Browse content similar to 30/03/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
Can Ed Davey keep the lights on? Can he ever deliver cheaper power? Or | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
the investment our energy market badly needs? We'll be asking the | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
Energy Secretary. Why has the anti-independence Better | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
Together campaign suddenly got the jitters? We'll be quizzing Scottish | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
Secretary Alistair Carmichael. And whatever happened to the BNP? | :00:59. | :01:00. | |
They could be heading In the South: The crisis in | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
temporary sites for travellers. Dorset has taken three years to | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
produce just one ` will we see even more illegal encampments this | :01:11. | :01:11. | |
summer? which runs the capital's Fire | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
Service. The Mayor has a political move designed to silence his | :01:18. | :01:18. | |
critics. And with me, as always, the most | :01:19. | :01:27. | |
useless political panel in the business, who we're contractually | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
obliged to insult on a weekly basis. But not today, because they are our | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
chosen ones. They are the brightest and the best, we've even hired a | :01:37. | :01:43. | |
plane to prove it: Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt who'll be | :01:44. | :01:50. | |
tweeting throughout the programme. Right, left and centre of the | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
Westminster Establishment have been unanimous in saying there would be | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
no chance of monetary union with the rest of the UK for an independent | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
Scotland. Then an unnamed minister spoke to our Nick saying that wasn't | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
necessarily so, and that made the Guardian's front page. The SNP were | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
delighted and the anti-independence campaign rushed to limit the damage. | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
The faux pas has come at a time when the Better Together side was already | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
beginning to worry that things were going the Nationalists' way. Let's | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
speak to a leading light in that campaign, Scottish Secretary | :02:23. | :02:24. | |
Alistair Carmichael, who's in Aberdeen at the Scottish Liberal | :02:25. | :02:33. | |
Democrat spring conference. Alistair Carmichael, why is there a | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
sense of crisis now engulfing the no campaign? I think that is something | :02:39. | :02:48. | |
of an overstatement. What you have got is, I am getting my own voice | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
played back in my ear. What you have got here is one story from an | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
unnamed source, a minister who we are told, we do not know for | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
certain, who has speculated on the possibility of a currency union | :03:05. | :03:07. | |
actually happening. I do not think that is helpful but it is not any | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
big deal. You have to measure it against what we have got publicly | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
named on the record. We have got a detailed intervention of the | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
Governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney, outlining all the | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
reasons why a currency union would not be a good idea. And then you | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
have got independent advice from the permanent Secretary of the Treasury | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
himself saying actually, this is such a bad idea, that I would never | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
advise a chancellor to go ahead with it. You set one against the other | :03:35. | :03:42. | |
and you see that pretty much the force of argument is very much | :03:43. | :03:44. | |
against those of us who want to remain in the United Kingdom. All | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
the minister was saying is come the day, if Westminster is negotiating | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
with a new independent Scotland, a deal is to be done, Faslane where | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
the nuclear deterrent is, there is nowhere else in the UK to put that | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
is, certainly not for the next 20 years, a deal would be done, the | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
nuclear weapons would stay in Faslane and Scotland would get a | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
monetary union with the rest of the UK. That is perfectly plausible, | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
isn't it? No, I'm sorry, it is simply not plausible. The economy is | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
more important than anything else. What you have had here is very clear | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
advice from the treasury officials saying it is not in the economic | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
best interests of the people of England Wales, Northern Ireland, any | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
more than it is in the interests of people in Scotland. Where do you put | :04:32. | :04:40. | |
the nukes? The outcome will not change. Where do you put the nukes | :04:41. | :04:48. | |
when the Nationalists kick you out? I do not believe that will be a | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
problem because I do not believe Scotland will vote for independence. | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
But you might be asking the Scottish Nationalists, who are apparently | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
promoting this, are they then not sincere when they say they want to | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
remove nuclear weapons from Scotland? It seems to be a curious | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
mixed message. As you know, I have not got the Nationalists, I have got | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
you, so let me ask you the questions. You are widely seen as | :05:14. | :05:26. | |
running a campaign which is too negative. The Nationalists are | :05:27. | :05:28. | |
narrowing the gap in the poll found you are squabbling among yourselves. | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
This campaign is going pear shaped, isn't it? No, let's deal with the | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
polls. All the polls show that the people of Scotland want to stay as | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
part of the United Kingdom. Yes, there were a couple of polls last | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
week that said the gap was narrowing a little. The most recent poll of | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
all, the poll on Wednesday which actually polled people's voting | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
intentions on the question come September showed that only 28% of | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
people in Scotland were prepared to say they were voting yes, as opposed | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
to the 42% who were on our side of the argument saying they wish to | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
remain part of the UK. That poll said women were skewing towards a | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
yes vote and it showed that the don't knows were beginning to skew | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
towards a yes vote. That is why you yourself wrote this morning that if | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
your campaign does not get its act together, you would be sleepwalking | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
into a split to quote yourself. No, to quote myself I said it was not | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
impossible that the Nationalists could win that. That is absolutely | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
the case. The biggest danger for the United Kingdom camp in this whole | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
argument is people will look at the polls. They show us with a healthy | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
lead consistently. As a consequence, they think this will not happen. It | :06:48. | :07:04. | |
can happen. I have got to tell everybody that it could, not least | :07:05. | :07:06. | |
because the Nationalists have an enormous advantage in terms of the | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
amount of money they have at their disposal to buy momentum. They will | :07:10. | :07:11. | |
be advertising in cinemas, in football matches and on social | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
media. We have got to realise what is coming and as a consequence, we | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
have got to get our arguments in place and our campaign as sharp as | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
theirs. Thank you for joining us. Nick, this unnamed minister who gave | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
you the story, did he or she know what they were doing? I do not think | :07:32. | :07:39. | |
they were sitting there wanting to blast this out there, because the | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
agreed government position was there will not be a currency union, if | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
there is a vote for independence. But what I was managing to get hold | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
of whether thoughts that are in the deeper recesses of people's minds, | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
when they are looking at the polls which have been narrowing, or there | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
was Alistair Carmichael quite rightly says, the pro-UK vote is | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
still ahead. People are looking down the line, what would happen after | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
the 18th of September this year, not just the next day but the next | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
year, in those very lengthy negotiations that would take place, | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
when there would be a lot of moving places on the table. You talked | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
about Faslane, what would happen then and that is what I managed to | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
get hold of, that there are thoughts about all those pieces that would be | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
on the table. It is not surprising that some in Westminster think | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
that. Let's take the Shadow Chancellor Danny Alexander at his | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
word, they do not want a monetary union. But if they are faced with | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
giving the Scots a monetary union in a post-independent Scotland, or | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
having to remove the nuclear submarines from Faslane, where they | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
have nowhere else to put them, probably except North America, there | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
is a deal to be done. I think whatever minister gave Nick his | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
story is probably onto something. If the Scots vote for independence, of | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
course a deal will be done about the currency because it is not in | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
London's interests to have a rancorous relationship with | :09:12. | :09:13. | |
