Browse content similar to 26/02/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
Theresa May still has plenty on her plate, | :00:46. | :00:45. | |
not least a battle over Brexit in the Lords. | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
But after Thursday's by-election win in Copeland, | :00:49. | :00:49. | |
the Prime Minister looks stronger than ever. | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's Labour saw off Ukip in this week's other by-election, | :00:52. | :00:53. | |
but losing to the Tories in a heartland seat leaves the party | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
The leader of Scottish Labour joins me live. | :00:57. | :01:06. | |
You look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden! | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
And Donald Trump may have been mocked for talking about the impact | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
of migration on Sweden, but after riots in Stockholm this | :01:15. | :01:16. | |
In the South West: The mentally ill teenagers demanding politicians | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
And children's services facing spending cuts | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
In London, will the rise in council tax in all but four local | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
authorities be enough to alleviate the crisis in social care? | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
And joining me for all of that, three journalists who I'm pleased | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
to say have so far not been banned from the White House. | :01:40. | :01:47. | |
I've tried banning them from this show repeatedly, | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
but somehow they just keep getting past BBC security - it's Sam Coates, | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
We have had two crucial by-elections, the results last | :01:55. | :02:05. | |
Thursday night. It's now Sunday morning, where do they believe | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
British politics? I think it leaves British politics looking as if it | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
may go ahead without Ukip is a strong and robust force. It is | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
difficult to see from where we are now how Ukip rebuilds into a | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
credible vote winning operation. I think it looks unprofessional, the | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
campaign they fought in Stoke was clearly winnable because the margin | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
with which Labour held onto that seat was not an impressive one but | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
they put forward arguably the wrong candidate, it was messy and it's | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
hard to see where they go from here, particularly with the money problems | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
they have and even Nigel Farage saying he's fed up of the party. If | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
Isabel is right, if Ukip is no longer a major factor, you look at | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
the state of Labour and the Lib Dems coming from a long way behind | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
despite their local government by-election successes, Tories never | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
more dominant. I think Theresa May is in a fascinating situation. She's | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
the most powerful Prime Minister of modern times for now because she | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
faces no confident, formidable opposition. Unlike Margaret Thatcher | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
who in the 1980s, although she won landslides in the end, often looked | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
like she was in trouble. She was inferred quite often in the build-up | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
to the election. David Owen, Roy Jenkins, Shirley Williams. And quite | :03:32. | :03:38. | |
often she was worried. At the moment Theresa May faces no formidable UK | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
opposition. However, she is both strong and fragile because her | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
agenda is Brexit, which I still think many have not got to grips | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
with in terms of how complex and training and difficult it will be | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
for her. Thatcher faced no equivalent to Brexit so she is both | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
strong, formidably strong because of the wider UK political context, and | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
very fragile. It is just when you think you have never been more | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
dominant you are actually at the most dangerous, what can possibly go | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
wrong? I think that the money of her MPs they haven't begun to think | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
through the practicalities of Brexit and she does have a working majority | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
of about 17 in the House of Commons so at any point she could be put | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
under pressure from really opposition these days is done by the | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
two wins inside the Conservative Party, either the 15 Europhiles or | :04:32. | :04:38. | |
the bigger group of about 60 Brexiteers who have continued to | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
operate as a united and disciplined force within the Conservative Party | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
to get their agenda on the table. Either of those wings could be | :04:47. | :04:49. | |
disappointed at any point in the next three and a half years and that | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
would put her under pressure. I wouldn't completely rule out Ukip | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
coming back. The reason Ukip lost in Stoke I think it's because at the | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
moment Theresa May is delivering pretty much everything Ukip figures | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
might want to see. We might find the phrase Brexit means Brexit quite | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
anodyne but I think she is convincing people she will press | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
ahead with their agenda and deliver the leave vote that people buy a | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
slim majority voted for. Should that change, should there be talk of | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
transition periods, shut the migration settlement not make people | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
happy, then I think Ukip risks charging back up the centre ground | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
and causing more problems in future. That could be a two year gap in | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
which Ukip would have to survive. As I said, Ukip is on our agenda for | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
today. Thursday was a big night | :05:43. | :05:44. | |
for political obsessives like us, with not one but two | :05:45. | :05:46. | |
significant by-elections, Ellie braved the wind and rain | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
to bring you this report. The clouds had gathered, | :05:51. | :05:58. | |
the winds blew at gale force. Was a change in the air, or just | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
a weather system called Doris? Voters in Stoke-on-Trent | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
were about to find out. It's here, a sports hall | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
on a Thursday night that the country's media reckon | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
is the true eye of the storm. Would Labour suffer a lightning | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
strike to its very heart, or would the Ukip threat proved | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
to be a damp squib? Everybody seems to think the result | :06:24. | :06:25. | |
in Stoke-on-Trent would be close, just as they did 150-odd miles away | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
in Copeland, where the Tories are counting on stealing another | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
Labour heartland seat. Areas of high pressure in both | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
places, and some strange sights. We knew this wasn't a normal | :06:37. | :06:44. | |
by-election, and to prove it there is the rapper, | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
Professor Green. Chart-toppers aside, | :06:48. | :06:49. | |
winner of Stoke-on-Trent hit parade was announced first, | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
where everyone was so excited the candidates didn't even make it | :06:53. | :06:54. | |
onto the stage for the result. And I do hereby declare | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
that the said Gareth Snell Nigel Farage has said that victory | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
here in Stoke-on-Trent But Ukip's newish leader | :07:03. | :07:10. | |
played down the defeat, insisting his party's | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
time would come. Are you going to stand again | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
as an MP or has this No doubt I will stand again, | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
don't worry about that. The politics of hope beat | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
the politics of fear. I think Ukip are the ones this | :07:29. | :07:37. | |
weekend who have got But a few minutes later, | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
it turned out Labour had Harrison, Trudy Lynn, | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
the Conservative Party That was more than 2,000 | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
votes ahead of Labour. What has happened here tonight | :07:50. | :08:01. | |
is a truly historic event. Labour were disappointed, | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
but determined to be optimistic At a point when we're 15 to 18 | :08:06. | :08:07. | |
points behind in the polls... The Conservatives within 2000 votes | :08:08. | :08:19. | |
I think is an incredible The morning after the night | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
before, the losing parties were licking their wounds | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
and their lips over breakfast. For years and years, | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
Ukip was Nigel Farage, That has now changed, | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
that era has gone. It's a new era, it is | :08:36. | :08:41. | |
a second age for us. So that needs to be | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
more fully embedded, it needs to be more defined, | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
you know, and that will We have to continue to improve | :08:50. | :08:51. | |
in seats where we have stood. As we have done here, | :08:52. | :09:00. | |
we've improved on our 2015 result, that's what important, | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
is that we are taking steps Can I be the first to come | :09:04. | :09:05. | |
here today to congratulate you on being elected the new MP | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
for Stoke on Trent Central. Jeremy Corbyn has just arrived | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
in Stoke to welcome his newest MP. Not sure he's going to | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
Copeland later though. Earlier in the day, the Labour | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
leader had made clear he'd considered and discounted some | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
theories about the party's Since you found out that you'd lost | :09:26. | :09:27. | |
a seat to a governing party for the first time | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
since the Falklands War, have you at any point this morning | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
looked in the mirror and asked yourself this question - | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
could the problem actually be me? In the end it was the Conservatives | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
who came out on top. No governing party has made | :09:45. | :09:52. | |
