13/10/2013 Sunday Politics South


13/10/2013

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Morning, welcome to the veritable pot pourri that is this morning's

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Sunday Politics. We have Alastair Charmichael. We'll ask him what he

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has that his predecessor Michael Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps

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going on and on and on. He'll bang his drum for Europe.

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Free of the shackles of Government, former Energy Secretary Chris Huhne

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will be with us. We'll ask him for the inside scoop.

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And coming up in the South... From Diane Abbott

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And coming up in the South... From here to eternity, the cost

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And coming up in the South... From says we've misunderstood the problem

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of human trafficking and that men are the forgotten victims.

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And with me, as always, are the forgotten victims.

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pundits who we try to shuffle out of a job but failed miserably, Mick

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watt, Miranda Green Andijan an Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if

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Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen

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a a shift to the lot of. Two have announced policy changes which could

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Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves says Labour will be tougher on the

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Tories. While Tristram Hunt says Labour loves Tory-style free schools

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after all. Here he is on the BBC viewers. If you are a group of

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parents, social entrepreneurs, teachers, interested in setting

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parents, social entrepreneurs, school in areas where you need new

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school place, the Labour Government will be on your side. That's free

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enterprise and innovation. It will will be on your side. That's free

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be in areas of need. We have a school places crisis going on. It

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teachers in these schools. And accountability. What is going on

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with the Al Madina school is because of terrible mistakes with Michael

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changed, the change of tone is I'm not sure if the policies have

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changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and

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changed, the change of tone is schools. A significant change of

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reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge

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of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.

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Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi different on substance but saying

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Labour will be tough than the Tories on welfare. You've seen that clip

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from Tristram, free schools will be allowed to be set up in areas of

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need. Greater oversight. But a completely different change of tone,

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we are on the side of parents and social entrepreneurs who want to set

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these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,

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polarised. You've had the Michael department. This weekend, we've

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polarised. You've had the Michael leaked memos from one of Michael

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Gove's advisers which are extreme views about the state of education.

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And on the other side teaching unions. It hasn't led to a healthy

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debate which represents what parents want out of schools or employers.

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This is a huge move from the Labour Party to sound more reasonable.

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This is a huge move from the Labour have been silent on education which

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is a huge policy area on the left. Is this a focus group-driven change?

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They've seen the polls. Welfare reforms are hugery popular and free

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only apiece the focus groups by changing the policy substantially. I

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always thought a test for this Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed

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Miliband would promote Blair rights, it is clear he did, it is whether

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they would be allowed to be Blair rights. When Stephen Twigg carried

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the education portfolio it was clear his own views were closer to the

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Government than he was allowed to let on. He was constrained. There is

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no point of giving Tristram Hunt this job if he is not allowed to say

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what he thinks. I wouldn't mind betting privately he thinks free

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schools should be available beyond just areas of need. He hasn't yet

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defined need. It could be, we've run schools are so bad we need schools.

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If that is it, it is the same Asics itsing Government policy. In they

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unsatisfactory that's no different. He wanted to say he was in favour of

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higher educational standards and rigour, he had to tell the audience

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he has a Cambridge PhD to attack Michael Gove. That was difficult for

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Tristram Hunt he had to mention that. Is that worth something, a PhD

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from Cambridge? Obviously to him it is. He said they would demand proper

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teaching qualifications. That could teaching? Independent schools do not

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have to have teachers with formal teaching qualifications. I've never

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been to one? What about you? That decision by Michael Gove to allow

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free schools to employ nonunionised and non-trained people, so he has to

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Watch this space. The dust settled after the party resufficients. Do

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the Tories look a bit more like Britain. Do the Tories look more

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#4 With reshuffles, you're never really certain. There's whispers,

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rumours, guesses. But the only way to know it is underway is keeping

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beady eyes on a front door. Up until now, the only way we knew who was in

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and who was out was who came walking down this bit of Downing Street

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and who was out was who came walking a smile on their face after going to

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see the boss. The once who are to be sacked, they usually go round the

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back. Not this time. No, something new alerted us all. The-PM started

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can't remember a triple decker reshuffle where you've three parties

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changing ministerial teams at the resufficient happened on Twitter.

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Not that the press stopped watching the door as well. News was a bit

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Charmichael replaced Michael Moore, the first to be pounced on. I'm

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disappointed to be leaving office now but pleased at what I've been

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able to achieve in the last couple of years. Not as pleased as one

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imagines as the man receiving the welcome that went on, and on and

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simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, in a sense seen off the premises of

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the Home Office in conspiracy to let # Blowing hi Jude through a traffic

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Democrats. We tend to think they are herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet

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Minister, another minister, Jeremy Browne. By lunch time, the Tory

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ranks were shifting too. The PM Browne. By lunch time, the Tory

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to boost the numbers of telegenic women walking into Government and

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turning perceptions around. He tipped a so-called flatcap to men

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backgrounds with room for some which fitted neither label but are friends

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of George Osborne. And, all the while, those new Tory ministers

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of George Osborne. And, all the learning of Labour's changes. Labour

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too knows the value of new young blood striding into the limelight.

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Again some with TV experience of that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de

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peer row would be hard to describe as hard left. But Blairbrushing

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peer row would be hard to describe past out of the picture seemed to be

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the name of the day. Liam Byrne With Diane Abbott also gone, was

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this really a Blair right cull? It depends what you mean. Blair right

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used to mean someone who wanted depends what you mean. Blair right

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Blair to be leader of the Labour Party. Somebody who worked closely

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with him. Now it means sometimes people who believe in a certain

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with him. Now it means sometimes of ideologyies or ideas. There are

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still very much those kind of Blair rights within the party. But we

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still very much those kind of Blair seeing the group around Tony Blair

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are not long assassin flew enjoys as they once were. By evening, it was

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over. New bees were sharing the ministers quietly thanked commits

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raters. Or -- commiserators. Or ministers quietly thanked commits

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disified. How much much someone standing here might want it to be

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the case, you are unlikely to get someone coming out of that do going

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"how could." And running off crying! And the brand, spanking new Scottish

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Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins us from Orkney on a line that hasn't

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been used since the fleet was used in the outbreak of World War I! I

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wasn't around at the time. I'm hearing you loud and clear. Why

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wasn't around at the time. I'm you agreed to run a department?

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wasn't around at the time. I'm you wanted to abolish six years

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wasn't around at the time. I'm Hello? Maybe our connections are not

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Charmichael. Can you hear me? I Hello? Maybe our connections are not

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hear you now. There was a nasty second there where you disappeared.

