Browse content similar to 22/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very | :00:42. | :00:43. | |
frank" conversations with the new and controversial | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
Speaking of the 45th President of America, | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
in store for Britain and the rest of the world. | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott what Labour will do next. | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
In the south, the government's got a new funding formula for schools it | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
says is fairer than the old one, but is it? | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
We'll hear from schools who will actually be worse off. | :01:20. | :01:33. | |
And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be | :01:37. | :01:38. | |
relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality - | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
and their willingness to come to the studio | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning. | :02:02. | :02:12. | |
She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit, | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
but she was also asked about a story on the front of this | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons | :02:28. | :02:36. | |
Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
It was about whether or not we should renew Trident, | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident. | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons. | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
That's what the House of Commons voted for. | :02:56. | :02:57. | |
He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
There are tests that take place all the time, regularly, | :03:03. | :03:10. | |
What we were talking about in that debate that took place... | :03:11. | :03:18. | |
I'm not going to get an answer to this. | :03:19. | :03:25. | |
Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the | :03:26. | :03:32. | |
front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but | :03:37. | :03:43. | |
the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all. | :03:47. | :03:54. | |
Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion | :04:10. | :04:16. | |
replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons. | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
matters of national security. There's nothing more important in | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing. | :04:35. | :04:41. | |
End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions, | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident, | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run, | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again. | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and | :05:42. | :05:48. | |
we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000. | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles | :06:02. | :06:09. | |
work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have | :06:10. | :06:17. | |
known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call! | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th | :07:10. | :07:11. | |
President of the United States he certainly did do it his way. | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
Not for him the idealistic call for national unity - | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering | :07:18. | :07:19. | |
attack on the dark state of the nation and the political | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
from the campaign trail to the White House. | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange | :07:36. | :07:43. | |
Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched | :07:44. | :07:52. | |
I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear... | :07:53. | :07:59. | |
The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations, | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
the speech tougher then any previous incoming president. | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
From this day forth, it's going to be only America first. | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC. | :08:16. | :08:40. | |
Opponents made their voices heard around the world too. | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
The President, who'd criticised the work of | :08:45. | :08:46. | |
the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA. | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled | :08:55. | :09:06. | |
the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump. | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
So, as you heard there, President Trump used his | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first" | :09:19. | :09:20. | |
in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and | :09:24. | :09:40. | |
American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch - | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's | :10:44. | :10:45. | |
just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin - | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I | :10:49. | :10:59. | |
made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval | :11:00. | :11:06. | |
office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
integration. What are the implications of that? First of all, | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already, | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office. | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral | :11:41. | :11:51. | |
or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
called the west that America has led since the end of World War II, | :12:07. | :12:14. | |
creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These | :12:15. | :12:23. | |
institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has | :12:57. | :13:04. | |
argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process | :13:09. | :13:16. | |
with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself, | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that | :14:21. | :14:30. | |
clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe | :14:31. | :14:38. | |
in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
of State, national security, do you think that will temper this | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation? | :15:03. | :15:10. | |
I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about | :15:52. | :15:53. | |
is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such | :15:54. | :16:03. | |
an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian | :16:04. | :16:12. | |
tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first. | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
emphasis is going to change American life, including American | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't | :16:37. | :16:45. | |
mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's | :16:51. | :16:53. | |
inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a | :17:00. | :17:02. | |
difference there. He also said something else in the address - that | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is | :17:09. | :17:15. | |
no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually | :17:22. | :17:23. | |
think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If | :17:24. | :17:31. | |
you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover | :17:38. | :17:46. | |
administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this | :18:05. | :18:11. | |
election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history | :18:12. | :18:18. | |
and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a | :18:19. | :18:26. | |
mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's | :18:36. | :18:38. | |
leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both | :18:57. | :19:03. | |
lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will | :19:04. | :19:06. | |
walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't | :19:25. | :19:27. | |
lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and | :19:38. | :19:53. | |
Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos. | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to | :20:06. | :20:13. | |
him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting | :20:14. | :20:16. | |
a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think | :20:46. | :20:52. | |
Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone, | :21:23. | :21:24. | |
including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find | :21:25. | :21:31. | |
anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear | :21:43. | :21:49. | |
deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his | :22:07. | :22:14. | |
inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he | :22:15. | :22:16. | |
didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to | :22:54. | :22:56. | |
create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call. | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going | :23:21. | :23:28. | |
to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90 | :23:37. | :23:43. | |
days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues. | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues. | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week - | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer | :23:56. | :23:57. | |
claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU. | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic - | :24:04. | :24:05. | |
to her opponents it was full of contradictions | :24:06. | :24:07. | |
Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
There are speeches, and there are speeches. | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading | :24:17. | :24:19. | |
to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms | :24:20. | :24:22. | |
This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states. | :24:27. | :24:29. | |
It should give British companies the maximum | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
operate within European markets and let European businesses do | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal, | :24:38. | :24:45. | |
We want to test what people think about what she's just said. | :24:46. | :25:01. | |
Do we have any of our future negotiating | :25:02. | :25:03. | |
As the European Parliament voted for its new | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
president, its chief negotiator sounded off. | :25:09. | :25:16. | |
Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept | :25:17. | :25:18. | |
it, we're going to make from Britain a sort | :25:19. | :25:21. | |
of free zone or tax haven, I | :25:22. | :25:24. | |
The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger. | :25:31. | :25:33. | |
We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership. | :25:38. | :25:47. | |
Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic | :25:48. | :25:50. | |
leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail? | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page. | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven. | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming | :26:03. | :26:05. | |
an independent country again, with control of our own laws, | :26:06. | :26:07. | |
I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because | :26:08. | :26:14. | |
There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners? | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
There will, at the end of this deal process, | :26:23. | :26:24. | |
so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
We take the view as Liberal Democrats that | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
if this process started with democracy last June, | :26:32. | :26:33. | |
We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
watching it in a small room somewhere? | :26:45. | :26:46. | |
Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that | :26:47. | :26:53. | |
somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
with the European Union didn't work, we would move | :26:57. | :26:58. | |
into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the | :26:59. | :27:00. | |
I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
The Labour leader suggested he'd tell | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if | :27:12. | :27:14. | |
Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among | :27:15. | :27:16. | |
Finally, do we have anyone from big business here? | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic | :27:23. | :27:31. | |
Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been | :27:32. | :27:41. | |
anticipating since the referendum result, | :27:42. | :27:43. | |
particularly around the | :27:44. | :27:44. | |
I think what we've also seen today is the Government's | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
have to be pretty tough to get what you want. | :27:57. | :27:58. | |
Although some business people on the slopes speculated | :27:59. | :28:00. | |
about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain. | :28:01. | :28:03. | |
We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, | :28:04. | :28:21. | |
but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit | :28:22. | :28:24. | |
Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott. | :28:25. | :28:27. | |
People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are | :28:28. | :28:36. | |
four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people, | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better. | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to | :28:57. | :29:04. | |
parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what | :29:31. | :29:33. | |
amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block | :29:34. | :29:40. | |
it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we | :29:41. | :29:48. | |
will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU | :29:53. | :29:55. | |
migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
whether they voted to leave remain want answered. | :30:21. | :30:26. | |
When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I | :30:27. | :30:34. | |
can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation. | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially, | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip | :31:05. | :31:11. | |
on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against | :31:17. | :31:22. | |
it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember | :31:27. | :31:33. | |
when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just | :31:37. | :31:43. | |
another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds | :31:44. | :31:55. | |
voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a | :32:07. | :32:15. | |
three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority. | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should | :32:37. | :32:43. | |
remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market? | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to | :33:02. | :33:08. | |
remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that, | :33:09. | :33:16. | |
ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief. | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there. | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has | :33:33. | :33:41. | |
made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's | :33:42. | :33:48. | |
position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union, | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
including being a member of the single market, without | :33:58. | :34:00. | |
responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement, | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is | :34:05. | :34:13. | |
that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it. | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well, | :34:34. | :34:43. | |
