Browse content similar to 21/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning from Manchester, where the Labour Party are gathering | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
for their annual conference as British politics `djusts to what | :00:13. | :00:14. | |
the rest of the UK. in Scotland might mean for | :00:15. | :00:53. | |
Scotland's decision to vote 'no means more powers heading norph | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
But what about Home Rule for England? | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
Independence for Scotland has been his life's work. Alex Salmond tells | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
us why he is stepping `own afper losing Thursday's vote. And wa've | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
In the South West. people who want to be Labour | :01:17. | :01:28. | |
The Conservatives who think Cameron has promised the Scots too luch | :01:29. | :01:30. | |
And councils are told to provide more official sites for gypsies | :01:31. | :01:32. | |
powers and more freedom to spand. But what is the next devolution step | :01:33. | :01:45. | |
for the capital? With me, the best and brightest political panel in the | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
business, at least that is what they pay me to say every week. Nick Watt, | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
Helen Lewis and, this week, we have done some devolution ourselves to | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
other areas, and we have Sam Coates from the times. The union survived, | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
but only at the cost of more powers for the Scottish parliament and | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
enshrining the formula that gives Scotland a privileged position when | :02:08. | :02:08. | |
it comes Scotland a privileged position when | :02:09. | :02:17. | |
of in arms. The Scottish question has been answered for now. Suddenly, | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
the English question takes centre stage, doesn't it? Absolutely. It | :02:22. | :02:31. | |
has a grubby feel, when that vow was put to the Scottish people, that | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
they hoped would swing the vote there was nothing about English only | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
votes. It was unconditional? The Tory proposal did talk very core | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
justly about looking at the proposals by a former clerk of the | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
House of Commons that looked at this issue. That was very cautious. - | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
cautiously. issue. That was very cautious. - | :02:53. | :04:52. | |
English laws? Ed Miliband this morning was saying how London MPs | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
get to vote on London transport and English MPs don't outside of London | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
and it is confusing, but Labour is in a difficult position. They were | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
before the Prime Minister made his announcement. The yes side triumphed | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
in Glasgow, the largest city in Scotland, a Labour heartland, and | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
the Prime Minister is saying that if Labour don't agree to this by the | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
time of the general election, he is handing a gift to the SNP, that that | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
would be the party that the natural Labour voters would vote for to see | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
off the plan. It's not just Tory backbenchers. There are Labour | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
backbenchers saying there should be in which bodes for English laws | :05:30. | :05:31. | |
Even people in the Shadow Cabinet think it is right. The cases | :05:32. | :05:38. | |
unarguable. If you say her chewing a partisan way, you can't sell it to | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
the country. Ed Miliband is on course to have a majority of about | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
20, and you take the 40 English MPs, and he hasn't got it. This is a | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
coalition government where the Conservatives haven't got really to | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
be in charge, they have put in sweeping laws. Labour should | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
probably take the bullet on this one. Let's leave it for the moment. | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
But don't go away. As they struggle to keep the United Kingdom in one | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
piece, David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg promised to keep | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
something called the Barnett Formula. | :06:14. | :06:15. | |
It wasn't invented in Barnet, but by man called Joel Barnett. | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
And it's how the UK government decides how much | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
public money to spend in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. | :06:22. | :06:23. | |
It's controversial, because it's led to public spending | :06:24. | :06:25. | |
being typically 20% higher in Scotland than in England. | :06:26. | :06:27. | |
Well, some English MPs aren't happy about that. | :06:28. | :06:29. | |
I'm joined now by the Tory MP Dominic Raab. | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics. How can the Prime Minister scrap the | :06:37. | :06:44. | |
Barnett Formula when he has just about to keep it on the front page | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
of a major Scottish newspaper? If we are going to see financial | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
devolution to Scotland, more powers of tax and spend, it's impossible | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
not to look at the impact on the wider union, and there have been | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
promises made to the Scottish and we should do our best to deliver them, | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
but there have been promises made to the English, Welsh and Northern | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
Irish. If you look at the Barnett Formula which allocates revenue | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
across the UK, it is massively prejudicial to those other parts. We | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
have double the number of ambulance staff and nurses compared to | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
England. The regional breakdown is more stark with double the amount | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
spent on social housing in Scotland than in Yorkshire and the North West | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
and the Midlands. The Welsh do very poorly on social services for the | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
elderly. What are we saying? That they need our children, patients and | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
the elderly are worth less than the Scots? That's not the way to have a | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
sustainable solution. I understand the distribution impact of the | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
Barnett Formula, but Westminster politicians are already held in | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
contempt by a lot of people and to rat on such a public pledge would | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
confirm their worst fears. Your leader would have secured the union | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
on a false prospectus. First of all, it's clear from the Ashcroft | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
poll that the offer made in the Scottish newspaper had zero effect | :08:06. | :08:08. | |
and if anything was counter-productive to the overall | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
result because two thirds of swing voters in the last few days voted | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
for independence. But we can't keep proceeding without looking at the | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
promises made to the English. We said in the referendum that we would | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
have English laws -- English votes on English issues. The Liberal | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
Democrats, in their manifesto, pledged to scrap the Barnett | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
Formula. We have to reconcile all of the promises to all parts of the UK, | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
and Alex Salmond talks about a Westminster stitch up, but what he's | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
trying to do is, with gross double standards, is in French stitch up in | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
rapid time, which would be grossly unfair to the rest of the rest of UK | :08:46. | :08:54. | |
-- is contrive stitch up. What is unfair about the current spending | :08:55. | :08:56. | |
formula? The extra money Scotland gets from Barnet, is covered by the | :08:57. | :09:05. | |
oil revenues it sends to London Scotland is only getting back on | :09:06. | :09:07. | |
spending what it pays in tax. There is no analysis out there that | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
suggests it is the same amount. Having voted to stay in the UK. Let | :09:11. | :09:18. | |
me give you the figures. Last year revenues were 4.5 billion, and the | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
Barnett Formula was worth 4.5 billion to Scotland. It is awash. A | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
huge amount of British taxpayer investment has gone into extracting | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
North Sea oil, and if we move to a more federal system, we would need | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
to look at things like the allocation of resources, but the | :09:39. | :09:40. | |
Barnett Formula has been lambasted as a national embarrassment and | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
grossly unfair by its Labour Party architect, Lord Barnett. So what we | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
need is to change this mechanism so it is based on need. The irony is, | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
when the Scots allocate Avenue to the -- revenue to their local | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
authorities, it's done on a needs basis, and what is good for Scotland | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
must be good for the rest of Britain. One final question. The | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
Prime Minister is now making his promise of more home rule for | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
Scotland conditional on English votes for English laws. Why didn't | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