Edinburgh. Even if the deal is not done, how does one country stop | :09:14. | :09:21. | |
another country using its. That is different. All London can really do | :09:22. | :09:29. | |
is prevent Scottish intervention on the monetary policy committee. The | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
interest rate would be set without any regard to the Scottish interest. | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
Even that is only a fatal problem if the Scottish economy becomes so out | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
of sync with the UK economy. Except it is a problem for Scotland's | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
financial system because if you go down that route there is no means of | :09:48. | :09:50. | |
injecting liquidity into the financial system in the financial | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
crisis. That is why they would rather have a monetary union. Is it | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
not remarkable to hear the Secretary of State for Scotland here that the | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
Nationalists are spending too much money, when he represents a campaign | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
which brings together all the major parties in the UK and all the | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
resources of the UK and he is bleating about the Nationalists | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
having more to spend? I did think that was a funny line and it was in | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
the Observer. It lays into Alex Salmond's plucky upstart idea that | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
he's taking on this big establishment. I thought it was a | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
bizarre open goal, I am losing my football metaphors, forgive me. The | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
polls are so in favour of a no vote. But the trend has been going | :10:33. | :10:40. | |
their way. We have six months left which is not enough to close the | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
gap. They always tell you Alex Salmond is a strong finisher. The | :10:45. | :10:52. | |
plucky upstarts have this funding from a millionaire. The Better | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
Together campaign are being incredibly cautious about where they | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
get their money from. They do not want to go to the City of London | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
Police say, give us a couple of million. | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
Being Energy Secretary used to be a bit of a dawdle, especially when | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
North Sea oil was flowing. Now it's very much a hot potato as Ed Davey | :11:10. | :11:17. | |
has been finding out the hard way. High household energy bills have | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
been top of his inbox. The big six energy companies account for 95% of | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
the market. Off Johnson -- Ofgem said there had been possible tacit | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
coordination in the timing of price rises and ordered an investigation | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
by the competition and markets authorities which will look at | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
whether the big six should be broken up. Where does that leave | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
investment? The boss of Centrica made the point that you would not | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
spend money building an extension if you knew in two years time your home | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
might be bulldozed. The spare margin, that is what is left in the | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
generating system to cope with a surge in demand on a cold winter's | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
night, is due to drop to historically low levels in 2016, | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
according to Ofgem. Normally at around 15%, capacity could drop to | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
2% after the next election and that could lead to a surge in the sale of | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
candles. Now where is that light switch? | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
Energy Secretary Ed Davey, joins me now. Oh, we have found the light | :12:25. | :12:32. | |
switch! The gap between a peak winter demand and generating | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
capacity could possibly reach 2% next winter or the winter after. We | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
will keep the lights on, that is for clear. When we came to power, energy | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
investment had been relatively low. The Labour Party had failed to deal | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
with the energy deficit. From day one we have been pushing up | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
massively. Investment has been 8 billion a year. Last year was a | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
record. Spare capacity is now heading to 2%. Why are you allowing | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
it to get that no? Because we have been increasing investment | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
massively, last was a record level, we will be able to keep the lights | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
on. Some of the figures you are showing suggests we are not doing | :13:19. | :13:20. | |
anything. We have not only done enough in our last three years, we | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
have put in measures to stimulate huge amounts of extra investment. We | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
have the healthiest pipeline investment in our history. We will | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
come onto investment in a minute. None of that change is the fact that | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
we will be close to 2% next winter or the winter after that. We have | :13:41. | :13:49. | |
one major power station shut down, or a cold winter away from having | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
major problems with energy supply. It is still 2%. Let me explain. The | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
figures assume we are not doing anything but we are doing something. | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
Look at the National Grid. They are able to bring in energy from | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
interconnector is because we are connected up to Europe. They are | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
able to create a reserve so if we get to problems, they will have a | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
mothballed plant they can bring on. You have not agreed with anybody on | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
that. The decision was taken last July. But no supplier has agreed to | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
under mothball its plant. We would not expect them to do that yet. Our | :14:32. | :14:38. | |
plan is in place. On time, on schedule, as we already thought it | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
would be. But you have not got a single agreement with a power supply | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
who has mothballed plant to on the ball it. We did not expect to. Our | :14:49. | :14:55. | |
plan is in me National Grid will do an election to allow those plants to | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
come on. There is a huge amount of interest. There are gigawatts of | :15:01. | :15:03. | |
power that can come in to come on. There is a huge amount of interest. | :15:04. | :15:05. | |
There are gigawatts of power that can come into that auction and we | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
are not other measures we can take and that is just in the short term. | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
We have a plan for the medium-term. We will be running the first auction | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
for new capacity. The final decision will be taken and we have learned | :15:21. | :15:34. | |
lessons from what they do in North America and other European countries | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
so we can stay minute mothballed plants and new plants to be built. I | :15:38. | :15:39. | |
am absolutely clear there is not a problem. You only build 9000 | :15:40. | :15:49. | |
megawatts of new capacity from 2011-13. You have closed almost | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
22,000 megawatts. Why would you be so cavalier with a nation's power | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
supply? The last Government was cavalier because we knew those | :16:02. | :16:03. | |
figures are happening because we've known for a long time a lot of power | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
plants were coming to the end of their life, coal power plants, | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
nuclear power plants, and we had to increase the rate of investment, but | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
we... That shows clearly you are closing twice as much, you have to | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
date, closed twice as much as you have opened, hence the lack of spare | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
capacity. We knew a lot of them are coming back for the last Labour | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
Government knew. We have increased the new so that's increasing | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
significantly, far faster than under the last Government but also | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
remember, you were very wrong at the beginning of your clip, margins at | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
15% are very own usual. They are historically high. The average | :16:43. | :16:49. | |
margin was 25%. That was wasting a huge amount of money. But since | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
privatisation, we've had margins between 5% and 10%. Normally, high | :16:55. | :16:57. | |
margins historically, which is costly. Now we will have | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
historically low margins. People have to pay for that, so we make | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
sure the lights stay on, we have a short-term policy I have described | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
to you, and medium-term policy and a long-term policy. The long-term | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
policy comes huge investment between nuclear and optional, | :17:17. | :17:38. | |
policy comes huge investment between on. Ofgem, Independent, says the | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
chance of blackouts by 2016 has increased fourfold under your watch. | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
What they say, if you read the report, if we did nothing, they | :17:50. | :17:57. | |
would be problems. But we have been working with Ofgem. We have been | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
working with National Grid, and we have agreed that there will be a | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
reserve capacity which can come on if we get to the peak for the Best | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
not just on the supply side but demand and into connectors. You talk | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
about industry having to move to off-peak times. We say, they are | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
prepared to that you paid for it, and it makes commercial sense for | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
them, it's a sensible thing for the Wii will pay them to move to | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
off-peak. You have huge diesel parks for the you talk as if that | :18:30. | :18:32. | |
something new but it's been around for a long time for the 200 these | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
