20/10/2013 Sunday Politics South


20/10/2013

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Good morning and welcome to The Sunday Politics. Alex Salmond says a

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vote for Scottish independence would be an act of national self belief.

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His deputy joins us live from the SNP conference in Perth. Is

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Whitehall meddling too much in modern affairs? The Communities

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Secretary, Eric Pickles, joins me for The Sunday Interview. Senior

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coppers will be answering questions this

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Teachers were on strike across the region this week. Are they

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London, does the London assembly have one arm tied behind its back?

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All of that to come. And the Home Office minister sacked by Nick

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Clegg, who says his party is like a wonky shopping trolley, which keeps

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veering off to the left. He will join us live at noon. With me to

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unpack all of this, Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Iain Martin. They will be

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tweeting throughout the programme, using hashtag #bbcsp. It is the last

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day of the Scottish national party conference in Perth. We have

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discovered that Alex Salmond has been on the same diet as Beyonce.

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The SNP leader compared his attempts to lose weight with the campaign for

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independence - lots achieved so far, 20 more to do. In a moment, I will

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be joined by the deputy leader of the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon. First

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they report on the independence campaign. September 18 2014, the

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date of destiny for Scotland, the day when these campaigners hope its

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people will decide to vote yes for independence. In a recent poll, only

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14% said they knew enough to vote either way. That is unlikely to

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change any time soon. I think the Scottish people will be going to the

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polls next year still not knowing an awful lot of stuff which is

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important, because the outcome, in terms of taxation, debt, exactly

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what will happen to the allocation of assets between the two countries,

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will come about as a result of negotiation between a Scottish

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government and the UK Government. That is not stuff which will be

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known year. At the moment, polls suggest Scotland will decide to

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remain within the UK. A recent survey found that 44% of those

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questioned planned to vote no, 5% yes. But interestingly, the

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undecideds were at 31%, suggesting that Alex Salmond's task might be

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tough but not impossible. There are a number of reasons which make a

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vanilla campaign a good idea. It does not put off cautious voters, it

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allows for people to imagine their own version of what independence

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will be like, and crucially, it allows for the yes campaign to take

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advantage of any mistakes by the no campaign. In other words, the yes

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campaign are not out there with big ideas, they are just waiting for the

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no campaign to trip up. What we do know is that whatever happens next

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September, Scotland will be getting more power. From 2016, a separate

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income tax regime will come into force, giving the Scottish

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Parliament control over billions of pounds of revenue. What we do not

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know yet is how the alternative would pan out. There are issues

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which would be raised by independence, issues about how the

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national debt is allocated, what the currency will look like, how an

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independent Scotland would balance the books, because it would have a

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bigger job to do, even down the Whitehall government has to do.

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Those are really big issues, which a Scottish government would have to

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face, on top of whatever negotiation it had to have with the UK

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Government. The Scottish government's White Paper on

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independence, two to be published within weeks, should fill in some of

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the banks. But how Scotland votes in September may yet be determined by

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what it feels rather than what it knows. And joining me from Perth is

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Scotland's Deputy First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon. Nicola Sturgeon, we

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meet again! Hello, Andrew. Former leader of the SNP Gordon Wilson

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said, if this referendum fails, it will fail on the basis that people

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put their British identity ahead of their Scottish identity, so we have

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got to attack on the British identity - what does he mean? Gordon

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Wilson is a very respected, much loved former leader of the SNP. My

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view is that I do not think the independence referendum is really

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about identity. I am secure and proud of my Scottish identity, but

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this is a decision about where power best lies. Do decision-making powers

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best lie here in Scotland, with a government which is directly

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accountable to the people of Scotland, or does it best lie in

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Westminster, with governments which, very often, people in Scotland do

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not vote for? That is the issue at the heart of the campaign. Let me

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just clarify, you do not agree with him, that you need to go on the

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attack with regard to the British identity of Scottish people? No I

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do not think we are required to attack British identity. It is

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absolutely compatible for somebody to feel a sense of British identity

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but still support Scottish independence, because Scottish

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independence is about a transfer of power. It is about good government,

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accountable government, ensuring that decisions are taking here in

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Scotland, by people who have got the biggest stake in getting those

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decisions right. I represent a constituency in the south side of

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Glasgow, and if you speak to many people in my constituency, if you

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ask them their national identity, many of them would say Irish,

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Pakistani, Indian, Polish, and many of them will vote yes next year

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because they understand the issue at stake, which is the issue of where

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decisions are best taken. It looks like you are changing tack ex-, you

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have realised the softly softly approach, of saying that actually,

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nothing much will change, we will still have the Queen, the currency,

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and all the rest of it, is moving over towards voting for a left-wing

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future for Scotland... Well, I know that what we are doing is pointing

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out is pointing out the choice between two futures. If we vote yes,

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we take our own future into our own hands. We make sure that for ever

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after, we have governments which will be in demented policies which

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we have voted for. If we do not become independent, then we continue

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to run the risk of having governments not only that we do not

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vote for, but often, that Scotland rejects. We are seeing the

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dismantling of our system of social security. There are politicians in

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all of the UK parties who are itching to cut Scotland's share of

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spending. So Scotland faces a choice of two futures, and it is right to

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point out the positive consequences of voting yes, but also the

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consequences of voting no. But you are promising to reverse benefit

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cuts and increase the minimum wage. You would renationalise the Royal

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Mail, though how you would do that nobody knows. You are promising to

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cut energy bills. These are the kind of promises that parties make in a

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general election campaign, not in a once in 300 years extra stench or

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choice. Is the future of Scotland really going to be decided on the

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size of the minimum wage? -- existential choice. A yes vote would

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be about bringing decision-making powers home, but we are also setting

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out some of the things an SNP government would do, if elected A

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decision on what the first government of an independent

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Scotland would be would not be taken in the referendum, that decision

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would be taken in the 2016 election. And all of the parties will put

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forward their offers to the electorate. We are setting out some

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of the things which we think it is important to be prioritised. These

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are things which have a lot of support in Scotland. We see the pain

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being felt by people because of the rising cost of energy bills, there

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is widespread opposition to some of the welfare cuts. So, we are setting

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out the options which are open to Scotland, but only open to Scotland

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if we have the powers of independence. Given that you seem to

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be promising aid permanent socialist near Varna, if Scotland is

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independent, if you are right of centre in Scotland, and I understand

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that is a minority pursuit where you are, but it would be a big mistake

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to vote for independence, in that case, wouldn't it? No, because the

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whole point of independence is that people get the country they want,

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and the government a vote for. So, right of centre people should not

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vote for independence? No, because people who are of that political

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persuasion in Scotland get the opportunity to vote for parties

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which represent that persuasion and if they can persuade a majority to

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vote likewise, then they will get a government which reflects that. That

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is the essence of independence. Right now, we have a Westminster

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government which most people in Scotland rejected at the last

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general election. That is hardly democratic. It is right and proper