he spell out the condition when he made his bow to the Scottish people? | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
Why has this condition been tacked on by the Prime Minister? In the | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
heat of the referendum debate lots of things were said, but the truth | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
is that Parliament must also look at this and make its views known, and | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
English MPs as well. You will find that conservative as well as a lot | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
of Labour MPs would say, we cannot just rush through a deal that is | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
unsustainable. It has to be good for all parts of Britain. Yes, we should | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
deliver on our promises for more devolution to Scotland, but let s | :10:48. | :10:49. | |
deliver on promises to be English, and Northern Irish. Why are they | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
locked out of the debate? Let's leave it there. Thank you for | :10:55. | :10:56. | |
joining us. The man responsible | :10:57. | :10:58. | |
for taking Scottish nationalism from the political fringes to within | :10:59. | :11:00. | |
touching distance of victory, Alex Salmond, has a flair for dramatic | :11:01. | :11:02. | |
announcements, and he gave us another on Friday | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
when he revealed he's to stand Friends and foes have paid tribute | :11:06. | :11:07. | |
to his extraordinary career. In a moment I'll be speaking to | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
Alex Salmond, but first here's Adam Fleming with | :11:13. | :11:14. | |
the story of the vote that broke The BBC's HQ on the Clyde, the whole | :11:15. | :11:37. | |
place converted into a studio for Scotland's big night. You know what | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
you need for big events, big screens, and there are loads of them | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
here. That one is three stories high, and this is the one Jeremy | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
Vine uses for his graphics. The other thing that is massive is the | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
turnout in the referendum, it is enormous. It was around 85% of the | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
electorate, that is 4 million ballot papers. First to declare | :11:58. | :12:08. | |
Clackmannanshire. No, 19,000. 1 ,000 and 36. The first Noel of the night, | :12:09. | :12:15. | |
and there were plenty more. -- the first no vote. The better together | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
campaigners were over the moon, like Jim Murphy, who had campaigned in | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
100 different towns. I don't want to sound schmaltzy, but it makes you | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
think more of Scotland. It makes you small tree. Yes, 194,779. Around | :12:29. | :12:38. | |
five a.m., the Yes campaign applauded as they won Scotland's | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
biggest city, Glasgow. Dundee went their way as well, but just for | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
areas out of 32 opted for independence. How many copies have | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
you had? This is my second cup of tea on the morning -- how many | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
copies. He was enjoying the refreshments on offer, but the yes | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
campaigners were not in a happy place. We are in the bowels of one | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
of the parts of the British establishment that, I've got to say, | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
has probably done its job in this referendum, because I think the BBC | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
has been critical in shoring up the establishment and have supported the | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
no campaign as best as they could. But there was no arguing with the | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
numbers, and by sunrise, the BBC called it. Scotland has voted no in | :13:25. | :13:32. | |
this referendum on independence The result, in Fife, has taken the no | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
campaign over the line and the official result of this referendum | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
is a no. There we go, on a screen three stories high, Scotland has | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
said no to independence. As soon as the newsprint was driving north of | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
the border, the focus shifted south as the Prime Minister pledged more | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
devolution for Scotland but only if it happened everywhere else as well. | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
Just as Scotland will vote separately in the Scottish | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
Parliament on their issues of tax, spending on welfare, so to England, | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
as well as Wales and Northern Ireland, should be able to vote on | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
these issues, and all this must take place in tandem with and at the same | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
pace as the settlement for Scotland. It began to dawn on us all that we | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
might end up doing this again. See you for an English referendum soon? | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
Northern Ireland. There could be another one in Scotland. But not | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
next weekend? Give me a break. There was no break for Nick, because Alex | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
Salmond came up with one last twist, his resignation was as leader, my | :14:40. | :14:46. | |
time is nearly over. But the Scotland, the campaign continues, | :14:47. | :14:53. | |
and the dream shall never die. So, the referendum settled, the | :14:54. | :14:56. | |
Constitution in flux, and a leader gone. All in a night work. | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
Alex Salmond is to stand down as First Minister of Scotland. He shows | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
no signs of going quietly. Last night, I spoke to the SNP leader in | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
Aberdeen and began by asking him if it was always his intention to | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
resign if he lost the referendum. I certainly have thought about it | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
Andrew. But for most of the referendum campaign I thought we | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
were going to win. So, I was... Yeah, maybe a few months back I | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
considered it. But I only finally made up my mind on Friday lunch | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
time. Did you agonise over the decision to stand down? I'm not | :15:38. | :15:46. | |
really an agonising person. When you get beaten in a referendum, you have | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
to consider standing down as a real possibility. Taking responsibility | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
and politics has gone out of fashion but there is an aspect, if you need | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
a campaign, and I was the leader of the Yes Campaign, and you don't win, | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
you have to contemplate if you are the best person to lead future | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
political campaigns. In my judgement, it was time for the SNP | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
and the broader yes movement, the National movement of Scotland, they | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
would benefit from new leadership. In your heart of hearts, through the | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
campaign, as referendum on day approached, you did think you were | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
going to win? Yes, I did. I thought for most of the last month of the | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
campaign, we were in with a real chance. In the last week I thought | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
we had pulled ahead. I thought the decisive aspect wasn't so much the | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
fear mongering, the scaremongering, the kitchen sink being thrown at | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
Scotland by orchestration from Downing Street, I thought the real | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
thing was the pledge, the vow, the offer of something else. A lot of | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
people that had been moving across to independence saw within that a | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
reason to say, well, we can get something anyway without the | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
perceived risks that were being festooned upon them. You were only | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
five points away from your dream. You won Scotland's largest city | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
There is now the prospect of more power. Why not stay and be an | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
enhanced First Minister? Well, it is a good phrase. I'm not going away, | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
though. I'm still going to be part of the political process. In | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
Scotland, if people in Aberdeenshire wish to keep electing me, that is | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
what I will do. But I don't have to be First Minister of Scotland, | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
leader of the Yes Campaign, to see that achieved. The SNP is a strong | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
and powerful leadership team. There are a number of people that would do | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
a fantastic job as leader of the party and First Minister. I've been | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
leader of the party for the last 24 years, I think it is time to give | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
somebody else a shot. There are many able-bodied people that will do that | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
well. -- many able people that will do that well. I'm still part of the | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
national movement, arguing to take this forward. I think you are right, | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
the question, one of the irony is developing so quickly after the | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
