Browse content similar to 30/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
Theresa May says she wants to help people who are | :00:40. | :00:41. | |
"just about managing" - so should she reverse | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
George Osborne's cuts to benefits that are supposed to help people | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
Prominent London Imam Shakeel Begg is an extremist speaker, | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
says the High Court, after claims made on this programme. | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
So why is Mr Begg still being allowed to advise the Police? | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
Hillary Clinton fights back over the FBI's renewed investigation | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
into her use of a private email server - is this the boost | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
Donald Trump needed to reignite his chances of winning the White House? | :01:11. | :01:23. | |
Now it is just a question of building that runway with the | :01:24. | :01:25. | |
political problems that lie ahead. And haunting the studio | :01:26. | :01:32. | |
on this Halloween weekend, the most terrifying political | :01:33. | :01:34. | |
panel in the business - Tim 'Ghost' Shipman, | :01:35. | :01:36. | |
'Eerie' Isabel Oakeshott and First this morning, two | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
new models of car to be built, securing 7,000 jobs at the car plant | :01:40. | :01:48. | |
in Sunderland and a further 28, 00 The news from Nissan on Thursday | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
was seized on by Leave campaigners as evidence that the British | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
economy is in rude health This morning, the Business | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
Secretary, Greg Clark, was asked what assurances were given | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
to the Japanese firm's bosses Well, it's in no-one's the interest | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
for there to be tariff barriers to the continent | :02:08. | :02:14. | |
and vice versa. So, what I said is that our | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
objective would be to ensure that we have continued access to the markets | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
in Europe and vice versa, without tariffs and without | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
bureaucratic impediments. That is how we will approach | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
those negotiations. We're joined now from Newcastle | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
by the Shadow Business Welcome to the programme. Labour has | :02:36. | :02:48. | |
been a bit sceptical about this Nissan decision. Can we begin by | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
making it clear just what a great achievement this is, above all for | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
the workers of Sunderland who have some of the highest productivity in | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
the world, have never been on strike for 30 years, and produce cars of | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
incredible quality. This is their victory, isn't it? Andrew, you are | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
absolutely right. The Nissan plant in Sunderland is among the most | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
productive in the world. The workers of Nissan are amongst the most | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
productive as well. And it's really a victory for them and for the trade | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
unions and the business organisations, and everybody who | :03:29. | :03:30. | |
campaigned to make sure that the government couldn't ignore their | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
future. It's our future. I'm the MP for Newcastle. It makes a huge | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
difference to the region. We are a region that still likes to make | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
things that work. It is a huge part of our advanced manufacturing | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
sector. So it's really something we welcome as well as the job security. | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
I'm glad we have got that on the record from the Labour shadow | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
business secretary. But your Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, claims | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
the government is ignoring manufacturers and cares only about a | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
small banking elite. In what way is safeguarding 30,000 industrial jobs | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
in the North safeguarding a financial elite? As I said, we're | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
really pleased that the campaigning by trade unions and the workforce, | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
and business organisations, meant the government felt they couldn t | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
ignore Nissan workers. Let's also be clear that we want that kind of job | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
security for all of those working in manufacturing and in other sectors | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
as well. And sweetheart deals for one company, no matter how important | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
they are, that does not an industrial strategy make. Why'd you | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
say it is a sweetheart deal? Greg Clark told the BBC this morning that | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
what was assured to Nissan is an assurance he gives to the whole | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
industrial sector? I was really pleased to see Greg Clark felt he | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
had to say something, even though it's sad that we having our | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
industrial strategy, you like, or our approach to Brexit delivered | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
piecemeal to the media rather than to the British people and Nissan, | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
actually. But he want published the letter. He said he has told us what | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
is in the letter and that reassurances given on training, on | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
science and on supporting the supply chain for the automated sector. You | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
must be in favour all -- of all of that? We are in favour of an | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
industrial strategy. Greg Clark unlike Sajid Javid, cannot say | :05:32. | :05:40. | |
industrial strategy. I'm still puzzling to find out what it is you | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
disagree with. Let me put the question. You said the assurances he | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
has given to Nissan are available to the car manufacturing sector in | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
general and indeed to industry in general. What is your problem with | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
that? Two things. Let him publish the letter so we can see that, let | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
him have the transparency he's pretending to offer. But also, we | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
need an industrial strategy that values -- that is values based and | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
joined. He talked about electric cars and supporting green cars. That | :06:18. | :06:24. | |
was in regard to Nissan. At the same time the government has slashed | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
support for other areas of green technology. So what is it? That is | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
not to do with the Nissan deal. Labour implied at some stage there | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
was some financial inducement, some secret bribes, that doesn't seem to | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
be the case. You are not claiming that any more -- any more. Then you | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
claimed it was a sweetheart deal for one company. That turns out not to | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
be the case. What criticism are you left with on this Nissan deal? I | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
would be really surprised if all that Nissan got was the reassurances | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
that Greg Clark is shared with us. He didn't answer the question of | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
what happens if we can't get continued tariff free access to the | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
single market, if we are not within the single market or the Customs | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
Union. Do you really think a negotiator like Nissan, who are very | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
good at negotiating, they would have excepted making this significant | :07:24. | :07:25. | |
investment without some further reassurances? Do you think there is | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
some kind of financial bride and if so what is the evidence? I would | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
like to see the letter published and I would also like to understand what | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
would happen... There are 27 countries which need to agree with | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
the deal we have from Brexit. What will Nissan, how will Nissan remain | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
competitive? How will the automotive industry remain competitive? Greg | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
Clark says he reassured them on that. But how will that be so if we | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
do not get access? We haven't heard anything about that. He talks about | :08:01. | :08:09. | |
reassurances given to Nissan. We need to make -- to know where we're | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
going to make sure Brexit is in the interest of all workers, not only | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
those who work for a Nissan and not only those who can get the attention | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
of Greg Clark. He assured Nissan that Britain would remain a | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
competitive place to do business. That was the main assurance he gave | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
them. He would help with skills and infrastructure and all the rest | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
Since you are -- intend to repeal the trade union laws that have made | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
strikes in Britain largely a thing of the past, and you plan to raise | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
corporation tax, you couldn't give Nissan the same assurance, could | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
you? We could absolutely give Nissan the assurance that we will be, our | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
vision of the future of the UK, is based on having a strong | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
manufacturing sector. Repealing trade union laws? As we have seen at | :08:58. | :09:07. | |
Nissan, the industrial sector is dependent on having highly trained, | :09:08. | :09:15. | |
well skilled workers. -- highly skilled, well-trained. You don't | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
have that by getting -- having an aggressive policy and trade union | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
laws or by slashing corporation tax and not supporting manufacturing | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
