22/01/2017 Sunday Politics South


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It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.


Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US


President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very


frank" conversations with the new and controversial


Speaking of the 45th President of America,


we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold


in store for Britain and the rest of the world.


And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should


have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask


Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott what Labour will do next.


In the south, the government's got a new funding formula for schools it


says is fairer than the old one, but is it?


We'll hear from schools who will actually be worse off.


And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three


journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be


relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality -


and their willingness to come to the studio


It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer


and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be


tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle


So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning.


She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit,


but she was also asked about a story on the front of this


It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired


from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June


The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons


Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking


The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons


It was about whether or not we should renew Trident,


whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident.


That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons.


That's what the House of Commons voted for.


He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent


There are tests that take place all the time, regularly,


What we were talking about in that debate that took place...


I'm not going to get an answer to this.


Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the


front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister


wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but


the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all


questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all.


Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You


read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr


four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went


into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion


replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it


have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons.


If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are


matters of national security. There's nothing more important in


that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing.


End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a


good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she


is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions,


and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know


and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider


point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident,


suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run,


because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again.


But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent


awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the


missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her


comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often


struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and


we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the


missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000.


What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests


they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles


work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have


known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job


on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some


would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people


from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by


mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing


as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are


going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime


Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on


Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If


anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call!


So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing


to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th


President of the United States he certainly did do it his way.


Not for him the idealistic call for national unity -


instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering


attack on the dark state of the nation and the political


class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach


from the campaign trail to the White House.


Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how


First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange


Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched


I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear...


The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations,


the speech tougher then any previous incoming president.


From this day forth, it's going to be only America first.


In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC.


Opponents made their voices heard around the world too.


The President, who'd criticised the work of


the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA.


There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community


And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled


the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump.


So, as you heard there, President Trump used his


inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first"


in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect


He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and


American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key


parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care


act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global


warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate


Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would


restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also


said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with


threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a


bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and


order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building


the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the


first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who


is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch -


he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's


choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's


just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin -


he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I


made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval


office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union


integration. What are the implications of that? First of all,


a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime


Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already,


the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office.


Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an


act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be


oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral


or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone


in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the


unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing


called the west that America has led since the end of World War II,


creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These


institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was


at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and


prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When


something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the


consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new


president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that


so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and


institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has


argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more


involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process


with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama


stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the


world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers


have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That


power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are


foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself


around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some


may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself,


and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald


Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be


more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are


tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are


still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr


Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that


clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe


in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral


relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a


president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly


critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary


of State, national security, do you think that will temper this


anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation?


I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world


will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of


State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge


him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most


successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is


already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means


you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these


institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of


millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about


is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such


an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian


tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first.


The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he


said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in


front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the


solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That


emphasis is going to change American life, including American


International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't


mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our


national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's


inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the


White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a


difference there. He also said something else in the address - that


protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is


no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting


the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually


think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If


you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican


senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover


administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see


how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is


a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in


bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's


also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this


election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history


and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a


mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more


trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the


world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's


leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great


businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is


debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from


the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to


reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both


lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will


walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese


from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do


that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war


between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most


important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't


lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when


you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China


the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and


Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos.


Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he


hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to


him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting


a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is


why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United


States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point


of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern


Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned


to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat


economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think


Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown


herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in


Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of


the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about


dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has


another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the


American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone,


including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find


anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more


important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like


preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese


and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear


deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff


and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we


are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving


into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that


ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his


inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he


didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They


are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's


easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the


United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things


that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of


State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful


creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming


and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to


create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final


word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up


America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things


that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call.


His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's


abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going


to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that


realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked


on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90


days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues.


Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues.


So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week -


perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer


claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit


wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU.


To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic -


to her opponents it was full of contradictions


Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how


There are speeches, and there are speeches.


Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading


to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms


This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade


in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states.


It should give British companies the maximum


operate within European markets and let European businesses do


She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal,


We want to test what people think about what she's just said.


Do we have any of our future negotiating


As the European Parliament voted for its new


president, its chief negotiator sounded off.


Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept


it, we're going to make from Britain a sort


of free zone or tax haven, I


The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's


rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger.


We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but


that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership.


Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic


leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail?


The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page.


For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven.


I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming


an independent country again, with control of our own laws,


I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because


There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and


Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners?


There will, at the end of this deal process,


so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but


We take the view as Liberal Democrats that


if this process started with democracy last June,


We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them


Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all


watching it in a small room somewhere?


Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that


somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal


with the European Union didn't work, we would move


into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the


I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what


The Labour leader suggested he'd tell


his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if


Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among


Finally, do we have anyone from big business here?


Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic


Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been


anticipating since the referendum result,


particularly around the


I think what we've also seen today is the Government's


willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I


Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you


have to be pretty tough to get what you want.


Although some business people on the slopes speculated


about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain.


We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn,


but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit


Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.


People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are


four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the


referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that


nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't


have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people,


millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better.


However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to


parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the


triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is


what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our


policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We


don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what


legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what


amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block


it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we


will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are


too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU


migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer


to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would


you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how


we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the


Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those


amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain


whether they voted to leave remain want answered.


When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I


can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation.


But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard


this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on


Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead


of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially,


when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the


whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip


on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote


that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against


it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a


three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember


when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these


Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just


another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds


voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country


and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous


a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a


three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you


believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think


that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority.


What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her


priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should


remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the


economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is


Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market?


Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they


come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to


remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that,


ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the


jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief.


Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there.


Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has


made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's


position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that


you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union,


including being a member of the single market, without


responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement,


is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is


that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a


member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it.


Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting


negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it


Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well,


if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has


unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is!


It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it


Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's


position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how


the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs


union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove


catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do


accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own


free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The


ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to


protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about


free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will


get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the


NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If


she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the


customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for


Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February.


I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating


that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would


that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats,


so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you.


You're watching the Sunday Politics.


We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now


Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead,


when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James


about the government's new industrial strategy and that


crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit.


My name is Peter Henley. Politics where you are.


On today's show, fairer funding for schools.


The government's new funding formula was meant to end the postcode


lottery of how much cash each school gets but in Oxfordshire more than


First let's meet the two victims, sorry, politicians who will be


Julia Reid is UKIP MEP for the Southwest of England.


Keith House is the Lib Dem leader of the council.


Local government under a huge amount of financial pressure and we see


A referendum to increase their council tax by 15%.


When I first heard the story I thought someone was trying


The idea of a Conservative council putting up council tax by 10 times


Surrey is in a dreadful situation, worse than many councils


It's reckless because the Chancellor of the electorate decided to put


It's a cry for help I think which could be a great help


for all of local government because local government has


been treated very badly by government over recent years.


Promises of help have never really come.


All we do is we see money moved around rather than new money come


to us and we got a big big problem particularly with adult social care


It'll only be solved by national funding


which is what the Liberal Democrats have been saying.


Right, although local solutions is what national


Julia, in general UKIP like referendums.


This one, a million pounds they think it might cost.


We think this is just being done for political reasons.


I pretty much agree with what Keith said.


You don't think people should have 15% increase even someone


I think what will happen is, as you suggested,


I'm a town councillor in the south-west where the shire


counties in particular around my area have had


We are in a position, that we are going to have to put


up our precept and it's very unpopular because people


The majority of people are struggling.


It's the idea everyone in Surrey is rich.


There is lots of people on average incomes struggling in Surrey just


But the government keep taking money away, which I think is the problem.


But do people understand, when there is a local government


thing we can't afford to provide these services because they're


receiving less money from national government?


People have lost libraries and various other things.


Our library most of the time it's empty and we have to trust people


to go in and borrow books when there's nobody there.