if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has | :34:44. | :34:52. | |
unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is! | :34:53. | :35:01. | |
It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own | :35:34. | :35:40. | |
free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for | :36:18. | :36:23. | |
Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February. | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating | :36:29. | :36:37. | |
that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats, | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you. | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
You're watching the Sunday Politics. | :36:50. | :36:50. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead, | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James | :36:57. | :36:58. | |
about the government's new industrial strategy and that | :36:59. | :37:01. | |
crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit. | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
My name is Peter Henley. Politics where you are. | :37:05. | :37:23. | |
On today's show, fairer funding for schools. | :37:24. | :37:25. | |
The government's new funding formula was meant to end the postcode | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
lottery of how much cash each school gets but in Oxfordshire more than | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
First let's meet the two victims, sorry, politicians who will be | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
Julia Reid is UKIP MEP for the Southwest of England. | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
Keith House is the Lib Dem leader of the council. | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
Local government under a huge amount of financial pressure and we see | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
A referendum to increase their council tax by 15%. | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
When I first heard the story I thought someone was trying | :37:55. | :38:01. | |
The idea of a Conservative council putting up council tax by 10 times | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
Surrey is in a dreadful situation, worse than many councils | :38:06. | :38:12. | |
It's reckless because the Chancellor of the electorate decided to put | :38:13. | :38:19. | |
It's a cry for help I think which could be a great help | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
for all of local government because local government has | :38:25. | :38:26. | |
been treated very badly by government over recent years. | :38:27. | :38:33. | |
Promises of help have never really come. | :38:34. | :38:35. | |
All we do is we see money moved around rather than new money come | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
to us and we got a big big problem particularly with adult social care | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
It'll only be solved by national funding | :38:43. | :38:44. | |
which is what the Liberal Democrats have been saying. | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
Right, although local solutions is what national | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
Julia, in general UKIP like referendums. | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
This one, a million pounds they think it might cost. | :38:58. | :38:59. | |
We think this is just being done for political reasons. | :39:00. | :39:06. | |
I pretty much agree with what Keith said. | :39:07. | :39:09. | |
You don't think people should have 15% increase even someone | :39:10. | :39:11. | |
I think what will happen is, as you suggested, | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
I'm a town councillor in the south-west where the shire | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
counties in particular around my area have had | :39:22. | :39:25. | |
We are in a position, that we are going to have to put | :39:26. | :39:35. | |
up our precept and it's very unpopular because people | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
The majority of people are struggling. | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
It's the idea everyone in Surrey is rich. | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
There is lots of people on average incomes struggling in Surrey just | :39:47. | :39:49. | |
But the government keep taking money away, which I think is the problem. | :39:50. | :39:56. | |
But do people understand, when there is a local government | :39:57. | :39:59. | |
thing we can't afford to provide these services because they're | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
receiving less money from national government? | :40:03. | :40:04. | |
People have lost libraries and various other things. | :40:05. | :40:12. | |
Our library most of the time it's empty and we have to trust people | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
to go in and borrow books when there's nobody there. | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
All councils I think are finding real difficulty. | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
It's still another four months until this year's local | :40:28. | :40:29. | |
government elections, but there's already | :40:30. | :40:31. | |
a new administration in power at the Isle of Wight Council. | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
That's because on Monday the leader, the deputy leader and another | :40:36. | :40:37. | |
councillor from the executive group all of them independents, resigned. | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
They said some councillors were too concerned with | :40:43. | :40:44. | |
It comes after a fairly stormy few years for the island independents. | :40:45. | :40:51. | |
They've had defections and resignations, but they got there. | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
Joining me now from the island is Jonathan Bacon who, until Monday, | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
I suppose I should say congratulations for getting as far | :41:01. | :41:06. | |
as you did because people didn't think the independent group | :41:07. | :41:09. | |
would stay together but why throw in the towel at the final furlong? | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
I think the situation was getting intolerable. | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
At the moment, national government is imposing death by 1,000 cuts | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
on local government and really it's nigh on impossible to do anything | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
and what you need in that situation is the ability to stand firm | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
and united against government but, unfortunately, in our council, | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
we had too money people who were more interested | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
in politicking and bickering rather than working together. | :41:38. | :41:39. | |
They just made the situation intolerable. | :41:40. | :41:46. | |
And we saw it on Wednesday night in the full council meeting. | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
I know quite a lot of people who followed my decision who never | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
normally watch a full council meeting did so, and were actually | :41:55. | :41:57. | |
Two hours were spent arguing about whether to have a new leader, | :41:58. | :42:04. | |
whether to appoint a certain committee chairman, leaving only one | :42:05. | :42:07. | |
When you've got the sort of pressures and cuts being imposed | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
by central government, to behave in that way is farcical. | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
It made my situation impossible and intolerable. | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
