Browse content similar to 14/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Welcome to the Sunday Politics, coming to you live from Edinburgh. | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
Terrorists who use the name Islamic State have carried out | :00:43. | :00:44. | |
their threat to murder the British aid worker, David Haines. | :00:45. | :00:53. | |
They released a video late last night, showing a masked man | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
beheading Mr Haines, who was taken captive in Syria 18 months ago. | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
The jihadist group have already beheaded two American journalists. | :01:03. | :01:04. | |
Now it's threatening the life of a second British hostage. | :01:05. | :01:06. | |
David Cameron described the murder as an act of pure evil. | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
As we speak he's chairing a meeting of the Cabinet's COBRA | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
President Obama said the US stood shoulder to shoulder | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
Alex Salmond says Scotland "stands on the cusp of history" as | :01:16. | :01:23. | |
he predicts a historic and substantial victory in | :01:24. | :01:25. | |
As the latest polls show the two sides neck and neck, | :01:26. | :01:33. | |
I'll ask Yes campaigner and socialist Tommy Sheridan about his | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
And after last week's last-minute interventions from Gordon Brown | :01:36. | :01:43. | |
David Cameron, Ed Miliband and big business, I'll ask | :01:44. | :01:45. | |
pro-unionist George Galloway whether it's enough to win over waverers. | :01:46. | :01:55. | |
In the south`west, could thd Scottish referendum pave thd | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
step closer back to Parliament. Is it a lame-duck administration? | :01:59. | :02:12. | |
Late last night, as most folk were preparing for bed, news broke that | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
Islamic State extremists had carried out their threat to murder the | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
The group released a video, similar to the ones in which two American | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
journalists were decapitated, showing a masked man apparently | :02:24. | :02:24. | |
beheading Mr Haines who was taken captive in Syria last year. | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
The terrorist, who has a southern British accent, | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
also threatened the life of a second hostage from the UK | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
Mr Haines is the third Westerner to be killed | :02:36. | :02:37. | |
His family have paid tribute to his humanitarian work; they say he | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
David Cameron described the murder as an act of pure evil, and said | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
his heart went out to Mr Haines family, who had shown extraordinary | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
Mr Cameron went on to say, "We will do everything in our power | :02:53. | :03:01. | |
to hunt down these murderers and ensure they face justice, | :03:02. | :03:04. | |
Mr Haines was born in England and brought up in Scotland. | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond condemned the killing on the Marr | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
Well, it's an act of unspeakable barbarism that we have seen. | :03:13. | :03:27. | |
Obviously our condolences go to the family members of David Haynes who | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
have borne this with such fortitude in recent months -- David | :03:33. | :03:39. | |
Alex Salmond was also asked whether he supported military action | :03:40. | :03:41. | |
Haines there is no reason to believe whatsoever that China or Russia or | :03:42. | :03:54. | |
any country will see their will to deal with this barbarism. There is a | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
will for effective, international, legal action but it must come in | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
that fashion, and I would urge that to be a consideration to develop a | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
collective response to what is a threat to humanity. | :04:09. | :04:10. | |
Our security correspondent Gordon Corera joins me now | :04:11. | :04:11. | |
Gordon, as we speak, the Cobra emergency meeting is meeting yet | :04:12. | :04:24. | |
again. It meets a lot these days. I would suggest that the options | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
facing this committee and Mr Cameron are pretty limited. That's right. I | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
think they are extremely limited. They have been all along in these | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
hostage situations. We know, for instance, that British government | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
policy is not to pay ransom is to kidnappers. Other Europeans states | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
are thought to have done so to get hostages released, and also not to | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
make substantive policy concessions to the groups, so while there might | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
be contact, there won't be a lot of options left. We know the US in the | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
past has looked at rescue missions and in July on operation to free the | :05:01. | :05:09. | |
hostages, landing at the oil facility in Syria but finding no one | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
there. If you look at the options, they are not great. That is the | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
difficult situation which Cobra will have been discussing the last hour. | :05:18. | :05:25. | |
Does this make it more likely, because it might have the direction | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
the government was going in any way, that we join with the Americans in | :05:29. | :05:35. | |
perhaps the regional allies in air strikes against Islamic State, not | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
just in Iraq, but also in Syria We heard from President Obama outlining | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
his strategy against Islamic State last week when he talked about | :05:45. | :05:46. | |
building a coalition, about authorising air strikes. And | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
training troops. We are still waiting to hear what exact role the | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
UK will play in that. We know it will play a role because it has been | :05:58. | :06:08. | |
arming the fishmonger forces but the question is, will it actually | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
conduct military strikes in Iraq -- arming the passion are there. We | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
have not got a clear answer from government and that is something | :06:18. | :06:29. | |
where they are ours to discuss what was around the table. It's possible | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
we might learn some more today as a result of the Cobra meeting, but I | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
think the government will be wanting to not be seen to suddenly rushed to | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
a completely different policy as a result of one incident, however | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
terrible it is. Whether it hardens their reserve -- resolved to play | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
more active role in the coalition, that's possible, but we have to wait | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
see to get the detail. -- wait and see. What the whole country would | :06:54. | :07:00. | |
like to see would be British and American special forces going in and | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
getting these guys. I think that would unite the nation. But that is | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
very difficult, isn't it? It is As you saw with a rescue mission a few | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
months ago, the problem is getting actionable intelligence on the | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
ground at a particular moment. The theory is that the group of | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
kidnappers are moving the hostages may be even every or few days, so | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
you need intelligence and quickly and then you need to be able to get | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
the team onto the ground into that time frame. That is clearly a | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
possibility and something they will be looking at, but it certainly | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
challenging, particularly when you have a group like this operating | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
within its own state, effectively, and knowing that other people are | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
looking very hard for it and doing everything they can to hide. Gordon, | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
thank you very much. Clegg dropped everything and headed | :07:49. | :07:50. | |
to Scotland when a poll last Sunday gave the YES vote its first ever | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
lead in this prolonged referendum If their reaction looked | :07:55. | :08:01. | |
like panic, that's because it was. Until last weekend, | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
though the polls had been narrowing, the consensus was still that NO | :08:05. | :08:06. | |
would carry the day. The new consensus is that | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
it's too close to call. If we look back at the beginning of | :08:10. | :08:22. | |
the year, public opinion in Scotland was fairly settled. The no campaign | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
had a commanding lead across the opinion polls, excluding the | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
undecided voters. At one point, at the end of last year, an average of | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
63% backed the no campaign and only 37% supported a yes vote. As we move | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
into 2014 and up to this week, you can see a clear trend emerging as | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
the lead for the no campaign gets narrower and narrower and the | :08:47. | :08:49. | |
average of the most recent polls has the contest hanging in the balance. | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