All councils I think are finding real difficulty.


It's still another four months until this year's local


government elections, but there's already


a new administration in power at the Isle of Wight Council.


That's because on Monday the leader, the deputy leader and another


councillor from the executive group all of them independents, resigned.


They said some councillors were too concerned with


It comes after a fairly stormy few years for the island independents.


They've had defections and resignations, but they got there.


Joining me now from the island is Jonathan Bacon who, until Monday,


I suppose I should say congratulations for getting as far


as you did because people didn't think the independent group


would stay together but why throw in the towel at the final furlong?


I think the situation was getting intolerable.


At the moment, national government is imposing death by 1,000 cuts


on local government and really it's nigh on impossible to do anything


and what you need in that situation is the ability to stand firm


and united against government but, unfortunately, in our council,


we had too money people who were more interested


in politicking and bickering rather than working together.


They just made the situation intolerable.


And we saw it on Wednesday night in the full council meeting.


I know quite a lot of people who followed my decision who never


normally watch a full council meeting did so, and were actually


Two hours were spent arguing about whether to have a new leader,


whether to appoint a certain committee chairman, leaving only one


When you've got the sort of pressures and cuts being imposed


by central government, to behave in that way is farcical.


It made my situation impossible and intolerable.


How had you tried to stop that happening?


You wanted to put people before politics.


I think we just kept doing as much as we could but it's the other


people who did not want to behave in that way who did not


Well, I think that's probably a good thing


because if they are going to stop trying to do the right thing,


trying to achieve anything, then they should take


the responsibility for what is happening.


So there's a Conservative group now and that surely is worse as far


Aren't you just playing games, putting them in just


before the election hoping they will be unpopular?


I'm sure some people will think that, but I think it's about time


those people who have been denying any responsibility for the situation


when it's their government who are creating the problems should


actually stand up and we can see are they going to actually now work


for the people of the Isle of Wight and challenge what government


is doing rather than just rolling over and accepting the situation


We've had an MP who, over the past few months,


has said the island should cut its cloth.


I was very disturbed to see the new council leader Dave Stewart


said we have to live within our means.


But what's got to be recognised and worked against is the fact that


you can't do that if you don't have sufficient means.


I think the situation in Surrey shows quite starkly that


that's the situation across local government.


We felt it particular harshly on the Isle of Wight


and particularly harshly when you've got some councillors who simply


won't accept that and decide to play politics rather than deal


Two bits of politics business that was happening when you left,


The High Court action over school holidays for John Platt.


Do you think that Isle of Wight Council will now abandon that?


And the devolution proposals together with Southampton


Portsmouth, is there any way forward there?


I can take both of those if you like.


In terms of the school attendance issue, what we are dealing


with there is simply a legal definition of what


It's been played out as being about whether someone


should go on holiday or not, when it's not.


The Department of Education have taken over the case now


because they are concerned at the lack of clarity in the law


about when can school attendance provisions come into force.


Without doubt, ask any educational professional,


it's very difficult to organise the classroom system and it's very


difficult for schools to operate when they don't know if they have


any power over the children turning up to school or not.


You think the new administration won't pursue this then?


I think they need to have a conversation with the Department


of Education because the only reason it's got to the stage it's


at is because the Department of Education have said


that they want that case to be taken to the Supreme Court.


We recognise the cost issues as an administration last year


and weren't going to take it any further but the Department


of Education said, no, we'll pick up the tab.


We think it's important, we want to take it forward


and they are now party to the case so I think it's going to be


a matter of the Conservative administration talking


Remember, of course, as a result of what was done


by the previous Conservative administration, the Isle


of Wight Council is still under a direction from the ministry


to improve educational standards and attendance as part of that.


We have had a lot of kickbacks and it was depressing last November


to visit the Secretary of State and be told we will put


you in the in-tray, but not taking you any further for now.


An awful lot of work had been done about that.


