Browse content similar to 11/11/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Later in the programme we hear calls from the former broadcasting | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
minister Kim Howells for more resignation from the BBC in the | :01:36. | :01:46. | |
:01:46. | :01:46. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2143 seconds | :01:46. | :37:29. | |
wake of the news like child abuse London on this Sunday Politics | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
Wales we will bring you more on the aftermath of the resignation of | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
George Entwistle but we will ask is it distracting from the issues of | :37:39. | :37:45. | |
historic child abuse in North Wales children's homes? I am joined by | :37:45. | :37:54. | |
the former Welsh Office minister and Conservative MP Jonathan Evans | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
and the M P Mark Drakeford. We will speak shortly but first the former | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
Labour broadcasting minister Kim Howells thinks more resignations | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
will follow that of the BBC Director General George Entwistle | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
who stepped down over the handling of a Newsnight investigation in | :38:12. | :38:18. | |
North Wales. I don't doubt that there will be resignations. Those | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
there will be resignations. Those people who should have been the | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
conduit for what was happening on Newsnight through to top management | :38:25. | :38:32. | |
have failed and that is obvious, but the BBC Trust, app which was | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
this relatively new organisation which was constructed to oversee | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
the BBC and to ensure its standards remained high, that has failed as | :38:42. | :38:49. | |
well so it would not surprise me if Lord Patten resigns. That was Kim | :38:49. | :38:58. | |
Howells. Let's get a perspective from North East Wales. The former | :38:58. | :39:06. | |
journalist who worked on covering the inquiry can skate is with us. | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
Let's gather your reaction to George Entwistle's resignation and | :39:11. | :39:17. | |
comments from Kim Howells. Clearly there were dreadful shortcomings in | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
journalism within the Newsnight team but to be quite honest, I am | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
more concerned with getting to the truth of child abuse in North Wales | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
than I am at looking at the management structure of the BBC. We | :39:30. | :39:35. | |
have seen something of a shift in focus from looking at abuse victims | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
to people who were wrongly accused. We will only get to a satisfactory | :39:40. | :39:46. | |
position where we get to the truth and deliver justice by an open | :39:46. | :39:53. | |
publication of the report. Do the revelations over the past 48 hours | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
of mistaken identity, do they do anything to undermine the enquiries | :39:58. | :40:04. | |
the Prime Minister has initiated? No, they must continue. My fear is | :40:04. | :40:10. | |
that what is happening with the BBC at the moment and there will be | :40:10. | :40:16. | |
subsequent attacks on the BBC, but my fear is that journalists may be | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
more timid in the way they pursued proves regarding child abuse. It | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
may harm the prospects of people who were abused coming forward with | :40:25. | :40:31. | |
essential information, but the inquiries must go ahead. The Prime | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
Minister has initiated a review of the inquiry to see whether terms of | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
reference were wide enough and whether they were interpreted in | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
the right way. If that review concludes there were shortcomings | :40:44. | :40:49. | |
then a Hills borough model type of inquiry is necessary. The public | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
must have faith in that inquiry and witnesses and abuse victims must be | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
able to trust it. But you are an Assembly Member for the area up | :40:59. | :41:05. | |
where much of the abuse took place. What are people saying there and | :41:05. | :41:15. | |
:41:15. | :41:18. | ||
what have they been saying to you Passions are running high. People | :41:18. | :41:25. | |
want the truth. We are living in a world very different to wear the | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
Waterhouse inquiry took place. We now have the internet. People who | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
were not connected to what happened here are now being linked to people | :41:34. | :41:39. | |
filling in the missing pieces. It is essential this issue is | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
investigated fully because otherwise people will not get the | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
justice they deserve and people who are innocent may be wrongly | :41:46. | :41:53. | |
connected to child abuse. You say we live in a different time Cup. I | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
know you have proposed legislation to deal with helping those who come | :41:56. | :42:02. | |
out of care. What does the fact that you have to bring that | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
legislation say about how we as a society treat people in care to | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
this day? I think collectively we all need to put our hands up and | :42:12. | :42:20. | |
say, we failed collectively. Media, politicians, people in that in the | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
past 10 years there have been concerns about the original inquiry | :42:23. | :42:29. | |
but we did not act on them and that is because we have a feast to | :42:29. | :42:34. | |
famine mentality when it comes to children in care. We give large | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
focus to scandals and then children in care are left without any media | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