There was a poll a week ago that put the Yes campaign in the lead for the | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
first time, 51% against 49%, but that lead was not reflected in the | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
other polls last week. For polls were published last night, one by | :09:04. | :09:12. | |
Salvation, for the macro-2 campaign -- Better Together campaign, and | :09:13. | :09:19. | |
there was another that gave a one percentage point different. ICM have | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
the yes campaign back in the lead at 54% and the no campaign at 46%, but | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
their sample size was 705 Scottish adults, smaller than usual. Another | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
suggests that the contest remains on a knife edge with 49.4% against | :09:35. | :09:45. | |
50.6%. When fed into the poll of polls the figures average out with | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
yes at 49% and polls -- no at 5 %. But some people think 18% are | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
undecided, and it is how they vote gets -- when they get to the polling | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
booths that could make all the difference. | :09:59. | :10:00. | |
campaigner and Respect Party MP George Galloway. | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Big business, big oil, big banks, the | :10:05. | :10:12. | |
Tories, the Orange order, all against Scottish independence. You | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
sure you are on right side? Yes because the interests of working | :10:18. | :10:19. | |
people are in staying together. This is a troubled moment in a marriage, | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
a very long marriage, in which some good things and bad things have been | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
achieved together. And there is no doubt that the crockery is being | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
thrown around the house of the minute. But I believe that the | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
underlying interests of working people are on working on the | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
relationship rather than divorce. I have been divorced. It's a very | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
messy, acrimonious, bitter affair and it's particularly bad for the | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
children will stop that's why I am here. You talk about working people, | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
and particularly Scottish working people, they seem to have concluded | :10:54. | :10:55. | |
that the social democracy they want to create cannot now be done in a UK | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
context. Why should they not have a shot of going it alone? Because the | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
opposite will happen. Separation will cause a race to the bottom in | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
taxation. Alex Salmond has already announced he will cut the taxes on | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
companies, corporation tax, down to 3% hello whatever it is in the rest | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
of these islands. And business will only be attracted to come here, | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
country of 5 million people on if there is low regulation, low public | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
expenditure, low levels of taxation for them will stop you cannot have | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
Scandinavian social democracy on Texan levels of taxation. The | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
British government, as will be, the rest of the UK, they will race Alex | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
Salmond to the bottom. If he cuts it by three, they will cut it by four. | :11:45. | :11:51. | |
And so on. So whether some people cannot see it clearly yet or not, | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
the interests of the working people on both sides of the border would be | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
gravely damaged by separation. Let's take the interest of the working | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
people. As you know, as well as anyone, the coalition is in | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
fermenting both a series of cuts and reforms in welfare, and labour, | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
Westminster Labour, has only limited plans to reverse any of that. Surely | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
if you want to preserve the welfare state as it is, independence is the | :12:15. | :12:21. | |
way to do it. For the reasons I just explain, I don't believe that. But | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
Ed Miliband will be along in a minute. He will be along in May The | :12:25. | :12:32. | |
polls indicate... They say he is only four or 5%, that is the | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
average. Like the referendum, the next general election could be nip | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
and tuck. I don't, myself, think that the time of David Cameron as | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
Prime Minister is for much longer. I think there will be a Labour | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
government in the spring and the Labour government in London and a | :12:49. | :12:55. | |
stronger Scottish Parliament, super Devo Max, that is now on the table. | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
That is the best arrangement of people in the country. But the | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
people of Scotland surely cannot base a decision on independence on | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
your feeling that Labour might win the next general election. It is my | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
feeling. When the Tories were beaten on the bedroom tax last week in the | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
house, it was written all over the faces of the government side not | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
only that they were headed for defeat, but probably a massive fishy | :13:21. | :13:29. | |
-- Fisher. I think the race to the bottom that I have proper size will | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
mean that the welfare state will be a distant memory quite soon. The | :13:36. | :13:43. | |
cuts and the run on the Scottish economy here in Edinburgh, the | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
financial services industry, that will be gravely damage. The Ministry | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
of Defence jobs in Scotland decimated, probably ended, more or | :13:54. | :14:00. | |
less. It will be a time of cuts and austerity, maybe super austerity in | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
an independent Scotland. You mentioned defence. What about | :14:05. | :14:07. | |
nuclear weapons? The Tories and Labour will keep them. You are | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
against them. Surely the only way to be rid of them in Scotland is by | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
independence. But you are not rid of them by telling them down the river. | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
The danger would be the same -- telling them down the river. The | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
danger would be the same. Nuclear radiation does not respect Alex | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
Salmond's national boundaries. They would be committed to immediately | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
joining NATO, which is bristling with nuclear weapons and is what -- | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
involved in wars across the Atlantic. So anyone looking for a | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
peace option will have to elect a government in Britain as a whole | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
that will get rid of nuclear weapons and get out of military | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
entanglements. We are in one again now. I have been up the whole night, | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
till 5am, dealing with some of the consequences and implications of the | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
grave international matter that you opened the show with. David Haines | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
and the fate of the hostage still in their hands. There are many other | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
hostages as well. And there are many people dying who are neither British | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
nor American. I have, somehow, been drawn into this matter. And it | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
showed me, again, that the world is interdependent. It is absolutely | :15:23. | :15:31. | |
riven with division and hatred, and this is the worst possible time to | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
be opting out of the world to set up a small mini-state on the promises | :15:37. | :15:44. | |
of Alex Salmond of social democracy funded by Texan taxes. Let's, for | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
the sake of the next question, assume that everything you have told | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
us is true. Why is your side squandering a 20 point lead? | :15:54. | :16:04. | |
I will have a great deal to say about that, whatever the result | :16:05. | :16:11. | |
This is very much a Scottish Labour project, is that not a condemnation | :16:12. | :16:19. | |
of Scottish Labour? It is potentially on its deathbed. The | :16:20. | :16:26. | |
country breaking up, the principal responsibility will be on them. And | :16:27. | :16:42. | |
the pitiful, absolutely pitiful job that has been made of defending a | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
300-year-old relationship in this island by the Scottish Labour | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
leadership is really terrible for me to behold, even though I'm no longer | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
one of them. I don't know how they are going to get out of this | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
deathbed. Do you agree that if this referendum is lost by your side it | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
will be because traditional working-class Labour voters, | :17:10. | :17:12. | |
particularly in the west of Scotland, have abundant Labour and | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
