politics. I think the process of moving on is

:53:22.:53:28.

not a bad one. It started thinking a fresh. I hope I will be abld to

:53:29.:53:32.

carry the experience what I have had their into what I do next. One thing

:53:33.:53:39.

I want to miss is the kind of modern art which is on the walls. H'm not

:53:40.:53:43.

sure when it comes from but it is not always... If you take this piece

:53:44.:53:49.

for example, of the most inspired design. These are my offices. This

:53:50.:53:57.

is my assistant from Estoni`. This is where I have generally works from

:53:58.:54:04.

and you can see it is full of packing cases. I suppose thhs is one

:54:05.:54:09.

particular memento. This is my 0th birthday when I was leader of the

:54:10.:54:12.

Liberal Democrat group and was honoured to have the presiddnt of

:54:13.:54:15.

the game commission and the then president of the Rabin Parlhament to

:54:16.:54:21.

celebrate my with me. I havd had a few laughs as I have come across

:54:22.:54:24.

papers and things I had forgotten about entirely. Inevitably, a few

:54:25.:54:30.

regrets too. As I have come across mementos of friends or colldagues

:54:31.:54:36.

who've moved on. I think thd process of moving on is not a bad one. It

:54:37.:54:43.

started thinking a fresh, thinking in different ways. I take the view

:54:44.:54:47.

that you move on and you move on to new things. If you have a sdtback,

:54:48.:54:54.

as I have had at the polls, you pick yourself up, dust yourself off and

:54:55.:54:58.

start all over again as the old song says.

:54:59.:55:04.

One in 18 is the curse of bding a politician. But the Lib Dems did

:55:05.:55:11.

lose green Watson and others. Does that worry you ahead of the general

:55:12.:55:14.

election? I think there is no doubt that was a

:55:15.:55:18.

bad night for the Liberal Ddmocrats when we had the European eldctions.

:55:19.:55:22.

Personally, I am gutted that we have lost a grim because he has served

:55:23.:55:28.

the South West with distinction He has been a really hard`workhng MEP

:55:29.:55:32.

and it would be remiss of us not to remark on that as we talk about him.

:55:33.:55:37.

Neither Alison or I went into this profession thinking about job

:55:38.:55:41.

security. You think about some things you want to change and hope

:55:42.:55:44.

they can carry the public whki. We were very excited about the

:55:45.:55:50.

European elections and therd was a certain amount of Farage fever. How

:55:51.:55:59.

will that impact the general election?

:56:00.:56:03.

I think it will be back on the NHS and the economy. A number of things

:56:04.:56:08.

will have happened prior to the general election, one assumds, given

:56:09.:56:12.

the government's current programme. It will already be less of `n issue.

:56:13.:56:17.

It is not being discussed on the door in the same way that w`s in the

:56:18.:56:21.

run`up to the elections. I would like to put on record that H think

:56:22.:56:26.

Graham was a very good MEP. He will be missed and we now have clear mood

:56:27.:56:33.

either. You kept were doing well. W`s it

:56:34.:56:42.

that people were voting abott immigration?

:56:43.:56:47.

There were all sorts of things going on. There was a huge dissathsfaction

:56:48.:56:50.

with the establishment. There were people seeing, we just want to give

:56:51.:56:56.

you a kicking. Some people `ctually seeing that to us. Letting xou know.

:56:57.:57:02.

But they been tempted to sax but we will vote as we always used to vote

:57:03.:57:06.

in the general election. Th`t will be interesting to see if th`t shift

:57:07.:57:11.

back happens. We are picking it up on the doorstep already. UKHP have

:57:12.:57:21.

gone remarkably private. `` quiet.

:57:22.:57:26.

I've Lib Dems doing enough because you will be campaigning with this in

:57:27.:57:30.

mind? Immigration still comes up on the

:57:31.:57:33.

doorstep but the town of debate when I speak people has changed. It is

:57:34.:57:44.

very about the vision of thd future. What are the Liberal Democr`ts

:57:45.:57:47.

seeing about the next five xears? Meeting education services better,

:57:48.:57:52.

the health service providing poor people, the economy continuhng to

:57:53.:57:57.

grow. To coin a phrase from Bill Clinton's collection team, H think

:57:58.:58:01.

it will be the economy, stupid, again.

:58:02.:58:10.

Emigration will be one of a bunch of concerns.

:58:11.:58:14.

It is interesting. I have h`d lots of conversations on the doorstep and

:58:15.:58:21.

we are having more constructive and productive discussions about

:58:22.:58:24.

immigration. How does it work? The business in Plymouth who is

:58:25.:58:36.

employing foreigners, why are they doing that? Because they can employ

:58:37.:58:46.

locally. If they went to thd wall because they simply couldn't find

:58:47.:58:49.

people to do that rather unpleasant smelly work, what would happen? Is

:58:50.:58:55.

that therefore unacceptable use of labour from outside the UK? Those

:58:56.:59:00.

sorts of discussions you have got to have.

