04/11/2012 Sunday Politics Wales

Later in the programme: Rail electrification for South

Wales is on the timetable, but what about the case for rail

electrification in the north? We'll hear from the Welsh Secretary,

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2058 seconds

Hello. Coming up on the Sunday Politics Wales:

There's been much talk about rail electrification in the south, but

what about in the north? And we continue our look at the

Police Commissioner elections in Wales. This week we proceed in a

southerly direction. Joining me are two AMs - north and

south. Plaid Cymru's Dafydd Elis- Thomas and the Conservative, Nick

Ramsay. Let's follow one quickly from the

discussion we just heard about the US elections. It is a very tight

contest. Maybe or endorsements will make a difference. Who would you be

voting for? I will be coming out in favour of Barack Obama tomorrow.

The Why? Because I think the whole issue of the way politics in the

United States has been handled, the division between Congress and

presidency, I disastrous for government in the country. I am

critical of it Barack Obama not being green enough. I think it is

going to come down to the economy. I think it is wide open. I am going

to go for Mitt Romney, partly because my crew leader in the

assembly, Andrew RT Davies, announced he was related to Mitt

Romney a few weeks ago. I don't know where they are the Mitt Romney

will be able to get in touch to tell us whether he is related or

not. We will be back with you shortly.

Politicians, councils and business groups need to work together to

make the case for the electrification of the North Wales

rail line, according to the Secretary of State for Wales, David

Jones. He's told the Sunday Politics Wales that meetings have

already taken place between the UK and Welsh governments to try to

make progress on investment in a faster train service to help boost

the region's economy. Here's Brian Meechan.

The Welsh government believes a ratification of the North Wales

Line will help tackle poverty by creating businesses and jobs across

the region. The town is also a gateway to Europe with its links to

Ireland. Supporters of high-speed rail say it is not just about the

economic growth it will bring to this region, it also creates a

vital transport link between Ireland and North East Wales and

then on to Liverpool and Manchester. Experts put the cost at �300

million. The local MP believes that will build on the money that has

gone into the West Coast line in England. There has been huge

investment on the West Coast rail. Some �9 billion has been spent

already but it only goes as far as Chester. We needed to go west

further. It is an international link and we need have an

international status. The UK government is planning high-speed

rail link that goes from London at to Manchester and Leeds. It has

also pledged to the electrification of the line not just a Cardiff but

the Swansea. Councils across the region say North Wales cannot be

left behind. What we have not had is this feeling of somebody knows

what the plan is for Wales from infrastructure. We have had the

development of the North Wales road that has made a difference but

somehow nobody in government at Westminster level, or in Wales, has

really got this picture of, if OK, what is North Wales going to the

light in 10 years' time in terms of infrastructure? Business leaders

argue that there needs to be a serious look at the benefits.

would like them to prepare the business case. I would like to see

that happen very quickly and I would like the business case to be

implemented relatively quickly. But it is important that we forecast

and quantify exactly what that business bounce, that economic

benefit, is actually going to be. Llandudno railway station is to

benefit from over �5 million worth of investment from the Welsh and UK

governments. It will mean improvements to the front page and

a new ticket office and that will be delivered by 2014. It is a major

Investment, whatever way you look at it and that is why we need to

build the business case sooner. We have got to convince the Department

for transport that it is a good Investment, which is why we want to

start the discussions sooner rather than later. The UK and Welsh

governments have already held meetings about electrification.

Rectification is not cheap and its supporters F - except that these

are challenging times with the public finances but they say the

economic benefits it will bring, including creating jobs, means it

has got to be a priority for North Wales.