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Let me try the question again. Why have you agreed to run a department

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you wanted to abolish six years have you agreed to run a department

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Because this is the, probably one of the most important jobs in British

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politics at the moment. To ensure that Scotland remains part of the

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UK. Even when I was talking about the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs

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of Scotland -- representation of Scotland within Whitehall, there was

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always a job to be done. That is true in spades now. I will focus on

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making sure the UK Government has a real voice in that debate. What

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making sure the UK Government has a you that Michael Moore didn't have?

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Look, I think Michael Moore did you that Michael Moore didn't have?

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excellent job. The work he did delivering the Edinburgh agreement

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clear legal and decisive referendum, the work delivering extra powers to

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substantial piece of work. I'm not friend of mine. I will say that

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substantial piece of work. I'm not we go forward into this, this is now

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about the actual debate itself. we go forward into this, this is now

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will be putting the case, with some passion, I hope, for Scotland to

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just some abstract debate about nationhood, sovereignty, this is a

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their livelihoods, the cost of their mortgage. That and an awful lot

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challenge. I understand that. But if you're being put in there to save

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the union, every pole has the no -- poll has the no campaign margin

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alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing pretty well to save the union. I

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suspect you've been given the job to Scotland? And lieu, you misread

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suspect you've been given the job to situation if you -- Andrew, you

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misread the situation new think anybody is going to be the person

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who will save the union. The people who will save the union are the

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people of Scotland if they turn who will save the union are the

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next year and vote to save the union. We have to put the case for

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that. That is what I will be doing. Look at the position of your own

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party. You came fourth in the last Scottish parentry elections. You

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were even behind the Conservatives. The latest poll has you still in

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fourth. Are you there because you're a bruiser and you will pep up the

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Liberal Democrats opportunity in Scotland. If I had a pound for

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everybody to referred to me as being Scotland. If I had a pound for

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a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be sitting here this morning. I could

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have retired by now. The truth of this, if I can address it once and

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for all, I have done probably one of the most complex and subtle jobs in

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three-and-a-half years, Liberal Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition

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survived in that job a week, let alone three-and-a-half years, if I

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was the sort of person who went around picking unnecessary fights.

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So, can we just please forget about this business about being a bruiser.

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As far as the position of the party in the polls, this is true also

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As far as the position of the party the referendum vote, opinion polls

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are a snapshot. They are not a prediction of what will happen in

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the future. I will be out there putting the case. Neither the next

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election nor the referendum is one or lost yet. One of the things I

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really want to be guarding against because we are a good margin ahead

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today, 12 months out from the actual polling day, that it is in the bag.

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Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As you know, wasn't for the Liberal

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Democrats. Not just talking about the polls. You came fourth in the

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You said you were happy to facial ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should

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David Cameron face him? I am happy debate. Should David Cameron face

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him? No, because that allows Alex Nationalists to portray this as

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him? No, because that allows Alex sort of contest or choice between a

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vision of Scottish social democracy and English conservativism, which it

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is not. This is a debate that has to is not. This is a debate that has to

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be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David

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Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is

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not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,

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the person who should be debating Darling. He has got a Scottish name

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wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described

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the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were

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you referring to the campaign or referring to Alistair Darling. I

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think what I was saying is that referring to Alistair Darling. I

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we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we

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are now campaigning for people Alistair Darling said it himself, we

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hearts because if you look at the range of papers the Government has

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published, it is pretty clear the arguments lie in relation to the

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head. I am not giving up the battle for the hearts and Scotland because

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there is a good strong case, as somebody who is proud to be Scottish

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and to be British, for Scotland somebody who is proud to be Scottish

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remain part of the UK. You come somebody who is proud to be Scottish

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distilleries and I understand you celebratory drink for your new post.

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Not a drop has touched my lips. celebratory drink for your new post.

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supporting local business! I will be making up for lost time on the

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supporting local business! I will be of November, I will be doing it

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supporting local business! I will be aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if

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website, they can donate. It is worthwhile. I cannot think of a

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better cause. One Cabinet minister who many thought might get Reef

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better cause. One Cabinet minister Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics.

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minorities, where did you fit in? I minorities, where did you fit in? I

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would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it

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would describe myself as the elder difficult to replace them. I enjoy

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it. It is a great privilege to have a role in Cabinet and I will carry

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on as long as David wants me to a role in Cabinet and I will carry

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I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have

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survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this

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reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call,

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asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my

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role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings

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of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.

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You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why

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You said you are going to stand you keep going? What do you hope to

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achieve in politics? I am mostly a political anorak, I have been since

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I was very small, by the process of politics but the older I get I get

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governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems

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is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is

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is quite appalling. The difficulty difficult and I find it fascinating.

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The old argument that attracts every decent person into politics, you

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might be able sometimes to make decent person into politics, you

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bit of difference, and I try to decent person into politics, you

:20:34.:20:37.

that. I try not to hark back on decent person into politics, you

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experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the

:20:40.:20:43.

Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on

:20:43.:20:50.

Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain

:20:50.:20:56.

adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda

:20:56.:21:03.

on Britain's membership to the EU? I accountable to the long-term and

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representatives, but this is a minority now and my colleagues have

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firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of

:21:19.:21:23.

Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is

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Britain's relationship with the of the most important things in

:21:27.:21:31.

Britain's place in the modern world politicians are able to look after

:21:31.:21:37.

the living standards, the economy, the safety against terrorism. Last

:21:37.:21:44.

the living standards, the economy, summer you said that only extreme

:21:44.:21:48.

nationalists wanted a silly EU referendum. It follows your party

:21:48.:21:54.

must be full of extremely silly nationalists. The people who are

:21:54.:22:00.

desperate to have a referendum are all the people who actually want to

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referendum will involve the public and people like me have got to get

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across to the public, don't just feel angry about the last thing

:22:11.:22:14.

across to the public, don't just read in the newspaper about what the

:22:14.:22:16.

commission is or is not doing, do commission is or is not doing, do

:22:16.:22:21.

bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a

:22:21.:22:29.

leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from

:22:29.:22:35.

influence in events. That is not just how the politicians get on

:22:35.:22:40.

influence in events. That is not politicians look after us when we

:22:40.:22:47.

spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being

:22:47.:22:52.

threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will

:22:52.:23:00.

threatened. You didn't even turn up engagements on the Friday concerned.

:23:00.:23:03.

It seemed to get through without my participation. You didn't want to be

:23:03.:23:06.

seen voting for something your heart Look, many of your colleagues I

:23:06.:23:16.

seen voting for something your heart interviewed say that if the choice

:23:16.:23:23.

was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and

:23:23.:23:28.

leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in

:23:28.:23:32.

even on the status quo, wouldn't supporting the EU to leave now if I

:23:32.:23:40.

got chance. I think our economy supporting the EU to leave now if I

:23:41.:23:45.

investment, as in Washington last been if we were outside the EU.