It will be interesting again to see what the new administration


in the Isle of Wight do about that, because they have been


Indeed, last September-October, there were trying to block


us being able to make proposal to the Secretary of State just


Are they going to contest government policy that way?


It will be interesting to see because if they do that,


hopefully that would indicate they might contest government policy


Again, that's something we need to see what's going to happen.


Jonathan Bacon, thanks very much for joining us.


Just quickly, do you think devolution is dead?


We are very much part of the deal, South Hampshire


It's the financial answer to the Isle of Wight, devolution,


because it's the only way of solving the funding crisis across


Southampton and the island and the rest of Hampshire too.


It's about the ability to borrow long-term against business rates,


deal with the infrastructure problem we have got and take proper control


of our own services, so I very much hope devolution isn't dead.


It is the best answer for the island, the best


There is a UKIP councillor on the island and one


Do think UKIP in general would support more devolution?


Probably but it would depend on the circumstances I think.


It does look like it's going away, no new money coming


This is the answer to the no money point because devolution gives local


authorities collectively the power to sort their own things out


And work in a collaborative way to get investment into the patch.


It gets the government off the hook and why government is so keen


on devolution but requires local authorities to together


so the Isle of Wight, we need them on board.


The captain has jumped ship, but thank you anyway,


Schools in many areas of our region had been complaining for years


that the funding formula the government uses to calculate how


much cash they get has been unfairly weighted against them.


In an effort to address that, the government has come up


with a new formala but does it get any better marks than the old one?


Our Oxfordshire reporter Beth and Phillips has been finding out


Our Oxfordshire reporter Bethan Phillips has been finding out


why schools in some parts of the South have been feeling


It's the ultimate political football.


And just like the beautiful game, it's all about the money.


Oxfordshire schools have traditionally been in the lower half


of the league when it comes to school funding.


Last year, the government promised to tackle unfairness in the system.


Hopes were raised that schools here would be in for a big win,


but actually, nearly half of schools are going to lose money


133 schools will get more funding but overall,


funding is only going by 0.8% for Oxfordshire schools,


Calls for fairer funding are nothing new.


Schools in West Sussex even lobbied the Prime Minister about it,


saying they might have to cut back on the school week.


MPs and teachers across the South have known for a long time


that their schools were losing out to London.


Our schools in Poole and Dorset were amongst the worst funded


Dorset was 11th worst and there was no rhyme or reason for it.


If there had been an explanation, because Dorset is thought


to be a wealthier area, I could have accepted it.


But when the new formula was revealed in Oxfordshire,


We are facing an unsustainable cut to our budgets, and I'm


And for struggling school smaller schools


Potentially, yes, it means closures, but I just don't see how that


And I think there will be a huge political backlash before


At this primary School in Henley, it will lose ?11,000 over two years.


Head teacher Jacky Steele said it could mean losing a member of staff.


If we are constantly stretched, and constantly having


to give something up, which essentially is what's


happening with lack of funding and resources, then it's going to be


even harder to achieve the results and the standards


The bar is being raised ever higher and we are stretching further.


That is a really big ask of school leaders.


At the other end of the funding league table is Windmill


It is getting a 2.8% boost under the new formula.


But headteacher Lynn Knapp says that money will only


I think it's about maintaining our staff.


Where we were looking to going into deficit,


we can't employ an extra staff member, maybe we'll have


to make redundancies, so by having a standstill figure


or an increase we are just protecting the staff we've got.


We're certainly not looking at increasing our staffing level.


While some Oxfordshire schools feel left on the subs


bench by the new formula, schools in Dorset have won


MP Michael Tomlinson says it's good news.


In my constituency alone, mid Dorset North Poole,


it's an increased funding overall of ?1 million for our schools,


I used to be a school governor myself.


I know how carefully governors and schools look at the individual


budgets and this will make a significant difference


The Department for Education insists the new formula will mean an end


to the postcode lottery in school funding, but in Oxfordshire,


fears remain that for some schools losing out, it could be game over.


Julia, the system had been creaking, hadn't it?