investment. Remember, the last government took away the | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
Manufacturing allowances which supported Manufacturing and slashed | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
corporation tax. That is their solution. It is a low tax, low skill | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
economy they want. Thank you. Sorry I had to rush you. | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
I'm grateful for you joining us I'm still struggling to see what is | :09:45. | :09:55. | |
left of Labour's criticism? Yeah, except for this. This was a valid | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
point she just made. What we know for sure is that Greg Clark could | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
say to Nissan, my aim is to get tariff free deal. There is no way he | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
could guarantee that. None of us know that. I don't think that was | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
enough. I think clearly there was a more detailed package involving | :10:14. | :10:20. | |
training and other things. He has acknowledged this, albeit we do not | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
know the precise mechanism. What I think is interesting about this is | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
if you reverse what happened this week, at a time when the government | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
says Britain is open for business and it is going to have an | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
industrial strategy, so far it is a bit vaguely defined. Nissan hadn't | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
made this commitment. Imagine what would have happened? It is an | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
impossible scenario. The government seems to me was obliged to make sure | :10:44. | :10:50. | |
this didn't happen. Let's not forget Nissan has invested hundreds of | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
millions in the north-east. It has been a huge success story. When I | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
spoke to workers from Nissan, they were so proud because they went to | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
Japan to teach the Japanese had to be more productive. The idea that | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
Nissan was just going to walk away from this given its track record, | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
its importance, wasn't really credible. The government had some | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
bargaining chips. Absolutely, of course they weren't going to walk | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
away. The majority of people in the area in which Nissan is braced - | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
based, voted for Brexit. Nissan knows it is in a powerful position | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
because it is an emotive sector Clearly the government didn't want | :11:30. | :11:31. | |
to have some big showdown. I honestly don't think this is a | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
smoking gun. The Labour Shadow minister really struggled to | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
articulate what exactly she thinks the government is hiding. I think | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
the reassurances were given were pretty anodyne, really. They were | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
anodyne and general. And what Greg Clark was setting out was an | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
objective and he made the right noises, and Nissan exercised its | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
right to sabre rattle. It does have a history of doing that. The one | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
thing that would now be clear given Greg Clark's performance this | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
morning on the BBC, is that if we were to discover some kind of | :12:07. | :12:08. | |
financial incentive directly linked to this investment, not more for | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
skills or infrastructure, that is fine, but some direct financial | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
investment, compensation for tariffs, which would be illegal | :12:20. | :12:21. | |
under World Trade Organisation rules, what you might call a | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
financial bride, the sect -- the business Secretary's position would | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
be untenable? He would be in a very difficult position indeed. Just | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
released the letter. There is nothing to hide. Put it out there. | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
The most revealing thing is that people are getting wildly excited | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
about the fact Greg Clark announced Britain's negotiating position would | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
be that we would like tariff free trade with Europe. This is regarded | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
as an insight into what this comment is doing and it says a great deal | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
about how little we have been told in Parliament and the media about | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
what they are up. Do you think it is exciting we are going for tariff | :13:01. | :13:03. | |
free trade? We're easily excited these days. We don't know. This is | :13:04. | :13:11. | |
where these things are at such a tentative phase. We don't know how | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
the rest of the European Union is going to respond to Britain's | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
negotiating hand. We know Britain once the best of everything, please. | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
It is a starting point. But that is not how it is going to end up. We | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
are getting wider than that. We have will have to see. | :13:32. | :13:33. | |
Now, Universal Credit, a single payment made to welfare | :13:34. | :13:35. | |
claimants that would roll together a plethora of benefits whilst | :13:36. | :13:37. | |
encouraging people into work by making work pay. | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
But have cuts to the flagship welfare scheme reduced work | :13:41. | :13:42. | |
incentives and hit the incomes of the least well-off? | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
Well, some of the government's own MPs think so, and, | :13:49. | :13:50. | |
as Mark Lobel reports, want the cuts reversed. | :13:51. | :13:57. | |
Theresa May says she wants a country that works | :13:58. | :14:00. | |
for everyone, that's on the side of ordinary, working people. | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
It means never writing off people who can work and consigning them | :14:05. | :14:07. | |
to a life on benefits, but giving them the chance to go out | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
and earn a living and to enjoy the dignity that comes | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
But now some in her party are worried that the low earners | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
will be hit by changes to Universal Credit benefit system | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
originally set up to encourage more people into work. | :14:25. | :14:26. | |
We also need to focus tax credits and Universal Credit | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
Concern centred on the Government's decision in the July 2015 budget | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
to find ?3 billion worth of savings from the Universal Credit bill. | :14:36. | :14:44. | |
Conservative MP Heidi Allen is working on a campaign to get MPs | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
in her party to urge the Prime Minister to think again. | :14:48. | :14:55. | |
I want her to understand for herself what the outcomes might | :14:56. | :14:58. | |
be if we press ahead with the Universal Credit, | :14:59. | :15:00. | |
Do you think Theresa May, right now, understands what you understand | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
To be fair, unless you really get into the detail, | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
and I have through my work on the Work and Pensions | :15:08. | :15:10. | |
Select Committee, I don't think anybody does. | :15:11. | :15:11. | |
Independent economic analysts at the IFS agree with Heidi Alan | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
that cuts to Universal Credit weaken incentives to work. | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
One of the key parts of the Universal Credit system | :15:23. | :15:24. | |
That is how much you can earn before your credit | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
As the Government has sought to save money, | :15:29. | :15:30. | |
both under the Coalition and now they Conservative Government, | :15:31. | :15:33. | |
both under the Coalition and now the Conservative Government, | :15:34. | :15:35. | |
that work allowance has been cut, time and time again. | :15:36. | :15:37. | |
The biggest cuts happened in the summer budget of 2015. | :15:38. | :15:40. | |
That basically reduces the amount of earnings you get to keep | :15:41. | :15:42. | |
It weakens the incentive people have to move into work. | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
What do changes to the Universal Credit system mean? | :15:47. | :15:48. | |
The Resolution Foundation think tank has crunched the numbers. | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
If you compare what would have happened before the July 2015 summer | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
budget to what will happen by 2 20, even if you take into account gains | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
in the National Living Wage and income tax cuts, | :15:59. | :16:00. | |
recipients will be hit by annual deductions. | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
Couples and parents would receive, on average, ?1000 less. | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
A dual-earning couple with two children under four, | :16:10. | :16:11. | |
with one partner working full-time on ?10.50 an hour and the other | :16:12. | :16:14. | |
working part-time on the minimum wage for around 20 | :16:15. | :16:17. | |
hours a week, they would receive ?1800 less. | :16:18. | :16:24. | |
Hit most by the changes would be a single parent | :16:25. | :16:26. | |
with a child under four, working full-time | :16:27. | :16:28. | |
I think, if I'm honest, it is unrealistic, given | :16:29. | :16:42. | |
the economic climate, to expect everything to be reversed. | :16:43. | :16:45. | |
What I would like to see is an increase in the work | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
allowances to those people who will be hardest hit. | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
That is single parents and second earners hoping to return to work, | :16:55. | :16:57. | |
because they are the people we need to absolutely make | :16:58. | :16:59. | |
The Sunday Politics understands that about 15 to 20 Conservative MPs | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
are pushing for changes ahead of the Autumn Statement. | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
A former cabinet minister told us that they believed further impact | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
analysis should be done to find out if any mitigation measures | :17:12. | :17:13. | |
Former Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith, an architect | :17:14. | :17:20. | |
of the system, now says the cuts should be reversed. | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
But his former department has told us that it has no plans to revisit | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
the work allowance changes announced in the budget last year. | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