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that the SNP, as the current government, points out the

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opportunities that would be opening up. Can I just clarify one thing,

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when we spoke on The Daily Politics earlier last week, you made it clear

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to me that Alex Salmond, we know he wants to debate with David Cameron,

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but you made it clear to me that he would debate with Alistair Darling

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as well, and Mr Carmichael... He made it clear yesterday. Well, he

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said to the BBC this morning that he would only debate with these people

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after he had had a debate with Mr Cameron, so who is right? I was

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making the point last week, and Alex Salmond was making it yesterday and

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this morning - let's have that agreement by David Cameron to come

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and debate with Alex Salmond, and then Alex Salmond, just like me

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will debate with allcomers. So if he does not get the David Cameron

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debate, then he will not do the others, is that right? Let's focus

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on is wading David Cameron to do the right thing. So, in other words he

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will not debate, yes or no? Members of the SNP government... We know

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that, but what about Alex Salmond? He said yesterday, we will debate

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with all sorts of people, including the people you have spoken about,

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but David Cameron should not be let off the hook just putting aside the

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independence issue, energy prices are now even playing into the SNP,

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so every political party has to do something about energy prices. Yes,

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it is clearly it is interesting is the difference between the SNP and

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the Labour approach. Ed Miliband electrified the party conference

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season when he said he would freeze energy prices for 20 months,

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seemingly having an amazing control over the energy market, where we

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know that essentially what pushes prices up the wholesale prices on

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world market. What Nicola Sturgeon is talking about is actually saying,

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this amount is added to your bills for green levies, and we are going

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to take them off your bills and they will be paid out of general taxation

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in an independent Scotland. That is a credible government, making a

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credible case, very different to what Labour is saying, although

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playing to the same agenda. So, Labour has got a populist policy,

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the SNP has also got a populist policy, the one group of people that

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do not have a decent response to this is the coalition? Exactly. What

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the SNP also have is a magic money pot, so that speech yesterday, you

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are right, it was very left wing, social democratic, but there was

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none of the icing like Labour has been talking about, with fiscal

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responsibility. I think that is the difference between the two. We know

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what the Tories would really like to do, all of these green levies which

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were put on our bills in the good times, when they were going to be

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the greenest party ever, the Tories would like to say, let's just wipe

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out some of them, put the rest on to some general government spending,

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but they have a problem, which is in the Department of Energy and Climate

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Change. Not only that, they really are stuck now. But there is

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something in the free schools debate this morning, the parties are now

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determined to send a message to their potential voters at the next

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election, that they are trying to fight their coalition partners. Do

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not expected any change in coalition policy or free schools policy before

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the election, but we can expect to hear the parties try to pretend that

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they are taking on their coalition partners. Mr Clegg has said, we

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would put this free schools policy into our manifesto, so is it not

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possible that the Tories will say, if you give us an overall majority,

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we will cut your electricity bill because we will get rid of these

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green levies? I think that is entirely possible. The Tories know

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that they are stuck on this, they do not have a response to Ed Miliband.

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How much should ministers in Whitehall medal in local decisions

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across England? In opposition, David Cameron said he wanted a fundamental

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shift of power from Whitehall to local people. He said, when one size

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fits all solution is... Eric Pickles described it as "an

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historic shift of power". But the Communitites and Local Government

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Secretary can't stop meddling. In the past few months Mr Pickles has

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tried to ban councils from using CCTV cameras and "spy cars" to fine

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motorists... Told councils how to act quicker to shut down illegal

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travellers' sites... Criticised councils who want to raise council

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tax... Insisted councils release land to residents hoping to build

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their own property... And stated new homes should have a special built in

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bin storage section. It seems not a week goes by without a policy

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announcement from the hyper active Mr Pickles. So is the government

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still committed to localism, or is it all about centralism now?

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And Communities Secretary Eric Pickles joins me now for the Sunday

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Interview. Welcome. Nice to be here. You said

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in July you were going to give town halls the power to wreak their local

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magic. So why issue diktats from Westminster? It is not about giving

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power to local councils, it is going beyond that to local people. If

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local councils refuse to open up their books, we have to go straight

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to local people. You have attacked councillors using so-called spy

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cameras to enforce parking rules. Why is that your business? Because

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there is an injustice taking place. You cannot use fines to raise money

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and that is plainly happening. If you get yourself a ticket from a

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CCTV, it could be days or weeks before that lands on your doorstep

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and you have virtually no possibility to be able to defend

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yourself. But just leave it to people to vote out the council then.

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We are trying to enforce the law and it clearly states that you cannot

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use parking fines in order to fund general rate. So why are you not

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taking them to court if they are breaking the law? There have been a

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number of court cases taken by local residents. I am there to stand by

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local residents. Your even trying to micromanage, allowing motorist s to

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park for 15 minutes in local high street. Why is that your business?

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I'm trying to ensure that local authorities understand the

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importance of the town centre. If you look at all opinion polls, right

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now there is a five-minute leeway but there are many cases of people

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being jumped on by parking officials for quite trivial things. It is

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about saying, surely I can go and get a pint of milk. But a party that

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dines out on localism, that is a matter for local people, not the men

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in Whitehall. I have to be on the side of local people. That person

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who wants to go and get a pint of milk. Ultimately it is a matter for

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them. It is a matter for the council. But a little bit of

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criticism is not a bad thing. You have now declared war on the wheelie

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bin and suggested that new homes should have built in storage

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sections. You just cannot help meddling! I suppose that is

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possible. You are a meddler! I am in charge of building regulations and

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planning. So I may have some responsibility there. Another one,

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interfering in local planning decisions. A couple of places, you

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ruled in favour of developers. They want to build over 200 houses

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against the wishes of the parish and district councils. The local MP said

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the Secretary of State's decision runs roughshod over any concept of

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localism. Now I have to be a blushing violet because of course

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this is still potentially subject to judicial review. I have to act

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properly. And Apple went is entitled to justice. -- an applicant. A local

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authority has a duty to ensure that is adequate housing for people in

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their area. This was not a decision that I took as a personal decision,

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it was on the advice of an inspector. But you contradict what

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David Cameron himself said in 2 12, he spoke about a vision where we

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give communities much more say and local control. People in villages

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fear big housing estates being plonked from above. You have just

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done exactly that. After a proper quasi judicial enquiry. What we have

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is planning framework which local people can decide where it goes But

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they cannot say, nothing here. They have to have a five-year housing

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supply. Previous to this government decided exactly where houses would

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go, now local people can take the lead. Anna Silbury said because of

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the way your department rules, local authorities now have no alternative

:22:27.:22:31.

but to agree development on green belt land. I do not accept that I

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think around Nottingham there are particular problems with regards to

:22:42.:22:49.

the green belt. The matter has been referred back.