The data was hugely old for these different schools and schools


with very similar catchments in areas were getting hugely


But there will always have to be winners and losers.


It is a difficult decision, isn't it?


We've heard about Dorset, but the majority of our counties


in I think rural areas, historically, for whatever reason,


they've ended up with a lot less money than urban areas.


I'm not suggesting that to take money away from schools


is a good thing, we've heard, but obviously something had to be


done about rural areas because they weren't getting


What would UKIP's solution have been, put more money into it?


Hopefully, when we've left the European Union and we don't


At the moment, 350 million is going to the NHS.


Our figure is we would save between ?200-?220 million a week.


And some of that money would be able to go on issues such as education.


Getting rid of extra care at home, some will go on schools.


The aid budget, you still want to reduce that?


Given leaving the EU is going to make as poor as a country,


there's going to be less money to go to schools and the health service.


The problem with education funding is we've had nationalised


Every decision, every bit of school funding have been taken by minister


The real answer is proper devolution.


School funding, alongside health funding, handed back


to local communities through their local


It's the only way to solve these issues so local people get


the balance between affluent and less affluent.


This could be a whole new line for UKIP, surely?


Pull us out of national government as well as out of Europe.


Why isn't Paul Nuttall going more strongly for this?


Is it because he has different principles to Nigel Farage?


I think on the main issues Nigel and Paul are straight


down the line the same which is UKIP principles,...


There will be more money when we leave Europe


I don't see UKIP's role in local government in terms of deciding


which money goes to particular project and how loudly


at government to say this isn't working.


Actually, where we are on councils in sufficient numbers,


we've managed to make quite a good saving.


We're against this cabinet system lots of councils have.


UKIP in local government is falling apart.


councillors four years ago and only have seven left mouthfuls of three


have gone, one's gone to the Tories, one has become independent and one


resigned from is it for not turning up to meetings so UKIP don't


have a record in local government because there's no consistency.


What is your role now in Brussels and Strasbourg question you're


being paid by the taxpayer to be there and yet we are now leaving


While we are still in the EU, we need to have MEPs


there to make sure the British people actually know


Until UKIP actually sent MEPs to Brussels,


we were just kept in the ignorance and actually the grand plan


of what European ever closer union and harmonisation meant,


so we are still there and UKIP MEPs, since this latest legislature,


we all turn up, we attend our committees, we vote.


Nigel Farage has got a history of not turning up to committees.


Being paid for a job but not doing it.


At one point, there was very little reason for us to turn up because...


You are being paid to turn up and argue a case.


It's exactly the same for not turning up to


Hampshire county council and having to resign.


It was deemed we would be better off working hard in the UK.


They won the referendum at the end of the day.


The real issue now is we are getting a deal which is not


People were told we'll leave the European Union but stay


in the single market, stay in the customs union.


Can I just say, in defence, of Nigel Farage, Nigel came off


Now, our regular roundup of the political week


A guardsman, Councillor, a queen and a cow.


An innovative photocall for Reading's royal blue buses,


the new fleet which runs on farm waste.


More innovation and crowd funding campaigns to give every


MP a copy of Brexit, what the hell happens now?


If we are going to move ahead with this, we need to be careful.


Perhaps Hampshire police could try crowd funding.


PCC Michael Lane says they are 25% underfunded


Current national formula with two thirds money is not fit


more female scientists by using gender blind applications.


Those hiring people won't see names on shortlists


And a scheme to get more jobs for homeless people has been backed


to do more after discovering one of his employees was sleeping rough.


That's one practical thing that you could do.


the people hiring don't know who's who.


It would be interesting to see if it did.


The evidence is it works in recruitment.


If you don't know things about people, you're more likely


The evidence is, for example, ethnic minority candidates are less


likely to get them simply because people at the name.


Some would say that a more fundamental problem and we should


stop boys being given Lego at Christmas.


I think irrespective of what people say, there is a difference for that


I myself know in science female scientists, because I'm


a biochemist, we approach work completely differently.


The key issue is to respect individuality.