contracts out there. We want to expand that. You have hundreds of | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
diesel generators to click into, haven't you? There's a whole range | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
of generators. Diesel generation, dirty fuel. There's a of mothballed | :18:48. | :18:54. | |
gas which can come. If you look at the increase of the independent | :18:55. | :19:03. | |
generators, many companies, a range of power companies who are building | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
a new power station and want to build new ones. This is a healthy | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
situation. You say you made over 100 billion new investment between now | :19:14. | :19:16. | |
and the end of the decade to restore capacity and meet renewable | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
targets. Now you have referred the Big Six to the competition | :19:22. | :19:24. | |
commission, how much of that to expect to come from them? We will | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
see what the market delivers. We have always expected independent | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
generators to do a lot more than is happening in the past. How much from | :19:34. | :19:40. | |
the Big Six? It's not for me to say it's going to be best from that | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
company. The real interest is we have huge amounts of companies | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
wanting to invest. If you look at independent analysis, they say | :19:50. | :19:52. | |
Britain is one of the best places to invest in energy in the world. We | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
are the worldly do in offshore wind, one of the best for | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
renewables, one of the only countries getting nuclear power | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
stations. Rather than the bleaker picture you're painting, the reverse | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
is the case. We are seeing an investment renaissance. You say | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
that. Let me give you some facts. Under this Government, only one gas | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
plant has been under construction, only one started under your watch | :20:20. | :20:22. | |
for the others were done under Labour. You have none in the | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
pipeline. The Big Six has pulled back from further investment | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
including new offshore wind investment and none of what you're | :20:31. | :20:32. | |
talking about will come before 2020 anyway. That's simply not true. The | :20:33. | :20:39. | |
balance reserves I've talked about, the reserve planned: Making sure the | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
mothballed plant could come on, I capacity market incentivising new | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
power, will happen way before 2020, so that's not true. But doesn't | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
answer the extra capacity. You have no answer between now and the end of | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
this decade. We have three answers. Let me repeat them for you. I said | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
permanent, not the short-term ones you are putting in place to try to | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
do with spare capacity. We have a short-term plan, of course, that's | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
very sensible. Medium-term plan, auctioning for new power stations. | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
That can lead to both mothballed plant and when you plant, permanent | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
plant being built, and the long-term plan, to stimulator long-term | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
investment, some of which will be built and come online way before the | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
end of the decade. I'm afraid, it's a far rosier picture than your | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
painting. It's also far more expensive, too. Let's look at how | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
you are replacing relatively cheap energy with much more expensive | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
sources of energy. Wholesale prices is ?50 per megawatt. You have done a | :21:43. | :21:49. | |
deal with EDF, nuclear, ?92 50. You have indexed it for 30 years at 2012 | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
prices. All of that puts up our bills. First | :21:53. | :22:09. | |
of all, the support of the low Carbon is just 4% on bills. What has | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
been driving peoples bills over the last decade has been wholesale gas | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
prices. No one knows what guys prices are going to be in the future | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
-- gas prices. When you look at the Ukraine and other market indicators, | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
many people are worried that by the time nuclear power stations come | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
online for example, the price of gas could be significantly higher. You | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
have indexed linked that for them by the time you get any power from | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
this, it'll be up to ?125 per megawatt hour. The price of gas been | :22:41. | :22:47. | |
going up far higher. Not recently. Despite Iran, Ukraine, Libya, not | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
recently. The long-term forecast, Andrew, it's going to go higher but | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
more importantly than that, this is an area we could disagree on but | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
it's very important that power plants pay the cost of pollution. In | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
those prizes, all of those prices except the wholesale out a steep | :23:06. | :23:08. | |
price, you have those power stations paying the cost of air pollution. If | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
gas and coal where paying the proper carbon price, you would see nuclear | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
and renewables as competitive. It's very important that we ensure that | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
power plants pay the cost of the pollution. When you were last on | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
this programme to talk about this in May 2012, you said that the price of | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
offshore wind was coming down fast. You told me it would be down by 30% | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
in the next few years. That figure is 155, and for the deeper stuff, | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
it's going to be ?165. That's the first year of a limit control | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
framework which had it coming down. If you talk to many companies, | :23:48. | :23:54. | |
Siemens had invested with their partners, ?310 million with two new | :23:55. | :24:03. | |
factories. They are talking about lower prices because what they are | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
saying to me is that, rather than the 30% cost reductions I talked | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
about, I was wrong, they are targeting 40%. You said prices would | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
come down 30% in two years for that that was 2012 and they have gone | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
higher. I absolutely did not say that. Your exact quote was 30% in | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
the next few years. Your exact few years. You said two years, I sell a | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
few years. I haven't changed a single moment that you said two | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
years, I said a few years. That's what we are projecting. They will | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
come down. You have to invest in technology. Let me give you this | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
example. When people invest in mobile phones to start off with, | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
they were expensive, and they were clunky and the costs were going down | :24:49. | :24:57. | |
for the one final question. You put the Big Six into investigation | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
because they made a 5% return on investment and you're done a deal | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
with EDF, nuclear power, which will guarantee them a return of 10% - 15% | :25:07. | :25:13. | |
every year for 30 years. Doesn't that underline the shambles of your | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
energy policy? You have mixed up two separate things. The 5% Ofgem are | :25:18. | :25:20. | |
talking about is on the supply retail side. The percentage you | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
quoted for EDF is in the wholesale side of two different markets. It's | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
the same return. It's not. You are comparing apples and pears, | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
dangerous thing to do. You have to do have a high return but in the | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
retail market, with a 5% stake, there is less risk, says a low | :25:41. | :25:47. | |
return. Ed Davey, I'm sorry we haven't got more time. Thank you. | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
Have me back. We will. Whatever happened to the BNP? The far right | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
party looked as if it was on the verge of a major breakthrough not so | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
long ago. Now it seems to be going nowhere. In a moment we'll be | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
speaking to the party's press officer, Simon Derby. But first | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
here's Giles. His report contains some flash photography. For a moment | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
in 2009 Nick Griffin and the BNP had a spring in their step, smiling at | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
their success of winning two seats in the European Parliament. They | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
already were the second largest party in a London council and had a | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
London Assembly seat. Despite concerns from mainstream parties | :26:21. | :26:30. | |
their vote was up. Our vote increased up to 943,000. Savouring | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
success was brief that morning as anti-far right protestors invaded | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
and egged the press conference and forced the BNP MEPs into a hasty | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
retreat. What is more significant is that, in the years since, that | :26:43. | :26:44. | |
retreat has been matched internally, electorally and in the minds of | :26:45. | :26:53. | |
those who had given them that vote. For a number of years they were | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
performing better than the UK Independence Party and other smaller | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
parties like the Greens and respect. The problem for the BNP if they | :27:02. | :27:04. | |
didn't make any inroads into other groups, they didn't go into the | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
middle class, the young, they didn't go into women and ethnic minorities | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
for obvious reasons. So the party was quickly handicapped from the | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
outset. Not that you would have known that at the outset. In 2006 in | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
Barking and Dagenham, the party won 12 council seats against a back drop | :27:22. | :27:24. | |