a gain at a by-election With the self-styled people's army | :09:53. | :09:54. | |
of Ukip halted in Stoke, and Labour's wash-out | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
here in Copeland... There's little chance of rain | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
on Theresa May's parade. In the wake of that loss in | :10:06. | :10:16. | |
Copeland, the Scottish Labour Party has been meeting for its spring | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
conference in the Yesterday, deputy leader Tom Watson | :10:20. | :10:21. | |
warned delegates that unless Labour took the by-election defeat | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
seriously, the party's devastation in Scotland could be repeated | :10:27. | :10:28. | |
south of the border. Well, I'm joined now | :10:29. | :10:31. | |
by the leader of Scottish Labour, Even after your party had lost | :10:32. | :10:47. | |
Copeland to the Tories and with Labour now trailing 16 points in the | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
UK polls, you claim to have every faith that Jeremy Corbyn would | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
absolutely win the general election. What evidence can you bring to | :10:57. | :11:03. | |
support that? There is no doubt the result in Copeland was disappointing | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
for the Labour Party and I think it's a collective feeling for | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
everyone within the Labour Party and I want to do what I can to turn | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
around the fortunes of our party. That's what I've committed to do | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
while I have been the Scottish Labour leader. This two years ago we | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
were down the mines so to speak in terms of losing the faith of working | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
class communities across the country, but we listened very hard | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
to the message voters are sending and responded to it. That's what I'm | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
committed to doing in Scotland and that's what Jeremy Corbyn is | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
committed to doing UK wide. The latest polls put Labour at 14% in | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
Scotland, the Tories at ten points ahead of you in Scotland, even | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
Theresa May is more popular than Jeremy Corbyn in Scotland. So I will | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
try again - why are you so sure Jeremy Corbyn could win a general | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
election? What I said when you are talking about Scotland is that I'm | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
the leader of the Scottish Labour Party and I take responsibility for | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
our policies here. Voters said very clearly after the Scottish | :12:11. | :12:13. | |
Parliament election that they didn't have a clear enough sense of what we | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
stood for so I have been advocating a very strong anti-austerity | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
platform, coming up with ideas of how we can oppose the cuts and | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
invest in our future. That is something Jeremy Corbyn also | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
supports but I've also made it clear this weekend that we are opposed to | :12:29. | :12:35. | |
a second independence referendum. I want to bring Scotland back together | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
by focusing on the future and that's why I have been speaking about the | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
federal solution for the UK. I know that Jeremy Corbyn shares that | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
ambition because he is backing the plans for a people's Constitutional | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
Convention. Yes, these are difficult times for the Scottish Labour Party | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
and UK family, but I have a plan in place to turn things around. It will | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
take time though. I'm still not sure why you are so sure the Labour party | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
can win but let me come onto your plan. You want a UK wide | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
Constitutional Convention and that lead to a new Federalist settlement. | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
Is it the policy of the Labour Shadow Cabinet in Westminster to | :13:20. | :13:26. | |
carve England into federal regions? What we support at a UK wide level | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
is the people's constitutional convention. I have been careful to | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
prescribe what I think is in the best interests of Scotland but not | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
to dictate to other parts of the UK what is good for them, that's the | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
point of the people's constitutional convention. You heard Tom Watson say | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
there has to be a UK wide conversation about power, who has it | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
and how it is exercised across England. England hasn't been part of | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
this devolution story over the last 20 years, it is something that | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
happened between Scotland and London or Wales and London. No wonder | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
people in England feel disenfranchised from that. What | :14:05. | :14:07. | |
evidence can you bring to show there is any appetite in England for an | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
English federal solution to England, to carve England into federal | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
regions? Have you spoken to John Prescott about this? He might tell | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
you some of the difficulties. There's not even a debate about that | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
here, Kezia Dugdale, it is fantasy. I speak to John Prescott regularly. | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
What there is a debate about is the idea the world is changing so fast | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
that globalisation is taking jobs away from communities in the | :14:36. | :14:38. | |
north-east, that many working class communities feel left behind, that | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
Westminster feels very far away and the politicians within it feel | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
remote in part of the establishment. People are fed up with power being | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
exercised somewhere else, that's where I think federalism comes in | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
because it's about bringing power closer to people and in many ways | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
it's forced on us because of Brexit. We know the United Kingdom is | :14:59. | :15:06. | |
leaving the European Union so we have to talk about the repatriation | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
of those powers from Brussels to Britain. I want many of those powers | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
to go to the Scottish parliament but where should they go in the English | :15:13. | :15:14. | |
context? It is not as things currently stand the policy of the | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
English Labour Party to carve England into federal regions, | :15:19. | :15:19. | |
correct? It is absolutely the policy of the | :15:20. | :15:29. | |
UK Labour Party to support the people's Constitutional convention | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
to examining these questions. I think it is really important. You're | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
promising the Scottish people a federal solution, and you have not | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
even squared your own party for a federal solution in England. That is | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
not true. The UK Labour Party is united on this. I am going to | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
Cardiff next month to meet with Carwyn Jones and various leaders. | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
United on a federal solution? You know as well as I know it is not | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
united on a federal solution. We will have a conversation about power | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
in this country. It is not united on that | :16:05. | :16:27. | |
issue? This is the direction of travel. It is what you heard | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
yesterday from Sadiq Khan, from Tom Watson, when you hear from people | :16:32. | :16:33. | |
like Nick Forbes who lead Newcastle City Council and Labour's Local | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
Government Association. There is an appetite for talking about power. | :16:37. | :16:38. | |
Talking is one thing. We need to have this conversation across the | :16:39. | :16:40. | |
whole of the United Kingdom, to have a reformed United Kingdom. It is a | :16:41. | :16:42. | |
conversation you're offering Scotland, not the policy. Let's come | :16:43. | :16:45. | |
onto the labour made of London. He was in power for your conference. He | :16:46. | :16:47. | |
wrote in the record yesterday, there is no difference between Scottish | :16:48. | :16:50. | |
nationalism and racism. Would you like this opportunity to distance | :16:51. | :16:53. | |
yourself from that absurd claim? I think that Sadiq Khan was very clear | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
yesterday that he was not accusing the SNP of racism. What he was | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
saying clearly is that nationalism by its very nature divides people | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
and communities. That is what I said in my speech yesterday. I am fed up | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
living in a divided and fractured country and society. Our politics is | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
forcing is constantly to pick sides, whether you're a no, leave a remain, | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
it brings out the worst in our politicians and politics. All the | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
consensus we find in the grey areas is lost. That is why am standing | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
under a banner that together we are stronger. We have to come up with | :17:31. | :17:44. | |
ideas and focus on the future. That is why I agree with Sadiq Khan. He | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
said quite clearly in the Daily Record yesterday, and that the last | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
minute he adapted his speech to your conference yesterday, to try and | :17:52. | :17:53. | |
reduce the impact, that there was no difference between Scottish | :17:54. | :17:55. | |
nationalism and racism. Your colleague, and Sarwar, said that | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
even after he had tried to introduce the caveats, all forms of | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
nationalism rely on creating eyes and them. Let's call it for what it | :18:04. | :18:11. | |
is. So you are implying that the Scottish Nationalists are racist. | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
Would you care to distance yourself from that absurd claim? I utterly | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
refute that that is what Sadiq Khan said. I would never suggest that the | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
SNP are an inherently racist party. That does is a disservice. He did | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
not see it. What he did say, however, is that nationalism is | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
divisive. You know that better than anyone. I see your Twitter account. | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
Regularly your attack for the job you do as a journalist. Politics in | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
Scotland is divided on. I do not want to revisit that independence | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
