29/01/2017 Sunday Politics South


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29/01/2017

Andrew Neil and Peter Henley are joined by Nigel Farage, MEP. The Political Panel consists of Janan Ganesh, Julia Hartley-Brewer and Steve Richards.


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Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens of seven

:01:09.:01:13.

mainly Muslim countries sparks protests at several US airports.

:01:14.:01:15.

The NHS sustainability transformation plans.

:01:16.:01:18.

Are they really about fine tuning NHS services or,

:01:19.:01:21.

Should she have spoken out more strongly?

:01:22.:01:27.

We'll ask former Ukip leader and Trump confidant Nigel Farage

:01:28.:01:30.

what he makes of the travel ban and the Prime Minister's

:01:31.:01:32.

In London this week, the mayor, Sadiq Khan,

:01:33.:01:35.

has been coming under pressure to explain his fares freeze

:01:36.:01:38.

and why it doesn't apply to everybody.

:01:39.:01:39.

And with me, the best and brightest political

:01:40.:01:41.

panel in the business - Steve Richards, Julia

:01:42.:01:43.

They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.

:01:44.:01:46.

It was soon after Theresa May left the White House on Friday that

:01:47.:01:49.

Donald Trump signed the executive order banning citizens from seven

:01:50.:01:51.

President Trump's 90-day ban covers Iran, Iraq,

:01:52.:01:57.

Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Syria, from

:01:58.:02:01.

where refugees are banned from until further notice.

:02:02.:02:05.

Donald Trump's executive order also imposes a complete ban

:02:06.:02:08.

on all refugees coming to the US for the next 120 days.

:02:09.:02:13.

Mr Trump said that the ban would keep radical Islamic terrorists out

:02:14.:02:17.

But the ban has sparked protests across the US,

:02:18.:02:25.

as people affected and already in the air were detained

:02:26.:02:28.

US laws have begun legal action to challenge the ban, which many

:02:29.:02:32.

At a press conference in Ankara, Turkey, Theresa May was asked

:02:33.:02:38.

about the refugee ban three times before giving this response...

:02:39.:02:42.

Well, the United States is responsible for the United States'

:02:43.:02:45.

The United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy

:02:46.:02:51.

on refugees, and our policy on refugees is to have a number

:02:52.:02:54.

of voluntary schemes to bring Syrian refugees into the country.

:02:55.:02:56.

Downing Street later issued a statement saying:

:02:57.:03:11.

This morning, the Treasury Minister, David Gauke, was asked why

:03:12.:03:14.

Theresa May had refused to condemn the travel ban at yesterday's

:03:15.:03:16.

The Prime Minister is not a shoot-from-the-hip

:03:17.:03:22.

She wants to see the evidence, she wants

:03:23.:03:26.

to understand precisely what the implications are.

:03:27.:03:31.

She'd been in a series of very lengthy meetings with

:03:32.:03:34.

President Erdogan, and she's someone who wants to see the briefing and

:03:35.:03:37.

understand it, and then will respond to that.

:03:38.:03:41.

I think there are times where, you know, there's always

:03:42.:03:43.

pressure to respond within a news cycle and so on.

:03:44.:03:47.

The important thing is, we are saying we disagree with it

:03:48.:03:49.

We're joined now from North London by the Conservative

:03:50.:03:53.

Should the Government in general and Theresa May in particular be more

:03:54.:04:05.

vocal in their criticism of Donald Trump's travel bans? Well, as David

:04:06.:04:13.

just said, it is obviously right that Theresa has now said this is an

:04:14.:04:17.

appropriate and not something we agree with in our Government, but I

:04:18.:04:21.

wish she had said something at the time, not least because it affects

:04:22.:04:28.

our own citizens. One of our own MPs, Nadhim, for example, because it

:04:29.:04:32.

is also a global crisis. She had clearly built an excellent with

:04:33.:04:39.

Donald Trump -- she had built an excellent relationship with him, but

:04:40.:04:42.

she could have been firmer. Mrs May hasn't said any word of criticism

:04:43.:04:47.

about the travel bans. She refused to say anything three times in

:04:48.:04:53.

Ankara, and it is merely an anonymous Downing Street

:04:54.:04:55.

spokesperson that has issued the subsequent mild criticism. We have

:04:56.:04:58.

not heard from the Prime Minister at all on this matter in terms of

:04:59.:05:03.

criticism. No, but the spokesperson will be speaking with her blessing,

:05:04.:05:07.

so it is clearly something she has acknowledged. As I said before, I

:05:08.:05:11.

wish she had said something at the time. The global climate at the

:05:12.:05:15.

moment is delicate and we need our leaders to work together to address

:05:16.:05:20.

things like the refugee crisis. Potentially, this plays into the

:05:21.:05:24.

hands of Daesh. It is absolutely not the right message. What would you

:05:25.:05:32.

like the Prime Minister to say? As with any new relationship, it is

:05:33.:05:35.

about testing the boundaries. They had clearly got on well, so she

:05:36.:05:38.

should have felt braver to say something there and then. I would

:05:39.:05:42.

have preferred her to say, for example, I need to talk to Donald

:05:43.:05:45.

Trump about this. It is not something I support and I want to

:05:46.:05:47.

understand why because I believe there is a better way to deal with

:05:48.:05:52.

the terrorist threat. I would have liked her to suggest that she would

:05:53.:05:56.

engage with him to do that. The president has instituted a 90 day

:05:57.:06:00.

temporary ban on people coming from seven mainly Muslim majority

:06:01.:06:06.

population countries. The seven were on President Obama's list of the

:06:07.:06:11.

biggest terrorist threats to the United States. Mr Trump wants this

:06:12.:06:15.

temporary ban until he puts tougher vetting procedures in place. What is

:06:16.:06:21.

wrong with that? Because it appeared to me that it wasn't thought through

:06:22.:06:25.

and it was affecting ordinary citizens and some British citizens.

:06:26.:06:29.

It can't be right that a president in that position of power can

:06:30.:06:33.

arbitrarily come up with executive powers like that. It has already

:06:34.:06:38.

been challenged by his own courts. So it is not the considered approach

:06:39.:06:43.

I want to see in a global leader. Who do you believe will be hurt by

:06:44.:06:47.

this, given that there can be exceptions on a case-by-case basis?

:06:48.:07:01.