of discontent with the ruling Labour council and Government and picking | :27:25. | :27:26. | |
up on immigration and housing concerns in the borough. It's | :27:27. | :27:36. | |
because of all the different nationality people moving in the | :27:37. | :27:38. | |
area, they are taking over everything. My Nan and grandad lived | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
there all their lives. I thought I would vote for BNP. Hopefully, yeah, | :27:44. | :27:50. | |
they will get elected over here. When I came to Barking, Dagenham and | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
Redbridge in 2006, the BNP with a second largest party in one of the | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
local councils. You can even find non-white people who voted BNP. Now | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
they have no counsellors, and even though can when you talk to people, | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
you will find among the older white working-class population concerned | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
that the BNP claim to represent, everyone says they are nowhere. So | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
what happened to that about? On behalf of all the people in Britain, | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
we in Barking have not just beaten, that we have smashed the attempt of | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
extremist outsiders. The local Labour MP was as clear in 2010 as | :28:29. | :28:36. | |
she is now. I always knew if we could manage to ensure that wasn't a | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
single BNP councillor left on the council and I won my seat, it would | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
stop the process of disintegration. But what beat the BNP here in 2010 | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
was a mobilisation of the Labour vote. And today it is not hard to | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
find the same discontent over the same issues. It's just finding a new | :28:51. | :28:59. | |
political home. A couple of years ago, I used to vote Labour. | :29:00. | :29:01. | |
Obviously, they haven't done nothing around here as much now, with jobs | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
and unemployment, and housing and stuff like that about, basically, | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
BNP ain't around here no more. Now it's more about UKIP and I believe | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
that these UKIP are saying are true. If I thought BNP would make the | :29:17. | :29:19. | |
difference, I would vote but is not in the people behind them. They all | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
get bandaged with the same brush. I'm going to vote UKIP because BNP | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
didn't get anywhere. What they say in UKIP, with a bit of luck, they | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
will get somewhere. It's not racist but it's just that our kids haven't | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
got jobs. Nick Griffin's dislike of UKIP is mutual but his once fellow | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
MEP Andrew Brons who's now left the party issued a statement to this | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
programme saying BNP failure is closer to home post 2010. It was | :29:45. | :29:53. | |
after that election discontent arose amongst sections of the membership. | :29:54. | :30:08. | |
Those members who left or were thrown out by Nick Griffin had | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
already felt let down by his appearance on Question Time. It was | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
a national platform for the BNP, something they felt they had the | :30:17. | :30:24. | |
right to through electoral success. This was no big breakthrough moment | :30:25. | :30:31. | |
for Griffin, unlike it was for John Marina pen when he appeared on | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
national television in France. He went on to mobilise a national | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
force. Despite there being some voters tuned to their message, for | :30:40. | :30:42. | |
the BNP, becoming such a force here has never looked quite so difficult. | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
And Simon Derby from the BNP joins me now. Welcome to the Sunday | :30:47. | :30:55. | |
Politics. It was not long ago you had 55 councillors up and down the | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
land, you now have two. You are on the brink of extinction. That is not | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
true. I have watched the film. It is very negative as I would expect. The | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
party has faced a few problems. The main thing to bear in mind is that | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
the issues, the problems the country faces have gone away. We won nearly | :31:16. | :31:21. | |
a million votes in the European elections. We brought that mandate | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
to the establishment and we were denied. Let's face it, we would -- | :31:27. | :31:38. | |
were denied any opportunity to take place in the political apparatus. | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
You have been destroyed by a pincer movement. UKIP has taken away or | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
more respectable voters and the EDL is better at anti-Muslim protests | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
and street thuggery. The EDL is not a political party. I take your point | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
about UKIP. The power structure took a look at us and so we were a threat | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
to power. We were not making this stuff up, we meant it and they have | :32:05. | :32:10. | |
co-opted our message. This shameless promotion of UKIP, you have evenly | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
had him presenting the weather on this programme. That is | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
unbelievable. That was a joke. Across Europe, in France, your | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
sister party the National front will probably do very well. You can see | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
the rise of the far right across Western Europe so why are you in | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
decline? We are not far right, I reject that label. How would you | :32:36. | :32:45. | |
describe yourselves nationalists and Patriots. Why are you in decline and | :32:46. | :32:58. | |
other similar parties to yours are on the rise? You mentioned Barking | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
and it is very interesting because I was involved in that campaign. What | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
Margaret Hodge and her Labour Party did, they replaced the white | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
indigenous population in Barking and Dagenham with Africans, that is how | :33:13. | :33:16. | |
they won that election. For that was true, you would be doing well | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
elsewhere. You have now got a leader who is declared bankrupt and your | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
party is heading for bankruptcy. No, it is not. It is over. You would | :33:26. | :33:33. | |
like that. What I would like is irrelevant. Your membership is in | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
deep decline. All parties have highs and lows. In 2009 they said it is no | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
way you will win any seats in the European election. We did. And then | :33:44. | :33:53. | |
you lost them. Parties win and lose seats. The Lib Dems will be | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
annihilated. You deny you are far right. People used to say the BNP | :33:58. | :34:05. | |
were neo-Nazis. Then Nick Griffin appeared with Golden Dawn. They are | :34:06. | :34:13. | |
not neo-Nazis, they are Nazis. It is part and parcel of being in | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
politics. You have to appear with them? Of course we do, we have to | :34:20. | :34:26. | |
speak to ordinary people. I am perfectly happy speaking to you at | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
the BBC, the BBC have a terrible reputation but I am happy to be | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
here. Mr Griffin has asked me, when will the BBC apologised for trying | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
to put him in prison twice, merely for exposing a Muslim scandal. Why | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
can't Nick Griffin appear on TV and self? He would not appear. He was in | :34:46. | :34:53. | |
Syria. He literally flew out to Damascus and prevented a war. We | :34:54. | :35:00. | |
decided we would not interfere in Syria. The BBC never covered that. | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
Please do not make out we are just an ordinary political party you | :35:06. | :35:08. | |
cover like everybody else. It is completely different. All the signs | :35:09. | :35:15. | |
are, membership, performance at the polls, performance at elections, the | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
problem with your leadership is you are now going the way of the | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
National front, heading for oblivion. As I said to you before, | :35:25. | :35:30. | |
that may be the case, if all the problems we had not highlighted and | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
how we got a huge vote so many years ago, six years ago now, five years | :35:34. | :35:40. | |
ago, in 2009, if they were not around. These things are only going | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
to get worse. We are looking at a prototype Islamic republic that is | :35:45. | :35:47. | |
going to be set up in this country. That will lead to huge problems. | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
Only the British National Party are prepared to say that and deal with | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
it. Word leaked out that I was doing this interview with you before the | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
weekend. Isn't it a sign of how irrelevant you now are that not a | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
single person has turned up at New Broadcasting House this morning to | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
protest? Used to be hundreds would turn up when we said the BNP were | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
on. That is the left for you, they put the clocks forward and they | :36:17. | :36:19. | |
could not be bothered to get out of bed. I think they are still in bed. | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
Thank you. You're watching the Sunday Politics. | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now for Sunday | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
On today's show: Dorset's Gypsy and 20 minutes, | :36:32. | :36:46. | |
On today's show: Dorset's Gypsy and traveller strategy has taken three | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
years and cost over a quarter of a million pounds but so far produced | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
only one temporary stopping site. Just this week another suggested | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
location was rejected by locals. With the summer coming, are we going | :36:58. | :37:04. | |
to see more illegal encampments? More on that shortly. First, let's | :37:05. | :37:07. | |
meet the two politicians who'll be with us for the next 20 minutes. | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
Simon Letts is the Labour leader of Southampton City Council and Louise | :37:12. | :37:13. | |
Goldsmith is the Conservative leader of West Sussex County Council. | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
There was a BBC survey about the changes to housing benefit and the | :37:18. | :37:20. | |
impact it is having, the number of people who are now in arrears. | :37:21. | :37:23. | |
Louise, the Government first of all said 30% of people would move to | :37:24. | :37:30. | |