question again for that reason. As leader of the Labour Party, I want | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
to bring our country back together, appeal to people who voted yes and | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
no. That banner, together we are stronger, that is where the answers | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
lie in defaulters can be found. If in response to the Mayor of London, | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
your colleague says, let's call it out for what it is, what is he | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
referring to if he is not implying that national symbol is racist? -- | :19:13. | :19:20. | |
and that nationalism is racist? He is saying that it leads to divisive | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
politics. The Labour Party has always advocated that together we | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
are stronger. Saying something is divisive is very different from | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
saying something is racist. That is what the Mayor of London said. That | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
is what your colleague was referring to. He did not. You would really | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
struggle to quote that from the Mayor of London. He talked about | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
being divided by race. What does that mean? I think he was very clear | :19:48. | :19:53. | |
that he was talking about divided politics. There is an appetite the | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
length and breadth of the country to end that divisive politics. That is | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
what I stand for, focusing on the future, bringing people back | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
together, concentrating on what the economy might look like in 20 years' | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
time in coming up with ideas to tackle it today. Thank you for | :20:10. | :20:11. | |
joining us. Thursday's win for Labour | :20:12. | :20:12. | |
in Stoke-on-Trent Central gave some relief to Jeremy Corbyn, | :20:13. | :20:14. | |
but for Ukip leader and defeated Stoke candidate Paul Nuttall | :20:15. | :20:17. | |
there were no consolation prizes. I'm joined now by Mr Nuttall's | :20:18. | :20:19. | |
principal political Welcome to the programme. Good | :20:20. | :20:29. | |
morning. How long will Paul Nuttall survivors Ukip leader, days, weeks, | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
months? You are in danger of not seeing the wood for the trees. Ukip | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
was formed in 1993 with the express purpose, much mocked, of getting | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
Britain out of the European Union. Under the brilliant leadership of | :20:45. | :20:47. | |
Nigel Farage, we were crucial in forcing a vacuous Prime Minister to | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
make a referendum promise he did not want to give. With our friends in | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
Fort leave and other organisations. Mac we know that. Get to the answer. | :20:58. | :21:04. | |
We helped to win that referendum. The iteration of Ukip at the moment | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
that we're in, the primary purpose, we are the guard dog of Brexit. | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
Viewed through that prism, the Stoke by-election was a brilliant success. | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
A brilliant success? We had the Tory candidate that had pumped out | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
publicity for Remain, for Cameron Bradley, preaching the gospel of | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
Brexit. We had a Labour candidate and we know what he really felt | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
about Brexit, preaching the Gospel according to Brexit. You lost. Well | :21:33. | :21:34. | |
the by-election was going on, we had the Labour Party in the House of | :21:35. | :21:51. | |
Commons pass the idea of trickling Article 50 by a landslide. Are | :21:52. | :21:53. | |
passionate thing, the thing that 35,000 Ukip members care about the | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
most, it is an extraordinary achievement. I am very proud. What | :21:57. | :21:58. | |
would you have described as victory as? If we could have got Paul | :21:59. | :22:00. | |
Nuttall into the House of Commons, that would have been a fantastic | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
cherry on the top. Losing was an extraordinary achievement? Many Ukip | :22:05. | :22:10. | |
supporters the Stoke was winnable, but Paul Nuttall's campaign was | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
marred by controversy, Tory voters refuse to vote tactically for Ukip | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
to beat Labour, his campaign, Mr Nuttall is to blame for not winning | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
what was a winnable seat? I do not see that at all. This is | :22:29. | :22:31. | |
counterintuitive, but Jeremy Corbyn did do one thing that made it more | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
difficult for us to win. Fantasy. That was to take Labour into a | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
Brexit position formerly. Just over 50 Labour MPs had voted against | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
triggering Article 50. In political terms, we have intimidated the | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
Labour Party into backing Brexit. How much good is it doing you? It | :22:52. | :22:53. | |
comes to the heart of the problem your party faces. | :22:54. | :23:10. | |
You're struggling to win Tory Eurosceptic voters. For the moment, | :23:11. | :23:12. | |
they seem happy with Theresa May. Stoke shows you're not winning | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
Labour Brexit voters either. If you cannot get the solution Tolisso | :23:16. | :23:17. | |
labour, where does your Broad come from? In terms of the by-election, | :23:18. | :23:19. | |
it came very early for Paul. I'm talking about the future. We have a | :23:20. | :23:22. | |
future agenda, and ideological argument with Jeremy Corbyn's Labour | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
Party, which is wedded to the notion of global citizenship and does not | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
recognise the nation state. We know he spent Christmas sitting around | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
campfires with Mexican Marxist dreaming of global government. We | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
believe in the nation state. We believe that the patriotic working | :23:40. | :23:42. | |
class vote will be receptive to that. Your Broad went down by 9% in | :23:43. | :23:49. | |
Cortland. In Copeland we were squeezed. In Stoke, we were unable | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
to squeeze the Tories, who are on a high. Our agenda is that social | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
solidarity is important but we arrange it in this country by nation | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
and community. We want an immigration system that is not only | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
reducing... We know what you want. I do not think people do. You had a | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
whole by-election to tell people and they did not vote for you and. When | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
Nigel Farage said it was fundamental that you were winner in Stoke, he | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
was wrong? Nigel chooses his own words. I would not rewrite them. It | :24:24. | :24:30. | |
would be a massive advantage to Ukip to have a leader in the House of | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
Commons in time to reply to the budget, Prime Minister's questions | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
and all of that. But we have taken the strategic view that we will | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
fight the Labour Party for the working class vote. It is also true | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
that the Conservatives will make a pitch for the working class vote | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
might as well. All three parties have certain advantages and | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
disadvantages. As part of that page, Nigel Farage said that your leader, | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
Paul Nuttall, should have taken a clear, by which I assume he meant | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
tough, line on immigration. Do you agree? He took a tough line on | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
immigration. He developed that idea at our party conference in the | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
spring. Nigel Farage did not think so? Nigel Farage made his speech | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
before Paul Nuttall made his speech. He said this in the aftermath of the | :25:16. | :25:22. | |
result. Once we have freedom to control and Borders, Paul wants to | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
set up an immigration system that includes an aptitude test, do you | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
have skills that the British economy needs, but also, and attitudes test, | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
do you subscribe to core British values such as gender equality and | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
freedom of expression? We will be making these arguments. It is | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
certainly true that Paul's campaign was thrown off course by, | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
particularly something that we knew the Labour Party had been preparing | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
to run, the smear on the untruths, the implications about Hillsborough. | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
If you knew you should have anticipated it. Alan Banks, he helps | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
to bankroll your party, he said that Mr Nuttall needs to toss out the | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
Tory cabal in Europe, by which he means Douglas Carswell, Neil | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
Hamilton. Should they be stripped of their membership? Of course not. As | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
far as I knew, Alan Banks was a member of the Conservative Party | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
formally. I do not know who this Tory cabal is supposed to be. He | :26:24. | :26:27. | |
says that your party is more like a jumble sale than a political party. | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
He says that the party should make him chairman or they will work. What | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
do you see to that? He has made that statement several times over many | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
months, including if you do not throw out your only MP. Douglas | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
Carswell has managed to win twice under Ukip colours. Should Tibi | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
chairman? I think we have an excellent young chairman at the | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
moment. He is doing a good job. The idea that Leave.EU was as smooth | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
running brilliant machine, that does not sit with the facts as I | :27:02. | :27:04. | |
understand them. Suzanne Evans says it would be no great loss for Ukip | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
if Mr Banks walked out, severed his ties and took his money elsewhere. | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
Is she right. I am always happy people who want to give money and | :27:15. | :27:17. | |
support your party want to stay in the party. The best donors donate | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
and do not seek to dictate. If they are experts in certain fields, | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
people should listen to their views but to have a daughter telling the | :27:28. | :27:30. | |
party leader who should be party chairman, that is a nonstarter. You | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
have described your existing party chairman is excellent. He said it | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
could be 20 years before Ukip wins by-election. Is he being too | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
