20/01/2013 Sunday Politics Wales

Later in the programme, with hundreds of thousands of people at

increased risk of developing diabetes, we hear that turning the

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2305 seconds

tide against the disease is a major How law and on at the Sunday

Politics Wales, we hear concerns about the growing problem of

diabetes. And as the Welsh Minister -- as the Welsh Business Minister

sets up a review into whether banks are making it easier for companies

to borrow money, we will hear a Welsh Conservative plan. Joining me

throughout today's programme are the Liberal Democrat, Lord German,

and Labour's Kevin Brennan. Good morning to you both. I wonder when

the weather will improve. We read this morning that relations between

both of your party leaders in Westminster are improving. Ed

Miliband and Nick Clegg appear to be getting on better. Kevin Brennan,

what are the implications of this improvement? I suspect it might be

slightly exaggerated. I have read the article in The Observor. There

is a lot going on in Parliament that means that Labour and the Lib

Dems are working together, including the boundary changes.

Wales was going to lose 25% of its Parliamentary seats, which you

supported us one. It means that Wales could retain 40% if the war

Connett this week. That has meant that we can work together more. --

could retain 40% working on business week. I am sure there will

be plenty of real politics between the two parties. Were you aware

that relations were frosty in the first place? He yes, a lot of anger

and rage. It was like going into an areas box. -- ice Boks. You see a

lot of hatred coming through. It has not been like that in Wales.

What we have had to learn to do is get used to each other more. It is

the product of the boundary review and the change and people

recognising that the next General Election might not be a foregone

conclusion. There is also the sense that being less tribal is so

important in politics. The people out there do not like it much. If

we are constantly angry at each other, it does not give you the

clue to the questions be but are asking and the answers they are

looking for. Is there a sense perhaps that there is pragmatism

here that may be Labour feel, if governing the next time, the Lib

Dems might be needed to help them out? Labour would hope to win an

overall majority. If the people decide something different, you

have to look at that situation. It is difficult, as he said, the Lib

Dems having gone in with the Conservatives. Traditionally, they

are seen as the arch-enemy. That caused some resentment. Nick Clegg

saying he would not work with Gordon Brown caused resentment.

Some people saying we should say the same to the Lib Dems. There is

that residual feeling. But at the end of the day, we will look to win

an overall majority and hope to convince people a Labour Government

is the best solution. We shall leave it there for now. Are banks

lending enough to businesses? The Business Minister, Edwina Hart,

thinks perhaps not and has launched an independent review to establish

whether firms in Wales are getting the support needed. In terms of

what the banks are doing, reporting locally with good work done with

businesses, but when I go out and about, that is not what is said.

People say there is still difficulty getting money. They are

happy we are running various schemes for cash. The reality is it

is quite hard for businesses, not getting the money required. And the

banks simply a refinancing -- refinancing existing lending.

Welsh Conservatives have also been looking at business lending and

will launch their proposals tomorrow. To give a flavour ahead

of them is the party's leader in the Assembly, Andrew RT Davies, in

Cardiff. Thank you for joining us. Good morning. We heard there from

Edwina Hart, launching a review. Plaid Cymru have called for a

national as Bank of Wales. -- nationalised Bank of Wales. What

would you party offer? I have heard about the review and about Plaid

Cymru's proposals. We are launching a document tomorrow. The issue is

about local lending to local businesses. There is a real issue.

All sorts of organisations have identified the decision-making

process and the ability for businesses to access local invites

-- advised. We have pulled various strands together. A major political

party will bring a document out tomorrow that addresses this in a

fully costed way. I know you are party have been working on this for

months. It is a big piece of work. The Government recognises what you

are raising as well, launching a review last week. The Professor

leading that cheers you party's economic Commission. What about the

fact he is doing work for the Government on the same thing?

commend their work. But that is a review. What we are proposing

tomorrow is a ready-made model that has done the groundwork, can be

delivered, by delivering a local lending structure, making Wales

into six different regions, so there are local managers working

with the commercial sector, not replacing it, in partnership so

that decision-making can be taken locally. What we have the ability

is 93% of lending is in the hands of five big banks. It is 13% in

Germany. We have to increase the flow of money into small businesses

and the decision-making and advice that can be given in local

communities. That is what is missing. Many decisions are taken

at either regional levels, such as in Birmingham and Manchester, or a

national level in London or Edinburgh. Are you talking about

Welsh Government banks, shops on the high street? No, it is about

working in partnership with the commercial sector. Walking in the

backs with them? We launched the policy tomorrow and the detail will

be there. -- walking in the banks with them? I have to be careful

about how much the Tuilagi have narrowed. It is not about replacing

the commercial sector, but working in partnership. -- I have to be

careful about how much detail I give up now. Explain what Finance

Bills is? It is the Welsh Government's finance vehicle, set

up in 2000, to lend to businesses in Wales that would have normal

credit Brits turn down. Many businesses have not heard of it. We

need to localised lending and the support that bank managers can give.