decided to vote for independence? Without a doubt, the number of | :17:18. | :17:23. | |
Labour voters intending to vote yes is disturbingly high. Even just | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
months ago during the European Parliament elections, swathes of | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
people who didn't vote SNP will be voting yes on Thursday. That is a | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
grave squandering of a great legacy of Scottish Labour history, which | :17:39. | :17:45. | |
history will decree as unforgivable. If Labour is to get | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
out of its deathbed in Scotland it will have to become Labour again. | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
Real Labour again. I am ready to help them with that. My goodness, | :17:57. | :17:58. | |
they need help with are increasingly fed up with the | :17:59. | :18:14. | |
Westminster system, but it is only the Scots who currently have the | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
chance to break free from it, so why shouldn't they? That is exactly | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
right. They see a parliament of expenses cheats led by Lord snooty | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
and the Bullingdon club elite, carrying through austerity for many | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
but not for themselves and they are repulsed by it. They need change, | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
but you can go backwards and call it change but it will be worse than the | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
situation you have now. A lot of Scottish people don't buy that. It | :18:48. | :18:49. | |
is a Scottish people don't buy that. It | :18:50. | :20:40. | |
getting this, they would say, what about us? It could delay the whole | :20:41. | :20:48. | |
procedure. It is necessary, you are right. England should have home | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
rule, and I screamed at Scottish Labour MPs going into the vote to | :20:54. | :21:00. | |
introduce tuition fees in England. I told them this was a constitutional | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
monstrosity, as well as a crime against young people in England It | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
was risking everything. We are led by idiots. Our leaders are not James | :21:11. | :21:16. | |
Bonds, they are Austin powers. We need to change the leadership, not | :21:17. | :21:23. | |
rip up a 300-year-old marriage. Thank you. | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
It's been one of the longest and hardest fought political campaigns | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
in history, with Alex Salmond firing the starting gun on the referendum | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
Adam's been stitching together the key moments of the campaign | :21:35. | :21:45. | |
It is the other thing drawing people to the Scottish parliament, the new | :21:46. | :21:52. | |
great tapestry of Scotland. It is the story of battles won and lost, | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
Scottish moments, British moments, famous Scots, and not so famous | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
Scots. There is even a panel dedicated to the rise of the SNP. | :22:03. | :22:09. | |
Alex Salmond's majority in the elections in 2011 made the | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
referendum inevitable. It became reality when he and David Cameron | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
did a deal in Edinburgh one year later. The Scottish Government set | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
out its plans for independence in this book, just a wish list to some, | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
a sacred text to others. This White Paper is the most detailed | :22:30. | :22:36. | |
improvements that any people have ever been offered in the world as a | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
basis for becoming an independent country. The no campaign, called | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
Better Together, united the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems under the | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
leadership of Alistair Darling. Then the Scottish people were bombarded | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
with two years of photo opportunities and a lot of | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
campaigning. For the no campaign, Jim Murphy went on tour but took a | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
break when he was egged and his events were often hijacked by yes | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
campaigners who were accused of being intimidating. In turn, they | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
accused the no campaign of using scare tactics. Things heated up when | :23:17. | :23:24. | |
the TV dinner -- during the TV debate. Fever pitch was reached one | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
week ago when one poll suggested the yes campaign was in the lead for the | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
first time. The three main Westminster leaders ditched PMQs to | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
head north. I think people can feel it is like a general election, that | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
you make a decision and five years later you can make another decision | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
if you are fed up with the Tories, give them a kick... This is totally | :23:47. | :23:55. | |
different. And Labour shelved not quite 100 MPs onto the train, Alex | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
Salmond took a helicopter instead. This is about the formation of the | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
NHS. A big theme of the yes campaign is that changes to the NHS in Linden | :24:06. | :24:14. | |
-- in England would lead to privatisation in Scotland. Alex | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
Salmond's plan to share the pound was trashed by big names. There were | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
other big question is, what would happen to military hardware like | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
Trident based on the Clyde? Would an independent Scotland be able to join | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
the EU? And how much oil was left underneath the North Sea? | :24:39. | :24:41. | |
This panel is about famous Scots, we have Annie Lennox, Stephen Hendry, | :24:42. | :24:49. | |
Sean Connery. I cannot see Gordon Brown. These are big changes we are | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
proposing to strengthen the Scottish parliament, but at the same time to | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
stay as part of the UK. A regular on the campaign, he was front and | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
centre when things got close, unveiling a timetable for more | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
devolution. People wondered whether Ed Miliband was able to reach the | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
parts of Scotland Labour leader should reach, and at Westminster | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
some Tories pondered whether David Cameron could stay as prime minister | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
if there was a yes vote. This tapestry is nonpartisan so it is a | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
good place to get away from it all but it is crystallising voters' | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
views. Look at what we have contributed to Great Britain, and I | :25:32. | :25:41. | |
am British and I hope to be staying British. This is what people from | :25:42. | :25:43. | |
Scotland have done, taken to the rest of the world in many cases and | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
I think I am going to vote yes. I am so inspired by it. It has certainly | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
inspired me to have a go at stitching. How long do you think it | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
would take to do the whole thing? I would say to put aside maybe 30 | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
hours of stitching. Maybe by the time I am done, we will know more | :26:03. | :26:05. | |
about how the fabric of the nation might be changing. | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
And I've been joined by yes campaigner and convenor | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
of Scotland's Solidarity socialist party, Tommy Sheridan. | :26:13. | :26:14. | |
An economy dependent on oil, the Queen as head of state, membership | :26:15. | :26:26. | |
of the world 's premier nuclear alliance of capitalist nations is | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
that the socialist Scotland you are fighting for? No, that is the SNP's | :26:33. | :26:42. | |
prospectus and they are entitled to put forward their vision, but it is | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
not mine or that of the majority of Scotland. We will find out in two | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
years. On Thursday we are not voting for a political party, we are voting | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
for our freedom as a country. That is why people are going to vote yes | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
on Thursday. A lot of people are voting for what you call freedom | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
because they think it will be more Scotland. You have already got free | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
prescriptions, no tuition fees, free care for the elderly. You might not | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
in future have that if public spending is overdependent on the | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
price of oil, over which you have no control. We don't have to worry | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
about one single resource, we already have 20% of the fishing | :27:27. | :27:34. | |
stock in Europe. We already have 25% of the wind, wave and solar power | :27:35. | :27:43. | |
generation. We, as an independent country, have huge resources, | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
natural resources but also people resources. We have five first-class | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
universities, food and beverages industry which is the envy of the | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
world. We have the ability to produce the resources on the | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
