22/01/2017 Sunday Politics South West


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS


22/01/2017

Andrew Neil, Lucie Fisher and shadow home secretary Diane Abbott provide reaction to Theresa May's Brexit speech and look at the inauguration of US president Donald Trump.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 22/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:35.:00:37.

Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US

:00:38.:00:41.

President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very

:00:42.:00:43.

frank" conversations with the new and controversial

:00:44.:00:47.

Speaking of the 45th President of America,

:00:48.:00:54.

we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold

:00:55.:00:57.

in store for Britain and the rest of the world.

:00:58.:01:03.

And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should

:01:04.:01:06.

have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask

:01:07.:01:09.

In the south-west, libraries facing what Labour will do next.

:01:10.:01:33.

And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three

:01:34.:01:36.

journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be

:01:37.:01:39.

relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality -

:01:40.:01:42.

and their willingness to come to the studio

:01:43.:01:45.

It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer

:01:46.:01:52.

and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be

:01:53.:01:58.

tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle

:01:59.:02:02.

So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning.

:02:03.:02:12.

She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit,

:02:13.:02:14.

but she was also asked about a story on the front of this

:02:15.:02:17.

It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired

:02:18.:02:21.

from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June

:02:22.:02:27.

The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons

:02:28.:02:36.

Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking

:02:37.:02:40.

The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons

:02:41.:02:45.

It was about whether or not we should renew Trident,

:02:46.:02:49.

whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident.

:02:50.:02:52.

That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons.

:02:53.:02:55.

That's what the House of Commons voted for.

:02:56.:02:57.

He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent

:02:58.:03:03.

There are tests that take place all the time, regularly,

:03:04.:03:10.

What we were talking about in that debate that took place...

:03:11.:03:18.

I'm not going to get an answer to this.

:03:19.:03:26.

Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the

:03:27.:03:32.

front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister

:03:33.:03:37.

wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but

:03:38.:03:43.

the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all

:03:44.:03:46.

questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all.

:03:47.:03:54.

Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You

:03:55.:04:01.

read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr

:04:02.:04:06.

four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went

:04:07.:04:10.

into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion

:04:11.:04:16.

replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it

:04:17.:04:19.

have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons.

:04:20.:04:26.

If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are

:04:27.:04:31.

matters of national security. There's nothing more important in

:04:32.:04:34.

that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing.

:04:35.:04:41.

End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a

:04:42.:04:46.

good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she

:04:47.:04:52.

is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions,

:04:53.:04:56.

and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know

:04:57.:05:01.

and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider

:05:02.:05:05.

point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident,

:05:06.:05:10.

suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run,

:05:11.:05:15.

because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again.

:05:16.:05:22.

But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent

:05:23.:05:27.

awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the

:05:28.:05:32.

missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her

:05:33.:05:37.

comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often

:05:38.:05:41.

struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and

:05:42.:05:48.

we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the

:05:49.:05:52.

missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000.

:05:53.:05:57.

What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests

:05:58.:06:01.

they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles

:06:02.:06:09.

work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have

:06:10.:06:17.

known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job

:06:18.:06:22.

on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some

:06:23.:06:28.

would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people

:06:29.:06:34.

from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by

:06:35.:06:39.

mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing

:06:40.:06:44.

as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are

:06:45.:06:50.

going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime

:06:51.:06:54.

Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on

:06:55.:07:00.

Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If

:07:01.:07:03.

anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call!

:07:04.:07:07.

So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing

:07:08.:07:09.

to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th

:07:10.:07:12.

President of the United States he certainly did do it his way.

:07:13.:07:15.

Not for him the idealistic call for national unity -

:07:16.:07:17.

instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering

:07:18.:07:19.

attack on the dark state of the nation and the political

:07:20.:07:23.

class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach

:07:24.:07:27.

from the campaign trail to the White House.

:07:28.:07:31.

Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how

:07:32.:07:35.

First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange

:07:36.:07:43.

Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched

:07:44.:07:52.

I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear...

:07:53.:07:59.

The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations,

:08:00.:08:04.

the speech tougher then any previous incoming president.

:08:05.:08:08.

From this day forth, it's going to be only America first.

:08:09.:08:15.

In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC.

:08:16.:08:40.

Opponents made their voices heard around the world too.

:08:41.:08:44.

The President, who'd criticised the work of

:08:45.:08:46.

the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA.

:08:47.:08:51.

There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community

:08:52.:08:54.

And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled

:08:55.:09:06.

the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump.

:09:07.:09:12.

So, as you heard there, President Trump used his

:09:13.:09:18.

inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first"

:09:19.:09:21.

in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect

:09:22.:09:24.

He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and

:09:25.:09:40.

American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key

:09:41.:09:44.

parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care

:09:45.:09:49.

act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global

:09:50.:09:54.

warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate

:09:55.:09:59.

Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would

:10:00.:10:04.

restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also

:10:05.:10:09.

said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with

:10:10.:10:13.

threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a

:10:14.:10:19.

bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and

:10:20.:10:24.

order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building

:10:25.:10:29.

the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the

:10:30.:10:35.

first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who

:10:36.:10:37.

is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch -

:10:38.:10:40.

he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's

:10:41.:10:44.

choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's

:10:45.:10:45.

just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin -

:10:46.:10:48.

he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I

:10:49.:10:59.

made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval

:11:00.:11:06.

office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union

:11:07.:11:09.

integration. What are the implications of that? First of all,

:11:10.:11:15.

a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime

:11:16.:11:21.

Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already,

:11:22.:11:25.

the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office.

:11:26.:11:30.

Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an

:11:31.:11:34.

act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be

:11:35.:11:41.

oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral

:11:42.:11:51.

or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone

:11:52.:11:57.

in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the

:11:58.:12:02.

unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing

:12:03.:12:07.

called the west that America has led since the end of World War II,

:12:08.:12:15.

creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These

:12:16.:12:23.

institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was

:12:24.:12:28.

at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and

:12:29.:12:32.

prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When

:12:33.:12:37.

something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the

:12:38.:12:41.

consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new

:12:42.:12:45.

president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that

:12:46.:12:51.

so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and

:12:52.:12:56.

institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has

:12:57.:13:04.

argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more

:13:05.:13:09.

involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process

:13:10.:13:17.

with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama

:13:18.:13:23.

stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the

:13:24.:13:28.

world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers

:13:29.:13:32.

have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That

:13:33.:13:37.

power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are

:13:38.:13:42.

foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself

:13:43.:13:48.

around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some

:13:49.:13:52.

may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself,

:13:53.:13:58.

and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald

:13:59.:14:02.

Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be

:14:03.:14:06.

more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are

:14:07.:14:11.

tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are

:14:12.:14:16.

still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr

:14:17.:14:20.

Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that

:14:21.:14:30.

clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe

:14:31.:14:38.

in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral

:14:39.:14:42.

relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a

:14:43.:14:47.

president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly

:14:48.:14:54.

critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary

:14:55.:14:58.

of State, national security, do you think that will temper this

:14:59.:15:03.

anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation?

:15:04.:15:10.

I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world

:15:11.:15:16.

will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of

:15:17.:15:20.

State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge

:15:21.:15:26.

him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most

:15:27.:15:30.

successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is

:15:31.:15:37.

already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means

:15:38.:15:41.

you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these

:15:42.:15:47.

institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of

:15:48.:15:51.

millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about

:15:52.:15:53.

is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such

:15:54.:16:03.

an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian

:16:04.:16:12.

tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first.

:16:13.:16:15.

The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he

:16:16.:16:21.

said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in

:16:22.:16:25.

front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the

:16:26.:16:29.

solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That

:16:30.:16:33.

emphasis is going to change American life, including American

:16:34.:16:36.

International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't

:16:37.:16:45.

mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our

:16:46.:16:50.

national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's

:16:51.:16:54.

inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the

:16:55.:16:59.

White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a

:17:00.:17:02.

difference there. He also said something else in the address - that

:17:03.:17:08.

protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is

:17:09.:17:15.

no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting

:17:16.:17:21.

the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually

:17:22.:17:24.

think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If

:17:25.:17:31.

you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican

:17:32.:17:37.

senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover

:17:38.:17:46.

administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see

:17:47.:17:51.

how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is

:17:52.:17:54.

a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in

:17:55.:18:00.

bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's

:18:01.:18:05.

also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this

:18:06.:18:11.

election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history

:18:12.:18:18.

and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a

:18:19.:18:26.

mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more

:18:27.:18:30.

trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the

:18:31.:18:35.

world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's

:18:36.:18:38.

leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great

:18:39.:18:43.

businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is

:18:44.:18:48.

debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from

:18:49.:18:52.

the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to

:18:53.:18:56.

reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both

:18:57.:19:03.

lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will

:19:04.:19:07.

walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese

:19:08.:19:11.

from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do

:19:12.:19:15.

that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war

:19:16.:19:20.

between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most

:19:21.:19:24.

important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't

:19:25.:19:28.

lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when

:19:29.:19:32.

you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China

:19:33.:19:37.

the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and

:19:38.:19:54.

Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos.

:19:55.:19:59.

Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he

:20:00.:20:05.

hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to

:20:06.:20:13.

him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting

:20:14.:20:16.

a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is

:20:17.:20:20.

why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United

:20:21.:20:26.

States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point

:20:27.:20:32.

of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern

:20:33.:20:35.

Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned

:20:36.:20:39.

to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat

:20:40.:20:45.

economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think

:20:46.:20:52.

Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown

:20:53.:20:57.

herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in

:20:58.:21:02.

Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of

:21:03.:21:06.

the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about

:21:07.:21:11.

dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has

:21:12.:21:16.

another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the

:21:17.:21:22.

American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone,

:21:23.:21:25.

including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find

:21:26.:21:31.

anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more

:21:32.:21:35.

important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like

:21:36.:21:39.

preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese

:21:40.:21:42.

and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear

:21:43.:21:49.

deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff

:21:50.:21:54.

and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we

:21:55.:21:57.

are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving

:21:58.:22:02.

into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that

:22:03.:22:06.

ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his

:22:07.:22:14.

inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he

:22:15.:22:16.

didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They

:22:17.:22:23.

are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's

:22:24.:22:27.

easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the

:22:28.:22:33.

United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things

:22:34.:22:37.

that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of

:22:38.:22:45.

State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful

:22:46.:22:48.

creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming

:22:49.:22:53.

and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to

:22:54.:22:56.

create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final

:22:57.:23:02.

word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up

:23:03.:23:06.

America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things

:23:07.:23:11.

that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call.

:23:12.:23:16.

His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's

:23:17.:23:20.

abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going

:23:21.:23:29.

to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that

:23:30.:23:33.

realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked

:23:34.:23:37.

on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90

:23:38.:23:43.

days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues.

:23:44.:23:49.

Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues.

:23:50.:23:52.

So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week -

:23:53.:23:55.

perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer

:23:56.:23:58.

claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit

:23:59.:24:00.

wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU.

:24:01.:24:03.

To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic -

:24:04.:24:05.

to her opponents it was full of contradictions

:24:06.:24:07.

Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how

:24:08.:24:11.

There are speeches, and there are speeches.

:24:12.:24:16.

Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading

:24:17.:24:19.

to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms

:24:20.:24:23.

This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade

:24:24.:24:26.

in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states.

:24:27.:24:29.

It should give British companies the maximum

:24:30.:24:34.

operate within European markets and let European businesses do

:24:35.:24:38.

She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal,

:24:39.:24:46.

We want to test what people think about what she's just said.

:24:47.:25:01.

Do we have any of our future negotiating

:25:02.:25:04.

As the European Parliament voted for its new

:25:05.:25:09.

president, its chief negotiator sounded off.

:25:10.:25:16.

Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept

:25:17.:25:18.

it, we're going to make from Britain a sort

:25:19.:25:21.

of free zone or tax haven, I

:25:22.:25:24.

The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's

:25:25.:25:30.

rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger.

:25:31.:25:33.

We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but

:25:34.:25:37.

that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership.

:25:38.:25:47.

Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic

:25:48.:25:50.

leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail?

:25:51.:25:55.

The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page.

:25:56.:25:58.

For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven.

:25:59.:26:02.

I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming

:26:03.:26:05.

an independent country again, with control of our own laws,

:26:06.:26:08.

I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because

:26:09.:26:14.

There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and

:26:15.:26:18.

Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners?

:26:19.:26:22.

There will, at the end of this deal process,

:26:23.:26:25.

so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but

:26:26.:26:28.

We take the view as Liberal Democrats that

:26:29.:26:31.

if this process started with democracy last June,

:26:32.:26:33.

We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them

:26:34.:26:37.

Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all

:26:38.:26:44.

watching it in a small room somewhere?

:26:45.:26:46.

Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that

:26:47.:26:53.

somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal

:26:54.:26:56.

with the European Union didn't work, we would move

:26:57.:26:58.

into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the

:26:59.:27:00.

I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what

:27:01.:27:04.

The Labour leader suggested he'd tell

:27:05.:27:11.

his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if

:27:12.:27:14.

Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among

:27:15.:27:17.

Finally, do we have anyone from big business here?

:27:18.:27:22.

Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic

:27:23.:27:31.

Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been

:27:32.:27:41.

anticipating since the referendum result,

:27:42.:27:43.

particularly around the

:27:44.:27:44.

I think what we've also seen today is the Government's

:27:45.:27:49.

willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I

:27:50.:27:52.

Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you

:27:53.:27:56.

have to be pretty tough to get what you want.

:27:57.:27:58.

Although some business people on the slopes speculated

:27:59.:28:01.

about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain.

:28:02.:28:03.

We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn,

:28:04.:28:21.

but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit

:28:22.:28:24.

Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.

:28:25.:28:28.

People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are

:28:29.:28:36.

four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the

:28:37.:28:41.

referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that

:28:42.:28:46.

nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't

:28:47.:28:49.

have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people,

:28:50.:28:54.

millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better.

:28:55.:28:57.

However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to

:28:58.:29:04.

parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the

:29:05.:29:09.

triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is

:29:10.:29:13.

what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our

:29:14.:29:20.

policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We

:29:21.:29:25.

don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what

:29:26.:29:30.

legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what

:29:31.:29:33.

amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block

:29:34.:29:40.

it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we

:29:41.:29:48.

will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are

:29:49.:29:52.

too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU

:29:53.:29:56.

migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer

:29:57.:30:00.

to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would

:30:01.:30:05.

you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how

:30:06.:30:09.

we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the

:30:10.:30:13.

Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those

:30:14.:30:16.

amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain

:30:17.:30:21.

whether they voted to leave remain want answered.

:30:22.:30:26.

When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I

:30:27.:30:34.

can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation.

:30:35.:30:39.

But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard

:30:40.:30:45.

this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on

:30:46.:30:51.

Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead

:30:52.:30:56.

of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially,

:30:57.:31:00.

when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the

:31:01.:31:04.

whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip

:31:05.:31:11.

on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote

:31:12.:31:17.

that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against

:31:18.:31:22.

it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a

:31:23.:31:27.

three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember

:31:28.:31:33.

when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these

:31:34.:31:36.

Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just

:31:37.:31:43.

another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds

:31:44.:31:55.

voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country

:31:56.:32:00.

and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous

:32:01.:32:06.

a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a

:32:07.:32:15.

three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you

:32:16.:32:20.

believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think

:32:21.:32:25.

that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority.

:32:26.:32:31.

What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her

:32:32.:32:37.

priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should

:32:38.:32:43.

remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the

:32:44.:32:48.

economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is

:32:49.:32:53.

Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market?

:32:54.:32:57.

Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they

:32:58.:33:01.

come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to

:33:02.:33:09.

remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that,

:33:10.:33:16.

ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the

:33:17.:33:20.

jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief.

:33:21.:33:26.

Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there.

:33:27.:33:32.

Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has

:33:33.:33:41.

made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's

:33:42.:33:48.

position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that

:33:49.:33:53.

you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union,

:33:54.:33:57.

including being a member of the single market, without

:33:58.:34:00.

responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement,

:34:01.:34:05.

is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is

:34:06.:34:13.

that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a

:34:14.:34:18.

member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it.

:34:19.:34:22.

Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting

:34:23.:34:28.

negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it

:34:29.:34:34.

Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well,

:34:35.:34:43.

if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has

:34:44.:34:52.

unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is!

:34:53.:35:02.

It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it

:35:03.:35:07.

Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's

:35:08.:35:13.

position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how

:35:14.:35:17.

the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs

:35:18.:35:22.

union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove

:35:23.:35:28.

catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do

:35:29.:35:33.

accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own

:35:34.:35:41.

free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The

:35:42.:35:47.

ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to

:35:48.:35:52.

protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about

:35:53.:35:56.

free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will

:35:57.:36:01.

get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the

:36:02.:36:08.

NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If

:36:09.:36:13.

she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the

:36:14.:36:17.

customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for

:36:18.:36:23.

Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February.

:36:24.:36:29.

I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating

:36:30.:36:38.

that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would

:36:39.:36:42.

that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats,

:36:43.:36:46.

so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you.

:36:47.:36:49.

You're watching the Sunday Politics.

:36:50.:36:50.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now

:36:51.:36:53.

Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead,

:36:54.:36:56.

when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James

:36:57.:36:58.

about the government's new industrial strategy and that

:36:59.:37:01.

crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit.

:37:02.:37:04.

Good morning, coming up on Politics where you are.

:37:05.:37:24.

Sunday Politics. Trouble in Sunday Politics. Trouble in

:37:25.:37:28.

Paradise. The ongoing battle for affordable homes. And how local

:37:29.:37:36.

should the library be? And for the next 20 minutes I am joined by Candy

:37:37.:37:41.

Atherton, a former Labour MP, and Alison Hernandez, Devon and Cornwall

:37:42.:37:46.

Police's Conservative crime and Police Commissioner. First, as the

:37:47.:37:50.

region's schools getting a fair deal under the governments new funding

:37:51.:37:54.

formula? Dead in's MPs do not think so. At a parliamentary debate this

:37:55.:38:03.

week, some Tories threatened to vote against own government. If this

:38:04.:38:06.

education funding settlement does not change in relation to Devon's

:38:07.:38:09.

schools, if there is no significant uplift when this comes, whatever

:38:10.:38:14.

form it comes in, six months, nine months, I will vote against it.

:38:15.:38:19.

Because the settlement that is being proposed for Devon's schools is

:38:20.:38:25.

simply illogical and unfair. This relates to what MPs say is an unfair

:38:26.:38:28.

funding formula, it sees pupils in funding formula, it sees pupils in

:38:29.:38:33.

Devon get almost ?300 less than year spent in the education than the

:38:34.:38:37.

national average. Under the new formula there will not be much

:38:38.:38:39.

improvement, and some schools, around 38%, will be worse off.

:38:40.:38:46.