:59:01.:59:05.

It is time for our regular roundup of the political week in 60 seconds.

:59:06.:59:17.

Complaints over lack of mobhle phone coverage in the region. The

:59:18.:59:20.

government may force operators to share masts.

:59:21.:59:25.

It is ridiculous and 2014 that you cannot make a call on your lobile

:59:26.:59:28.

phone from your own home or from your business.

:59:29.:59:34.

60 jobs were lost as Miller Weisman closed its depot.

:59:35.:59:40.

The regions new privatised patient transport services where crhticise

:59:41.:59:47.

over long delays and sometiles not turning up.

:59:48.:59:50.

It was the stress and attention I was standing on the doorstep waiting

:59:51.:59:54.

to come in and never came. In response, NSL says it is doing

:59:55.:59:55.

OK. The service is good, fit for

:59:56.:00:02.

purpose. Most patients, the vast majority, I getting a very good

:00:03.:00:07.

service. Can we improve? Absolutely. And the governmdnt has

:00:08.:00:11.

defended its plans to scrap the independent team monitoring badger

:00:12.:00:16.

cull is. It says it will sthll use animal welfare experts.

:00:17.:00:23.

A quick roundup of the week. Mobile phones. The countryside Allhance

:00:24.:00:26.

says it has been overwhelmed with complaints about lack of signal in

:00:27.:00:29.

the region. The government hs considering making phone colpanies

:00:30.:00:33.

share masts. Good idea? Brilliant idea. Ht is

:00:34.:00:38.

interesting how the debate over mobile phone masts has changed from

:00:39.:00:44.

Adi a health hazard to why don't I have reception? It is compldtely

:00:45.:00:51.

bonkers that we don't have sufficient coverage and people

:00:52.:00:55.

actively getting systems. It is a total no`brainer. Most

:00:56.:01:00.

ordinary people would ask why hasn't something been done about this so

:01:01.:01:03.

far. That is the programme. Thanks to my

:01:04.:01:10.

guests. Before we had you b`ck to Andrew with the week ahead, don t

:01:11.:01:13.

forget you can check out our Facebook page and watch the

:01:14.:01:18.

programme again by the iPlaxer or e`mail us. Do enjoy the rest of your

:01:19.:01:24.

Sunday afternoon. might come back at you. There have

:01:25.:01:27.

been problems elsewhere in Europe, but I take your point. Thanks to

:01:28.:01:31.

both of you today. Back to you, Andrew.

:01:32.:01:36.

Now, there have been some less-than-helpful remarks

:01:37.:01:38.

about the way the Labour party makes policy, and they've come

:01:39.:01:41.

from the man who is heading Labour's Policy Review, Jon Cruddas.

:01:42.:01:46.

In a speech to party activists he was recorded saying that,

:01:47.:01:49.

"instrumentalised, cynical nuggets of policy to chime with our focus

:01:50.:01:52.

groups and our press strategies and our desire for a topline in terms of

:01:53.:01:55.

the 24 hour media cycle, dominate and crowd out any

:01:56.:01:58.

He added that Labour's election strategy was being hampered by a

:01:59.:02:08.

The shadow chancellor, Ed Balls was asked about what Mr Cruddas had

:02:09.:02:21.

I talked to him a couple of days ago, and he's not frustrated, he is

:02:22.:02:30.

excited about his policy agenda He is frustrated that one report of 250

:02:31.:02:37.

pages gets reduced down. So it's our fault? That is the way we live in

:02:38.:02:43.

the world in which we live, but we have big ideas about devolution

:02:44.:02:47.

long term infrastructure spending and new manufacturing policy, new

:02:48.:02:51.

investment in skills, big changes which, let's be honest, I'm really

:02:52.:02:58.

on George Osborne's agenda. How serious is this? It is Wimbledon, so

:02:59.:03:04.

let's call it an unforced error You go to the party speeches, and you

:03:05.:03:08.

don't know who is in the audience. There is no need for something as

:03:09.:03:11.

serious as this to happen. It's hugely serious because it speaks

:03:12.:03:14.

about something people have felt for a long time, that they have doled

:03:15.:03:18.

out little nuggets of policy but no overarching story. There was a quite

:03:19.:03:22.

saying the Ed Miliband has given as a shopping list, not a narrative.

:03:23.:03:27.

When people in the party say things that are true, it's very difficult

:03:28.:03:31.

for people to explain it away. Not sure Mr Miliband can win here. He

:03:32.:03:35.

was recently criticised for not having policies. Now he's being

:03:36.:03:39.

criticised for having too many. I think this line of attack is

:03:40.:03:42.

particularly wounding because he prides himself on being a politician

:03:43.:03:45.

of ideas. That is his unique selling point, and the weight that David

:03:46.:03:52.