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the green belt. The matter has been want to see development on the green

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belt but on Brownfield site. We want to see underused land. But you have

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to remember why we have the green belt. Not

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to remember why we have the green nice, it is their to prevent

:23:14.:23:14.

conurbations bumping into one another. Your

:23:15.:23:18.

conurbations bumping into one is vocal about the need to deal

:23:19.:23:24.

what he calls the historic under provision of housing. Shelter says

:23:25.:23:24.

we need 250,000 new homes per year. provision of housing. Shelter says

:23:25.:23:36.

Houston statistics are getting there, but nowhere near that. -

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housing. You cannot there, but nowhere near that. -

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localism agenda as well as meeting housing demand. I do not accept

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that. We inherited a position where the lowest level of building since

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the 1920s was in place. But it has steadily improved. It does take a

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while. You cannot have a localism agenda where people call the shots

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on housing as well as meeting the housing demand. People have a duty

:24:08.:24:14.

to ensure that future generations have somewhere to live. You cannot

:24:15.:24:19.

pull up the drawbridge. There is nothing incompatible between that

:24:20.:24:26.

and localism. Because someone has to be the voice of those people who are

:24:27.:24:31.

going to live there and to make sure there is the proper amount. Plans

:24:32.:24:38.

now exist for more than 150,000 homes to be built on protected land,

:24:39.:24:44.

including the green belt. That will mean riding over local concerns

:24:45.:24:49.

Each application will be taken on its own merits. To suggest that

:24:50.:24:53.

there is an assault on the green belt is as far from the truth as you

:24:54.:24:58.

can imagine. Should Andrew Mitchell get his job back if the years

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exonerated? I would be honoured to sit with Andrew Mitchell in the

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Cabinet. I have always believed his version. But it is a matter for the

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Prime Minister who he has in government. He would have no problem

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in seeing him back in Cabinet? Absolutely not. Your mother answered

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Vulcan junior minister Nick balls said about the Royal Charter for the

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press, there's nothing we have done that troubles me as much as this. Is

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that your view? It is not. I accept the compromise agreement put

:25:37.:25:42.

together. If the press want to have an additional protection that the

:25:43.:25:48.

Royal Charter offers, then they can move into the system. But if they

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want to continue independently that is acceptable to me. But you

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previously echoed Thomas Jefferson, you said for a free society to

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operate the river of a free press has to flow without restriction

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That is what I said at the time We had to find a compromise. And that

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seems to me to be a better compromise. Let me just show you

:26:19.:26:26.

this little montage of pictures that we have. I could not be happier

:26:27.:26:38.

Then you are in the Desert and there you are in San Francisco. Then you

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are in the casino. That is my personal favourite. These students

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took a cardboard cutout of you and took it round the world with them.

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Did you ever think you would become a student icon? I always felt

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secretly that that might happen one day. But it came earlier in my

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career than I thought! Why would they do that? I think they thought I

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could do with a bit of an airing! I went to Norfolk earlier, but that

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looks better. Thank you. On Wednesday senior police folk

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including chief constables, will be questioned by MPs about what's

:27:40.:27:44.

become known as Plebgate. That's the incident in Downing Street last year

:27:45.:27:47.

which led to the resignation of the government chief whip Andrew

:27:48.:27:49.

Mitchell. Last week the Independent Police Complaints Commission

:27:50.:27:51.

questioned the "honesty and integrity" of police officers who

:27:52.:27:56.

met Mr Mitchell following the row. So do scandals like this affect

:27:57.:27:59.

public trust in the police? Here's Adam Fleming.

:28:00.:28:06.

It's a story of politics, the police, and CCTV. No, not Andrew

:28:07.:28:12.

Mitchell, but an MP's researcher called Alex Bryce and his partner

:28:13.:28:18.

Iain Feis. It started on a summer night in

:28:19.:28:22.

2011. They'd been in Parliament After a few words with a police

:28:23.:28:26.

officer, Ian was wrestled to the ground. Alex came to have a look and

:28:27.:28:31.

the same thing happened to him. Both were arrested and charged. These

:28:32.:28:35.

pictures emerged on day one of their trial. A trial that was halted

:28:36.:28:40.

because the police version of events just didn't match the footage. A lot

:28:41.:28:49.

of people with incidence like this which we experienced, people think

:28:50.:28:55.

there is no smoke without fire. So when we said we did nothing wrong,

:28:56.:28:59.

people would think police just would not do that. There is always that

:29:00.:29:05.

underlying view that some people have. I think that has been

:29:06.:29:09.

challenged and people who know us believe that. This year the Met

:29:10.:29:13.

apologised and paid compensation. And it's led to an unlikely sort of

:29:14.:29:20.

friendship. When the truth came out about the Andrew Mitchell story I

:29:21.:29:24.

actually sent him an e-mail to congratulate him about the truth

:29:25.:29:30.

coming out. He did send a reply acknowledging that. So where are we

:29:31.:29:33.

with THAT saga? Remember last September? Andrew Mitchell had a row

:29:34.:29:37.

with police at the gates of Downing Street about his bike. He lost his

:29:38.:29:40.

job as chief whip after accusations he called the officers plebs. That,

:29:41.:29:47.

he's always denied. This week the police watchdog the IPCC suggested

:29:48.:29:50.

that three officers may have lied about a meeting with him at the

:29:51.:29:56.

height of the scandal. Add that to the charge sheet of cases that

:29:57.:29:58.

haven't exactly flattered the police. Like the revelation of a

:29:59.:30:05.

cover up over Hillsborough. The prosecution of an officer from the

:30:06.:30:08.

Met over the death of Ian Tomlinson during protests in 2009. Along with

:30:09.:30:13.

news that undercover officers were told to smear the family of Stephen

:30:14.:30:19.

Lawrence. During Thursday's protest by teachers in Westminster the

:30:20.:30:21.

police operation was really, really relaxed. And recent scandals have

:30:22.:30:27.

done nothing to affect society's view of the boys and girls in blue -

:30:28.:30:31.

or should I say hi-vis. About 6 % of the public say they trust the

:30:32.:30:39.

police. And that's not budged since pollsters started measuring it 0

:30:40.:30:40.

years ago. Of course, in Britain, crime is

:30:41.:30:52.

down, so the perception might be that the police is doing a good

:30:53.:30:58.

job. And the rank-and-file recently seamed pretty chipper at this awards

:30:59.:31:02.

ceremony. Is it a good time to be a police officer? It is a good time.

:31:03.:31:07.

Despite all of the headlines? Still a good time. But speak to officers

:31:08.:31:12.

privately, and they say Plebgate is affecting how the public see them.

:31:13.:31:17.

Some of them also think politicians, the Tories especially,

:31:18.:31:21.

are enjoying that a little too much. Adam Fleming reporting there. Going

:31:22.:31:26.

head-to-head on this issue of trust in the police, a Sunday Mirror

:31:27.:31:34.

columnist and Peter Kirkham, former chief inspector. Peter Kirkham, let

:31:35.:31:42.

me come to you first. Plebgate, the cover-ups over John Charles De

:31:43.:31:48.

menace, the death of Ian Tomlinson, the industrial deception over

:31:49.:31:52.