:23:45.:23:54.

investment, as in Washington last week. We are trying to roll forward

:23:54.:24:01.

the prospect of free trade and I have to reassure Americans that

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the prospect of free trade and I are not likely to leave the EU to

:24:04.:24:09.

That is true but it also needs reform. The cry for reform, which is

:24:09.:24:14.

particularly Germany, is a good reform. The cry for reform, which is

:24:14.:24:22.

Even if David Cameron came back reform. The cry for reform, which is

:24:22.:24:24.

nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?

:24:24.:24:33.

one which is dwindling in comparison with others, in the modern world it

:24:33.:24:39.

would be dangerous. I also think the dangers of the Middle East and the

:24:39.:24:43.

dangers of some of the countries disengage. I will take that as a

:24:43.:24:54.

strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree

:24:54.:25:00.

persuaded when David delivers his reforms. The latest poll gives

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Labour a ten point lead over the Tories and the reason why it has a

:25:06.:25:10.

ten point lead is because UKIP are up there with 18% of the vote and

:25:10.:25:14.

ten point lead is because UKIP are the Tory vote has slumped in the

:25:14.:25:19.

Paul to 27%. How would you see off UKIP? By saying you need a strong

:25:19.:25:25.

Paul to 27%. How would you see off and effective Government. We faced

:25:25.:25:30.

terrible problems. Every Government I have been in has been behind in

:25:30.:25:35.

the polls. This Government is not as popular as the previous Government I

:25:36.:25:40.

have served in under the three previous prime ministers. When you

:25:40.:25:42.

get an election, people have to previous prime ministers. When you

:25:42.:25:46.

themselves who do we want to decide the issues of war and peace in this

:25:46.:25:52.

country? Who do we want to get us out of our economic problems. I

:25:53.:25:58.

don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. That generalised stuff will not

:25:59.:26:03.

don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. off UKIP. People will not listen to

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that. When people answer an opinion poll, they tell you how annoyed

:26:07.:26:11.

that. When people answer an opinion are by something that has recently

:26:11.:26:16.

upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government

:26:16.:26:20.

I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you

:26:20.:26:27.

have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern

:26:27.:26:36.

us? They did take over a calamitous important problems to be decided

:26:36.:26:44.

going forward. UKIP represents anti-immigration, anti-foreigners,

:26:44.:26:48.

anti-Europe, anti-politics but I don't think it will get 18% of the

:26:49.:26:51.

Thank you. Once upon a time, a politician whose career ended in

:26:51.:27:25.

disgrace might choose to lie low for a while, perhaps to spend a bit

:27:25.:27:28.

disgrace might choose to lie low for time tending the tulips and doing

:27:28.:27:30.

the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from

:27:30.:27:32.

prison only five months ago but Chris Huhne. He walked free from

:27:32.:27:35.

former Energy Secretary is already back in the public eye - a column in

:27:35.:27:39.

the Guardian, a job with a renewable interview. So is he working on a

:27:39.:27:43.

political rehabilitation? Chris Politics. The answer to that is

:27:43.:27:46.

clearly know, and thank you for inviting me back. You have set your

:27:46.:27:49.

career in politics is over so what does the future hold for you? I

:27:49.:27:54.

career in politics is over so what happy doing what I am doing, I am

:27:54.:27:57.

passionate about green energy and climate change, so I am doing things

:27:57.:28:02.

on that front in terms of business non-governmental organisations,

:28:02.:28:08.

on that front in terms of business I am doing a column for the Guardian

:28:08.:28:09.

on Mondays. You obviously get a I am doing a column for the Guardian

:28:09.:28:13.

of material from the Sunday Politics to write about. Have you embarked on

:28:13.:28:20.

political rehabilitation? It was clear from the point of view of

:28:20.:28:24.

political rehabilitation? It was George when I was sentenced, he

:28:24.:28:28.

rehabilitating you, because I had not offended for ten years, it was

:28:28.:28:32.

actually about stopping people like you, Andrew, Ron doing the same

:28:32.:28:38.

thing. It was a deterrent effect for the public. That is I think why

:28:38.:28:44.

thing. It was a deterrent effect for prosecution was brought. I had not

:28:44.:28:46.

offended for ten years on this, rehabilitate yourself in the public?

:28:46.:29:17.

coalition to the bitter end? Or should they re-establish their own

:29:17.:29:23.

Coalition agreement is for the whole Parliament, and the Lib Dems are

:29:23.:29:29.

going to stay, and should stay. What would be a good result for the Lib

:29:30.:29:33.

Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, would be a good result for the Lib

:29:33.:29:40.

interesting election because I think you will have essentially three

:29:40.:29:45.

party leaders, all of whom are negative ratings so it will be a

:29:46.:29:54.

battle between the walking wounded. In those circumstances, in my view,

:29:54.:30:00.

the Lib Dems can come out very well. But you will lose seats, won't

:30:00.:30:12.

the Liberal Democrats do badly in next year's European elections,

:30:12.:30:16.

the Liberal Democrats do badly in could come fourth on fifth behind

:30:16.:30:16.

leadership be in jeopardy? I've could come fourth on fifth behind

:30:16.:30:24.

in countless cycles where we've could come fourth on fifth behind

:30:25.:30:30.

very low poll ratings. The normal pickup to the subsequent general

:30:30.:30:35.

election on average has been 10 percentage points. So he's not in

:30:35.:30:39.

jeopardy? I think Nick will be there at the next general election. I

:30:39.:30:41.

think he'll lead the party into at the next general election. I

:30:41.:30:44.

next general election. I expect we'll do much better than most

:30:44.:30:47.

people think. If we are heading we'll do much better than most

:30:48.:30:52.

another hung Parliament, which is Let's be honest, you'd rather be in

:30:52.:30:56.

coalition with the Labour Party Let's be honest, you'd rather be in

:30:56.:31:00.

have a repeat of the Conservatives? One of the key things I sawed to

:31:00.:31:05.

colleagues, whatever your personal preference, I used to be a Labour

:31:05.:31:09.

Party member, you can derive from that I'm on the left of centre of

:31:09.:31:14.

the party. I always said to my colleagues in the party, it is

:31:14.:31:20.

the we are in politics because we are Liberal Democrats, not because

:31:20.:31:23.

we are either Conservatives or second best Labour. If you don't

:31:23.:31:28.

take that view, you don't have any bargaining position when it comes to

:31:29.:31:33.

coalition. You have to be able, genuinely, to do a coalition with

:31:33.:31:37.

either of the other parties. I understand that, but you'd prefer

:31:37.:31:41.