Alison, people in the South West voted in an army of Conservative MPs

:38:47.:38:49.

at the last election and hope that things like this would get

:38:50.:38:54.

re-dressed. Now they are not. What is going to change things, when will

:38:55.:38:59.

the government listen? A number of MPs supported the fear funding

:39:00.:39:03.

campaign that was going on to help improve the formula and how it was

:39:04.:39:07.

looked at. I do not know how they came about the formula for the

:39:08.:39:11.

education part, but we are about to go through a police funding formula

:39:12.:39:16.

review, and we're going a transparent process, heavily

:39:17.:39:22.

involved in influencing it. That is -- for us, what is happening in

:39:23.:39:25.

Devon is rural schools seem to have lost out, which is bad news for us

:39:26.:39:29.

in policing, because morality is something we are pushing. Your Tory

:39:30.:39:35.

Government is not doing much to help redress the balance, not rewarding

:39:36.:39:39.

the voters that voted in the Tory MPs. It is not my Tory Government, I

:39:40.:39:47.

am not part of the government. But you're part of their party. The MPs

:39:48.:39:52.

legislate, and it is good to see them standing up for their

:39:53.:39:58.

constituencies. Ivybridge College is affected, and they need to be

:39:59.:40:00.

influencing how it works going forward. Candy, what do you say

:40:01.:40:07.

about this? There are some places like Kensington and Chelsea where

:40:08.:40:12.

people get ?6,000 a year, and in Exeter it is 3500 a year, that is a

:40:13.:40:17.

huge gap in the amount of money spent on a child's education. It is

:40:18.:40:24.

a huge gap, and Cornwall did relatively well in this new formula,

:40:25.:40:27.

if it comes to. Looks like the Conservative MPs are retreating

:40:28.:40:29.

rather than marching forward. The fact that government ministers have

:40:30.:40:39.

not responded on the Devon rural schools, and I have to say that Gary

:40:40.:40:42.

saying he's going to vote against, 40% of his constituency is in

:40:43.:40:44.

Plymouth, and they did better. I do not think the Tory MPs in this new

:40:45.:40:51.

formula have done the business. It seemed like a David and Goliath

:40:52.:40:55.

victory in the battle for affordable housing. Last year people in St

:40:56.:40:58.

Ives, which has a high number of second homes, voted to restrict all

:40:59.:41:04.

new-build properties to local residents only. Last week Jeremy

:41:05.:41:06.

Corbyn told me he's watching with interest to see how it plays out,

:41:07.:41:11.

and he is not alone. Communities up and down the country are poised to

:41:12.:41:15.

follow suit. But the early signs are not good, with developers now

:41:16.:41:18.

looking to build elsewhere. I have been to get the lie of the land. St

:41:19.:41:26.

is not difficult to see why houses is not difficult to see why houses

:41:27.:41:29.

here are pricey, and why the plight of local people has caught to

:41:30.:41:32.

national attention. New stations around the world have featured the

:41:33.:41:40.

story. -- news stations. Russian TV ask whether similar rules in London

:41:41.:41:46.

would stop wealthy residents buying. There is a real housing crisis in St

:41:47.:41:52.

Ives, and for young people leaving school the vast majority will never

:41:53.:41:54.

in St Ives, and even getting rented in St Ives, and even getting rented

:41:55.:41:59.

accommodation for them is a very real problem. Tony's family have

:42:00.:42:04.

lived here for generations. His father and grandfather were

:42:05.:42:07.

times have changed. We have a one times have changed. We have a one

:42:08.:42:15.

product economy in St Ives, tourism. That is a load -- low-wage, low

:42:16.:42:19.

skill economy, so the only hope is a neighbourhood planning setting

:42:20.:42:24.

precedents in the control and some kind of attempt to change the

:42:25.:42:28.

market. But it is not clear the plan they voted for will have the desired

:42:29.:42:32.

impact. Estate agents say that there are already signs of it having the

:42:33.:42:38.

opposite effect. We have had discussions with developers who have

:42:39.:42:43.

come back to us and said because of restrictions being placed on what

:42:44.:42:45.

they can build, they are looking elsewhere in the county, or

:42:46.:42:52.

generally elsewhere, such as Penzance. 83% of residents voted to

:42:53.:42:56.

introduce a clause which restricts the sale of all new-build properties

:42:57.:43:02.

to permanent residents only, so no new second homes. But that has a

:43:03.:43:07.

knock-on effect, say the developers. Developers say it is the sale of the

:43:08.:43:10.

open market housing which dictates how much affordable housing can be

:43:11.:43:17.

built on a site. The H2 clause devalues the site, reducing the

:43:18.:43:21.

amount of affordable housing that can be built. The councils do not

:43:22.:43:24.

build social housing any more, it is going to developers to do this. From

:43:25.:43:29.

what I can gather from speaking to developers, I think it will have the

:43:30.:43:33.

opposite effect. As they will not be building, they will not be building

:43:34.:43:35.

affordable homes. It is a affordable homes. It is a

:43:36.:43:41.

mathematical equation, if there is less at the top, there will be less

:43:42.:43:45.

filtered out to affordable housing. You have some sites, will you be

:43:46.:43:49.

going ahead with your schemes? We probably will not advance them at

:43:50.:43:53.

the moment, and there are several reasons. There is the risk, the end

:43:54.:43:59.

valueless, we do not know what those end values will be. Secondly we do

:44:00.:44:03.

not know whether we would get these schemes funded, and even if we were

:44:04.:44:10.

getting these housing, we do not know of people would get the

:44:11.:44:13.

competitive rates of mortgage lending because those types of

:44:14.:44:17.

houses carry more risk. Nobody wants to be a first mover, so at the

:44:18.:44:22.

moment we probably would not do it. What do those behind the ball to

:44:23.:44:27.

make developers saying that? I do not believe that statement for one

:44:28.:44:32.

moment. I think this is a couple of developers who has seen that the

:44:33.:44:36.

greedy pot is disappearing, and I am fairly confident that we are still

:44:37.:44:40.

going to have development going on in the town, but it is going to be

:44:41.:44:44.

at our pace and under the neighbourhood planning. This belief

:44:45.:44:48.

that people power will prevail is really testing the water. Whether it

:44:49.:44:54.

can provide the answer to affordable living remains to be seen. It is

:44:55.:44:58.

there, in a way. You are a there, in a way. You are a

:44:59.:45:03.

councillor, you have been a county councillor, isn't there room for

:45:04.:45:06.

negotiation? The developer did not see he wasn't going to go ahead, he

:45:07.:45:10.

said there was too much risk in being the first. What can the

:45:11.:45:14.