revenues that won't just maintain the health service and education but | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
it will develop health and education. I don't want to stand | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
still, I want to redistribute wealth. But all of the projections | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
of public spending for an independent Scotland show that to | :28:15. | :28:21. | |
keep spending at the current level you need a strong price of oil and | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
you are dependent on this commodity which goes up and down and sideways. | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
That is a gamble. I have got to laugh because I have been told the | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
most pessimistic is that in 40 years the oil is running out, panic | :28:38. | :28:44. | |
stations! If you were told by the BBC you could only guarantee | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
employment for the next 40 years you would be over the moon. I am talking | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
about in the next five. You need 50% of your revenues to come from oil to | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
continue spending and that is not a guarantee. Of course it is, the | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
minimum survival of the oil is 0 years. Please get your viewers to go | :29:05. | :29:14. | |
onto the Internet and look at the website called oilandgas.com. The | :29:15. | :29:26. | |
West Coast has 100 years of oil to be extracted. It hasn't been done | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
because in 1981 Michael Heseltine said we cannot extract the oil | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
because we have Trident going up and down there. Let's get rid of Trident | :29:38. | :29:46. | |
and extract the oil. You are a trot right, why have you failed to learn | :29:47. | :29:52. | |
his famous dictum, socialism in one country is impossible. Revolutions | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
and change are not just single event. What will happen here on | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
Thursday is a democratic revolution. The people are fed up of being | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
patronised and lied to by this mob in Westminster who have used and | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
abused us for far too long. The smaller people now have a voice | :30:13. | :30:18. | |
What about socialism in one country? Mr Trotsky warned you | :30:19. | :30:27. | |
against that. The no campaign represents the past. The yes | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
campaign represents the future. That is the truth of the matter. What we | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
are going to do in an independent Scotland is tackle inequality and a | :30:36. | :30:43. | |
scourge of low pay. If we vote no on Thursday, there will be more low pay | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
on Friday, more poverty and food banks on Friday. I'm not going to be | :30:50. | :30:52. | |
lectured by these big banks, you vote less -- yes and we will leave | :30:53. | :31:02. | |
the country! The food banks will be the ones closing. If you got your | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
way, for the type of Scotland you would like to see, state control of | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
business, nationalisation of the Manx, the roads to Carlisle will be | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
clogged with people Yes, hoping to come into Scotland, | :31:17. | :31:27. | |
because in their hearts, the Scottish people know that England | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
want to see the people having the bottle. The working class people in | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
Liverpool, Newcastle, outside of London, they are saying good on the | :31:39. | :31:41. | |
jocks that are taking on big business. When we are independent | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
and investing in social housing the people of England will say, we can | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
do that as well, and they will rediscover the radical tradition. In | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
wanting to build socialism in one country, it really means you are | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
fighting for the few, rather than the many. You are bailing out of the | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
socialist Battle for Britain. You think it will be easier to make it | :32:03. | :32:09. | |
work. Think globally, act locally and we will build socialism in | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
Scotland but I wanted across the world. I won my brothers and sisters | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
in England and Wales to be encouraged by what we do so they can | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
reject the Westminster consensus as well -- I want. We had the three | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
Stooges coming up to London, three millionaires united on one thing, | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
austerity. Doesn't matter whether Ed Miliband wins the next election he | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
said he would stick to the story spending cuts. Why vote for Ed | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
Miliband? You wouldn't trust him to run a bath, not a country. Let's see | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
if this is realistic, this great socialist vision. At the last | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
Scottish election, the Socialist party got 8000 votes. The | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
Conservatives got 30 times more votes. Where is the appetite in | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
Scotland for your Marxist ideology question we might not win it. But do | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
you know what, see in two years time. See when we have the Scottish | :33:02. | :33:16. | |
general election. You won't -- you are saying you might win and you | :33:17. | :33:19. | |
went to the Holyrood election and got 8000 Pope -- votes. The SNP won | :33:20. | :33:25. | |
a democratic election and then won the 2011 election and you know why | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
they won? Because they picked up the clothes that the Labour Party has | :33:30. | :33:33. | |
thrown away. They picked up the close of social democracy and | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
protecting the health service was -- service. There are people in the SNP | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
who believe in public ownership and people in the SNP who believe in the | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
NHS should be written into a constitution as never for sale | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
people in the the SNP that think the Royal mail should return to public | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
ownership. That is there in black and white. Do you agree with George | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
Galloway that this is potentially a crisis for Scottish Labour? Scottish | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
Labour is finished. They are absolutely finished. George is right | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
in that. Scottish Labour is finished. The irony of ironies is, | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
Labour in Scotland has more chance of recovery in an independent | :34:14. | :34:16. | |
Scotland that they have in a no vote. Labour in Scotland in an | :34:17. | :34:22. | |
independent country will have to rediscover the traditions of Keir | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
Hardie, the ideas of Jimmy Maxon, because right now, they are to the | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
right of the SNP as a political party. I understand the socialist | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
vision, but it is where the appetite is. And you look at the independence | :34:38. | :34:44. | |
people in Scotland. One of your colleagues, Brian Souter, a man who | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
fought against the appeal -- repeal of homosexual rights in Scotland. | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
Another of your allies would seem to be Rupert Murdoch, the man who | :34:55. | :35:01. | |
engineered your downfall. You say he engineered your downfall, but I m | :35:02. | :35:03. | |
still here and his newspaper has closed. Whether it Rupert Murdoch, | :35:04. | :35:10. | |
Brian Souter, or any other millionaire supporting independence, | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
I couldn't care less. This boat on Thursday is not about millionaires, | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
it is about the millions. -- this vote. We will not be abused any | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
young -- longer. Would you rather not have their support? I couldn't | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
care about the support. You know who is supporting the union. It is the | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
unions of the big businesses, the BNP, UKIP, they are the ones who | :35:34. | :35:40. | |
support it. You are giving me a stray that has wandered into the | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
campaign and are you seriously going to argue with me that the | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
establishment isn't united to try and save the union? That is what | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
they are trying to be. The BBC, you have been a disgrace in your | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
coverage of the campaign. Not you personally. You don't have editorial | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
control. The BBC coverage, generally, has been a disgrace and | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
the people. Oil and gas, go and look at that, why is that not feature. | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
Why is the idea of 100 years of oil not featured in the campaign. | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
Because the BBC does not want to see it. Are you getting in your excuses | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
if you lose? You better be kidding. Is this the face of somebody looking | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
to lose. We are going to win, 6 /40. Absolutely. There is a momentum that | :36:25. | :36:31. | |
you guys are not seeing on the working-class housing estates. | :36:32. | :36:34. | |