Labour? Your personal preference really should not come into this. It

:31:41.:31:45.

is about making sure you get the best possible deal for the things

:31:46.:31:52.

you get that with one party rather than another, that's fine. You stand

:31:52.:31:55.

up for Liberal Democrat values, than another, that's fine. You stand

:31:55.:31:59.

for Conservative or Labour second best values. You said you're keeping

:31:59.:32:04.

up your interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise

:32:04.:32:10.

up your interest in energy matters. temporary price freeze? There's

:32:10.:32:13.

up your interest in energy matters. pop ewe louse posturing. It is not a

:32:13.:32:17.

sensible policy. It was tried in California in 2,000 and 2001 which

:32:18.:32:22.

led to blackouts. We had the Prime Minister promising we should sift

:32:22.:32:27.

everybody automatically to the unfortunately we're at the stage in

:32:27.:32:34.

the political cycle where we are getting clap trap. You're against

:32:34.:32:41.

the freeze? It is a bad idea when we are trying to encourage investment.

:32:41.:32:44.

When the market can give us some of the lowest gas and electricity

:32:44.:32:50.

son-in-law of the lowest? Not our base price? The other European Ian

:32:50.:32:53.

prices are only higher because they put a lot more taxes on to it? Our

:32:53.:32:58.

base energy prices are among the highest in Europe? No, if you look

:32:58.:33:04.

at EU comparisons in what goes out to people's households. That's after

:33:04.:33:06.

all the taxes have been put on them? to people's households. That's after

:33:06.:33:10.

green taxes is George Osborne with should no better. One the-hip ok

:33:10.:33:50.

not want it. We do not need it to agreement because the Conservatives

:33:50.:34:00.

not want it. We do not need it to electricity system. It was a revenue

:34:00.:34:02.

raising measure by the Tories. It set off a whole load of hairs about

:34:02.:34:06.

green taxes which are now coming home to roost. Final point to you,

:34:06.:34:12.

wish we'd more time to talk, you're a big supporter of Leveson-style

:34:12.:34:17.

press regulation. Will you stop writing for The Guardian if it

:34:17.:34:21.

refuses to sign up to the Leveson charter? I think that's neither here

:34:21.:34:28.

nor there. The Guardian gives me a great platform. If it doesn't sign

:34:28.:34:32.

up to what you believe in will you support it? No because I'm sure

:34:32.:34:38.

they'll allow me to make that that point. I think newspapers will sign

:34:38.:34:43.

up for it. They've had a collapse in public trust and confidence in

:34:43.:34:47.

recent years. Unparalleled. They need a third party endorsement to

:34:47.:34:51.

say these guys have cleaned up their act. If they are going to get trust

:34:51.:34:55.

back and they will. When they haven't signed up, which they won't,

:34:55.:34:59.

you can come back and we'll talk about it.

:34:59.:35:03.

You're watching the Sunday politics. Coming up in about 20 minutes, we'll

:35:03.:35:06.

talk to Welcome to Sunday Politics South.

:35:06.:35:23.

My name is Peter Henley. On today's show...

:35:23.:35:28.

Are we in danger of running out of places to bury the dead? Council

:35:28.:35:32.

cemeteries are filling up, so will we have to accept that a burial

:35:32.:35:35.

place is not for the afterlife, but only for a century or less? First

:35:35.:35:47.

the goal, Lamy introduced my guests for today. Energy prices going up.

:35:47.:35:54.

It is getting colder and people are having to put the heating on, what

:35:55.:35:59.

about this idea of capping electricity prices? It is popular

:35:59.:36:07.

initially, but I think it would shortly unravel. People are

:36:07.:36:14.

sceptical. In idea that you could declare an arbitrary price in the

:36:14.:36:22.

markets would not react to that. The needy pleased to hear someone

:36:22.:36:30.

articulating that energy prices are high, but it is the detail of the

:36:31.:36:37.

solution he is proposing. To say you were just that are not take into

:36:37.:36:43.

account the implications on the market of whether, for instance, the

:36:43.:36:49.

places change. It is essentially something all politicians agree

:36:49.:36:53.

with, but it is how you deal with this in the long—term. He said he

:36:53.:37:05.

was going to freeze prices poll the market was reset and that is going

:37:05.:37:10.

to be the problem. We have seen recently, the rising energy prices

:37:10.:37:18.

are getting out of hand in relation to the real price of electricity and

:37:18.:37:26.

gas. And this is opportunity mystic of him, because clearly, the first

:37:26.:37:32.

point where he could implicate this would be in two years time. No, that

:37:32.:37:40.

is something which is common knowledge, so I think he has been

:37:40.:37:43.

straight down the line about that, that this is a policy that the

:37:43.:37:48.

Labour Party would implement straightaway as they got into power.

:37:48.:37:58.

It is just the start of finding a long—term solution to the problems

:37:58.:38:03.

of pricing in the energy sector. I think it is wishful thinking on the

:38:03.:38:11.

part of the Labour leadership. They have caused many of the problems of

:38:11.:38:18.

today. We know that the energy prices are too high and that is why

:38:18.:38:22.

the Prime Minister suggested that everyone be put on the lowest

:38:22.:38:28.

tariff. But just to say that a politician can say we will guarantee

:38:28.:38:31.

this space to years down the line, is not something which can really be

:38:32.:38:35.

done. Parlez—vous Francais? Sprechen sie

:38:35.:38:40.

Deutsch? Chances are it is non and nein. As a nation, we are

:38:40.:38:45.

notoriously poor at learning other people's languages and, according to

:38:45.:38:48.

research out this week, that could be getting worse. The number of

:38:48.:38:51.

universities offering specialist language degrees has dropped by 40%

:38:51.:38:55.

in the last 15 years, yet the CBI reckons that we are already being

:38:55.:38:59.

held back in the export stakes by a national lack of language skills.

:38:59.:39:04.

Mike Kelly is Head of Languages at the University of Southampton. A

:39:05.:39:07.

former adviser to the Labour government, he now heads the current

:39:07.:39:10.

government's Routes Into Languages programme. A set that students do

:39:10.:39:20.

not want to do languages or just that the courses are being cut back?

:39:20.:39:26.

I think a lot of students want to do languages, but there are a lot of

:39:26.:39:37.

obstacles. Part of the problem is that there needs to be specialists

:39:37.:39:48.

late on in school and also, it is something about the unpredictability

:39:48.:39:53.

of how people make do and exams. It tends to be one of the more

:39:53.:40:03.

unpredictable ones, doesn't it? There have been changes at GCSE

:40:03.:40:11.

level, which we are hoping will be sustained. Certainly, getting people

:40:11.:40:20.

to learn difficult subjects is harder, but you have to give

:40:20.:40:23.

recognition for what people achieve. Why is that not working?