I think potentially, our global reputation is going to be hurt by

:07:02.:07:06.

this. I have been to the refugee camps in Europe myself. There are

:07:07.:07:10.

desperate people trying to free persecution who will be hurt by

:07:11.:07:13.

this. We are trying to heal the wounds in this country not only

:07:14.:07:18.

because of Brexit. This is a time of coming together, not about saying it

:07:19.:07:20.

is located discriminatory against race and religion in this way. Do

:07:21.:07:25.

you believe that Mr Trump's state visit should go ahead? Well, he is

:07:26.:07:31.

the leader of America, so it does need to go ahead and we need to work

:07:32.:07:34.

with him. I believe Theresa has started in a positive manner was

:07:35.:07:39.

that she just needs to continue in that vein. If he comes to our

:07:40.:07:42.

country, he needs to respect the way we feel about things. But yes, he is

:07:43.:07:48.

the president, so he does need to come to the UK. There is some debate

:07:49.:07:51.

within Westminster as to where it is appropriate for him to speak to MPs,

:07:52.:07:56.

but it is right that he comes. But if he does come on a state visit,

:07:57.:08:00.

should he be granted what this country has always thought of as a

:08:01.:08:03.

great honour, which is a joint address to both Houses of

:08:04.:08:09.

Parliament? I haven't been an MP long enough to understand the

:08:10.:08:12.

protocol of where is the right location for him to do that, but I

:08:13.:08:17.

believe in the past, it has been the greatest leaders, when they have

:08:18.:08:22.

achieved great things globally, it is Westminster Hall. But there are a

:08:23.:08:26.

number of MPs saying that is not the most appropriate place and I am

:08:27.:08:29.

inclined to agree. You don't think he should be accorded the privilege

:08:30.:08:32.

of speaking to a joint session of Parliament? I think there are places

:08:33.:08:38.

where he can do that, but Westminster Hall is not yet the

:08:39.:08:41.

right place. Thank you for joining us.

:08:42.:08:52.

Steve, within 24 hours, we have seen the difficulty of becoming Donald

:08:53.:08:58.

Trump's best friend. On the one hand, it could have huge advantages,

:08:59.:09:02.

particularly for a Brexit Britain. On the other hand, if you are going

:09:03.:09:07.

to be his best friend, you don't have to give a running commentary on

:09:08.:09:12.

every major thing he does. Yeah. We have learned a bit about Theresa

:09:13.:09:17.

May, that when she has to produce a set piece speech which she has time

:09:18.:09:22.

to prepare, she can get it totally right and sometimes more than right.

:09:23.:09:27.

When she is faced with a fast-moving story, she is leaden footed and

:09:28.:09:36.

can't think quickly on her feet. We know, did she regret not saying

:09:37.:09:40.

more? Evidently she did, because we got a statement from the Downing

:09:41.:09:44.

Street spokesperson saying more. So she can't think quickly. She's going

:09:45.:09:48.

to have to think very quickly in response to some of the things he's

:09:49.:09:51.

going to be doing, because she will be asked about it all the time. It

:09:52.:09:56.

does highlight the wider danger that the assumption that the special

:09:57.:10:01.

relationship is always a safe and fertile place to be has been proven

:10:02.:10:04.

wrong before and I think it will be proven wrong big-time in this case.

:10:05.:10:10.

You're shaking your head. I don't see why we are responsible for

:10:11.:10:14.

American domestic policy. I am as appalled as the next person by what

:10:15.:10:18.

Donald Trump has done. He said he was going to do this, which was why

:10:19.:10:24.

I did not want Americans to vote for him. In fact, what he has

:10:25.:10:27.

implemented is much less than what he said he would do when he was

:10:28.:10:32.

campaigning. I have always felt that the campaigning Trump was the real

:10:33.:10:38.

Trump. But what he has done is actually constitutional. He has the

:10:39.:10:41.

executive power to issue this order. It is within the rules in terms of a

:10:42.:10:47.

class of aliens deemed to be a risk to the United States. It is a 90 day

:10:48.:10:51.

limited ban. The last president who did this was a Democrat president,

:10:52.:10:57.

President Carter. He did it in the aftermath of the Iranian crisis.

:10:58.:11:01.

Well, given the spate of terror attacks on American territory in

:11:02.:11:04.

recent years, you could argue that he meant well. I don't agree with

:11:05.:11:12.

Donald Trump. But have people from these countries that he has banned

:11:13.:11:17.

been involved in terrorist attacks? That is the absurdity. He has not

:11:18.:11:21.

included Egypt or Pakistan. But I don't remove everyone getting in

:11:22.:11:25.

such a state about President Carter. The reality is that it is a legal

:11:26.:11:28.

thing for him to do. I don't like it. But it is not my territory. It

:11:29.:11:38.

is illegal, because they have been given a right to remain by a judge

:11:39.:11:43.

in Brooklyn and another judging Alexandra. That is a different issue

:11:44.:11:48.

for people who have already gone through the vetting. I don't agree

:11:49.:11:53.

with this. However, I don't think it's reasonable to say that Theresa

:11:54.:11:57.

May, because she wants to do a deal with Donald Trump, I don't give is

:11:58.:12:03.

reasonable to say she have to agree with each of his policies. It is

:12:04.:12:09.

nonsense. But the issue, Janan, is not whether she needs to agree with

:12:10.:12:13.

him. The question is that she will be questioned about him all the time

:12:14.:12:19.

now. And although these are matters of domestic policy, the refugee

:12:20.:12:22.

policy is international. They speak to issues that affect Britain as

:12:23.:12:28.

well, and I would suggest that she will not get away with this

:12:29.:12:33.

anonymous statement from Downing Street. People will demand a she

:12:34.:12:37.

says something on the record. She would get away with it indefinitely.

:12:38.:12:40.

These situations will recur every time Donald Trump says or does

:12:41.:12:45.

something contentious. She will be pressed to this associate her

:12:46.:12:49.

administration from his. She will probably be in a better logistical

:12:50.:12:54.

situation to do so. She has spent a big chunk of the past 72 hours in

:12:55.:12:58.

the air. She flew from Washington to Ankara, than from Ankara to London.

:12:59.:13:03.

We don't have Air Force One, we don't have those frictionless

:13:04.:13:05.

communications with the ground. She would have been incommunicado for

:13:06.:13:10.

large periods of time when this story was breaking. That doesn't

:13:11.:13:14.

excuse the stiff response when she landed and issued a statement via

:13:15.:13:18.