What I would say to Heidi Allen and IDS, they got it right the first | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
time and they should stick to the vote they cast last year | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
because these reforms actually do make sense. | :17:41. | :17:42. | |
What interests me is the fact we are trying to move people | :17:43. | :17:45. | |
off welfare into work, we are raising the wages people | :17:46. | :17:47. | |
earn by massively increasing the minimum wage and this | :17:48. | :17:49. | |
People are coming off welfare and into work. | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
Campaigners are pushing for savings to come from other areas to relieve | :17:54. | :17:56. | |
The other thing we have to start looking at is the triple | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
Financially it has been a great policy, and it was absolutely right | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
that we lifted pensioners who were significantly behind, | :18:07. | :18:08. | |
for many years, in terms of income levels, but they have | :18:09. | :18:10. | |
I think it is time for us to look at that policy again, | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
because is costing us an awful lot of money. | :18:17. | :18:18. | |
With just over three weeks to wait until the Conservative leadership's | :18:19. | :18:21. | |
new economic plan is unveiled in the Autumn Statement, | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
its top team is under pressure from within its own ranks to use it | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
And I'm joined now by former Work and Pensions Secretary, | :18:28. | :18:37. | |
Welcome back to the programme. Theresa May said she is on the side | :18:38. | :18:45. | |
of the just managing, the working poor. But they are about to be hit | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
from all sides. Their modest living standards are going to be squeezed | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
as inflation overtakes pay rises, they will be further squeezed | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
because top-up benefits in work are frozen. Incentives to work are going | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
to be reduced by the cuts in universal benefits. So much for | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
being on the side of those just managing? Theresa was right to focus | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
on this group. The definition has to be the bottom half, in economic | :19:12. | :19:18. | |
terms, of the social structure. It doesn't look good for them? This is | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
the point I am making, it is an opportunity to put some of this | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
right. One of the reasons I resigned in March is because I felt the | :19:26. | :19:28. | |
direction of travel we had been going in had been to take far too | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
much money out of that group of people when there are other areas | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
which, if you need to make some of those savings, you can. The key bit | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
is that the group needs to be helped through into work and encouraged to | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
stay in work. There was a report done with the IFS, when we were | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
there, at Universal Credit. It said Universal Credit rolled out, as it | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
should have been before the cuts, people would be much more likely to | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
stay in work longer and earn more money. It is a net positive, but | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
that is now called into question. Let's unpick some of the detail but | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
first, do you accept the words of David Willets? It says on the basis | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
of the things I read out to you that the just managing face a significant | :20:10. | :20:16. | |
and painful cut in real terms if we continue on the way we are going. I | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
do, in essence. That is the reason why I resigned. I felt Heidi raised | :20:22. | :20:29. | |
that issue as well, that we got the balance wrong. It is right that | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
pensioners get to a certain point, when they are on a level par, doing | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
the right thing over five years Staying with that process has cost | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
us ?18 billion extra this year, in total. It will go on costing another | :20:43. | :20:50. | |
5 billion. Then there is the issue of tax allowances. I want to remind | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
you and viewers what David Cameron told the Conservative conference in | :20:56. | :21:02. | |
2009. If you are a single mother with two children, earning ?150 a | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
week, the withdrawal of your benefits and the additional taxes | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
that you pay me on that for every extra you earn, you keep just 4p. | :21:12. | :21:18. | |
What kind of incentive is that? 30 years ago, this party won and | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
election fighting against 98% tax rates for the Rex richest. I want us | :21:25. | :21:34. | |
today to show even more anger about 96% tax rates for the very poorest | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
in our country. Real anger, and effective rate of over 90%. | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
Universal Credit reduces that. Some will still face, as they lose | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
benefits and pay tax, a marginal rate of over 75%. That is still too | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
high? Yes, it is the collision between those going into work at the | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
moment they start paying tax. A racial Universal Credit is set at | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
65%. You can call that the base marginal tax rate. 1.2 million will | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
face 75%? That is the point about why the allowances are so important. | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
The point about the allowances which viewers might not fully understand | :22:14. | :22:16. | |
is that it was set, as part of Universal Credit, to allow you to | :22:17. | :22:20. | |
get certain people, with certain difficulties, as they cross into | :22:21. | :22:23. | |
work, to retain more benefit before it is tapered away as they go up in | :22:24. | :22:30. | |
hours. A lone parent, who might have various issues, you want her to have | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
a bigger incentive than a single person that does not have the same | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
commitments. It is structured so that somebody who has difficulty | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
going to work, they all have slightly different rates. What | :22:43. | :22:44. | |
happened is that last year a decision was taken to reduce tax | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
credits, and, on the back of that, to reduce allowances. I believe | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
given everything that happened now, we need to restore that to the point | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
where it helps those people crossing over. You say a decision was taken, | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
it was a decision by the former Chancellor George Osborne in the | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
summer budget. Other decisions were taken in successive Budgets to raise | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
the Universal Credit budget, which resulted in the disincentive being | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
higher than many people wanted. Do you accept that has been the | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
consequence of his decisions? I was in the Government, we take | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
collective responsibility. I argued this was not the right way to go, | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
but when you are in you have to stay with it if you lose that argument. | :23:26. | :23:28. | |
There was another attempt before the spending review last year to | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
increase the taper, so the marginal rate would have gone up. I managed | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
to stop that. I'm Sibley saying what we made as a decision last | :23:38. | :23:40. | |
year, given the circumstances and given that the net effect of all of | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
that, I think it is time for the Government to ask the question, if | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
we are in this to help that group of people, Universal Credit is | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
singularly the most powerful tool. One of the Argentine aid in the | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
paper published on Thursday, we are set going on doing two more races of | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
the tax threshold, taking more people out of tax. That has a | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
diminishing effect on the bottom section. Only 25p in that tax rate | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
will help any of those. Most of it goes to middle income? You and I | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
will benefit more from that. With Universal Credit, every pound you | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
put into that will go to the bottom five tenths. That is why I designed | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
it like that. He pressed the button and immediately start to changed | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
circumstances. Should the cuts in Universal Credit that Mr Osborne | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
introduced, against your argument, should they be reversed? I believe | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
so. I believe you can do it even if there is concern about spending I | :24:41. | :24:43. | |
don't believe you need to go through with the continuing raise the tax | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
threshold. Cost is dependent on inflation, but give or take. It is | :24:48. | :24:55. | |
in the Tory manifesto? Has more than doubled. What is in the manifesto, | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
and Lasse Prime Minister made this clear in conference, we want to | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
improve the life chances of people. Today's announcement on the Green | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
paper is what I wrote over the last two and a half years. Big changes | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
necessary to how we deal with sickness benefit. That can now be | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
done because of Universal Credit, because people can go back to work | :25:18. | :25:20. | |
and it tapers away their benefits. It is the most powerful tool to sort | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
our people that live in poverty Universal Credit. We need to make | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
sure it lands positively. If Mr Osborne's cuts were reversed, what | :25:30. | :25:32. | |
you and some of your backbench Tory colleagues want to do, how would | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
that improve the incentives of the working poor, as they try to get on | :25:38. | :25:43. | |
in life? They have to pay more tax, they lose some benefits. How would | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
it improve it? Would many still face a 75% rate? The key question is | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