Hillsborough, why is the culture of deceit so prevalent in the police? I

:31:53.:31:56.

do not agree there is a cultural deceit. These are all individual

:31:57.:32:00.

incidents which raise individual issues. I would suggest that your

:32:01.:32:05.

short headline summarising each of them has taken the most negative

:32:06.:32:12.

view of it. How can you be positive about the police's behaviour over

:32:13.:32:17.

Hillsborough? It remains to be seen with the inquiry but we are probably

:32:18.:32:20.

talking about a handful of senior officers, dealing with the

:32:21.:32:26.

paperwork. Well over 100 testimonies being doctored by the police. Well,

:32:27.:32:34.

those testimonies were true to start with, so the officers have told the

:32:35.:32:38.

truth, and they have been changed for some reason. By the police. By

:32:39.:32:45.

the police all lawyers we have got this thing that the police conflates

:32:46.:32:49.

everything. There are 43 forces there is ACPO, there is the College

:32:50.:32:58.

Of Policing... People say it was a handful of police officers, it

:32:59.:33:02.

wasn't, it was six senior police officers who were alleged to have

:33:03.:33:07.

doctored 106 D4 statements. Even today we are hearing that more than

:33:08.:33:11.

1000 officers are yet to be spoken to about Hillsborough. -- 164. Do we

:33:12.:33:18.

pretend that Hillsborough, and some of these examples, are the exception

:33:19.:33:25.

rather than the rule? What is the evidence that this is now prevalent

:33:26.:33:30.

in our police? I think there is a lot of evidence, and Plebgate is

:33:31.:33:33.

probably the thing which has clinched it. The public want to

:33:34.:33:38.

know, how deep does this girl? The audacity of a group of policemen who

:33:39.:33:43.

think they can set up a Cabinet minister. Five of those who were

:33:44.:33:47.

arrested and bailed still have not been charged. One of those officers

:33:48.:33:50.

actually wrote an e-mail pretending to be a member of the public. I do

:33:51.:33:54.

not see what the problem is in prosecuting them for that. Taking

:33:55.:33:59.

Plebgate, there are loads of different bits of that incident

:34:00.:34:03.

There is the officers on duty in Downing Street, the issue of who

:34:04.:34:07.

leaked the story to the Sun, there are the officers who claim to have

:34:08.:34:11.

been there who would appear not to have been there, and then we have

:34:12.:34:14.

got the West Midlands meeting issue, which has sort of been

:34:15.:34:17.

resolved this week. There has been misconduct. But at a lower level.

:34:18.:34:26.

But it is the audacity of an organisation which thinks it can

:34:27.:34:31.

take on an elected minister and destroy him for their own political

:34:32.:34:34.

purposes, at a time when the Government are cutting please pay,

:34:35.:34:39.

when they are freezing their pensions and reducing their numbers.

:34:40.:34:42.

It looks very much to all of us the public, that the police are at war

:34:43.:34:46.

with the government, and they are going to do anything they can to

:34:47.:34:50.

discredit the Government. The police would have every reason to be at war

:34:51.:34:54.

with the Government, because there if there is a crisis of trust.. But

:34:55.:35:03.

it looks like they fitted up a Cabinet minister. That remains to be

:35:04.:35:10.

seen, it is being investigated. We know that those Birmingham officers,

:35:11.:35:15.

they totally misrepresented to, if not lied outright, about what was

:35:16.:35:19.

said. Again, that is a misrepresentation of what happened.

:35:20.:35:23.

If you actually go and look at what is said, it is plain from the

:35:24.:35:26.

context, they were saying, he has told us nothing new. But he had in

:35:27.:35:35.

the transcript, it said he hadn't. He would not admit he had used the

:35:36.:35:41.

word pleb. He apologised profusely, he said it would never happen again,

:35:42.:35:45.

he said many things that he had not said before. I agree, which is

:35:46.:35:52.

presumably... Thereon many police forces in this country, they have

:35:53.:35:55.

one of the toughest jobs in the land, they end up getting involved

:35:56.:36:01.

in almost anything which happens in society, and there are obviously a

:36:02.:36:07.

number of difficult examples, but what is the evidence that it is out

:36:08.:36:12.

of hand, other than just several bad apples? This bad apples argument, we

:36:13.:36:18.

have some amazing police people, thank God, but it is because of

:36:19.:36:21.

those that we have to root out the bad ones, the ones that are possibly

:36:22.:36:25.

corrupt. From where most of us are standing, the ones who are being

:36:26.:36:29.

accused of being corrupt, there does not seem to be any process to deal

:36:30.:36:33.

with these people. The trouble with a rotten apple is that it spreads.

:36:34.:36:37.

It is not fair on the good cops to be tainted by this, and I think the

:36:38.:36:41.

police force, as an institution... For all of us, we have to respect

:36:42.:36:48.

the police. There is a problem, is there not? People do worry that if

:36:49.:36:53.

you can fit up a Cabinet minister, you can fit up anybody... . I would

:36:54.:36:58.

disagree that anybody has proved that anybody has been fitted up. We

:36:59.:37:03.

are yet to hear what happened at the gates of Downing Street. But what we

:37:04.:37:07.

do know about the gates of Downing Street is that we were told by the

:37:08.:37:15.

police officers that passers-by had heard this incredible row, where

:37:16.:37:19.

Mitchell's file went was bullied. That is not true... . They did not

:37:20.:37:31.

use those words, actually. All right, but it is clear that the

:37:32.:37:37.

Police Federation jumped on this as a politically motivated campaign...

:37:38.:37:45.

I have always said that politics should be kept out of policing. The

:37:46.:37:49.

federation, they cannot go on strike, but this was to covertly

:37:50.:37:53.

political, so I criticise them for that. Do we need a better way of

:37:54.:38:00.

monitoring the police? We need a more competent and properly

:38:01.:38:03.

resourced Independent police commission. But if you look at those

:38:04.:38:09.

Bravery Awards, every police officer, every year, who acts with

:38:10.:38:16.

bravery... That is the police force we want to believe in. That is the

:38:17.:38:23.

police force you have got. We will leave it there. Coming up in just

:38:24.:38:27.

over 20 minutes, I will be speaking to former Lib Minister Jeremy

:38:28.:38:28.

Browne. And in The Week Ahead, As teachers strike over changes to

:38:29.:38:51.

their pensions and conditions of service are they being a responsible

:38:52.:38:54.

for making a fair protest over legitimate grievances?

:38:55.:39:08.

China week on the BBC. A lot about the need to export. Lots of imports

:39:09.:39:22.

in Southampton. Are we doing enough to look outside of our own country?

:39:23.:39:36.