Downing Street. But during that delay, she did have a plausible

:13:19.:13:22.

excuse. She has also got a much more tricky geopolitical situation than

:13:23.:13:26.

many other world leaders. She has to strike a favourable trade deal with

:13:27.:13:31.

the new US president. It is all very well people saying Justin Trudeau of

:13:32.:13:34.

Canada was much more vociferous in his criticism of Donald Trump. He is

:13:35.:13:38.

already in Nafta, he is not striking a new deal. For how long, we don't

:13:39.:13:44.

know. Exactly, he's trying to stay in Nafta, but he is in a less tricky

:13:45.:13:46.

situation than she is. Now, Theresa May's was the first

:13:47.:13:50.

foreign leader to meet President Trump and the visit

:13:51.:13:53.

was seen as quite a coup for the Prime Minister,

:13:54.:13:55.

keen for a new trading relationship with the United States

:13:56.:13:58.

in the wake of Brexit. The Prime Minister congratulated

:13:59.:14:00.

the new US President for his "stunning election victory"

:14:01.:14:02.

but might not have intended to be pictured walking

:14:03.:14:04.

through the White House with him That picture of Donald Trump helping

:14:05.:14:07.

Theresa May down the steps through the White House colonnade

:14:08.:14:11.

will be the enduring image Mrs May said the President

:14:12.:14:14.

told her he was "100% behind Nato". And for her part, the Prime Minister

:14:15.:14:22.

said she would work hard to make sure other Nato countries

:14:23.:14:26.

increased their defence spending It's been announced

:14:27.:14:29.

that there will be a new trade negotiation agreement,

:14:30.:14:35.

with high-level talks The hope is that this will lead

:14:36.:14:36.

to a new trade deal between the two countries as soon as

:14:37.:14:42.

Britain leaves the EU. Mr Trump said he believed "Brexit's

:14:43.:14:46.

going to be a wonderful thing". On Russia, Theresa May made clear

:14:47.:14:49.

to Donald Trump her continued

:14:50.:14:52.

backing for sanctions. And following the controversy over

:14:53.:14:57.

the President's support for torture, Mr Trump said he would defer

:14:58.:15:00.

to his Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, who argues

:15:01.:15:02.

that the practice doesn't work. And I'm joined now by the former

:15:03.:15:06.

Ukip leader, Nigel Farage. Do you agree with Mr Trump's

:15:07.:15:22.

decision to ban Syrian refugees indefinitely from entering the

:15:23.:15:26.

United States? I agree with the concept of democracy, a point which

:15:27.:15:30.

appears to be missed by almost all commentators including the BBC. He

:15:31.:15:35.

was elected to get tough and say he would do everything in his power to

:15:36.:15:39.

protect America from infiltration by ISIS terrorists. There are seven

:15:40.:15:47.

countries on that list. He's entitled to do this. I didn't ask if

:15:48.:15:52.

he was entitled, I asked if agree with it. I do, because if you just

:15:53.:15:58.

look at what's happening in France and Germany, if you look at Angela

:15:59.:16:02.

Merkel's policy which was to allow virtually anyone in from anywhere,

:16:03.:16:08.

look what it led to. You said in 2013 there's a responsibility on all

:16:09.:16:12.

of us in the free west to help some of those people fleeing Syria

:16:13.:16:17.

literally in fear of their lives. That's the Christian community in

:16:18.:16:22.

virtually all of those country, it is almost too late because many have

:16:23.:16:25.

been wiped out but if you are looking for a genuine definition of

:16:26.:16:30.

a refugee, going back to 1951, it is someone in direct fear of

:16:31.:16:35.

persecution of their life because of their race, religion or beliefs. But

:16:36.:16:39.

you didn't talk about only Christians, and in January 2014 you

:16:40.:16:44.

said, I seem to recall it was Ukip who started the debate on allowing

:16:45.:16:48.

Syrian refugees, you seem to be in favour of allowing proper refugees

:16:49.:16:54.

into this country. If they can be defined. Mr Trump won't let any in.

:16:55.:17:02.

He is running American policy, not British policy. Since I made those

:17:03.:17:06.

comments, we have had the Angela Merkel madness and I think Trump's

:17:07.:17:11.

policy in many ways has been shaped by what Angela Merkel did. He is

:17:12.:17:16.

fully entitled to do this, and as far as we are concerned in this

:17:17.:17:19.

country, I would like to see extreme vetting. Since 9/11 can you name any

:17:20.:17:29.

terrorist event in the United States that has involved refugees that have

:17:30.:17:33.

been allowed into the country? No, in fact the terrorist events have

:17:34.:17:38.

been US citizens radicalised. When you have a problem already, why

:17:39.:17:43.

would you wish to add to it? I would remind you that of the eight people

:17:44.:17:46.

that committed those atrocities in Paris, five of them had got into

:17:47.:17:50.

Europe posing as refugees so there is an issue here. But perhaps not

:17:51.:17:56.

for America because it has the most rigorous and lengthy screening

:17:57.:17:59.

process in the world, especially for Syrians. You have to register with

:18:00.:18:04.

the UN agency for refugees, which then recommend certain names to

:18:05.:18:09.

America, they then go through biometric screening, database

:18:10.:18:13.

screening, intelligent screenings, including four separate intelligence

:18:14.:18:23.

agencies screening you. How more rigorous would you want it to be? It

:18:24.:18:31.

is much more rigorous than we are or the rest of Europe. This is why we

:18:32.:18:35.

have elections, so voters can make choices and they voted for Donald

:18:36.:18:38.

Trump to become president and he said he would put bans in place and

:18:39.:18:44.

then move towards extreme vetting. As far as the Syrians are concerned

:18:45.:18:47.

he's made that decision but that's what he was voted in fourth. Since

:18:48.:18:54.

you know him, you have met him, you are confident of his, I'm testing

:18:55.:18:59.

you on the logic of it. Not that he's democratically elected, I'm not

:19:00.:19:03.

asking about that, I'm trying to get the case, particularly since if you

:19:04.:19:06.

take the seven countries of which the ban applies for 19 days, again,

:19:07.:19:13.

of these seven countries, its citizens have not been involved in

:19:14.:19:16.

terrorist attacks in the United States. It would be a mistake to say

:19:17.:19:20.

it is just Muslim countries because the biggest Muslim countries in the

:19:21.:19:23.

world have not been included in this. The point is they have made

:19:24.:19:27.

this assessment, they bought themselves 90 days to think about

:19:28.:19:33.

the policy. This is exactly what Trump's voters would have wanted him

:19:34.:19:39.

to do. You said the President's rhetoric on immigrants made even you

:19:40.:19:44.

feel very uncomfortable. Because he started by saying there was a total

:19:45.:19:48.

ban, then amended it to say there would be vetting. My guess is that

:19:49.:19:53.

what he will do is try to genuinely help Syrian people and he will be

:19:54.:19:57.

talking about the creation of some safe zones. Let's see. He hasn't. We

:19:58.:20:04.

will see. I suspect something like that is coming down the trap. What

:20:05.:20:10.

advice did you give to the president and his advisers ahead of Theresa

:20:11.:20:16.