focus and without sufficient attention by the public. We need to | :42:44. | :42:47. | |
move to a situation where we are determined to ensure that the | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
children who may not be our own but carrying care are looked after | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
properly and protected. The scheme I have been working with will | :42:56. | :43:04. | |
extend the rights of care children beyond the age of 18-21, to insure | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
the sort of lifestyle but your children all mine may enjoy can be | :43:09. | :43:17. | |
extended as well to those who are in care. Stay with us. Jonathan | :43:17. | :43:24. | |
Evans, it is something that Ken touched on, the reference to the | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
Waterhouse report. At the time you were a minister in the Wales office, | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
those terms of reference were being drawn up, questions about the | :43:33. | :43:39. | |
suitability of them now. A lot of nonsense has been talked about that | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
by I agree with Ken that in order to deal with that challenge that | :43:44. | :43:51. | |
has been raised, the Prime Minister was right to announce that two | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
inquiries. First a police inquiry in that anyone who has any | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
allegation in relation to child abuse brings that to the attention | :43:59. | :44:04. | |
of the police and that we undertake a detailed inquiry into that. The | :44:04. | :44:10. | |
second part is the judicial review of the terms of the Waterhouse | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
inquiry. I am disappointed that over the last week, in the course | :44:15. | :44:22. | |
of this feeding frenzy, I have seen people call into question the | :44:22. | :44:30. | |
integrity of Lord Waterhouse. The inquiry was a public one. More than | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
200 people who made complaints of abuse were before the inquiry and | :44:34. | :44:40. | |
in fact many of them represented. Steve Messham, and I must say he is | :44:40. | :44:46. | |
the real victim in all of this, no one is in any doubt that he was | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
abused but what is the situation now in which a programme has been | :44:51. | :44:56. | |
broadcast in which it is claiming he has identified this person. The | :44:56. | :45:03. | |
more you look into that, the more concerned there will be. | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
Director General has resigned over the news nice story that you speak | :45:08. | :45:13. | |
about. You were in government with Chris Patten, Crim how waltz, he | :45:13. | :45:19. | |
suspects that he will resign. may see a situation like that but | :45:19. | :45:24. | |
it is premature to be talking about it now. The BBC needs leadership at | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
this time and I observed George Entwistle's performance yesterday, | :45:28. | :45:37. | |
I did but I listened to extracts of it and I think he did the right | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
thing in resigning because there was no bromide in those interviews | :45:42. | :45:52. | |
:45:52. | :45:52. | ||
where he instilled confidence. -- confidence. At the end of the day | :45:52. | :45:57. | |
when we have seen the results of the inquiry into what happened with | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
journalism in this case and that matters in terms of journalism are | :46:02. | :46:08. | |
put in a better front at the BBC, BBC Newsnight, I found over the | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
course of the last week that BBC Wales followed up with drawn | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
dealings, some of the more fanciful things that were being said about | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
his report. That is Canice -- classic journalism. Someone makes | :46:22. | :46:27. | |
an allegation and a journalist checks it out. BBC Wales has shown | :46:27. | :46:33. | |
much more journalism skill and standards than has been the case on | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
Newsnight. This is not an attack on the BBC. It is the fact that the | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
very top programmes, but does appear to be failings. Chris Patten | :46:44. | :46:50. | |
spoke about the need to restore trust in the BBC. Is it that led to | :46:50. | :46:56. | |
suggest the public may have lost trust in the BBC and what is the | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
damage that that could cause? think the opinion polling that has | :47:01. | :47:06. | |
been done about the BBC suggests there has been a damage to trust. | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
That is serious because I am a strong supporter of the BBC as a | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
public broadcaster and his reputation is something all of us | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
all to be concerned about. I have been reflecting on this and I was | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
asking myself why is it I find myself turning to the world's | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
surface of the BBC to hear the news rather than domestic broadcasters | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
and the answer is if you listen to the World Service, you get | :47:33. | :47:38. | |
journalism that reports the News and explains it but does not see | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
itself in the business of trying to make news. They Newsnight programme | :47:43. | :47:48. | |
was a good example of this. You see BBC journalism tipping into wanting | :47:48. | :47:54. | |
to create a news agenda rather than reporting it. In his Knights case | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
there was an investigation and sometimes as a result it does | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
create the news. Is there a danger that those kind of investigations | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
now in the wake of what has happened could be put on the back- | :48:07. | :48:12. | |
burner and we will not seek such important ones being undertaken? | :48:12. | :48:17. | |