How had you tried to stop that happening? | :42:24. | :42:25. | |
You wanted to put people before politics. | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
I think we just kept doing as much as we could but it's the other | :42:29. | :42:39. | |
people who did not want to behave in that way who did not | :42:40. | :42:42. | |
Well, I think that's probably a good thing | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
because if they are going to stop trying to do the right thing, | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
trying to achieve anything, then they should take | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
the responsibility for what is happening. | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
So there's a Conservative group now and that surely is worse as far | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
Aren't you just playing games, putting them in just | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
before the election hoping they will be unpopular? | :43:08. | :43:11. | |
I'm sure some people will think that, but I think it's about time | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
those people who have been denying any responsibility for the situation | :43:15. | :43:17. | |
when it's their government who are creating the problems should | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
actually stand up and we can see are they going to actually now work | :43:21. | :43:26. | |
for the people of the Isle of Wight and challenge what government | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
is doing rather than just rolling over and accepting the situation | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
We've had an MP who, over the past few months, | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
has said the island should cut its cloth. | :43:40. | :43:41. | |
I was very disturbed to see the new council leader Dave Stewart | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
said we have to live within our means. | :43:45. | :43:47. | |
But what's got to be recognised and worked against is the fact that | :43:48. | :43:50. | |
you can't do that if you don't have sufficient means. | :43:51. | :43:53. | |
I think the situation in Surrey shows quite starkly that | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
that's the situation across local government. | :43:58. | :44:00. | |
We felt it particular harshly on the Isle of Wight | :44:01. | :44:03. | |
and particularly harshly when you've got some councillors who simply | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
won't accept that and decide to play politics rather than deal | :44:08. | :44:10. | |
Two bits of politics business that was happening when you left, | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
The High Court action over school holidays for John Platt. | :44:17. | :44:23. | |
Do you think that Isle of Wight Council will now abandon that? | :44:24. | :44:26. | |
And the devolution proposals together with Southampton | :44:27. | :44:28. | |
Portsmouth, is there any way forward there? | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
I can take both of those if you like. | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
In terms of the school attendance issue, what we are dealing | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
with there is simply a legal definition of what | :44:41. | :44:42. | |
It's been played out as being about whether someone | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
should go on holiday or not, when it's not. | :44:49. | :44:50. | |
The Department of Education have taken over the case now | :44:51. | :44:53. | |
because they are concerned at the lack of clarity in the law | :44:54. | :44:55. | |
about when can school attendance provisions come into force. | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
Without doubt, ask any educational professional, | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
it's very difficult to organise the classroom system and it's very | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
difficult for schools to operate when they don't know if they have | :45:10. | :45:12. | |
any power over the children turning up to school or not. | :45:13. | :45:15. | |
You think the new administration won't pursue this then? | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
I think they need to have a conversation with the Department | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
of Education because the only reason it's got to the stage it's | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
at is because the Department of Education have said | :45:26. | :45:27. | |
that they want that case to be taken to the Supreme Court. | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
We recognise the cost issues as an administration last year | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
and weren't going to take it any further but the Department | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
of Education said, no, we'll pick up the tab. | :45:38. | :45:39. | |
We think it's important, we want to take it forward | :45:40. | :45:41. | |
and they are now party to the case so I think it's going to be | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
a matter of the Conservative administration talking | :45:46. | :45:47. | |
Remember, of course, as a result of what was done | :45:48. | :45:53. | |
by the previous Conservative administration, the Isle | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
of Wight Council is still under a direction from the ministry | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
to improve educational standards and attendance as part of that. | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
We have had a lot of kickbacks and it was depressing last November | :46:06. | :46:15. | |
to visit the Secretary of State and be told we will put | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
you in the in-tray, but not taking you any further for now. | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
An awful lot of work had been done about that. | :46:23. | :46:25. | |
It will be interesting again to see what the new administration | :46:26. | :46:28. | |
in the Isle of Wight do about that, because they have been | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
Indeed, last September-October, there were trying to block | :46:32. | :46:39. | |
us being able to make proposal to the Secretary of State just | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
Are they going to contest government policy that way? | :46:43. | :46:48. | |
It will be interesting to see because if they do that, | :46:49. | :46:51. | |
hopefully that would indicate they might contest government policy | :46:52. | :46:54. | |
Again, that's something we need to see what's going to happen. | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
Jonathan Bacon, thanks very much for joining us. | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
Just quickly, do you think devolution is dead? | :47:04. | :47:05. | |
We are very much part of the deal, South Hampshire | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
It's the financial answer to the Isle of Wight, devolution, | :47:09. | :47:15. | |
because it's the only way of solving the funding crisis across | :47:16. | :47:18. | |
Southampton and the island and the rest of Hampshire too. | :47:19. | :47:20. | |
It's about the ability to borrow long-term against business rates, | :47:21. | :47:22. | |
deal with the infrastructure problem we have got and take proper control | :47:23. | :47:25. | |
of our own services, so I very much hope devolution isn't dead. | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
It is the best answer for the island, the best | :47:30. | :47:31. | |
There is a UKIP councillor on the island and one | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
Do think UKIP in general would support more devolution? | :47:36. | :47:41. | |