optimistic? There is a general election coming up in the years' | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
time. We will be aiming to win seats in that. Before that, we will be the | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
guard dog for Brexit, to make sure this extraordinary achievement of a | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
little party... You are guard dog without a kennel, you cannot get | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
seat? We're keeping the big establishment parties to do the will | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
of the people. If we achieve nothing else at all, that will be a | :28:09. | :28:11. | |
magnificent achievement. Thank you very much. | :28:12. | :28:13. | |
Sweden isn't somewhere we talk about often | :28:14. | :28:14. | |
should because this week it was pulled into | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
the global spotlight, thanks | :28:19. | :28:19. | |
Last weekend, Mr Trump was mocked for referring to an incident that | :28:20. | :28:28. | |
had occurred last night in Sweden as a result of the country's open | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
Critics were quick to point out that no such incident had occurred | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
and Mr Trump later clarified on Twitter and he was talking | :28:36. | :28:38. | |
about a report he had watched on Fox News. | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
But as if to prove he was onto something, | :28:42. | :28:43. | |
next day a riot broke out in a Stockholm suburb | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
with a large migrant population, following unrest in such areas | :28:47. | :28:48. | |
So what has been Sweden's experience of migration? | :28:49. | :28:58. | |
In 2015, a record 162,000 people claimed asylum there, the second | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
That number dropped to 29,000 in 2016 after the country introduced | :29:02. | :29:07. | |
border restrictions and stopped offering permanent | :29:08. | :29:09. | |
Tensions have risen, along with claims of links to crime, | :29:10. | :29:17. | |
although official statistics do not provide evidence of a refugee driven | :29:18. | :29:20. | |
Nigel Farage defended Mr Trump, claiming this week that migrants | :29:21. | :29:28. | |
have led to a dramatic rise in sexual offences. | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
Although the country does have the highest reported | :29:32. | :29:33. | |
rate of rape in Europe, Swedish authorities say recent rises | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
were due to changes to how rape and sex crimes are recorded. | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
Aside from the issue of crime, Sweden has struggled | :29:42. | :29:43. | |
Levels of inequality between natives and migrants when it comes | :29:44. | :29:49. | |
Unemployment rates are three times higher for foreign-born workers | :29:50. | :29:52. | |
We're joined now by Laila Naraghi, she's a Swedish MP from the | :29:53. | :30:05. | |
governing Social Democratic Party, and by the author and | :30:06. | :30:07. | |
The Swedish political establishment was outraged by Mr Trump's remarks, | :30:08. | :30:23. | |
pointing to a riot that hadn't taken place, then a few nights later | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
serious riots did break out in a largely migrant suburb of Stockholm | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
so he wasn't far out, was he? I think he was far out because he is | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
misleading the public with how he uses these statistics. I think it is | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
important to remember that the violence has decreased in Sweden for | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
the past 20 years and research shows there is no evidence that indicate | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
that immigration leads to crime and so I think it is far out. The social | :30:50. | :30:57. | |
unrest in these different areas is not because of their ethical | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
backgrounds of these people living there but more about social economic | :31:02. | :31:08. | |
reasons. OK, no evidence migrants are responsible for any kind of | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
crime? This story reminds me after what happened to the Charlie Hebdo | :31:13. | :31:19. | |
attacks in Paris when also a Fox News commentator said something that | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
was outlandish about Paris and the Mayor of Paris threatened to sue Fox | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
News, saying you are making our city look bad. It's a bit like that | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
because the truth on this lies between Donald Trump on the Swedish | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
authorities on this. Sweden and Swedish government is very reluctant | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
to admit any downsides of its own migration policy and particularly | :31:44. | :31:46. | |
the migration it hard in 2015 but there are very obvious downsides | :31:47. | :31:52. | |
because Sweden is not a country that needs a non-skilled labour force | :31:53. | :31:58. | |
which doesn't speak Swedish. What was raised as the matter of | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
evidence, what is the evidence? First of all if I can say so the | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
rape statistics in Sweden that have been cited are familiar with the | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
rape statistics across other countries that have seen similar | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
forms of migration. Danish authorities and the Norwegian | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
authorities have recorded a similar thing. It is not done by ethnicity | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
so we don't know. And this is part of the problem. It is again a lot of | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
lies and rumours going about. When it is about for example rape, it is | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
difficult to compare the statistics because in Sweden for example many | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
crimes that in other countries are labelled as bodily harm or assault | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
are in Sweden labelled as rape. Also how it is counted because if a woman | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
goes to the police and reports that her husband or boyfriend has raped | :32:52. | :32:59. | |
her, and done it every night for one year, in Sweden that is counted as | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
365 offences. Something is going wrong, I look at the recent news | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
from Sweden. Six Afghan child refugees committed suicide in the | :33:10. | :33:12. | |
last six months, unemployment among recent migrants now five times | :33:13. | :33:19. | |
higher than among non-migrants. We have seen gang violence in Malmo | :33:20. | :33:25. | |
where a British child was killed by a grenade, rioting in Stockholm. | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
Police in Sweden say there are 53 areas of the country where it is now | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
dangerous to patrol. Something has gone wrong. Let me get back to what | :33:33. | :33:39. | |
I think is the core of this debate if I may and that is the right for | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
people fleeing war and political persecution to seek asylum, that is | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
a human right. In Sweden we don't think we can do everything, but we | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
want to live up to our obligation, every country has an obligation to | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
receive asylum seekers. But you have changed your policy on that because | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
having taken 163,001 year alone, you have then closed your borders, I | :34:04. | :34:06. | |
think very wisely, closed the border which means 10,000 people per day at | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
one point were walking from Denmark in to Malmo, you rightly changed | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
that so he realised whatever ones aspirations in terms of asylum, it | :34:18. | :34:20. | |
sometimes meets reality and Sweden is meeting the reality of this. | :34:21. | :34:27. | |
Let's respond to that. We are not naive, we know we cannot do | :34:28. | :34:30. | |
everything but we want to try to do our share as we think other | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
countries also need to do their share. But let me say that, if you | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
look at what the World Economic Forum is saying about our country | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
they show we are in the top of many rankings, the best country to live | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
in, to age in, to have children in, to start into -- to start | :34:47. | :34:55. | |
enterprise. Why have you not been so good at integrating migrants? The | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
unemployment rate is five times higher among migrants than | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
non-migrants and that's the highest ratio of any country in the EU and | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
the OECD, why have you not been able to integrate the people you have | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
brought in for humanitarian reasons? I'm sure there are things we can do | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
much better of course but if you look for example at the immigration | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
that came in the 90s from the Balkans, they are well integrated | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
and contributing to our society. They are starting enterprises and | :35:30. | :35:31. | |
working in different fields of society, and they help our country. | :35:32. | :35:39. | |
Why have they not got jobs, the migrants that have come in? It takes | :35:40. | :35:46. | |
time. In the 90s we managed it and I'm sure we can do it again. Can I | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
put this into some context, it is clear Sweden has got problems as a | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
result of the number of migrants that come in, whether it is as bad | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
as Mr Trump and others make out is another matter, but perhaps I can | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
put it into context. Malmo, which has been at the centre of many of | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
these migrant problems, its homicide rate is three per hundred thousand. | :36:09. | :36:15. | |
Chicago, 28 per 100,000. It may have problems but they are not huge. No, | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
they are pretty huge and I think they will grow. The Balkan refugees | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
into Sweden in the 90s did bring a lot of problems and Sweden did for | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
the first time see serious ethnic gang rivalries. There was an upsurge | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
in gang-related violence that has gone on since. The situation in | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
Malmo in particular is exaggerated by some people, there's no doubt | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
about that, I have been there many times and it is undoubtedly | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
exaggerated by some, it is also vastly unpersuaded by the Swedish | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
authorities. -- understated. In 2010, one in ten Jews in Malmo | :36:53. | :37:02. | |
registered some form of attack on them. It got so bad that in 2010 | :37:03. | :37:12. | |
people offered to escort Jews... You have had a good say and I have got | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
to be fair here, what do you say to that, Laila Naraghi? There are | :37:17. | :37:23. | |
people trying to frame our country in a certain way to push their own | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
agenda. I regret that President Trump is trying to slander our | :37:28. | :37:33. | |
country. But what about the specific point on Malmo? If you speak to | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