May's visit? That I wanted us to talk about trade and to give the

:20:17.:20:20.

Prime Minister the impression that actually... When she has been

:20:21.:20:24.

surrounded by her whole career by civil servants and politicians who

:20:25.:20:29.

say that everything takes five years or seven years or ten years, to make

:20:30.:20:33.

it clear to the Prime Minister that if there is will, these things can

:20:34.:20:36.

be done quickly. Isn't there a danger of a British Prime Minister

:20:37.:20:40.

who has to deal with the president of the United States, to Ally

:20:41.:20:46.

herself so closely with such an unpredictable, controversial

:20:47.:20:51.

president, banning Muslims in certain ways and refugees, building

:20:52.:20:56.

a war with Mexico, threatening trade was with other countries, thinking

:20:57.:21:00.

of ending sanctions against Russia? I missing something here, what is

:21:01.:21:05.

controversial about defending the Mexican border? Bill Clinton spoke

:21:06.:21:10.

in tough terms, George Bush built six miles of fence, and because it

:21:11.:21:15.

is Donald Trump there is uproar. So you think there is no risk of the

:21:16.:21:18.

British by Minister being the best friend of this type of president? I

:21:19.:21:22.

think there is no risk in putting together a trade deal and no risk in

:21:23.:21:26.

her being the bridge between America and the rest of Nato to say to Nato

:21:27.:21:31.

members if you don't pay your 2% he is serious so on those things there

:21:32.:21:36.

is no risk at all. It was clear from her Lancaster house speech that the

:21:37.:21:41.

Brexiteers in the Government had won pretty much every argument in terms

:21:42.:21:45.

of negotiations to come out. What you want from her? She was very good

:21:46.:21:53.

as Home Secretary, Tory party conferences, the Tory press saying

:21:54.:21:56.

this was the new Thatcher and she failed. She even failed to control

:21:57.:22:01.

immigration from outside the European Union so yes, it was a good

:22:02.:22:04.

speech and for many on the Eurosceptic side of the argument, I

:22:05.:22:09.

could scarcely believe that a British Prime Minister was saying

:22:10.:22:12.

things which I had been roundly abused and vilified for. But I have

:22:13.:22:19.

a feeling we may be in for a very frustrating 2017. The mood as I can

:22:20.:22:23.

see it in Brussels is that negotiating with Britain is not a

:22:24.:22:27.

priority, they are far more worried about Dutch elections, French

:22:28.:22:31.

elections, German elections and possibly even Italian elections. I

:22:32.:22:36.

worry that by the end of this year we may not have made much progress

:22:37.:22:39.

and that's why the Trump visit suddenly things brings into focus.

:22:40.:22:46.

What if by the middle of June, for argument 's sake, the Americans say

:22:47.:22:50.

OK we reached this position with the British, compromised on the tough

:22:51.:22:54.

stuff, food standards and things like that, we are ready to sign a

:22:55.:23:00.

deal now, and Theresa May is to say actually Mr Juncker says I cannot

:23:01.:23:04.

sign this until we leave. What will they do? They cannot throw us out,

:23:05.:23:09.

we are living anyway. But everybody agrees you can talk about the deal,

:23:10.:23:14.

maybe even do the heads of agreement but you cannot sign a treaty until

:23:15.:23:18.

we have left the EU. Let me predict that at the end of this year we will

:23:19.:23:22.

find a European Union who frankly don't want to talk to us and

:23:23.:23:26.

countries around the world that want to get on and do things and that

:23:27.:23:31.

will be the big tension for Mrs May over the course of this year. If the

:23:32.:23:35.

Prime Minister is giving you everything you want on Brexit, you

:23:36.:23:39.

agree that she's trying to get from your point of view the right things.

:23:40.:23:43.

If she delivers on that and get Brexit on the terms of which you

:23:44.:23:48.

approve, what's the point of Ukip? You could argue that about any

:23:49.:23:52.

political party. If we have achieved the goal that we set out to achieve,

:23:53.:23:58.

there are right now out there 4 million people who are Ukip

:23:59.:24:02.

loyalists. They are delighted that by voting Ukip we got a referendum,

:24:03.:24:07.

they will be even happier if they seek us leave the European Union and

:24:08.:24:11.

I think there is still a gap in British politics for a party that

:24:12.:24:15.

says it as it sees it, is not afraid by political correctness and is seen

:24:16.:24:18.

to be on the side of the little people, and that's why, with the

:24:19.:24:24.

Labour Party is fundamentally split, and it really is totally split over

:24:25.:24:29.

this European question, I think Ukip is in good shape. That proposition

:24:30.:24:33.

will be put to test at the Stoke Central by-election, one of Ukip's

:24:34.:24:38.

best prospects in the country. Some people call it the capital of

:24:39.:24:42.

Brexit. Labour is in chaos over Article 50, is picked a candidate to

:24:43.:24:48.

fight Stoke Central who has described Brexit is a pile of notes.

:24:49.:24:57.

If your successor, Paul Nuttall, cannot win the Stoke by-election,

:24:58.:25:01.

there's not much hope for you, is there? I think he will. I've always

:25:02.:25:05.

been told don't make predictions but I think he will win. If you doesn't

:25:06.:25:12.

it will be tough, we will still have our 4 million loyalists, but if it

:25:13.:25:17.

does we can actually see Labour are beatable in their heartlands and

:25:18.:25:21.

Ukip will be off to the second big stage. Nigel Farage, thank you for

:25:22.:25:23.

being with us. It's just gone 11.25,

:25:24.:25:25.

you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

:25:26.:25:27.

in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll

:25:28.:25:30.

be talking to our political panel. On today's show, all

:25:31.:25:40.

about the future of NHS STPs, or sustainability

:25:41.:25:44.

and transformation plans. But are they just

:25:45.:25:50.

an excuse for cuts? But first let's make the two

:25:51.:25:53.

politicians who will be here Laetisia Carter is the deputy leader

:25:54.:25:59.

of the Labour group on West Oxfordshire council.