Council do to mitigate it? I think it is going to the government.

:45:15.:45:18.

Neighbourhood plans are in their early days but there are -- they are

:45:19.:45:21.

an opportunity for local people to set the parameters of planning. At

:45:22.:45:26.

the moment the developer is pretty much have a free hand, and until

:45:27.:45:32.

Cornwall had a local plan, we had no tools to stop a local development.

:45:33.:45:36.

The town I represent, we had inappropriate development,... There

:45:37.:45:44.

were lots of students, but beautiful green fields looking over the sea

:45:45.:45:47.

turned into estates. People said they didn't want that. The town

:45:48.:45:51.

council and community worked together for three years, we

:45:52.:45:56.

consulted and debated, we researched and put together our plan, and it is

:45:57.:46:00.

now at the consultation stage. Is this the right move? The Tory

:46:01.:46:04.

Government brought in a move that enabled local people to have their

:46:05.:46:09.

say, which is good. We did not bring in a planning law that was a tiny

:46:10.:46:13.

slim volume that gave no protection to communities. But I will say this,

:46:14.:46:21.

Brexit means Brexit, then referendum should mean referendum. So far, it

:46:22.:46:26.

is in St Ives. Talking to people in the town, the definition of

:46:27.:46:29.

affordable housing kept coming up. They kept saying affordable is not

:46:30.:46:35.

actually affordable. Howzat 180s eyes and pains when you earn the

:46:36.:46:41.

four times that is 60,000. It is not four times that is 60,000. It is not

:46:42.:46:46.

just St Ives, tourism... -- a House that

:46:47.:47:09.

cost 180,000 in St Ives. You can shape out the future for you really

:47:10.:47:15.

could be. But should the councils build more social housing? Local

:47:16.:47:19.

councils have the opportunity to look at opportunities and beer...

:47:20.:47:27.

Even I am looking at how to build housing on land that is redundant on

:47:28.:47:34.

a police state. That the government will not allow councils to build

:47:35.:47:37.

housing, which is madness, because it is investment for the community,

:47:38.:47:43.

Council and local people to have a home. What do you mean it will not

:47:44.:47:47.

allow? The rules will not allow councils to borrow money to build

:47:48.:47:51.

housing. You can build a swimming pool but not houses. I do not know

:47:52.:47:54.

the financial rules in a local authority, I would be looking at an

:47:55.:47:59.

arms length association to do it on my behalf if I could not do it as

:48:00.:48:05.

myself. I will look at ways that can happen. All towns and communities

:48:06.:48:09.

want diversity, they want housing for older people, younger people,

:48:10.:48:13.

family homes. You do not want one to dominate. Everything like this, with

:48:14.:48:20.

big decisions, it is an opportunity for change and to negotiate, and to

:48:21.:48:24.

do something different. Where there is well, there is a way. For me, if

:48:25.:48:30.

licensing was an opportunity, that might be an option. There might be

:48:31.:48:34.

other things once they go through discussions, but the is needed. OK,

:48:35.:48:40.

the writer Virginia Woolf said of public libraries, I ransack them and

:48:41.:48:44.

find them full of treasure. In Plymouth, soon there may be a little

:48:45.:48:48.

less treasure. Tomorrow consultation begins on whether to close ten of

:48:49.:48:55.

the city's 17 libraries. The council says it is not about saving money

:48:56.:49:00.

but adapting to technology. Critics say it is short-sighted. We have

:49:01.:49:02.

been reading between the lines. MUSIC

:49:03.:49:15.

Poking fun at the demise of a library due to the rise of new

:49:16.:49:21.

technology. But there is no singing and dancing here. This library is

:49:22.:49:24.

one of ten which might close under new plans unveiled this week by

:49:25.:49:28.

Plymouth City Council. It is just down the road from high view primary

:49:29.:49:31.

School, where some of the pupils have decided to take action. Keen

:49:32.:49:36.

supporters of their local library, they have started a petition to save

:49:37.:49:42.

it. I am hoping it is going to work because I know that lots of people

:49:43.:49:44.

really like the library because it is not so far from the school. Do

:49:45.:49:49.

not close it down. Everyone really likes it. When they see that we

:49:50.:49:54.

really want this library, then they will say, let us not close it down,

:49:55.:49:59.

let us keep it for the people who like this library. When you're

:50:00.:50:08.

learning to read at school, it can seem oppression and work things.

:50:09.:50:11.

Children today are more pressure than ever, but going to the library

:50:12.:50:17.

was never a pressure. It was always a joy and discovery. Award-winning

:50:18.:50:21.

author and illustrator Simon James author and illustrator Simon James

:50:22.:50:24.

paints an idyllic picture of going to the library. He believes they are

:50:25.:50:29.

valuable places which should not be lost. If we lose them, we will be

:50:30.:50:34.

closing down horizons for children, possibilities for older people to

:50:35.:50:40.

have something they can go to. The council argues smaller library

:50:41.:50:42.

buildings like this cannot offer the range of services at once to

:50:43.:50:47.

provide. Our customers tell us they want help with IT skills, they want

:50:48.:50:52.

opportunities to seek jobs, to have access to council services and

:50:53.:50:56.

access information about health. You simply cannot do that if you have

:50:57.:51:01.

not got enough space to provide it. Opposition Labour councillors say it

:51:02.:51:03.

is more important the libraries remain local. This one opened by

:51:04.:51:09.

Princess Anne in 2015 is now earmarked for closure. They are

:51:10.:51:16.

hubs, places people can meet and interact. They are the heart of

:51:17.:51:19.

every community in Plymouth. When you take away the library you rip

:51:20.:51:23.

out the heart of the local community. In Cornwall, the running

:51:24.:51:27.

of libraries has been transferred to ten councils. Devon County Council's

:51:28.:51:32.

50 libraries are run by a social enterprise company. Plymouth City

:51:33.:51:36.