people in Malmo and also to different congregations, they say | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
they are working together with the authorities to improve this. I say | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
again, there are a lot of people trying to spread rumours and lies. | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
Your situation is very like the situation we had in Britain when we | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
have these situations in Rotherham and elsewhere. 1400 girls were raped | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
in Rotherham before police even admitted it was going on. That | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
happened in Britain in the last decade, a similar phenomenon. An | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
upsurge in particularly sexual and other forms of violence and then | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
total denial by an entire political class is now something that is | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
happening in Sweden. I see it in Swedish authorities and the denial | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
that comes up and the desire to laugh and dismiss Trump but he's not | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
answer nothing and that's a painful thing for any society to want to | :38:26. | :38:32. | |
admit to. There are number of Swedes who think the establishment is | :38:33. | :38:39. | |
covering up the true statistics, that you don't break crime down by | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
ethnic crimes, people are suspicious of the centre-left and centre-right | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
parties now in Sweden. There is no denial and no cover-up. This is what | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
I'm speaking about when I say people are trying to frame it in a certain | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
way. The social unrest is not because of the ethnical background | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
of the people living there but rather because of different | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
socioeconomics conditions. There is no research that shows | :39:05. | :39:10. | |
immigration... But you don't do the research into it. Swedish | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
authorities deliberately ensure you cannot carry out such research and | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
after the attacks in Cologne in 2015 it was the first time then that the | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
Swedish authorities and press admitted that similar sexual | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
molestation have been going on for years in Sweden. Is it right to | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
think, given the problem is maybe not as bad as many people make out | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
but clearly problems, given these problems, is the age of mass asylum | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
seeking for Sweden over? You have cut the numbers by 80% coming in | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
last year compared with 2015, is it over while you concentrate on | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
getting right the people that you have there already? We want to do | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
our share, we have done a lot and now we are concentrating of course | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
on integration and making sure people get a job, and also | :39:59. | :40:12. | |
on big welfare investments because it's important to remember that for | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
eight years Sweden were governed by a government that prioritised big | :40:16. | :40:17. | |
tax cuts instead of investment in welfare. It may just not work. I am | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
grateful to you both, we have to leave it there. | :40:22. | :40:22. | |
It's coming up to 11:40am, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :40:23. | :40:25. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :40:26. | :40:27. | |
the Week Ahead, when we'll be asking if the Government is facing defeat | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
Coming up on the Sunday Politics here in the South West: Council | :40:34. | :40:48. | |
leaders vent their anger as the government finally | :40:49. | :40:50. | |
announces their funding for the next financial year. | :40:51. | :40:58. | |
When they give us a provisional settlement late and then they give | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
us a final settlement after we have all set our budgets, | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
and we have got to set our budgets because of legal reasons, | :41:05. | :41:06. | |
And for the next 20 minutes I'm joined by Candy Atherton, Labour | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
councillor on Cornwall Council, Conservative MP Sarah Wollaston, | :41:11. | :41:13. | |
By-election drama this week saw Labour lose a seat they've held | :41:14. | :41:24. | |
since the 1930s and the Ukip leader fail to win a seat seen by many | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
But neither party leader seems to think the problem could be them. | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
There is a lot more which will happen, a lot more to come from us. | :41:34. | :41:36. | |
We are not going anywhere, I'm not going anywhere, | :41:37. | :41:38. | |
so therefore, you know, we move on and our time will come. | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
Have you at any point this morning looked in the mirror and ask | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
yourself this question, could the problem actually be me? | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
An old friend of yours that, of course, Jeremy Corbyn, Candy. | :41:50. | :42:07. | |
The Copeland by-election, this is the seat you have lost, | :42:08. | :42:10. | |
that is very, very ominous, isn't it, for Labour's | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
that is very, very ominous, isn't it, for Labour's future prospects? | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
I certainly think we will need to look very carefully and reflect | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
on what the voters in Copeland and in Stoke said and I would | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
mention that Stoke was widely predicted by the media | :42:26. | :42:27. | |
that we would not win that but we did, and comfortably, | :42:28. | :42:29. | |
It's not a traditional Labour seat in the sense | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
Why is the nuclear industry seat, and possibly slightly, | :42:34. | :42:49. | |
I've always been slightly surprised it was a long-term Labour seat. | :42:50. | :42:52. | |
But in terms of Jeremy Corbyn's personal antinuclear stance, | :42:53. | :42:54. | |
that's not going to play well in places like Plymouth, | :42:55. | :42:56. | |
seats that Labour has held many times and will need to win back | :42:57. | :42:59. | |
And that is why there is a big debate going on within the party. | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
But I would remind you that the media said they would not win | :43:05. | :43:07. | |
Stoke and actually we have seen off Ukip and I think that is to be | :43:08. | :43:10. | |
Do you think there should be a fresh question mark over | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
Jeremy has stood twice, he got a bigger mandate the second time. | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
I think what everyone needs to do, from the leader to the newest | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
new member is to reflect on how we can do better, how we can | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
respond to the electorate and prepare for some | :43:27. | :43:28. | |
Sarah, obviously celebration for the Conservatives. | :43:29. | :43:30. | |
Yes, a huge vote of confidence in Theresa May | :43:31. | :43:32. | |
Some have suggested, though, and looking at the by-elections | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
we have had recently, there could be a sense | :43:37. | :43:38. | |
that the Conservatives could be making advances in the Brexit | :43:39. | :43:40. | |
heartlands of the north but be vulnerable in their traditional | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
heartlands in the south, to Remain voters. | :43:45. | :43:47. | |
This was a seat that the Conservatives weren't | :43:48. | :44:03. | |
expecting to win and I think the circumstances, with Theresa May | :44:04. | :44:06. | |
putting in a very powerful performance and of course dismal | :44:07. | :44:08. | |
leadership from Jeremy Corbyn, I think those have come together | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
Molly, I say obviously we are in very feeble are times | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
Molly, I say obviously we are in very febrile times | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
and a lot of parties are looking for potential opportunities, | :44:20. | :44:21. | |
the Greens, we talked that Ukip going up and down but the Greens | :44:22. | :44:24. | |
don't seem to be grasping opportunities. | :44:25. | :44:26. | |
Well, we saw our results decline because we got caught in the usual | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
squeeze when a lot of focuses on the other parties but don't see | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
there is much enthusiasm for the Conservatives, | :44:34. | :44:35. | |
in spite of what Sarah says, and I don't think people have much | :44:36. | :44:38. | |
confidence in Labour to do any better. | :44:39. | :44:40. | |
Yes, because what people are doing is trying to make a decision | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
about who is the person who is likely to win | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
and who do they like least and I would like to see people | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
have a chance for voting for what they believe | :44:51. | :44:52. | |
in and we need a different kind of electoral system. | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
We need to be responding to the fact that we are in a multiparty | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
system that and we need to have an electoral system that | :44:59. | :45:01. | |
reflects that and stop this old game of government and opposition move | :45:02. | :45:04. | |
towards a multiparty system like most other countries have. | :45:05. | :45:06. | |
The two principal parties were the ones that one in the election. | :45:07. | :45:09. | |
The two principal parties were the ones that won in the election. | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
Because we live in a system that is a majority system so it | :45:13. | :45:15. | |
tends to help the two main parties but it is leading to | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
OK, we're going to question the exact system we had a referendum on. | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
We are moving into a different debate, an interesting | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
Higher council tax, service cuts and a budget-setting process | :45:26. | :45:28. | |
described by one of the South West's senior Tories as a shambles. | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
Apart from that, local government finances have had a great week. | :45:33. | :45:34. | |
At least councils will have more money to cope with the mounting | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
The extra care cash is for the adults and the elderly but, | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
as Anna Varle reports, that's left some concerned | :45:42. | :45:43. | |
about the impact of the latest spending round on children. | :45:44. | :45:45. | |
Learning to read and write, something that comes easy to many | :45:46. | :45:54. | |
but for one in ten of us it is a struggle. | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
Sophie is one of the lucky ones, she is getting one-to-one help | :45:58. | :46:06. | |
But help for children with special educational needs | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
Cornwall Council is looking to make savings, which means that schools | :46:13. | :46:21. | |
like this one would have to pay more for services to give children | :46:22. | :46:24. | |
The local authority is cutting children's services by 30% over five | :46:25. | :46:30. | |
years, which means schools will have to pay for some services which were | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