smaller properties. It looks now about six or 7%. Have they just not | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
decided to move yet? We're not a housing authority. But one of the | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
things is, in actual fact, we need some more smaller properties to move | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
people into. So you think it is a shortage of smaller properties | :37:46. | :37:48. | |
stopping people moving? To a degree. I think once we can get some smaller | :37:49. | :37:51. | |
properties built, people will be able to move in and have that | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
facility. I think that will help immensely. Is the cart not before | :37:55. | :37:57. | |
the horse here, then? The Conservative policy, but there is | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
nowhere for people to go? No, I think it is to drive through houses | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
to be getting built. So you think the policy is actually going to | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
cause those houses to be getting built? It would be one way of doing | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
it, yes. Absolutely. Simon, how is it in Southampton? You are a housing | :38:11. | :38:13. | |
authority. Yes, we have 1,400 tenants affected by what is called | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
the bedroom tax. We're obviously struggling to move them to a single | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
bedroom property because they are simply not available in our housing | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
stock in the numbers that would be required. Traditionally, we built | :38:25. | :38:31. | |
housing in the city for families, two and three`bedroom housing, a | :38:32. | :38:33. | |
relatively small amount of one`bedroom housing. We knew this | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
was going to happen. If the Government had asked us, we could | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
have told them that. Well, you could also have built the houses, as | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
Louise was saying, you could have started getting more suitable houses | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
for people rather than them having empty bedrooms. Yes, the process of | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
building houses is significantly long`term work. It cannot be put | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
into place within the snap of your fingers by a Government minister | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
suddenly changing policy. We would want to build affordable houses and | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
we are committed to building one affordable house every day during | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
our administration and we're a long way towards that. Painful situation, | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
though, isn't it? Well, it is a very difficult situation. People are | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
aware of what has been happening and what we're doing with the benefits. | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
It has not suddenly leapt out from nowhere. We have been very clear | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
about that. Right. More than 300 schools were hit in | :39:20. | :39:22. | |
our region on Wednesday as teachers staged another one`day strike. | :39:23. | :39:26. | |
They're protesting about Government policy on a range of issues from | :39:27. | :39:28. | |
performance`related pay, what they see as an excessive workload, to | :39:29. | :39:35. | |
changes to their pensions. The NUT leader Christine Blower warned there | :39:36. | :39:38. | |
could be more action later in the year if there was no progress in | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
negotiations with the Government. Joining us now is Amanda Martin, a | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
Portsmouth teacher, from the NUT. This isn't the first time you have | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
gone on strike over these issues. You are just damaging children's | :39:54. | :39:55. | |
education here, causing huge problems for parents, and yet there | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
doesn't seem to be any progress, no benefit. It isn't the first time we | :39:59. | :40:07. | |
have gone strike, and when I came on the programme before, I talked about | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
the fact that teachers go on strike as a last resort. And yes, you're | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
doing it again. We are doing it again. How much further are you? | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
Since the last time we went on strike, we have gained some | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
concessions. There has been an extra 8% put back into the pensions pot, | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
which means every teacher will get ?800 a year more for the rest of | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
their pension years. So that is one concession we have gained. We have | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
also gained the fact that Michael Gove released the workload survey, | :40:31. | :40:33. | |
which showed that teachers were doing 60 hours a week, 56 hours in | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
secondary schools. The STRB Review was released, which is a school | :40:39. | :40:41. | |
teachers' review body, which takes recommendations from the Secretary | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
of State. For the first time ever, they ignored almost all of them. And | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
when you read through the paper, it says the NUT had suggested this and | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
we gave them the research and it has gone from there. But actually, no, | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
we haven't moved on, and that is why we went on strike. But the NASUWT | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
felt that they didn't want to join you on the strike. And only 40% of | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
NUT members voted on it. So 60% of your members didn't even cast a | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
ballot. No. We haven't re`balloted since the last strike action because | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
we're still looking at the same conditions ` workload, pay, | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
pensions. And yes, we did have less numbers open strike this time. `` | :41:22. | :41:30. | |
out on strike. It is the first time since the 1980s we have been on our | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
own. And also there is a lot of intimidation. A lot of teachers feel | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
it is distressing to go on strike. It upsets pupils and parents. But we | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
did listen to parents last time when they said, you know, you have not | :41:42. | :41:44. | |
engaged us. So despite 60`hour weeks, we have been out in January, | :41:45. | :41:46. | |
February, March, weekends, doing street stalls, telling parents why | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
we are going on strike and the changes that are happening in the | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
campaign. Let's move across here. Part of this is about pensions. Why | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
do you think public pensions need to be reformed, teachers' pensions? The | :42:01. | :42:03. | |
pensions in the public sector are the last tranche of what we call | :42:04. | :42:06. | |
defined benefit schemes. Now, for a variety of reasons, they have become | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
very expensive. For almost everybody else in the country, they are | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
closed. What happened in the 1990s with defined benefit schemes is the | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
fact that Gordon Brown put the tax on the trusts and that really | :42:21. | :42:29. | |
impacted. Then you have age, people getting a lot older. We have the | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
demographics. That has caused a big problem on pensions. You have seen | :42:34. | :42:36. | |
across the field a lot of defined pensions closing. So it really is | :42:37. | :42:43. | |
bringing it into line. But if the Government wanted, if the taxpayer | :42:44. | :42:45. | |
wanted to fund these promises which have been made, the teachers' | :42:46. | :42:48. | |
pension scheme, one of the longest in existence since 1923, $46 billion | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
of money has been paid in. More has been paid in than paid out. So the | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
Government has hugely benefited from this scheme and now it does not want | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
to honour its commitment. Well, it will have existing commitments to | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
continue and it is. It is defined benefits. It is the only scheme | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
around that you know you're going to get a set percentage of the earnings | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
you have made. That is a very expensive and a very big guarantee. | :43:14. | :43:16. | |
Would you like to see that change for other public sector employees? | :43:17. | :43:19. | |
In Sussex County Council? I think there are going to be discussions | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
around all of these pensions in the future. Simon Letts, do you still | :43:23. | :43:25. | |
pay defined benefits? Yes. Southampton City Council is part of | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
the Hampshire pensions scheme, which is different from the teachers' | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
scheme, because it is based on investing into the pot which is then | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
invested in the wider economy. The teachers' scheme is you give the | :43:38. | :43:40. | |
money to Government, the Government spends it how it likes, and when you | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
retire, you get some money back from the Government, hence your figures | :43:45. | :43:47. | |
suggest teachers have put more in than they have taken out and it has | :43:48. | :43:50. | |
effectively gone to the general taxation pool and is paid out out at | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
a later date. So it is a different scheme than the more sensible and | :43:55. | :43:56. | |
rational local Government scheme, which is basically investing money | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
to make a profit to pay pensions in the future. But you would agree that | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
in this day and age, the sort of benefits that public sector | :44:04. | :44:06. | |
employees get from their pension schemes are hugely more generous, as | :44:07. | :44:08. | |
they stand, without improvements that Amanda has been fighting for. | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
Well, they are more generous, but I think that is something we should | :44:13. | :44:15. | |
continue to fight for. Because, effectively, I see... As you know, | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
as a former teacher, I worked for 20 years as a teacher, I see that as | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
deferred pay, in effect. You take a graduate job at lower than average | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
graduate wages, you put something back in as a teacher and you know | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
that because of that one of the things you get out of it is a | :44:33. | :44:35. | |
rational and reasonable pension at the end of it. Not working till the | :44:36. | :44:41. | |
age of 68? That is what we signed up for, working to 60. I would | :44:42. | :44:44. | |
challenge, you know, MPs between the ages of 60 and 68 to go into | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