:26:00.:26:04.

Welcome. And Dr Philip Lee

:26:05.:26:07.

is the Conservative MP for Bracknell.

:26:08.:26:09.

Welcome, both. We've seen talk

:26:10.:26:12.

about devolution this week, and recently we've seen plans

:26:13.:26:14.

to create one Oxfordshire, and myriad different combinations

:26:15.:26:16.

of Hampshire, but nothing seems to be

:26:17.:26:21.

going forward and we need to work together as much

:26:22.:26:23.

as possible. And bigger is more efficient?

:26:24.:26:36.

Hopefully. I think, like many members

:26:37.:26:39.

of the public, I want to bang people's heads

:26:40.:26:41.

together and I want to be in a position

:26:42.:26:48.

to be negtionating the changes to make sure

:26:49.:26:51.

that we do save money. Yes, I think it could be useful,

:26:52.:26:53.

especially in this climate. It's saying from central

:26:54.:26:56.

government to local councils, sort yourselves out,

:26:57.:26:58.

work out which buildings you need, be more efficient,

:26:59.:27:00.

but it doesn't seem to be people aren't coming forward

:27:01.:27:02.

with ideas that work? Well, in Berkshire, we've

:27:03.:27:06.

had unitary authorities for the best

:27:07.:27:08.

part of 20 years and so we're used

:27:09.:27:09.

to trying to get the services right I'm not able to comment

:27:10.:27:12.

on other counties but all I would say is that

:27:13.:27:17.

I think the appropriate thing to do with regards

:27:18.:27:20.

to devolution is that the services that the people

:27:21.:27:22.

need sit at the right level in terms of local government,

:27:23.:27:24.

and I'm sure the councils in each respective council

:27:25.:27:27.

will bear that in mind. Some people talk that it's

:27:28.:27:29.

about being central element being government devolving

:27:30.:27:36.

the blame to local Does that not seem to be chasing

:27:37.:27:38.

after a shortage of money? That is part of the

:27:39.:27:42.

problem, and you are

:27:43.:27:44.

setting people up to fail. For example, social care budgets,

:27:45.:27:46.

I mean, they were devolved to councils at the same time

:27:47.:27:48.

they took away the moneys, so therefore,

:27:49.:27:50.

of course, you know, the Conservative Surrey leader came

:27:51.:27:52.

out this week, I believe... And wanted a 15%, or a referendum,

:27:53.:27:55.

and I actually spoke to the Chancellor when

:27:56.:27:57.

he was in Reading. He's a Surrey resident,

:27:58.:28:03.

he woudln't say if he's voting in this referendum,

:28:04.:28:05.

Alan Keyes just hoping that it won't But it's a serious situation

:28:06.:28:08.

when you've got Conservative councils saying we can't cope

:28:09.:28:11.

with that 15% increase. Social care is a challenge

:28:12.:28:13.

for our political generation, I think

:28:14.:28:15.

everybody realises that. But why hand it to local

:28:16.:28:16.

councils to sort out? sense, I think this

:28:17.:28:19.

is an opportunity I wouldn't see devolving

:28:20.:28:23.

this in a negative sense, I think this

:28:24.:28:25.

is an opportunity for local councils

:28:26.:28:26.

to bring forward innovative ways of delivering social care and indeed

:28:27.:28:28.

other services in their community? How innovative can you be, Philip,

:28:29.:28:31.

when you do not have the money? If you don't have

:28:32.:28:34.

the money how can you Well, mergers is what's

:28:35.:28:36.

being suggested. It is but next week we see the end

:28:37.:28:39.

of our family Centre in Chipping Norton

:28:40.:28:42.

where I represent. You know, it's not

:28:43.:28:43.

going to save money. Social services, the health care

:28:44.:28:46.

are under so much pressure and Before people get into crisis

:28:47.:28:49.

it's being wiped out. I just think that local council

:28:50.:28:52.

areas are best placed to be able to work out what their demands

:28:53.:28:56.

are, now, and what their demands will be in the future and therefore

:28:57.:28:59.

through this sort of consultation which they often had

:29:00.:29:02.

with communities, as they arrive at services that people

:29:03.:29:04.

are happening with. If they have the resources.

:29:05.:29:06.

If they have the resources. That's the one of the specifics

:29:07.:29:12.

that we're talking about coming here, it's the major shake-up

:29:13.:29:14.

of our health service, the one STPs, sustainability

:29:15.:29:17.

and transformation plans, drawn up by 44 regions

:29:18.:29:19.

across the country and health bosses say these proposals

:29:20.:29:21.

will map out a path to help the NHS Critics say the plans

:29:22.:29:25.

have been shrouded in mystery. Our Hampshire and Isle of Wight

:29:26.:29:28.

political reporter Jess Parker What we are faced with is

:29:29.:29:31.

a collapse, and we're It's not so much

:29:32.:29:43.

treating the patients, 267 operations have

:29:44.:29:46.

been postponed at I work in A, and that

:29:47.:29:52.

is where they then come, and we are under

:29:53.:29:57.

great stress as well. It's no secret that our health

:29:58.:29:59.

service is under pressure. Probably not, but it

:30:00.:30:07.

stands for sustainability Regional health bosses

:30:08.:30:13.

across the country have been asked to draw them up to look at

:30:14.:30:19.

savings but also how services cope Now, the STP for Hampshire

:30:20.:30:24.

and the Isle of Wight Lots of the detail isn't clear yet

:30:25.:30:27.

but proposals across the patch include cutting requirement for up

:30:28.:30:35.

to 300 hospital beds, centralising some specialist services, selling

:30:36.:30:37.

off nearly a fifth of NHS buildings and focusing on community

:30:38.:30:40.

and preventative care so that So that's this area

:30:41.:30:42.

but what about others Oxfordshire's health

:30:43.:30:54.

bosses have repeatedly delayed releasing plans for how

:30:55.:30:59.

they'll save ?200 million from the county's NHS budget but we are now

:31:00.:31:01.

starting to get details. Some proposals mean

:31:02.:31:08.

moving services away from Banbury Horton Hospital to hear

:31:09.:31:11.

at the John Radcliffe in Oxford, something that will be

:31:12.:31:15.

very controversial. There are also claims that the plan

:31:16.:31:18.

will mean closing all of Oxfordshire's community

:31:19.:31:21.

hospitals replacing them with four hubs,

:31:22.:31:23.

but those behind health plans

:31:24.:31:24.

say options for those services are still being

:31:25.:31:27.

worked on. The brunt of the cuts

:31:28.:31:31.

in the Royal County Here in the west

:31:32.:31:34.

surgeries will need to save nearly ?60 million by 2021,

:31:35.:31:39.

while the Royal Berkshire Hospital will be expected to save

:31:40.:31:41.

a further ?45 million. In the east, Wexham Park

:31:42.:31:47.

and Heatherwoods hospitals are expanding, so it's going to be

:31:48.:31:50.

tough for GPs there too. The emphasis here in

:31:51.:31:54.