There is absolutely a proper role for decent, a genuine investigative | :48:17. | :48:23. | |
journalism, properly carried out, down to the high standards. When | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
that tips into something that haste to try and create a news agenda, or | :48:27. | :48:32. | |
where you stop doing those basic checks and you wind up in the | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
position that Newsnight found itself in. The BBC did not do the | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
investigated journalism here, they outsourced it to the Bureau of | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
investigative journalism and the journalist who reported on it was | :48:46. | :48:51. | |
someone involved with Steve Messham. Hardly was the most independent | :48:51. | :48:56. | |
person. When we have done the inquiry we will find that is | :48:56. | :49:01. | |
probably one of the major flaws but it is not good enough to sate a -- | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
for Newsnight to say we have a few pals here, in this organisation, | :49:07. | :49:17. | |
let's put this as the front piece... The BBC should get back to | :49:17. | :49:22. | |
investigated journalism but do it itself and not a source it took the | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
shadow we organisations. Ken, you covered some of the proceedings of | :49:27. | :49:31. | |
the Waterhouse inquiry. Do you think it does need looking at | :49:31. | :49:36. | |
again? I do believe we need to look at it again and people are | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
demanding it and the only to those victims. With regards to the media | :49:41. | :49:47. | |
I have concerns that some of the most fragile people are being | :49:47. | :49:53. | |
mistreated. We need to be careful with how we deal with those he who | :49:53. | :49:57. | |
were abused. It is incredibly important that we do not just put | :49:57. | :50:03. | |
them in front of a camera and I have real concerns in the | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
environment we live in these days with very aggressive journalistic | :50:06. | :50:12. | |
methods, that people could be very hurt. Journalist need to approach | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
this in a very sensitive and dispassionate way, that is very | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
difficult but it needs to be done if we are to reach the truth of the | :50:21. | :50:26. | |
matter. Jonathan Evans, we know George and was a has resigned. This | :50:26. | :50:32. | |
story has been in the news everywhere for a whole week and | :50:32. | :50:37. | |
repeated across other networks never mind just the BBC. Is there | :50:37. | :50:42. | |
any shoot there? No one comes out of this well. The Prime Minister | :50:42. | :50:49. | |
was right to set up those two inquiries. I Marseilles as well his | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
very firm an angry response to Philip Schofield when he engaged in | :50:54. | :51:04. | |
:51:04. | :51:05. | ||
that stand in front of the cameras, that... No one has applauded the | :51:05. | :51:10. | |
Prime Minister for the way he dealt with that. ITV have twice apologise | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
for the fact that someone might have been able to see the list. | :51:15. | :51:20. | |
They might have ended up in court over it and yet ITV said that as | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
far as they are concerned, the incident is closed. I might have | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
strong reservations about journalistic standards on Newsnight | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
but they are as nothing compared to the arrogance of ITV in saying that | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
they are not prepared to look further at what happened to Philip | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
Schofield behaving in that appalling manner. Can is | :51:44. | :51:50. | |
gesticulating. Just briefly mentioned the Prime Minister. It is | :51:50. | :51:56. | |
essential that all party politics is removed from this. It is too big, | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
important an issue to have party politics coming into it. The real | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
test will be as a consequence of the review into the Waterhouse | :52:05. | :52:11. | |
inquiry whether the prime minister will authorise a Hill's poor start | :52:11. | :52:18. | |
inquiry into abuse in the UK. you. This Thursday is polling day | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
to choose Wales and England's first police and crime commissioners | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
there will be four commissioners in well with the aim of holding the | :52:27. | :52:32. | |
police and chief constables to account. For the last time, the new | :52:32. | :52:36. | |
commissioners will said local crime fighting priorities and control | :52:36. | :52:42. | |
budgets. They will make the police accountable not to run policing. In | :52:42. | :52:49. | |
recent weeks we have featured the Brent, north Wales police forces. | :52:49. | :52:59. | |
:52:59. | :53:06. | ||
This week week go to Dyfed Powys. The Dyfed Powys... A big rural area | :53:06. | :53:12. | |
with a relatively small population of about 500,000. We are | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
consistently lower crime levels and elsewhere, recorded crime fell 1% | :53:16. | :53:23. | |
in the year to June. Its budget is Wales's smallest, �95 million. By | :53:23. | :53:30. | |
2015, cuts of 12 million are needed. 55 Police officer posts are going | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
but there will be 66 additional community support officers. Band D | :53:35. | :53:41. | |
council tax payers pay �198 a year for the police. Just two candidates | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
are standing. It is a head-to-head between the Conservatives and | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
Labour. The Conservative candidate is Christopher Salmon, a former | :53:50. | :53:55. | |
soldier. Crime happens on the streets in our community so that is | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
where we need the police. We need to focus on the areas that are | :53:59. | :54:05. | |
particularly bad to make the most of the resources. We need to | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
protect people and that means tackling crime is that make | :54:08. | :54:15. | |