Probably but it would depend on the circumstances I think. | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
It does look like it's going away, no new money coming | :47:47. | :47:49. | |
This is the answer to the no money point because devolution gives local | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
authorities collectively the power to sort their own things out | :47:55. | :47:56. | |
And work in a collaborative way to get investment into the patch. | :47:57. | :48:04. | |
It gets the government off the hook and why government is so keen | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
on devolution but requires local authorities to together | :48:08. | :48:09. | |
so the Isle of Wight, we need them on board. | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
The captain has jumped ship, but thank you anyway, | :48:14. | :48:15. | |
Schools in many areas of our region had been complaining for years | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
that the funding formula the government uses to calculate how | :48:21. | :48:23. | |
much cash they get has been unfairly weighted against them. | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
In an effort to address that, the government has come up | :48:28. | :48:29. | |
with a new formala but does it get any better marks than the old one? | :48:30. | :48:39. | |
Our Oxfordshire reporter Beth and Phillips has been finding out | :48:40. | :48:42. | |
Our Oxfordshire reporter Bethan Phillips has been finding out | :48:43. | :48:44. | |
why schools in some parts of the South have been feeling | :48:45. | :48:46. | |
It's the ultimate political football. | :48:47. | :48:56. | |
And just like the beautiful game, it's all about the money. | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
Oxfordshire schools have traditionally been in the lower half | :49:02. | :49:03. | |
of the league when it comes to school funding. | :49:04. | :49:05. | |
Last year, the government promised to tackle unfairness in the system. | :49:06. | :49:09. | |
Hopes were raised that schools here would be in for a big win, | :49:10. | :49:12. | |
but actually, nearly half of schools are going to lose money | :49:13. | :49:15. | |
133 schools will get more funding but overall, | :49:16. | :49:22. | |
funding is only going by 0.8% for Oxfordshire schools, | :49:23. | :49:25. | |
Calls for fairer funding are nothing new. | :49:26. | :49:35. | |
Schools in West Sussex even lobbied the Prime Minister about it, | :49:36. | :49:37. | |
saying they might have to cut back on the school week. | :49:38. | :49:40. | |
MPs and teachers across the South have known for a long time | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
that their schools were losing out to London. | :49:45. | :49:47. | |
Our schools in Poole and Dorset were amongst the worst funded | :49:48. | :49:50. | |
Dorset was 11th worst and there was no rhyme or reason for it. | :49:51. | :49:56. | |
If there had been an explanation, because Dorset is thought | :49:57. | :49:58. | |
to be a wealthier area, I could have accepted it. | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
But when the new formula was revealed in Oxfordshire, | :50:02. | :50:04. | |
We are facing an unsustainable cut to our budgets, and I'm | :50:05. | :50:13. | |
And for struggling school smaller schools | :50:14. | :50:19. | |
Potentially, yes, it means closures, but I just don't see how that | :50:20. | :50:26. | |
And I think there will be a huge political backlash before | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
At this primary School in Henley, it will lose ?11,000 over two years. | :50:32. | :50:40. | |
Head teacher Jacky Steele said it could mean losing a member of staff. | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
If we are constantly stretched, and constantly having | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
to give something up, which essentially is what's | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
happening with lack of funding and resources, then it's going to be | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
even harder to achieve the results and the standards | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
The bar is being raised ever higher and we are stretching further. | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
That is a really big ask of school leaders. | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
At the other end of the funding league table is Windmill | :51:10. | :51:11. | |
It is getting a 2.8% boost under the new formula. | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
But headteacher Lynn Knapp says that money will only | :51:18. | :51:19. | |
I think it's about maintaining our staff. | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
Where we were looking to going into deficit, | :51:26. | :51:27. | |
we can't employ an extra staff member, maybe we'll have | :51:28. | :51:29. | |
to make redundancies, so by having a standstill figure | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
or an increase we are just protecting the staff we've got. | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
We're certainly not looking at increasing our staffing level. | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
While some Oxfordshire schools feel left on the subs | :51:43. | :51:45. | |
bench by the new formula, schools in Dorset have won | :51:46. | :51:48. | |
MP Michael Tomlinson says it's good news. | :51:49. | :51:55. | |
In my constituency alone, mid Dorset North Poole, | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
it's an increased funding overall of ?1 million for our schools, | :51:59. | :52:01. | |
I used to be a school governor myself. | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
I know how carefully governors and schools look at the individual | :52:07. | :52:08. | |
budgets and this will make a significant difference | :52:09. | :52:10. | |
The Department for Education insists the new formula will mean an end | :52:11. | :52:16. | |
to the postcode lottery in school funding, but in Oxfordshire, | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
fears remain that for some schools losing out, it could be game over. | :52:21. | :52:28. | |
Julia, the system had been creaking, hadn't it? | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
The data was hugely old for these different schools and schools | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
with very similar catchments in areas were getting hugely | :52:38. | :52:39. | |
But there will always have to be winners and losers. | :52:40. | :52:46. | |
It is a difficult decision, isn't it? | :52:47. | :52:47. | |
We've heard about Dorset, but the majority of our counties | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
in I think rural areas, historically, for whatever reason, | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
they've ended up with a lot less money than urban areas. | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
I'm not suggesting that to take money away from schools | :53:03. | :53:05. | |
is a good thing, we've heard, but obviously something had to be | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
done about rural areas because they weren't getting | :53:10. | :53:11. | |
What would UKIP's solution have been, put more money into it? | :53:12. | :53:19. | |
Hopefully, when we've left the European Union and we don't | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
At the moment, 350 million is going to the NHS. | :53:25. | :53:38. | |
Our figure is we would save between ?200-?220 million a week. | :53:39. | :53:46. | |
And some of that money would be able to go on issues such as education. | :53:47. | :53:52. | |
Getting rid of extra care at home, some will go on schools. | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
The aid budget, you still want to reduce that? | :53:58. | :53:59. | |
Given leaving the EU is going to make as poor as a country, | :54:00. | :54:05. | |