referendum, it might be those that lost on Thursday end up as the | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
political winners and those that won end up as the losers. When we met | :18:26. | :18:32. | |
just for the vote, a couple of days before the vote, you said to me that | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
there was very little you would change about the campaign strategy. | :18:37. | :18:43. | |
Is that still your view? Yes. There are one or two things, like any | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
campaign, there is no such thing as a pitcher campaign. I would refer | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
not to dwell on such things. I will leave of my book, which will be | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
called 100 Days, coming out before Christmas. Once you read that, I | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
will probably reveal the things I would have changed. Basically, | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
broadly, this was an extraordinary campaign. Not just a political | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
campaign, but a campaign involving the grassroots of Scotland in an | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
energising, empowering way, the like of which in on of us have witnessed. | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
It was an extraordinary phenomenon of grassroots campaigning, which | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
carried the Yes Campaign so far almost to victory. If Rupert Murdoch | :19:24. | :19:30. | |
put his Scottish Sun behind you would have that made the difference? | :19:31. | :19:40. | |
If ifs and ands were pots and pans... Why did he not? I would not | :19:41. | :19:46. | |
say that, you have form with him that I do not have. I'm not sure | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
about that. I was very encouraged. The coverage, not in the other | :19:52. | :19:58. | |
papers, The Times, which was extremely hostile to Scottish | :19:59. | :20:00. | |
independence, but the coverage in the Scottish Sun was fair, balanced | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
and we certainly got a very fair kick of the ball. In newspapers I | :20:07. | :20:15. | |
would settle for no editorial line and just balanced coverage. We | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
certainly got that from the Scottish Sun and that was an encouragement. I | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
think you saw from his tweets, certainly in his heart he would have | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
liked to have seen a move forward in Scotland and I like that. He said if | :20:29. | :20:39. | |
you lost, that was it, referendum wise, for a generation, which he | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
defined as about 20 years. Is that still your view? Yes, it is. It has | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
always been my view. It's a personal view. There are always things that | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
can change in politics. If the UK moved out of the European Union for | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
example, that would be the sort of circumstance. Some people would | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
argue with Westminster parties, and I'm actually not surprised that they | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
are reneging on commitments, I am just surprised by the speed they are | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
doing it. They seem to be totally shameless in these matters. You | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
don't think they will meet the vow? You don't think there will keep to | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
their vow? They are not, for that essential reason you saw developing | :21:22. | :21:23. | |
on Friday. The Prime Minister wants to link change in Scotland to change | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
in England. He wants to do that because he has difficulty in | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
carrying his backbenchers on this and they are under pressure from | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
UKIP. The Labour leadership are frightened of any changes in England | :21:38. | :21:39. | |
which leave them without a majority in the House of Commons on English | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
matters. I would not call it an irresistible force and immovable | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
object, one is resistible and one is movable. They are at loggerheads. | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
The vow, I think, was something cooked up in desperation for the | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
last few days of the campaign. I think everybody in Scotland now | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
engines that. -- recognises that. It was the people that were persuaded | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
to vote no that word tricked, effectively. They are the ones that | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
are really angry. Ed Miliband and David Cameron, if they are watching | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
this, I would be more worried about the anger of the no voters than the | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
opinion of the Yes Vote on that matter. If independence is on the | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
back burner for now, what would you advise your successor's strategy for | :22:31. | :22:38. | |
the SNP to be? I would advise him or her not to listen to advice from | :22:39. | :22:46. | |
their predecessor. A new leader brings forward a new strategy. I | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
think this is, for the SNP, a very favourable political time. There | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
have been 5000 new members joined since Thursday. That is about a 25% | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
increase in the party membership in the space of a few days. More than | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
that, I think this is an opportunity for the SNP. But my goal is the | :23:07. | :23:16. | |
opportunity for Scotland. I would repeat I am not retiring from | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
politics. I'm standing down as First Minister of Scotland. On Friday | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
coming back to the north-east of Scotland, I passed through Dundee, | :23:27. | :23:33. | |
which voted yes by a stud -- substantial margin. There was a line | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
of a song I couldn't get out of my head, and old Jacobite song, | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
rewritten by Robert Burns, the last line is, so, tremble falls wakes, in | :23:42. | :23:49. | |
the midst of your glee, you've not seen the last of my bonnets and me. | :23:50. | :23:56. | |
So you are staying a member of the Scottish Parliament, shall we see | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
you again in the House of Commons? What does the future hold for you? | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
Membership of Scottish Parliament is dependent on the good folk of | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
Aberdeenshire east. If they choose to elect me, I will be delighted to | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
serve. I've always loved being a constituency member of Parliament, I | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
have known some front line politicians that regarded that as a | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
chore. I'm not saying they didn t do it properly, I am sure they did But | :24:25. | :24:31. | |
I love it. You get distilled wisdom from being a constituency member of | :24:32. | :24:33. | |
Parliament that helps you keep your feet on the ground and have a good | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
observation as to what matters to people. I have no difficulty with | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
being a constituent member of Parliament. Can you promise me it | :24:41. | :24:51. | |
will never be Lord Salmond? Yes Thanks for joining us. Great | :24:52. | :25:01. | |
pleasure, thank you. Now, the independence referendum is over the | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
next big electoral test is a general election. It is just over seven | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
months away. In a moment I will be talking to Chuka Umunna, but what | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
are the political views of the men and women fighting to win seats for | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
the Labour Party? The Sunday Politics has commissioned an | :25:21. | :25:22. | |
exclusive survey of the Parliamentary candidates. | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
Six out of seven Labour candidates say that the level of public | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
spending during their last period of office was about right. 40% of them | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
want a Labour government to raise taxes to reduce the budget deficit. | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
18% favour cutting spending. On immigration, just 15% think that the | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
number coming to Britain is too high. Only 7% say we generous to | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
immigrants. Three in ten candidates believe the party relationship with | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
trade unions is not close enough. Not that we spoke to think it is too | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
close. Or than half of the candidates say want to scrap the | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
nuclear deterrent, Trident. Four in five want to nationalise the | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
railways. If they are after a change of leader, Yvette Cooper was their | :26:09. | :26:16. | |
preferred choice. Chuka Umunna came in fourth. And he joins me now for | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
the Sunday interview. Why is Labour choosing so many | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
left-wing candidates? I don't think I accept the characterisation of | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
candidates being left wing. I don't think your viewers see politics in | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
terms of what is left and right I think they see it in terms of what | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
is right and wrong. Obviously, many of the things we have been talking | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
about, how we ensure that the next generation can do better than the | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
last, how we raise the wages of your viewers, who are currently working | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
very hard but not making a wage they can live off, that is what they are | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