secondary schools and teach a few classes and see what they felt like | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
afterwards. They should have have a go! They really should. And I think | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
that your figures straightaway say that we have paid in more. We have | :44:57. | :44:59. | |
asked the Government to do a financial review before they do any | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
of this and to see how much has been paid in and how much is going out. | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
And going back to 68, I am a parent as well as a teacher. No disrespect, | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
but I do not want my kids being taught by somebody who is 68. And | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
when I have talked to the children in my class, they say, oh, that is | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
really old, Miss! That is my grandma's age! But 68, to be on the | :45:19. | :45:24. | |
floor with schoolkids and to be inspiring secondary schoolkids, to | :45:25. | :45:27. | |
be doing all the things we need to be doing and to be doing 60`hour | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
weeks at 68 years old, it is impossible and it will mean nobody | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
will take their pension. Thank you for coming in and talking to us. | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
It's costing more than a quarter of a million pounds but so far, but | :45:40. | :45:42. | |
after three years of Dorset County Council's Gypsy and traveller | :45:43. | :45:44. | |
strategy, only one temporary stopping site has been adopted from | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
a list of 300 potential locations. It's an emotive issue and always | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
provokes heated arguments. Communities say they don't want | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
their parks and open spaces continually invaded by travellers in | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
the summer months, but as our Dorset political reporter Tristan Pascoe | :46:01. | :46:02. | |
reports, no`one can agree on where temporary sites should be located. | :46:03. | :46:14. | |
It is a game of cat and mouse across Dorset and the South West every | :46:15. | :46:19. | |
summer, with dozens of unauthorised Gypsy traveller incursions into | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
public parks and recreation grounds. Travellers know they can stay until | :46:23. | :46:25. | |
evicted, which often takes between 6`12 days. It is a huge issue, and | :46:26. | :46:33. | |
emotive issue, and last summer I tracked the unauthorised encampments | :46:34. | :46:36. | |
from the e`mails I received from the community. As the travellers moved, | :46:37. | :46:42. | |
so did the e`mail collection move from several places. Gillingham last | :46:43. | :46:49. | |
summer's illegal incursions, many playgrounds became virtual no`go | :46:50. | :46:51. | |
areas for local children and residents complained of the rubbish | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
and Miss left behind. The authorities could move groups on | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
immediately if they can provide a temporary stopping place. If we do | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
not have temporarily traveller site, we have a stand`off each committee | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
fracture. It goes on for days if not weeks. The trouble is, where every | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
site is recommended, it seems, residents protest and local | :47:15. | :47:17. | |
councillors, councils and MPs object. Three years ago, Dorset | :47:18. | :47:24. | |
County Council, working with district authorities, came up with | :47:25. | :47:27. | |
the Trixie and traveller strategy, with a firm of consultants dropped | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
300 potential sites. `` Gypsy and Traveller. Three years later, only | :47:34. | :47:40. | |
one side, this one here at Shaftesbury, has been adopted. Why | :47:41. | :47:47. | |
is it taking so long? Everyone understands why we need to manage | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
the problem. Until a site comes up near them. We have to look at it and | :47:52. | :47:58. | |
explain that this is temporary. This site that you as a village won't | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
like means that your village playing field, the school field of the | :48:05. | :48:11. | |
picnic sites of the car parks will not be invaded. And equality | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
campaigners are frustrated that progress has been so slow. There has | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
been a certain amount of prejudice. Let's be honest, three years later, | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
only one site. It is quite disappointing. Hence the problems | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
that we have had in the last number of years in terms of unauthorised | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
encampments. If you was to refuse this planning application, please | :48:35. | :48:40. | |
show. After Davies if this anti`campaign by residents, a site | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
was thrown out by planners last week. The Gypsy Council had said the | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
former landfill site was unsuitable because of methane contamination, | :48:53. | :48:56. | |
traffic pollution and flood risk. The Borough Council says it is now | :48:57. | :48:59. | |
back to square one. We have been through the process of looking for a | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
parody site and have not succeeded. Under current legislation, we cannot | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
move Gypsies and travellers outside the borough boundary. `` a temporary | :49:09. | :49:17. | |
site. We have been trying to get the law changed. That might allow us to | :49:18. | :49:22. | |
look at a site in collaboration with other authorities in Bournemouth. | :49:23. | :49:29. | |
That seems unlikely, because we have examined every possible site in | :49:30. | :49:32. | |
Bournemouth. In planning terms alone, there is not one that fulfils | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
the criteria. Your position is, there is no room for a temporary | :49:38. | :49:40. | |
traveller site in Bournemouth, and even if there was, it would never | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
get planning. It is a little suicide, I guaranteed vote loser? It | :49:46. | :49:52. | |
look at it quite like that. We try to reflect the views of residents. | :49:53. | :49:55. | |
To provide such a site is not something we can do. But without | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
being able to identify any new sites, it is likely that public | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
parks and children play areas will be taken over by unauthorised | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
encampments for this and maybe many more songs to come. | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
No wonder the public are so annoyed and furious about all of this. I | :50:15. | :50:23. | |
mean, Bournemouth and Poole College during `` are arguing about who | :50:24. | :50:26. | |
should take the travellers. The protection has not been offered to | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
children's play areas and public parks. It is spineless of councils | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
not to tackle this. Yes, frankly. We need to get together and sort this | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
out. At the end of the day, temporary sites will need to be | :50:42. | :50:44. | |
provided and we will need to work across councils and across regions | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
to identify suitable sites and to take some responsibility. Because we | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
cannot carry on with the encampments that are costing the public purse | :50:55. | :50:57. | |
and the capital money that goes into preventing encampments going on to | :50:58. | :51:05. | |
public land. But Simon, you said it was across regions. Ya been given | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
the responsibility to sort this out in Southampton. It is harder in city | :51:10. | :51:16. | |
areas because we have 200 thousand people living in a compact area. | :51:17. | :51:20. | |
Finding suitable sites for cities is more difficult than rural areas | :51:21. | :51:23. | |
where there is more space. These are temporary sites, not permanent. | :51:24. | :51:29. | |
Therefore, the significant facilities are needed. This is what | :51:30. | :51:36. | |
we have been doing in West Sussex. We have 70 illegal encampments in | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
the last year. About 80 months ago, we sat there with the police, | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
district and borough councils and said, look, how do we work together? | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
What happened was a terrific piece of work and I am so proud of it. We | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
saw it out ourselves. The districts and borrowers went out and looked at | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
various options around the country. East Sussex was one model. They came | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
back and presented it. We have grouped together and we now have | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
protocols with police and the protocol that we will be taking | :52:07. | :52:09. | |
control for the districts and borrowers of all this sort of | :52:10. | :52:16. | |
thing. `` the districts and borrowers. We have identified one | :52:17. | :52:23. | |
site in Chichester. That is difficult for the residents around, | :52:24. | :52:25. | |
but this will make a big difference. You have to sort out the protocols | :52:26. | :52:30. | |
and who will do what. And then you think it will make a difference? I | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
am very confident. It has come from the bottom up. We have listened to | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
residents and worked together. It is a cracking model. | :52:40. | :52:42. | |
Now, if you were watching last week, you'll know that as part of our | :52:43. | :52:45. | |
coverage of the European elections we've been talking to MEPs from the | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
five parties with representation in our region. We've reached the | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
halfway stage now. We've already heard from the Liberal Democrats and | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
the Conservatives, and today it's the turn of UKIP. | :52:55. | :53:06. | |
This place is much more important than it got to be and Britain will | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
be much better off out of it. But while it is still there and while we | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
are members of the European Union, it is very important that we have a | :53:14. | :53:18. | |
group of MEPs from the UK Independence Party Google reliably | :53:19. | :53:29. | |
stand up for British interests. He is the UKIP spokesman on trade and | :53:30. | :53:32. | |
has published a report criticising claims that Britain will lose jobs | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
if we leave the EU. The fact of the matter is that | :53:37. | :53:42. | |
China, in 2012, sold almost 290,000 million euros worth of goods to the | :53:43. | :53:49. | |
EU. Russian 2012 sold 223,000 million euros worth of goods. The | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
fact of the matter is that you do not need to be in a political union | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
to trade. You do not even need to have a free`trade agreement to | :53:58. | :54:03. | |
trade. Neither Russia or China have free`trade agreements. The trade | :54:04. | :54:07. | |
would continue. But Nick Clegg says that 3 million jobs are at stake if | :54:08. | :54:11. | |