Let's get the reaction from our guests. The Secretary of State,

David Jones, said there that he and others must persuade many agencies

to go ahead with this. Is he going to be able to do that? I think he

will. David Jones is very good at persuasion and that is what it

needs. If we have had a discussion about rectification in South Wales

for a long time and we have got what we wanted there. North Wales

must not be left behind. The sooner we see a letter vacation in the not

as well, if the better for the Welsh economy. At the moment, the

timetable runs almost hourly out of Chester. It makes, it is not make

any sense at all to run a diesel locomotive under electric overhead

wires. I believe that should be done. But we have a huge problem

with the main road in terms of lorries. When there are divergence,

they cannot the Conwy Valley on roads which are not built for that

sort of traffic so we need to look for rectification for freight, if

to take freight off the road as well. But we also need to look at

Chester to Newport. Once you have done those two, it makes sense to

have an rectification with in Wales as well off because the valleys

will already be electrified. There will be plenty of it pilots' give

some people have a fair way. The economic dimension, the case was

made in the peace there, but last week we were talking about

infrastructure spending and how that helps the economy. How would

this fits into that? If it is not just the passengers, he it is the

freight as well. North Wales is the main road to Ireland. You can take

freight off the road. But there has got to be a good business case. We

saw delays and problems with the electrification of the South Wales

line off because I don't think the right arguments were made early on

enough with a that business case. But we have seen that the UK

government are receptive as long as the right arguments are made. David

Jones has an interest at their and he is the perfect person to push

this. Infrastructure is very important. As the economy improves

and we come out of recession, if we have got to have that so we are

best suited to meet the challenges. Timetable wise, plenty of people

have got things to say about timetables for railway lines, but

in terms of this project, when would you expect it to happen?

There is a clear series of linked Investment. We have got the Swansea

Investment, which I issue now is paid for completely by the UK

government. I am looking to you because you are a supporter of the

UK government. But then there will be the electrification for the

valleys and that is very important in terms of Cardiff and Newport as

commuting and so on. But I am arguing not just to look at Chester

but also looking at Chester down to Newport, because you have got there

already something like 25 trains per day from Dewsbury to Cardiff

because you have got the Liverpool link and the Manchester link and in

order to get an effective integrated service, there is lots

we need to look at. It is a bit like a broad band. Once you have

got one piece, everyone else is missing out. The UK government, I

am pleased they are doing what they are doing, but they are creating

their own he pretends to have a more rectification. But we have a

very important point in the economic cycle. If we put

investment in now, it will pay dividends in 20 years' time.

will leave it there for now. There are calls for a new inquiry into

the abuse of children in care homes in North Wales in the Nineties and

Eighties. Keith Towler has at the request. - backs. He joins us from

our Swansea studio now. Thank you for joining us. Just Phyllis in,

why are you calling for a new inquiry? What we have seen in the

last 48 hours is some very strong evidence that victims who suffered

abuse in North Wales children's homes were denied the opportunity

to talk in full about what happened to them. This victim says that 30

per cent of what he wanted to say he was not allowed to say and it

was not clear to him why. By today's standards, that is

completely unacceptable. The fact he has come forward with that means

we have got to take that seriously and the police and others should

have the opportunity to fully investigate what he has to say.

understand that any decisions will be taken by the first minister,

Carwyn Jones. Have you been in touch with him? What would you want

to impress upon him? I have not had the opportunity to get in touch

with the First Minister yet. I will write to him tomorrow morning. I

think what we need to do is sit down and understand what this is it

in is saying. We need to understand the terms of reference of the child

abuse report and what they were able to look at and what they were

not able to look at. F over the last 48 hours, people are saying

that maybe people are being protected, maybe the establishment

is being protected. By today's standards, whenever you look at the

allegations that a victim is making, it is always the wrong thing to try

and defend an individual or an institution in favour of looking

fully at what happened to somebody who suffered abuse. That is what I

will be saying to the first minister. Has anybody come forward

and contacted you or your office in recent weeks regarding any

allegations dating back to the Seventies or Eighties? If no, but

it is an important point that there might be people who are picking up

what is happening in the media and if they do want to get in touch, I

would be pleased to hear from them. My response has been to try to

support what this victim has said. Thank you very much for your time,

Keith Towler. Dafydd Elis-Thomas, what do you

make for the call for a new inquiry? I fully support his call.

I was aware of some of these issues and I discussed them and I heard

this was the worst job. I think we have got to make sure that at all

times the evidence presented by people who have been abuse should

be for front, at the forefront of our concerns. I am sure most people

would agree with the sentiments from Keith Towler, who are calling

for a new inquiry. Exactly. If you look at the original inquiry, and I

think that, at the time, if that was needed, but things have moved

on. All sorts of rumblings are going on. It is better that all

this is dealt with in an inquiry. We have a Children's Commissioner

now, if we did not have that then. I think Keith Towler is the person

to progress this with the First Minister when he gets an

opportunity. It was the very horror of child abuse in Wales, in North

Wales in particular, which brought about the appointment of the

Children's Commissioner. This is a job for Keith Towler to do,

particularly for the police to investigate, but it may also be

something that the first minister might want to make a statement

about this coming week when the Assembly will be meeting, and I

hope he does. It's less than two weeks now until

polling day for the elections to choose the first ever Police and

Crime Commissioners. It'll mean a big change in policing with the new

commissioners replacing local police authorities, giving them

control over budgets, priorities and appointing the local chief

constable. We have four forces in Wales. We've already featured Gwent

and North Wales, this week, Mark Hannaby reports on South Wales.