:40:23.:40:31.

Particularly at a level, the papers are being graded far too severely.

:40:31.:40:39.

Far fewer people are getting a star and languages than in any other

:40:39.:40:48.

subject. And that is when the pupils are just as bright motivated those

:40:48.:40:52.

taking the likes of chemistry and mathematics. I do not quite

:40:52.:40:57.

understand this. They are getting good teaching and pitting and the

:40:57.:41:03.

effort, but you are saying that the bar is actually been set for 2—1?

:41:03.:41:08.

Yes, I think they are too severe. I do not think they give recognition

:41:08.:41:13.

for the achievement that the student has. The outcome University, ugly

:41:13.:41:20.

tending to take it alongside a degree course, rather than as a

:41:20.:41:30.

first subject. Yes, oil language degrees are struggling, students are

:41:30.:41:33.

coming into language courses and a large way. They are maybe combining

:41:33.:41:38.

them with the likes of engineering or business. And a lot of people are

:41:38.:41:45.

coming in to do extracurricular activities. There is a huge demand

:41:45.:41:50.

for languages. Is it not the old British disease that we expect

:41:51.:41:57.

everyone to speak English? Yes, at his still part of the problem, but I

:41:57.:42:02.

think that people are waking up. The fact that the rest of the world is

:42:02.:42:06.

learning English is not for our benefit. The bottom line is, if you

:42:06.:42:21.

have a company who are working within a number of different

:42:21.:42:24.

countries, if you require these languages, at the moment, they may

:42:25.:42:32.

be forced to hire abroad. In business, it is important that we

:42:32.:42:37.

have people with the skills which will help us build a new markets.

:42:37.:42:47.

Where as the problem? I think it goes back to 2004, when languages

:42:47.:42:55.

were taken note of the essential aspect of the curriculum. We do not

:42:55.:43:06.

want to sacrifice languages. The good thing about the new

:43:06.:43:10.

qualification is that it measures many things, such as sciences, my

:43:10.:43:15.

mathematics and languages. I wonder if we should reduce the standard to

:43:15.:43:20.

encourage more people to do it. I think we are hoping more people will

:43:20.:43:25.

do it at GCSE and then flowed through. I do not think it is about

:43:25.:43:31.

reducing the standard. What seems to be going on is a different range of

:43:31.:43:42.

considerations languages, as well as other subject. It is about getting

:43:43.:43:48.

the comparable comparability of the market, so that people think if I

:43:48.:43:54.

take a languages A—level, I am just as likely to be alongside those who

:43:54.:43:59.

have got a similar grade in different subjects. As merely a lack

:43:59.:44:06.

of a real availability, and so much is that if you do a certain subject,

:44:06.:44:10.

it may prevent you from doing the likes of music or some other subject

:44:10.:44:17.

that you like? Yes, there is still this worry that the rest of the

:44:17.:44:22.

world is speaking English, so we no longer required to speak any other

:44:22.:44:29.

language. We have the likes of Mandarin, Portuguese and Russian.

:44:29.:44:36.

Out proving more popular these days? The bottom line is, whatever foreign

:44:36.:44:40.

language you learn, it will help you learn other languages. If you speak

:44:40.:44:49.

French, for example, it will give you a great deal of background about

:44:50.:44:56.

what is needed to do if you then went on to learn Russian.

:44:57.:45:03.

We have heard a lot about the cost of living recently, but it seems

:45:03.:45:07.

even the cost of dying is on the up. The average cost of a basic funeral

:45:07.:45:12.

is up just over 5% on last year and, added to that, it will not be long

:45:12.:45:15.

before some councils start running out of burial plots. As our Dorset

:45:15.:45:18.

political reporter Tristan Pascoe has been finding out, there is a

:45:18.:45:29.

grave crisis ahead. This is the sort of place people would like to have

:45:29.:45:39.

as our final resting place —a quaint country yard and a pleasant place

:45:39.:45:42.

for loved ones to come and visitors. But for many that will not

:45:42.:45:50.

be possible. The space in our cemeteries in graveyards is rapidly

:45:50.:45:57.

running out. Obviously, a tizzy problem, we have about two years

:45:57.:46:01.

left in the provision of boreal spaces. It is a similar picture

:46:01.:46:08.

across much of the south. Christchurch, the time frame for

:46:09.:46:14.

having the most elderly population in the country, will run out of body

:46:14.:46:24.

within eight years. In Poole, it is an even bigger concern. We have some

:46:24.:46:29.

plans for remodelling the cemeteries we do have. The plan is not to use

:46:29.:46:37.

move their graves, but to maybe use the likes of the pathways in car

:46:37.:46:42.

parks to better utilise the area. With urban sites nearly feel, people

:46:42.:46:48.

are looking for out—of—town alternatives. This may be appeals

:46:48.:47:02.

more to people who want something more out into the open, which is

:47:02.:47:06.

more in keeping also with green issues. We think we will be a

:47:06.:47:13.

benefit to the environment, rather than a detriment. There is a greater

:47:13.:47:19.

emphasis on the trees and what is growing around does and I think that

:47:20.:47:23.

is what people want and need 21st—century. This is an expensive

:47:23.:47:33.

business. The cost of a boreal can depend greatly great you live, going

:47:34.:47:39.

from the likes of £1300 in Portsmouth, up to £1800 in raiding

:47:40.:47:46.

and other expenses and take the average cost up to £7,000. With

:47:46.:47:51.

burial space running out, maybe it is time to forget the idea that a

:47:51.:48:04.

boreal lot is for eternity. Is the case for what some councils are

:48:04.:48:09.

doing really our gasoline digging up old but real places. That is not

:48:09.:48:13.

something we would ever be intending to do. I think that is a horrible

:48:13.:48:20.

thought. That will not be happening in the foreseeable future. This

:48:20.:48:26.

cemetery was deemed fool and closed 20 years ago, but it has now been

:48:26.:48:34.

reopened, with the council digging up pathways like this to create

:48:34.:48:39.

extra burial plot. It is a move likely to be repeated across the

:48:39.:48:45.

country as councils look to make use of every available space. You see

:48:45.:48:53.

this is not unusual to use different spaces within the boreal area?

:48:53.:48:59.