Working class people are fed up being taken for granted fed up with | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
the lives of people dragging us into tax cuts, bedroom tax for the poor. | :36:41. | :36:47. | |
They will have power on Thursday, and they will use it and vote for | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
freedom. Are you happy with the way the BBC has treated you today? So | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
far, yes. I have still not been offered a Coffey, but that might | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
happen. That is an obvious example of our bias. Tommy, we will speak to | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
you later with George Galloway. Hello, I'm Martyn Oates, | :37:04. | :37:22. | |
coming up on the Sunday Polhtics Whether there's a yes or | :37:23. | :37:25. | |
a no vote in next week's Scottish referendum, devolution will soon be | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
stalking the land, Could a Cornish Assembly | :37:30. | :37:31. | |
finally see the light of dax? And for the next 20 minutes, I'm | :37:32. | :37:40. | |
joined by Labour's Candy Atherton, Cornwall councillor and forler MP | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
for Falmouth and Camborne. And by the present Conservative MP | :37:44. | :37:45. | |
for Camborne and Redruth, The first time we've had a double MP | :37:46. | :37:47. | |
of an MP and their successor. During the summer break, | :37:48. | :37:55. | |
the fiercely Eurosceptic MP Douglas Carswell left | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
the Tories to join UKIP. No other MPs have yet followed | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
but many Tory backbenchers think the Prime Minister's pledge | :38:04. | :38:05. | |
of a referendum on our membdrship I can see nothing wrong with | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
renegotiation, I would say to you I want to see repatriation | :38:09. | :38:17. | |
of our powers, and if I cannot get what is best for my country I would | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
have to consider leaving. Unfortunately, as I underst`nd it, | :38:21. | :38:29. | |
the Prime Minister's position is that he wants to stay in Europe and | :38:30. | :38:31. | |
we have rather given away otr stance I know you love being reminded that | :38:32. | :38:38. | |
you came the opposite way from UKIP Does that eurosceptic angle give | :38:39. | :38:45. | |
you some sort of sympathy? I'll let you get 15 years ago and | :38:46. | :39:05. | |
one of the reasons was becatse it was completely counter`prodtctive. | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
They were saying you can only save the pound if you leave the DU and we | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
know that was completely wrong. The only way we can get a referdndum is | :39:16. | :39:21. | |
if we have a Conservative m`jority. Unless we have that, Labour will be | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
in power and there will be no referendum. You are no longdr for | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
what role? I actually think we should renegotiate. Should the Prime | :39:32. | :39:39. | |
Minister be threatening that? The Prime Minister gave the most | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
significant speech on Europd of any prime minister since the war. He is | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
right that we should have a new setup with some power is coling | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
back. Countries like Germanx say they are up for that kind of | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
discussion. It would be wrong to go in and say we are going to leave | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
because that is what people here, and the danger is that other | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
countries would be less recdptive to having the grown`up discusshon that | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
we want. It is clear that if you have a referendum and one of the | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
options is leaving that the UK would, but the onus is on the | :40:16. | :40:18. | |
government to get the fresh settlement and put it to thd people. | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
You are shaking your head? Ht is like ferrets in a act. We h`ve been | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
through the big depression `nd people anxious about housing and | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
here are the Conservatives completely enthralled by thd | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
argument about Europe. Not dven in the top ten of issues that people | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
raves. It is not going to do you any good and I think it will help | :40:43. | :40:50. | |
Labour. It is the case that we have seen it in Plymouth that UKHP are | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
taking working`class votes from Labour as well, you cannot be | :40:56. | :41:00. | |
complacent? The surveys are very clear that it is but several ways. | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
The Liberal Democrats are ott of the game. Michael Foster stands a really | :41:05. | :41:11. | |
good chance because we have is the anti`Conservative vote going to go? | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
Labourer. Let's not forget ht was the last Labour government that got | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
the economy in a mess. A sm`ll thing called the global recession. We have | :41:23. | :41:29. | |
growth returning. We always end up talking about the global economy! | :41:30. | :41:32. | |
Calls for devolved government in Cornwall have been falling on deaf | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
Now, though, campaigners hope the massive constitutional changes | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
generated by a yes or no vote in the Scottish referendum light be | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
With the Scottish independence Paul's neck and neck, the s`ltire | :41:42. | :41:56. | |
became a political tool that Downing Street and the Labour leader called | :41:57. | :41:59. | |
for it to be flown across the country. We want to send a clear | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
message to the people of Scotland, please stay with us because we | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
believe we are stronger togdther. The Tour of Britain whizzed through | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
Devon. But no sign of the s`ltire here, where it is not flags but the | :42:17. | :42:22. | |
impact of events which are stopping people's minds. Are you hophng this | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
could also be Cornwall's molent We hope it is after Scotland. But some | :42:28. | :42:34. | |
have been here before. Just over a decade ago campaigners for ` Cornish | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
assembly managed to get signatures of 10% of the population only for | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
Westminster to shelve the issue Nick Clegg is calling for a major | :42:44. | :42:50. | |
programme of devolution in Dngland. We have not seen a national party | :42:51. | :42:57. | |
commit to the Cornish case hn a serious way. Here in this chamber, | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
123 Cornwall Council as region, one culture, one history and | :43:02. | :44:00. | |
language and counsel. The there s absolutely no reason why grdater | :44:01. | :44:03. | |
powers could not be afforded to the unitary authority and that they | :44:04. | :44:06. | |
could act us all the time we could do many | :44:07. | :45:18. | |
more things, which would solve many of the problems that Cornwall faces. | :45:19. | :45:26. | |
I think there's a move as a result of devolution that this will happen. | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
Certainly from my party and others as well. Recently Ed Miliband | :45:30. | :45:36. | |
produced this policy talking about city regions. But on the face of it | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
since I Cornwall being attached to Plymouth which might be unpopular. | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
It is sometimes helpful to work was Plymouth. But what might thhs mean? | :45:46. | :45:53. | |
It is what is appropriate. Ht may be some of the inner cities of the | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
North want to work together as a cohesive region, but we do not need | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
another layer. That is the last thing people want. They want control | :46:03. | :46:09. | |
of what is going on in the community and not Whitehall bureaucrats making | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
decisions. What exactly do the Lib Dems want? We want to see a transfer | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
of powers to individual reghons based on what is right for the | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
region. Cornwall can be considered a region and it is explicitly made | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
clear in our manifesto that a Cornish assembly is what we want to | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
see. If other parts are not ready to move at the same speed, that is not | :46:33. | :46:41. | |
going to hold up Cornwall. Just boosting the existing unity? I want | :46:42. | :46:48. | |
to see a wholesale transfer of powers. We should not see Eric | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
Pickles dictating how often we empty the bends. `` bins. Something along | :46:53. | :47:03. | |
the lines of the Welsh asselbly but we do not have to see anothdr tier | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
of bureaucracy. You can enh`nce the council and you will only gdt that | :47:10. | :47:15. | |
with the Liberal Democrats. When Hilary Benn wrote to as recdntly he | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
was quite insistent that Cornwall to get more powers would have to | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
combine with Plymouth and would have to combine with other authorities | :47:25. | :47:27. | |
and that is not something that people in Cornwall want. I do not | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
hear that at all. We have otr conference next week. The shze was | :47:34. | :47:40. | |
the big issue? Sometimes size is an issue but it is what is | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
appropriate. The Labour Party has really learn the lesson that you | :47:45. | :47:50. | |
have to go to the appropriate level. I do think it is good somethmes to | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