Council says it is unsustainable to keep 17 libraries going. It wants

:51:37.:51:40.

fewer but better equipped to buildings like this one. With the

:51:41.:51:44.

public consultation beginning on Monday, library lovers are invited

:51:45.:51:50.

to have their voices heard. Allison, do you use the library, is it

:51:51.:51:53.

something you use? It is not something I use, my parents never

:51:54.:51:56.

took me to the library when I was young so I have not been brought up

:51:57.:52:00.

in the environment of it, and it was only in university I learned how to

:52:01.:52:05.

use one. It is interesting that things are transforming in local

:52:06.:52:08.

government, and this is an opportunity for the public to get

:52:09.:52:11.

involved and influence it. In some places libraries are run by

:52:12.:52:15.

volunteers. Where people feel passionately about the services they

:52:16.:52:19.

can work together with their local authority to make it happen. I'm

:52:20.:52:22.

sure the counsellor would be happy for people to approach him about

:52:23.:52:26.

that. But then paid jobs would go? Is it right that volunteers should

:52:27.:52:33.

run a good thing? But it costs money to have volunteers, you have got to

:52:34.:52:37.

support them. But services are changing, and because of what has

:52:38.:52:42.

happened, police stations have closed. Before my tenure, a police

:52:43.:52:45.

badge number of police stations were closed. People felt like they had

:52:46.:52:52.

been abandoned by the police. With libraries it will have the same

:52:53.:52:56.

feeling about it. It is one of those things that there is a reassurance

:52:57.:53:00.

factor you have a library. It is the perception in the mind of a lot of

:53:01.:53:03.

the community about what is withdrawing from local authorities.

:53:04.:53:09.

People are losing so much, that is why they get so angry. The Post

:53:10.:53:15.

Office. And the butcher and Baker. Is this a final straw for people? 17

:53:16.:53:22.

from a population of 250,000 in Plymouth is quite a lot of

:53:23.:53:26.

libraries. Would it make much difference if you scale goes back?

:53:27.:53:32.

That's difference? 70% of the local communities in the areas being

:53:33.:53:35.

closed do not have access to computers and the Internet. If you

:53:36.:53:41.

are pensioner ran the disabled you have two access the Internet to

:53:42.:53:49.

claim benefits. Cornwall Council, I will give them credit, they spoke to

:53:50.:53:53.

local communities and said it was unsustainable, they did not have the

:53:54.:53:56.

money, and work community is prepared to do it? In Falmouth, a

:53:57.:54:01.

young man set up a position. 7000 signed, and we have taken it over.

:54:02.:54:07.

Should it be voluntary or funded? There should be a mixture. You need

:54:08.:54:13.

professionalism ,, but you also need experience. National feedback showed

:54:14.:54:18.

the ones run by volunteers did not work. What about adding cafes to

:54:19.:54:24.

libraries? If you look at the businesslike Costa coffee,... But

:54:25.:54:36.

why not introduce libraries into cafes? It is about making it more

:54:37.:54:41.

accessible in the community, access to computers, books, and more by

:54:42.:54:44.

libraries are quite popular but why can't you have it? Why would you not

:54:45.:54:54.

want any library in your cafe? It would bring more people in. OK, full

:54:55.:55:01.

of ideas. It is time for the regular round-up of the political week in 60

:55:02.:55:03.

seconds. It is not all about the money, says

:55:04.:55:16.

Sarah Wollaston in a health debate on BBC spotlight this week. It is

:55:17.:55:21.

not just about funding, it is about the workforce and greater efforts on

:55:22.:55:27.

prevention. Lib MEP Robert Davidson is the party's new Brexit spokesman

:55:28.:55:32.

for Devon and Cornwall. Calls for the government to do more to tackle

:55:33.:55:37.

air pollution in Camelford. National government has its part to play and

:55:38.:55:41.

so does local government in finding solutions for congestion issues.

:55:42.:55:47.

Could Truro be the new European Capital of Culture? Councillors will

:55:48.:55:53.

decide whether to bid at next week. And crime is being recorded in Devon

:55:54.:55:57.

and Cornwall are up 6%. The force says the area is still one of the

:55:58.:56:00.

safest in the country, but others blame cuts. We all want to have and

:56:01.:56:05.

expect to have a policeman on the beat. We have not a penny more. You

:56:06.:56:12.

do not get a police car very often. -- we do not have that any more. Can

:56:13.:56:20.

we blame the cuts? We lost over 500 officers since 2010. Is this as

:56:21.:56:26.

seeing the repercussions? Devon and Cornwall Police still one of the

:56:27.:56:29.

safest places in the country to live, and burglary is the second

:56:30.:56:36.

lowest in the country. The increases, we have had a lot more

:56:37.:56:40.

people reporting on bullying and all sorts of things, which is recorded

:56:41.:56:44.

as violence without injury, so people know they can report them, so

:56:45.:56:48.

that has improved on the figures. Cyber crime, more silent but still

:56:49.:56:53.

costs money to investigate. Are you finding there is an impact? Yes, the

:56:54.:57:00.

part for me as I am keen to see more officers on the street. But you're

:57:01.:57:04.

taking another Beattie out in your plan. I am not, I'm about to invest

:57:05.:57:12.

in officers. I will be asking for a preset to see what I can use. I'm

:57:13.:57:16.

looking at reserves and aiming to invest in police officers. Nine

:57:17.:57:24.

months into your term, no plan in place, crime is up, police officers

:57:25.:57:29.

died in. Is the right person in the job? I am sorry to have to say that,

:57:30.:57:38.

but it is true that we are seeing rising crime and reduced police

:57:39.:57:43.

officers, and people cannot report crimes, people say they just give

:57:44.:57:51.

up. What has been interesting is, in terms of saying whether I'm right

:57:52.:57:54.

person for the job, the point is I am elected to do the job so I'm here

:57:55.:57:58.

to do it, and I will endeavour to do a good job while I am here. One of

:57:59.:58:02.

the things I'm looking to do is invest in police officers. My budget

:58:03.:58:05.

proposals go to the panel early February, co-produced with the

:58:06.:58:11.

police constable, which is realistic. The preset you mentioned,

:58:12.:58:18.

can you put a figure on that? The limit anyone can put it up is 2%, so

:58:19.:58:24.

if I was to put it up to the full amount, it is worth ?2 million to

:58:25.:58:29.

policing, around 40 officers. And council taxpayers pay for that? Yes,

:58:30.:58:41.

about ?4 a year. Two tinkering around with 2% or under, that all of

:58:42.:58:47.

the devious bodies are involved in, it is not working. Everything we

:58:48.:58:51.

spoke about today has been about, are we able to have libraries,

:58:52.:58:55.

police, the health service? Clearly we are going to have to start

:58:56.:58:59.

looking very seriously. I really do feel that a reported crime in

:59:00.:59:06.

Cornwall every day last year. That is serious. You have been in the job

:59:07.:59:11.

almost a year. Have you found the ongoing investigation into your

:59:12.:59:18.

expenses has hampered you? Not at all. One of the bits that has been a

:59:19.:59:23.

real positive out of it, I'm still under investigation, I had my

:59:24.:59:27.

interview 22nd December with the police who were doing a managed

:59:28.:59:31.

interview and a half of the IPCC, but interestingly, the positive

:59:32.:59:36.

about it is the publicity I have received because of it. I can walk

:59:37.:59:40.

down UK high street and I will get stopped by people who want my help.