Britain leads the EU. Some will say we would have more influence of the | :54:12. | :54:14. | |
British people did not waste forts on a protest party like UKIP. And we | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
should send MPs here who are determined to engage with the | :54:20. | :54:22. | |
system. What's Nick Clegg and his hangers on are doing in political to | :54:23. | :54:28. | |
call life is they are selling their politics of fear. They have run out | :54:29. | :54:31. | |
of arguments and it is the politics of fear and deceit. But you claim | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
expenses to come here and cause trouble. It sticks in a lot of | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
people's fraud. Every single MEP gets the same allowances and | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
expenses. Unlike with MPs, it is simply a third the amount of money. | :54:47. | :54:55. | |
If you take expenses, shouldn't you engage with the European Union, | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
fighting for Britain's interests? Your question, with respect, should | :55:01. | :55:06. | |
be asked differently. It is in fact, why, to the other parties, do you | :55:07. | :55:16. | |
not through all this prosperity destroying law that is destroying | :55:17. | :55:19. | |
British interests? We are the only party that opposes it. | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
They now have a lot more councils. Is that changing the character of | :55:24. | :55:28. | |
the party? We have more activists, more supporters, more everything. We | :55:29. | :55:34. | |
have an influx of enthusiastic and able people which has changed as for | :55:35. | :55:37. | |
the better. The establishment parties are not. One of the primary | :55:38. | :55:45. | |
reasons we're here is to tell the British people what is going on. One | :55:46. | :55:50. | |
of your voters `` what of your voters that see the best way of | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
getting a referendum on the US is by voting Conservative? `` on the EU. | :55:55. | :56:05. | |
David Cameron has been unreliable. We need a massive fort for UKIP in | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
the European elections in 2014. `` a massive vote. | :56:12. | :56:17. | |
Over the next two weeks, we will be hearing from Labour and then the | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
Green Party. Now our regular round`up of the | :56:23. | :56:25. | |
political week in the South in 60 seconds. | :56:26. | :56:35. | |
Would you like a pay rise? Workers on the Isle of Wight have some of | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
the worst salaries in the country. The TUC began their campaign for | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
higher wages on the island. Southern Electric agreed to freeze their | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
prices until 2016 on the same day Portsmouth Council were warning of | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
power cuts. But Labour MP Alan Whitehead argued more profits would | :56:52. | :56:57. | |
choke off investment, saying it was more important to have a stable | :56:58. | :57:01. | |
market. It has to be sustainable in the long term and that is when | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
investment will comment. Fracking is not the answer according to Caroline | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
Lucas, in court last week. She argued cheaper energy would, to cost | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
to the environment. Meanwhile, fishermen hit by winter storms are | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
still waiting for compensation. A Dorset MP says EU approval is | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
bureaucratic and slow. The paperwork, the time it takes, and | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
they won't even get the money they need anyway. Finally, all schools | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
are not so sure will get a full`time school must and deal with the NHS. | :57:32. | :57:38. | |
`` all schools in oxygen will get a full`time school nurse in a deal | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
with the NHS. I think David Cameron regrets saying | :57:45. | :57:48. | |
money would be no object. In terms of local authorities, are you | :57:49. | :57:50. | |
getting money through for repairs to roads? The intention was there and | :57:51. | :57:56. | |
it is one of those things. We have 3.5 million and are very grateful | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
for that because the gods have taken a hammering over the last year again | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
for us. We had substantial rains in the last year. And again. There was | :58:06. | :58:14. | |
a ?15 million impact on the roads. People really care about it, you saw | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
that at the last election, didn't you? Yes, we did. The point `` we | :58:18. | :58:26. | |
put millions of pounds into repairing roads in a local | :58:27. | :58:28. | |
initiative which proved fabulously popular. We now have a new programme | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
starting on the 11th where we are putting 30 million over two years on | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
to better road programmes because we know we have to invest in this. It | :58:39. | :58:41. | |
is destined to save money in the future. Is Southampton getting that | :58:42. | :58:49. | |
sort of money? No. We're getting quarter of a million pounds. It is | :58:50. | :58:55. | |
quite a small amount of money, really. How many miles of roads do | :58:56. | :59:02. | |
you have? We have 330 miles of roads. I know you have more, but | :59:03. | :59:07. | |
proportionally we're getting worse. It is a big issue on the doorsteps. | :59:08. | :59:11. | |
We did a survey before the budget and this became one of the top | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
issues. We are pledging next year to double the amount we are spending on | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
roads. That is even now we are facing difficult Financial Times. | :59:21. | :59:26. | |
That's the Sunday Politics in the South, thanks to my guests Simon | :59:27. | :59:29. | |
Letts and Louise Goldsmith. Don't forget to keep up`to`date with | :59:30. | :59:32. | |
southern politics by reading my blog ` there's the address at | :59:33. | :59:34. | |
boundaries. Sorry, run out of time. Thanks very much indeed. Andrew, | :59:35. | :59:35. | |
back to you. Now let's get more from our | :59:36. | :59:49. | |
political panel. If the BNP finished? They were never | :59:50. | :59:53. | |
spectacularly successful to begin with but one of my childhood | :59:54. | :59:57. | |
memories was a huge fuss in London about the fact that they won a few | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
council seat on the Isle of dogs back in 1993. That was enough to | :00:02. | :00:04. | |
cause a panic. As if they are falling from a great tit and I think | :00:05. | :00:07. | |
the big difference with the National front in France is that they are | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
building on decades of successful that they finished second in the | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
presence of elections in 2002, I think. And, even in the 60s, they | :00:16. | :00:21. | |
were versions of their politics. So they are building on a lot whereas | :00:22. | :00:24. | |
the BNP are working with incredibly few raw materials in this country. | :00:25. | :00:33. | |
It is interesting that the BNP does seem to be in decline in terms of | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
its membership and financially, but in France, the far right party, not | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
as far right as the BNP, but pretty far right, will probably do well in | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
the second round of the French local elections. You could say the same | :00:49. | :00:56. | |
about Golden Dawn in Greece. Parties prosper when the picture is | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
pre-rolled for them. If mainstream parties talk endlessly about | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
immigration, saying you cannot get a council house because it has gone to | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
an immigrant instead of saying it is because there are not enough council | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
houses, that creates the conditions in which the far right can thrive. | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
We are lucky that all the members of the BNP fell out with each other. As | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
extreme members of the far right and left do. You can see that with the | :01:21. | :01:27. | |
comedian in France, he has got a lot of support from people on the left | :01:28. | :01:35. | |
as well. I asked Simon Derby was here victim of a pincer movement | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
that UKIP were taken away voters and EDL has captured the Street protest. | :01:41. | :01:51. | |
Yes, and Giles still not mention that the Labour Party has got its | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
act together. They got the act together in Dagenham. Margaret Hodge | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
and Jon Cruddas did a very good job. I think UKIP would say, not a racist | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
party but they are picking up votes from people who would once have | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
voted BNP. But it is interesting the difference between Britain and | :02:11. | :02:17. | |
France. Why is it that the Front Nationale came second in 2002 when | :02:18. | :02:24. | |
they are not far right? I think they were on a five-year cycle because | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
the next election was 2007. 2002 they came second when Jean-Marie Le | :02:31. | :02:39. | |
Pen came second. They are not as far right as the BNP. Marine has put | :02:40. | :02:50. | |
them -- cleaned them up a bit. Diplomatically there is a much | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
harder vote which spreads further across the electorate in France than | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
there is in this country. This is a much more tolerant country. If | :02:59. | :03:12. | |
Marine Le Pen does well today, she will not win that many because the | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
centre-right and centre-left will always gang up against terror in the | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
second round, but it sets the tone for the European elections. It does | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
and for the next French presidential election as well. I think what she's | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
doing masterfully is combining a far right politics with what you might | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
call a far left economic politics. She's not just picking up votes from | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
xenophobes, she is picking up votes from who feel victimised from | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
globalisation. They are people who would be voting for socialists but | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
are put off by the current president. That is what I do not | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
think the British far right parties have been able to do. You sort Simon | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
Derby try to tell you that the BNP are not far right party. I think he | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
was going to say if you look at issues of protectionism, standing up | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
against globalisation, they are quite statist. That is where the | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
phrase National Socialist comes from. That is why a little bit of | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
electoral success is often a killer for far right parties. They get a | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
few council seats and then they are rubbish. They are not getting | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