This export market is so important. Is it a culture change or does it

:39:37.:39:40.

need changes in regulation? A little bit of both. Particularly in the

:39:41.:39:55.

luxury goods market. There is great potential for our manufacturers and

:39:56.:39:59.

innovators to grab a piece of that market. Is being part of the global

:40:00.:40:05.

market more important than the European Union? Not more important,

:40:06.:40:13.

but we have to be part of these markets as well. We are making

:40:14.:40:28.

hovercraft in Southhampton that we are selling to the Indian Navy.

:40:29.:40:33.

These growing opportunities are clear our future lies.

:40:34.:40:41.

The CDs of regional strikes right the NASUWT and the NUT has hit our

:40:42.:40:50.

region. Thousands of children got an unexpected day of class and parents

:40:51.:40:57.

had childcare problems. We are joined by the general

:40:58.:41:07.

secretary of the NUT in Portsmouth. Were teachers setting a good example

:41:08.:41:14.

to parents and pupils? It is a last resort and we regret the

:41:15.:41:20.

inconvenience. We have tried to talk to the government but they are not

:41:21.:41:25.

listening. Nurses and police officers do not own tools. Police

:41:26.:41:33.

officers are not allowed to. Nurses do. It does seem to be in the

:41:34.:41:42.

teachers culture. We have been under constant attack. We are not the most

:41:43.:41:46.

popular people in society as far as the government and the press is

:41:47.:41:51.

concerned. But a lot of parents support us. We have asked Michael

:41:52.:41:56.

Gove for the things that could have halted the action. They did halt the

:41:57.:42:02.

action in Wales because they opened up stocks. The did not happen here.

:42:03.:42:10.

This Michael Gove the vehicles to negotiate with? We asked for three

:42:11.:42:19.

things. The first thing was to stop the smashing up of pay and

:42:20.:42:22.

conditions across the country and to enter into proper docs and to have

:42:23.:42:33.

at financial review. Stopping the pay policy roll out. There was

:42:34.:42:39.

national pay across the country. That has been delegated to

:42:40.:42:46.

individual schools. Michael Gove would say this is catching up.

:42:47.:43:01.

Companies have national pay. Is this not really political what you are

:43:02.:43:08.

doing? It is opposition to the general policy. Education has always

:43:09.:43:24.

been a political football. At this point in time terms and conditions

:43:25.:43:32.

are being broken. Most teachers are more concerned about their

:43:33.:43:38.

workloads. We have not tried to make its political. I do not want to go

:43:39.:43:43.

on strike. I would rather be teaching. But if teachers do not

:43:44.:43:48.

make a stand we will not have a profession. During the week you said

:43:49.:43:54.

teachers should have done more to explain this. Michael Gove could

:43:55.:44:04.

have avoided this if he had had the discussions asked for. More could

:44:05.:44:10.

have been done to explain to parents. The unions want to win any

:44:11.:44:16.

of the things they are asking for it will be because parents support

:44:17.:44:23.

them. Who wants their child to be supported by a teacher who is

:44:24.:44:26.

exhausted and demoralised because of the way their pay is being handled?

:44:27.:44:32.

That there was too little effort to get out and talk to parents. I took

:44:33.:44:38.

a straw poll yesterday. I did not find anybody who has been invited

:44:39.:44:44.

into the school or talked to by teachers to explain what it is

:44:45.:44:48.

about. That is what I regret. It could have been an opportunity to

:44:49.:44:57.

get evens onside by the unions. Where do you think parents are with

:44:58.:45:04.

this? Parents feel strongly that they do not understand the objection

:45:05.:45:09.

to performance`related pay. We have rallied teachers doing fantastic

:45:10.:45:13.

work. In my constituency there are fantastic teachers why should they

:45:14.:45:24.

not be rewarded? There is only a limited amount of money. You should

:45:25.:45:30.

not get more just because you have been there for longer. Where is the

:45:31.:45:40.

incentive? If your child is in the class of 30 share who feels that

:45:41.:45:48.

they have not been treated fairly you will not have the most motivated

:45:49.:45:53.

teacher. As parents we have an interest in having the entire

:45:54.:45:58.

teaching workforce as motivated as possible. You want to enable the

:45:59.:46:04.

best teachers to succeed, but you need to be careful about how you do

:46:05.:46:11.

it. I want the best possible teachers to be teaching my children.

:46:12.:46:17.

I do not want teachers to feel they will only get a increases as a

:46:18.:46:21.

result of having worked there longer. There's Michael Gove going

:46:22.:46:28.

about this there right way? Teachers do not have a bad deal. They start

:46:29.:46:35.

off on higher pay and the paper addresses more rapidly than most

:46:36.:46:43.

other developed nations. We are talking about a six point bass keel.

:46:44.:46:49.

Performance`related pay is destructive. Teachers are not so

:46:50.:46:55.

concerned about performance`related pay. It is the workload and

:46:56.:47:07.

continuing until 68. Most people know that teachers work together as

:47:08.:47:12.

a community. Are you closer to settling this as a result of the

:47:13.:47:17.

strike? We are not closer to settling but we are closer to

:47:18.:47:20.

convincing parents what their concerns are. ?61 million is what

:47:21.:47:25.

Oxford council says it must save from it budget.

:47:26.:47:32.

As our political water reports there is a choice between cutting services

:47:33.:47:38.

or maybe finding ways to get more money out of residents.

:47:39.:47:49.

With 61 million to find Oxfordshire County Council is on the hunt for

:47:50.:47:54.

moneymaking opportunities. It hopes raising more cash will mean taking

:47:55.:48:01.

less a way from services. We are looking across all the services that

:48:02.:48:05.

we offer and see where we can find more money. Either circumstances

:48:06.:48:09.

where we can generate more income to help the financial situation. But

:48:10.:48:15.

moneymaking ideas were not at the top of the public's made at meetings

:48:16.:48:20.

this week where talks of possible cuts dominated.

:48:21.:48:25.

We decided to do and scientific market test.

:48:26.:48:31.

The council says it is going to look at always it can find of generating

:48:32.:48:35.

more cash. That could be from the smallest things such as raising

:48:36.:48:41.

library fines, at two charging more to film on the public highway. It

:48:42.:48:47.

could let out County Hall for weddings. More enforcement cameras

:48:48.:48:53.

in bus lanes. On top of that that want us to come up with suggestions

:48:54.:49:00.

about what we might pay more for. I definitely should a more. There is

:49:01.:49:07.

nothing that I like more than writing a cheque to the council. Who

:49:08.:49:14.

would not want to pay a bigger fine? Of course nobody said these things.

:49:15.:49:20.

Here is what they really said. I do not think Oxfordshire County Council

:49:21.:49:23.

needs lessons from the public on how to overcharge them. They are very

:49:24.:49:27.

good at that already. I am on a limited budget. It is hard to pay

:49:28.:49:33.

more than what you are already paying. The council says it has

:49:34.:49:42.

already frozen pay and cap the number of managers by 40%. Some of

:49:43.:49:47.

the ideas have come in such as crowd funding services. If you ask people

:49:48.:49:53.

to pay more for services you will get a lukewarm response. The easiest

:49:54.:50:01.

way for the council to make more money would be to put council tax up

:50:02.:50:05.

but that cannot do that by more than 2% without a referendum and that is

:50:06.:50:10.

no guarantee anyone would vote for a higher price.