first and foremost, as people move through income to the point where | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
they are getting taxed, that group will be enormously benefited by the | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
re-emergence of these allowances at the right level. That is what the | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
IFS have said, that is what the Resolution Foundation are saying, | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
and the Centre For Social Justice is saying. You have to get that group, | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
because they are most likely to be drifting into poverty and less | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
incomes are right. Would it help those who face a 75% margin? We | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
don't face that. Exactly right. People much poorer than us do. I | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
would love to get the marginal rate down to testify percent, and lower,. | :26:30. | :26:38. | |
-- down to 65%. It is a balance of how you spend the money. I would | :26:39. | :26:41. | |
prefer to do that rather than necessarily go ahead with threshold | :26:42. | :26:49. | |
razors. I think the coronation of the marginal reduction of 65%, | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
getting it down to 60%, plus more allowances, will allow Universal | :26:55. | :26:57. | |
Credit to get to the group that is going to be, and the report written | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
by the IFS and ourselves, it shows it is going to be the most dynamic | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
and direct ability of a Government to be able to influence the way that | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
people improve their incomes in the bottom five deciles. Would you take | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
on extra work if you knew you were going to lose 75% of it? Even 6 %? | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
This has been my argument all along. Universal Credit can help that | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
enormously. One point that goes missing, 70% of the bottom five | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
deciles will be on Universal Credit. Whatever change you make to | :27:33. | :27:34. | |
Universal Credit has a dramatic and immediate effect I am arguing, | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
genuinely, it is time to rethink this. The Prime Minister wants to | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
make this a priority. I am completely with her on this. I think | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
she made a really good start. To deliver this, we need to... You have | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
a lot of work to do to deliver it. Because it is a manifesto | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
commitment, or because they want to do it, stopping increasing the | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
personal allowances are not acceptable, what about bringing to | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
an end, by the end of the parliament, the pension triple lock | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
that pensioners enjoy to improve and put more money to the working poor? | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
What about that? Well, you are absolutely right that there is now | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
the danger, I think, of a mess balance between the generations | :28:22. | :28:24. | |
Quite rightly at the beginning, when we came in, we have a commitment as | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
a Conservative Party in a manifesto to get pensions back onto earnings. | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
It was moved to a triple lock that guaranteed a minimum. What about | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
ending up now? I understand it is a promise through the Parliament, but | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
after 2020? I am in favour of getting it back to innings and | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
allowing it to rise at reasonable levels. Moving from earnings to the | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
triple lock has cost ?18 billion this year. Here was a high, under | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
pressure, as the Government was scratching around to pay more money | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
out of working age areas, when the budget was almost out of control on | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
the pension side. I'm in favour of helping pensioners, but now they are | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
up to a reasonable level, at a steady rate, that can be afforded by | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
Government, which takes the pressure off, working age people have to pay | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
for that. In years to come, time to end the triple lock | :29:17. | :29:27. | |
and use the savings to help these people we have been talking about? | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
As part of a load of packages, yes. It would also help with the | :29:32. | :29:33. | |
intergenerational fairness argument. Thank you for being with us. | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
Now, a prominent London Imam called Shakeel Begg - | :29:37. | :29:38. | |
who is Chief Imam the Lewisham Islamic Centre - is an extremist. | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
That was the verdict of the judge in a libel action that Mr Begg took | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
against the BBC, after we described him as an Islamic extremist | :29:46. | :29:48. | |
Mr Begg had complained about a short segment in an interview in November | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
2013 with Farooq Murad, the then head of the Muslim Council | :29:53. | :29:55. | |
of Britain, an organisation which claims to represent British | :29:56. | :29:57. | |
In that interview, we described Mr Begg as an extremist speaker | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
who had hailed jihad is the greatest of deeds. | :30:04. | :30:05. | |
From his base of the Lewisham Islamic Centre, Mr Begg has been | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
involved in a number of community organisations, including | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
the Police Independent Advisory Group in Lewisham, | :30:14. | :30:15. | |
Lewisham Council's Advisory Council on Religious Education | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
and as a volunteer chaplain at Lewisham Hospital. | :30:21. | :30:23. | |
But in his judgment, Mr Justice Haddon-Cave called | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
Mr Begg a Jekyll and Hyde character - a trusted figure in his local | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
community, but when talking to predominantly Muslim audiences | :30:33. | :30:35. | |
he shed the cloak of respectability and revealed the horns of extremism. | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
The judge cited one speech made by Mr Begg at a rally | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
outside Belmarsh Prisonm- the high security prison that houses | :30:44. | :30:45. | |
terrorists - as particularly sinister. | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
The judge said the imam was expressing admiration and praise | :30:50. | :30:51. | |
Following Friday's judgment, the hospital trust have told us that | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
Mr Begg's status as a voluntary chaplain has been terminated. | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
We have been told by Lewisham Council he is no longer | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
on their Religious Education Committee. | :31:06. | :31:07. | |
The Metropolitan Police have confirmed that | :31:08. | :31:09. | |
Mr Begg remains a member of their Independent Advisory Group | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
in Lewisham, as well as the borough's faith group. | :31:15. | :31:23. | |
I am joined by Haras Rafiq, chief executive of the Quilliam | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
Foundation. Welcome to the programme. I have here in my hand a | :31:28. | :31:35. | |
statement from the trustees of the Lewisham Islamic Centre. They reject | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
the judge's ruling as fanciful and say they are unequivocal and | :31:42. | :31:43. | |
unwavering in their support of Shakeel Begg as their head imam | :31:44. | :31:50. | |
What do you make of that? To be honest, it doesn't surprise me. At | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
the end of the day he is only the imam of that mosque because he | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
belongs to the same theological fundamentalist views that the mosque | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
would portray. If they were to say he was an extremist, they would be | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
saying in fact that they have allowed extremist preaching and | :32:09. | :32:11. | |
extremist theology within their walls. I think this is a very | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
important decision and a very important judgment by the judge | :32:18. | :32:24. | |
First of all, these people like to operate in a linear, under a veneer | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
of respectability. When that veneer is taken away, there are a number of | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
things that can happen. First of all, the BBC did very well to stand | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
by their guns and say, we're not going to be intimidated by somebody | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
who is threatening to taking -- to take us to court for potential | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
libel. Many other media companies have done that in the past and | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
people have capitulated. Also, this has exposed him. Legally now, here's | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
some deal can be classified as an extremist preacher, somebody who | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
promotes religious violence. I think the mosque really needs to take a | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
step back and say, how we part of the problem that we are facing | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
within society? Or are we going to be part of the solution? It really | :33:11. | :33:18. | |
concerns me. The High Court judge says that Mr Begg's speeches were | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
consistent with an extremist Salafist is the most worldview. What | :33:24. | :33:31. | |
is Salafist is and how widespread is it in UK mosques? -- mosque. It | :33:32. | :33:41. | |
comes from the Middle East. It is from Saudi Arabia. The enemy for | :33:42. | :33:44. | |
them was the old colonial Ottoman Empire. There is the quiet Salafist | :33:45. | :33:53. | |
to get some with their lives, lives outside society. There is a | :33:54. | :33:55. | |
revolutionary who tries to convert other people to their worldview And | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
then there is the Salafist jihad ease. People like Islamic State etc. | :34:00. | :34:06. | |
We have seen of increased in recent decades because of money that has, | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
growing from the Middle East. When that is mixed with a political | :34:10. | :34:15. | |
ideology, it becomes potent. Do we have a political -- particular | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
problem in Britain with this in our mosques? Absolutely. Without the | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
theology that says hate the other, hate other Muslims, that | :34:26. | :34:27. | |