people's bins collected so they become part of the system that | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
people were voting against in the first place. Lets go on to the | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
Labour Party. If you are a Labour Party supporter and you want to be | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
cheered up, you pick up the Sunday Times where you see a poll where the | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
leader is up to seven points. If you are Tory Lib Dem and you want to be | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
cheered up, you pick up the Observer, the left-wing paper, where | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
the Labour leader is still 1%. I have read in the paper that there is | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
quite a lot of of the record briefings going on at the top of the | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
Labour Party. Give us a sense of the mood. Clearly, they are unsettled. | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
One pol looks OK but there has been a run of polls where there is a lead | :05:08. | :05:17. | |
over the Tories which is closing. There are worrying number of people | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
who are what are called the 35s and they are people who thought all the | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
Labour Party needs to do is sit still because there are a number of | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
Liberal Democrat voters who hate the coalition. Because the Conservatives | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
did not get through the boundary changes they needed to win, we can | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
sit tight and it will all be fine. What a few wise old heads are | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
concerned about is they feel this has a feel of 1987 about it when the | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
Labour Party was united. They had a very good leader. The leader was | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
impressive, the party was united and then what happened? They met the | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
British people and an election. The British people said, terribly sorry, | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
you are not occupying the party political territory where we will | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
vote for you. There are some people from the Blair era who say it feels | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
a bit complacent and there may be a bit of a shock when they meet the | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
voters. We talk about people being unsettled but Ed Miliband is not | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
unsettled. His defining characteristic is you might call it | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
steadiness or you might call it a lack of agility. He could not | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
respond to the pension stuff in the budget which was thrown at him. But | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
he's very good at separating the signal from the noise. They may | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
think this will all change in me. The Tories may be on the back foot | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
after the European elections. He has the ability to set the political | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
weather. He did it with the price freeze. There is no doubt that Mr | :06:49. | :06:56. | |
Davey would not be referring these energy companies to the competition | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
authorities if it had not been for that speech by the Labour leader. | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
And we read today he has come up with another policy which will be | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
attention grabbing to cut student tuition fees. It is easy to forget | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
that before he announced the price freeze he was in as much vertical | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
trouble as he is now. I think the Labour poll lead will expand up to | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
five or 6% by the summer, assuming the Tories do badly. The question | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
is, is five or 6% enough? Nick through the analogy with 1987. This | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
reminds me of the Conservatives in 2009/10. You have a steadily sinking | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
poll lead, differences in what campaign they should be running and | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
personal animosity behind the scenes. It led to them throwing away | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
an election which seemed to be winnable. There is an important | :07:50. | :07:56. | |
difference with the 1980s which was because you did not know when the | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
election would be. Will it be in 87 or 88? They do not need to make up | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
their mind until next year. What they are telling the pollsters now, | :08:06. | :08:08. | |
we do not like this government because of course, you do not like | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
the government. But next January or February they will be making up | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
their minds. Is there a lot of animosity among the leading Labour | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
figures behind-the-scenes? It must be personal or tactical because | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
there are not big ideological differences between them, is there? | :08:27. | :08:33. | |
Yes and no. What is striking is how little support Miliband gets from | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
the shadow cabinet. He does not have outriders. That has been a | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
continuous theme. Said he feels he is on his own? That they feel they | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
do not get support from him. There was a column by Jenni Russell saying | :08:48. | :08:54. | |
he is distant and detached. And Andrew Walmsley touched on this in | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
the Observer. One of the divisions is Ed versus Ed. There is a terrible | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
structural problem between those two. It is a real problem. Ed | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
Miliband believes Ed Balls has not done enough to get economic red | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
ability. Ed Balls believes Ed Miliband is making airy fairy | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
speeches and it will not cut with the electorate. Neither Mr Cameron | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
nor Mr Miller band took part in the debate which happened earlier this | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
week between the Lib Dems and UKIP. We have got another one coming up on | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
the BBC on Wednesday night. Let's remind ourselves of what happened in | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
last week's debate. I will ask Nick to open the batting. | :09:39. | :09:46. | |
We are better off in Europe... Frankly not working any more. A | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
referendum on Europe. I agree with you. I agree with you. If you can | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
read the small print. Pull up the drawbridge, pool drawbridge up... We | :10:00. | :10:08. | |
have 485 million people... It is simply not true! Not true. Not true. | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
Not true. Identical with Nick. I don't agree with Nick. Based on | :10:15. | :10:23. | |
facts, facts, the facts, facts, the facts... Thank God we did not listen | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
to you. The food is getting better here. Jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs. You | :10:29. | :10:36. | |
have never had a proper job. Great not little England. Good night. | :10:37. | :10:43. | |
I think it is seven o'clock BBC Two. Helen, what was the outcome of that | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
and how do we mark our card for this week? It was not a great time for | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
pundits. Everybody called the debate for Nick and then they said | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
actually, we think it has gone the other way. Consensus emerged later | :10:59. | :11:06. | |
on that Nick Clegg made a difficult argument. I think the most important | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
thing Nigel Farage said was he distinguished out the immigration | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
policy by saying we're not just closing day over, we want people to | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
come, we just do not want mass EU immigration. That is an important | :11:19. | :11:21. | |
thing for him to say to get away from the echoes of the far right. I | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
suspect Nick Clegg will not ask us to read the small print. That was 11 | :11:27. | :11:33. | |
turn he took. It compounded his reputation for being sneaky. I | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
slightly disagree about the pundits. I say this as someone who thought | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
far it would win. -- Nigel Farage would win. The fact that the public | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
disagree with you and the public favoured Nigel Farage does not mean | :11:49. | :11:56. | |
the public were wrong. The question is, who is going to tune in for the | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
second one? What is the answer to that? Phil Collins argument is a man | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
who is on 8% is fantastic. It is a binary choice in this debate. | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
Clearly they need to brush up on opposite areas. Nigel Farage needs | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
to brush up on facts and Nick Clegg needs to brush up on the motions | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
because he did not connect very well. Where Nick Clegg may go after | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
Nigel Farage is when the -- when he said the EU has blood on its hands | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
with Ukraine. He then came back to talk about the vanity of EU foreign | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
policy and said European Union had made what was going on in Syria | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
worse. It is one thing to say I do not think the UK should be part of | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
the joint European foreign policy, it is part of another thing to say | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
that Europe which will act with or without the UK is responsible for | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
blood on the streets of Kiev and also responsible for exacerbating | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
the Civil War in Syria. Maybe an hour is too long for Nigel Farage's | :12:56. | :13:03. | |
shtick? That may be the case but Nick Clegg has precedence. He does | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
that show and he has had to deal with the worst thing with dealing | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
with what is thrown at him so he has honed his view consistently. We will | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
see what happens in part two. That's all for this week. The Daily | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
Politics is on BBC Two at lunchtime every day this week. I'll be here | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
next week at the usual time of 11 o'clock. Remember if it's Sunday, | :13:24. | :13:25. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:26. | :13:32. |