We want to work in partnership with the commercial sector, not in

competition, and this will show that with case studies and the way

we believe this model can be taken forward. It is the first time a

major party in the United Kingdom has come forward with such a

document. You say you would work with the commercial sector. The

senses the commercial sector are not lending to businesses, so that

is not working, but if the Welsh Government are in the banks with

them, they are still not going to lend because you will. It is about

element of risk. Businesses out there may be do not have an

established track record on a business model that does not fall

into the lending decisions that the commercial sector have decided to

go with. If you look at Germany or Sweden, where the banking structure

is very different, 13% of major decisions are only taking by high-

street banks and a lot of decisions taken by local regional banking. In

North America, you have a strong support network for working up a

business proposal. And taking a chance on an entrepreneur's

decision ought idea, so we can create more business opportunities.

Everyone recognises that the private sector in Wales is not big

enough and finance is a key component about allowing it to grow.

That can complement the economy. Andrew RT Davies, thank you for

your time and beat expect more detail on that pro -- on that

promotes all -- we expect more detail on that proposal tomorrow.

Working closely with the banks there. Is that a good idea? I never

forgot that after the 12 years of 13 years of the National Assembly

that I would say good ideas are coming back again. We set up in

2000 Finance Bills to do precisely that job of being able to lend to

businesses around Wales. I introduced the scheme at the time.

It is a great idea. There is or was a chance to revitalise it. It is

what is needed. To get the money flowing to company. -- two

companies. It needs a stick of dynamite, behind the whole notion

to get it working. And this not just a Welsh issue. Vince Cable

announced a similar review to that which Edwina Hart has called for.

It is not a Welsh problem. It suggests that it is quite tricky.

It is very tricky. We are talking about a banking sector here which

basically be scaled after the deregulation of the 1980s. -- which

basically a reduced skills. Anyone talented, anyone wanting to do well

in the banking sector, understandably went down the

investment banking route, where the fast but was there to be made. And

we are paying the price for that. - - where the fast money was there to

be made. People used to know how to lend to small and medium-sized

businesses. Now you get small businesses going to the banks, were

they are considered for loans, and making it harder for those

businesses to borrow. It is right on at the heart -- or Edwina Hart

to do this. She is right to have a former Conservative candidate as

well. It is a bit odd that Andrew Davis is waving his little blue

book to us when his colleague is doing the review for the Government.

Hopefully we can get the best ideas together to try and at least

cracked some of the problem here in Wales. It is a big structural

problem in the banking sector. Consensus politics was the way the

Assembly was described in 1999 and it seems Plaid Cymru are putting

forward a similar idea. You touched on what Edwina Hart is doing. And

now the Conservatives. Everyone agrees this is a problem? I suspect

the Government will want to look at all ideas coming forward as part of

this review in order to strengthen as much as possible within Wales

what can be done to strengthen lending to small and medium-sized

businesses. You touch earlier on the launch of finance Wales, the

exact kind of thing. It was a grand we got by using some of the

European money better. But it did not work? It did work. It works for

a while, because it was abolished, that scheme was abolished after

2003. There is every need to go back to those fundamentals. Make

finance Wales were properly on behalf of the people for the

businesses of Wales. -- work properly. People need loans as well

as grants. There is a whole mechanism which has to be opened up.

The balance of risk that can be shared between the banks and the

company's can help to give that bit of impetus to lending in Wales. We

have the advantage of European money, which is what finance Wales

should roll in as well. All of that together should give Wales and

economic advantage in lending in the way that other parts of the UK

cannot have. We shall leave it there.

A leading charity is warning the Welsh NHS could be overwhelmed by a

disease which deprives people of their eyesight, causes strokes,

kidney failure and premature death. Diabetes UK Cymru has told this

programme that, with hundreds of thousands of people have won high

blood cloakrooms levels -- having high blood glucose levels, and a

much increased risk of developing the disorder, turning the tide is a

major test for devolution. Being overweight and a lack of exercise

is the usual cause. In the past week, we have had the

first clips of how the health board's plan to reshape health

services. They have to shore often angry communities they are doing

the right thing. But there is a disease threatening to spiral out

of control. Diabetes. Eirian Jones from Carmarthen show was diagnosed

with Type 2 diabetes two years ago after a routine blood test. I have

been quite fortunate that I was diagnosed early on. But if you

imagine somebody walking around, maybe for ten years, having the

disease and not knowing. By the time it is discovered, the damage

is done. In just the past two years, the number of people such as Eirian

being diagnosed with diabetes in Wales has risen by 9.4% to 167,000.