work was Plymouth. Sometimes you have to work with your neighbours. | :47:55. | :48:01. | |
Several references to Eric Pickles. You are on the record as opposing | :48:02. | :48:08. | |
Cornish assembly but plenty of Tory MPs say that whatever happens they | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
will have to be significant constitutional changes. I h`ve | :48:13. | :48:20. | |
always said I am up for discussion. Cornwall Council is any special | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
possession but I do not think we need a new assembly paying lots of | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
money for another layer of politicians. It is important to | :48:30. | :48:32. | |
remember we have already brought in to place the growth deal. That gives | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
funds for infrastructure projects and part of that is looking at | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
whether Cornwall can take a stronger role in the number of eyes pushed | :48:43. | :48:49. | |
for that. `` and a number of others. We are up for discussion ovdr | :48:50. | :48:56. | |
whether we can do more but H do not think we need to have anothdr tier | :48:57. | :49:02. | |
of politicians. Some references to Eric Pickles imposing things, but | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
you have had this huge drivd towards localism but the reality is you have | :49:08. | :49:10. | |
been telling councils what to do with their revenue and council tax | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
and telling them how many houses to build. People like the Tory leader | :49:15. | :49:21. | |
of Devon county council say they have never been more constr`ined. We | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
have been encouraging counchls to take account that they have had | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
pressure on income over the last 20 years so we have helped those who | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
are willing to keep council tax down. We are also removing some of | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
the ring fencing swords is not true to say are dictating. The fhnal | :49:39. | :49:45. | |
point I am making is that there are certain things the public expect the | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
council to do, and picking tp the rubbish is one of them. There are | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
certain core functions wherd it is right for the government to have a | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
view on what they could council is doing. | :49:57. | :49:58. | |
This week the Liberal Democrats unveiled what they're calling | :49:59. | :50:00. | |
a pre`manifesto outlining the pledges they'll make | :50:01. | :50:02. | |
Differentiating themselves from their Conservative partners | :50:03. | :50:05. | |
in the coalition is a big p`rt of their pre`election push. | :50:06. | :50:07. | |
And, as John Danks reports, this includes rejecting polhcies | :50:08. | :50:10. | |
When the Lib Dems backed down on their pledge to prevent tuition | :50:11. | :50:34. | |
fees, many were disappointed. We have learned our lesson on tuition | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
fees the hard way. There will be no repeat of that mistake. The | :50:39. | :50:44. | |
so`called bedroom tax is other policies which has caused Lhb Dem | :50:45. | :50:50. | |
anxiety. Valerie Johnson can still see the larger house she left in 518 | :50:51. | :50:53. | |
years until her benefits were reduced. I have three months to | :50:54. | :50:59. | |
downsize. I had to get rid of the lot of stuff that meant a lot to me | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
and had to dispose of a lot of memories. It was painful. Shnce | :51:06. | :51:12. | |
April last year, tenants in social housing with more bedrooms than they | :51:13. | :51:15. | |
need have lost part of their housing benefit. Making the change, the | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
government said it was fear and would free up bigger homes. `` fair. | :51:21. | :51:30. | |
Others insisted it was anything but fair. The reality is a lot of people | :51:31. | :51:43. | |
living in overcrowded accomlodation, the sensible thing to do wotld to | :51:44. | :51:50. | |
have provided a stimulus, and the fiscal penalty drove them ott of | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
those properties and drove those in overcrowded property into them, but | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
that has not happened because people cannot move out because thex are not | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
properties available. He has now introduced a Private Members' Bill | :52:06. | :52:07. | |
which would prevent people from a benefits cut if a smaller house | :52:08. | :52:13. | |
cannot be found. And now his Liberal Democrat colleagues are backing him | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
instead. Despite backing thd bill, the cries of hypocrisy that the | :52:20. | :52:22. | |
Liberal Democrats were now `ttacking a policy that they had voted for. | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
They denied the move had anxthing to do with the general election. It is | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
perfectly reasonable and rational to say that on the basis of thd | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
evidence we think that we h`ve two extend the exemptions that `re | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
currently available. I think that while people can of course criticise | :52:43. | :52:49. | |
them for political cynicism, there is a strong rational case to | :52:50. | :52:54. | |
actually defend the position. As the general election approaches, the | :52:55. | :52:57. | |
Liberal Democrats are also pledging to stop public forests being sold. | :52:58. | :53:02. | |
Just four years ago they were trying to sell them off in coalition with | :53:03. | :53:08. | |
the Tories. They are also advertising new policies like | :53:09. | :53:10. | |
subsidised bus travel for young people. Whether they will change | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
their minds and other subsidies and policies remains to be seen. | :53:16. | :53:20. | |
We have heard many Liberal Democrats over the last few years defdnding | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
the bedroom tax in principld and practice, this looks a little | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
opportunistic? I cannot spe`k for what they have said and havd always | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
opposed the practicalities of it. If people have the opportunity to | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
downsize the should be expected to do so but without the opportunity it | :53:40. | :53:45. | |
is unrealistic and harsh. I am worse than through all the way. I am very | :53:46. | :53:53. | |
glad that in the run`up to the election, and with all the dvidence, | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
there are many thousands of people who are being unfairly penalised and | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
we need to reform, if not do away with the bedroom tax. Is it | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
embarrassing that your partx as a whole are on the wrong side of this | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
argument? If you have coalition then each partner in that coalithon has | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
to give a certain amount of ground. The Conservatives are bigger and had | :54:21. | :54:27. | |
to give less ground, but Tory backbenchers will say that the | :54:28. | :54:36. | |
Liberal Democrats held up and stopped the Tories from doing many | :54:37. | :54:44. | |
things they wanted to do. Bx and large, the government has done the | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
right thing in most circumstances. They are examples like the bedroom | :54:50. | :54:54. | |
tax where I think it is wholly the wrong thing, but you live and learn. | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
It is a measure of any politician or party who can say I am wrong, I am | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
sorry. Let's think again and do it differently. The evidence is in | :55:05. | :55:11. | |
practice rather troubling. Ht is important to know that all we are | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
really doing is bringing thhs into line with people in the private | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
sector. Those in receipt of housing benefit only get benefit for the | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
rooms they need and not addhtional housing benefit if the propdrty is | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
too large, so we are only bringing it in line. What about enough | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
smaller properties? The important thing to be on in mind is that as an | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
MP I get lots of people comhng to me with families, encoded condhtions | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
with children shearling rools, and there is pressure on that and | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
politics is sometimes about tough choices. It is right to expdct | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
people who are over occupying a house, perhaps when children have | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
left home, and it is right to ask them to downsize. That is a fair | :55:59. | :56:06. | |
thing to do. The Liberal Delocrats raised this that the time and have | :56:07. | :56:09. | |
been clear this was not one of the concerns they raised. They raised | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
lots of things about wanting a referendum on changing the dlectoral | :56:15. | :56:22. | |
system. I actually think thd coalition has worked better than I | :56:23. | :56:25. | |
thought it would but we are nine months before the election `nd it is | :56:26. | :56:28. | |
understandable there will bd some tension. One thing that is close to | :56:29. | :56:38. | |
home for you as we touched on the issue of the Liberal Democr`ts | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
pledged to protect public forests. Your colleague put it this press | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
release as the forestry Minhster but said it was a Liberal Democrat | :56:48. | :56:50. | |
pledge. Was that following protocol? I do not really understand | :56:51. | :56:56. | |
it because the truth is thex were never going to sell the fordsts | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
They changed the policy and there was no danger of any party going | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