excommunicate other people, that says it is OK to fight and is good | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
to fight when you have got an enemy, we wouldn't really have a jihadi | :34:34. | :34:36. | |
problem. Really that is something we have to tackle. The number of | :34:37. | :34:44. | |
mosques and institutions supporting Salafist and Islam is has been on | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
the increase. Do we have a problem with what the judge called Jekyll | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
and Hyde characters who hide their extremism except when they are | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
speaking to specific groups? Absolutely. One of the things we | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
have focused on in the past, a number of hate preachers now in | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
prison, people like Anjem Choudary, and everybody focused on them. But | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
there is a range of people operating under that level. People who will | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
show one face to the community because they actually need that for | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
a respectability. They need that for a legitimacy. They need that to | :35:23. | :35:25. | |
operate. When they are behind closed doors and talking to their | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
constitution, that is when you will see the real face of what these | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
people believe. It is an increasing phenomenon. We are seeing it more. | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
And we're going to carry on seeing it. Not just has the Lewisham mosque | :35:39. | :35:46. | |
stuck by him, but given the clarity of the judge's ruling, are you | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
surprised that the Metropolitan police would wish to continue with | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
Mr Begg as an adviser? I'm absolutely shocked that that | :35:56. | :35:58. | |
decision. What Uzzy going to do Advise them on how to deal with | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
extremist preachers and promote religiously motivated violence? I | :36:05. | :36:06. | |
don't know what he's going to advise them on. Because we now have a judge | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
that has ruled against him and actually classified him as an | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
extremist and somebody who promotes religious violence, we actually have | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
a possibility for the CPS to actually prosecute him. There is a | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
law that has been in place since 2005 called religiously motivated | :36:26. | :36:28. | |
violence. If he has been classified as somebody who promotes this, there | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
is a potential for the CPS to prosecute. I want to called into | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
question other organisations, interfaith organisations, other | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
Muslims groups, who say they want to fight extremism, I call on them to | :36:42. | :36:47. | |
say, this guy is an extremist preacher, we should cut our ties | :36:48. | :36:56. | |
from him. This was a very high risk strategy by the BBC. The exposure | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
could have been over ?1.5 million of licence payers money. Will this make | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
it more difficult for Jekyll and Hyde characters to behave as Mr Begg | :37:07. | :37:13. | |
has behaved? Absolutely. It will do. One of the things they will now have | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
to make sure is that they are a lot more careful. Careful with what they | :37:18. | :37:24. | |
say to their own constituency. It won't solve the theological problem. | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
But it will actually stop other people from operating in this manner | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
and allow other media organisations to have the confidence to expose | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
them when they do. Haras Rafiq, thank you for joining us. | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :37:40. | :37:41. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :37:42. | :37:43. | |
I am Lucy Fisher. the Week Ahead. | :37:44. | :37:59. | |
Coming up on the Sunday Polhtics in the south-west. | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
The devolution party is over, as councillors hoping for more | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
money and power are told they must have a mayor. | :38:06. | :38:13. | |
And for the next 20 minutes I'm joined by St Ives MP Derek Thomas, | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
Let's start with the 70 child refugees brought to North Ddvon this | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
Welcomed by many in Torrington, but not all. | :38:23. | :38:31. | |
We are a local, small, close-knit community | :38:32. | :38:33. | |
We cannot look after our own, so why look after everybody else? | :38:34. | :38:45. | |
Apparently they will not be here very long, sent | :38:46. | :38:48. | |
Wednesday, I was told, but that is too long. | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
So, this man's is not the only point of view but there are | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
a significant number of people who feel the same as him. | :38:57. | :38:59. | |
I have been an MP for 18 months and I have had many, many... | :39:00. | :39:07. | |
The refugee crisis has been a live issue. | :39:08. | :39:09. | |
I have had many people cont`ct me and see me and e-mail me. | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
They have all wanted to do the best we can. | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
Whenever there is a crisis we and the government | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
I think it is really import`nt that we make sure the resources | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
are there to help these young people, and we're talking | :39:25. | :39:26. | |
about girls, young girls and children under 13, | :39:27. | :39:28. | |
There has been some discusshon about the ages and how well | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
You say that there haven't been people who have | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
spoken to you in that way, but there was a Facebook page | :39:38. | :39:39. | |
that was taken down this wedk because of the number | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
Will you be listening to those people? | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
Firstly, they are not coming to me, but it is important to note | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
that the unaccompanied children are mostly the vulnerable ones. | :39:52. | :39:53. | |
The ones we saw on TV a couple of weeks ago people who havd | :39:54. | :40:01. | |
But we're talking about young lives that for whatever reason have got | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
in a horrendous situation because of things out | :40:09. | :40:10. | |
of their control and out of other peoples control. | :40:11. | :40:12. | |
Linda, what would you say to these people? | :40:13. | :40:14. | |
Well, first of all can I just say I think there will be so many people | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
in Torrington who will be shck to see their community | :40:19. | :40:20. | |
represented by somebody with views like that. | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
In some ways, I kind of feel sorry for that man. | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
I do, because when he says it is not our problem, | :40:29. | :40:30. | |
actually we are an ageing population in this peninsul`, | :40:31. | :40:33. | |
Our health service is staffdd by a large number of people who come | :40:34. | :40:40. | |
here seeking work as refugeds and asylum seekers. | :40:41. | :40:42. | |
We need to have a lot broader minds | :40:43. | :40:44. | |
Here is the Prime Minister touching down at Newquay on Thursday. | :40:45. | :40:55. | |
Cornwall's airport was named as one of six which could get | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
new London landing slots because of Heathrow expansion. | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
Mrs May had a roundtable discussion with local businesses | :41:05. | :41:06. | |
about the new opportunities her decision to expand | :41:07. | :41:08. | |
The announcement had them dreaming in Plymouth as well, | :41:09. | :41:15. | |
where campaigners are battlhng to reopen the city's airport | :41:16. | :41:17. | |
But their hopes have been ddalt a blow by the leaking | :41:18. | :41:27. | |
of a long-awaited government report which says they need a ?9 mhllion | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
Five years after it closed, the future of Plymouth airport | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
But only this week campaigndrs bidding to reopen were given renewed | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
hope when the government announced that Heathrow will get | :41:42. | :41:43. | |
To get back into Heathrow once again, it would be transforlational | :41:44. | :41:56. | |
and underline the future of the airport for decades. | :41:57. | :41:58. | |
There have been various studies with opposing views. | :41:59. | :42:05. | |
But now the BBC can reveal that a new draft report from | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
the Department for Transport, which reviewed all the prevhous | :42:09. | :42:10. | |
studies, has concluded therd is not sufficient demand to operatd | :42:11. | :42:12. | |
commercially viable passengdr services from a reopened | :42:13. | :42:14. | |
Plymouth City Airport without government subsidy. | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
That is effectively saying ht is not viable again, isn't it? | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
No, they are not published at the moment, but what thex said | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
was would not be viable without government support | :42:29. | :42:29. | |
That is because we said we would like to see region`l air | :42:30. | :42:43. | |
connectivity fund support for developing the routes, | :42:44. | :42:45. | |
to get them to break even in the early years. | :42:46. | :42:47. | |
Suffer them to come back and say we do not know how it can | :42:48. | :42:50. | |
be viable seems to me a strange kind of language. | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
Fly Plymouth claimed they could reopen airport | :42:54. | :42:55. | |
without any subsidy, yet the plan they submitted | :42:56. | :42:56. | |
to the Department for Transport would require ?4 million | :42:57. | :42:59. | |
in government loans at launch, and a further ?5 million to cover | :43:00. | :43:02. | |
Looks to me and anyone else, you are asking for 9 | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
You have to distinguish between the nature of subsidies | :43:07. | :43:09. | |
If it were to reopen the government would reasonably expect to be | :43:10. | :43:16. | |
involved in supporting the start-up of that to profit to ensure it | :43:17. | :43:19. | |
Government regularly supports the start-up and recommissioning | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
of new transport projects, so I think the two are very | :43:23. | :43:24. | |
The local MP Johnny Mercer wants the final report published `s soon | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
as possible to bring an end to the uncertainty. | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
The government has made it clear, as has the local authority, | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
that no subsidies are avail`ble for this airport, so that c`nnot | :43:39. | :43:40. | |
operate without a subsidy, then I think we need to havd a look | :43:41. | :43:43. | |
at that and decide where we go from there. | :43:44. | :43:46. | |
So, for now the uncertainty continues. | :43:47. | :43:49. | |