talking about and that is what the public will judge them on. But they | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
want to raise taxes, they don't want to cut public spending, they want to | :27:00. | :27:01. | |
re-nationalise the railways, they don't think there is too much | :27:02. | :27:03. | |
immigration, they don't think there is too much | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
Trident. These are don't think there is too much | :27:07. | :27:55. | |
not, it is their view. They are saying... You describe it... You | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
described those positions as left wing positions. I am saying to you | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
that I actually think a lot of those positions are | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
that I actually think a lot of those their children. Too many people do | :28:08. | :29:31. | |
not earn a wage they can live off. Too many people are worried about | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
the change. We have to make sure we are giving people a stake in the | :29:36. | :29:38. | |
future. That is a Labour thing, you want to call it old or new come I | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
don't care. It's a choice between Labour and the Conservatives in | :29:43. | :29:52. | |
terms of who runs the next government. That one of your | :29:53. | :29:55. | |
candidate we spoke to things that the party's relationship with the | :29:56. | :29:57. | |
unions is to close. 30% of them think it should be closer. You have | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
spoken to 73 out of 400 candidates. Why should the others be any | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
different? It's a fairly representative Sample. Many people | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
working on this set are the member of the union, the National union of | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
journalists. People that came here to this Conference would have been | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
brought here by trade union members. Do you think the relationship should | :30:19. | :30:22. | |
be closer? I think it is where it should be. It should not be closer? | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
I think that trade unions help create wealth in our country. If you | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
look at some other success stories we are in the north-west, GM | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
Vauxhall is there because you have trade unions working in partnership | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
with government and local employees to make sure we kept producing cars. | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
I'm not asking if unions are good or bad, I'm asking if Labour should be | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
closer. You are presupposing, by the tone of your question, that our | :30:50. | :30:57. | |
relationship is a problem. Let's turn to the English question. Why do | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
you need a constitutional conversation where you have to | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
discuss whether English people voting on English matters is | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
unfair? We want to give the regions and cities in England more voice, | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
but let's get it into perspective, we have had a situation where the | :31:11. | :31:18. | |
Scottish people, as desired buying rich people, have to remain part of | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
the UK -- by English people. What is the answer to the question? I don't | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
want to get to a situation where people have voted for solidarity | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
where you have a prime ministers talking about dividing up the UK | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
Parliament. Let me put this point you. Most Scottish voters think it | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
is unfair that Scottish MPs get to vote on English matters. That comes | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
out in Scottish polls. Why don't you see it as unfair? If the Scots see | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
it as unfair, why don't you? This is an age-old conundrum that has been | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
around for 100 years and it's not so simple. You're talking about making | :31:55. | :31:57. | |
a fundamental change to the British constitution on a whim. It's not | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
just an issue, in respect of Scottish MPs. As a London MP, I can | :32:03. | :32:09. | |
vote on matters relating to the transport of England and transport | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
is a devolved matter in London. In Wales, there are a number of | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
competencies that Welsh MPs can vote on and they've been devolved to | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
them. So with all of these different votes, you will exclude different | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
MPs? I think the solution is not necessarily to obsess about what is | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
happening between MPs in Westminster. That turns people | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
politics. We need to devolve more. I think we should be giving the cities | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
and regions of England more autonomy in the way that we are doing in | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
Scotland, but I've got to say, Andrew, it's dishonourable and in | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
bad faith for the Prime Minister to now seek to link what he agreed | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
before the referendum to this issue of English votes for English MPs. | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
That is totally dishonourable and in bad faith. You have promised to | :32:54. | :32:56. | |
devolve more tax powers to Scotland. What would they be? This is being | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
decided at the moment. I cannot give you the exact detail of what the tax | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
powers would be. Could you give us a rough idea? There is a White Paper | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
being produced before November and there will be draft legislation put | :33:09. | :33:15. | |
forward in January. Your leader has vowed that this will happen. And you | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
haven't got a policy? You can't tell us what the tax powers will be? I | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
can't tell you on this programme right now. But we have accepted the | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
principle on further devolution on tax, spending on welfare and we will | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
have further details in due course. Your leader promised to maintain the | :33:32. | :33:33. | |
Barnett Formula for the foreseeable future. Why is that fair when it | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
enshrines more per capita spending for Scotland than it does for Wales, | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
which is poorer, and more than many of the poorer regions in England | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
get? Why is that fair? We have said that in terms of looking at go - | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
local government spending playing out in this Parliament, we have | :33:53. | :33:54. | |
looked at what the government has done which is having already | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
deprived communities having money taken away from them and wealthier | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
communities are getting more. We accept that the Barnett Formula has | :34:03. | :34:04. | |
worked well. How has ip accept that the Barnett Formula has | :34:05. | :34:06. | |
worked well. How has it works accept that the Barnett Formula has | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
worked well. How has ip works well? There is a cross parliamentary | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
consensus as they don't know shat to do about it. Why has ip works well, | :34:13. | :34:15. | |
do about it. Why has it works well, when Wales, clearly loses out? I'm | :34:16. | :34:22. | |
not sure by I accept that when you look at overall underspend -- | :34:23. | :34:23. | |
government spending. It look at overall underspend -- | :34:24. | :34:24. | |
government spending. Ip is per capita spending in Scotland, shich | :34:25. | :34:31. | |
is way ahead of per capita spanding in Wales, but per capita incomes in | :34:32. | :34:34. | |
Scotland are way ahead of Walas. Why is that fair Labour politician? We | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
have said we want to have mora equitable distribution. You haven't, | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
you have said you will keep the Barnett Formula. I'm not sure | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
necessarily punishing Scotlan` is the way to go. The way that this | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
debate is going, what message does it send to the Scottish peopla? I | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
want to be clear, I am delighped with the result we have got. Phe | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
unity and solidarity where maintaining across the nations of | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
the United Kingdom. All of this separatist talk, setting up | :35:05. | :35:07. | |
different nations of the UK acainst each other goes complepely | :35:08. | :35:09. | |
different nations of the UK acainst each other goes completely against | :35:10. | :35:11. | |
what we've all been campaigning for over the last two years, and se | :35:12. | :35:13. | |
over the last two years, and we shouldn't have any truck with it. | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
Coming onto the announcement on the minimum wage, you would increase it | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
by ?1 50 to take it to ? , which would be over five years Thap is | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
all you are going to do over bive years. Have you worked out how much | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
of this increase will be clawad back in taxation and fewer benefits? Work | :35:32. | :35:38. | |
has been done on it. How much? I can't give you an exact figura. The | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
policy pays for itself. The way we have looked at this, we looke` at | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
the government figures, and ib people are earning more, they would | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
therefore be paying more in income tax and they will be receivinc less | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