Berkshire is very much on encouraging people to do much more

:31:55.:31:56.

to look after themselves. In Dorset part of the

:31:57.:32:02.

reorganisation includes centralising and the provision here

:32:03.:32:08.

in Poole, with many people having further to travel and some GPs

:32:09.:32:10.

warning that lives could be at risk. There is also a blueprint to create

:32:11.:32:16.

new purpose-built medical centres or hubs with dozens of doctors

:32:17.:32:20.

treating thousands of patients, but with

:32:21.:32:23.

the decimation of the rural

:32:24.:32:25.

bus network, in many smaller villages there

:32:26.:32:27.

is a real concern that anyone dependent on the buses

:32:28.:32:33.

would not be able to get to And some doctors fear people

:32:34.:32:36.

are blind to the path This idea of consolidation

:32:37.:32:40.

to save money. A lot of patients aren't

:32:41.:32:43.

going to like that because it does mean

:32:44.:32:47.

that their local hospital,

:32:48.:32:48.

their local maternity units would be there

:32:49.:32:51.

when they need it and they will need

:32:52.:32:53.

to travel a lot further. Dr Helen Salisbury

:32:54.:32:56.

stood in last year's Whitney by-election for the National

:32:57.:33:03.

Health Action Party. There is a massive

:33:04.:33:05.

democratic deficit here. If somebody came out

:33:06.:33:08.

and said this is What I would like to do

:33:09.:33:10.

is completely change the way the NHS is run

:33:11.:33:14.

and organised and how many hospitals we have,

:33:15.:33:17.

vote for me! Do you know, I don't

:33:18.:33:21.

think they would have But health leaders like Julia Ross

:33:22.:33:24.

are giving the STP She says for Surrey Hartlands

:33:25.:33:29.

they aren't planning to close services but make them more

:33:30.:33:33.

efficient to help a changing Wouldn't you prefer it if rather

:33:34.:33:35.

than having to make the savings that the government

:33:36.:33:44.

would just give you more money? Well, of course I would,

:33:45.:33:47.

in an ideal world, but we're not in an ideal

:33:48.:33:49.

world and we have to live within the envelope

:33:50.:33:52.

that is available to us. People, the public,

:33:53.:33:54.

they don't even know what a STP is and this is a pretty big

:33:55.:33:56.

transformation of our health I don't think the public needs

:33:57.:33:59.

to know what a STP is. What we do really do

:34:00.:34:02.

need though is for local people to get involved and be

:34:03.:34:05.

interested in thinking and talking with us about how we can best

:34:06.:34:08.

redesign health care services to be Well, the STPs across the south

:34:09.:34:12.

look at saving over and add that up any way you like,

:34:13.:34:22.

we're not talking small change. the long-term solution

:34:23.:34:30.

or are they a bit of a short-term gap because we have

:34:31.:34:35.

run out of money? The challenge that we all face,

:34:36.:34:37.

whichever political party who The challenge that we all face,

:34:38.:34:47.

whichever political party we represent all support, is that

:34:48.:34:50.

long-term trends are to increase demand, that care it self

:34:51.:34:52.

is changing, 80% of the NHS expenditure is on chronic care,

:34:53.:34:55.

and that where that care should take is also

:34:56.:34:57.

changing, and so therefore the structural changes

:34:58.:35:00.

required which having just watched your video

:35:01.:35:04.

is affecting the entire region should

:35:05.:35:05.

not necessarily be seen through the prism of cost

:35:06.:35:07.

saving, just the prism of actually the health care

:35:08.:35:11.

being changed and it is better that the patients get treated

:35:12.:35:14.

for their chronic ailments closer to home.

:35:15.:35:16.

People get that, but this does seem to be going on behind-the-scenes,

:35:17.:35:19.

and what mandate is there, as they were asking that?

:35:20.:35:24.

This is reorganisation on a big scale.

:35:25.:35:26.

First of all I would challenge the idea that

:35:27.:35:28.

they do get it because as you well know in the previous parliament and

:35:29.:35:32.

indeed prior to the 2010 election, I produced

:35:33.:35:34.

and discussed a plan for the transformation

:35:35.:35:35.

of hospital care in my area.

:35:36.:35:37.

And at the time it was deemed controversial, this and that,

:35:38.:35:41.

People fight against change, any change?

:35:42.:35:45.

Well, what they first heard, and unfortunately the NHS action

:35:46.:35:48.

party is on Tories were jumping on this,

:35:49.:35:57.

they hear hospital closure and think bad.

:35:58.:36:02.

When I actually went to the presence of talking and I had

:36:03.:36:05.

six meetings around the region, people understood that what I was

:36:06.:36:07.

actually saying is that I was changing where the care should be

:36:08.:36:10.

delivered, so you would have more community facilities delivering safe

:36:11.:36:12.

outpatient appointments to see specialists, but then you would

:36:13.:36:15.

travel further to the hub hospital for acute and surgical care.

:36:16.:36:17.

They understood this and became more supportive of it.

:36:18.:36:19.

I actually think it doesn't just need an explanation, it need

:36:20.:36:24.

cross-party support because this I think is what is in the best

:36:25.:36:27.

If you were in government, Labour would need to do

:36:28.:36:32.

some sort of transformation like this.

:36:33.:36:33.

They would not need to cut which is what this is 22 billion

:36:34.:36:38.

This is about where your priorities are and as far

:36:39.:36:41.

as I am concerned I'm sure the great British public,

:36:42.:36:44.

These are dangerous and these are irresponsible cuts.

:36:45.:36:50.

Losing the A in the Horton, losing our

:36:51.:36:54.

maternity hospital in Chipping Norton, it's not an option.

:36:55.:36:56.

Deer Park surgery is chatting with a patient list of four and a half

:36:57.:36:59.