I'm very worried that in two years' time our schools won't be solvent, | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
in order to provide a basic education for every single child, | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
so I am doubly worried for the children who have special | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
educational needs and who need additional support but our budgets | :46:51. | :46:53. | |
The schools are there, they are being asked to do | :46:54. | :47:00. | |
more and more and more, and there is only so much | :47:01. | :47:02. | |
So if things don't change and cuts keep being made, you know, I say | :47:03. | :47:11. | |
Children are going to leave school having not achieved their full | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
potential and that, to me, it's terrible. | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
The council says educational psychologists will now have | :47:20. | :47:21. | |
to prioritise statuary work with schools but Barbara Hewitt Silk | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
from Cornwall Dyslexia says it is the most vulnerable | :47:27. | :47:28. | |
who will end up paying the cost of these cuts. | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
We have all sorts of people who contact our helpline | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
and who come for advice, who just have fallen | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
That can be stopped, or should I say it can be | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
ameliorated earlier on, if we put enough resources | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
Any cutback in educational psychology is short-sighted. | :47:50. | :47:55. | |
As well as the millions of pounds of savings local authorities | :47:56. | :47:58. | |
are having to make to balance the books, Council Tax is set | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
to rise across the region to pay for social care but there are calls | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
for some of this money to be spent on children's services. | :48:08. | :48:10. | |
If we are to call it a social care precept at least allow for some | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
of it to be spent in children's services because children need | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
social care, children need hospitals and everything else, | :48:19. | :48:22. | |
so I don't understand why the government doesn't allow us | :48:23. | :48:24. | |
to use that 2% where it goes to the most vulnerable and we can do | :48:25. | :48:27. | |
With no extra money from the government in the funding | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
settlement council leaders are seriously concerned. | :48:34. | :48:42. | |
When they give us a provisional settlement late and then they give | :48:43. | :48:45. | |
us a final settlement after we have all set our budgets and we have | :48:46. | :48:48. | |
got to set our budgets because of legal reasons, | :48:49. | :48:51. | |
Councils say they have had little control over this process | :48:52. | :48:54. | |
and they doubt whether the extra money they are raising | :48:55. | :48:57. | |
for care of the elderly will keep up with demand. | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
It's a long time until Sophie needs to worry about that | :49:03. | :49:05. | |
but could children like her be facing a lifetime of struggling | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
Sarah, a taste of the big political row behind | :49:09. | :49:19. | |
all of this from John Hart, in his typically forthright fashion. | :49:20. | :49:26. | |
What we have seen over the last few weeks is what we seem to see every | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
year, lots of rural Conservative MPs jumping up and down, | :49:31. | :49:32. | |
saying it is a disgrace that services in the countryside | :49:33. | :49:34. | |
are underfunded compared to the urban areas. | :49:35. | :49:36. | |
Get to the debate and someone stands up saying something vaguely | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
placatory and everyone voted through anyway. | :49:42. | :49:48. | |
Well, I didn't add my name to that vote because I feel very strongly | :49:49. | :49:51. | |
about the issue of social care and I have stayed on that | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
about the issue of social care and I have abstained on that | :49:57. | :49:59. | |
because I feel a stronger message needs to doubt that the disparity | :50:00. | :50:02. | |
between rural and urban areas absolutely needs to be addressed. | :50:03. | :50:04. | |
But also that I think that 3% in two years running is not significantly | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
different enough from 2% three years running so I think that | :50:09. | :50:10. | |
what we absolutely need now in the budget is to have a very | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
significant uplift for social care because we know that that | :50:14. | :50:16. | |
The Communities Secretary also talked about a review. | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
Clearly we know that local government finance will be | :50:20. | :50:21. | |
Suggesting as part of that process, rural needs will be factored | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
in to that but might not deliver any significant change. | :50:26. | :50:27. | |
It is not just about rural, it is about age structure | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
because we know that the key driver for demand is age | :50:33. | :50:35. | |
We know it is a good thing and certainly more | :50:36. | :50:44. | |
of us are living longer, but with that we need to look | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
at the demand that that places on services that you look | :50:48. | :50:50. | |
at these structure, the age structure of Devon, | :50:51. | :50:52. | |
of the country will be in 2030 and so what we must do | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
is actually tailor the funding to the actual level of need, | :50:57. | :50:59. | |
and, of course, the rural issue is that the higher cost | :51:00. | :51:01. | |
of delivering services in rural areas. | :51:02. | :51:03. | |
Candy, the annual rituals wouldn't have been completed unless we let | :51:04. | :51:05. | |
some Conservative MPs stand up in the Commons and say this | :51:06. | :51:08. | |
is all Labour's fault because they shifted a lot of money | :51:09. | :51:11. | |
unfairly from the countryside towards the cities. | :51:12. | :51:13. | |
But where are Devon and Cornwall now? | :51:14. | :51:15. | |
And what are the Devon and Cornwall Tories, | :51:16. | :51:19. | |
who makes a huge phalanx within the House of Commons, | :51:20. | :51:21. | |
They are standing up, and fairness to you, you abstained, | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
but most of them are standing up and saying it is also awful and then | :51:26. | :51:28. | |
they are going through as lobby fodder and then voting it through, | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
whether it is education or health, on all the various issues, | :51:35. | :51:36. | |
policing, you name it, that is what they are doing. | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
They are a huge force in the House of Commons. | :51:42. | :51:43. | |
If you worked as Devon and Cornwall and Somerset, Tories, | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
standing up and saying to the Prime Minister | :51:48. | :51:49. | |
and to the Chancellor, we are still at the lowest | :51:50. | :51:51. | |
of the low, get in there and sort it out. | :51:52. | :51:54. | |
I really resent that as a group, when I was a member of Parliament, | :51:55. | :52:00. | |
there were only four Labour MPs to stand up for Devon and Cornwall | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
and we did a far better job than what is happening here. | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
There was this huge shift to Labour seats of the funding structure | :52:09. | :52:15. | |
and that has been baked in to a system and what we now need | :52:16. | :52:18. | |
is a root and branch review that actually tailors this thing | :52:19. | :52:21. | |
to actual need and of course we need to also look | :52:22. | :52:24. | |
and factor in disadvantage, that is crucially important, | :52:25. | :52:33. | |
but the point is that actually delivering need and social care, | :52:34. | :52:36. | |
the key driver now is age and multi-morbidity | :52:37. | :52:38. | |
and that is where the review needs to happen. | :52:39. | :52:40. | |
Clearly we have the Conservatives looking at a complete overhaul | :52:41. | :52:42. | |
of government finance, self finance in this kind | :52:43. | :52:45. | |
of thing, what would the Greens prescription be? | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
Well, I think we need to look at the bigger picture | :52:51. | :52:53. | |
here because we are looking at a government that has decided | :52:54. | :52:55. | |
to reduce the funding to local government by 30% and we know | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
that the most expectant services that people really rely | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
on are provided by local government and we also know that | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
the Conservatives decided to reduce tax rates that we have less revenue | :53:08. | :53:10. | |
coming in and we would be perfectly prepared to increase taxes so that | :53:11. | :53:17. | |
could fund social care provision properly and I | :53:18. | :53:19. | |
that the Conservatives have decided to make the most vulnerable, | :53:20. | :53:22. | |
as you saw in the film there, pay for the problems | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
in the financial sector, which we are still suffering from. | :53:26. | :53:27. | |
The Conservatives are looking at councils retaining | :53:28. | :53:29. | |
all the business rates, largely, I think, | :53:30. | :53:30. | |
Is that some kind of model that the Greens might look at? | :53:31. | :53:36. | |
I am not averse to the idea of councils becoming | :53:37. | :53:38. | |
more entrepreneurial, I think that is quite a good idea, | :53:39. | :53:40. | |
but I think in order to make this work you have to let local councils | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
have more control over taxation and to raise more taxes locally | :53:45. | :53:46. | |
because at the moment they are constantly under the cosh | :53:47. | :53:49. | |
from central government and you have these rows between local Tories | :53:50. | :53:52. | |
and National Tories which is actually quite dishonest. | :53:53. | :53:53. | |
The Treasury is always very resistant to any more | :53:54. | :53:56. | |
There is not much point in having devolution if you don't have revenue | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
And there we are touching on another big debate! | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
The Prime Minister says mental health services have been | :54:04. | :54:05. | |
But her promise to stop young people being sent out of their local area | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
for treatment won't come into affect for another four years, | :54:12. | :54:13. | |
leaving some families in the South West in limbo. | :54:14. | :54:15. | |
One teenager from St Ives faces being treated outside England | :54:16. | :54:18. | |
after medical staff called 19 mental health units across the country but | :54:19. | :54:21. | |
It's a picture of youthful exuberance, but it doesn't | :54:22. | :54:29. | |
The 17-year-old is currently staying at an NHS unit in Somerset. | :54:30. | :54:36. | |
To visit her daughter, Mum, Marie, must make a 300 mile round trip | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
But that journey that could become greater still. | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
I've been told by CAHMS that they have tried | :54:46. | :54:48. | |
to contact everyone in England and there is nowhere | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
for her in England, and that they are looking | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
to take her out of the country basically to either | :54:56. | :54:58. | |
But even then they haven't said that there is a unit there or any | :54:59. | :55:04. | |
help that that is going to be any different to what is | :55:05. | :55:07. | |
In a speech last month the Prime Minister Theresa May | :55:08. | :55:15. | |
referred to the burning injustice of inadequate mental health care. | :55:16. | :55:18. | |
There is no escaping the fact that people with mental health problems | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
are still not treated the same as if they have a physical ailment. | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
By 2021 no child will be sent away from the local area to be | :55:25. | :55:27. | |