tax and they will be receiving less in benefit and will pay out lass in | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
tax credits, so we are confidant that this will pay for itself. I'm | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
not asking about the pavement, I'm asking what it means for low paid | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
workers will stop they will gat an extra 30p per hour -- about the | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
payment. How much of the 30p po they get to keep? In terms of what they | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
get in the first instance, somebody on the minimum wage now, with our | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
proposal, would get in the region of ?3000 a year more than they are at | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
the moment. That is before tax and benefits. How much do they keap? I | :36:26. | :36:34. | |
cannot give you an exact figure. Why don't you give me an exact figure if | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
you've done the modelling? We are talking about some of the lowest | :36:38. | :36:40. | |
paid people in the country, and I would suggest to you that going down | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
this route, they would face a marginal rate of tax of 0 or 60% | :36:44. | :36:50. | |
and they will not keep most ob this increase you are talking aboup. I | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
don't accept your figures. Bup you haven't got any of your own. I just | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
don't have any in my haad haven't got any of your own. I just | :36:58. | :36:59. | |
don't have any in my head I can give you right now. Don't you think out | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
policies before you announce phem? Of course we think our policias | :37:05. | :37:07. | |
before we announce them but wa are confident people have more in their | :37:08. | :37:08. | |
pocket and will be better off confident people have more in their | :37:09. | :37:09. | |
pocket and will be betper off with pocket and will be better off with | :37:10. | :37:12. | |
the changes proposed, and we are also seeking to incentivise | :37:13. | :37:14. | |
employers to pay a living waga as well. At the end of the day, as I | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
said, the economy is recovering, great, but we know, at the moment, | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
it's still not delivering for a huge number of your viewers and we're | :37:24. | :37:24. | |
number of your viewers and we?re determined to do something about it. | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
The status quo is not an option. And even joining me. Twice in thrae | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
days. You can't have too much of a good thing. I am mad. He said that, | :37:33. | :37:35. | |
not me. It's just gone 11.35, you're | :37:36. | :37:37. | |
watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scopland | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
who leave us now for Coming up here in twenty minupes, | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
we'll be joined by John Prescott to talk about the challenge facing | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
Labour as their conference starts First though, | :37:49. | :37:50. | |
the Sunday Politics where you are. Hello, I'm Lucie Fisher, | :37:51. | :38:02. | |
coming up on the Sunday Polhtics We'll look at the thorny issue | :38:03. | :38:04. | |
of finding suitable sites I'm joined by the | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
leader of Mebyon Kernow ` Councillor Dick Cole, and | :38:10. | :38:16. | |
Conservative MP Sarah Newton. Welcome, both of you, | :38:17. | :38:18. | |
to the programme. Let?s begin by looking | :38:19. | :38:20. | |
at the implications for us Dick, you've spent | :38:21. | :38:22. | |
your entire political life `rguing Here you are handing in | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
a petition more than a decade ago. Like Alex Salmond, | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
you've talked a lot about hdritage If Alex Salmond has failed to make | :38:34. | :38:35. | |
the case for his nation, I was proud to produce a document to | :38:36. | :39:00. | |
take the Downing Street, and it is a shame that the previous govdrnment | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
refused to act upon it. Scotland voted no for independence, but they | :39:05. | :39:12. | |
are still pushing for more powers. This encourages me that we should be | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
pushing as well for more powers devolved to Cornwall. So yot do not | :39:17. | :39:22. | |
want independence for Cornw`ll, but you want devolved powers. Does this | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
make it more likely? All of the political parties are talking about | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
the future of the UK, so let's have a respectful wide`ranging ddbate | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
about the constituent parts of the UK, there are democracies and | :39:37. | :39:38. | |
economies and how we're going to the future. Itasca is to encour`ge | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
people to look at the option of a Cornish assembly. Where you hoping | :39:44. | :39:56. | |
that this No vote would put the end to these discussions. This hs just | :39:57. | :40:05. | |
the start, and I want to sed more of this. I am delighted that Scottish | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
people decided to stay part of the union, but the job now... So you | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
would be happy for a Cornish assembly? I do not think right now | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
it is the right choice for Cornwall. I think what we should be | :40:20. | :40:26. | |
doing is working with the powers, making the case for more powers to | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
be devolved, and making this work. How can you make the case for more | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
powers but not to a Cornish assembly? To the council and MPs. | :40:37. | :40:46. | |
This is what we need to do `ll over England and the United Kingdom, the | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
power back into people 's h`nds Let us stick with the Scottish | :40:52. | :40:52. | |
Referendum. It's been focusing minds | :40:53. | :40:53. | |
on how public money is spre`d out Some South West business le`ders | :40:54. | :40:55. | |
and politicians have been ottraged by the Prime Minister's prolise to | :40:56. | :41:00. | |
keep a formula which means people here get considerably less than | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
those in Scotland. Welcome to the Cinderella rdgion. | :41:04. | :41:13. | |
Bottlenecks are familiar sight on main roads in and out of thd | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
south`west. The Scottish Referendum has highlighted some uncomfortable | :41:20. | :41:22. | |
public spending gaps. Treastry figures show that Scots get ?10 000 | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
per head, whereas in the sotth`west we get around 8000 each. Th`t is | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
nearly 2000 a year less. Business leaders say that this is sc`ndalous. | :41:34. | :41:40. | |
They say that if we had a fdver share of the pot, this road would be | :41:41. | :41:48. | |
a motorway by now. The investment, fear and proportionate investment, | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
would have meant that the chty as big as Plymouth, it would not be | :41:53. | :42:00. | |
struggling with a road that is not a motorway. That would not have | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
happened. In Scotland they `re spending ?3 billion making ` dual | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
carriageway, creating 5000 jobs In the south`west, business le`ders are | :42:12. | :42:19. | |
still pleading for 300 millhon, to upgrade Road, generating 21,000 | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
jobs. Many people blame the Barnett formula. Barnett himself saxs it is | :42:24. | :42:30. | |
Hawaii Scotland gets free prescriptions and student fdes. I am | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
not proud of having my name attached to something that is no soul and a | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
fearful stop `` and fear. Btt the three main party leaders made a | :42:42. | :42:49. | |
promise, if they rejected independence, The Barnett formula | :42:50. | :42:52. | |
would stay. Why did Mr Cameron and Mr Miller band make a promise to | :42:53. | :42:59. | |
maintain The Barnett formul`? `` Ed Miliband. We are already well under | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
in relation to the Scottish economy. That worries me. Cameron cotld be | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
faced with an army of angry backbenchers. I think that we need | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
to reflect on the implications of having The Barnett formula hn | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
perpetuity. I do not think that would be to the advantage of us in | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
the south`west. But does he have a get out clause? If you look at the | :43:23. | :43:29. | |
small print, it may be guar`nteed, but only while that is needdd, | :43:30. | :43:35. | |
whatever that means. It is time for our United Kingdom to come together | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
and move forward. A vital p`rt of that will be a balanced settlement, | :43:39. | :43:46. | |
30 people in Scotland and importantly, to everyone in England, | :43:47. | :43:49. | |
Wales and Northern Ireland `s well. `` fear to people in Scotland. He | :43:50. | :43:56. | |
has promised to shake up thd constitution. Giving the sotth`west | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
more money for things like roads is one thing, but who should gdt the | :44:01. | :44:03. | |
cash? The Cornish assembly, an English Parliament or our existing | :44:04. | :44:11. | |
councils? One thing is for sure the can of worms has well and truly been | :44:12. | :44:13. | |
opened. Indeed. And to discuss this we are | :44:14. | :44:22. | |
joined by the UKIP chairman. Let us start with The Barnett formtla. Is | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
it unfair for people down hdre that Scottish people get more money? Yes, | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
it is ludicrous. Lord Barnett has made it absolutely clear th`t it | :44:33. | :44:35. | |
should have been caught red of years ago. It was only put in place to | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
last about three years. What should be done now? This promise h`s been | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
made. It is interesting bec`use now I see there is a wriggle gohng on | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
about what was the promise? The fundamental thing here is to get out | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