back to selling off Forest. The idea at the time was you could gdt | :57:06. | :57:11. | |
companies like English nature involved. At the time there was a | :57:12. | :57:18. | |
huge storm about it but that is the coalition possession. They `re all | :57:19. | :57:24. | |
innocent! The Liberal Democrats late to the party on this and I could not | :57:25. | :57:28. | |
find it in the pre`manifesto that they would abolish the bedroom tax, | :57:29. | :57:32. | |
and I would be delighted if that is what they would do, but I think | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
people will remember tuition fees and the last manifesto commhtments. | :57:38. | :57:45. | |
People have seen and they do not like. I don't know how you can set | :57:46. | :57:55. | |
the and defend the bedroom tax when you know what it has done to people. | :57:56. | :57:59. | |
We will have to leave it thdre. Now our regular round`up of the | :58:00. | :58:02. | |
political week in sixty seconds As gypsies camping on this Dxeter | :58:03. | :58:09. | |
playing field face legal action the council says its new permanent | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
travellers' site has only attracted They came over and asked | :58:14. | :58:16. | |
if we wanted it built Government funding for free school | :58:17. | :58:25. | |
meals has fallen short by htndreds of thousands of pounds according | :58:26. | :58:31. | |
to councils in Devon and Cornwall. What I hope they will listen to | :58:32. | :58:37. | |
is they will actually cost ht Protesters in Somerset are gearing | :58:38. | :58:40. | |
up to disrupt the next phasd They are responsible shooters and | :58:41. | :58:47. | |
if we are in the vicinity they will And the Jazz age meets the `ge | :58:48. | :58:55. | |
of austerity. Weymouth and | :58:56. | :59:01. | |
Portland Borough Council saxs it needs private sector help to pay | :59:02. | :59:05. | |
for its 1920s beach house. This is the pilot badger cull | :59:06. | :59:26. | |
continuing. Well anything else be considered before the gener`l | :59:27. | :59:31. | |
election? The reality is last year and lessons had to be learndd and an | :59:32. | :59:34. | |
independent panel recommenddd some improvements and we are makhng laws. | :59:35. | :59:40. | |
You are not ruling out an extension? It is unlikely to be | :59:41. | :59:45. | |
ruled out because you would not do new early as next year before the | :59:46. | :59:51. | |
late autumn anyway. This is a contentious policy part of ` broader | :59:52. | :59:56. | |
strategy. We believe that a badger cull has to be part of it. Xou have | :59:57. | :00:00. | |
lost the public on this and it will not help bovine tuberculosis. I | :00:01. | :00:06. | |
would urge the foreign Minister to think again both on public opinion | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
and for the sake of the farling community and badgers. Thank you | :00:11. | :00:12. | |
The last time a sewer was built in London was 150 years ago, otherwise | :00:13. | :00:17. | |
we would have a dirty River Thames. Andrew, back to you. | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
Can the No campaign still pull it off? | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
And even if they do is the whole of the UK now on the brink | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
I'm joined now by John McTernan former adviser to Gordon Brown | :00:32. | :00:48. | |
and Tony Blair, Alex Bell, former Head of Policy for the SNP | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
and Lindsay McIntosh, the Times Scottish Political Editor | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
And I'm delighted that Tommy and George have stayed too. | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
No fighting has broken out either. Where | :01:01. | :01:08. | |
No fighting has broken out either. have three full days to go | :01:09. | :01:08. | |
No fighting has broken out either. polling day. What is the state of | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
play? I think the poll of polls is accurate. 49 and 51%. What is vital | :01:12. | :01:19. | |
is to bring the undecided voters in, and they properly have about | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
500,000. I think there are a lot of undecided people. I think they know | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
which way they are leaning, but they haven't jumped. The hope of the no | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
campaign is that they will go for the status quo on Thursday. How do | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
you assess the state of the campaign now? The crucial thing is the big | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
swing. The swing has come towards yes, so will the momentum carry it | :01:43. | :01:51. | |
over the line? I will think it does, because it is an antiestablishment | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
swell, and its people responding to standard Western as the politicians | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
and saying that they want a new way -- Westminster politicians. I think | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
that yes will sneak it. A referendum can be more important than a general | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
election, and the Yes campaign have had the momentum. This was the week | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
the momentum stopped. We started the week looking as though yes were | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
going into the lead and then it stopped and most of the recent polls | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
show a distinct lead for the no campaign. A distinct lead? It is one | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
or two points. It is six in one poll, two in another, aiding | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
another. The poll of polls is a good way of measuring, and is it | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
statistically Nick -- nip and tuck? It is the week the momentum stopped. | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
About a fifth of the electorate That will be a quarter of the | :02:42. | :02:44. | |
turnout have voted already, by postal vote, and they are running | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
very strongly towards no, so there is a whole bank of votes there. The | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
postal votes are skewed to the over 60s, and that is the demographic | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
that the Yes campaign have had the biggest trouble with. Absolutely, | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
the Yes campaign faced a challenge amongst the 16 and 18-year-olds and | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
always based challenge with the older voters. Trust me, I was the | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
decision the day the civil servants made it possible for the 16 to | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
18-year-olds to vote, and we said there was a victory for the no | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
campaign in that alone. The young tend to be conservative by nature. I | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
think again that to say that the momentum has stopped when you had a | :03:28. | :03:35. | |
20 point lead, this is a referendum whether people will speak and they | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
will be heard. Except for the one poll which needs a huge health | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
warning because of the size of the sample, the momentum is | :03:46. | :03:47. | |
unquestionably all the way through August is going in the direction of | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
yes. It hasn't quite continue to get to the 55/45 four yes that Alex | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
Salmond thinks will be the result. I would agree with John. This was the | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
momentum stalled. We saw the three leaders coming up, and that kept | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
Alex Salmond off the front pages on the television and we had a raft of | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
economic warnings which, although they were dismissed as | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
scaremongering, they will have had a lot of traction with voters. What | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
does the no campaign have to do in the final three days? It has to | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
focus on the undecided, relentlessly. It has to do stick to | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
the question of risk and keep pushing back on Alex Salmond to say | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
it doesn't matter if the banks leave, it will all be all right on | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
the night. The huge question amongst the undecided voters is about the | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
economy. It is about jobs and currency, about business. That risk | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
is what will crystallise in the ballot box on Thursday and that has | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
to be the focus. What does the Yes campaign have to do? It has to drive | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
home that the swing to the Yes campaign is motivated by people who | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
want a different politics. They have decided amongst themselves that they | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
want to change Scotland. The unfortunate thing is, even though | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
the no campaign has had the chance to put up after proposals, they have | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
failed. The Scottish people want their powers were a purpose and they | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
say that only the Yes campaign can deliver that. There will be two days | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
of relentless campaigning from today, Monday and Tuesday, then the | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
media, the newspapers, including your own, will come out with the | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
final poll, the ones that will be the closest to the day that the | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
Scots actually go and vote. I think we will see more polling this week, | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
but what is interesting is the extent to which the pollsters are | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
picking up what is going on in the street. We know we have a huge | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