treated for a general mental health condition. | :55:28. | :55:35. | |
The South West has fewer specialist mental health beds for teenagers | :55:36. | :55:38. | |
than any other part of the country and there are none | :55:39. | :55:40. | |
Steve Cockburn has been fighting for a children's unit | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
His son Ben took his own life in an adult unit | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
What I don't understand is of the ?5 billion that the Tory | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
government talk about, can we have our five million | :55:53. | :55:55. | |
for Cornwall, please, so we can have a unit. | :55:56. | :55:57. | |
She has had to give up her job and has two other younger | :55:58. | :56:05. | |
They have said, you know, they can notice a difference | :56:06. | :56:08. | |
in Sasha when I go to see her, and can I come to see her more? | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
It isn't really possible, and now they are saying that it | :56:13. | :56:15. | |
It is so much harder for me to go there. | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
NHS England said it was reviewing its children and adolescent mental | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
health services to secure a more balanced distribution | :56:25. | :56:26. | |
A spokesman said it planned to eliminate inappropriate | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
Molly, I think everybody would accept that if people have | :56:31. | :56:44. | |
specialist conditions or exotic diseases than you might need to take | :56:45. | :56:47. | |
them along way from their homes to treat them but it seems | :56:48. | :56:50. | |
extraordinary that in this kind of incidents it is the only option. Not | :56:51. | :56:56. | |
only extraordinary, but really quite cruel, because these are people who | :56:57. | :56:59. | |
cannot cope with the stresses of travelling that distance. It is fine | :57:00. | :57:03. | |
for the Prime Minister to say she is very concerned as if she has | :57:04. | :57:06. | |
suddenly discovered this issue but the Conservatives have been in power | :57:07. | :57:15. | |
for seven years now so if we have a mental health crisis must be | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
to look for deeper causes of what is to look for deeper causes of what is | :57:19. | :57:20. | |
going on here because we saw a vulnerable young person that we know | :57:21. | :57:23. | |
the pressure in schools in testing and competitiveness and so one | :57:24. | :57:24. | |
encourages mental ill-health in young people and we have people | :57:25. | :57:27. | |
signing up for benefits are constantly being persecuted in terms | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
of looking at work and it is this kind of constant stress and pressure | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
that adds to the crisis. I saw 61 million prescriptions today for | :57:37. | :57:43. | |
antidepressants, and that is a vast amount of medication and we are just | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
not tackling the issue as we should. Sarah, I am quite interested in your | :57:49. | :57:52. | |
perspective as the chair of the health select committee because you | :57:53. | :57:53. | |
look at the whole range... We looked look at the whole range... We looked | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
at this specifically. Clearly there are many challenges. There are huge | :58:00. | :58:04. | |
challenges in children and adolescent mental health challenges | :58:05. | :58:07. | |
-- services and this has been around for a long time. What came across | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
from our enquiry was but the best way to help this is to invest in | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
early intervention because we know that half of mental illness starts | :58:17. | :58:22. | |
before the age of 15 and if we invest in early intervention the | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
plan is to try and not have children to a point when they are so unwell | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
that they need an admission of the first place and there are many | :58:31. | :58:33. | |
things that you can do in terms of assertive outreach and that has been | :58:34. | :58:36. | |
happening across Devon so it is an improving picture across Devon. | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
that we have just heard but I cannot that we have just heard but I cannot | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
comment on that but I don't have the circumstances but clearly we would | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
like children to be able to be cared for if they do need inpatient care | :58:50. | :58:52. | |
close to home. There have been things where we have seen genuine | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
progress such as the use of cells to detain children and young people, | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
that is unacceptable for any age of course, but particularly | :59:02. | :59:04. | |
unacceptable in children that is a the Theresa May has taken action on | :59:05. | :59:07. | |
and it is something that is now coming to an end. What about the | :59:08. | :59:14. | |
causes of ill health, the stresses the pressure, much more efficient to | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
deal with that long wait for the ill-health. I absolutely agree and | :59:19. | :59:21. | |
the health select committee is now together with the education select | :59:22. | :59:24. | |
committee we are starting a joint enquiry looking at how, what the bed | :59:25. | :59:28. | |
in the last enquiry was that most young people we spoke to wanted to | :59:29. | :59:32. | |
be seen in the context of the education system and yet teachers | :59:33. | :59:37. | |
feel ill equipped to actually deal with this. We know there is a rising | :59:38. | :59:42. | |
tide of problems and it is a shame that Labour towards the end of their | :59:43. | :59:46. | |
time in power cancelled the survey that was done. Candy has been keen | :59:47. | :59:51. | |
to get in. There are a huge number of pitches are lots that needs to be | :59:52. | :59:55. | |
done. Investment is starting to go now into children's services but | :59:56. | :59:58. | |
what we need to see is that it gets to the front line. Candy. The | :59:59. | :00:04. | |
issuing Liz that many children have been helped by the charity for Steve | :00:05. | :00:11. | |
Coburn to help their parents get around to visit them all around the | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
country and yet there is land that is available for a specialist centre | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
for young people in Cornwall to be residential, not carted off to | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
Edinburgh or all points north and south and west. In two years the | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
cost of the NHS would be recouped by the cost of us sending them out of | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
counting. I really say a challenge to the NHS in corbel, you have to | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
get on with this. It is absolutely cruel that young people are being | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
do it within two years. The do it within two years. The | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
financial envelope is there so we should get on with it. OK, we have | :00:48. | :00:49. | |
to get on with the programme but to get on with the programme but | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
thank you very much. Now our regular round-up | :00:52. | :00:52. | |
of the political week in 60 seconds. Students demonstrated | :00:53. | :01:02. | |
against fascism in Exeter after a swastika was scratched | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
into a door of the University. The Vice Chancellor also | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
condemned the vandalism. The trouble is it doesn't | :01:11. | :01:11. | |
fit with the character Those who want to see | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
Plymouth airport reopen are The City Council's new plan cuts | :01:18. | :01:29. | |
the time available before the site We believe there is no need | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
to develop Plymouth airport There is sufficient land | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
in the Plymouth area to meet Publicans say they are concerned | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
about big rises to business rates. One South Devon pub | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
is claiming their bill The government says | :01:45. | :01:46. | |
increases are capped. And Bodmin Moor is hoping to follow | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
Exmoor to get special Sarah, on the business rates issue, | :01:51. | :02:11. | |
I was a bit confused this week. There was a suggestion I would | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
and then the Prime Minister 's and then the Prime Minister 's | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
spokesman suggested that maybe not. I was in the chamber when Sergei | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
Javi Guerra that statement and it was very clear to those of us | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
sitting there that it sounded that something was going to be coming | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
forward for our high streets because in my constituency the high streets, | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
there are businesses there that will there are businesses there that will | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
see their rates increase increasingly even though for most of | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
the country it is good news picture so I am hoping that we will see | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
something in the budget. Candy, this is a familiar picture. Isn't it? I | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
imagine there will be a review and because the business rates are going | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
to local authorities my best bet is that the local authorities will end | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
up taking it and it is quite wrong that the government is allowing | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
Amazon to get away with it while our local high streets are getting head. | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
Totally with Candy, that is what I do with European Parliament, tried | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
to stop big corporations avoiding tax at the Independence cannot | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
compete. The trouble is they are based on rents are we need a review | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
of the system. Shift the tax towards the companies in the virtual space. | :03:22. | :03:29. | |
The system needs to be reviewed. Were ending on consensus, a | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
different kind of politics! We did agree slightly. | :03:34. | :03:34. | |
That's the Sunday Politics in the South West. | :03:35. | :03:36. | |
Welcome back. Article 50, which triggers the beginning of Britain | :03:37. | :03:56. | |
leaving the European Union and start negotiations, is winding its way | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
through the Lords in this coming week. Tarzan has made an | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
intervention, let's just see the headline from the Mail on Sunday. | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
Lord Heseltine, Michael Heseltine, my fightback starts here, he is | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
going to defy Theresa May. I divide one Prime Minister over the poll | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
tax, I'm ready to defy this one in the Lords over Brexit. There we go, | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
that's going to happen this week. We will see how far he gets. I don't | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
think he will get very far, I don't think Loyalist Tory MPs and | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
Brexiteers are quaking in their boots at the prospect of a rebellion | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
led by Michael Heseltine. I sense that many Tory MPs are already | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
moving on to the next question about Brexit, and the discussion over how | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
much it will cost us to come out. The fact they are already debating | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