Historically, that this what happened and all the ancient

:48:59.:49:04.

churchyards. All the gravestones redlined up along the edge and

:49:04.:49:08.

people were buried the top of each other before Victorian times. The

:49:08.:49:15.

combination of the huge increase in population and the idea that the

:49:15.:49:27.

graveyard was for eternity. We have to take careful consideration of the

:49:28.:49:35.

amount of space. And some of the ideas, such as woodland burials and

:49:35.:49:41.

other ways of doing things, are very important. We simply cannot go on

:49:41.:49:45.

for ever taking up more around with an increasing population, with a

:49:45.:49:52.

large plot for everybody. What about the cost? When is a huge nation.

:49:52.:50:02.

There's hundreds of pounds difference between the cost of

:50:02.:50:06.

cremation. Are these companies doing this to make money? Yes, they are as

:50:06.:50:19.

such a strange thing going on, I think we really need to get all the

:50:19.:50:24.

councils talking to the commission places in the local area and finding

:50:24.:50:30.

out why there's such a difference. I believe the of Justice has got this

:50:30.:50:37.

under review. Creative solutions need to be found, flexible solutions

:50:37.:50:44.

on the ground. These high costs you mentioned are exceptional. These are

:50:44.:50:49.

not related directly to boreal space, but it seems crazy that you

:50:49.:50:58.

should be paying maybe up to ten times as much for budding your loved

:50:58.:51:02.

one depending on where you live. It is always nice when your

:51:02.:51:06.

community gets an accolade of being top of some list or other, but maybe

:51:06.:51:10.

not so much when it is in a book called Crap Towns. It is not top,

:51:10.:51:14.

but third. Chipping Norton in Oxfordshire gets that particular

:51:14.:51:16.

wooden spoon this week. The citation puts the blame firmly on the

:51:16.:51:20.

Chipping Norton Set, which has to be the first time that having a Prime

:51:20.:51:23.

Minister in the neighbourhood is been seen as bringing down the tone

:51:23.:51:37.

of the place. Patrick is the cheer of discovering Chipping Norton and

:51:37.:51:42.

also owns a book shop in the town. Did you start this book? We have a

:51:42.:51:57.

book shop and cafe. We are such an easy target. This idea of the

:51:57.:52:07.

Chipping Norton Set is silly. None of these people actually live there.

:52:07.:52:17.

We are being criticised for treating people differently than anyone else.

:52:17.:52:27.

People are content to let the Chipping Norton Set get away with

:52:27.:52:39.

it. I always thought, if this was going on in London, everyone would

:52:39.:52:44.

just take this for granted. It is natural that these groups and

:52:44.:52:53.

meetings happen to get together. It is no different and Chipping Norton

:52:53.:52:59.

than anywhere else. I am a resident and have been here for 13 years and

:52:59.:53:08.

I am proud to be a resident. I think a lot of people referred to in the

:53:08.:53:13.

book are not residents. There is a serious point here, that Chipping

:53:13.:53:17.

Norton is insulated from the real world. It says, every are any other

:53:17.:53:23.

bad tones, then the blame must lie with Chipping Norton. People are out

:53:23.:53:31.

of touch and Chipping Norton. Our highest rate is fighting exactly the

:53:31.:53:36.

same battle as every other high Street is fighting. We are in

:53:36.:53:46.

exactly the same situation. Really, you are facing the same problems as

:53:46.:53:50.

the industrial towns of the North? Yes, even the book recognises that.

:53:50.:53:55.

We are doing our best to fight back. We are just an ordinary market

:53:55.:54:02.

town. Come and have a look and make up your own mind.

:54:02.:54:07.

Now, our regular round—up of the political week in the South in 60

:54:07.:54:12.

seconds. And this week, it is rubbish. The largest soil testing

:54:12.:54:24.

plan in the world opened in Oxfordshire. Holes in the road have

:54:24.:54:35.

led to the huge rise in compensation pay—outs. West Sussex have had to

:54:35.:54:41.

deal with 450 claims at a cost of nearly £200,000. Sussex police had

:54:41.:55:01.

to also step in, when they want one MP of harassment. On Twitter,

:55:01.:55:17.

Twitter led to a road regarding the government reshuffle. And fly

:55:17.:55:27.

tipping policy has led to up to ten times the amount of previous

:55:27.:55:34.

convictions. I think the leaders of the party have to make the policies

:55:34.:55:39.

that the need to. I think we all accept that. Getting ready for the

:55:39.:55:47.

election? It is obviously a very difficult decision. It is

:55:47.:55:51.

particularly difficult in coalition, friendly Prime Minister as less

:55:51.:56:00.

options than if he had the majority. So, it was difficult for those who

:56:00.:56:08.

where released. I think some of them have done nothing wrong. It is

:56:08.:56:16.

difficult. But that has always been the way in politics. The Prime

:56:16.:56:21.

Minister needs to refresh the look and give opportunities to other

:56:21.:56:27.

people. A change of direction for the Labour Party? It is a change of

:56:27.:56:33.

line—up, but when you see who's coming into the shadow cabinet, you

:56:33.:56:41.

cannot really say some lot about and some lot are in. Is it just the

:56:41.:56:50.

newspapers? It is partly that. It is a line—up of good talent. It will be

:56:50.:56:56.

the for the next general election and beyond and it is quite clear

:56:56.:57:00.

that we know when the general election is going to be, so you have

:57:00.:57:04.

to get your best team in place for the election and make it work and

:57:04.:57:09.

that is what the reshuffle has done, as far as the opposition is

:57:09.:57:19.

concerned. Available for selection from 2015, both of you? I remember

:57:19.:57:28.

you saying that you were unlikely to get anywhere because you were white

:57:28.:57:39.

and new word meal! I enjoy working with them and I was very relaxed

:57:39.:57:45.

about the reshuffle. It is a question of, if you are at the

:57:45.:57:50.

receiving end of a reshuffle, you obviously quite often have not done

:57:50.:57:55.

anything wrong and feel bad about it. Equally surprised that those who

:57:55.:58:03.

have been promoted. It is an arrangement without a job

:58:03.:58:07.

description. It is not the perfect way to do it, but

:58:07.:58:09.

and these tactics were plain wrong. That is all we have time for. Back

:58:09.:58:12.

to Andrew. That is all we have time for. Back

:58:12.:58:23.

ministerial team this week with That is all we have time for. Back

:58:23.:58:26.

commentators calling it the purge of the Blairites, but one poor lamb who

:58:26.:58:31.

fell victim to this perch was Diane Abbott, not somebody who worshipped

:58:31.:58:36.

at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on the backbenches means she can pursue

:58:36.:58:40.

other interests such as attending the Cheltenham literary Festival,

:58:40.:58:47.

and where she joins us now. Welcome. Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