The Department for Transport says the final study will be | :43:50. | :43:51. | |
Plymouth City Council says while it is seeking to protdct | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
the airport in its local pl`n, its future will ultimately be | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
decided by an independent inspector next summer. | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
And Sutton Harbour Holdings which leases the airport | :44:04. | :44:05. | |
from the council says it will continue with its plans | :44:06. | :44:07. | |
Meanwhile the Prime Minister touched down at Newquay airport on Thursday, | :44:08. | :44:19. | |
which will benefit from Heathrow's expansion. | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
As she announced increased health funding for the south-west, | :44:23. | :44:24. | |
it looks more like Plymouth airport's malaise could be terminal. | :44:25. | :44:33. | |
Derek, you were with Theres` May yesterday in Newquay. | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
Do you think to some extent that she is hoping we will forget | :44:37. | :44:39. | |
about our train line by makhng announcements about the airport | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
I was delighted to welcome the prime to Cornwall so soon | :44:45. | :44:51. | |
so soon after becoming PM, it was a fantastic indication | :44:52. | :44:54. | |
But actually I do not think that was her intention at all. | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
There is a real mix of transport infrastructure we must get | :44:59. | :45:01. | |
right in the south-west, including the railway and roads | :45:02. | :45:04. | |
and including obviously the flying with aeroplanes. | :45:05. | :45:06. | |
Is new slots to Heathrow the solution here, could yot not | :45:07. | :45:09. | |
expand so that you actually have more flights abroad without having | :45:10. | :45:11. | |
Certainly we would welcome `nything we can to improve the econoly | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
and get people moving to Cornwall, in particular West Cornwall, | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
but I think we still need to link to London and I think the ilproved | :45:23. | :45:29. | |
the improved rail journeys, both the times... | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
Well, you asked about whethdr airport was a distraction from | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
Yes, with the Dawlish section of line and the improvements. | :45:40. | :45:55. | |
A task force has been working on the strategy, we are going to be | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
presenting that to the government this autumn, and we're ambitious | :46:00. | :46:02. | |
It is going to take time, but transport is about all these | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
things, the roads, the A30 being a dual carriageway | :46:07. | :46:08. | |
all the way to Penzance, that is what I'm arguing for. | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
When you were an MP in Plymouth the airport | :46:14. | :46:14. | |
Do you think Plymouth will now suffer at the hands of Newqtay, | :46:15. | :46:18. | |
money will go to Newquay rather than Plymouth City Airport? | :46:19. | :46:28. | |
Well, it was that in the beginning which undermined Plymouth when | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
Flybe started running flights in front of the ones | :46:32. | :46:33. | |
that hopped over from Plymouth | :46:34. | :46:34. | |
to Newquay, got enough passengers to keep it going. | :46:35. | :46:37. | |
I have an adjournment debatd in Parliament, I championed airport, | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
and there were I think 130 plus thousand people flying | :46:41. | :46:42. | |
Fly Plymouth will obviously be mindful that they would havd that | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
kind of cooperation again in order to get the numbers up. | :46:48. | :46:49. | |
Do you think it can ever happen can we forget Plymouth City Airport | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
and concentrate on the two others, Exeter and Newquay? | :46:53. | :46:54. | |
There are loads of hurdles to overcome and that one. | :46:55. | :47:00. | |
We thought we had come to the point where we were given | :47:01. | :47:03. | |
The railway is absolutely vhtal not just about improvement but | :47:04. | :47:10. | |
about keeping that bit of connectivity, | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
and our connectivity is fragile, open. | :47:14. | :47:15. | |
Back to the three airports, do we need them or should | :47:16. | :47:18. | |
Well, I think Fly Plymouth obviously have to put | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
They have owned up to the f`ct that they need some sort of subsidy, | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
We are talking 9 million, Ddrek to reopen Plymouth airport. | :47:30. | :47:42. | |
It actually doesn't sound like that much money. | :47:43. | :47:49. | |
But you will be familiar with the helicopter link, | :47:50. | :47:51. | |
or what was, from Penzance to the Isles of Scilly. | :47:52. | :47:53. | |
I tried to get some subsidy for that, which is a really | :47:54. | :47:56. | |
important link, but it was not available or forthcoming. | :47:57. | :47:58. | |
Sometimes we have to stop looking always to the government | :47:59. | :48:10. | |
or the councils to give grants and make the business case. | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
It is galling for people down here, I know we had assurances th`t | :48:15. | :48:17. | |
infrastructure will be lookdd at, but to see the kind of monex | :48:18. | :48:20. | |
being spent on HS2 and up to the north, when you cannot get | :48:21. | :48:23. | |
the money to prop open your airport or to fix the link at Dawlish. | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
Well, that is absolutely right, and if we're going to get the khnd of | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
growth we have potential for, and productivity, then we need to solve | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
these problems and get coopdration both from government but also within | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
the communities, to make our connectivity across the piece is | :48:43. | :48:49. | |
good it -- as good as it can get. If the people of Plymouth can lake this | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
happen, that will be good for the economy, but we the governmdnt needs | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
to concentrate on really good road infrastructure, rail infrastructure. | :49:00. | :49:02. | |
But the money has to come from somewhere. And there is mondy.. It | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
was very disappointing that Theresa May was not giving more substance to | :49:08. | :49:12. | |
the money that will be needdd for the Dawlish bit of the line. That is | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
important for you in Cornwall as well. But the strategy is not before | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
the government yet. She is talking about much less money than hs needed | :49:24. | :49:29. | |
to do it. So we're still wahting to hear the confirmation of th`t. | :49:30. | :49:32. | |
Council leaders in the South West have reacted angrily to comlents | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
made by the community secretary during a visit to is Exeter last | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
week. Sergei Javid told thel that if they wanted more money and power, | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
south-west powerhouse lead by one south-west powerhouse lead by one | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
person. He said the devoluthon deal was not ambitious, and if the | :49:52. | :49:54. | |
council wanted to make a difference, they had to have a major. | :49:55. | :50:03. | |
July seemed to bring a new dawn for local government. This is a very big | :50:04. | :50:06. | |
deal. Cornwall is the first county to get these new powers. Cornwall | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
had just secured the first lajor devolution deal outside the big | :50:11. | :50:15. | |
cities. Powers over adult training, economic development, bus rdgulation | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
Lingle Don. I was delighted to Lingle Don. I was delighted to | :50:21. | :50:29. | |
travel down with the Prime Linister to celebrate it and to do so over a | :50:30. | :50:34. | |
paint that evening. In fact, the government spent a year and more | :50:35. | :50:41. | |
toasting the flagship Cornish devolution deal, and suggesting the | :50:42. | :50:44. | |
county's trailblazing for uncle rural areas wanting to get ` slice | :50:45. | :50:50. | |
of the action. Suddenly, thd beer now seems to have turned rather | :50:51. | :51:02. | |
sour. Unambitious deal, and frankly the Cornwall one was not ambitious, | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
did not include any money, had few hours, so they will no one that got | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
away with not having a mayor, so you have got to ask yourself wh`t is the | :51:13. | :51:15. | |
point of going down this ro`d in unless you want to make a | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
difference, and if you do, xou have to have a mayor. I very much object | :51:20. | :51:28. | |
to being threatened and being told we will do this with you but only if | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
you organise it this way. I think that is wrong. We do not do that. We | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
talked about what the deal would be and what we can relinquish, we talk | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
about how we can do things, but we do not say, but you must do it in | :51:43. | :51:45. | |
this manner, and I do not think government should be saying that to | :51:46. | :51:52. | |
us either. It is the cider drinking counties of Devon and Somerset who | :51:53. | :51:55. | |
have been warned by the comlunity secretary not to drink from the same | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
cup as the unambitious Cornhsh. They want to secure a joint devolution | :52:02. | :52:04. | |
deal for the two counties, but the one thing they will not swallow is | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
an elected mayor. Three months ago it was all smiles and celebrations | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
as the government assure thdm they did not need to have a mayor. But | :52:16. | :52:21. | |
the party is over now. From anyone who wants ambitious and deal, they | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
have to have a mayor. He made it clear at the beginning that for in | :52:26. | :52:30. | |
order for us to have the money and power, we had to have a mayor. | :52:31. | :52:33. | |
Afterwards I spoke to him, `nd said Afterwards I spoke to him, `nd said | :52:34. | :52:41. | |
that this is a nonstarter. @mong the collective hangover, voices in the | :52:42. | :52:44. | |
business community say that accepting a mayor could be the only | :52:45. | :52:47. | |
way to make the good times roll again. This is the important message | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
for the public sector leaders. If we're going to unlock the btsiness | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
investment, and it is a hugd appetite to do that, business will | :52:58. | :53:00. | |
invest, they need strong le`dership, they need to steer from a cdntral | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
person, the mayor, to make sure they understand exactly where we are | :53:06. | :53:12. | |
going with our plans for thd future. With the community secretarx's | :53:13. | :53:15. | |
comments casting a long shadow over the South West's existing ddvolution | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
plans, councillors seem detdrmined to walk their own regardless. The | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
question, whether that is ddstined to see them run into the sand. So, | :53:23. | :53:29. | |
what is this obsession the Tories have with Mayers question -, | :53:30. | :53:45. | |