:50:11.:50:19.

Eric Pickles has told councils they should look at using money from

:50:20.:50:26.

their reserves. Good Oxfordshire dip into some of the 18 million it has

:50:27.:50:32.

been rainy day money? We are looking at income generation. Once you have

:50:33.:50:41.

sourced the silverware that is it. Reserves were not the only

:50:42.:50:46.

suggestion from Eric Pickles. Last year he published a list of 50 ways

:50:47.:50:51.

to save. It included an idea that Oxfordshire hopes will be a

:50:52.:50:57.

moneyspinner. Some authorities are running a trade and services model.

:50:58.:51:02.

They offer services to other County Council. They make a profit and akin

:51:03.:51:05.

to the authority. Can we replicate that year? Selling council services

:51:06.:51:14.

to other councils. That is something taxpayers may find is more to their

:51:15.:51:23.

taste. Thank you to the market traders

:51:24.:51:26.

dear. What do the public think about these cats? If you are affected by a

:51:27.:51:33.

reduction you are probably upset about it. The BBC survey carried out

:51:34.:51:39.

a couple of weeks ago showed that six out of ten people recognised

:51:40.:51:43.

that their services from their local council were either the same or

:51:44.:51:47.

better despite all the cuts that had been made. I have the survey here.

:51:48.:51:57.

Then collect and, parks, libraries, are going all right. The police and

:51:58.:52:04.

road maintenance is worse. This is to do with overall impressions. This

:52:05.:52:10.

does not reflect where money has been taken out. There are still

:52:11.:52:18.

people being made redundant and services that will suffer. People

:52:19.:52:23.

are directly affected by that. The closure of child centres. People are

:52:24.:52:29.

going to be angry. What people want to see from their council is that

:52:30.:52:32.

they are doing everything they can and many are two capitals cost. To

:52:33.:52:48.

share rules where possible. Like any business they look at ways the

:52:49.:52:54.

services can be streamlined. We only have a certain pot of money. This

:52:55.:52:57.

country is coming out of a massive deficit. It is only fair that we ask

:52:58.:53:03.

people what they want to see provided. I topped to you about this

:53:04.:53:11.

when Labour was in government. You knew there were efficiencies needed

:53:12.:53:18.

and you did not get them. We made huge efficiency savings that there

:53:19.:53:23.

were other ones to be made. This is to do partly with technology. We

:53:24.:53:35.

have had three years now. The second year there was drawing on real

:53:36.:53:39.

efficiencies. The third year you saw services cat that were not used by

:53:40.:53:43.

many people. Things like youth clubs. What you are seeing in

:53:44.:53:51.

Oxfordshire is going to the heart of services. Far more people are

:53:52.:53:55.

noticing. That's why people are becoming more angry about it. The

:53:56.:54:00.

tragedy about this is there is no doubt there were going to be cuts.

:54:01.:54:06.

Because the government went so far and so fast we will not solve the

:54:07.:54:11.

deficits by the next election and there still will be more cuts. It is

:54:12.:54:17.

difficult to see how we get through that. The Prime Minister was asked

:54:18.:54:26.

on Wednesday about the growth of food banks. He gave his response

:54:27.:54:31.

about numbers are rising more under the last government figures from the

:54:32.:54:37.

biggest provider of food banks says that the number of people getting

:54:38.:54:46.

food arsenals is rising. Now Oxfam is contributing funds to deal with

:54:47.:54:53.

poverty in the UK. `` food banks is rising.

:54:54.:55:02.

Do we have the problems of developing countries? No. But what

:55:03.:55:07.

we are seeing is the nature of poverty in this country is changing.

:55:08.:55:11.

We have been tackling poverty in this country for 17 years. Food

:55:12.:55:18.

banks is something we have done over the last three years as we have seen

:55:19.:55:22.

more people becoming more desperate. We have gone from a situation where

:55:23.:55:28.

people needed long`term family and skills support to people being in a

:55:29.:55:32.

situation where they cannot put food on our plate for their families. We

:55:33.:55:38.

still have the same level of benefits in this country. We are not

:55:39.:55:49.

claiming benefits. Benefits in real terms are falling and have been

:55:50.:55:54.

falling for a while. We think there are long`term factors that have led

:55:55.:55:59.

to this problem. The longer term ones are people in work where the

:56:00.:56:05.

real level of wages has been falling for a long time. People have less

:56:06.:56:11.

put aside for Eirene D. If a crisis hits they can get into trouble. If

:56:12.:56:18.

you put that alongside the rising costs of food and housing then

:56:19.:56:22.

people are put in our fragile position. For those on benefit

:56:23.:56:29.

supplementing low wages then the problems are added to by recent

:56:30.:56:34.

benefits changes. You have got a combination of the income squeeze

:56:35.:56:39.

that people have suffered with more immediate changes to the Emirates.

:56:40.:56:42.

It is pushing many people over the edge. Charities like Oxfam and the

:56:43.:56:48.

Red Cross to the associates with disasters abroad think this is on

:56:49.:56:56.

the scale of priorities? When we see individual situations that people

:56:57.:56:59.

are in that they literally feed themselves. People are even going to

:57:00.:57:03.

food banks and turning down food that needs heating up because they

:57:04.:57:07.

have turned off their cookers at home. That is a serious situation.

:57:08.:57:14.

We are not talking about people that are homeless. By definition people

:57:15.:57:20.

who go to a food bank have somewhere to eat it.

:57:21.:57:26.

This is an appalling indictment on your government. Every week the

:57:27.:57:35.

Prime Minister brushes it away. I do not think the prime minister ever

:57:36.:57:43.

does just cast it aside ten times more under Labour. It went up ten

:57:44.:57:47.

times more under Labour. It is worse. If you look at the reasons,

:57:48.:57:56.

one in five is for welfare changes, one in five is cost of living

:57:57.:58:00.

changes. People need food banks were other reasons such as breakdown in

:58:01.:58:08.

families, terrible debt problems. These are problems that have

:58:09.:58:10.

occurred over many years, not just in the last two or three years. One

:58:11.:58:15.

other thing I would say is that under this government people are

:58:16.:58:19.

signposted to food banks in job centres. In the previous governments

:58:20.:58:27.

there was a ban on job centres signposting people to food banks.

:58:28.:58:32.

This is a problem that is a legacy of many years. You are in the same

:58:33.:58:41.

denial as David Cameron. The tenfold increase is from a very small base.

:58:42.:58:45.

The huge increase has happened since. 439 out of the last 40 months

:58:46.:58:53.

living standards have. People fall through their net. In June somebody

:58:54.:59:06.

really applied for DLA. Four months later a decision has not been taken.