there's going to be less money to go to schools and the health service. | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
The problem with education funding is we've had nationalised | :54:10. | :54:11. | |
Every decision, every bit of school funding have been taken by minister | :54:12. | :54:18. | |
The real answer is proper devolution. | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
School funding, alongside health funding, handed back | :54:23. | :54:23. | |
to local communities through their local | :54:24. | :54:25. | |
It's the only way to solve these issues so local people get | :54:26. | :54:32. | |
the balance between affluent and less affluent. | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
This could be a whole new line for UKIP, surely? | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
Pull us out of national government as well as out of Europe. | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
Why isn't Paul Nuttall going more strongly for this? | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
Is it because he has different principles to Nigel Farage? | :54:50. | :54:57. | |
I think on the main issues Nigel and Paul are straight | :54:58. | :54:59. | |
down the line the same which is UKIP principles,... | :55:00. | :55:08. | |
There will be more money when we leave Europe | :55:09. | :55:10. | |
I don't see UKIP's role in local government in terms of deciding | :55:11. | :55:18. | |
which money goes to particular project and how loudly | :55:19. | :55:20. | |
at government to say this isn't working. | :55:21. | :55:26. | |
Actually, where we are on councils in sufficient numbers, | :55:27. | :55:28. | |
we've managed to make quite a good saving. | :55:29. | :55:30. | |
We're against this cabinet system lots of councils have. | :55:31. | :55:38. | |
UKIP in local government is falling apart. | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
councillors four years ago and only have seven left mouthfuls of three | :55:43. | :55:49. | |
have gone, one's gone to the Tories, one has become independent and one | :55:50. | :55:52. | |
resigned from is it for not turning up to meetings so UKIP don't | :55:53. | :55:55. | |
have a record in local government because there's no consistency. | :55:56. | :55:58. | |
What is your role now in Brussels and Strasbourg question you're | :55:59. | :56:01. | |
being paid by the taxpayer to be there and yet we are now leaving | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
While we are still in the EU, we need to have MEPs | :56:06. | :56:12. | |
there to make sure the British people actually know | :56:13. | :56:14. | |
Until UKIP actually sent MEPs to Brussels, | :56:15. | :56:21. | |
we were just kept in the ignorance and actually the grand plan | :56:22. | :56:24. | |
of what European ever closer union and harmonisation meant, | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
so we are still there and UKIP MEPs, since this latest legislature, | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
we all turn up, we attend our committees, we vote. | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
Nigel Farage has got a history of not turning up to committees. | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
Being paid for a job but not doing it. | :56:43. | :56:53. | |
At one point, there was very little reason for us to turn up because... | :56:54. | :56:56. | |
You are being paid to turn up and argue a case. | :56:57. | :56:59. | |
It's exactly the same for not turning up to | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
Hampshire county council and having to resign. | :57:06. | :57:06. | |
It was deemed we would be better off working hard in the UK. | :57:07. | :57:09. | |
They won the referendum at the end of the day. | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
The real issue now is we are getting a deal which is not | :57:15. | :57:17. | |
People were told we'll leave the European Union but stay | :57:18. | :57:24. | |
in the single market, stay in the customs union. | :57:25. | :57:27. | |
Can I just say, in defence, of Nigel Farage, Nigel came off | :57:28. | :57:35. | |
Now, our regular roundup of the political week | :57:36. | :57:44. | |
A guardsman, Councillor, a queen and a cow. | :57:45. | :58:04. | |
An innovative photocall for Reading's royal blue buses, | :58:05. | :58:06. | |
the new fleet which runs on farm waste. | :58:07. | :58:08. | |
More innovation and crowd funding campaigns to give every | :58:09. | :58:11. | |
MP a copy of Brexit, what the hell happens now? | :58:12. | :58:13. | |
If we are going to move ahead with this, we need to be careful. | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
Perhaps Hampshire police could try crowd funding. | :58:19. | :58:23. | |
PCC Michael Lane says they are 25% underfunded | :58:24. | :58:25. | |
Current national formula with two thirds money is not fit | :58:26. | :58:34. | |
more female scientists by using gender blind applications. | :58:35. | :58:41. | |
Those hiring people won't see names on shortlists | :58:42. | :58:43. | |
And a scheme to get more jobs for homeless people has been backed | :58:44. | :58:48. | |
to do more after discovering one of his employees was sleeping rough. | :58:49. | :58:59. | |
That's one practical thing that you could do. | :59:00. | :59:04. | |
the people hiring don't know who's who. | :59:05. | :59:12. | |
It would be interesting to see if it did. | :59:13. | :59:15. | |
The evidence is it works in recruitment. | :59:16. | :59:17. | |
If you don't know things about people, you're more likely | :59:18. | :59:28. | |
The evidence is, for example, ethnic minority candidates are less | :59:29. | :59:32. | |
likely to get them simply because people at the name. | :59:33. | :59:35. | |
Some would say that a more fundamental problem and we should | :59:36. | :59:37. | |
stop boys being given Lego at Christmas. | :59:38. | :59:43. | |
I think irrespective of what people say, there is a difference for that | :59:44. | :59:48. | |
I myself know in science female scientists, because I'm | :59:49. | :59:51. | |
a biochemist, we approach work completely differently. | :59:52. | :59:52. | |
The key issue is to respect individuality. | :59:53. | :59:55. | |
Both of you, thank you very much for being on the programme this week. | :59:56. | :00:03. | |
have to do this. Thank you to you both. | :00:04. | :00:10. | |
What exactly is the government's industrial strategy? | :00:11. | :00:20. | |
Will ministers lose their supreme court battle over Brexit, and, | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
Well, tomorrow Theresa May is launching the government's | :00:25. | :00:36. | |
industrial strategy - and to talk about that we're joined | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
by the Business Minister, Margot James - welcome to the show. | :00:40. | :00:47. | |
When you look at what has already been released in advance of the | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
Prime Minister's statement, it was embargoed for last night, it's not | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
really an industrial strategy, it's just another skills strategy, of | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
which we have had about six since the war, and our skills training is | :01:05. | :01:11. | |
among the worst in Western Europe? There will be plenty more to be | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
announced tomorrow in what is really a discussion document in the | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
preparation of an industrial strategy which we intend to launch | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
properly later in the year. Let's look at skills. You are allocating | :01:24. | :01:32. | |
117 of funding to establish institutes of technology. How many? | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
The exact number is to be agreed, but the spend is there, and it will | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