Cameron's prime ministerial nature is his selling point. So it is

:03:53.:03:56.

wounding. If I was the Labour Party, before announcing any policy, I

:03:57.:04:02.

would ask can help fix us on the economy? It might be radicalised

:04:03.:04:05.

immolating on its own terms, but it's politically useless. -- radical

:04:06.:04:11.

and innovative on its own terms I don't think any member of the public

:04:12.:04:14.

does not think they are not radical enough or creative enough. If

:04:15.:04:18.

anything, it's the opposite. They are a bit nervous about what a

:04:19.:04:21.

Labour government could do and nervous about the economic

:04:22.:04:24.

reputation. Reassurance, caution, maybe a bit of timidity might be the

:04:25.:04:30.

notions that inform their policies or should inform their policies in

:04:31.:04:35.

night -- my view, not the opposite. I am worried for Jon Cruddas,

:04:36.:04:38.

because anyone who questions the Labour Party are part of the nexus

:04:39.:04:42.

of the banking industry who are terrified of a Labour victory. It's

:04:43.:04:46.

interesting that this goes to the heart of the debate in the Labour

:04:47.:04:49.

Party, at the highest levels, do they put a big offer to the British

:04:50.:04:54.

people, or a little off, John Cruddas offer, or Douglas Alexander

:04:55.:04:59.

offer? Ed Miliband says that his ideas about freezing energy prices

:05:00.:05:04.

and rent controls are a big offer, but his policy chief clearly has

:05:05.:05:07.

real concerns that they don't go far enough. How important a figure is

:05:08.:05:13.

John Cruddas in the project? He is hell of the -- head of the policy

:05:14.:05:17.

review and has a huge amount of power, and so him slagging off the

:05:18.:05:21.

policy review is a bad moment. He is trusted in that inner circle and the

:05:22.:05:26.

problem for Ed Miliband from the odd is that he has people with strong

:05:27.:05:30.

opinions, Maurice clasping is another, big thinkers, but they

:05:31.:05:34.

maybe don't have a precaution that a professional politician might have

:05:35.:05:38.

in terms of giving bland answers. So, David Cameron had to apologise

:05:39.:05:42.

after his former director of communications was convicted

:05:43.:05:45.

of phone hacking. David Cameron's other former friend,

:05:46.:05:47.

Rebekah Brooks, had a better day. At the same trial, she was cleared

:05:48.:05:50.

of all the charges against her. I take full responsibility for

:05:51.:06:00.

employing Andy Coulson. I did some on the basis of undertakings I was

:06:01.:06:04.

given by him about phone hacking and those turned out not to be the case.

:06:05.:06:07.

I always said that if they turned out to be wrong, I would make a full

:06:08.:06:11.

and frank apology, and I do that today. I am extremely sorry that I

:06:12.:06:16.

employed him. It was the wrong decision. I'm clear about that. When

:06:17.:06:21.

I was arrested it was in the middle of a maelstrom of controversy,

:06:22.:06:25.

politics and of comment. Some of that was there, but much of it was

:06:26.:06:31.

not, so I'm grateful to the jury for coming to that decision. Not been a

:06:32.:06:39.

great week for David Cameron. Andy Coulson found guilty, and another

:06:40.:06:43.

person who had worked in Downing Street is also charged on an

:06:44.:06:49.

unrelated issue. And he was 26- on the wrong end in Brussels, and there

:06:50.:06:52.

is a poll this morning which no one seems to be talking about which puts

:06:53.:06:56.

Labour nine points ahead. Before all that there was Dominic Cummings

:06:57.:06:59.

criticising the Downing Street operation is being shambolic. Is Mr

:07:00.:07:04.

Cameron's judgement becoming an issue? Yes, what often happens when

:07:05.:07:08.

one leader is under pressure for long enough, as Ed Miliband has been

:07:09.:07:11.

the six months, we get bored. We then switch the Gatling gun to the

:07:12.:07:16.

other guy. So David Cameron going into the Conference season might be

:07:17.:07:19.

the man under pressure. The whole Andy Coulson saga has raised

:07:20.:07:22.

questions about his judgement and those around him, but any political

:07:23.:07:26.

damage she was going to sustain over Andy Coulson and phone hacking was

:07:27.:07:29.

sustained years ago -- he was going. It was Brother beyond the

:07:30.:07:32.

date the News of the World was closed down three summers ago - it

:07:33.:07:38.

was probably on the date. As the hacking trial cut through to the

:07:39.:07:44.

general public? Or is it just as media and political obsessives? I am

:07:45.:07:47.

sure it has cut through in some way but it didn't necessarily happen in

:07:48.:07:51.

recent days, more likely in recent years. It was some time ago that

:07:52.:07:55.