:59:07.:59:10.

They then decided to stop the benefits. She has asked for a review

:59:11.:59:15.

and she will not hear a result until December. That will be eight months

:59:16.:59:19.

without hundreds of pounds per month. This is because of the way

:59:20.:59:25.

the benefits system has been changed. It is creating a huge chasm

:59:26.:59:31.

in somebody's finances. These are problems that have been happening

:59:32.:59:35.

ever since I got elected. They are a legacy of the previous government as

:59:36.:59:40.

well. Oxfam would not be doing what they are doing if this deal of this

:59:41.:59:47.

was unprecedented. Frankie. Now our round`up.

:59:48.:00:02.

A new maternity unit and Accident and Emergency for Bournemouth has

:00:03.:00:11.

been shelved after the Competition Commission ruled that a merger was

:00:12.:00:17.

not the in the interests. The European Union says new routes

:00:18.:00:25.

would be safer but unions lobbied against it in Brussels.

:00:26.:00:30.

A seven mile yellow ribbon was wrapped around parts of the Sussex

:00:31.:00:34.

countryside to symbolically protected from plans for a new town.

:00:35.:00:43.

10,000 homes will be built. All the land would be built. Cycle hire

:00:44.:00:55.

moved up a gear in Oxford. Should you get free parking at work?

:00:56.:00:58.

Eastleigh council is under fire after giving staff a payment of ?800

:00:59.:01:07.

per year when it closed a car park. They say they will get the ?800 back

:01:08.:01:12.

because people will spend that money in the public car park so it all

:01:13.:01:19.

comes back to the council. That is the Sunday Politics in the

:01:20.:01:23.

South. Like you to our guests. Keep up with their local politics by

:01:24.:01:28.

reading my blog. down immigration, but not in any way

:01:29.:01:34.

which links in with this. Thank you to both of you for being my guests

:01:35.:01:35.

today. Are the Lib Dems like a wonky

:01:36.:01:50.

shopping trolley? Why is Nick Clegg kicking off over free schools? And

:01:51.:01:56.

what about Boris and George's love bombing of China? All questions for

:01:57.:02:02.

The Week Ahead. We are joined now by the former Home Office minister and

:02:03.:02:06.

Liberal Democrat MP Jeremy Browne. Jeremy Browne, let me ask you this

:02:07.:02:15.

key question - ??GAPNEXT who is in the ascendancy in your party, those

:02:16.:02:18.

who would fear to the left, or those who would fear to the centre? The

:02:19.:02:24.

point I was making in the interview that I gave to the times was that I

:02:25.:02:30.

want us to be unambiguously and on up genetically -- and

:02:31.:02:40.

unapologetically a Liberal party. I do not want us to be craving the

:02:41.:02:45.

approval of columnists like Polly Toynbee. I do not want us to be a

:02:46.:02:49.

pale imitation of the Labour Party. I think we should be proud and

:02:50.:02:54.

unambiguously a authentic Liberal party. That is my ambition for the

:02:55.:02:59.

party. If it is, as you put it, fearing to the left, then I think

:03:00.:03:03.

that is a mistake, I think we should be on the liberal centre ground But

:03:04.:03:09.

is it actually veering to the left, your party? I think there is a

:03:10.:03:13.

danger when a party, or any organisation, feels that it is in a

:03:14.:03:19.

difficult position, to look inwards, to look for reassuring

:03:20.:03:27.

familiar policy positions. I do not want us to be the party which looks

:03:28.:03:31.

inwards and speaks to the 9% of people who are minded to support us

:03:32.:03:35.

already. I want us to look outwards and speak to the 91% of the

:03:36.:03:39.

population, for whom I think we have got a good story to tell about the

:03:40.:03:42.

contribution we have made to getting the deficit down, cutting crime

:03:43.:03:46.

keeping interest rates low, and also, distinctive Liberal Democrat

:03:47.:03:51.

policies for example on income tax and pupil premiums. If we look like

:03:52.:03:56.

we are a party which is uneasy and ambivalent about our role in

:03:57.:04:00.

government, people will not give us credit for the successes of the

:04:01.:04:03.

government, and we will not be able to claim the authorship which we

:04:04.:04:06.

should be able to claim for our policies excesses in government I

:04:07.:04:10.

want us to be confident, outward looking, and authentically liberal.

:04:11.:04:17.

If we are that, people real sense that and they will respond

:04:18.:04:21.

positively. Does that not therefore make it rather strange that Nick

:04:22.:04:24.

Craig should choose to distance himself from the coalition's schools

:04:25.:04:31.

policy? Well, I support free schools, I think they are a liberal

:04:32.:04:41.

policy. Education is a fascinating area, so let's explore it a bit We

:04:42.:04:45.

have had two very significant and troubling reports in the last

:04:46.:04:49.

fortnight, one from Alan Milburn, saying that social mobility has

:04:50.:04:52.

stalled in this country, in other words, what your parents do is a

:04:53.:04:56.

reliable guide to how you will get on in life and the other saying that

:04:57.:05:00.

Britain lags behind our competitors, the other

:05:01.:05:03.

industrialised countries, in terms of the educational attainment of

:05:04.:05:07.

15-year-olds. Both of those are worrying. We have a scandalous

:05:08.:05:12.

situation in this country where two thirds of children from

:05:13.:05:14.

disadvantaged backgrounds are failing to get five Grade A to Grade

:05:15.:05:24.

C. Some get none at all. If we were the world leaders in education, we

:05:25.:05:28.

could have an interesting conversation about how we are able

:05:29.:05:31.

to maintain that position, but we are not. Whether there are good

:05:32.:05:34.

things one less good things which have happened in our schools over

:05:35.:05:39.

the last 30-40 years, we really need to raise our game and stop letting

:05:40.:05:44.

young people down who need a good quality education in order to

:05:45.:05:46.

realise their full potential in life. It sounds like you do not

:05:47.:05:52.

share Mr Clegg's designations? I think there are two big dangers for

:05:53.:05:58.

us as a party. I do not think we should be instinctively statist and

:05:59.:06:03.

I do not think either we should be instinctively in favour of the

:06:04.:06:07.

status quo. I want us to have a restless, radical, energetic,

:06:08.:06:12.

liberal reforming instinct, which is about putting more power and

:06:13.:06:14.

responsible at the end opportunity in the hands of individual people.

:06:15.:06:20.