of this absolutely dreadful campaign to try to keep Scotland in the | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
union, Mr Cameron and his colleagues just threw something at it last week | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
and they have opened more c`ns of worms. Clearly, the funding has got | :45:06. | :45:12. | |
to be fairer. It is ridiculous that the south`west receives less than | :45:13. | :45:19. | |
London. Do you continue to support The Barnett formula? One thhng we | :45:20. | :45:26. | |
can all agree on, politicians must keep pledges. What upsets pdople is | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
if politicians promise something and do not deliver. So what has been | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
pledged must be delivered. Xou think he panicked? Was it a panic move? I | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
am not second`guessing what was decided, but since the day H was | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
elected, I decided to fight for the funding for Cornwall, and these gaps | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
are not fearful stop if we honour the pledge, which is quite right, | :45:52. | :45:59. | |
what happens for Cornwall? `` not fare. If the commitments were made | :46:00. | :46:07. | |
for Scotland, they need to be made for England. We will the extra money | :46:08. | :46:14. | |
come from? There has to be ` settlement across the whole of the | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
UK, and that is what I will be fighting for as soon as we get back | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
to Parliament, and I am surd MPs representing the rural areas of | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
Britain, especially English counties, who historically have not | :46:30. | :46:32. | |
been properly funded. The g`p has been closed. What would you think | :46:33. | :46:39. | |
about The Barnett formula? Hf you had a Cornish assembly, do xou think | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
in any way you would get thd same level of funding as Scotland? There | :46:44. | :46:49. | |
needs to be needs `based funding for various areas. During the rdferendum | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
debate, the Scottish Nation`lists were arguing that they were not | :46:54. | :46:56. | |
being subsidised, they were generating that much financd into | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
the Treasury because of the links to North Sea oil. So the debatd was | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
very finely tuned, there were arguments on both sides. Wh`t | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
argument could you make for Cornwall? It could be less loney | :47:10. | :47:16. | |
that we get. That is the pohnt I was coming on to. The issue for us is | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
the over centralised nature of the country in which we live. London and | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
the south`east dominates, and takes most of the investment on the | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
presentation `` takes most of the investment. On the presentation you | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
were talking about transport. What about HS2? It serves London, | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
ridiculous amount of money. We should be rebalancing the economy | :47:42. | :47:44. | |
and demographic institutions of this country. Vince Cable said London is | :47:45. | :47:51. | |
a great suction machine, sucking the life out of the rest of the country. | :47:52. | :47:55. | |
That is true and we are subsidising them. You're nodding, is th`t | :47:56. | :48:03. | |
because you support a Cornish assembly? No, but I agree whth what | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
he is saying. The south`west receives a lower Barnett allocation | :48:09. | :48:14. | |
than the rest of England. Wd are starved here, and HS2 sucks more | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
economy into London from thd north, which does not help. In the last | :48:20. | :48:26. | |
four years we fought very h`rd to get record levels into our transport | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
infrastructure. We have been starved for decades. But we have so much. | :48:32. | :48:42. | |
Let us look at the transport infrastructure issue. We have record | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
labels of infrastructure in our roads and rail 's. Cornwall is | :48:47. | :48:49. | |
definitely doing really well. But the point is the just `` | :48:50. | :48:57. | |
disproportionate investment. Education, the NHS, this has to be | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
tackled. Our children should have exactly the same as other children | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
all across England. When will this happen? This is what my job is. As | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
soon as we get back to Parlhament, we need to make the case. This is a | :49:12. | :49:18. | |
great opportunity. David Caleron once a fair settlement for Dngland | :49:19. | :49:24. | |
and Scotland. `` wants. Will be be a vote and when? Two there is a | :49:25. | :49:30. | |
general election in May. But that will not necessarily cover this | :49:31. | :49:33. | |
question, devolution, city `ssembly 's. What we will be doing is setting | :49:34. | :49:40. | |
out exactly what is going to happen for this settlement. Making those | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
proposals very clear over the weeks and months ahead. Is part of that is | :49:45. | :49:52. | |
desire to have a difference in the controls of government, that will be | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
welcome. The last ten Labour tried to do this, they were rejected. I am | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
interested in improving the quality of people 's lives. UKIP wotld like | :50:03. | :50:13. | |
an English Parliament, how would that work and what would it mean for | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
the south`west? The most important thing, and we have to remember that | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
what we have been fighting for for the last few weeks is to kedp the | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
United Kingdom together, and we should not now, in a backlash, | :50:28. | :50:30. | |
because of this mess, start splintering. We need fairness. We | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
need English votes on English laws, but someone wise once said there is | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
no question to which the answer is more politicians. If we start | :50:42. | :50:48. | |
creating new layers of government and politicians with differdnt | :50:49. | :50:50. | |
salaries and expenses, the people will be fed up of that. We have a | :50:51. | :50:56. | |
parliament already, and movds to suggestions as to when we use the | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
Parliament in Westminster, `nd this could be made fairer. Peopld are | :51:01. | :51:07. | |
going to be fed up, extra l`yers of government we just do not nded. In | :51:08. | :51:10. | |
Cornwall, we have a massive deficit. We do not have legislature that can | :51:11. | :51:23. | |
change Wallace is. We have 023 councillors, in Somerset thdy have | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
425, so we do not have the democracy we should be entitled to. I would | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
like to take up a further point People talking about Westminster | :51:32. | :51:37. | |
being an English Parliament three days a week, and a UK Parli`ment the | :51:38. | :51:47. | |
other two days. In the paper the other day they were going to propose | :51:48. | :51:52. | |
it was going to be a UK parliament Mondays and Fridays, and thd UK | :51:53. | :52:04. | |
``... It is a very complicated argument, and they way to split it | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
is an immensely complicated. It has been | :52:10. | :54:16. | |
to court and moving travelldrs on. The problem is not going aw`y. We | :54:17. | :54:19. | |
need to ensure there are safe places for them to stay when they `re | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
travelling. And that they do not have to pool into car parks and fit | :54:24. | :54:27. | |
all pitches, where the disrtpt the life around them. `` football | :54:28. | :54:37. | |
pitches. The number of unauthorised sites are up by a quarter in | :54:38. | :54:45. | |
Cornwall. The transit site was due to be here, but only last month the | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
local planning committee refused to grant planning permission, leaving | :54:50. | :54:52. | |
the local council with nowhdre official to direct gypsies `nd | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
travellers to. The committed turned down the application, saying that it | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
was unsustainable. It was too far from the town, and it would mean the | :55:04. | :55:09. | |
loss of good farming land. There is the will to deliver transit sites | :55:10. | :55:12. | |
because that is the best solution. Numerous areas in Cornwall get | :55:13. | :55:18. | |
affected by unauthorised calpsites, and if we had an authorised one | :55:19. | :55:22. | |
that would mitigate the problem is we are getting every year. `` the | :55:23. | :55:29. | |
problems. Where there is a will there is usually away, but dven if | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
councillors want to provide temporary, local opposition can | :55:34. | :55:35. | |
often win out. Most people say that they should be | :55:36. | :55:50. | |
able to go where they want to, but they do not want it where they live. | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
This is a thorny problem th`t has been going on for all my life. I do | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
think the best way to solve this is in the current range of polhcies, | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
which give quite a lot of power to councils to move people on. We had | :56:04. | :56:09. | |
travellers in Truro that have moved on. Sue the answer is to devolve | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
powers to the council 's. Which is what we have done. Anything to do | :56:14. | :56:21. | |
with shaping the local commtnity, houses built, I think these | :56:22. | :56:29. | |
decisions are best made. Whdre communities can come togethdr and | :56:30. | :56:32. | |
agree that this is a good place to put a transit site, there is | :56:33. | :56:37. | |
financial support. There is already a grant. There is a ?60 million | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
budget pot. All around the country there are far fewer unoffichal | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
traveller sites now. It has been working around the country. The | :56:47. | :56:53. | |
money is there. Why do we not have more of these sites? Is it just | :56:54. | :56:59. | |
unpopular? No council wants to put sites where other people live. It is | :57:00. | :57:07. | |