:58:47.:58:51.

think the thing that did it for Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

:58:51.:58:58.

was me coming out on Syria. This was Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He

:58:58.:59:05.

a purge of the Blairites, how did you become collateral damage? I

:59:05.:59:09.

a purge of the Blairites, how did no idea but the fact that I was

:59:09.:59:11.

a purge of the Blairites, how did one member of the front bench to go

:59:11.:59:14.

public about my concerns on Syria probably tipped my enemies in the

:59:14.:59:21.

party machinery over the edge. But he went your way on Syria, in the

:59:21.:59:25.

end he agreed with your line on Syria so why would that be for

:59:25.:59:33.

dismissal? I agree with you - you're fired. Because I actually spoke

:59:33.:59:36.

dismissal? I agree with you - you're and it was the fact that I spoke up,

:59:36.:59:39.

which was like a pebble falling and it was the fact that I spoke up,

:59:39.:59:48.

forest or something. I am glad I spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like

:59:48.:59:55.

people around them than who are outspoken, who speak their minds? I

:59:55.:00:12.

think he's convinced he needs people who read from the scripts. People

:00:12.:00:14.

increasingly upset that even though who read from the scripts. People

:00:14.:00:21.

I was speaking party policy, I was reading from the script. Since Mr

:00:21.:00:27.

Miliband bid you farewell, you've said he's doing his best. Is his

:00:27.:00:33.

best good enough? I am sure it will be. I've always said the Labour

:00:33.:00:38.

Party chose the right Miliband. be. I've always said the Labour

:00:38.:00:43.

will remain loyal to him on the backbenches. You're going to be

:00:43.:00:49.

loyal? However, I want to join in the debate. You're going to be

:00:49.:00:54.

loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal both in public and private when others

:00:54.:00:58.

were bitching about him behind the from the backbenches, I hope to

:00:58.:01:05.

were bitching about him behind the involved in the debate particularly

:01:05.:01:07.

around nick policy. Et's see how loyal you are. You must be happy

:01:07.:01:11.

with all this new tough talk on welfare and free schools? Well,

:01:11.:01:20.

with all this new tough talk on think both Rachel and Tristram are

:01:20.:01:24.

very talented. We're going to have to see how this all plays out. The

:01:24.:01:28.

issue of free schools, they are to see how this all plays out. The

:01:28.:01:32.

thing. But diminishing the role to see how this all plays out. The

:01:32.:01:34.

local authorities is another. There need strong local authorities. I'm

:01:34.:01:42.

local authorities is another. There sure Tristram will be aware of that.

:01:42.:01:44.

As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel knows some of the cuts the Tories

:01:44.:01:50.

have made have been counter prod ublingtive in -- productive in terms

:01:50.:01:56.

of spending. You wouldn't call that your full-hearted endorsement, would

:01:56.:01:57.

you? What are you on, and lieu? your full-hearted endorsement, would

:01:57.:02:05.

haven't seen the detail of Rachel's new position. You have to wait and

:02:05.:02:10.

see the detail. It is in the papers. You haven't stopped reading the

:02:10.:02:15.

papers. It was the Observer. When will you announce you're running for

:02:15.:02:20.

Mayor of London? I have no plans to announce that I'm running for Mayor

:02:20.:02:25.

Mayor of London? I have no plans to of London. No plans. That's what

:02:25.:02:25.

Michael his I will Tyne used to of London. No plans. That's what

:02:25.:02:30.

me. He had no plans to run against Margaret Thatcher. Are these the

:02:30.:02:34.

same kind of plans you have? I know. No, no. I have no plans. You know

:02:34.:02:41.

going for it. Everybody knows you're going for it. Just fess up to your

:02:41.:02:51.

old mate! ! I have no plans to run. If you did run, who would be, what

:02:51.:02:57.

would be your biggest threat other than yourself? I think there's a lot

:02:57.:03:07.

of very talented candidates, David They are all talented. I would have

:03:07.:03:15.

to weigh up the field. What do you think your chances would be of

:03:16.:03:20.

getting the taxi drivers' vote? Well, you know, Andrew, some of

:03:20.:03:27.

getting the taxi drivers' vote? most loyal viewers of This Week

:03:27.:03:31.

getting the taxi drivers' vote? were taxi drivers and their wives.

:03:31.:03:34.

I'm not frightened of reaching out to middle England. You will find if

:03:34.:03:39.

you walk around London sub usual ya, they all know me and they all love

:03:39.:03:45.

This Week. Love This Week. I thought you were going to say they all love

:03:45.:03:50.

you. One person who loves you, is Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy

:03:50.:03:54.

chappie on Thursday night. You can't see it but you can hear. This is

:03:54.:04:00.

what he said. I was disappointed for her. She had decided to leave this

:04:00.:04:07.

something else in politics. She wanted to do something serious.

:04:07.:04:11.

something else in politics. She had taken what appeared to be a

:04:11.:04:13.

something else in politics. She position but taken it extremely

:04:13.:04:15.

serious and was committed to the issues. I'm quite disappointed for

:04:15.:04:23.

her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a thing. You just mentioned about

:04:23.:04:28.

London mayor, did Diane not ask thing. You just mentioned about

:04:28.:04:37.

Someone who's an eminent person thing. You just mentioned about

:04:37.:04:39.

this programme, I don't know how he could do that. I think Michael's

:04:39.:04:43.

missing you. Are you free this Thursday night? Make him a happy

:04:43.:04:50.

man, come back to the fold. I think I may be free this Thursday night.

:04:50.:04:54.

So, if he'll have me, I'll be there. My people will speak to your people.

:04:55.:04:59.

We'll get it sorted out. Diane, watch that big vase behind you,

:04:59.:05:04.

you're not insured for. That thanks Does she have a chance of being

:05:04.:05:10.

Mayor of London? She's very well known as Michael pointed out. That

:05:10.:05:12.

is important. People who are outside known as Michael pointed out. That

:05:12.:05:19.

the party fold have traditionally done well in the mayoral election.

:05:19.:05:21.

The job of being a London mayor done well in the mayoral election.

:05:21.:05:26.

running an economy the size of a nation. It is a very serious job.

:05:26.:05:30.

There may be problems with her running? That was a transparent

:05:30.:05:38.

There may be problems with her for it. She's potentially a very

:05:38.:05:42.

compelling Coll ticks. People have left-winger but she's quite tough

:05:42.:05:52.

and conservative. Michael Gove said he had fallen in love with Diane

:05:52.:05:59.

which That's one vote he has. What do you think? I thing about Diane

:05:59.:06:06.