As I say, we look at the education system, of course there are good

:06:21.:06:23.

teachers and good outcomes in some schools and for some pupils,

:06:24.:06:27.

overall, our performance in this country is not good enough, so the

:06:28.:06:31.

status quo has not been a successful stop I am interested in how we can

:06:32.:06:43.

innovate. -- has not been a success. Are the Tories wooing you? Well I

:06:44.:06:49.

do not know if that is the right word, I have been reported, and I

:06:50.:06:56.

have set myself, that the Conservatives have, if you like

:06:57.:07:01.

made some advances or generous suggestions to me, but I am a

:07:02.:07:05.

liberal, and I am a Liberal Democrat. I have been a member of

:07:06.:07:09.

the Lib Dems since the party was founded, I joined when I was 18

:07:10.:07:13.

years old. I have campaigned tirelessly for the Liberal Democrats

:07:14.:07:18.

for my entire adult life, so I am not about to go and join another

:07:19.:07:21.

political party. I would turn this on its head, let me put it like

:07:22.:07:29.

this, I think there are quite a few liberals in the other political

:07:30.:07:31.

parties, people like Alan Milburn, who wrote a report on social

:07:32.:07:36.

mobility, people like Nick Bowles in the Conservative Party. Our

:07:37.:07:40.

ambition, as Liberal Democrats, should be to attract liberals from

:07:41.:07:43.

other political parties, and no political party, to the Lib Dems.

:07:44.:07:54.

Just briefly, have you suggested that the Tories do not run a

:07:55.:07:57.

candidate against you in the next election? I have not suggested

:07:58.:08:04.

anything of the sort. The Conservatives have to make their own

:08:05.:08:06.

decisions about which candidates they select, and I will take on

:08:07.:08:12.

whoever is select it from each of the political parties. Thank you for

:08:13.:08:25.

joining us. There is a danger not from Jeremy Browne, but from Mr

:08:26.:08:29.

Clegg, in that, having been part of a coalition which has gone through

:08:30.:08:33.

an enormous squeeze in living standards for three years, it did

:08:34.:08:37.

not look like both was coming, it was being regarded overall as a

:08:38.:08:41.

failure, but now, it may be turning the corner, so why would you then

:08:42.:08:46.

start to disassociate yourself from the coalition's policies? Yes, the

:08:47.:08:53.

danger for Nick Clegg is that he makes the Liberal Democrats looked

:08:54.:08:56.

like visitors in a guesthouse, a guesthouse which is owned by the

:08:57.:08:59.

Conservatives. As you say, they were there for the three difficult years,

:09:00.:09:03.

and just at the moment when the economy seems to be coming right,

:09:04.:09:07.

and we are getting some nice growth, they seek to distance themselves. It

:09:08.:09:12.

is interesting that Jeremy Browne came out with the outrageously

:09:13.:09:15.

disloyal statement that he supported free schools statement. That is a

:09:16.:09:19.

disloyal Liberal Democrat view, but on Thursday, of course, the Liberal

:09:20.:09:23.

Democrat party was in favour of free schools, because in that statement

:09:24.:09:27.

about the Al-Madinah school, David Laws made a passionate defence about

:09:28.:09:31.

what Nick Clegg is now criticising, which is having on qualified

:09:32.:09:38.

teachers. If things are now coming right, the big risk for the Liberal

:09:39.:09:43.

Democrats always was that they would not get the credit anyway. Well if

:09:44.:09:48.

they diss associate themselves like this, they definitely will not get

:09:49.:09:54.

the credit. It depends which voters their opinion poll ratings are dire,

:09:55.:09:58.

he spoke about 9%, and sometimes it is less than that. So, where are

:09:59.:10:02.

they going to get those voters from? They have not got those

:10:03.:10:08.

anti-Iraq war voters. Is it not Mission impossible, getting Labour

:10:09.:10:12.

voters test surely the left of the Lib Dem vote is peeling off towards

:10:13.:10:18.

labour, not away from Labour? I wonder to what extent, and this

:10:19.:10:26.

might be speculation, this might be organised and arranged, that Cameron

:10:27.:10:30.

and Clegg both understand that they have groups of voters that they need

:10:31.:10:34.

to get, so they need to send messages out to different groups, it

:10:35.:10:39.

looks like a bit of a setup to me. Boris in China, along with boy

:10:40.:10:50.

George - let's have a look... Who, according to JK Rowling, was Harry

:10:51.:10:55.

Potter's first girlfriend? That s right, and she is Chinese overseas

:10:56.:11:01.

student, is that not right at Hogwarts? Actually, we are not sure

:11:02.:11:08.

it is right, she is actually from Scotland. It is not only London

:11:09.:11:12.

which has a diverse society. Putting that to one side, we are inviting

:11:13.:11:18.

the Chinese into finance our power stations, to run big banks in the

:11:19.:11:23.

cities, we are giving out more visas to them, are we right to embrace the

:11:24.:11:27.

Dragon? What worries me about the power stations then, it is 30% of

:11:28.:11:32.

investment, and it reminds me a lot of PFI, the idea that you do not

:11:33.:11:36.

want a huge investment on your balance sheet, but if somebody bails

:11:37.:11:40.

out halfway through, we cannot stop with a half finished power station.

:11:41.:11:48.

It is EDF, the French company, which will actually build it, and we will

:11:49.:11:55.

be guaranteeing the debt for them. It is extraordinary that there has

:11:56.:11:59.

been so little adverse comment after George Osborne and Boris's trip to

:12:00.:12:03.

China, and is it now really the UK Government policy, to sell Britain

:12:04.:12:13.

to the Chinese? There was a debate in government about this, as they

:12:14.:12:17.

were getting ready for the trip and there will be at some point in the

:12:18.:12:21.

next six months be a David Cameron trip to China. He has had to wait

:12:22.:12:24.

three years because they were annoyed about him meeting the Dalai

:12:25.:12:28.

llama. There were some people in the Foreign Office who were saying,

:12:29.:12:31.

fine, but tread carefully. George Osborne's view is absolutely not,

:12:32.:12:37.

get in there, I do not care about any of these problems, get stuck

:12:38.:12:45.

in. I think he is storing up five years since the financial crisis,

:12:46.:12:50.

Chinese banks are being given a special, light touch regulatory

:12:51.:12:54.

regime. What could possibly go wrong?! There is lots to see. Energy

:12:55.:13:03.

prices have continued to dominate this week. We have got the EDF deal,

:13:04.:13:11.

whereby we are going to be giving them twice the market rate for their

:13:12.:13:14.

energy. But for the coalition, all eyes are on the GDP figures. The

:13:15.:13:23.

expectation and hope is that the recovery will be stronger than the

:13:24.:13:25.

figures have suggested so far, on which basis it can influence the

:13:26.:13:31.

result of the next general election. The chief economist at the

:13:32.:13:36.

Bank of England was saying on Twitter last week that the Bank of

:13:37.:13:40.

England may now bring forward the assessment when it says, maybe we

:13:41.:13:44.

are going to have to change monetary policy, if unemployment goes below

:13:45.:13:49.

7%. And we know what that means interest rates. The Bank of England

:13:50.:13:58.

on Twitter! That is it for today. The Daily Politics is back tomorrow

:13:59.:14:02.

on BBC Two. I will be back with prime Minster 's questions on

:14:03.:14:05.

Wednesday, and of course, we will be back at 11 o'clock on BBC One next

:14:06.:14:07.

Sunday.

:14:08.:14:14.

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