number of voters who have never voted before and are not engage with | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
politics, so what will they do? The third candidate in the election if | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
I can would in this way, are the polls. They might have a lot of | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
questions to answer on Friday morning. We were talking earlier | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
with George and Tommy about the Labour Party's consequences in all | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
of this. Gordon Brown, of course, has had a bit of a second coming as | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
a result of this referendum. I just want to play a clip of Gordon Brown | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
during the campaign and get a reaction. And I say this to Alex | :06:10. | :06:20. | |
Salmond himself. Up until today I am outside front line politics. If he | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
continues to peddle this deception, that the Scottish Parliament under | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
his leadership, and he cannot do anything to improve the health | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
service until he has a separate state, then I will want to join Joe | :06:32. | :06:39. | |
Hanlon want in and securing the return of a Labour government as | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
quickly as possible -- Johann Lamont. That was seen by some people | :06:43. | :06:49. | |
as Gordon Brown implying he might stand for the Scottish Parliament. | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
Whether it is yes or no, is Gordon Brown the saviour of Scottish | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
Labour? I did a double black the other night -- double act with him | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
the other night, and I must say he was a big beast all over again. He | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
crossed the stage Meli dealt with the audience brilliantly. He has a | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
certain presence, Gordon Brown, but he would really have to reinvent | :07:13. | :07:13. | |
himself quite considerably. He is capable of doing, but the man who | :07:14. | :07:20. | |
was the biographer capable of doing, but the man who | :07:21. | :07:34. | |
been critical of the state of the Scottish Labour Party. Rather than | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
looking to Gordon Brown, which might be an interim solution, doesn't | :07:40. | :07:41. | |
Scottish Labour have to find a new generation of people to reignite it? | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
What George and I are agreed on and you have to remember this question | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
of independence see us disagreeing passionately, and in most other | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
things we find ourselves in agreement, one thing is clear, | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
Scottish Labour is finished. They have lost the heart and soul of | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
Scotland. The fact that we are discussing with four days to go an | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
independence referendum that is neck and neck, Labour have | :08:08. | :09:54. | |
independence referendum that is neck what they should have done since | :09:55. | :09:55. | |
then and in other circumstances is what they should have done since | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
take a real look within themselves and brought forward new talent and | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
policies and watch out what they stood for. They've been unable to do | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
that because they are locked in a constitutional row. It is the plan | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
of the Nationalists to fight the first Scottish general election as | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
an independent nation as a nationalist party with its own | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
programme. You don't all go your own way. Why don't you do that? You have | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
more on your main reason to be, so why not go, left, right and centre | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
question you are presuming you don't go the one-way. I do not see the | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
function of the SNP after the yes vote. I think it is clear that there | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
is an SNP under Nicola Sturgeon an SNP which attracts votes from the | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
left and that is the one for me Whether that is called the SNP or | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
something else, I don't know. I think the assumption that we are | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
going into a mirror of old politics in a new world is just fundamentally | :10:50. | :10:57. | |
flawed. That is interesting. Let's just bring in the English | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
dimensional. In many ways, England has not spoken in this referendum | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
campaign. Whether it is yes or no, it will, and to give you a flavour | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
of what some in England might be thinking was saying, here is a clip | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
from John Redwood. We are fed up with this lopsided devolution, this | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
unfair devolution. Scotland gets first-class Devolution, Wales gets | :11:20. | :11:21. | |
second-class devolution and England gets nothing. If Wales wants the | :11:22. | :11:24. | |
same as us, they should have it and then there would be commonality so | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
we could discuss and decide in our own countries, in our own assemblies | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
in Parliament, all those things that are devolved. George, it was clear | :11:33. | :11:40. | |
that if Scotland voted yes for independence it has huge | :11:41. | :11:42. | |
implications for England than the UK, but it's also clear particularly | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
after Gordon Brown's intervention, even if it is no, it has huge | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
applications. You are, I suggest, agreeing with John Redwood that | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
there should be an English boys It would be a step too far for me to | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
agree with him -- English voice I appreciate I might have gone out on | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
a limb. He is the voice of Mars the Balkan from Mars. My own | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
constituents in Bradford are asking, what about us? All these things | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
being done, all the extra mile is being travel to Scotland, what about | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
us? Labour would be well advised to adjust quickly on this so that the | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
John Redwood types do not steal the show. England has yes to use -- yet | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
to speak. It's interesting when you hear a Labour backbencher in | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
Scotland talk about a command paper. He is not in government. Gordon | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
Brown is going round Scotland promising things and he has | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
absolutely no chance of delivering them. The MPs in England will say, | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
hey, what are you talking about We have never been discussed with that? | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
We have not agreed with that. The only way people in Scotland will get | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
the powers they deserve is by voting yes. Crystal ball time, Tommy, you | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
think it is 60/40. I will stick with it, because we have an unprecedented | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
election. 97% of Scotland is registered to vote. The working | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
class will vote in numbers never voted before. George? 55/45 for our | :13:12. | :13:20. | |
side. And if there is a rogue poll, the tek Levesley polled -- | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
technically flawed poll, which should not be published because it | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
is so flawed, then we would be stretching towards what I am | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
predicting already. I think in the last few days we will reach that. | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
Come on. If the no campaign can get the silent majority out, they will | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
edge it. You think they will win, but how much? They cannot give up in | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
a second, a moment or a mile. It is that close. It will be won by the | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
passionate view. I will go for a narrow yes victory. I'm the George, | :13:53. | :14:03. | |
53 or 54% in favour of Joe -- no. -- I am with George. I will leave you | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
to argue about that later. Thank you for being with us on the special | :14:07. | :14:08. | |
Sunday politics from Edinburgh. That's all from us today | :14:09. | :14:10. | |
in Scotland. Don't forget the Daily Politics will | :14:11. | :14:12. | |
have continuing coverage of the referendum campaign all this | :14:13. | :14:14. | |
week on BBC2 at midday. On Thursday night Huw Edwards will | :14:15. | :14:17. | |
be in Glasgow and I will be in London to bring you live coverage | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
of the results on BBC1 from 10. 0 pm on a historic night for Scotland | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
and the rest of the United Kingdom. And I'll be back next Sunday | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
when we're live from the Labour Unless, of course, the referendum | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
result is so tumultuous even the Remember if it's Sunday, | :14:31. | :14:38. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :14:39. | :14:43. |