Both of you, thank you very much for being on the programme this week.


have to do this. Thank you to you both.


What exactly is the government's industrial strategy?


Will ministers lose their supreme court battle over Brexit, and,


Well, tomorrow Theresa May is launching the government's


industrial strategy - and to talk about that we're joined


by the Business Minister, Margot James - welcome to the show.


When you look at what has already been released in advance of the


Prime Minister's statement, it was embargoed for last night, it's not


really an industrial strategy, it's just another skills strategy, of


which we have had about six since the war, and our skills training is


among the worst in Western Europe? There will be plenty more to be


announced tomorrow in what is really a discussion document in the


preparation of an industrial strategy which we intend to launch


properly later in the year. Let's look at skills. You are allocating


117 of funding to establish institutes of technology. How many?


The exact number is to be agreed, but the spend is there, and it will


be on top of what we are doing to the university, technical


colleges... How many were lit bio create? We don't know exactly, but


we want to put them in areas where young people are performing under


the national average. But if you don't know how many, what is the


basis of 170 million? That is the amount the Treasury have released.


The something that is very important, we are agreed we need to


devote more resources to vocational training and get it on a par with


academic qualifications. I looked on the website of my old university,


the University of Glasgow, the Russell group universities. Its


spending budget every year is over 600 million. That's one University.


And yet you have a mere 170 million foreign unspecified number of


institutes of technology. It hasn't got equality with the academics? You


have to remember that just as you have quoted figures from Glasgow


University there are further education colleges all over the


country. The government is already spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But


also, we are going to be adding... This is new money that is all to the


good, because we are already spending a lot. We have already


created 2 million more apprentices since 2010. That many are not in


what we would call the stem skills, and a lot come nowhere near what the


Dutch, Germans and Austrians would have. I'm not clear how another 170


million would do. You said it is more than skills. In what way is


this industrial strategy different from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne


did before? It's different because it is involving every single


government department, and bringing together everything that government


does in a bid to make Britain more competitive as it disengages from


the European Union. That is what the last Labour government did. They


will much more targeted interventions. Under the Labour


government, the auto industry got some benefit. A few more sectors


were broached under the coalition government. This is all about


communities all over the country, some of whom have fallen behind in


terms of wage growth and good jobs. The Prime Minister has already


announced 2 billion as a research and development priority in specific


technologies, robotics, artificial intelligence, medical technology,


satellites... So you are doing what has been done before. There is


nothing new about this. Wait until tomorrow, because there will be some


new strands emerging. It is the beginning of the dialogue with


industry and with workers, and the responses will be invited up until


April. That will inform a wider strategy that goes beyond skills. I


have moved on to beyond them. I'm slightly puzzled as to how the


government knows where to invest in robotics, when it can't even provide


the NHS with a decent IT system. Discuss. I have to say I find it


bizarre that the government is making an announcement about an


amount of money and don't know where it's going. This is typical of all


governments over all political shoes, which is total disregard for


technical education, so different from Germany, who actually invest in


the technological side. Germany has a long history. We want to emulate


some of the best of what German companies do. Siemens sponsor


primary schools, for example. We want to get a dialogue on with


business. We don't want to decide where this money is going. By the


way, it was 4.7 billion that the government has agreed to invest in


science and research, which is the most significant increase in


decades. Can you remind us what happened in Northern Ireland, when


the government invested money in state-of-the-art technology for


energy? No one needs to be reminded of that, and that is not what we are


doing. We are inviting business and industry to advise where that money


is best spent. That's very different from government deciding that a


particular technology is for the future. The government's chief


scientific adviser has determined that we will invest a huge amount in


battery technology, which should benefit the electric car industry,


and... This is taxpayers' money. Who gets it? Ultimately, business will


get it, but often only when there is a considerable amount of private


sector finance also drawn in. But who is held to account? Various


government departments at local authorities will hold this list to


account. A lot of it is about releasing private capital as well.