It is estimated that figure will rise between now and 2025 to more

than a quarter of a million and research and analysis by Diabetes

UK Cymru estimates that there are 66,000 of us who have diabetes but

do not know it. We have 350,000 people with what is called diabetes

-- what is called the diabetes. It is costing the NHS half-a- billion

pounds a year. We should be very worried. Dai Williams from Diabetes

UK Cymru says turning around the diabetes epidemic is a key test for

devolution. Politicians are there to represent the population and

their well-being. Diabetes is threatening that well-being. They

have a plan to deal with it. It is for the Executive to implement that

plan. It is a big problem for Government to implement these

plants. It is not enough to have one and put it on the shelf. It has

to be implemented. There are also concerns about the lack of medical

staff to treat and crucially educate patients about diabetes.

do feel that there is insufficient resources put into the role of

specialist practitioners. Clinicians across the board. But I

would say about nursing staff. There are insufficient specialist

nurses in Wales trained in the care of diabetes to deal with this, with

the numbers of population suffering. The Assembly's Health Committee is

holding an inquiry into diabetes services as ministers consult on a

new action plan. The Welsh Government told Sunday Politics it

aims to have diabetes incident rates and health care outcomes

comparable to the best in Europe. It expects the action plan to be in

place by June. Sustained efforts to spot and treat diabetes better

might be much lower profile than the big structural changes taking

place in NHS Wales. But campaigners and medics warned that, without

major improvements, the condition poses a very real threat to the

future of the service and hundreds of thousands of lives.

Kevin Brennan, a few issues here, the obvious health concern that

possibly, in just over ten years, one in the 12 of us would have

diabetes. But also the figure that it costs �0.5 billion a year to

treat diabetes related incidents at a time when the NHS is struggling

to keep up with what it has to pay for now. Indeed. In the case of

Type 2 diabetes, it has been on the rise and is related to modern

lifestyles and being sedentary. As we are now. And obesity and so on.

It is something that needs to be dealt with in a public health side

as well as treatment. Wales is well placed. I am glad that the Health

Committee is leading an inquiry into it from the Health Committee

in the Assembly. My colleague next met has been working on this in the

House of Commons. -- my colleague has been working on this. It is

looking at issues of obesity and looking at community-based services

to help people with diabetes. The consequences can be horrendous,

including blindness, amputations. And with good proper humanity based

care, you can alleviate a lot of problems and save money you would

otherwise have to spend. Kevin mentioned about how we treat people

who have this, or the ways of doing it. There was quite a stark warning

from the Royal College of Nursing that there are not enough nurses

would specialism to work in this field. There is extra money

announced or training in the past week, not specifically for diabetes,

but that is very concerning? think it is of great concern. In

2002, there was a national service framework in place for diabetes in

Wales. The problem is getting worse. We know that more and more people

are getting up because of the modern lifestyle. But also Type 1

Diabetes is increasing, which is about a lack of insulin in your

body. There is the need for someone to get a grip on the whole thing.

The original document... Who is that person? Somebody who can bring

together community needs to get community medicine up and running

with it. To be able to spot it and er identify it and getting early.

Belly knowledge about the problem will certainly help. -- Early

knowledge. It is best to treated at the very earlier stages. It is a

multi-faceted problem and we need to get a grip on it in a way that

meets some central co-ordination. So that it can be brought out to

everyone. This is a problem which will affect many of us. We shall

leave it there for now. We now have time for a quick look back at some

of the political stories of the week in 60 seconds.

The Welsh Government will fund a shortfall in the budget for council

tax benefits, having previously said no funds were available.

Thousands of households now will not lose out financially. On the

150th anniversary of Lloyd George's death, it is said the basic rate of

income tax should be reduced if Wales has tax-paying powers. After

40 years in politics, Jonathan Evans said he will not stand for

election in 2015. Plans for big changes to the NHS across Wales

dominated party leader exchanges at First Minister's Questions. It

digital services in North East Wales were described as shambolic,

because many viewers still need a set-top box to watch BBC One Wales.

And the Swansea MP invited a concert in the city next year to

mark the centenary of Dylan Thomas's birth. He is hoping their

invitation will not go blowing in the wind.

Let us start with Bob Dylan. You have been to see him twice, would

you see him again? I wish him in his luck to get him there.

Apparently, he got the inspiration for Dylan Thomas to take on his new

name. I was going to touch and the fact we have two musicians. You

play the piano, would you consider joining on one night only? I think

my style of music is slightly different. We have a composer in

residence in Parliament and perhaps we could bring together some music

that brings together the different styles. Two more serious political

issues. Some people describing it as a U-turn for the Government,

saying they had found the money to cover a black hole to pay council

tax benefits to people. Almost a quarter of a million would not have

to pay it next year. What you think about that? It has been a shambolic

process to get towards what is a sensible solution. I applaud the

solution, but parents of many children have been receiving

letters saying they would have to pay more money. And it could be

this amount of money and now they will not have to do it. It is the

right solution, but has been a night near the way the Welsh

Government has approached it. you had had people coming to

surgeries worried they would have to pay it, only to find out they do

not? I should point out the reason of this Government is in this

position is your colleagues in Parliament voted through this

change. That leaves the Welsh Government having to make an almost

impossible choice about how to cover its budget with the changes

the Government have made and when spinster in relation to council-tax

benefit. -- made in Westminster. I am glad the Government has looked

at the terrible social impact that is coming her mac Wake and is