:59:41.:59:48.

It must be really tough to be sitting with an investigation going

:59:49.:59:51.

on. I would urge you to consider standing aside to enable somebody

:59:52.:59:59.

else to take control. That is ridiculous. There is integrity in an

:00:00.:00:04.

election. I have to stop you both. Thanks to both of my

:00:05.:00:07.

have to do this. Thank you to you both.

:00:08.:00:10.

What exactly is the government's industrial strategy?

:00:11.:00:20.

Will ministers lose their supreme court battle over Brexit, and,

:00:21.:00:24.

Well, tomorrow Theresa May is launching the government's

:00:25.:00:36.

industrial strategy - and to talk about that we're joined

:00:37.:00:40.

by the Business Minister, Margot James - welcome to the show.

:00:41.:00:47.

When you look at what has already been released in advance of the

:00:48.:00:55.

Prime Minister's statement, it was embargoed for last night, it's not

:00:56.:01:00.

really an industrial strategy, it's just another skills strategy, of

:01:01.:01:04.

which we have had about six since the war, and our skills training is

:01:05.:01:11.

among the worst in Western Europe? There will be plenty more to be

:01:12.:01:16.

announced tomorrow in what is really a discussion document in the

:01:17.:01:19.

preparation of an industrial strategy which we intend to launch

:01:20.:01:24.

properly later in the year. Let's look at skills. You are allocating

:01:25.:01:32.

117 of funding to establish institutes of technology. How many?

:01:33.:01:38.

The exact number is to be agreed, but the spend is there, and it will

:01:39.:01:44.

be on top of what we are doing to the university, technical

:01:45.:01:47.

colleges... How many were lit bio create? We don't know exactly, but

:01:48.:01:54.

we want to put them in areas where young people are performing under

:01:55.:01:58.

the national average. But if you don't know how many, what is the

:01:59.:02:05.

basis of 170 million? That is the amount the Treasury have released.

:02:06.:02:08.

The something that is very important, we are agreed we need to

:02:09.:02:13.

devote more resources to vocational training and get it on a par with

:02:14.:02:19.

academic qualifications. I looked on the website of my old university,

:02:20.:02:25.

the University of Glasgow, the Russell group universities. Its

:02:26.:02:30.

spending budget every year is over 600 million. That's one University.

:02:31.:02:38.

And yet you have a mere 170 million foreign unspecified number of

:02:39.:02:43.

institutes of technology. It hasn't got equality with the academics? You

:02:44.:02:48.

have to remember that just as you have quoted figures from Glasgow

:02:49.:02:52.

University there are further education colleges all over the

:02:53.:02:57.

country. The government is already spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But

:02:58.:03:05.

also, we are going to be adding... This is new money that is all to the

:03:06.:03:10.

good, because we are already spending a lot. We have already

:03:11.:03:16.

created 2 million more apprentices since 2010. That many are not in

:03:17.:03:20.

what we would call the stem skills, and a lot come nowhere near what the

:03:21.:03:25.

Dutch, Germans and Austrians would have. I'm not clear how another 170

:03:26.:03:31.

million would do. You said it is more than skills. In what way is

:03:32.:03:35.

this industrial strategy different from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne

:03:36.:03:47.

did before? It's different because it is involving every single

:03:48.:03:49.

government department, and bringing together everything that government

:03:50.:03:51.

does in a bid to make Britain more competitive as it disengages from

:03:52.:03:54.

the European Union. That is what the last Labour government did. They

:03:55.:04:00.

will much more targeted interventions. Under the Labour

:04:01.:04:04.

government, the auto industry got some benefit. A few more sectors

:04:05.:04:09.

were broached under the coalition government. This is all about

:04:10.:04:14.

communities all over the country, some of whom have fallen behind in

:04:15.:04:18.

terms of wage growth and good jobs. The Prime Minister has already

:04:19.:04:24.

announced 2 billion as a research and development priority in specific

:04:25.:04:31.

technologies, robotics, artificial intelligence, medical technology,

:04:32.:04:35.

satellites... So you are doing what has been done before. There is

:04:36.:04:41.

nothing new about this. Wait until tomorrow, because there will be some

:04:42.:04:46.

new strands emerging. It is the beginning of the dialogue with

:04:47.:04:49.

industry and with workers, and the responses will be invited up until

:04:50.:04:55.

April. That will inform a wider strategy that goes beyond skills. I

:04:56.:05:01.

have moved on to beyond them. I'm slightly puzzled as to how the

:05:02.:05:06.

government knows where to invest in robotics, when it can't even provide

:05:07.:05:11.

the NHS with a decent IT system. Discuss. I have to say I find it

:05:12.:05:16.

bizarre that the government is making an announcement about an

:05:17.:05:19.

amount of money and don't know where it's going. This is typical of all

:05:20.:05:24.

governments over all political shoes, which is total disregard for

:05:25.:05:30.

technical education, so different from Germany, who actually invest in

:05:31.:05:38.

the technological side. Germany has a long history. We want to emulate

:05:39.:05:45.

some of the best of what German companies do. Siemens sponsor

:05:46.:05:50.

primary schools, for example. We want to get a dialogue on with

:05:51.:05:55.

business. We don't want to decide where this money is going. By the

:05:56.:06:00.

way, it was 4.7 billion that the government has agreed to invest in

:06:01.:06:06.

science and research, which is the most significant increase in

:06:07.:06:09.

decades. Can you remind us what happened in Northern Ireland, when

:06:10.:06:14.

the government invested money in state-of-the-art technology for

:06:15.:06:17.

energy? No one needs to be reminded of that, and that is not what we are

:06:18.:06:25.

doing. We are inviting business and industry to advise where that money

:06:26.:06:30.

is best spent. That's very different from government deciding that a

:06:31.:06:35.

particular technology is for the future. The government's chief

:06:36.:06:40.

scientific adviser has determined that we will invest a huge amount in

:06:41.:06:46.

battery technology, which should benefit the electric car industry,

:06:47.:06:51.

and... This is taxpayers' money. Who gets it? Ultimately, business will

:06:52.:06:58.

get it, but often only when there is a considerable amount of private

:06:59.:07:03.

sector finance also drawn in. But who is held to account? Various

:07:04.:07:11.

government departments at local authorities will hold this list to

:07:12.:07:15.

account. A lot of it is about releasing private capital as well.