Thank you very much. This week, the Supreme Court, I think we know the


ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the expectation is that the judges will


say Parliament will have to vote to trigger. Is this all much ado about


nothing? Parliament will vote to trigger, and the government will win


in the Lords and the Commons by substantial majorities, and it will


be triggered? Completely. We've known that. Parliament is voted.


Everyone is pretty confident that the Supreme Court will uphold the


High Court's decision and say it has to go to MPs. There will be a bit of


toing and froing among MPs on amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's


slightly car crash interview there. The Lib Dems may throw something in,


but we will trigger Article 50 by the end of March. If it also says


that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast should be picked up,


that could complicate matters. Absolutely. That could delay the


planned triggering of Article 50 before the end of March. Not what


they say about the Westminster Parliament, because it is clear that


it was. I never understood the furore about that original judgment,


because every MP made it clear they wouldn't block it. Even though Diane


Abbott was evasive on several fronts, she said they wouldn't block


it. You are right, if they give a vote, or give some authorisation for


the Scottish Parliament and other devolved assemblies, that might


delay the whole sequence. That is the only significant thing to watch


out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs May goes to Washington. It will be


another movie in the making! I would suggest that she has a tricky line


to follow. She has got to be seen to be taking advantage of the fact that


there is a very pro-British, pro-Brexit president in the Oval


Office, who I am told is prepared to expend political capital on this.


But on the other hand, to make sure that she is not what we used to call


Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It is very difficult, and who would not


want to be a fly on the wall in that meeting! I can't think of anyone in


the world who would despise Mr Trump more than Mrs May, and for him, he


dislikes any woman who does not look like a supermodel, no disrespected


Mrs May. Most of it is actually anti-EU, and I think we should


capitalise it. Let's get the Queen to earn her money, roll out the red


carpet, invite him to dinner, spend the night, what ever we need...


Trump at Balmoral! Here is the issue, because the agenda is, as we


heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that this is not an administration that


has much time for the EU, EU integration or Germany. I think


Germany will be the second biggest loser to begin with. They will not


even give a date for Angela Merkel to meet the president. This is an


opportunity for Mrs May... It is a huge. It could sideline talks of the


punishment beating from Germany. The Trump presidency has completely


changed the field on Brexit. Along came Donald Trump, and Theresa May


has this incredible opportunity here. Not of her making, but she has


played her cards well. To an officially be the EU emissary to


Washington, to get some sort of broker going. That gives us huge


extra leveraged in the Brexit negotiations. People around the


world think Germany as a currency manipulator, that it is benefiting


from an underpriced euro, hence the huge surplus it runs of America, and


they think it is disgraceful that a country that runs a massive budget


surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP on defence, and America runs a


massive deficit and needs to spend a lot more. He's going for Germany.


And what a massive shift. I think Obama was quite open, in a farewell


interview, that he felt closer to Merkel than any other European


leader. And Jamie kind of reflected that in our discussion. Yes, that's


very interesting discussion. I think she was the last person he spoke to


in the White House, Obama. And now you are getting the onslaught from


Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery is dangerous, though. Blair was


hypnotised by it and was too scared to criticise Bush, because he wanted


to be seen in that light, and we know where that led. Cameron


similarly with Obama, which presented him with problems, as


Obama didn't regard him as his number one pin up in Europe. I would


put a note of caution in there about the Thatcher - Reagan parallel.


Everything Trump is doing now is different from before, so Mrs May


should not have any of these previous relationships in her mind.


That is not entirely true. Donald Trump aches to be the new Ronald


Reagan. He may be impeached first! He sees her as the new Margaret


Thatcher, and that may her leveraged with him. Thank you.


We'll be back here at the same time next week, and you can catch up


on all the latest political news on the Daily Politics,


In the meantime, remember - if it's Sunday,


It's just pain, but it doesn't feel like pain,


it feels much more violent, dark and exciting.


Join Michael Buerk as he explores the dishes fit for kings and queens.


When it comes to extravagance, few monarchs can compete with George IV.


If that was for breakfast, I dread to think what he had for dinner.


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