a difficult political issue. Over the last seven or eight years, we | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
have delivered a high number of Gypsy pitches. Those our Prhvate | :57:13. | :57:14. | |
pitches that have come forw`rd to the council, and the council has | :57:15. | :57:25. | |
turned on them, then they h`ve gone through the official system. | :57:26. | :57:33. | |
Travellers like to move and travel across boundaries. How can xou know | :57:34. | :57:40. | |
there are enough `` ensure there are enough across each boundary? There | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
are many contradictions going on as we speak. Cornwall has a target of | :57:45. | :57:54. | |
how many it should be providing but it is quite contradictory. H think | :57:55. | :57:57. | |
the big issue for a lot of local people is that the planning system | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
is geared that it is possible to get a traveller site on land th`t would | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
not otherwise be developed. As local politicians, you are faced with how | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
can they have that in the fheld but my daughter cannot have a btngalow | :58:12. | :58:15. | |
next to me in the field next door. These imbalances need to be | :58:16. | :58:22. | |
addressed because it is not clear to a lot of people. Sadly, I h`ve to | :58:23. | :58:28. | |
move on. Now, the regular round`up in 60 seconds. | :58:29. | :58:38. | |
Reports that the nuclear power station being built in Somerset | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
House been approved by the Duropean Commission. Unconfirmed but welcomed | :58:44. | :58:47. | |
by the MP. We have got to grow up, tell Europe | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
where to stick it and get into the job. Devon County Council threatened | :58:52. | :58:58. | |
to close its rubbish tips to the people of Torbay. You should be able | :58:59. | :59:05. | |
to take it wherever you want, regardless of where the centre is, | :59:06. | :59:11. | |
whether it is across the border As the trial badger cull continues | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
protesters are accused of h`rassing farmers. As soon as I turned the | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
light on to go to bed or go to the sitting room, their torches come | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
onto the Windows. The Plymotth University decision to spend 15 ,007 | :59:26. | :59:42. | |
Cheers was questioned. `` ?050, 00 on chair is. Let us look at these | :59:43. | :59:51. | |
chairs. ?150,000. Is that good value for money. I think this is | :59:52. | :59:59. | |
dreadfully sad. Lots of people in Cornwall after come to Plymouth | :00:00. | :00:03. | |
University. Especially our nurses get trained here. It really saddens | :00:04. | :00:09. | |
me about this reputational harm they are doing. They need to get their | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
act together and focus on the students and serve their colmunity | :00:14. | :00:15. | |
and stop making ridiculous decisions. Should it be possible to | :00:16. | :00:22. | |
spend that sort of money on chairs? Should this not be stopped? I think | :00:23. | :00:30. | |
it a massive `` it is a massive own goal. I do not think they even look | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
particularly pretty. I have been working with my local community in a | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
village hall, and we purchased 00 chairs for a hundred quid. @nd they | :00:42. | :00:50. | |
are perfect. That is the end of Sunday Politics. Now, back to | :00:51. | :00:51. | |
Andrew. Enjoy the rest the Conservative mayor's policy. No | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
more time I'm afraid. Andrew, back to you. | :00:59. | :01:06. | |
Welcome back the to Labour conference, where we're joined | :01:07. | :01:08. | |
by the latest hot new stand-up comedian on the Manchester circuit. | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
I speak of course of former Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott. | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
In between giving tub-thumping speeches to rally | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
the party faithful this week, he's appearing at the Comedy Store. | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
He was also of course the man behind the last attempt to solve | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
Our political panel is with me as well. John, we have got Scottish | :01:26. | :01:37. | |
votes for Scottish laws, and more Scottish votes for Scottish laws, | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
why not English votes for English laws? That's an English parliament | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
in a major constitutional change and that is what has started. I | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
certainly don't agree with that I campaign for powers to be given to | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
the regions. When I first tested it in the Northeast, I lost. Why? | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
Because they said they were not the same powers you are giving to | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
Scotland. So, basically, we must do that, decentralised, not just with a | :02:02. | :02:09. | |
Westminster Parliament. As you know, in 32 years I produce the | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
alternative. You've kept that for 32 years? I took it off my shelf and | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
everybody was talking about it now, but they weren't in 1982. This was | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
my five plan. 200 meetings all around the country -- five-year | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
plan. You wrote this morning, not 35 years ago, that this was a plot to | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
turn Westminster into a Tory dominated English parliament. But if | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
that is how England had voted, it's not a plot, it's democracy. You can | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
get reform in a more federal structure, and even English | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
parliament does fit into the federal structure and that is what the | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
Liberals say, but you need a fairer representation. It might be quite | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
radical, and we could get rid of the Lord's, and have representation in | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
the region there. It can't be done in two weeks. Alex Salmond, he's | :02:59. | :03:05. | |
assuming he has been sold out, and it was less than a week ago they | :03:06. | :03:07. | |
remain the announcement. We have to get it carried out will stop but | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
don't connect it to the English parliament that fixes it in their | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
favour. It may be pretty low politics from David Cameron to come | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
up with something that was not in the vowel -- a bow on the front page | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
of the daily record, but if they do not agree with what he said at the | :03:29. | :03:30. | |
time of the general election, he will say two in which voters, if you | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
want real protection in England vote Conservative, and if you want | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
Scottish MPs deciding on your level of taxation, vote Labour. He is | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
scared to death of UKIP may have been saying it for a while. In the | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
constitutional changes have to see what is fair and equitable, the same | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
with the Barnett fallen -- formula. But what you have to do is get a | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
fair system. It takes time to discuss it. I was doing a 32 years | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
ago and nobody wanted to know. We had better start a debate, and don't | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
mixed up the constitutional type of English parliament with what we are | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
promising in Scotland. It is about trust and politics. So the turnout | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
of the north-east regional assembly and they voted against it. The | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
turnout that the police and crime commissioners was low. How'd you get | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
people interested in the process and it doesn't feel like a conversation | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
in smoky rooms and you go back to British people and tell them what | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
you decided? If you look at the turnout in Scotland whether they | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
were interested in, now it is phenomenally interesting. It is | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
about real power, having real influence. What they said to me in | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
the north-east, they said we know you have an idea for devolution and | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
you will give us assemblies but it doesn't have the power of Scotland, | :04:44. | :04:46. | |
but now we are talking about equity, similar distribution of | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
power and similar resources. The English people are entitled to that. | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
They have been robbed of it for too long. Labour has long struggled with | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
what it should do over devolving power to the regions and you came up | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
with regional assemblies. Ed Miliband has a different idea of | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
city regions. Aren't they the same idea of yours but without a | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
democratic accountability? Can we really trust the greater region of | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
Manchester or Birmingham to deliver if there is not the same kind of | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
democratic link with the people I live in whole, and it stops on the | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
boundary of the Pennines -- the city of Hull. We have city regions from | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
Labour because I failed in the north-east to get the assemblies in, | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
and now we have to look at those options. Do you work through city | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
regions? Mainly in the north, I might say. Even the federal | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