be on top of what we are doing to the university, technical | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
colleges... How many were lit bio create? We don't know exactly, but | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
we want to put them in areas where young people are performing under | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
the national average. But if you don't know how many, what is the | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
basis of 170 million? That is the amount the Treasury have released. | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
The something that is very important, we are agreed we need to | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
devote more resources to vocational training and get it on a par with | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
academic qualifications. I looked on the website of my old university, | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
the University of Glasgow, the Russell group universities. Its | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
spending budget every year is over 600 million. That's one University. | :02:31. | :02:38. | |
And yet you have a mere 170 million foreign unspecified number of | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
institutes of technology. It hasn't got equality with the academics? You | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
have to remember that just as you have quoted figures from Glasgow | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
University there are further education colleges all over the | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
country. The government is already spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But | :02:57. | :03:05. | |
also, we are going to be adding... This is new money that is all to the | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
good, because we are already spending a lot. We have already | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
created 2 million more apprentices since 2010. That many are not in | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
what we would call the stem skills, and a lot come nowhere near what the | :03:20. | :03:24. | |
Dutch, Germans and Austrians would have. I'm not clear how another 170 | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
million would do. You said it is more than skills. In what way is | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
this industrial strategy different from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne | :03:36. | :03:47. | |
did before? It's different because it is involving every single | :03:48. | :03:48. | |
government department, and bringing together everything that government | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
does in a bid to make Britain more competitive as it disengages from | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
the European Union. That is what the last Labour government did. They | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
will much more targeted interventions. Under the Labour | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
government, the auto industry got some benefit. A few more sectors | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
were broached under the coalition government. This is all about | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
communities all over the country, some of whom have fallen behind in | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
terms of wage growth and good jobs. The Prime Minister has already | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
announced 2 billion as a research and development priority in specific | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
technologies, robotics, artificial intelligence, medical technology, | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
satellites... So you are doing what has been done before. There is | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
nothing new about this. Wait until tomorrow, because there will be some | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
new strands emerging. It is the beginning of the dialogue with | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
industry and with workers, and the responses will be invited up until | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
April. That will inform a wider strategy that goes beyond skills. I | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
have moved on to beyond them. I'm slightly puzzled as to how the | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
government knows where to invest in robotics, when it can't even provide | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
the NHS with a decent IT system. Discuss. I have to say I find it | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
bizarre that the government is making an announcement about an | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
amount of money and don't know where it's going. This is typical of all | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
governments over all political shoes, which is total disregard for | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
technical education, so different from Germany, who actually invest in | :05:31. | :05:38. | |
the technological side. Germany has a long history. We want to emulate | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
some of the best of what German companies do. Siemens sponsor | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
primary schools, for example. We want to get a dialogue on with | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
business. We don't want to decide where this money is going. By the | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
way, it was 4.7 billion that the government has agreed to invest in | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
science and research, which is the most significant increase in | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
decades. Can you remind us what happened in Northern Ireland, when | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
the government invested money in state-of-the-art technology for | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
energy? No one needs to be reminded of that, and that is not what we are | :06:18. | :06:24. | |
doing. We are inviting business and industry to advise where that money | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
is best spent. That's very different from government deciding that a | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
particular technology is for the future. The government's chief | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
scientific adviser has determined that we will invest a huge amount in | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
battery technology, which should benefit the electric car industry, | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
and... This is taxpayers' money. Who gets it? Ultimately, business will | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
get it, but often only when there is a considerable amount of private | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
sector finance also drawn in. But who is held to account? Various | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
government departments at local authorities will hold this list to | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
account. A lot of it is about releasing private capital as well. | :07:16. | :07:22. | |
Thank you very much. This week, the Supreme Court, I think we know the | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the expectation is that the judges will | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
say Parliament will have to vote to trigger. Is this all much ado about | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
nothing? Parliament will vote to trigger, and the government will win | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