:07:16.:07:22.

Thank you very much. This week, the Supreme Court, I think we know the

:07:23.:07:29.

ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the expectation is that the judges will

:07:30.:07:33.

say Parliament will have to vote to trigger. Is this all much ado about

:07:34.:07:39.

nothing? Parliament will vote to trigger, and the government will win

:07:40.:07:42.

in the Lords and the Commons by substantial majorities, and it will

:07:43.:07:46.

be triggered? Completely. We've known that. Parliament is voted.

:07:47.:07:52.

Everyone is pretty confident that the Supreme Court will uphold the

:07:53.:07:55.

High Court's decision and say it has to go to MPs. There will be a bit of

:07:56.:08:04.

toing and froing among MPs on amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's

:08:05.:08:10.

slightly car crash interview there. The Lib Dems may throw something in,

:08:11.:08:14.

but we will trigger Article 50 by the end of March. If it also says

:08:15.:08:21.

that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast should be picked up,

:08:22.:08:26.

that could complicate matters. Absolutely. That could delay the

:08:27.:08:30.

planned triggering of Article 50 before the end of March. Not what

:08:31.:08:34.

they say about the Westminster Parliament, because it is clear that

:08:35.:08:39.

it was. I never understood the furore about that original judgment,

:08:40.:08:44.

because every MP made it clear they wouldn't block it. Even though Diane

:08:45.:08:49.

Abbott was evasive on several fronts, she said they wouldn't block

:08:50.:08:54.

it. You are right, if they give a vote, or give some authorisation for

:08:55.:08:58.

the Scottish Parliament and other devolved assemblies, that might

:08:59.:09:03.

delay the whole sequence. That is the only significant thing to watch

:09:04.:09:09.

out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs May goes to Washington. It will be

:09:10.:09:14.

another movie in the making! I would suggest that she has a tricky line

:09:15.:09:19.

to follow. She has got to be seen to be taking advantage of the fact that

:09:20.:09:24.

there is a very pro-British, pro-Brexit president in the Oval

:09:25.:09:29.

Office, who I am told is prepared to expend political capital on this.

:09:30.:09:34.

But on the other hand, to make sure that she is not what we used to call

:09:35.:09:46.

Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It is very difficult, and who would not

:09:47.:09:50.

want to be a fly on the wall in that meeting! I can't think of anyone in

:09:51.:09:53.

the world who would despise Mr Trump more than Mrs May, and for him, he

:09:54.:09:58.

dislikes any woman who does not look like a supermodel, no disrespected

:09:59.:10:09.

Mrs May. Most of it is actually anti-EU, and I think we should

:10:10.:10:13.

capitalise it. Let's get the Queen to earn her money, roll out the red

:10:14.:10:18.

carpet, invite him to dinner, spend the night, what ever we need...

:10:19.:10:25.

Trump at Balmoral! Here is the issue, because the agenda is, as we

:10:26.:10:30.

heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that this is not an administration that

:10:31.:10:35.

has much time for the EU, EU integration or Germany. I think

:10:36.:10:38.

Germany will be the second biggest loser to begin with. They will not

:10:39.:10:44.

even give a date for Angela Merkel to meet the president. This is an

:10:45.:10:52.

opportunity for Mrs May... It is a huge. It could sideline talks of the

:10:53.:11:00.

punishment beating from Germany. The Trump presidency has completely

:11:01.:11:07.

changed the field on Brexit. Along came Donald Trump, and Theresa May

:11:08.:11:11.

has this incredible opportunity here. Not of her making, but she has

:11:12.:11:16.

played her cards well. To an officially be the EU emissary to

:11:17.:11:22.

Washington, to get some sort of broker going. That gives us huge

:11:23.:11:27.

extra leveraged in the Brexit negotiations. People around the

:11:28.:11:31.

world think Germany as a currency manipulator, that it is benefiting

:11:32.:11:35.

from an underpriced euro, hence the huge surplus it runs of America, and

:11:36.:11:39.

they think it is disgraceful that a country that runs a massive budget

:11:40.:11:45.

surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP on defence, and America runs a

:11:46.:11:50.

massive deficit and needs to spend a lot more. He's going for Germany.

:11:51.:11:57.

And what a massive shift. I think Obama was quite open, in a farewell

:11:58.:12:01.

interview, that he felt closer to Merkel than any other European

:12:02.:12:06.

leader. And Jamie kind of reflected that in our discussion. Yes, that's

:12:07.:12:13.

very interesting discussion. I think she was the last person he spoke to

:12:14.:12:18.

in the White House, Obama. And now you are getting the onslaught from

:12:19.:12:24.

Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery is dangerous, though. Blair was

:12:25.:12:29.

hypnotised by it and was too scared to criticise Bush, because he wanted

:12:30.:12:33.

to be seen in that light, and we know where that led. Cameron

:12:34.:12:39.

similarly with Obama, which presented him with problems, as

:12:40.:12:42.

Obama didn't regard him as his number one pin up in Europe. I would

:12:43.:12:49.

put a note of caution in there about the Thatcher - Reagan parallel.

:12:50.:12:54.

Everything Trump is doing now is different from before, so Mrs May

:12:55.:12:59.

should not have any of these previous relationships in her mind.

:13:00.:13:05.

That is not entirely true. Donald Trump aches to be the new Ronald

:13:06.:13:13.

Reagan. He may be impeached first! He sees her as the new Margaret

:13:14.:13:16.

Thatcher, and that may her leveraged with him. Thank you.

:13:17.:13:24.

We'll be back here at the same time next week, and you can catch up

:13:25.:13:29.

on all the latest political news on the Daily Politics,

:13:30.:13:31.

In the meantime, remember - if it's Sunday,

:13:32.:13:35.

It's just pain, but it doesn't feel like pain,

:13:36.:14:14.

it feels much more violent, dark and exciting.

:14:15.:14:37.

Join Michael Buerk as he explores the dishes fit for kings and queens.

:14:38.:14:42.

When it comes to extravagance, few monarchs can compete with George IV.

:14:43.:14:46.

If that was for breakfast, I dread to think what he had for dinner.

:14:47.:14:50.

Andrew Neil, Lucie Fisher and guests including shadow home secretary Diane Abbott provide reaction to Theresa May's Brexit speech and look at the inauguration of US president Donald Trump. On the political panel are Julia Hartley-Brewer of talkRadio, Tom Newton Dunn of the Sun and broadcaster and journalist Steve Richards.