structure they talk about my be in the North or Midlands with | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
Birmingham, but there are a number of options and that is where I | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
believe that what the White Paper should do is to put those options | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
in. Instead of having to put them together, state what you want to do | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
in the English regions. Leave it to the legislation, which is what will | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
happen with the Scottish, and once you've agreed it, you do it after. | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
You have to start the radical debate about giving the English regions, | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
not centralised in London, but decentralised. Do you need to have a | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
separate English parliament? Wouldn't it just satisfy the English | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
if you simply said to MPs, when it's in English matter in the House of | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
Commons, stop interfering? I would disagree with that. I would say put | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
the option in the White Paper. The White Paper seems to be talking | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
about Scotland. If you don't put the commitments to what you want to do | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
with the English regions, people might say I'm not supporting that. | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
Put the framework in the White Paper, but a different timetable. | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
Devolution in this country has been to a different timetable, whether | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
it's Wales, Northern Ireland. Start looking fundamentally at it and the | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
Labour Party should be leading the debate. Let's come the no campaign | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
lost Glasgow. The cradle of British socialism. -- let's come to | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
something that happened with the referendum as the no campaign lost | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
Glasgow. Is it a sign that the Labour Party are finding it hard to | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
what -- hold on to their traditional working class vote question mark its | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
different in Manchester. They would say it is a message about | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
decentralisation. If we change the message a bit maybe. We have been | :07:18. | :07:26. | |
thinking that now it is that either the Labour Party to recognise it is | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
not the old message and old areas that will win it. I remember | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
covering the 1997 referendum in Scotland and you gave a tub thumping | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
speech in a big hall in Hamilton and you really connected. Obviously it | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
was a different referendum because that was about a parliament, not | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
independence and Alex Salmond was on your side, but you, and Ingush MP, | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
an English minister, connected to the core Labour voters in a way that | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
Ed Miliband is failing to do -- an English MP. You make a fair point. | :07:54. | :08:02. | |
In the big rally, I had to point out I was Welsh. Enough of this. Get on | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
with it. What I was saying there was that I supported you, as I did for | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
30 odd years when Labour MPs were against any thinker Scotland. I | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
support you, but I expect you to come in with your Scottish MPs and | :08:19. | :08:20. | |
make sure the English get their share of the powers and resources | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
and that is what that speech was about, and by God, it's as relevant | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
today as it was then. I haven't got any Scottish MPs, I live in | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
Knightsbridge. Did you get the vote? No. What would you have done? I | :08:36. | :08:43. | |
can't tell you. You would have voted yes, come on. I'm interested. What | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
do you want to hear from the speech by Ed Miliband? People are wondering | :08:51. | :08:57. | |
about where Labour stands. There are many issues we have flown around, | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
and we've done the discussion just now. What he has got to do where he | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
started off on the minimum wage You are trying to deal with those left | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
behind. Those are the bottom. That is the Labour message. The National | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
Health Service is our creation and we have to say it will be saved If | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
you can save all of these bankers with all the money and say you | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
haven't got the money for the NHS, say where we stand. That will be the | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
priority. The third one, housing. I have had a revolutionary idea that | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
you can buy a house without a deposit and without the interest or | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
paying the stamp duty, and you buy it by rent. The government gives | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
?150 billion guaranteed housing for up to 600,000. Get down to ordinary | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
people who can use their rent to buy the house. It's happening in the | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
north-east. Why are they not listening to you? You have said more | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
to connect with ordinary people in three minutes than we will probably | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
hear in an hour. I've been telling them, made, and we have a commission | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
coming out. People don't want commissions, they want action. I | :10:00. | :10:06. | |
say, I know what we do, housing health, the people. That is our | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
language. That is why we are Labour. That a lot of people run away. I | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
think in Glasgow, they wondered about that. If you turn up on the | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
same three platforms, and I know it's a critical thing to say, they | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
think in Scotland it is a coalition. I don't like coalitions. It looks | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
like a coalition, didn't it? Maybe it was saved because Rupert Murdoch | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
started the The Times about the polls and he couldn't even get the | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
sun to say that they wanted. We haven't got time. I wondered how | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
long it would take is to get to repot Murdoch. You beat the record. | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
-- to Rupert Murdoch. Labour is quite behind on the economy, and | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
people are looking at Labour, trying to work out if they can trust you to | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
the stewards of the economy given 2010. Under Labour 's plans there is | :10:55. | :11:01. | |
20 billion of cuts to make in the next Parliament. Will we hear | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
anything about that? It is about the proportion of debt to GDP. I know it | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
sounds historic, but our debt when we came in in 1997 was a proportion | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
of GDP, and you must know this, and that was less than Thatcher's. Why | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
did we get done on debt? You guys run around saying a lot about it, | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
but the fact is it was worse under Thatcher. Thatcher is now seen as a | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
hero. If you look at the debt, it is still a problem. Gordon Brown did an | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
awful lot to solve those problems, but they were still left with us. | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
What we have to have is a sensible discussion like we had on devolution | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
and now we are talking about finances. Let's look at the public | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
sector debt and the price we pay. We need to be putting the record | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
straight. The problem is they tell me, John, we have to look to the | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
future not the past. We are getting screwed on the past and we have to | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
change it and perhaps Gordon Brown coming in could do something. | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
Finishing on the future, when we did a poll of the Labour candidates you | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
were watching on the big screen when it came up that their favourite | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
to succeed Ed Miliband was Yvette Cooper, why did you shout no! That | :12:15. | :12:25. | |
is alive. -- alive. -- that is not true. I know resistance is not | :12:26. | :12:27. | |
strong. What did that mean? You can't get away with anything at | :12:28. | :12:44. | |
a Conference, John. I was dropping comments them to pick up everywhere, | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
I do not wear -- nowhere they got that one from. Good to have you | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
back. Round of applause for former Deputy Prime Minister. That's it for | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
today. Don't applaud them, they are useless. | :13:00. | :13:01. | |
my guests. I'll be back here at Labour conference for the Daily | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
11:30am tomorrow when we'll bring you live coverage of the speech by | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
We're here all week, and next Sunday you can find us in Birmingham for | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:16. | :13:22. |