You can't defend every closure if in the longer run

:37:00.:37:05.

But it's not, they're calling it care closer to home.

:37:06.:37:08.

How is moving A at Banbury closer to home, when you

:37:09.:37:11.

Oxford JR can not absorb this number of patients,

:37:12.:37:15.

Hypothetically, you have a car accident can we don't go to Horton,

:37:16.:37:22.

The reason is is because John Radcliffe is a trauma centre.

:37:23.:37:26.

Horton Hospital is most certainly not a trauma centre.

:37:27.:37:28.

What is your definition of a A department?

:37:29.:37:30.

Does it deliver a 24 hour cardiac service?

:37:31.:37:32.

Does it deliver a 24-hour stroke unit?

:37:33.:37:34.

Philip, I could also give you a really good example.

:37:35.:37:38.

It is not responsible of politicians...

:37:39.:37:40.

A woman in labour in Chipping Norton...

:37:41.:37:41.

A woman in labour in Chipping Norton, she goes to the

:37:42.:37:46.

maternity hospital, she is transferred to Banbury, and this

:37:47.:37:54.

sees complications, there is not the staff there.

:37:55.:37:56.

It is to do with the quality of obstetric care.

:37:57.:38:03.

The Horton was supposed to have obstetric care and

:38:04.:38:08.

it hasn't got it, it's just got nurses, hasn't it?

:38:09.:38:10.

The point I'm trying to make, Peter, is

:38:11.:38:13.

that if it was simply about finance this would be actually easier.

:38:14.:38:16.

If you want to provide a decent obstetric service

:38:17.:38:18.

service in a hospital, you

:38:19.:38:19.

need to be able to justifiably employ so many obstetricians on a

:38:20.:38:22.

rota. It is not possible to justify that

:38:23.:38:24.

at the Horton Hospital, it is only possible to justify

:38:25.:38:27.

that in certain numbers of hospitals

:38:28.:38:29.

in the That woman in labour

:38:30.:38:30.

with pre-eclampsia... If the ambulance even turns up

:38:31.:38:33.

within an hour, it's The answer isn't just

:38:34.:38:35.

more money, is it? I think the NHS needs

:38:36.:38:38.

to be invested in. Of course there's more pressures

:38:39.:38:41.

on it, therefore you must invest in it, you cannot cut a vital

:38:42.:38:43.

service like the NHS. We've got the political

:38:44.:38:46.

political answer to this is to take party politics out of it,

:38:47.:38:49.

to have a cross-party approach to the provision of hospital

:38:50.:38:53.

care across the country. Now, our regular round-up

:38:54.:38:55.

of the political week in Ministers got out of

:38:56.:39:00.

London in force this week to promote the new

:39:01.:39:09.

industrial strategy. In Reading, the Chancellor met

:39:10.:39:12.

apprentices at Microsoft. In Portsmouth, meanwhile, floods

:39:13.:39:16.

Minister to raise copy was doing her --Therese Coffey doing

:39:17.:39:26.

a queen Knute impression, confirming it was going

:39:27.:39:27.

to cost ?150 million The message

:39:28.:39:33.

from trade secretary Liam Fox at Banbury motorsport company pro

:39:34.:39:35.

drive was go Cut funding for family centre

:39:36.:39:40.

in Oxford led to protests. Donington doorstep have

:39:41.:39:47.

cut sessions from six The Solent devolution deal is dead

:39:48.:39:49.

in the water, killed by infighting and disagreement

:39:50.:39:52.

according to Portsmouth's Donna We're losing out because we haven't

:39:53.:39:54.

got our act together. Finally, our Oxfordshire MP wants

:39:55.:39:57.

a get out of jail free Early release because she says

:39:58.:40:00.

they have low reoffending That's the Sunday politics

:40:01.:40:05.

in the south for this week. Thank you to my guests,

:40:06.:40:13.

Laetisia Carter from Oxfordshire, Doctor Philip

:40:14.:40:16.

Lee from Berkshire. Don't forget, you can

:40:17.:40:18.

keep up with the Sunday There's the address at the bottom

:40:19.:40:20.

of the screen, featuring a certain Dr Julian Lewis

:40:21.:40:26.

from the new Forest, at the moment, but for now,

:40:27.:40:28.

back to Andrew. air-pollution. Thank you for being

:40:29.:40:33.

here. Welcome back and let's get back

:40:34.:40:39.

to Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens from seven

:40:40.:40:44.

mainly Muslim countries. Earlier, the Labour leader,

:40:45.:40:49.

Jeremy Corbyn, told ITV that a state visit by President Trump to the UK

:40:50.:40:52.

should not go ahead I think it would be totally wrong

:40:53.:41:05.

for him to be coming here while that situation is going on. He has to be

:41:06.:41:11.

challenged on this. So until the ban is lifted, you don't think he should

:41:12.:41:14.

come? I am not happy about him coming here until the ban is lifted.

:41:15.:41:19.

Look at what is happening with those countries. What will be the long

:41:20.:41:23.

term effect of this on the rest of the world? Is this state visit going

:41:24.:41:28.

to become a matter of huge political debate in this country? It would be

:41:29.:41:35.

anyway, but it is a temporary ban, so Jeremy Corbyn is on safe

:41:36.:41:38.

territory. It will be over by April and he is not due to come until

:41:39.:41:42.

summer. But there are three bands. There is the 90 day ban on people

:41:43.:41:47.

coming from the southern countries. There is the 120 day ban on refugees

:41:48.:41:51.

from anywhere in the world, and there is the indefinite ban on

:41:52.:41:56.

Syrian refugees. So there may still be some bans in place. But bear in

:41:57.:42:02.

mind the number of Syrian refugees and refugees from around the world

:42:03.:42:05.

that President Obama took over his eight years. There were years when

:42:06.:42:09.

it was not even up to 50 Syrian refugees that were taken since the

:42:10.:42:15.

civil war has started. This is an ongoing American policy. 12,500

:42:16.:42:19.