that suggests to me they feel things will go fairly smoothly in terms of | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
the legislation. When I spoke to the Labour leader in the Lords last week | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
on the daily politics, she said she was going to push hard for the kind | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
of amendments Lord has all-time is talking about and they would bring | :05:06. | :05:14. | |
that back to the Commons. But if the Commons pinged it back to the Lords | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
with the amendments taken out, she made it clear that was the end of | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
it. Is that right? That's about right. This is probably really a | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
large destruction. There will be to micro issues that come up in the | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
Lords, one is on the future of EU nationals, that could be voted on as | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
soon as this Wednesday, and then the main vote in the Lords on a week on | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
Tuesday, when there is this question of what sort of vote will MPs and | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
peers get at the end of the Brexit process and that is what has | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
all-time is talking about. He wants to make sure there are guarantees in | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
place. The kind of things peers are looking for are pretty moderate and | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
the Government have hinted they could deliver on both of them | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
already. But they are still not prepared... Amber Rudd said they | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
were not prepared... They may say yes we are going to do that but they | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
won't allow whatever that is to be enshrined in the legislation. The | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
question is whether we think this is dancing on the head of a pin. The | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
Government have already promised something in the House of Commons, | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
but will they write it down, I don't think that's the biggest problem in | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
the world. In a sense this is a great magicians trick by Theresa May | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
because it is not the most important thing. The most important thing in | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
Brexit is going on in those committees behind closed doors when | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
they are trying to work out what the next migration system is for Britain | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
and there are some interesting, indeed toxic proposals, but at the | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
moment Downing Street are happy to let us talk about the constitutional | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
propriety of what MPs are doing over the next eight days. It seems to me | :06:57. | :07:03. | |
the irony is that if we had a second chamber that can claim some kind of | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
democratic legitimacy, which the one we have cannot, it would be able to | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
cause the Government more trouble on this, it would be more robust. | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
Absolutely. I saw the interview we did with the Labour Leader of the | :07:17. | :07:24. | |
Lords, they are very conscious, of the fact they are not elected and | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
have limited powers. She was clear to you they would not impede the | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
timetable for triggering Article 50 so we might get a bit of theatre, | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
Michael Heseltine might deliver a brilliant speech. It is interesting | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
that Euroscepticism gun under Margaret Thatcher in the Tory party | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
but two offer senior ministers Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine are the | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
most prominent opponents now but they will change nothing at this | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
point. She will have the space to trigger Article 50 within her | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
timetable. Let's move on. Let me show you a picture tweeted by Nigel | :08:01. | :08:02. | |
Farage. That is Nigel Farage and a small | :08:03. | :08:13. | |
group of people having dinner, and within that small group of people is | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
the president of the United States, and it was taken in the last couple | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
of days. This would suggest that if he can command that amount of the | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
President's time in a small group of people, then he's actually rather | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
close to the president. Make no mistake about it, Nigel Farage is | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
now to and fro Washington more regularly than perhaps he is here. | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
Hopefully that LBC programme is recorded over in the state. He's not | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
only close to the president but to a series of people within the | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
administration. That relationship there is a remarkable one and one to | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
keep an eye on. Will the main government be tempted to tap into | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
that relationship at any time or is it just seething with anger? You can | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
feel a ripple of discontentment over this. We are in the middle of | :09:09. | :09:15. | |
negotiating the state visit and the sort of pomp and circumstance and | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
what kind of greeting Britain should give Donald Trump when he comes over | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
later in the year. There is a great deal of neurotic thought going into | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
what that should look like, but one of the most interesting things about | :09:28. | :09:29. | |
our relationship with Donald Trump is that there is a nervousness among | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
some Cabinet ministers that we are being seen to go too far, too fast | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
with the prospect of a trade deal. Even amongst some Brexiteer cabinet | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
ministers, they worry we won't get a very good trade deal with the US and | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
we are tolerably placing a lot of stalled by it. When we see the kind | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
of deal they want to pitch with us there might be some pulling back and | :09:52. | :09:59. | |
that could be an awkward moment in terms of our relationship, and no | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
doubt Nigel at that term -- at that point will accuse the UK of doing | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
the dirty on Donald Trump. If there was a deal, would they get it | :10:08. | :10:15. | |
through the House of Commons? Nigel Farage is having dinner with the | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
president, not bad as a kind of lifestyle but he's politically | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
rootless, he won't be an MEP much longer so if you look at where is | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
his political base to build on this great time he's having, there is | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
one. Given that there is one I think he's just having a great time and it | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
isn't much more significant than that. No? There's a lot to be said | :10:36. | :10:45. | |
for having a great time. You are having a great time. Let's just | :10:46. | :10:54. | |
look, because of the dominance of the Government we kind of it nor | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
there are problems piling up, only what, ten days with the Budget to | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
go, piling up for Mrs May and her government. The business rates which | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
has alarmed a lot of Tories, this disability cuts which are really a | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
serious problem for the Government, and the desperate need for more | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
money for social care. There are other issues, there are problems | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
there and they involve spending money. Absolutely and some people | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
argue Theresa May has only one Monday and that is to deliver Brexit | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
but it is impossible as a Prime Minister to ignore everything else. | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
And she doesn't want to either. The bubbling issue of social care and | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
the NHS is the biggest single problem for her in the weeks and | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
months ahead, she has got to come up with something. And Mr Hammond will | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
have to loosen his belt a little bit. I think he will in relation to | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
the NHS, he didn't mention it in the Autumn Statement, which was | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
remarkable, and he cannot get away with not mentioning it this time. If | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
he mentions it, it has to be in a positive context in some way or | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
another and it is one example of many. She is both strong because she | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
is so far ahead in the opinion polls, but this in tray is one of | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
the most daunting a Prime Minister has faced in recent times I think. | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
Here is what will happen on Budget day, money will be more money, | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
magically found down the back of the Treasury sofa. The projections are | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
that he has wiggle room of about 12 billion. But look at the bills, | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
rebels involved in business rates suggest the Chancellor will have to | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
throw up ?2 billion at that problem. 3.7 billion is the potential cost of | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
this judgment about disability benefits. The Government will try to | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
find different ways of satisfying it but who knows. It will not popular. | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
I'm not sure they will throw money at the NHS, they want an interim | :12:55. | :12:57. | |
settlement on social care which will alleviate pressure on the NHS but | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
they feel... That's another couple of billion by the way. They feel in | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
the Treasury that the NHS has not delivered on what Simon Stevens | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
promised them. But here is the bigger problem for Philip Hammond, | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
he has two This year and he thinks the second one in the autumn is more | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
important because that is when people will feel the cost living | :13:23. | :13:23. | |
squeeze. The Daily Politics is back at noon | :13:24. | :13:25. | |
on BBC Two tomorrow. We'll be back here at | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
the same time next week. Remember - if it's Sunday, | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:33. | :13:38. |