people's lives difficult. Stan been for Labour is Christine weather, an | :54:15. | :54:22. | |
ex AM and agricultural minister. People will vote for me as an | :54:22. | :54:27. | |
experienced campaigner and I will campaign on their behalf. Someone | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
who listens to what communities need and make things happen for | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
them. Someone who is used to holding large institutions to | :54:34. | :54:41. | |
account. Voting is days away on Thursday 15th November. If you go | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
to our online pages, you can find out more details about candidates | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
for all four of the Welsh police forces. | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
It is not just the police commissioner elections this | :54:52. | :54:58. | |
Thursday. There was also by election. It has been caused by the | :54:58. | :55:01. | |
decision of Alun Michael to stand down so he can run for Police | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
Commissioner. It has been in Labour hands for 30 | :55:05. | :55:09. | |
years and in that time, Cardiff South and Penarth has had only two | :55:10. | :55:17. | |
MPs. Stephen Doughty is the man striving to be its third Labour MP. | :55:18. | :55:24. | |
Labour had a bath of 4,700 votes over the nearest rivals in the last | :55:24. | :55:26. | |
general election but the Conservatives did narrow the gap | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
last time and Cardiff councillor Craig Williams will be trying to | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
make further inroads. Nick Clegg joined the Lib Dem candidate on the | :55:35. | :55:42. | |
campaign trail. The party has targeted parts of this constituency | :55:42. | :55:48. | |
traditionally but the Lib Dem MP candidate task is to improve on its | :55:48. | :55:55. | |
third place last time. Taking a break Plaid Cymru are saying they | :55:55. | :56:01. | |
are taking a break. They claimed they are on the up. There was more | :56:01. | :56:07. | |
information on nine. You will also find details about the UK | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
Independence Party, the Green Party, Socialist Labour and the Communist | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
Party of Great Britain who are also fielding candidates. | :56:15. | :56:25. | |
:56:25. | :56:28. | ||
Time for a look back at some of the The Welsh Government agreed a deal | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
with Plaid Cymru to ensure its budget for the next year is passed | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
with only half the 60 seats in the Chamber, the Labour administration | :56:36. | :56:45. | |
cannot pass a budget alone. Clyde will abstain war of the crucial | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
vote. They have of Minister Les Leigh Griffiths is considering | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
setting tougher targets for the ambulance service to respond to | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
emergencies. She announced the review which will | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
also look at the way the service is one and his relationship with | :56:59. | :57:05. | |
health boards. Under inquiry into the future of | :57:05. | :57:09. | |
dairy farming was opened by MPs on the Welsh Affairs Select Committee | :57:09. | :57:14. | |
as they left London for Aberystwyth. They are looking across Bordeaux | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
World Connectivity. They gathered evidence on this as revealed on a | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
Tweet. The committee a getting first-hand experience on mid-Wales | :57:23. | :57:32. | |
transport problems. We have been delayed in Birmingham. | :57:32. | :57:37. | |
Those politicians delayed in Birmingham, we are glad to see both | :57:37. | :57:43. | |
of ours in the studio. The police commissioners elections - a dare | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
raise major concern about what kind of turnout we will see. I am sure | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
you have been trying to convince people to vote. What are people | :57:52. | :57:58. | |
saying to you? I have been out there knocking on doors, Labour had | :57:58. | :58:01. | |
never wanted these police commissioners but they will be | :58:01. | :58:06. | |
there doing a serious job so we have been trying to persuade people | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
to get out there and vote but the level of understanding about the | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
election on the doorstep is very low indeed. Beware the thought that | :58:14. | :58:19. | |
it was a sensible idea to hold this election in the middle of November | :58:19. | :58:26. | |
really did not read the most basic textbooks of politics. I was | :58:26. | :58:31. | |
looking at the weather forecast and it did look quite nice and crisp | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
this Thursday but on the point that Mark makes, Labour did not want | :58:35. | :58:41. | |
them, he does not think people will vote, what do you think? It does | :58:41. | :58:46. | |
seem a staggering number of my parliamentary colleagues wanted to | :58:46. | :58:51. | |
stand as candidates. My view is we have always had police authorities. | :58:51. | :58:57. | |
People did not realise they had politicians on police authorities. | :58:57. | :59:07. | |
:59:07. | :59:11. | ||
This is to try and engage more people. Let's move on. Both of you | :59:11. | :59:17. | |
will have been this morning to remembrance services. It is | :59:17. | :59:22. | |
Remembrance Sunday. Coming up to the Sentry anniversary of the First | :59:22. | :59:29. | |
World War. A I was in the middle of Cardiff. It was a very sober and | :59:29. | :59:35. | |
dignified occasion. Very well- attended, very many people there. | :59:35. | :59:40. | |
It was a beautiful morning in which the stillness in the centre of | :59:40. | :59:44. | |
Cardiff was striking and the very thought false sense of people | :59:44. | :59:51. | |
reflecting on nearly 100 years. Jonathan, where were you? A I was | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
in north Cardiff and I have to say it is the biggest attendance I can | :59:55. | :00:01. | |
remember. We are not just looking at what happened in the first and | :00:01. | :00:06. |