Andy Coulson resigned in high profile circumstances. It has had a

:07:56.:07:59.

slow burning effect over a few years, and the Prime Minister fears

:08:00.:08:04.

the Big Bang. But there is one theme and words that unites this week with

:08:05.:08:08.

Juncker and Andy Coulson, and that is that the Prime Minister can be

:08:09.:08:12.

lackadaisical. He was lackadaisical in not asking big question is when

:08:13.:08:15.

there was a lot in the public domain about what had happened that the

:08:16.:08:18.

News of the World. And he was lackadaisical with Juncker. He made

:08:19.:08:22.

a calculation that Angela Merkel would support him and it turned out

:08:23.:08:27.

she couldn't. Maybe he needs to change. He was late in understanding

:08:28.:08:31.

what was happening in Germany when both the Christian Democrats, her

:08:32.:08:32.

party, wanted Juncker, and when the both the Christian Democrats, her

:08:33.:09:13.

the Prime Minister and in which Mr Miliband has a bigger lead in the

:09:14.:09:16.

polls than he has had some time so he must be wondering why they are

:09:17.:09:20.

having a go at him. He made a tactical error in Prime Minister's

:09:21.:09:23.

Questions by asking all the questions about Andy Coulson. The

:09:24.:09:24.

one at the end questions about Andy Coulson. The

:09:25.:10:36.

is getting involved in this questions about Andy Coulson. The

:10:37.:10:40.

question mark on the issue of grammar schools is not clear anybody

:10:41.:10:46.

listened to him. I think it is a principal problem. I've spoken to

:10:47.:10:49.

form a government members, and judging by what they say, if

:10:50.:10:53.

anything we underestimate how much contacting makes with ministers And

:10:54.:10:56.

how many representations he makes on the issue that interest him. There

:10:57.:11:02.

has been an attempt to keep it hidden. It's almost a theological

:11:03.:11:05.

question about whether the future monarch should be involved in the

:11:06.:11:10.

public realm. If he wants to influence policy, shouldn't we know

:11:11.:11:13.

what policy he's trying to influence and what position he is taking?

:11:14.:11:19.

Sewer speech is better than private one-on-one lobbying. Possibly - so

:11:20.:11:24.

a speech. Prince Charles's views are interesting. He's not a straight

:11:25.:11:28.

down the light reactionary. He makes a left-wing case for rammer schools.

:11:29.:11:32.

There is an interview with him in the Financial Times in which his

:11:33.:11:37.

argument in favour for architectural development takes into account

:11:38.:11:41.

affordable housing in the wake which no one would have suspected. He has

:11:42.:11:43.

interesting views, but I'm not convinced on the point of principle

:11:44.:11:48.

whether someone is dashing his position should be speaking. Your

:11:49.:11:52.

former employer 's famously described him as the SDP king. You

:11:53.:11:59.

slightly feel sorry for him. He s 66 and still an apprentice. He's in a

:12:00.:12:06.

difficult position. We know what the powers of the monarch are. They are

:12:07.:12:10.

to advise in courage and warned the Prime Minister of the day. These in

:12:11.:12:13.

the difficult position where the problem for him is that there is a

:12:14.:12:16.

line that isn't really defined, but you slightly feel he just gets a bit

:12:17.:12:21.

too close to it and possibly crosses that line with the lobbying that

:12:22.:12:26.

goes on. I think the worrying thing is that at some point he will become

:12:27.:12:30.

King and will he know that he has got to work within that framework?

:12:31.:12:35.

He is somebody that cannot win either. If he doesn't take an

:12:36.:12:38.

interest in public policy, he will be thought to be a bit of a waster,

:12:39.:12:43.

going round opening town halls, and when he does have an interest we

:12:44.:12:46.

think, hey, you are in the monarchy, stay out. There's an interesting

:12:47.:12:51.

parallel with first ladies who are encouraged to find a controversial

:12:52.:12:56.

charitable project. Michelle Obama has bought childhood obesity, and

:12:57.:13:01.

that is the standard thing. Everybody knows that that is a bad

:13:02.:13:04.

thing, but you are not offering solutions that are party political.

:13:05.:13:08.

I feel there must be a middle way with what he should be able to do

:13:09.:13:12.

about finding big causes he can complain about without getting stuck

:13:13.:13:16.

into lobbying ministers. Which can become a party political issue. He

:13:17.:13:19.

has had some influence on architecture, because the buildings

:13:20.:13:22.

we are putting up to date are better than the ones we used to put up

:13:23.:13:24.

The Daily Politics is on BBC 2 at 11:00am

:13:25.:13:29.

We'll be back here at the same time next week.

:13:30.:13:34.

Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

:13:35.:13:38.

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