Syrian refugees have come in the last year. Before that, it was a

:42:20.:42:29.

hundred and sometimes under 50. But they are reasonable numbers now,

:42:30.:42:31.

although not something America couldn't absorb. Donald Trump is

:42:32.:42:38.

discovering that being a president is different from being a business

:42:39.:42:41.

man. And Jeremy Corbyn has to learn the art of leadership, having been a

:42:42.:42:45.

backbench MP, and has struggled to do it, as we are about to discuss

:42:46.:42:50.

with article 50. With this, you have to dramatise the politics of this,

:42:51.:42:54.

and this is what he has done with that statement. Most controversial

:42:55.:42:58.

ever state visit now? I would imagine so. Even regardless of any

:42:59.:43:03.

opposition from the opposition to trump's physical presence in the

:43:04.:43:09.

streets, the presence of demonstrators will be an

:43:10.:43:13.

international new story. If trump's demands for the details of the visit

:43:14.:43:17.

are quite as extreme and as picky as some of the Sunday papers have

:43:18.:43:20.

suggested, that could also be the source of controversy. What do you

:43:21.:43:24.

have in mind? Isn't he anxious that only certain members of the Royal

:43:25.:43:30.

Family turn up? He doesn't want a one-on-one with Prince Charles. Who

:43:31.:43:35.

would, though! Some people may be sympathetic on that. It is the one

:43:36.:43:42.

subject where he is in line with British opinion. Playing golf in

:43:43.:43:46.

front of the Queen may be a higher priority. We have to be realistic.

:43:47.:43:51.

Given the other people from around the world that the Queen has played

:43:52.:43:54.

host to, like the Chinese president and Saudi kings and the like, we

:43:55.:43:57.

have had a lot worse come to visit than Donald Trump. Brexit - how

:43:58.:44:03.

serious our neighbour's problems on this? Very serious, but they often

:44:04.:44:08.

are with Europe. Labour were splits when we joined in the 70s, and still

:44:09.:44:15.

won general elections, in 1974 and 1975. There were all over the place

:44:16.:44:18.

in terms of the single currency. Blair said one thing one day and the

:44:19.:44:21.

opposite the next day. Brown did the same.

:44:22.:44:27.

Brown usually set the opposite of what Blair said! They won landslide

:44:28.:44:36.

because they have the political skills to put all of the pressure on

:44:37.:44:40.

the major government, even though their position on the single

:44:41.:44:44.

currency was the same as major's. It is about with Europe the art of

:44:45.:44:49.

leadership. You have to be a political conjuror, you have to

:44:50.:44:53.

dissemble authoritative leak when you lead a divided party over

:44:54.:44:57.

Europe, and Jeremy Corbyn to his personal credit cannot dissemble,

:44:58.:45:02.

but he's not an individual person on this. He's leading a split party in

:45:03.:45:06.

danger of falling apart, and you need the skills of a political

:45:07.:45:12.

conjurer. Clearly self-evidently he's not displaying it because we

:45:13.:45:16.

are talking about the chaotic split which will manifest itself in that

:45:17.:45:20.

vote on Article 50. Labour and the SNP and the Lib Dems too I would

:45:21.:45:25.

have thought will all put amendments down to the short Article 50 piece

:45:26.:45:29.

of legislation. Do they have any chance of succeeding? No substantial

:45:30.:45:35.

world is changing amendments. I don't think Theresa May has much to

:45:36.:45:39.

worry about actually. I think if anything the reason she's pushed the

:45:40.:45:43.

legal appeal is that it helps her to have a big chunk of the media and a

:45:44.:45:48.

big chunk of public opinion worrying that the popular will of last year

:45:49.:45:53.

is in danger of being overturned and so even if it was a completely

:45:54.:45:56.

hopeless legal appeal, it generated headlines for a week that as an

:45:57.:46:02.

incumbent Prime Minister trying to execute believe vote suits you

:46:03.:46:06.

politically. I think it is a much bigger problem for Labour, we've

:46:07.:46:10.

already seen some Shadow Cabinet issues in the previous week. You

:46:11.:46:14.

have got to remember it's not just a majority of Labour MPs that want to

:46:15.:46:19.

stay in the European Union, but a majority of Labour constituencies,

:46:20.:46:24.

and a majority of labour macro voters wanted to stay as well so we

:46:25.:46:29.

have three lines of division. One amendment that might get through if

:46:30.:46:32.

it was called, and it is in the hands of the Deputy speaker who will

:46:33.:46:36.

be chairing these debates, and that will be an amendment that said

:46:37.:46:40.

regardless of how the Europeans treat our citizens in Europe, all EU

:46:41.:46:46.

citizens here will be afforded full rights to remain. That might get

:46:47.:46:52.

through. It may indeed and lots of backbench MPs would backpack. We all

:46:53.:46:58.

know there will not be mass deportations, it is not legal, it

:46:59.:47:04.

won't happen, it is simply a negotiating tactic. I agree with

:47:05.:47:07.

those who say you shouldn't be using people as a negotiating tactic, but

:47:08.:47:11.

the reality as it is the EU leaders that are doing that because it's

:47:12.:47:17.

already been offered. The remain as should be attacking the EU

:47:18.:47:21.

governments for not offering that in return. Article 50 is the easy bit

:47:22.:47:25.

for her. I agree with other members of the panel that she will get it

:47:26.:47:29.

through and the court case almost helps her by getting an easy journey

:47:30.:47:33.

through Parliament, then it gets really difficult. All of this has

:47:34.:47:38.

been a preamble and once she begins that nightmarish negotiation, there

:47:39.:47:43.

will be opportunities for a smart opposition to make quite a lot of

:47:44.:47:49.

the turmoil to come. Whether Labour are capable of that, let's wait and

:47:50.:47:55.

see. The divisions in Labour are nightmarish for them but by no means

:47:56.:47:59.

unprecedented. Arguably it was much more complicated in the early 1970s

:48:00.:48:04.

when you had Titans on either side, big ex-cabinet ministers... Tony

:48:05.:48:12.

Benn... Michael Foot, they were all at it. The fundamental issue of in

:48:13.:48:19.

or out, and they won two elections, so you have got to be really clever.

:48:20.:48:25.

But also how money more Labour MPs will resign. We shall find out this

:48:26.:48:26.

week. The Daily Politics is back

:48:27.:48:29.

tomorrow at midday and all I'll be back here

:48:30.:48:32.

on BBC one next week. Remember - if it's Sunday,

:48:33.:48:35.

it's the Sunday Politics. a free five-a-side tournament

:48:36.:49:09.

that's for everyone. For more information,

:49:10.:49:23.

go to the Get Inspired website.

:49:24.:49:27.

Andrew Neil and Peter Henley are joined by Nigel Farage, MEP. The Political Panel consists of Janan Ganesh of the Financial Times, Julia Hartley-Brewer of talkRADIO and journalist Steve Richards.