mayors?. The money and the power goes with the mayor, you cannot have | :53:46. | :53:48. | |
the money empowered if you do not have one, why? This was passed by | :53:49. | :53:55. | |
all parties. But why? They have decided that is the way to get the | :53:56. | :53:58. | |
economy working better. If xou look at the Cornish council, we have an | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
independent party led counchl, and over the last four years, I do not | :54:05. | :54:10. | |
see much they have done to help business. So many things thdy have | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
done of hindered business. H get so frustrated of people saying they are | :54:15. | :54:24. | |
not understanding --... Perhaps this is not the best way to go forward. | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
Which way do you see of going forward here? Do you think ht would | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
be beneficial for Devon to have a mayor? No, I do not. It is clear | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
that all people who have bedn working on the plans for thd | :54:38. | :54:41. | |
combined authority have identified what they cold the golden | :54:42. | :54:44. | |
opportunities. They have got a very clear idea of what they want to | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
deliver with new powers and money. And I think, I do not know what | :54:50. | :54:58. | |
constituents Sajid Javid represents, because we do not need top-down | :54:59. | :55:02. | |
and Cornwall Police is saying that and Cornwall Police is saying that | :55:03. | :55:06. | |
this is what we want to do `nd this is what we want to do it, then | :55:07. | :55:12. | |
hopefully MPs will be standhng up that. -- people in. An easidr | :55:13. | :55:28. | |
solution would settle all this. We have a council election in Lay, let | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
us ask the people of Cornwall whether they want a mayor are not. | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
It does not need to be a referendum, it could be what each polithcal | :55:39. | :55:40. | |
party sets before the peopld. It was rejected in Plymouth when there was | :55:41. | :55:42. | |
a request to foist a mayor on as. a request to foist a mayor on as. | :55:43. | :55:49. | |
And in Torbay it has not bedn a success. I am closely involved in | :55:50. | :55:55. | |
the devolution deal with John Pollock, and I know that many of the | :55:56. | :55:57. | |
things in these meetings do not things in these meetings do not | :55:58. | :55:59. | |
represent what people are tdlling me out and about, and people are | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
unclear about what the devolution deal is. We are serious abott health | :56:04. | :56:09. | |
and social care integration. That is because it is top-down, and the | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
structures are there aren't being developed, and listening to people | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
in a constructive way, but `t the moment somebody top-down from the | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
metropolitan elite telling people in Devon and Cornwall Police to do and | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
how is not what we need mord of Sounds like the opposite of | :56:29. | :56:29. | |
devolution, someone telling Devon devolution, someone telling Devon | :56:30. | :56:35. | |
and Cornwall what to do. As we heard, the first area to have a | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
devolution deal, and there `re number things round transport, | :56:40. | :56:46. | |
Sergei Javid said it did not involve Sergei Javid said it did not involve | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
money, what is the point of going down that route? -- Sajid J`vid I | :56:51. | :56:58. | |
cannot see why it would be ` problem. I was on the progr`mme with | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
the leader when this was behng put forward. The problem with the deal | :57:03. | :57:05. | |
is because they went early `nd too quickly. They put it togethdr in a | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
hurry, and I said at the tile that I didn't think it would be a good | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
thing for them to be amongst the first. They seem to think it was a | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
good idea but I think they would have been better waiting, crafting | :57:19. | :57:20. | |
it together more carefully. If it is not working now, I do not think that | :57:21. | :57:25. | |
is lack of the mayor, it is lack of care and attention to getting the | :57:26. | :57:28. | |
programme right in the beginning. We have to move on. It is time for our | :57:29. | :57:32. | |
round-up of the political wdek in 60 seconds. | :57:33. | :57:39. | |
On a visit to Cornwall, the Prime Minister says decisions abott | :57:40. | :57:46. | |
cutting health services must be made locally. We're going to see over the | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
next two years, up to 2020, a significant amount of extra money | :57:52. | :57:59. | |
being put into the south-west for health services. What the hdalth | :58:00. | :58:04. | |
service is now doing is talking to local areas about how that hs going | :58:05. | :58:07. | |
to be spent and what servicds will be provided in different ardas. A | :58:08. | :58:10. | |
council decision to paint the double yellow line in the middle of a road | :58:11. | :58:13. | |
is raised in the Commons by the South East Cornwall MP. Can you tell | :58:14. | :58:20. | |
nobody can do about this? Tdll them to vote Conservative! The pdople of | :58:21. | :58:25. | |
Torquay be tall -- are told there will be no Christmas lights this | :58:26. | :58:28. | |
year after the responsibility for funding them was handed to the | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
Chamber of Commerce. That mhght mean job losses and shops closing, it | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
might mean developers will take one look at Torquay and say we do not | :58:37. | :58:44. | |
want to know. OK, Linda, we heard Theresa May say that there would be | :58:45. | :58:47. | |
more money for the region for health services, albeit that difficult | :58:48. | :58:49. | |
decisions would have to be lade locally about it. Where you | :58:50. | :58:57. | |
reassured by that? I thought she would very uncomfortable herself | :58:58. | :58:57. | |
when she said that, and it hs very when she said that, and it hs very | :58:58. | :59:02. | |
sad that some quite good pl`ns for the transformation of the hdalth | :59:03. | :59:05. | |
service are being made against a background of cuts. She is seeing | :59:06. | :59:11. | |
more money, but more money when exactly? Is it now or later? Is an | :59:12. | :59:21. | |
hour later? I do not think ht is a lot because she was seeing difficult | :59:22. | :59:24. | |
decisions would have to be lade I have been involved in the | :59:25. | :59:28. | |
transformation plan, and I see it not as a way to cut the cost of | :59:29. | :59:33. | |
funding but to integrate services so you prayed I'd better service to | :59:34. | :59:40. | |
people. -- back to provide. Once we have the transformation plan | :59:41. | :59:44. | |
together, there is a pot of money, ?8 billion, available for us to bid | :59:45. | :59:48. | |
so we can transform services before we see others. That is not `ll for | :59:49. | :59:57. | |
Cornwall. There were MPs lining up to attack plans to cut beds and | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
hospitals. If you look at Cornwall, most people agree that we h`ve beds | :00:03. | :00:06. | |
in the wrong place and not dnough in the right place. So what we are | :00:07. | :00:09. | |
arguing for those looking at what beds we have across the system and | :00:10. | :00:15. | |
making sure they really work. I need to stop because we want to talk | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
about the Christmas lights hn Torquay briefly. No Christm`s | :00:20. | :00:22. | |
lights. Is listening sample of weird it would have been better to have | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
left it to the council? I think a lot of people will be saying yes, | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
but clearly the right hand hasn t been speaking to the left and people | :00:31. | :00:35. | |
have not been getting together. I think it is desperately sad and hope | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
that local people can be innovative and coming up with ways. It seems so | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
sad. Voluntary groups do a fantastic Barely more than a week | :00:45. | :00:57. | |
now until polling day, and a new revelation rocks the US | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
Presidential election campaign. If it wasn't bizarre enough, it just | :01:02. | :01:11. | |
got more bizarre. The FBI have reopened their | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
investigation into Hillary Clinton's use of private email servers | :01:16. | :01:17. | |
whilst she was Secretary of State, after the discovery | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
of further emails. Though not on her laptop or even the | :01:20. | :01:27. | |
State Department. Donald Trump is saying that it's | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
bigger than Watergate - so could it swing the election | :01:33. | :01:34. | |
in his favour? We spoke to top US | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
pollster, Frank Luntz. The FBI investigation is happening | :01:38. | :01:38. | |
so late in the election process that it would be very difficult | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
to derail a Clinton victory. That said, if there is one thing | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
that could keep Hillary Clinton from the presidency, | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
it's an FBI investigation. But there's still only four states | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
that really matter, Florida, Ohio, Right now, Clinton has | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
beyond the margin of error leads This would have to have a truly | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
significant impact for the election There is a point about a week ago | :02:03. | :02:10. | |
when I was prepared to say that Clinton had a 95% chance | :02:11. | :02:17. | |
of winning this election. Based on what has happened | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
in the last 48 hours, It is still very likely, | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
but I wouldn't bet on it. I thought the 2000 election would be | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
the best election of my lifetime, And then I thought 2008 would be | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
amazing, because we had two challenger candidates and the first | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
African-American President. It is ugly, it's painful, | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
it is as negative as anything The public is angry, | :02:46. | :02:54. | |
the country, overall, is frustrated. But for entertainment value, | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
these candidates probably should have charged us money, | :03:00. | :03:06. | |
because it's better than any movie at ever seen, it's | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
better than any TV show. That was Frank Luntz. He may be | :03:11. | :03:23. | |
right or wrong about Mrs Clinton still having an 80% chance of | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
winning. I would bet on an 80% chance? Yes, absolutely. I spoke to | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
a high-profile American pollster and strategist last night and he took a | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
rather different view to Frank Luntz. He thought, and I think some | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
other high-profile commentators agree, that this is actually much | :03:45. | :03:46. | |
more serious than some people realise. There are an awful lot of | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