in the Lords and the Commons by substantial majorities, and it will | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
be triggered? Completely. We've known that. Parliament is voted. | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
Everyone is pretty confident that the Supreme Court will uphold the | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
High Court's decision and say it has to go to MPs. There will be a bit of | :07:56. | :08:04. | |
toing and froing among MPs on amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
slightly car crash interview there. The Lib Dems may throw something in, | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
but we will trigger Article 50 by the end of March. If it also says | :08:14. | :08:20. | |
that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast should be picked up, | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
that could complicate matters. Absolutely. That could delay the | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
planned triggering of Article 50 before the end of March. Not what | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
they say about the Westminster Parliament, because it is clear that | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
it was. I never understood the furore about that original judgment, | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
because every MP made it clear they wouldn't block it. Even though Diane | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
Abbott was evasive on several fronts, she said they wouldn't block | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
it. You are right, if they give a vote, or give some authorisation for | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
the Scottish Parliament and other devolved assemblies, that might | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
delay the whole sequence. That is the only significant thing to watch | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs May goes to Washington. It will be | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
another movie in the making! I would suggest that she has a tricky line | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
to follow. She has got to be seen to be taking advantage of the fact that | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
there is a very pro-British, pro-Brexit president in the Oval | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
Office, who I am told is prepared to expend political capital on this. | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
But on the other hand, to make sure that she is not what we used to call | :09:34. | :09:46. | |
Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It is very difficult, and who would not | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
want to be a fly on the wall in that meeting! I can't think of anyone in | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
the world who would despise Mr Trump more than Mrs May, and for him, he | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
dislikes any woman who does not look like a supermodel, no disrespected | :09:59. | :10:09. | |
Mrs May. Most of it is actually anti-EU, and I think we should | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
capitalise it. Let's get the Queen to earn her money, roll out the red | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
carpet, invite him to dinner, spend the night, what ever we need... | :10:18. | :10:25. | |
Trump at Balmoral! Here is the issue, because the agenda is, as we | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that this is not an administration that | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
has much time for the EU, EU integration or Germany. I think | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
Germany will be the second biggest loser to begin with. They will not | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
even give a date for Angela Merkel to meet the president. This is an | :10:44. | :10:51. | |
opportunity for Mrs May... It is a huge. It could sideline talks of the | :10:52. | :11:00. | |
punishment beating from Germany. The Trump presidency has completely | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
changed the field on Brexit. Along came Donald Trump, and Theresa May | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
has this incredible opportunity here. Not of her making, but she has | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
played her cards well. To an officially be the EU emissary to | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
Washington, to get some sort of broker going. That gives us huge | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
extra leveraged in the Brexit negotiations. People around the | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
world think Germany as a currency manipulator, that it is benefiting | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
from an underpriced euro, hence the huge surplus it runs of America, and | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
they think it is disgraceful that a country that runs a massive budget | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP on defence, and America runs a | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
massive deficit and needs to spend a lot more. He's going for Germany. | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
And what a massive shift. I think Obama was quite open, in a farewell | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
interview, that he felt closer to Merkel than any other European | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
leader. And Jamie kind of reflected that in our discussion. Yes, that's | :12:07. | :12:13. | |
very interesting discussion. I think she was the last person he spoke to | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
in the White House, Obama. And now you are getting the onslaught from | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery is dangerous, though. Blair was | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
hypnotised by it and was too scared to criticise Bush, because he wanted | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
to be seen in that light, and we know where that led. Cameron | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
similarly with Obama, which presented him with problems, as | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
Obama didn't regard him as his number one pin up in Europe. I would | :12:43. | :12:49. | |
put a note of caution in there about the Thatcher - Reagan parallel. | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
Everything Trump is doing now is different from before, so Mrs May | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
should not have any of these previous relationships in her mind. | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
That is not entirely true. Donald Trump aches to be the new Ronald | :13:06. | :13:12. | |
Reagan. He may be impeached first! He sees her as the new Margaret | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
Thatcher, and that may her leveraged with him. Thank you. | :13:17. | :13:24. | |
We'll be back here at the same time next week, and you can catch up | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
on all the latest political news on the Daily Politics, | :13:30. | :13:31. | |
In the meantime, remember - if it's Sunday, | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
It's just pain, but it doesn't feel like pain, | :13:36. | :14:13. | |
it feels much more violent, dark and exciting. | :14:14. | :14:36. | |
Join Michael Buerk as he explores the dishes fit for kings and queens. | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
When it comes to extravagance, few monarchs can compete with George IV. | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
If that was for breakfast, I dread to think what he had for dinner. | :14:47. | :14:50. |