This is the headquarters of South Wales Police in Bridgend. The force

covers an area containing more than 40 per cent of Wales's operation.

That area extends from Swansea and the Gower in the west through the

South Wales valleys and the Glamorgan close to Cardiff in the

east. Recorded crime here fell six per cent in the year to June.

Responsibilities include policing major sporting events, that

included the Olympic football in the summer. The budget is �249

million. Total savings of �46 million are planned by 2015. 292

police officer posts will have gone off but there will be around 175

more faith community support officers. - community support

officers. There are four candidates. The winner will be responsible for

appointing the Chief Constable, setting up policing priorities,

reporting on progress and setting up budgets. Tony Verderame, a

businessman and chairman of the Cardiff Older Persons Forum is

standing as an independent. I think it should remain independent,

impartial and deliver a service where it is needed most. It should

not come under the umbrella of the politicians. I think it must have

knowledge within the community as - and experience of what can be done

within the community and deliver what communities need, not what the

politicians want to. For another independent candidate is Michael

Baker, a lawyer and former police officer. I am a man of great

integrity, having been a police officer for 30 years. I know how

the police service works. I am a listener, I am also a commercial

mediator, which means I know how to listen to people and take their

views on board. I am not afraid of the police service. I have taken

action against the police service and tell them to account. I can

take forward complete independence and impartiality. The Conservative

candidate is Caroline Jones. She has worked in the Prison Service.

My priorities are to get more police out on the street by cutting

the bureaucracy which was left by the previous administration. If the

police were spend half-an-hour taking an incident from a member of

the public and then they would go back and spend four-and-a-half

hours dealing with the paperwork regarding that. Obviously, one of

my aims would be to cut the level of bureaucracy and have at the

police engage more with the public. Lay the's candidate is Alun Michael,

the former Cardiff and Penarth MP and the former minister responsible

for crime. It is absolutely crucial that we get the right person with

the authority to all the police to account but you also cut crime and

work with communities in order to make sure that every community in

South Wales is safer in the future and they have been in the past. I

think it is a big challenge at a time of cuts which is why I decided

to stand down from Parliament and often myself for election off but I

believe it is crucial if because it affects every member of the public.

The UK Government says if commissioners will not be there to

run police forces but to hold them to account. Floating is on 15th

November. - voting. You can find a more by going to a

hour online pages. The address is on the screen. We'll have a look at

Dyfed-Powys next week. Now it's time for a quick look back at some

of the political stories of this week in 60 seconds.

Tour find council cost up with almost 2500 and use laptops after

it for more than 1000 of them for a Welsh government-backed project for

school pupils. The council said that he took his should have been

shared with another local authorities will stop the first

minister and the Welsh secretary welcomed confirmation that Hitachi

is survived nuclear project Horizon. Up to 6000 jobs could be created

while the new reactors are built on Anglesey. The UK government said it

would not challenge the new law off to put VAT - English and Welsh on

the same level at the Assembly. And the Anglesey MP urged the UK

government to protect the great British pint by scrapping a rise in

the attacks. Ministers rejected the call to scrap the be a duty

escalator amid fears costs are leading to pubs closing and the

Tories going bust. - breweries going bust.

Let's have a final chat with our guests. What do you think of the

plea to bring an end to the escalator? We have been talking

about this for a long time. But it has got to happen. He is very easy

to buy very cheap alcohol in supermarkets and get funds, which

are the heads of many rural communities, are going to the wall.

I think they should be a dispensation for community hopes

like pubs and I'm glad it is being progress. Would you endorse that

call? We are talking about pints. am a pig advocate of these new

breweries that are springing up all over Wales. I was launching one in

North Wales, but you can't have local beer without having local

pubs in which to sell them. We can continue the pub talk after the

programme. Another thing we have touched on, the news that a catchy

have fought Horizon. That gives the project a bit of a boost. This is

very exciting business. This is the advanced boiling water reactor, and

it is not a big kettle. It is advanced Canadian technology. It is

a very important Investment. It is a hugely important and also

provides us with low carbon energy and an opportunity to build a power

renewables. Was this a welcome boost? Definitely. 10 years down

the line, the lights are going to be going out. I think we are going

to be going down to four per cent of electricity surplus which is not

enough. We have got to have whatever power we can from

renewables and nuclear power. If you want to deal with carbon

emissions, nuclear power has got to be the way ahead. They are also