Abbott is she has a fantastic way of connecting. She has a really good

:06:06.:06:10.

way of connecting wi people. She would be a very strong candidate in

:06:10.:06:16.

candidate. It will probably be a Labour win next time. Depends, if

:06:16.:06:23.

Labour wins the 2015 election it may be more difficult. There's a danger

:06:23.:06:28.

for Labour that Diane is the big personality liked by the party

:06:28.:06:30.

primary but isn't necessarily a personality liked by the party

:06:30.:06:37.

in come the London general election? That's true. London is traditionally

:06:37.:06:42.

a Labour city. But Boris managed to win as an outsider. There are big

:06:42.:06:48.

dangers for Labour with that. I think, as I said before, somebody

:06:48.:06:52.

who seems a bit independent from their own party machinery tend to do

:06:52.:06:59.

We've only had mayors so far that were independent? Indeed. And how

:06:59.:07:05.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. well Ken Livingstone did last time.

:07:05.:07:09.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. He was and is much more left-wing

:07:09.:07:11.

than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't He was and is much more left-wing

:07:11.:07:20.

stray on Syria, it was immigration. Why was Jeremy brown replaced by

:07:20.:07:29.

This is very much to do with Clegg deciding he has to go back to those

:07:29.:07:33.

people who abandoned the Liberal Democrats the day they went into

:07:33.:07:37.

coalition with the Conservatives really, and convince them there

:07:37.:07:42.

coalition with the Conservatives some holy areas of policy, sacred

:07:42.:07:46.

areas which they will defend. That includes civil liberties. In the

:07:46.:07:48.

Home Office, that incident with includes civil liberties. In the

:07:48.:07:51.

immigration vans went down very badly across the whole nation. Went

:07:52.:07:57.

down particularly badly with Liberal Democrats and voters. In the Home

:07:58.:08:02.

somebody there to put a shield on purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg

:08:02.:08:12.

has won the argument against the left, Vince Cable on the economy,

:08:12.:08:17.

away day in July, briefings say DrCable's been put in his box. He's

:08:17.:08:22.

won the argument on economic policy against the left. When it comes

:08:22.:08:26.

won the argument on economic policy the touchstone issue in the Home

:08:26.:08:28.

Office, he wants to shore up that vote on the left. And please The

:08:28.:08:32.

Guardian. This is important for something else going on which is

:08:32.:08:38.

that Nick Clegg has to keep his parliamentary party happy. That

:08:38.:08:43.

involves giving them ministerial jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats

:08:43.:08:47.

losing their jobs, Michael Moore, because vacancies have to be created

:08:47.:08:58.

for number people to come in. By Liberal Democrat MPs will have been

:08:59.:09:06.

on the payroll. It is effective party management. I want to move on

:09:06.:09:12.

to press regulation. Brian Leveson's famous report, appeared before the

:09:12.:09:14.

parliamentary select committee. famous report, appeared before the

:09:14.:09:19.

will run you a clip from Connor politicians got involved in this. We

:09:19.:09:31.

moved away from the press 300 years ago. The centr commitment is Lord

:09:31.:09:36.

Leveson wanted a system the press self-regulation. This is state

:09:36.:09:44.

involvement which I worry about profoundly. He sits on the media

:09:44.:09:50.

interviews and investigations into the media. Chris Huhne said earlier

:09:50.:09:55.

he thought all the newspapers would sign up to the Government-backed

:09:55.:10:00.

Royal Charter. I think he's totally should. But he did say they would. I

:10:00.:10:07.

think he's wrong. They won't sign up. All the mood music when that

:10:07.:10:12.

Royal Charter was agreed on Friday was they would not sign up. It is

:10:12.:10:19.

Maria Miller, is essentially saying to the press industry, if you don't

:10:19.:10:21.

sign up, the Royal charter will to the press industry, if you don't

:10:21.:10:24.

ahead. I cannot control the Labour to the press industry, if you don't

:10:24.:10:30.

industry is wind the clock back to the press industry, if you don't

:10:30.:10:32.

what they are calling the Puttnam stage. That was earlier this year,

:10:32.:10:40.

Lord Puttnam was tack amendments which would introduce statutory

:10:40.:10:44.

regulation. Maria Miller says you statutory legislation but if you

:10:44.:10:54.

don't sign up to this, it will be a lot worse. Will that work? Playing

:10:54.:11:01.

the good cop, bad cop routine? Will that pressurise everyone to sign up.

:11:01.:11:05.

Lots of people are saying this will be a club with no members. It won't

:11:05.:11:10.

work. As Nick and I broke the story last week that the Government was

:11:10.:11:16.

going to reject the newspaper-backed one, I'm certain that the newspapers

:11:16.:11:20.

now, most of them maybe, not all, but most, will go the legal route

:11:21.:11:28.

and to judicial review on what the Government's proposing and will

:11:28.:11:32.

and to judicial review on what the it to strains Bowring where freedom

:11:32.:11:33.

of the press is enshrined. They it to strains Bowring where freedom

:11:33.:11:41.

fight this? There is enough fury amongst Fleet Street to result in

:11:41.:11:44.

that. The big political question going forward is which of the party

:11:44.:11:49.

leaders does the press blame the most for the emergence of press

:11:49.:11:52.

regulation? The Tories are very confident they'll blame Ed Miliband

:11:52.:11:58.

the most. They'll target him before 2015. David Cameron gave us Brian

:11:58.:12:03.

Leveson. You appoint a judge who shouldn't be surprised with what you

:12:03.:12:11.

got in the Leveson report? I big chunk of press will look at David

:12:11.:12:15.

Cameron saying, you were the guy who intended what will happen. If he had

:12:15.:12:29.

have appointed Brian Leveson. If they face more punitive fines over

:12:29.:12:32.

Labour ale cases they take that they face more punitive fines over

:12:32.:12:37.

Europe. The Daily Mail and the tallest presumably will have to

:12:37.:12:44.

suspend their campaign of Britain to leave the European Convention of

:12:44.:12:50.

suspend that. We must never come out Churchill was behind it. He was

:12:50.:12:59.

indeed. But it is actually a major constitutional issue whether you

:12:59.:13:00.

regulate the press or not. There was constitutional issue whether you

:13:00.:13:05.

a lot of ill feeling that this Marie ya miller statement was snubbing out

:13:05.:13:11.

on Friday afternoon. Somebody said freedom of the press too important

:13:11.:13:16.

to sneak out on afully afternoon. The whole subject should be treated

:13:16.:13:20.

with respect. We've run out of time. I'll be back next Sunday with the

:13:21.:13:27.

Communities Secretary Eric Pickles at our usual time of 11.00am. If

:13:27.:13:37.

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