undecided voters out there looking for an excuse to vote Trump. They do | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
not like what they see in either candidate. But because this FBI | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
probe is not going to conclude before the election, the question, | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
the doubt over Hillary Clinton, gives them an excuse to back Trump. | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
The thing that will play on the minds of the voters is, could the | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
100 day honeymoon turning to the 100 day divorce? Which even be | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
impeached? It may give some people an excuse not to vote for Mrs | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
Clinton. It could provide a problem in terms of energising her base The | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
battle ground almost matters more than the polls. Florida and | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
Pennsylvania have been trending to Mrs Clinton. Mr Trump needs to win | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
both. He does not get in without both. He needs both. Just coming up | :04:44. | :04:52. | |
in the latest BBC News, the Washington Post tracking poll, Mrs | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
Clinton is now only one point ahead in the national poll. One point | :04:56. | :05:03. | |
Even given my caveat that the state battles are most important. That is | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
incredibly close? It is. Polls yesterday showed Trump nationally | :05:10. | :05:16. | |
closing of. -- up. There is a clear trend and movement. This has | :05:17. | :05:18. | |
reinforced everything that people who have a problem with Hillary | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
Clinton know about Hillary Clinton. Trump is running this insurgent | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
campaign. We have seen at here with Brexit. If you are running an | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
insurgent campaign, you want to be against the ultimate establishment | :05:34. | :05:35. | |
insider and that is what Hillary Clinton is. I suggested it was | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
bizarre. Fathoming the behaviour of the FBI is interesting as well. This | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
is a separate investigation into a former congressman, Anthony Wiener, | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
who had done all sorts of things. He seemed to be sex text thing a minor. | :05:51. | :05:59. | |
A 15-year-old girl. The FBI investigate. They get his laptop to | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
see what else he has been too. In the course of that, his wife, now | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
separated, the closest adviser to Hillary Clinton, they find on the | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
laptop e-mails involving the Clinton server to her. And yet the FBI | :06:16. | :06:26. | |
cannot, it needs now a separate warrant to access these e-mails It | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
hasn't got that yet. It has got a warrant to do the congressman | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
e-mails. On the basis of not knowing the content, this has happened. | :06:35. | :06:41. | |
Yeah. Who knows? He is a Republican, this guy. Earlier this year he was | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
being praised to the hilt by Democrats. Absolutely. The timing is | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
a nightmare for her. You described the whole sequence. There is nothing | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
definitive to doubt in this sequence. All he is saying is he has | :06:59. | :07:06. | |
discovered more e-mails in effect. They are from the congressman's | :07:07. | :07:13. | |
former wife. On Anthony Wiener's laptop, which apparently she used | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
sometimes. But what that shows is that for all the scrutiny of modern | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
politicians, they cannot escape caricature. And as Tim was just | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
saying, her weakness is perceived to be secretive, elitism and | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
complacency about that elitism. And so just the announcement of a | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
reopening of the investigation so fuels that caricature, you have just | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
revealed a poll giving her a 1% lead. That must be related to what | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
has happened. It is without a shred of evidence that she has done | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
anything wrong. You can see how because people only see things | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
encourage kids, that is deadly serious. -- in caricature. An | :07:58. | :08:04. | |
American friend of mine said we have got our October surprise but we | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
don't know what it is. The FBI must surely come under massive pressure. | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
It did its -- it did this against the Justice Department. The | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
difficulty the FBI had was that this information, for what it's worth, it | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
came to them. Were they not to have said something and it worked to have | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
come out later, they would have been accused of a massive cover-up. They | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
are dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. There is still time for | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
another surprise. And early November surprise. Who knows if there might | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
still be something that comes out on Donald Trump? This is the first | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
election where I can remember we have had two October surprises | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
already. There are is stuff about tapes knocking around about Donald | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
Trump saying racist things. The Clintons have got a lot of friends. | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
It would be a big surprise if we did not see anything else in the next | :09:03. | :09:04. | |
few days. Just when you think it could not get | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
more interesting, it has. There has been plenty in the papers lately | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
about the Ukip leadership saying unpleasant things about each other. | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
But what about Mr Farage himself? What's he up to? | :09:17. | :09:19. | |
Well, on BBC Two tonight we may find out the answer. | :09:20. | :09:21. | |
Well, I'm led to believe she's very experienced. | :09:22. | :09:28. | |
But I don't think Strictly Come Dancing is for me. | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
That is, unless, of course, you fancy popping a cheeky zero | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
No, I don't think Strictly Come Dancing is for me. | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
Well, you tell Mr Balls he has just lost your programme one viewer. | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
I might have nothing to do these days but, realistically, | :09:48. | :09:55. | |
Well, that wasn't Nigel Farage. It is a BBC comedy on tonight. Nigel | :09:56. | :10:12. | |
Farage gets his life back. A number of runners and riders. Let's come | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
straight down to it. Who would be the next leader of Ukip? Probably | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
Paul Nuttall. He is the favourite. The one who has the backing, not | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
very enthusiastic backing, is Rahim Cassandra. And also Aaron Banks a | :10:29. | :10:35. | |
big donor. The best of a rather weak lot. I think Paul Nuttall should | :10:36. | :10:42. | |
squeak through. I interviewed all three of them this week. Mr | :10:43. | :10:53. | |
Cassandra is a lively character and he knows how to make a few | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
headlines. With a bit of money behind him, anything is possible. | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
This is a guy who has been to the States, who has literally studied | :11:02. | :11:11. | |
what Trump has done. Pees on secondment for the time being. The | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
guy who is his line manager is one of Donald Trump's campaign stop He | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
is extraordinarily right-wing. I am told he kept a picture of Enoch | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
Powell by his bed. Barry Goldwater is one of his heroes, for example. | :11:27. | :11:37. | |
There are other candidates. I would suggest, put out as a hypothesis, | :11:38. | :11:44. | |
Paul Nuttall is Labour's worst nightmare. They are more vulnerable | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
in the North. Paul Nuttall is from Merseyside, a working-class | :11:50. | :11:51. | |
background, performs well on television. He is a really good | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
interviewee. He is one of the best around in politics at the moment. | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
However, I think whoever gets it has a massive task. The clip of this | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
Nigel Farage satire partly shows why. His dominance was overwhelming. | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
He, in many ways, did a brilliant job at keeping the show on the road. | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
The trouble for all new political parties is keeping it going is | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
tough. A very different party, the SDP, with all those glamorous | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
figures in it, lasted eight years, something like that. I think they | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
are in real trouble at the moment because of the implosion we have | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
been seeing in front of our eyes and the ideal -- ideological splits | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
Whoever gets it will face a tough tussle. All three of the main | :12:40. | :12:48. | |
contenders want to put Nigel Farage in the House of Lords. They were | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
falling over themselves to soak up two farads. That is how you win this | :12:54. | :12:56. | |
election. Mr Aaron Banks, who is he putting | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
his money on? He said he supports Rahim. I know Mr Banks is utterly | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
fed with the shenanigans in Ukip. He thinks it is terribly disorganised, | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
dysfunctional and doesn't want a great deal to do with it for the | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
foreseeable future. It is not quite Trump the Clinton | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
but it is interesting. That is it. The Daily Politics is back tomorrow. | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
And all of next week. Jo Coburn will be your next Sunday because I am off | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
to the United States to begin to rehearse presenting the BBC's US | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
election night coverage on the th of November. It will be here on BBC | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
One, BBC world, BBC News Channel and BBC | :13:39. | :13:39. | |
online. Remember if it's Sunday, | :13:40. | :13:41. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:42. | :13:47. |